Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-22 Thread John Rock
Matt,
I have pictures to show you...
Believe it or not?

John Rock
Director of Operations - Senior Engineer
Wireless Connections
166 Milan Ave., Norwalk, Oh. 44857 
ACCessing the Future Today!!
ofc. 419.660.6100
cell 419-706-7356
fax  419-668-4077
http://www.wirelessconnections.net
This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential
and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. If
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, copying
or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. If
you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 3:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


On Mar 19, 2009, at 3:18 PM, Chuck Bartosch wrote:

 However, that (obviously) means it's not particularly viable in many
 situations where you don't see enough customers to support a wimax
 base station. But because 3.65 with diversity is supposed to deliver
 NLOS performance similar to or better than 900 MHz, you can see
 customers you wouldn't otherwise see.

I can tell you for a fact that even with uplink subchannelization,  
diversity, and all of WiMAX's OFDM subcarriers, 3.65 does not deliver  
NLOS performance similar to or better than 900Mhz. Throw all the  
technology you want at it and 3.65 is still not going to get through  
much foliage. NLOS performance in an urban environment on the other  
hand is great.

-Matt





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-22 Thread Travis Johnson




Hi,

We have BridgeMaxx in our area. They are using 2.5ghz licensed with
Alvarion WiMax equipment. This is the "top of the line", $50k per
sector type stuff. Then I can also tell you that we are seeing a LOT of
antennas that have to be mounted outdoors, on a tripod with a 10ft pole
to get over the trees. The NLOS doesn't seem to be working very well,
especially on several of these the tower is less than a mile away.

So they spent $250k per tower x 4 towers in our area and they are still
having to roll a truck and do an outdoor install. And this is even with
2.5ghz licensed. It makes me happy to see one of their antennas mounted
outdoors... that's means they lost even more money for that install...
:)

Travis
Microserv

John Rock wrote:

  Matt,
I have pictures to show you...
Believe it or not?

John Rock
Director of Operations - Senior Engineer
Wireless Connections
166 Milan Ave., Norwalk, Oh. 44857 
ACCessing the Future Today!!
ofc. 419.660.6100
cell 419-706-7356
fax 419-668-4077
http://www.wirelessconnections.net
This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential
and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. If
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, copying
or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. If
you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 3:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


On Mar 19, 2009, at 3:18 PM, Chuck Bartosch wrote:

  
  
However, that (obviously) means it's not particularly viable in many
situations where you don't see enough customers to support a wimax
base station. But because 3.65 with diversity is supposed to deliver
NLOS performance similar to or better than 900 MHz, you can see
customers you wouldn't otherwise see.


  
  I can tell you for a fact that even with uplink subchannelization,  
diversity, and all of WiMAX's OFDM subcarriers, 3.65 does not deliver  
NLOS performance similar to or better than 900Mhz. Throw all the  
technology you want at it and 3.65 is still not going to get through  
much foliage. NLOS performance in an urban environment on the other  
hand is great.

-Matt





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


  






WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-22 Thread John Rock
Hmmm

4 sector 2.5 Ghz system

1,000,000 deployment

4000 users paying you $74.99 for Voip and Data from your deployment

It all works

Priceless

Do the math

 

 

John Rock
Director of Operations - Senior Engineer

Wireless Connections
166 Milan Ave., Norwalk, Oh. 44857 
ACCessing the Future Today!!
ofc. 419.660.6100

cell 419-706-7356
fax  419-668-4077
 http://www.wirelessconnections.net/ http://www.wirelessconnections.net

This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential
and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. If
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, copying
or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. If
you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 7:44 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 

Hi,

We have BridgeMaxx in our area. They are using 2.5ghz licensed with Alvarion
WiMax equipment. This is the top of the line, $50k per sector type stuff.
Then I can also tell you that we are seeing a LOT of antennas that have to
be mounted outdoors, on a tripod with a 10ft pole to get over the trees. The
NLOS doesn't seem to be working very well, especially on several of these
the tower is less than a mile away.

So they spent $250k per tower x 4 towers in our area and they are still
having to roll a truck and do an outdoor install. And this is even with
2.5ghz licensed. It makes me happy to see one of their antennas mounted
outdoors... that's means they lost even more money for that install... :)

Travis
Microserv

John Rock wrote: 

Matt,
I have pictures to show you...
Believe it or not?
 
John Rock
Director of Operations - Senior Engineer
Wireless Connections
166 Milan Ave., Norwalk, Oh. 44857 
ACCessing the Future Today!!
ofc. 419.660.6100
cell 419-706-7356
fax  419-668-4077
http://www.wirelessconnections.net
This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential
and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. If
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, copying
or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. If
you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.
 
 
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 3:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
 
 
On Mar 19, 2009, at 3:18 PM, Chuck Bartosch wrote:
 
  

However, that (obviously) means it's not particularly viable in many
situations where you don't see enough customers to support a wimax
base station. But because 3.65 with diversity is supposed to deliver
NLOS performance similar to or better than 900 MHz, you can see
customers you wouldn't otherwise see.
 


I can tell you for a fact that even with uplink subchannelization,  
diversity, and all of WiMAX's OFDM subcarriers, 3.65 does not deliver  
NLOS performance similar to or better than 900Mhz. Throw all the  
technology you want at it and 3.65 is still not going to get through  
much foliage. NLOS performance in an urban environment on the other  
hand is great.
 
-Matt
 
 
 


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
  



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-22 Thread Travis Johnson
Plus the cost of the 2.5ghz license in our area... which I heard they 
paid like $7,000,000 for (in an area with 50,000 population)... plus the 
licensed backhauls (Ceragon 18ghz in a ring), plus tower rent (they are 
on the most expensive towers in town).

No wonder they are blowing through investor money faster than they can 
get it... LOL

Travis


John Rock wrote:
 Hmmm

 4 sector 2.5 Ghz system

 1,000,000 deployment

 4000 users paying you $74.99 for Voip and Data from your deployment

 It all works

 Priceless

 Do the math

  

  

 John Rock
 Director of Operations - Senior Engineer

 Wireless Connections
 166 Milan Ave., Norwalk, Oh. 44857 
 ACCessing the Future Today!!
 ofc. 419.660.6100

 cell 419-706-7356
 fax  419-668-4077
  http://www.wirelessconnections.net/ http://www.wirelessconnections.net

 This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential
 and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. If
 you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
 disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, copying
 or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. If
 you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
 reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.

  

 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Travis Johnson
 Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 7:44 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

  

 Hi,

 We have BridgeMaxx in our area. They are using 2.5ghz licensed with Alvarion
 WiMax equipment. This is the top of the line, $50k per sector type stuff.
 Then I can also tell you that we are seeing a LOT of antennas that have to
 be mounted outdoors, on a tripod with a 10ft pole to get over the trees. The
 NLOS doesn't seem to be working very well, especially on several of these
 the tower is less than a mile away.

 So they spent $250k per tower x 4 towers in our area and they are still
 having to roll a truck and do an outdoor install. And this is even with
 2.5ghz licensed. It makes me happy to see one of their antennas mounted
 outdoors... that's means they lost even more money for that install... :)

 Travis
 Microserv

 John Rock wrote: 

 Matt,
 I have pictures to show you...
 Believe it or not?
  
 John Rock
 Director of Operations - Senior Engineer
 Wireless Connections
 166 Milan Ave., Norwalk, Oh. 44857 
 ACCessing the Future Today!!
 ofc. 419.660.6100
 cell 419-706-7356
 fax  419-668-4077
 http://www.wirelessconnections.net
 This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential
 and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. If
 you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
 disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, copying
 or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. If
 you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
 reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.
  
  
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Matt Liotta
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 3:29 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
  
  
 On Mar 19, 2009, at 3:18 PM, Chuck Bartosch wrote:
  
   

 However, that (obviously) means it's not particularly viable in many
 situations where you don't see enough customers to support a wimax
 base station. But because 3.65 with diversity is supposed to deliver
 NLOS performance similar to or better than 900 MHz, you can see
 customers you wouldn't otherwise see.
  
 

 I can tell you for a fact that even with uplink subchannelization,  
 diversity, and all of WiMAX's OFDM subcarriers, 3.65 does not deliver  
 NLOS performance similar to or better than 900Mhz. Throw all the  
 technology you want at it and 3.65 is still not going to get through  
 much foliage. NLOS performance in an urban environment on the other  
 hand is great.
  
 -Matt
  
  
  
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
  
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
  
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
  
  
  
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
  
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
  
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-22 Thread John Scrivner
I do not care to see people trashing each other's business models
whether they are cash poor, cash rich or someplace in the middle. I am
actually glad to see some data on this particular model because I
think it actually could work well with $3.6M in yearly revenues. I
think it is impressive. I wish we could all gain access to some of
this spectrum, big cash, licensed WiMax gear and build it out. That
does not mean I think it is the only model nor do I trash the
occasional cash strapped guy building his first Wi-Fi POP with his
VISA card nor the typical WISP operator who took out a second mortgage
or similar pound of flesh financing to launch his first few towers
using unlicensed. God bless all of them.  I think we should all try to
respect that each of us have a different approach. I certainly do not
pretend to think I have all the answers and I appreciate those who
share what they do to make their model work. I sense some sour grapes
here due to this network being built in your territory. If you think
it is a poor model then steal all their customers and teach them a
lesson. Tell us how you did please. That would tell a far more
compelling story than just trashing their model on the list.
Scriv


On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote:
 Plus the cost of the 2.5ghz license in our area... which I heard they
 paid like $7,000,000 for (in an area with 50,000 population)... plus the
 licensed backhauls (Ceragon 18ghz in a ring), plus tower rent (they are
 on the most expensive towers in town).

 No wonder they are blowing through investor money faster than they can
 get it... LOL

 Travis


 John Rock wrote:
 Hmmm

 4 sector 2.5 Ghz system

 1,000,000 deployment

 4000 users paying you $74.99 for Voip and Data from your deployment

 It all works

 Priceless

 Do the math





 John Rock
 Director of Operations - Senior Engineer

 Wireless Connections
 166 Milan Ave., Norwalk, Oh. 44857
 ACCessing the Future Today!!
 ofc. 419.660.6100

 cell 419-706-7356
 fax  419-668-4077
  http://www.wirelessconnections.net/ http://www.wirelessconnections.net

 This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential
 and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. If
 you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
 disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, copying
 or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. If
 you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
 reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.



 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Travis Johnson
 Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 7:44 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Hi,

 We have BridgeMaxx in our area. They are using 2.5ghz licensed with Alvarion
 WiMax equipment. This is the top of the line, $50k per sector type stuff.
 Then I can also tell you that we are seeing a LOT of antennas that have to
 be mounted outdoors, on a tripod with a 10ft pole to get over the trees. The
 NLOS doesn't seem to be working very well, especially on several of these
 the tower is less than a mile away.

 So they spent $250k per tower x 4 towers in our area and they are still
 having to roll a truck and do an outdoor install. And this is even with
 2.5ghz licensed. It makes me happy to see one of their antennas mounted
 outdoors... that's means they lost even more money for that install... :)

 Travis
 Microserv

 John Rock wrote:

 Matt,
 I have pictures to show you...
 Believe it or not?

 John Rock
 Director of Operations - Senior Engineer
 Wireless Connections
 166 Milan Ave., Norwalk, Oh. 44857
 ACCessing the Future Today!!
 ofc. 419.660.6100
 cell 419-706-7356
 fax  419-668-4077
 http://www.wirelessconnections.net
 This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential
 and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. If
 you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
 disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, copying
 or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. If
 you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
 reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Matt Liotta
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 3:29 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 On Mar 19, 2009, at 3:18 PM, Chuck Bartosch wrote:



 However, that (obviously) means it's not particularly viable in many
 situations where you don't see enough customers to support a wimax
 base station. But because 3.65 with diversity is supposed to deliver
 NLOS performance similar to or better than 900 MHz, you can see
 customers you wouldn't otherwise see.



 I can tell you

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-22 Thread Travis Johnson
nd/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. If
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, copying
or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. If
you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.



From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 7:44 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



Hi,

We have BridgeMaxx in our area. They are using 2.5ghz licensed with Alvarion
WiMax equipment. This is the "top of the line", $50k per sector type stuff.
Then I can also tell you that we are seeing a LOT of antennas that have to
be mounted outdoors, on a tripod with a 10ft pole to get over the trees. The
NLOS doesn't seem to be working very well, especially on several of these
the tower is less than a mile away.

So they spent $250k per tower x 4 towers in our area and they are still
having to roll a truck and do an outdoor install. And this is even with
2.5ghz licensed. It makes me happy to see one of their antennas mounted
outdoors... that's means they lost even more money for that install... :)

Travis
Microserv

John Rock wrote:

Matt,
I have pictures to show you...
Believe it or not?

John Rock
Director of Operations - Senior Engineer
Wireless Connections
166 Milan Ave., Norwalk, Oh. 44857
ACCessing the Future Today!!
ofc. 419.660.6100
cell 419-706-7356
fax 419-668-4077
http://www.wirelessconnections.net
This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential
and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. If
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, copying
or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. If
you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 3:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


On Mar 19, 2009, at 3:18 PM, Chuck Bartosch wrote:



However, that (obviously) means it's not particularly viable in many
situations where you don't see enough customers to support a wimax
base station. But because 3.65 with diversity is supposed to deliver
NLOS performance similar to or better than 900 MHz, you can see
customers you wouldn't otherwise see.



I can tell you for a fact that even with uplink subchannelization,
diversity, and all of WiMAX's OFDM subcarriers, 3.65 does not deliver
NLOS performance similar to or better than 900Mhz. Throw all the
technology you want at it and 3.65 is still not going to get through
much foliage. NLOS performance in an urban environment on the other
hand is great.

-Matt





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



  



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


  
  


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.or

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-22 Thread John Scrivner
 on this particular model because I
 think it actually could work well with $3.6M in yearly revenues. I
 think it is impressive. I wish we could all gain access to some of
 this spectrum, big cash, licensed WiMax gear and build it out. That
 does not mean I think it is the only model nor do I trash the
 occasional cash strapped guy building his first Wi-Fi POP with his
 VISA card nor the typical WISP operator who took out a second mortgage
 or similar pound of flesh financing to launch his first few towers
 using unlicensed. God bless all of them.  I think we should all try to
 respect that each of us have a different approach. I certainly do not
 pretend to think I have all the answers and I appreciate those who
 share what they do to make their model work. I sense some sour grapes
 here due to this network being built in your territory. If you think
 it is a poor model then steal all their customers and teach them a
 lesson. Tell us how you did please. That would tell a far more
 compelling story than just trashing their model on the list.
 Scriv


 On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote:


 Plus the cost of the 2.5ghz license in our area... which I heard they
 paid like $7,000,000 for (in an area with 50,000 population)... plus the
 licensed backhauls (Ceragon 18ghz in a ring), plus tower rent (they are
 on the most expensive towers in town).

 No wonder they are blowing through investor money faster than they can
 get it... LOL

 Travis


 John Rock wrote:


 Hmmm

 4 sector 2.5 Ghz system

 1,000,000 deployment

 4000 users paying you $74.99 for Voip and Data from your deployment

 It all works

 Priceless

 Do the math





 John Rock
 Director of Operations - Senior Engineer

 Wireless Connections
 166 Milan Ave., Norwalk, Oh. 44857
 ACCessing the Future Today!!
 ofc. 419.660.6100

 cell 419-706-7356
 fax  419-668-4077
  http://www.wirelessconnections.net/ http://www.wirelessconnections.net

 This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential
 and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. If
 you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
 disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, copying
 or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. If
 you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
 reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.



 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Travis Johnson
 Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 7:44 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Hi,

 We have BridgeMaxx in our area. They are using 2.5ghz licensed with Alvarion
 WiMax equipment. This is the top of the line, $50k per sector type stuff.
 Then I can also tell you that we are seeing a LOT of antennas that have to
 be mounted outdoors, on a tripod with a 10ft pole to get over the trees. The
 NLOS doesn't seem to be working very well, especially on several of these
 the tower is less than a mile away.

 So they spent $250k per tower x 4 towers in our area and they are still
 having to roll a truck and do an outdoor install. And this is even with
 2.5ghz licensed. It makes me happy to see one of their antennas mounted
 outdoors... that's means they lost even more money for that install... :)

 Travis
 Microserv

 John Rock wrote:

 Matt,
 I have pictures to show you...
 Believe it or not?

 John Rock
 Director of Operations - Senior Engineer
 Wireless Connections
 166 Milan Ave., Norwalk, Oh. 44857
 ACCessing the Future Today!!
 ofc. 419.660.6100
 cell 419-706-7356
 fax  419-668-4077
 http://www.wirelessconnections.net
 This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential
 and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. If
 you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
 disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, copying
 or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. If
 you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
 reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Matt Liotta
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 3:29 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 On Mar 19, 2009, at 3:18 PM, Chuck Bartosch wrote:



 However, that (obviously) means it's not particularly viable in many
 situations where you don't see enough customers to support a wimax
 base station. But because 3.65 with diversity is supposed to deliver
 NLOS performance similar to or better than 900 MHz, you can see
 customers you wouldn't otherwise see.



 I can tell you for a fact that even with uplink subchannelization,
 diversity, and all of WiMAX's OFDM subcarriers, 3.65 does not deliver
 NLOS performance similar

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-22 Thread Blair Davis
or, cash rich or someplace in the middle. I am
actually glad to see some data on this particular model because I
think it actually could work well with $3.6M in yearly revenues. I
think it is impressive. I wish we could all gain access to some of
this spectrum, big cash, licensed WiMax gear and build it out. That
does not mean I think it is the only model nor do I trash the
occasional cash strapped guy building his first Wi-Fi POP with his
VISA card nor the typical WISP operator who took out a second mortgage
or similar "pound of flesh" financing to launch his first few towers
using unlicensed. God bless all of them.  I think we should all try to
respect that each of us have a different approach. I certainly do not
pretend to think I have all the answers and I appreciate those who
share what they do to make their model work. I sense some sour grapes
here due to this network being built in your territory. If you think
it is a poor model then steal all their customers and teach them a
lesson. Tell us how you did please. That would tell a far more
compelling story than just trashing their model on the list.
Scriv


On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote:


Plus the cost of the 2.5ghz license in our area... which I heard they
paid like $7,000,000 for (in an area with 50,000 population)... plus the
licensed backhauls (Ceragon 18ghz in a ring), plus tower rent (they are
on the most expensive towers in town).

No wonder they are blowing through investor money faster than they can
get it... LOL

Travis


John Rock wrote:


Hmmm

4 sector 2.5 Ghz system

1,000,000 deployment

4000 users paying you $74.99 for Voip and Data from your deployment

It all works

Priceless

Do the math





John Rock
Director of Operations - Senior Engineer

Wireless Connections
166 Milan Ave., Norwalk, Oh. 44857
ACCessing the Future Today!!
ofc. 419.660.6100

cell 419-706-7356
fax 419-668-4077
http://www.wirelessconnections.net/ http://www.wirelessconnections.net

This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential
and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. If
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, copying
or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. If
you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.



From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 7:44 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



Hi,

We have BridgeMaxx in our area. They are using 2.5ghz licensed with Alvarion
WiMax equipment. This is the "top of the line", $50k per sector type stuff.
Then I can also tell you that we are seeing a LOT of antennas that have to
be mounted outdoors, on a tripod with a 10ft pole to get over the trees. The
NLOS doesn't seem to be working very well, especially on several of these
the tower is less than a mile away.

So they spent $250k per tower x 4 towers in our area and they are still
having to roll a truck and do an outdoor install. And this is even with
2.5ghz licensed. It makes me happy to see one of their antennas mounted
outdoors... that's means they lost even more money for that install... :)

Travis
Microserv

John Rock wrote:

Matt,
I have pictures to show you...
Believe it or not?

John Rock
Director of Operations - Senior Engineer
Wireless Connections
166 Milan Ave., Norwalk, Oh. 44857
ACCessing the Future Today!!
ofc. 419.660.6100
cell 419-706-7356
fax 419-668-4077
http://www.wirelessconnections.net
This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential
and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. If
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, copying
or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. If
you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 3:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


On Mar 19, 2009, at 3:18 PM, Chuck Bartosch wrote:



However, that (obviously) means it's not particularly viable in many
situations where you don't see enough customers to support a wimax
base station. But because 3.65 with diversity is supposed to deliver
NLOS performance similar to or better than 900 MHz, you can see
customers you wouldn't otherwise see.



I can tell you for a fact that even with uplink subchannelization,
diversity, and all of WiMAX's OFDM subcarriers, 3.65 does not deliver
NLOS performance similar to 

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-21 Thread Mike Hammett
Once your users figure out they can watch their favorite shows or movies 
online, your tune will change.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com




From: Travis Johnson 
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:45 PM
To: WISPA General List 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


Because I can service where NONE of those other services exist... and I have 
for 10+ years.

Residential users don't need more than 1-2Mbps. Our 512k package is FASTER than 
the 3Mbps CableOne service in our area (as tested by ZD Lab's benchmark 
program). 

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote: 
2 megs is yesterday's news.

U-Verse is 18/1.5
FiOS is 50/20
Charter has 60/5
Comcast has 50/10

2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k.  Charter is 30 times faster than that.

Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

  We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds
of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and
some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps
downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per
sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market.

The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in
wireless networking.

Best Regards,
Kevin

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
WiMAX
AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
station,
that only supports 30 subscribers.

-

Jeff


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
  On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
marlon

- Original Message -
From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


  Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
the
UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

Take care leon

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
I'm looking into this too.

So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
that tower

Anyone have any better ideas?
marlon

- Original Message -
From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
  General
List
wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



  Fellow operators:

Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

Any updates on experiences with:

Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
Airspan ???


Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/




WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/









  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/




  WISPA Wireless List

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-21 Thread Mike Hammett
20 MHz works now, why wouldn't it work later?  Because the international 
markets where WiMAX was designed for don't have that sort of capacity.

10 MHz doesn't add that much distance over 20 MHz in other systems.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 5:11 PM
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I think it was clarified earlier that with a wider channel you get a much
 greater reduction in effective range as well as increasing the required 
 CINR
 to achieve maximum modulation. So while it could be made ( and I know of 
 one
 company that did make a 20mhz channel wide wimax D product ) the 
 question
 is the logic of making it. Now with 802.16e, you can see more throughput,
 but its in the downlink, not the uplink. Bottom line is- No one is going 
 to
 make a 40mhz wimax product, because its going to work @ peak modulation 
 for
 like, maybe a mile or 2?

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:09 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 If I don't expect it, why will the manufacturers make it?

 They seem to be happy to court the guy offering 1 megabit out of a $8k 
 radio
 when anything made in the past 8 years could do the same thing.

 Do I expect to take Joe mainstream away from Comcast?  No.  Do I want to 
 be
 seen as the dialup to their superhighway?  Definitely not.

 I plan to switch to usage based billing, but I also want a system that 
 will
 supply the demand.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net
 Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:01 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Well the Canopy 430 series is going to do 42Mbps... but even then how 
 well
 is that going to work... considering your clients are going to have to be
 within 2 miles.

 I don't think you should have a realistic expectation that wireless (in a
 point to multipoint environment) is going to match the next generation
 demand.  You can pray and hope... but I think in many ways the laws of
 physics are going to prevent wireless from competing with DSL/Cable... 
 and
 god forbid, FTTH.

 Anyways... as has also been mentioned on this list... I'd expect in 5
 years
 most service providers are going to charge by usage... so stream that 5mb
 movie all you want for three hours... but you're going to pay me for it.

 Daniel White
 3-dB Networks
 http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:56 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

Others on the list have mentioned the exponential increase in video use.
Those are multi megabit streams ran for hours on end.  I believe someone
reported that NetFlix peaked at 5 megabits.  Why would I deploy gear
that
couldn't handle these next generation services?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:13 PM
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Because speed isn't everything.

 Mesa went head to head with Cable and DSL for a long time... offering
 packages of 7Mb this or that.  Our highest package was 2.5Mb/1Mb.  Yet
we
 still did a very respectful job, because we offered the best customer
 service around, and people liked using a local company.

 I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home?  I
 have
 a 15Mb Business Class Comcast connection at home... it burst to 30Mb.
Yet
 it doesn't feel any faster than a 2Mb connection to me.

 Now if I'm downloading files... :-)

 Daniel White
 3-dB Networks
 http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 11:58 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2 megs is yesterday's news.

U-Verse is 18/1.5
FiOS is 50/20
Charter has 60/5
Comcast has 50/10

2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k.  Charter is 30 times faster than
that.

Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired
world?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-21 Thread Mike Hammett
I'm not asking for a wireless solution that does 60 megs to each customer, 
but I am asking for one that does more than the 2 vendors and other WISPs 
want.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 9:53 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 How do you want to count that Mike?

 Speed alone isn't adequate.  If speed alone made a good purchase we'd all 
 be
 driving ZR1 corvettes and Rouch Mustangs etc.

 Figure in cost per subscriber.

 Compute what people REALLY do with their internet not just how fast they 
 can
 do it etc.

 Wireless is the PERFECT technology for a lot of customers.

 And don't keep shooting yourself in the foot.  FIOS is also no good 
 because
 you and I won't ever be able to install enough of it to make the kind of
 living that wireless can give us.

 If it were for wired solutions only none of us would have the phone 
 services
 we have now (good landline and cell phone).  Many would also not have fast
 internet connections.

 Don't go getting tunnel vision.

 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:57 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


2 megs is yesterday's news.

 U-Verse is 18/1.5
 FiOS is 50/20
 Charter has 60/5
 Comcast has 50/10

 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k.  Charter is 30 times faster than 
 that.

 Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired
 world?




 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
 Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds
 of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and
 some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps
 downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per
 sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market.

 The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in
 wireless networking.

 Best Regards,
 Kevin

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX
 AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
 General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-21 Thread Jack Unger
Once you figure out that physics is physics and that license-free 
wireless frequencies will NEVER support fiber speeds no matter how much 
you DEMAND from manufacturers then your tune will change...

Mike Hammett wrote:
 Once your users figure out they can watch their favorite shows or movies 
 online, your tune will change.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com




 From: Travis Johnson 
 Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:45 PM
 To: WISPA General List 
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Because I can service where NONE of those other services exist... and I have 
 for 10+ years.

 Residential users don't need more than 1-2Mbps. Our 512k package is FASTER 
 than the 3Mbps CableOne service in our area (as tested by ZD Lab's benchmark 
 program). 

 Travis
 Microserv

 Mike Hammett wrote: 
 2 megs is yesterday's news.

 U-Verse is 18/1.5
 FiOS is 50/20
 Charter has 60/5
 Comcast has 50/10

 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k.  Charter is 30 times faster than that.

 Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world?




 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
 Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

   We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds
 of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and
 some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps
 downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per
 sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market.

 The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in
 wireless networking.

 Best Regards,
 Kevin

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX
 AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
   On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


   Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
   General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



   Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-21 Thread Jack Unger
Once you figure out that physics is physics and that license-free 
wireless frequencies will NEVER support fiber speeds no matter how much 
you DEMAND from manufacturers then your tune will change...

Mike Hammett wrote:
 Once your users figure out they can watch their favorite shows or movies 
 online, your tune will change.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com




 From: Travis Johnson 
 Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:45 PM
 To: WISPA General List 
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Because I can service where NONE of those other services exist... and I have 
 for 10+ years.

 Residential users don't need more than 1-2Mbps. Our 512k package is FASTER 
 than the 3Mbps CableOne service in our area (as tested by ZD Lab's benchmark 
 program). 

 Travis
 Microserv

 Mike Hammett wrote: 
 2 megs is yesterday's news.

 U-Verse is 18/1.5
 FiOS is 50/20
 Charter has 60/5
 Comcast has 50/10

 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k.  Charter is 30 times faster than that.

 Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world?




 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
 Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

   We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds
 of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and
 some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps
 downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per
 sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market.

 The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in
 wireless networking.

 Best Regards,
 Kevin

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX
 AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
   On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


   Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
   General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



   Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-21 Thread Mike Hammett
I can do it now with Mikrotik.  I'm not sure how it doesn't work with WiMAX, 
given all of its magic and high cost.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 1:18 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Once you figure out that physics is physics and that license-free
 wireless frequencies will NEVER support fiber speeds no matter how much
 you DEMAND from manufacturers then your tune will change...

 Mike Hammett wrote:
 Once your users figure out they can watch their favorite shows or movies 
 online, your tune will change.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com




 From: Travis Johnson
 Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:45 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Because I can service where NONE of those other services exist... and I 
 have for 10+ years.

 Residential users don't need more than 1-2Mbps. Our 512k package is 
 FASTER than the 3Mbps CableOne service in our area (as tested by ZD Lab's 
 benchmark program).

 Travis
 Microserv

 Mike Hammett wrote:
 2 megs is yesterday's news.

 U-Verse is 18/1.5
 FiOS is 50/20
 Charter has 60/5
 Comcast has 50/10

 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k.  Charter is 30 times faster than 
 that.

 Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired 
 world?




 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
 Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

   We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds
 of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and
 some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps
 downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per
 sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market.

 The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in
 wireless networking.

 Best Regards,
 Kevin

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX
 AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
   On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


   Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
   General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



   Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-21 Thread Jack Unger




 hope 

Mike Hammett wrote:

  I can do it now with Mikrotik.  I'm not sure how it doesn't work with WiMAX, 
given all of its magic and high cost.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Jack Unger" jun...@ask-wi.com
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 1:18 AM
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

  
  
Once you figure out that "physics is physics" and that license-free
wireless frequencies will NEVER support fiber speeds no matter how much
you DEMAND from manufacturers then your tune will change...

Mike Hammett wrote:


  Once your users figure out they can watch their favorite shows or movies 
online, your tune will change.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com




From: Travis Johnson
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:45 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


Because I can service where NONE of those other services exist... and I 
have for 10+ years.

Residential users don't need more than 1-2Mbps. Our 512k package is 
FASTER than the 3Mbps CableOne service in our area (as tested by ZD Lab's 
benchmark program).

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:
2 megs is yesterday's news.

U-Verse is 18/1.5
FiOS is 50/20
Charter has 60/5
Comcast has 50/10

2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k.  Charter is 30 times faster than 
that.

Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired 
world?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Kevin Suitor" ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

  We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds
of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and
some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps
downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per
sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market.

The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in
wireless networking.

Best Regards,
Kevin

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
WiMAX
AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Jeff Booher" jefftho...@fastmail.fm
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
To: "'WISPA General List'" wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
station,
that only supports 30 subscribers.

-

Jeff


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
  On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Gino Villarini" g...@aeronetpr.com
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


  Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
the
UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

Take care leon

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
I'm looking into this too.

So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
that tower

Anyone have any better ideas?
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Gino Villarini" g...@aeronetpr.com
To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" motor...@wispa.org; "WISPA
  General
List"
wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



  Fellow operators:

Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

Any updates on experiences with:

Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
Ai

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-21 Thread Gino Villarini
I don't want to bug anyone especifically, but ... If we don't play by
the rules on part90 3.65, 
We are at risk of 1- being fined, 2- giving negative feedback to FCC
which gives more power to License users that are always against us
(Unlicensed - Lite License users) 

To operate on 3.65 you MUST have a license and register your sites ...
Period! 


Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:34 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

Might want to get a license for that.

-Matt

On Mar 20, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

 I have a single 3.65 Mikrotik system (RB411 with XR3-3.7 cards) 
 feeding three remote towers. Rock solid. 60+ days now. 11Mbps. 18 
 miles.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Matt Liotta wrote:

 According to the FCC you haven't deployed any 3.65 gear, so you must 
 not be talking about the same radios I am.

 -Matt

 On Mar 18, 2009, at 6:33 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:


 We have a sector feeding 3 other towers that has been rock solid for
 59 days now. Using a 10mhz channel, delivering 11Mbps at 18 miles.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Matt Liotta wrote:

 Yes, but the UBNT 3.65 radios are crap. Everyone we tried was 
 worthless. On the other hand, every Redline 3.65 radio whether 
 RedMax or AN80 has worked perfect.

 -Matt

 On Mar 18, 2009, at 3:20 PM, Brian Rohrbacher wrote:



 Wow.  I have 200 UBNT radios out there and not a single failure, 
 not even to lightning.  These are 2.4, but still.  I sure do like 
 them.

 rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:


 I put up some Ubiquiti based gear,  one of the radios died about 
 1hr into carrying traffic.

 UBNT shipped me new ones to try overnight.

 I'll update.



 
 insert witty tagline here

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA 
 General List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?





 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, 
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145




 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 -
 ---
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 -
 ---

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




 --
 --
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 --
 --

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


 ---
 -
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 ---
 -

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 -
 ---
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 -
 ---

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-21 Thread Travis Johnson
We already have this happening... and we cap them at 128k and then 
call and tell them our service does not support this. if you continue, 
we will terminate your service. Most people are OK with that.

I'm not going to provide them a 2meg connection for them to use 24x7 for 
$49.95/month when it costs me $200 for that same bandwidth. I would 
rather lose those 10% causing the problem and keep the other 90% happy.

Travis


Mike Hammett wrote:
 Once your users figure out they can watch their favorite shows or movies 
 online, your tune will change.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com




 From: Travis Johnson 
 Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:45 PM
 To: WISPA General List 
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Because I can service where NONE of those other services exist... and I have 
 for 10+ years.

 Residential users don't need more than 1-2Mbps. Our 512k package is FASTER 
 than the 3Mbps CableOne service in our area (as tested by ZD Lab's benchmark 
 program). 

 Travis
 Microserv

 Mike Hammett wrote: 
 2 megs is yesterday's news.

 U-Verse is 18/1.5
 FiOS is 50/20
 Charter has 60/5
 Comcast has 50/10

 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k.  Charter is 30 times faster than that.

 Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world?




 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
 Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

   We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds
 of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and
 some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps
 downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per
 sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market.

 The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in
 wireless networking.

 Best Regards,
 Kevin

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX
 AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
   On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


   Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
   General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



   Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-21 Thread George Rogato
Thats what I see happening, older customers that never even knew how to 
find youtube , never mind understnd or use P2P, are now doing the 
netflix and dish on demand.
I'm seeing a growing number of people using those products now.
Kinda scary in some ways.

George


Mike Hammett wrote:
 Once your users figure out they can watch their favorite shows or movies 
 online, your tune will change.
 
 
 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
 
 
 From: Travis Johnson 
 Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:45 PM
 To: WISPA General List 
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
 
 
 Because I can service where NONE of those other services exist... and I have 
 for 10+ years.
 
 Residential users don't need more than 1-2Mbps. Our 512k package is FASTER 
 than the 3Mbps CableOne service in our area (as tested by ZD Lab's benchmark 
 program). 
 
 Travis
 Microserv
 
 Mike Hammett wrote: 
 2 megs is yesterday's news.
 
 U-Verse is 18/1.5
 FiOS is 50/20
 Charter has 60/5
 Comcast has 50/10
 
 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k.  Charter is 30 times faster than that.
 
 Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world?
 
 
 
 
 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
 
 --
 From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
 Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
 
   We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds
 of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and
 some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps
 downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per
 sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market.
 
 The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in
 wireless networking.
 
 Best Regards,
 Kevin
 
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
 
 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX
 AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.
 
 
 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
 
 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
 
 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.
 
 -
 
 Jeff
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
   On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
 
 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
 
 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
 
 
   Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
 
 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
 
 
 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
 
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
 
 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
 
 Take care leon
 
 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.
 
 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower
 
 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
   General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
 
 
 
   Fellow operators:
 
 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?
 
 Any updates on experiences with:
 
 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???
 
 
 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
 
 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-21 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Personally I think it's great!  I see the day when everyone tells Dish and 
Direct to take a flying leap.  They'll stop paying for the shows that they 
not only don't watch but don't even want to support (anyone seen how screwed 
up MTV is now?).  They'll just pay a few pennies per show and watch only 
what they want to watch.

The AVERAGE person will be empowered to create shows like Star Trek, 
Desperate Housewives, Laugh-in, etc.

The part that has me bothered right now is getting those shows transported. 
Not just from me to the customer, but from the creator to me.  The internet, 
as designed, just isn't efficient at that sort of thing.

We need MUCH better compression mechanisms.  Higher speeds.  More efficient 
spectrum usage.  More spectrum.  Smart radios etc. etc. etc.

marlon

- Original Message - 
From: George Rogato wi...@oregonfast.net
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Thats what I see happening, older customers that never even knew how to
 find youtube , never mind understnd or use P2P, are now doing the
 netflix and dish on demand.
 I'm seeing a growing number of people using those products now.
 Kinda scary in some ways.

 George


 Mike Hammett wrote:
 Once your users figure out they can watch their favorite shows or movies 
 online, your tune will change.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com




 From: Travis Johnson
 Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:45 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Because I can service where NONE of those other services exist... and I 
 have for 10+ years.

 Residential users don't need more than 1-2Mbps. Our 512k package is 
 FASTER than the 3Mbps CableOne service in our area (as tested by ZD Lab's 
 benchmark program).

 Travis
 Microserv

 Mike Hammett wrote:
 2 megs is yesterday's news.

 U-Verse is 18/1.5
 FiOS is 50/20
 Charter has 60/5
 Comcast has 50/10

 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k.  Charter is 30 times faster than 
 that.

 Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired 
 world?




 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
 Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

   We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds
 of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and
 some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps
 downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per
 sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market.

 The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in
 wireless networking.

 Best Regards,
 Kevin

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX
 AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
   On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


   Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-21 Thread RickG
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?




  Folks,

 I seem to have too much time on my hands since I'm on vacation.  This
 thread prompted me to put a quick back of the napkin ROI analysis
 together to see which service options I'd want to be pushing on the
 market.

 What I did was review Bell Canada's service offer - why, because they
 offer Wireless, DSL  Fiber based Internet services in competition to
 Rogers Cable and Cogeco Cable (ON) and Videotron and Cogeco Cable(Qc)
 along with a variety of WISPs, satellite providers, in other words the
 entire spectrum of competition.  As many of you may know Canada ranks in
 the top 10 worldwide for broadband penetration according to the latest
 OECD rankings with 23.8% BB penetration, the United States ranked 15th
 with 19.6% penetration.

 I opted not to include their wireless offer in the model.  For the
 record their 512/512 Portable Internet service using an AC powered
 indoor CPE as the terminal device selling for $17.95/month; they offer a
 2000/800 Rural service with either indoor or outdoor CPE beginning at
 $40/month; and a 3000/1000 Portable using the same indoor CPE as in the
 first offer.  All CPE are sold at $99 to the customer.

 What I've done is outline the UL/DL speeds, cost per month, and a
 sliding scale of oversubscription rates (actual rate used by Bell seems
 to be between 20 and 40 based upon historical data depending on take-up
 rate in an area.  This then generates a kbps / subscriber figure which
 was then divided into the capacity per sector (I'm using the average
 real world sector capacity from our worldwide base of 7 MHz RedMAX
 customers as reported by our Redline Management Suite application that
 we use to monitor production networks under a professional services
 agreement).  I then divided this by the avg kbps/client to calculate the
 maximum subscribers per sector.  I then took the peak subs multiplied by
 monthly ARPU to calculate the monthly and annual peak revenue stream per
 sector.  The required CAPEX per sector was calculated based upon a
 sector controller, shared common costs (GPS, UPS, tower climb, and other
 site acquisition costs - WW avg.) and the cost of the number of CPE
 required by the peak subscriber calculation.  The ROI in months is the
 CAPEX divided by the monthly ARPU.

 I've highlighted the sweet spot avg 18 month ROI lines in each model
 that indicates with between 19 and 229 subscribers, depending upon the
 SLA you'd be able to achieve and ROI acceptable to almost any financier
 using WiMAX.

 Cheers!
 Kevin


 NOTE: Modeled upon Bell Canada's Internet Service offer when using a
 WiMAX BTS to deliver the stated SLAs (all are best effort, residential
 services on a 7 MHz channel with mix of LOS and NLOS customers):

 Monthly Max Subs per
 Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
 ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
 kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded
 sector (months)
 $17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 40 25
 640 $  11,488.00 $ 137,856.00 $
 300,750 26.17949
 $27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 40 70
 229 $6,388.57 $   76,662.86 $
 115,607 18.09593
 $37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 40 200
 80 $3,036.00 $   36,432.00 $
 48,750 16.05731
 $42.95 MAX10 1 1000 11000 40 275
 58 $2,498.91 $   29,986.91 $
 38,932 15.57953
 $72.95 MAX16 16000 1000 17000 40 425
 38 $2,746.35 $   32,956.24 $
 29,691 10.81113


 Monthly Max Subs per
 Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
 ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
 kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded
 sector (months)
 $17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 30 33
 480 $8,616.00 $ 103,392.00 $
 228,750 26.54944
 $27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 30 93
 171 $4,791.43 $   57,497.14 $
 89,893 18.76118
 $37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 30 267
 60 $2,277.00 $   27,324.00 $
 39,750 17.45718
 $42.95 MAX10 1 1000 11000 30 367
 44 $1,874.18 $   22,490.18 $
 32,386 17.28027
 $72.95 MAX16 16000 1000 17000 30 567
 28 $2,059.76 $   24,717.18 $
 25,456 12.35864


 Monthly Max Subs per
 Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
 ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
 kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded
 sector (months)
 $17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 20 50
 320 $5,744.00 $   68,928.00 $
 156,750 27.28935
 $27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 20 140
 114 $3,194.29 $   38,331.43 $
 64,179 20.09168
 $37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 20 400
 40 $1,518.00 $   18,216.00 $
 30,750 20.25692
 $42.95 MAX10 1 1000 11000 20 550
 29 $1,249.45 $   14,993.45 $
 25,841 20.68175
 $72.95 MAX16 16000 1000 17000 20 850
 19 $1,373.18 $   16,478.12 $
 21,221 15.45365

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-21 Thread RickG
 infrastructure. Thats a lot of gear.  Lets start
  getting creative with those volume order low price offers? How low can
 you
  go to get a peice of that $billion?
 
  Manufacturers, Let us know! The industry is writing their grant
 proposals
  now.
 
  Tom DeReggi
  RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
  IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:23 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
 
 
 
  Folks,
 
  I seem to have too much time on my hands since I'm on vacation.  This
  thread prompted me to put a quick back of the napkin ROI analysis
  together to see which service options I'd want to be pushing on the
  market.
 
  What I did was review Bell Canada's service offer - why, because they
  offer Wireless, DSL  Fiber based Internet services in competition to
  Rogers Cable and Cogeco Cable (ON) and Videotron and Cogeco Cable(Qc)
  along with a variety of WISPs, satellite providers, in other words the
  entire spectrum of competition.  As many of you may know Canada ranks
 in
  the top 10 worldwide for broadband penetration according to the latest
  OECD rankings with 23.8% BB penetration, the United States ranked 15th
  with 19.6% penetration.
 
  I opted not to include their wireless offer in the model.  For the
  record their 512/512 Portable Internet service using an AC powered
  indoor CPE as the terminal device selling for $17.95/month; they offer
 a
  2000/800 Rural service with either indoor or outdoor CPE beginning at
  $40/month; and a 3000/1000 Portable using the same indoor CPE as in the
  first offer.  All CPE are sold at $99 to the customer.
 
  What I've done is outline the UL/DL speeds, cost per month, and a
  sliding scale of oversubscription rates (actual rate used by Bell seems
  to be between 20 and 40 based upon historical data depending on take-up
  rate in an area.  This then generates a kbps / subscriber figure which
  was then divided into the capacity per sector (I'm using the average
  real world sector capacity from our worldwide base of 7 MHz RedMAX
  customers as reported by our Redline Management Suite application that
  we use to monitor production networks under a professional services
  agreement).  I then divided this by the avg kbps/client to calculate
 the
  maximum subscribers per sector.  I then took the peak subs multiplied
 by
  monthly ARPU to calculate the monthly and annual peak revenue stream
 per
  sector.  The required CAPEX per sector was calculated based upon a
  sector controller, shared common costs (GPS, UPS, tower climb, and
 other
  site acquisition costs - WW avg.) and the cost of the number of CPE
  required by the peak subscriber calculation.  The ROI in months is the
  CAPEX divided by the monthly ARPU.
 
  I've highlighted the sweet spot avg 18 month ROI lines in each model
  that indicates with between 19 and 229 subscribers, depending upon the
  SLA you'd be able to achieve and ROI acceptable to almost any financier
  using WiMAX.
 
  Cheers!
  Kevin
 
 
  NOTE: Modeled upon Bell Canada's Internet Service offer when using a
  WiMAX BTS to deliver the stated SLAs (all are best effort, residential
  services on a 7 MHz channel with mix of LOS and NLOS customers):
 
  Monthly Max Subs per
  Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
  ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
  kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded
  sector (months)
  $17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 40 25
  640 $  11,488.00 $ 137,856.00 $
  300,750 26.17949
  $27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 40 70
  229 $6,388.57 $   76,662.86 $
  115,607 18.09593
  $37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 40 200
  80 $3,036.00 $   36,432.00 $
  48,750 16.05731
  $42.95 MAX10 1 1000 11000 40 275
  58 $2,498.91 $   29,986.91 $
  38,932 15.57953
  $72.95 MAX16 16000 1000 17000 40 425
  38 $2,746.35 $   32,956.24 $
  29,691 10.81113
 
 
  Monthly Max Subs per
  Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
  ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
  kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded
  sector (months)
  $17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 30 33
  480 $8,616.00 $ 103,392.00 $
  228,750 26.54944
  $27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 30 93
  171 $4,791.43 $   57,497.14 $
  89,893 18.76118
  $37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 30 267
  60 $2,277.00 $   27,324.00 $
  39,750 17.45718
  $42.95 MAX10 1 1000 11000 30 367
  44 $1,874.18 $   22,490.18 $
  32,386 17.28027
  $72.95 MAX16 16000 1000 17000 30 567
  28 $2,059.76 $   24,717.18 $
  25,456 12.35864
 
 
  Monthly Max Subs per
  Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
  ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
  kbps

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-21 Thread George Rogato
 to fill.  But I think
 clever innovators should be able to fill it.

 $7 billion is not a lot to come anywhere close to helping All
 Americans
 get next generation broadband.  But $7 billion is a hech of a lot of
 money
 to inject into an ISP manufacturer industry. Lets just say $1 billion of
 it
 would go to Wireless infrastructure. Thats a lot of gear.  Lets start
 getting creative with those volume order low price offers? How low can
 you
 go to get a peice of that $billion?

 Manufacturers, Let us know! The industry is writing their grant
 proposals
 now.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message -
 From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:23 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Folks,

 I seem to have too much time on my hands since I'm on vacation.  This
 thread prompted me to put a quick back of the napkin ROI analysis
 together to see which service options I'd want to be pushing on the
 market.

 What I did was review Bell Canada's service offer - why, because they
 offer Wireless, DSL  Fiber based Internet services in competition to
 Rogers Cable and Cogeco Cable (ON) and Videotron and Cogeco Cable(Qc)
 along with a variety of WISPs, satellite providers, in other words the
 entire spectrum of competition.  As many of you may know Canada ranks
 in
 the top 10 worldwide for broadband penetration according to the latest
 OECD rankings with 23.8% BB penetration, the United States ranked 15th
 with 19.6% penetration.

 I opted not to include their wireless offer in the model.  For the
 record their 512/512 Portable Internet service using an AC powered
 indoor CPE as the terminal device selling for $17.95/month; they offer
 a
 2000/800 Rural service with either indoor or outdoor CPE beginning at
 $40/month; and a 3000/1000 Portable using the same indoor CPE as in the
 first offer.  All CPE are sold at $99 to the customer.

 What I've done is outline the UL/DL speeds, cost per month, and a
 sliding scale of oversubscription rates (actual rate used by Bell seems
 to be between 20 and 40 based upon historical data depending on take-up
 rate in an area.  This then generates a kbps / subscriber figure which
 was then divided into the capacity per sector (I'm using the average
 real world sector capacity from our worldwide base of 7 MHz RedMAX
 customers as reported by our Redline Management Suite application that
 we use to monitor production networks under a professional services
 agreement).  I then divided this by the avg kbps/client to calculate
 the
 maximum subscribers per sector.  I then took the peak subs multiplied
 by
 monthly ARPU to calculate the monthly and annual peak revenue stream
 per
 sector.  The required CAPEX per sector was calculated based upon a
 sector controller, shared common costs (GPS, UPS, tower climb, and
 other
 site acquisition costs - WW avg.) and the cost of the number of CPE
 required by the peak subscriber calculation.  The ROI in months is the
 CAPEX divided by the monthly ARPU.

 I've highlighted the sweet spot avg 18 month ROI lines in each model
 that indicates with between 19 and 229 subscribers, depending upon the
 SLA you'd be able to achieve and ROI acceptable to almost any financier
 using WiMAX.

 Cheers!
 Kevin


 NOTE: Modeled upon Bell Canada's Internet Service offer when using a
 WiMAX BTS to deliver the stated SLAs (all are best effort, residential
 services on a 7 MHz channel with mix of LOS and NLOS customers):

 Monthly Max Subs per
 Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
 ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
 kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded
 sector (months)
 $17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 40 25
 640 $  11,488.00 $ 137,856.00 $
 300,750 26.17949
 $27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 40 70
 229 $6,388.57 $   76,662.86 $
 115,607 18.09593
 $37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 40 200
 80 $3,036.00 $   36,432.00 $
 48,750 16.05731
 $42.95 MAX10 1 1000 11000 40 275
 58 $2,498.91 $   29,986.91 $
 38,932 15.57953
 $72.95 MAX16 16000 1000 17000 40 425
 38 $2,746.35 $   32,956.24 $
 29,691 10.81113


 Monthly Max Subs per
 Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
 ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
 kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded
 sector (months)
 $17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 30 33
 480 $8,616.00 $ 103,392.00 $
 228,750 26.54944
 $27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 30 93
 171 $4,791.43 $   57,497.14 $
 89,893 18.76118
 $37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 30 267
 60 $2,277.00 $   27,324.00 $
 39,750 17.45718
 $42.95 MAX10 1 1000 11000 30 367
 44 $1,874.18 $   22,490.18 $
 32,386 17.28027
 $72.95 MAX16 16000 1000 17000 30

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-21 Thread RickG
 job. But more importantly give grant Decission makers a reason
 to
  favor wireless. Give them speeds that public advocates will be excited
  about. And give us price points that will let us do microcells to
  accomplish
  top penetration.  Wimax isn;t competing against wifi anymore, they are
  competing against fiber. I admit, Its a tall order to fill.  But I
 think
  clever innovators should be able to fill it.
 
  $7 billion is not a lot to come anywhere close to helping All
  Americans
  get next generation broadband.  But $7 billion is a hech of a lot of
  money
  to inject into an ISP manufacturer industry. Lets just say $1 billion
 of
  it
  would go to Wireless infrastructure. Thats a lot of gear.  Lets start
  getting creative with those volume order low price offers? How low can
  you
  go to get a peice of that $billion?
 
  Manufacturers, Let us know! The industry is writing their grant
  proposals
  now.
 
  Tom DeReggi
  RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
  IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:23 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
 
 
 
  Folks,
 
  I seem to have too much time on my hands since I'm on vacation.  This
  thread prompted me to put a quick back of the napkin ROI analysis
  together to see which service options I'd want to be pushing on the
  market.
 
  What I did was review Bell Canada's service offer - why, because they
  offer Wireless, DSL  Fiber based Internet services in competition to
  Rogers Cable and Cogeco Cable (ON) and Videotron and Cogeco Cable(Qc)
  along with a variety of WISPs, satellite providers, in other words
 the
  entire spectrum of competition.  As many of you may know Canada ranks
  in
  the top 10 worldwide for broadband penetration according to the
 latest
  OECD rankings with 23.8% BB penetration, the United States ranked
 15th
  with 19.6% penetration.
 
  I opted not to include their wireless offer in the model.  For the
  record their 512/512 Portable Internet service using an AC powered
  indoor CPE as the terminal device selling for $17.95/month; they
 offer
  a
  2000/800 Rural service with either indoor or outdoor CPE beginning at
  $40/month; and a 3000/1000 Portable using the same indoor CPE as in
 the
  first offer.  All CPE are sold at $99 to the customer.
 
  What I've done is outline the UL/DL speeds, cost per month, and a
  sliding scale of oversubscription rates (actual rate used by Bell
 seems
  to be between 20 and 40 based upon historical data depending on
 take-up
  rate in an area.  This then generates a kbps / subscriber figure
 which
  was then divided into the capacity per sector (I'm using the average
  real world sector capacity from our worldwide base of 7 MHz RedMAX
  customers as reported by our Redline Management Suite application
 that
  we use to monitor production networks under a professional services
  agreement).  I then divided this by the avg kbps/client to calculate
  the
  maximum subscribers per sector.  I then took the peak subs multiplied
  by
  monthly ARPU to calculate the monthly and annual peak revenue stream
  per
  sector.  The required CAPEX per sector was calculated based upon a
  sector controller, shared common costs (GPS, UPS, tower climb, and
  other
  site acquisition costs - WW avg.) and the cost of the number of CPE
  required by the peak subscriber calculation.  The ROI in months is
 the
  CAPEX divided by the monthly ARPU.
 
  I've highlighted the sweet spot avg 18 month ROI lines in each model
  that indicates with between 19 and 229 subscribers, depending upon
 the
  SLA you'd be able to achieve and ROI acceptable to almost any
 financier
  using WiMAX.
 
  Cheers!
  Kevin
 
 
  NOTE: Modeled upon Bell Canada's Internet Service offer when using a
  WiMAX BTS to deliver the stated SLAs (all are best effort,
 residential
  services on a 7 MHz channel with mix of LOS and NLOS customers):
 
  Monthly Max Subs per
  Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
  ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
  kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded
  sector (months)
  $17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 40 25
  640 $  11,488.00 $ 137,856.00 $
  300,750 26.17949
  $27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 40 70
  229 $6,388.57 $   76,662.86 $
  115,607 18.09593
  $37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 40 200
  80 $3,036.00 $   36,432.00 $
  48,750 16.05731
  $42.95 MAX10 1 1000 11000 40 275
  58 $2,498.91 $   29,986.91 $
  38,932 15.57953
  $72.95 MAX16 16000 1000 17000 40 425
  38 $2,746.35 $   32,956.24 $
  29,691 10.81113
 
 
  Monthly Max Subs per
  Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
  ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
  kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-21 Thread RickG
  is, we really aren't lazy. (I was just kidding before :-)
 
  So WiMax vendors,  Make us faster equipment!!! That we can
 Afford
  today!!!
 
  There is a lot of grant money comming up this year. Here is your
  chance
  for
  volume orders, from the WISP market. Give us a reason to stay
 wireless
  providers and not to become a fiber provider. Backhaul transport
  providers
  are doing their part. But I think last mile manufacturers still have
  to
  do a
  better job. But more importantly give grant Decission makers a
 reason
  to
  favor wireless. Give them speeds that public advocates will be
 excited
  about. And give us price points that will let us do microcells to
  accomplish
  top penetration.  Wimax isn;t competing against wifi anymore, they
 are
  competing against fiber. I admit, Its a tall order to fill.  But I
  think
  clever innovators should be able to fill it.
 
  $7 billion is not a lot to come anywhere close to helping All
  Americans
  get next generation broadband.  But $7 billion is a hech of a lot of
  money
  to inject into an ISP manufacturer industry. Lets just say $1
 billion
  of
  it
  would go to Wireless infrastructure. Thats a lot of gear.  Lets
 start
  getting creative with those volume order low price offers? How low
 can
  you
  go to get a peice of that $billion?
 
  Manufacturers, Let us know! The industry is writing their grant
  proposals
  now.
 
  Tom DeReggi
  RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
  IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:23 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
 
 
 
  Folks,
 
  I seem to have too much time on my hands since I'm on vacation.
  This
  thread prompted me to put a quick back of the napkin ROI analysis
  together to see which service options I'd want to be pushing on the
  market.
 
  What I did was review Bell Canada's service offer - why, because
 they
  offer Wireless, DSL  Fiber based Internet services in competition
 to
  Rogers Cable and Cogeco Cable (ON) and Videotron and Cogeco
 Cable(Qc)
  along with a variety of WISPs, satellite providers, in other words
  the
  entire spectrum of competition.  As many of you may know Canada
 ranks
  in
  the top 10 worldwide for broadband penetration according to the
  latest
  OECD rankings with 23.8% BB penetration, the United States ranked
  15th
  with 19.6% penetration.
 
  I opted not to include their wireless offer in the model.  For the
  record their 512/512 Portable Internet service using an AC powered
  indoor CPE as the terminal device selling for $17.95/month; they
  offer
  a
  2000/800 Rural service with either indoor or outdoor CPE beginning
 at
  $40/month; and a 3000/1000 Portable using the same indoor CPE as in
  the
  first offer.  All CPE are sold at $99 to the customer.
 
  What I've done is outline the UL/DL speeds, cost per month, and a
  sliding scale of oversubscription rates (actual rate used by Bell
  seems
  to be between 20 and 40 based upon historical data depending on
  take-up
  rate in an area.  This then generates a kbps / subscriber figure
  which
  was then divided into the capacity per sector (I'm using the
 average
  real world sector capacity from our worldwide base of 7 MHz RedMAX
  customers as reported by our Redline Management Suite application
  that
  we use to monitor production networks under a professional services
  agreement).  I then divided this by the avg kbps/client to
 calculate
  the
  maximum subscribers per sector.  I then took the peak subs
 multiplied
  by
  monthly ARPU to calculate the monthly and annual peak revenue
 stream
  per
  sector.  The required CAPEX per sector was calculated based upon a
  sector controller, shared common costs (GPS, UPS, tower climb, and
  other
  site acquisition costs - WW avg.) and the cost of the number of CPE
  required by the peak subscriber calculation.  The ROI in months is
  the
  CAPEX divided by the monthly ARPU.
 
  I've highlighted the sweet spot avg 18 month ROI lines in each
 model
  that indicates with between 19 and 229 subscribers, depending upon
  the
  SLA you'd be able to achieve and ROI acceptable to almost any
  financier
  using WiMAX.
 
  Cheers!
  Kevin
 
 
  NOTE: Modeled upon Bell Canada's Internet Service offer when using
 a
  WiMAX BTS to deliver the stated SLAs (all are best effort,
  residential
  services on a 7 MHz channel with mix of LOS and NLOS customers):
 
  Monthly Max Subs per
  Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
  ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
  kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded
  sector (months)
  $17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 40 25
  640 $  11,488.00 $ 137,856.00 $
  300,750 26.17949
  $27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 40 70
  229 $6,388.57 $   76,662.86 $
  115,607 18.09593
  $37.95 Performance

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-21 Thread Mike Hammett
It is 60 ish miles away, but Eugene has Electric Lightwave, 360 networks, 
Global Crossing, Level3 (they may even have fiber in your town).


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: George Rogato wi...@oregonfast.net
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 11:24 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Yeah I realize that. We're luycky that Boneville and Williams did a big
 fiber deal many years ago that put fiber all across the North West..
 Still is not easy to get access, the transport costs are quite high, but
 it's possible.

 maybe some of the emp[hasis on the broadband stimulus money ought to be
 pointed at getting big fiber pipes to the area or region rather than
 getting fiber to the home.




 RickG wrote:
 George,
 Sounds great and mus be nice but there are no facilities in the 
 boondocks!
 -RickG

 On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:15 PM, George Rogato 
 wi...@oregonfast.netwrote:

 Kinda high
 If you are lucky and you have access to fiber consider this

 Cogent, if you buy a GigE port and commit to 200 megs, you can have it
 for $5.00 per meg, or minimum of $1,000.00 per month and that comes with
 a whopping 200 megs, if you need to exceed 200 megs, it's just $5.00 per
 meg.

 If you get to $4,000 per month usage, then the price drops to $4.00 per
 meg.

 George


 Blair Davis wrote:
 Some simple numbers...

 $1700/month for 10Mbits.  Much better than the $600 per 1.54Mbit I was
 paying out here.

 1Mbit per Netflix or IPTV user.

 $170 cost of bandwidth per user.

 Users out here are not going to pay that.  Period.

 The problem, out in the rural areas at least, is not delivering the
 bandwidth, it is getting it at a reasonable cost.

 These apps use an order of magnitude more bandwidth than the standard
 web browsing and email apps we are used to.  But the users don't and
 won't understand that.

 If you went to buy a new TV and it used an order of magnitude more 
 power
 to run it, your electric bill would soon show you the error of your 
 ways.

 The only real solution to this problem is to move to per bit pricing.
 That way, users will see the cost of what they are doing and adjust
 their usage to what they are willing to pay for.

 Netflix, IPTV and other apps like them simply shift the their cost of
 doing business to us.  Unless we either refuse to support these apps, 
 or
 begin billing our users for them, it will kill us.

 The cable and dsl providers are starting to figure this out.

 Blair



 Tom DeReggi wrote:
 Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired
 world?

 Depends who you are referring by stating wireless world.

 The WISP providers are surely NOT happy with that.  They are just
 realistic about what they have available.
 And they are creative enough to understand that there are still 
 markets
 willing to deal with that, because WISPs have other things to offer of
 equal
 or greater value, to creat a WISP market.

 I'm also not sure the public is happy with that. I haven't heard one
 public advocate at Broadband public meetings advocating Please give
 money
 to wireless companies so we can have slower service.  Wireless will 
 be
 a
 part of Stimulus grants because... We can argue we'll get you service
 sooner, and we'll stretch the dollar further to serve more areas and
 people,
 so less people get left without being served, and more people get 
 better
 service than they currently have. In the long run, with Wireless,
 consumers
 will have to compromise for less, in exchange for the instant
 gratification
 that can be gained today.

 WISPs deal with it because comparatively they are either broke, lazy, 
 or
 impatient, in order to meet demand. Or I should say, don't want to end
 up
 broke.
 I'm not meaning to be derogatory in using those terms. What I mean 
 is...

 Sure we'd all like to lay fiber.  We just don't want to wait 20 years
 for an
 ROI (impatient :-). We don't have millions and billions of Finance
 capabilty
 upfront (broke :-).
 We don't want to spend years trying to get permits and negotiating
 easements
 with entities that care less about advancing our cause quickly (lazy
 :-).
 The truth is Monopolies are willing to do all these things.  But they
 also
 grudgingly backout of their committments and delay as long as 
 possible,
 because honestly they don't want to do it either, and are even more
 lazy,
 and clearly have all the time in the world, without competition 
 forcing
 them
 to work harder.

 The truth is, Wireless providers DO NEED faster equipment.  And the
 Truth
 is, we really aren't lazy. (I was just kidding before :-)

 So WiMax vendors,  Make us faster equipment!!! That we can Afford
 today!!!

 There is a lot of grant money comming up this year. Here is your 
 chance
 for
 volume orders, from the WISP market. Give us a reason to stay wireless
 providers and not to become a fiber provider

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-21 Thread Mike Hammett
I knew of NOANET, but their network map is hard to find.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: George Rogato wi...@oregonfast.net
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 12:39 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm all set for now Mike.
 We have been connected to another one your missing, Light Speed
 Networks, formerly NOAHNET, since 2002

 Recently we just got a new fiber carrier in town, they did a submarine
 cable to Alaska. it lands just up the street from us and they work with
 my fiber carrier.
 Right now they have 4 10GigE circuits that go from here to Alaska and
 who knows where.

 Thats what I would call capacity.




 Mike Hammett wrote:
 It is 60 ish miles away, but Eugene has Electric Lightwave, 360 networks,
 Global Crossing, Level3 (they may even have fiber in your town).


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: George Rogato wi...@oregonfast.net
 Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 11:24 AM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Yeah I realize that. We're luycky that Boneville and Williams did a big
 fiber deal many years ago that put fiber all across the North West..
 Still is not easy to get access, the transport costs are quite high, but
 it's possible.

 maybe some of the emp[hasis on the broadband stimulus money ought to be
 pointed at getting big fiber pipes to the area or region rather than
 getting fiber to the home.




 RickG wrote:
 George,
 Sounds great and mus be nice but there are no facilities in the
 boondocks!
 -RickG

 On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:15 PM, George Rogato
 wi...@oregonfast.netwrote:

 Kinda high
 If you are lucky and you have access to fiber consider this

 Cogent, if you buy a GigE port and commit to 200 megs, you can have it
 for $5.00 per meg, or minimum of $1,000.00 per month and that comes 
 with
 a whopping 200 megs, if you need to exceed 200 megs, it's just $5.00 
 per
 meg.

 If you get to $4,000 per month usage, then the price drops to $4.00 
 per
 meg.

 George


 Blair Davis wrote:
 Some simple numbers...

 $1700/month for 10Mbits.  Much better than the $600 per 1.54Mbit I 
 was
 paying out here.

 1Mbit per Netflix or IPTV user.

 $170 cost of bandwidth per user.

 Users out here are not going to pay that.  Period.

 The problem, out in the rural areas at least, is not delivering the
 bandwidth, it is getting it at a reasonable cost.

 These apps use an order of magnitude more bandwidth than the standard
 web browsing and email apps we are used to.  But the users don't and
 won't understand that.

 If you went to buy a new TV and it used an order of magnitude more
 power
 to run it, your electric bill would soon show you the error of your
 ways.

 The only real solution to this problem is to move to per bit pricing.
 That way, users will see the cost of what they are doing and adjust
 their usage to what they are willing to pay for.

 Netflix, IPTV and other apps like them simply shift the their cost of
 doing business to us.  Unless we either refuse to support these apps,
 or
 begin billing our users for them, it will kill us.

 The cable and dsl providers are starting to figure this out.

 Blair



 Tom DeReggi wrote:
 Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the 
 wired
 world?

 Depends who you are referring by stating wireless world.

 The WISP providers are surely NOT happy with that.  They are just
 realistic about what they have available.
 And they are creative enough to understand that there are still
 markets
 willing to deal with that, because WISPs have other things to offer 
 of
 equal
 or greater value, to creat a WISP market.

 I'm also not sure the public is happy with that. I haven't heard 
 one
 public advocate at Broadband public meetings advocating Please give
 money
 to wireless companies so we can have slower service.  Wireless will
 be
 a
 part of Stimulus grants because... We can argue we'll get you 
 service
 sooner, and we'll stretch the dollar further to serve more areas and
 people,
 so less people get left without being served, and more people get
 better
 service than they currently have. In the long run, with Wireless,
 consumers
 will have to compromise for less, in exchange for the instant
 gratification
 that can be gained today.

 WISPs deal with it because comparatively they are either broke, 
 lazy,
 or
 impatient, in order to meet demand. Or I should say, don't want to 
 end
 up
 broke.
 I'm not meaning to be derogatory in using those terms. What I mean
 is...

 Sure we'd all like to lay fiber.  We just don't want to wait 20 
 years
 for an
 ROI (impatient :-). We don't have millions and billions of Finance
 capabilty
 upfront (broke :-).
 We don't want to spend years trying to get permits and negotiating
 easements

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
location location location and location

I have towers that hit very close to your 1000 sqare miles (18 miles with 2 
to 3 megs delivered via ptp radio).  There are only 10 or so subs on that 
tower.

We have other towers that cover over 700 square miles and they service less 
than 10 people.  It's not that we do a bad sales job, there just aren't any 
people that live there.

On one of the NTIA sessions the other day someone FINALLY pointed out that 
even Canada has a higher % of urban vs. rural residents than the USA.

Location Location Location

marlon

- Original Message - 
From: John Rock jo...@wirelessconnections.net
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


Hey reader you are muddying the waters a bit here.
I thought the days were over when people thought they could put up one base
station and serve a 1000 square miles or worse put up one base station and
server a 1000 customers.
I have a customer in Canada that serves 12 Mb out to 45 kilometers via
WiMAX, LOS of course.

John Rock
Director of Operations - Senior Engineer
Wireless Connections
166 Milan Ave., Norwalk, Oh. 44857
ACCessing the Future Today!!
ofc. 419.660.6100
cell 419-706-7356
fax 419-668-4077
http://www.wirelessconnections.net
This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential
and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. If
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, copying
or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. If
you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of rea...@muddyfrogwater.us
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:45 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

I can get 12 to 18 mbit off my 5 ghz AP's, and with customers limited to
2Mbit, I'm still bumping into limits in the 30 - 45 range per AP,  and even
then, I consider it oversubscribed.

Now, 18mbit throughput in 7 mhz is great...  But how good does the signal
have to be, and when the signals degrade due to distance or... How much
effect does this have? What's the distance you can do 18?   2 miles?   4

miles?   I need 25 miles...   I can't even GO 25 miles decently with 3.65,
due to eirp limits.






insert witty tagline here

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.

 In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not having
 enough
 bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the next and
 in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18
 megabit.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread Matt Liotta
According to the FCC you haven't deployed any 3.65 gear, so you must  
not be talking about the same radios I am.

-Matt

On Mar 18, 2009, at 6:33 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

 We have a sector feeding 3 other towers that has been rock solid for  
 59 days now. Using a 10mhz channel, delivering 11Mbps at 18 miles.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Matt Liotta wrote:

 Yes, but the UBNT 3.65 radios are crap. Everyone we tried was
 worthless. On the other hand, every Redline 3.65 radio whether RedMax
 or AN80 has worked perfect.

 -Matt

 On Mar 18, 2009, at 3:20 PM, Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


 Wow.  I have 200 UBNT radios out there and not a single failure, not
 even to lightning.  These are 2.4, but still.  I sure do like them.

 rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:

 I put up some Ubiquiti based gear,  one of the radios died about
 1hr into
 carrying traffic.

 UBNT shipped me new ones to try overnight.

 I'll update.



 
 insert witty tagline here

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
 General List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?




 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan
 ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145




 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread Kevin Suitor
We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds
of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and
some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps
downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per
sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market.

The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in
wireless networking.

Best Regards,
Kevin

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
WiMAX 
AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base 
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145





 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/









 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/




 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/



 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/




 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread Travis Johnson




I have a single 3.65 Mikrotik system (RB411 with XR3-3.7 cards) feeding
three remote towers. Rock solid. 60+ days now. 11Mbps. 18 miles.

Travis
Microserv

Matt Liotta wrote:

  According to the FCC you haven't deployed any 3.65 gear, so you must  
not be talking about the same radios I am.

-Matt

On Mar 18, 2009, at 6:33 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

  
  
We have a sector feeding 3 other towers that has been rock solid for  
59 days now. Using a 10mhz channel, delivering 11Mbps at 18 miles.

Travis
Microserv

Matt Liotta wrote:


  Yes, but the UBNT 3.65 radios are crap. Everyone we tried was
worthless. On the other hand, every Redline 3.65 radio whether RedMax
or AN80 has worked perfect.

-Matt

On Mar 18, 2009, at 3:20 PM, Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


  
  
Wow.  I have 200 UBNT radios out there and not a single failure, not
even to lightning.  These are 2.4, but still.  I sure do like them.

rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:



  I put up some Ubiquiti based gear,  one of the radios died about
1hr into
carrying traffic.

UBNT shipped me new ones to try overnight.

I'll update.




insert witty tagline here

- Original Message -
From: "Gino Villarini" g...@aeronetpr.com
To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" motor...@wispa.org; "WISPA
General List"
wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?




  
  
Fellow operators:

Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

Any updates on experiences with:

Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
Airspan
???


Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



  
  
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



  


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


  
  

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



  



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

  
  



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


  






WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread Gary Garrett
No, Ketchup is a vegetable, Rutabaga is cattle feed.



George Rogato wrote:
 
 Jeff Booher wrote:
 Mike,

 This once again is not an apples to apples argument but rather apples to
 rutabega. Still fruit, but very different fruit :)

 
 I thought a rutabega was a vegitable.
 
 



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread Scottie Arnett
I think what Mike is getting at is that WIMAX(and every other PtMP wireless 
technology available today) is not going to give us the speed we need to 
compete with cable offering 10 - 20 Mbit to residential users...not to mention 
what fiber is going to do.

Scottie

-- Original Message --
From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date:  Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:42:23 -0400

We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds
of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and
some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps
downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per
sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market.

The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in
wireless networking.

Best Regards,
Kevin

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
WiMAX 
AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base 
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145





 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/









 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/




 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/



 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread Mike Hammett
2 megs is yesterday's news.

U-Verse is 18/1.5
FiOS is 50/20
Charter has 60/5
Comcast has 50/10

2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k.  Charter is 30 times faster than that.

Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds
 of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and
 some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps
 downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per
 sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market.

 The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in
 wireless networking.

 Best Regards,
 Kevin

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX
 AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
 General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145




 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/







 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




 
 
 WISPA

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread 3-dB Networks
Because speed isn't everything.

Mesa went head to head with Cable and DSL for a long time... offering
packages of 7Mb this or that.  Our highest package was 2.5Mb/1Mb.  Yet we
still did a very respectful job, because we offered the best customer
service around, and people liked using a local company.

I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home?  I have
a 15Mb Business Class Comcast connection at home... it burst to 30Mb.  Yet
it doesn't feel any faster than a 2Mb connection to me.

Now if I'm downloading files... :-)

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 11:58 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2 megs is yesterday's news.

U-Verse is 18/1.5
FiOS is 50/20
Charter has 60/5
Comcast has 50/10

2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k.  Charter is 30 times faster than
that.

Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired
world?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with
hundreds
 of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink
and
 some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps
 downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per
 sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market.

 The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in
 wireless networking.

 Best Regards,
 Kevin

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX
 AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector
install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even
see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
 General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145




 --
--
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 --
--
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread David E. Smith
3-dB Networks wrote:
 I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home?
 
 Now if I'm downloading files.. :-)

I think you just answered your own question.

David Smith
MVN.net



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread Scott Carullo
If I only got two megs at home I'd move.

I have 35mb symmetrical connection I am fond of. 

A lot of people however in our neck of the woods wouldn't settle for 
anything less than 5-10

Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102

 Original Message 
 From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net
 Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:19 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
 
 3-dB Networks wrote:
  I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home?
  
  Now if I'm downloading files.. :-)
 
 I think you just answered your own question.
 
 David Smith
 MVN.net
 
 
 


 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 


  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread Matt Liotta

On Mar 20, 2009, at 1:57 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

 2 megs is yesterday's news.

 U-Verse is 18/1.5
 FiOS is 50/20
 Charter has 60/5
 Comcast has 50/10

 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k.  Charter is 30 times faster than  
 that.

 Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired  
 world?

Not sure how any of the above is relevant to 3.65 specifically or to  
where the thread veered off to. There is not going to be a wireless- 
based system that can compete with cable/fiber for residential use.

-Matt



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread 3-dB Networks
Well... I did but I didn't.

You can have as big of a pipe into the world that you want.  Heck our office
has 45Mb symmetrical.  But my downloads here are no faster at home because
of the limits on the servers your downloading from... and heck just the
internet in general.

There is a point where no matter how fast your internet connection is...
it's not going to feel any faster.  Your router will not have enough
horsepower to handle it... or your computer won't.

At the end of the day I think people demand service.  I'm talking about say
90% of the users out there.  Of course the 10% that know tech are going to
want all of the speed they can get... but do we really need it?

Anyways... it amazes me how many WISP's only offer 1Mb speed packages...
their base one being 128Kb.  But in their part of the country that is what
works.  Wireless in cities saturated with Cable/DSL is probably best left to
businesses where your competing against T-1 lines and Fiber.

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of David E. Smith
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:20 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

3-dB Networks wrote:
 I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home?

 Now if I'm downloading files.. :-)

I think you just answered your own question.

David Smith
MVN.net




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread Matt Liotta
Might want to get a license for that.

-Matt

On Mar 20, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

 I have a single 3.65 Mikrotik system (RB411 with XR3-3.7 cards)  
 feeding three remote towers. Rock solid. 60+ days now. 11Mbps. 18  
 miles.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Matt Liotta wrote:

 According to the FCC you haven't deployed any 3.65 gear, so you must
 not be talking about the same radios I am.

 -Matt

 On Mar 18, 2009, at 6:33 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:


 We have a sector feeding 3 other towers that has been rock solid for
 59 days now. Using a 10mhz channel, delivering 11Mbps at 18 miles.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Matt Liotta wrote:

 Yes, but the UBNT 3.65 radios are crap. Everyone we tried was
 worthless. On the other hand, every Redline 3.65 radio whether  
 RedMax
 or AN80 has worked perfect.

 -Matt

 On Mar 18, 2009, at 3:20 PM, Brian Rohrbacher wrote:



 Wow.  I have 200 UBNT radios out there and not a single failure,  
 not
 even to lightning.  These are 2.4, but still.  I sure do like  
 them.

 rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:


 I put up some Ubiquiti based gear,  one of the radios died about
 1hr into
 carrying traffic.

 UBNT shipped me new ones to try overnight.

 I'll update.



 
 insert witty tagline here

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
 General List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?





 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan
 ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145




 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread Mike Hammett
Others on the list have mentioned the exponential increase in video use. 
Those are multi megabit streams ran for hours on end.  I believe someone 
reported that NetFlix peaked at 5 megabits.  Why would I deploy gear that 
couldn't handle these next generation services?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:13 PM
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Because speed isn't everything.

 Mesa went head to head with Cable and DSL for a long time... offering
 packages of 7Mb this or that.  Our highest package was 2.5Mb/1Mb.  Yet we
 still did a very respectful job, because we offered the best customer
 service around, and people liked using a local company.

 I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home?  I 
 have
 a 15Mb Business Class Comcast connection at home... it burst to 30Mb.  Yet
 it doesn't feel any faster than a 2Mb connection to me.

 Now if I'm downloading files... :-)

 Daniel White
 3-dB Networks
 http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 11:58 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2 megs is yesterday's news.

U-Verse is 18/1.5
FiOS is 50/20
Charter has 60/5
Comcast has 50/10

2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k.  Charter is 30 times faster than
that.

Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired
world?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with
hundreds
 of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink
and
 some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps
 downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per
 sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market.

 The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in
 wireless networking.

 Best Regards,
 Kevin

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX
 AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector
install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even
see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
 General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread Mike Hammett
I was referring to the magnitude in difference from what I'm being told to 
sell vs. what the competition is doing and what dial up is.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:40 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 On Mar 20, 2009, at 1:57 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

 2 megs is yesterday's news.

 U-Verse is 18/1.5
 FiOS is 50/20
 Charter has 60/5
 Comcast has 50/10

 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k.  Charter is 30 times faster than
 that.

 Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired
 world?

 Not sure how any of the above is relevant to 3.65 specifically or to
 where the thread veered off to. There is not going to be a wireless-
 based system that can compete with cable/fiber for residential use.

 -Matt


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread 3-dB Networks
Well the Canopy 430 series is going to do 42Mbps... but even then how well
is that going to work... considering your clients are going to have to be
within 2 miles.

I don't think you should have a realistic expectation that wireless (in a
point to multipoint environment) is going to match the next generation
demand.  You can pray and hope... but I think in many ways the laws of
physics are going to prevent wireless from competing with DSL/Cable... and
god forbid, FTTH.

Anyways... as has also been mentioned on this list... I'd expect in 5 years
most service providers are going to charge by usage... so stream that 5mb
movie all you want for three hours... but you're going to pay me for it.  

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:56 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

Others on the list have mentioned the exponential increase in video use.
Those are multi megabit streams ran for hours on end.  I believe someone
reported that NetFlix peaked at 5 megabits.  Why would I deploy gear
that
couldn't handle these next generation services?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:13 PM
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Because speed isn't everything.

 Mesa went head to head with Cable and DSL for a long time... offering
 packages of 7Mb this or that.  Our highest package was 2.5Mb/1Mb.  Yet
we
 still did a very respectful job, because we offered the best customer
 service around, and people liked using a local company.

 I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home?  I
 have
 a 15Mb Business Class Comcast connection at home... it burst to 30Mb.
Yet
 it doesn't feel any faster than a 2Mb connection to me.

 Now if I'm downloading files... :-)

 Daniel White
 3-dB Networks
 http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 11:58 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2 megs is yesterday's news.

U-Verse is 18/1.5
FiOS is 50/20
Charter has 60/5
Comcast has 50/10

2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k.  Charter is 30 times faster than
that.

Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired
world?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with
hundreds
 of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink
and
 some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps
 downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per
 sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market.

 The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in
 wireless networking.

 Best Regards,
 Kevin

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX
 AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread Mike Hammett
If I don't expect it, why will the manufacturers make it?

They seem to be happy to court the guy offering 1 megabit out of a $8k radio 
when anything made in the past 8 years could do the same thing.

Do I expect to take Joe mainstream away from Comcast?  No.  Do I want to be 
seen as the dialup to their superhighway?  Definitely not.

I plan to switch to usage based billing, but I also want a system that will 
supply the demand.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:01 PM
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Well the Canopy 430 series is going to do 42Mbps... but even then how well
 is that going to work... considering your clients are going to have to be
 within 2 miles.

 I don't think you should have a realistic expectation that wireless (in a
 point to multipoint environment) is going to match the next generation
 demand.  You can pray and hope... but I think in many ways the laws of
 physics are going to prevent wireless from competing with DSL/Cable... and
 god forbid, FTTH.

 Anyways... as has also been mentioned on this list... I'd expect in 5 
 years
 most service providers are going to charge by usage... so stream that 5mb
 movie all you want for three hours... but you're going to pay me for it.

 Daniel White
 3-dB Networks
 http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:56 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

Others on the list have mentioned the exponential increase in video use.
Those are multi megabit streams ran for hours on end.  I believe someone
reported that NetFlix peaked at 5 megabits.  Why would I deploy gear
that
couldn't handle these next generation services?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:13 PM
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Because speed isn't everything.

 Mesa went head to head with Cable and DSL for a long time... offering
 packages of 7Mb this or that.  Our highest package was 2.5Mb/1Mb.  Yet
we
 still did a very respectful job, because we offered the best customer
 service around, and people liked using a local company.

 I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home?  I
 have
 a 15Mb Business Class Comcast connection at home... it burst to 30Mb.
Yet
 it doesn't feel any faster than a 2Mb connection to me.

 Now if I'm downloading files... :-)

 Daniel White
 3-dB Networks
 http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 11:58 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2 megs is yesterday's news.

U-Verse is 18/1.5
FiOS is 50/20
Charter has 60/5
Comcast has 50/10

2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k.  Charter is 30 times faster than
that.

Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired
world?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with
hundreds
 of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink
and
 some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps
 downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per
 sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market.

 The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in
 wireless networking.

 Best Regards,
 Kevin

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX
 AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread Mike Hammett
Yes, service.  If you can't service their desire to watch NetFlix, they'll 
leave.

I'm glad a few of you see where I'm coming from while the rest of you sit in 
awe.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:37 PM
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Well... I did but I didn't.

 You can have as big of a pipe into the world that you want.  Heck our 
 office
 has 45Mb symmetrical.  But my downloads here are no faster at home because
 of the limits on the servers your downloading from... and heck just the
 internet in general.

 There is a point where no matter how fast your internet connection is...
 it's not going to feel any faster.  Your router will not have enough
 horsepower to handle it... or your computer won't.

 At the end of the day I think people demand service.  I'm talking about 
 say
 90% of the users out there.  Of course the 10% that know tech are going to
 want all of the speed they can get... but do we really need it?

 Anyways... it amazes me how many WISP's only offer 1Mb speed packages...
 their base one being 128Kb.  But in their part of the country that is what
 works.  Wireless in cities saturated with Cable/DSL is probably best left 
 to
 businesses where your competing against T-1 lines and Fiber.

 Daniel White
 3-dB Networks
 http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of David E. Smith
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:20 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

3-dB Networks wrote:
 I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home?

 Now if I'm downloading files.. :-)

I think you just answered your own question.

David Smith
MVN.net




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread Kevin Suitor
kbps Down   kbps Up Total kbps  Oversubscription
kbps Required/Sub   16000   loaded sector   loaded sector   loaded
sector  (months)
 $17.95 Essential   500 500 100020  50
320  $5,744.00   $   68,928.00   $
156,750 27.28935
 $27.95 Essential+  2000800 280020  140
114  $3,194.29   $   38,331.43   $
64,179  20.09168
 $37.95 Performance 70001000800020  400
40   $1,518.00   $   18,216.00   $
30,750  20.25692
 $42.95 MAX10   1   100011000   20  550
29   $1,249.45   $   14,993.45   $
25,841  20.68175
 $72.95 MAX16   16000   100017000   20  850
19   $1,373.18   $   16,478.12   $
21,221  15.45365



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:58 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2 megs is yesterday's news.

U-Verse is 18/1.5
FiOS is 50/20
Charter has 60/5
Comcast has 50/10

2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k.  Charter is 30 times faster than
that.

Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired
world?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with
hundreds
 of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink
and
 some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps
 downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per
 sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market.

 The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in
 wireless networking.

 Best Regards,
 Kevin

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX
 AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector
install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even
see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
 General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145






 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread 3-dB Networks
Mike,

I absolutely see where you are coming from.  Internet usage is changing, and
to keep up with it you have to offer higher throughput... at least at the
base station/AP... to have a reasonable oversubscription rate.

At the same time though I don't see how a vendor can create that magic 100Mb
PtMP wireless product.  Sure you could bond 4 15MHz Channels on the Canopy
400 series and come close... but do you have 60MHz of available spectrum per
AP?

I think what has to happen is to change the business model if you're in a
region where you have to compete head to head with Cable/DSL.  I don't see
the wonder product coming anytime soon... and even if vendor X said it was
coming... it would probably come to late as people are going to demand more
and more.  What is at fault is the as much as you can eat style of providing
bandwidth... once that changes and becomes acceptable the gear out there
today will be able to meet the demand I think.  But until the big boys clamp
down hard on usage... it's hard for a WISP to compete if your clamping down
and they are not. 

Anyways... I think the equipment manufacturers are going to continue to push
themselves to deliver that next best product... because if they don't
someone else will...

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:11 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

Yes, service.  If you can't service their desire to watch NetFlix,
they'll
leave.

I'm glad a few of you see where I'm coming from while the rest of you
sit in
awe.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:37 PM
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Well... I did but I didn't.

 You can have as big of a pipe into the world that you want.  Heck our
 office
 has 45Mb symmetrical.  But my downloads here are no faster at home
because
 of the limits on the servers your downloading from... and heck just
the
 internet in general.

 There is a point where no matter how fast your internet connection
is...
 it's not going to feel any faster.  Your router will not have enough
 horsepower to handle it... or your computer won't.

 At the end of the day I think people demand service.  I'm talking
about
 say
 90% of the users out there.  Of course the 10% that know tech are
going to
 want all of the speed they can get... but do we really need it?

 Anyways... it amazes me how many WISP's only offer 1Mb speed
packages...
 their base one being 128Kb.  But in their part of the country that is
what
 works.  Wireless in cities saturated with Cable/DSL is probably best
left
 to
 businesses where your competing against T-1 lines and Fiber.

 Daniel White
 3-dB Networks
 http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
Behalf Of David E. Smith
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:20 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

3-dB Networks wrote:
 I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home?

 Now if I'm downloading files.. :-)

I think you just answered your own question.

David Smith
MVN.net


--
--

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
--
--


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 --
--
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 --
--

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread Travis Johnson




Because I can service where NONE of those other services exist... and I
have for 10+ years.

Residential users don't need more than 1-2Mbps. Our 512k package is
FASTER than the 3Mbps CableOne service in our area (as tested by ZD
Lab's benchmark program). 

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:

  2 megs is yesterday's news.

U-Verse is 18/1.5
FiOS is 50/20
Charter has 60/5
Comcast has 50/10

2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k.  Charter is 30 times faster than that.

Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Kevin Suitor" ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

  
  
We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds
of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and
some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps
downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per
sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market.

The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in
wireless networking.

Best Regards,
Kevin

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
WiMAX
AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Jeff Booher" jefftho...@fastmail.fm
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
To: "'WISPA General List'" wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



  It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
station,
that only supports 30 subscribers.

-

Jeff


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
  

On


  Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Gino Villarini" g...@aeronetpr.com
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


  
  
Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]

  

On


  
Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to

  

the


  
UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

Take care leon

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:


  I'm looking into this too.

So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
that tower

Anyone have any better ideas?
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Gino Villarini" g...@aeronetpr.com
To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" motor...@wispa.org; "WISPA
  

  

General


  
List"


  wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



  
  
Fellow operators:

Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

Any updates on experiences with:

Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
Airspan ???


Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145


  




  




  

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


  




  


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/







  





Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread reader


insert witty tagline here

- Original Message - 
From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


I think you may be missing a couple of variables in the multivariable
 equation that determines the actual throughput a client can achieve in
 a given time slice. When comparing access systems one must understand
 the differences between the capabilities provided by the systems and
 their result on these variables. You harp on throughput when the
 reality is that ISPs don't sell throughput; they sell capacity. The

Hmmm...  Where are we getting lost?   Why can't we just take what is said at 
face value, for as simple as it was said?

I don't really know about the other users on the list, but I, for one, DO 
understand the concepts of how to share a fixed data stream and why the 
802.11 mac is so poorly suited for ISP use.

Mike Hammett and I both are watching huge amounts of investment being poured 
into WIMAX equipment that's designed to meet last year's bandwidth model and 
asking the same question.When are the WIMAX folks going to realize that 
we do not want to spread 18 mbit across 100 customers, we want to spread 
36mbit across 100 customers.

This is because the consumption per customer continues to climb, and the 
oversubscription levels we USED to use for planning are headed to be far 
inadequate.It USED to be that the 6mbit from an 802.11b access point was 
enough during the peak use hours to keep 27 people happy - because nothing 
they did was latency and bandwidth sensitive.   So the page took 1 second 
longer, nobody cared.Now, 12 of those 27 people want to watch a 1 to 
3mbit HDTV  stream, while the others do stuff.

And no, putting up an AP to serve 100 people with 18 mbit isn't the answer. 
We need that AP to work just as gracefully as it does, but instead of using 
7 mhz, it uses 21, and will be adequate for the day when 25% of our clients 
watch TV over IP, talk on the phone, AND play games and surf...

While the rest let the email run 24/7 and listen to streaming music.

So, while you're arguing semantics here, both Mike and I are looking at this 
saying... Why invest heavily in equipment that is barely adequate for 
present?My whole solar powered sites do not cost $2000 and that 
includes the batteries and solar panels and radios, too.   Currently, we're 
still looking at putting in nothing but 5 ghz micropops because they can 
serve 10-20 people with adequate bandwidth for all, even in the apparent 
future.




 throughput of any given flow is variable based on a variety variables
 including RTT and congestion. Most applications that end users care
 about are TCP based, which means TCP's congestion algorithm comes into
 play most often. One important aspect of a TCP flow is slow start,
 which causes flows initially to have throughput less than the capacity
 of the transport layer. Considering that much of real world traffic
 never has time to get up to full speed, the capacity is rarely full
 utilized. However, when multiple flows operate on the same access
 layer at the same time all slow starting you are able get more
 efficient use of your capacity. Unfortunately, most end users simply
 do not have enough flows operating at the same time lasting long
 enough to fully utilize all of their capacity. The unused capacity is
 what allows for oversubscription. In other words, by sharing the
 capacity across a large enough number of end users you can get more
 efficient utilization of the overall available capacity.

 Now the above may be nothing new to most of us, but how easily we
 forget that we sell capacity and leverage our client's inability to
 use all of that capacity because their throughput rarely achieves what
 is available capacity wise. This means we need access systems that
 very efficiently multiplex flows from an arbitrary number of end
 users. It is not about getting more throughput than the overall
 capacity of the system; it is about efficiently delivery the maximum
 available throughput when the end user actually needs it.

 Your basic 802.11 wireless system does not efficiently share capacity
 across multiple stations, which results in stranded capacity. Compare
 this to a WiMAX system that is extremely efficient at sharing capacity
 across all connected stations. No system can allow the aggregate
 throughput of all stations to exceed the total capacity of the system,
 which would violate the law of physics.

Obviously.   But that's EXACTLY what two people just said on this list. 
That they do.   That's what I'm responding to.


 In the real world, end users can't use all of their capacity all of
 the time. Therefore, the more efficiently you can share that capacity
 across multiple users the more users you can support on a given system
 without negatively impacting their throughput when they need

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread Matt Liotta

On Mar 20, 2009, at 3:50 PM, rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:

 Mike Hammett and I both are watching huge amounts of investment  
 being poured
 into WIMAX equipment that's designed to meet last year's bandwidth  
 model and
 asking the same question.When are the WIMAX folks going to  
 realize that
 we do not want to spread 18 mbit across 100 customers, we want to  
 spread
 36mbit across 100 customers.

I don't know any company investing huge amounts into WiMAX for last  
year's bandwidth model. For example, our WiMAX equipment is competing  
against NxDS1, which is this year's and next year's bandwidth model  
for every reasonably sized SMB. Go ahead and argue again that you  
don't sell to the same business or residential markets that those of  
us who have invested in WiMAX sell to. We don't want your market and  
we don't want the WiMAX vendors focusing on your market. We want them  
focusing on our market and we are putting our money where are mouth is  
ensuring the WiMAX vendors do focus on our market.

The sum up the thread you want the radio vendors to make a product to  
enable your business model to thrive today and into the future.  
Whereas today's WiMAX operators have created a business model to  
thrive today and into the future based upon currently available  
products.

-Matt




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread Tom DeReggi

Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired
world?

Depends who you are referring by stating wireless world.

The WISP providers are surely NOT happy with that.  They are just 
realistic about what they have available.
And they are creative enough to understand that there are still markets 
willing to deal with that, because WISPs have other things to offer of equal 
or greater value, to creat a WISP market.

I'm also not sure the public is happy with that. I haven't heard one 
public advocate at Broadband public meetings advocating Please give money 
to wireless companies so we can have slower service.  Wireless will be a 
part of Stimulus grants because... We can argue we'll get you service 
sooner, and we'll stretch the dollar further to serve more areas and people, 
so less people get left without being served, and more people get better 
service than they currently have. In the long run, with Wireless, consumers 
will have to compromise for less, in exchange for the instant gratification 
that can be gained today.

WISPs deal with it because comparatively they are either broke, lazy, or 
impatient, in order to meet demand. Or I should say, don't want to end up 
broke.
I'm not meaning to be derogatory in using those terms. What I mean is...

Sure we'd all like to lay fiber.  We just don't want to wait 20 years for an 
ROI (impatient :-). We don't have millions and billions of Finance capabilty 
upfront (broke :-).
We don't want to spend years trying to get permits and negotiating easements 
with entities that care less about advancing our cause quickly (lazy :-).
The truth is Monopolies are willing to do all these things.  But they also 
grudgingly backout of their committments and delay as long as possible, 
because honestly they don't want to do it either, and are even more lazy, 
and clearly have all the time in the world, without competition forcing them 
to work harder.

The truth is, Wireless providers DO NEED faster equipment.  And the Truth 
is, we really aren't lazy. (I was just kidding before :-)

So WiMax vendors,  Make us faster equipment!!! That we can Afford 
today!!!

There is a lot of grant money comming up this year. Here is your chance for 
volume orders, from the WISP market. Give us a reason to stay wireless 
providers and not to become a fiber provider. Backhaul transport providers 
are doing their part. But I think last mile manufacturers still have to do a 
better job. But more importantly give grant Decission makers a reason to 
favor wireless. Give them speeds that public advocates will be excited 
about. And give us price points that will let us do microcells to accomplish 
top penetration.  Wimax isn;t competing against wifi anymore, they are 
competing against fiber. I admit, Its a tall order to fill.  But I think 
clever innovators should be able to fill it.

$7 billion is not a lot to come anywhere close to helping All Americans 
get next generation broadband.  But $7 billion is a hech of a lot of money 
to inject into an ISP manufacturer industry. Lets just say $1 billion of it 
would go to Wireless infrastructure. Thats a lot of gear.  Lets start 
getting creative with those volume order low price offers? How low can you 
go to get a peice of that $billion?

Manufacturers, Let us know! The industry is writing their grant proposals 
now.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Folks,

 I seem to have too much time on my hands since I'm on vacation.  This
 thread prompted me to put a quick back of the napkin ROI analysis
 together to see which service options I'd want to be pushing on the
 market.

 What I did was review Bell Canada's service offer - why, because they
 offer Wireless, DSL  Fiber based Internet services in competition to
 Rogers Cable and Cogeco Cable (ON) and Videotron and Cogeco Cable(Qc)
 along with a variety of WISPs, satellite providers, in other words the
 entire spectrum of competition.  As many of you may know Canada ranks in
 the top 10 worldwide for broadband penetration according to the latest
 OECD rankings with 23.8% BB penetration, the United States ranked 15th
 with 19.6% penetration.

 I opted not to include their wireless offer in the model.  For the
 record their 512/512 Portable Internet service using an AC powered
 indoor CPE as the terminal device selling for $17.95/month; they offer a
 2000/800 Rural service with either indoor or outdoor CPE beginning at
 $40/month; and a 3000/1000 Portable using the same indoor CPE as in the
 first offer.  All CPE are sold at $99 to the customer.

 What I've done is outline the UL/DL speeds, cost per month, and a
 sliding scale of oversubscription rates (actual rate used by Bell seems
 to be between 20 and 40 based upon historical data

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread Jeff Booher
I think it was clarified earlier that with a wider channel you get a much
greater reduction in effective range as well as increasing the required CINR
to achieve maximum modulation. So while it could be made ( and I know of one
company that did make a 20mhz channel wide wimax D product ) the question
is the logic of making it. Now with 802.16e, you can see more throughput,
but its in the downlink, not the uplink. Bottom line is- No one is going to
make a 40mhz wimax product, because its going to work @ peak modulation for
like, maybe a mile or 2?

-

Jeff
 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:09 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

If I don't expect it, why will the manufacturers make it?

They seem to be happy to court the guy offering 1 megabit out of a $8k radio
when anything made in the past 8 years could do the same thing.

Do I expect to take Joe mainstream away from Comcast?  No.  Do I want to be
seen as the dialup to their superhighway?  Definitely not.

I plan to switch to usage based billing, but I also want a system that will
supply the demand.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:01 PM
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Well the Canopy 430 series is going to do 42Mbps... but even then how well
 is that going to work... considering your clients are going to have to be
 within 2 miles.

 I don't think you should have a realistic expectation that wireless (in a
 point to multipoint environment) is going to match the next generation
 demand.  You can pray and hope... but I think in many ways the laws of
 physics are going to prevent wireless from competing with DSL/Cable... and
 god forbid, FTTH.

 Anyways... as has also been mentioned on this list... I'd expect in 5 
 years
 most service providers are going to charge by usage... so stream that 5mb
 movie all you want for three hours... but you're going to pay me for it.

 Daniel White
 3-dB Networks
 http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:56 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

Others on the list have mentioned the exponential increase in video use.
Those are multi megabit streams ran for hours on end.  I believe someone
reported that NetFlix peaked at 5 megabits.  Why would I deploy gear
that
couldn't handle these next generation services?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:13 PM
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Because speed isn't everything.

 Mesa went head to head with Cable and DSL for a long time... offering
 packages of 7Mb this or that.  Our highest package was 2.5Mb/1Mb.  Yet
we
 still did a very respectful job, because we offered the best customer
 service around, and people liked using a local company.

 I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home?  I
 have
 a 15Mb Business Class Comcast connection at home... it burst to 30Mb.
Yet
 it doesn't feel any faster than a 2Mb connection to me.

 Now if I'm downloading files... :-)

 Daniel White
 3-dB Networks
 http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 11:58 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2 megs is yesterday's news.

U-Verse is 18/1.5
FiOS is 50/20
Charter has 60/5
Comcast has 50/10

2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k.  Charter is 30 times faster than
that.

Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired
world?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with
hundreds
 of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink
and
 some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps
 downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per
 sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market.

 The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in
 wireless networking.

 Best Regards,
 Kevin

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread Blair Davis




Some simple numbers...

$1700/month for 10Mbits. Much better than the $600 per 1.54Mbit I was
paying out here.

1Mbit per Netflix or IPTV user.

$170 cost of bandwidth per user.

Users out here are not going to pay that. Period.

The problem, out in the rural areas at least, is not delivering the
bandwidth, it is getting it at a reasonable cost.

These apps use an order of magnitude more bandwidth than the standard
web browsing and email apps we are used to. But the users don't and
won't understand that.

If you went to buy a new TV and it used an order of magnitude more
power to run it, your electric bill would soon show you the error of
your ways.

The only real solution to this problem is to move to per bit pricing.
That way, users will see the cost of what they are doing and adjust
their usage to what they are willing to pay for.

Netflix, IPTV and other apps like them simply shift the their cost of
doing business to us. Unless we either refuse to support these apps,
or begin billing our users for them, it will kill us.

The cable and dsl providers are starting to figure this out.

Blair



Tom DeReggi wrote:

  
Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired
world?

  
  
Depends who you are referring by stating "wireless world".

The WISP providers are surely NOT "happy" with that.  They are just 
realistic about what they have available.
And they are creative enough to understand that there are still markets 
willing to deal with that, because WISPs have other things to offer of equal 
or greater value, to creat a WISP market.

I'm also not sure the public is "happy" with that. I haven't heard one 
public advocate at Broadband public meetings advocating "Please give money 
to wireless companies so we can have slower service".  Wireless will be a 
part of Stimulus grants because... We can argue we'll get you service 
sooner, and we'll stretch the dollar further to serve more areas and people, 
so less people get left without being served, and more people get better 
service than they currently have. In the long run, with Wireless, consumers 
will have to compromise for less, in exchange for the instant gratification 
that can be gained today.

WISPs deal with it because comparatively they are either broke, lazy, or 
impatient, in order to meet demand. Or I should say, don't want to end up 
broke.
I'm not meaning to be derogatory in using those terms. What I mean is...

Sure we'd all like to lay fiber.  We just don't want to wait 20 years for an 
ROI (impatient :-). We don't have millions and billions of Finance capabilty 
upfront (broke :-).
We don't want to spend years trying to get permits and negotiating easements 
with entities that care less about advancing our cause quickly (lazy :-).
The truth is Monopolies are willing to do all these things.  But they also 
grudgingly backout of their committments and delay as long as possible, 
because honestly they don't want to do it either, and are even more lazy, 
and clearly have all the time in the world, without competition forcing them 
to work harder.

The truth is, Wireless providers DO NEED faster equipment.  And the Truth 
is, we really aren't "lazy". (I was just kidding before :-)

So WiMax vendors,  Make us faster equipment!!! That we can Afford 
today!!!

There is a lot of grant money comming up this year. Here is your chance for 
volume orders, from the WISP market. Give us a reason to stay wireless 
providers and not to become a fiber provider. Backhaul transport providers 
are doing their part. But I think last mile manufacturers still have to do a 
better job. But more importantly give grant Decission makers a reason to 
favor wireless. Give them speeds that public advocates will be excited 
about. And give us price points that will let us do microcells to accomplish 
top penetration.  Wimax isn;t competing against wifi anymore, they are 
competing against fiber. I admit, Its a tall order to fill.  But I think 
clever innovators should be able to fill it.

$7 billion is not a lot to come anywhere close to helping "All" Americans 
get next generation broadband.  But $7 billion is a hech of a lot of money 
to inject into an ISP manufacturer industry. Lets just say $1 billion of it 
would go to Wireless infrastructure. Thats a lot of gear.  Lets start 
getting creative with those volume order low price offers? How low can you 
go to get a peice of that $billion?

Manufacturers, Let us know! The industry is writing their grant proposals 
now.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Kevin Suitor" ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


  
  
Folks,

I seem to have too much time on my hands since I'm on vacation.  This
thread prompted

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread sales
Um. Amen !


-Original Message-
From: Blair Davis the...@wmwisp.net
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 8:11 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

Some simple numbers...

$1700/month for 10Mbits.  Much better than the $600 per 1.54Mbit I was paying 
out here.

1Mbit per Netflix or IPTV user.

$170 cost of bandwidth per user.

Users out here are not going to pay that.  Period.

The problem, out in the rural areas at least, is not delivering the bandwidth, 
it is getting it at a reasonable cost.

These apps use an order of magnitude more bandwidth than the standard web 
browsing and email apps we are used to.  But the users don't and won't 
understand that.

If you went to buy a new TV and it used an order of magnitude more power to run 
it, your electric bill would soon show you the error of your ways.

The only real solution to this problem is to move to per bit pricing.  That 
way, users will see the cost of what they are doing and adjust their usage to 
what they are willing to pay for.

Netflix, IPTV and other apps like them simply shift the their cost of doing 
business to us.  Unless we either refuse to support these apps, or begin 
billing our users for them, it will kill us.

The cable and dsl providers are starting to figure this out.

Blair



Tom DeReggi wrote: 
Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired
world?

Depends who you are referring by stating wireless world.

The WISP providers are surely NOT happy with that.  They are just 
realistic about what they have available.
And they are creative enough to understand that there are still markets 
willing to deal with that, because WISPs have other things to offer of equal 
or greater value, to creat a WISP market.

I'm also not sure the public is happy with that. I haven't heard one 
public advocate at Broadband public meetings advocating Please give money 
to wireless companies so we can have slower service.  Wireless will be a 
part of Stimulus grants because... We can argue we'll get you service 
sooner, and we'll stretch the dollar further to serve more areas and people, 
so less people get left without being served, and more people get better 
service than they currently have. In the long run, with Wireless, consumers 
will have to compromise for less, in exchange for the instant gratification 
that can be gained today.

WISPs deal with it because comparatively they are either broke, lazy, or 
impatient, in order to meet demand. Or I should say, don't want to end up 
broke.
I'm not meaning to be derogatory in using those terms. What I mean is...

Sure we'd all like to lay fiber.  We just don't want to wait 20 years for an 
ROI (impatient :-). We don't have millions and billions of Finance capabilty 
upfront (broke :-).
We don't want to spend years trying to get permits and negotiating easements 
with entities that care less about advancing our cause quickly (lazy :-).
The truth is Monopolies are willing to do all these things.  But they also 
grudgingly backout of their committments and delay as long as possible, 
because honestly they don't want to do it either, and are even more lazy, 
and clearly have all the time in the world, without competition forcing them 
to work harder.

The truth is, Wireless providers DO NEED faster equipment.  And the Truth 
is, we really aren't lazy. (I was just kidding before :-)

So WiMax vendors,  Make us faster equipment!!! That we can Afford 
today!!!

There is a lot of grant money comming up this year. Here is your chance for 
volume orders, from the WISP market. Give us a reason to stay wireless 
providers and not to become a fiber provider. Backhaul transport providers 
are doing their part. But I think last mile manufacturers still have to do a 
better job. But more importantly give grant Decission makers a reason to 
favor wireless. Give them speeds that public advocates will be excited 
about. And give us price points that will let us do microcells to accomplish 
top penetration.  Wimax isn;t competing against wifi anymore, they are 
competing against fiber. I admit, Its a tall order to fill.  But I think 
clever innovators should be able to fill it.

$7 billion is not a lot to come anywhere close to helping All Americans 
get next generation broadband.  But $7 billion is a hech of a lot of money 
to inject into an ISP manufacturer industry. Lets just say $1 billion of it 
would go to Wireless infrastructure. Thats a lot of gear.  Lets start 
getting creative with those volume order low price offers? How low can you 
go to get a peice of that $billion?

Manufacturers, Let us know! The industry is writing their grant proposals 
now.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


  
Folks,

I

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread George Rogato
 
 now.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - 
 From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:23 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


   
 Folks,

 I seem to have too much time on my hands since I'm on vacation.  This
 thread prompted me to put a quick back of the napkin ROI analysis
 together to see which service options I'd want to be pushing on the
 market.

 What I did was review Bell Canada's service offer - why, because they
 offer Wireless, DSL  Fiber based Internet services in competition to
 Rogers Cable and Cogeco Cable (ON) and Videotron and Cogeco Cable(Qc)
 along with a variety of WISPs, satellite providers, in other words the
 entire spectrum of competition.  As many of you may know Canada ranks in
 the top 10 worldwide for broadband penetration according to the latest
 OECD rankings with 23.8% BB penetration, the United States ranked 15th
 with 19.6% penetration.

 I opted not to include their wireless offer in the model.  For the
 record their 512/512 Portable Internet service using an AC powered
 indoor CPE as the terminal device selling for $17.95/month; they offer a
 2000/800 Rural service with either indoor or outdoor CPE beginning at
 $40/month; and a 3000/1000 Portable using the same indoor CPE as in the
 first offer.  All CPE are sold at $99 to the customer.

 What I've done is outline the UL/DL speeds, cost per month, and a
 sliding scale of oversubscription rates (actual rate used by Bell seems
 to be between 20 and 40 based upon historical data depending on take-up
 rate in an area.  This then generates a kbps / subscriber figure which
 was then divided into the capacity per sector (I'm using the average
 real world sector capacity from our worldwide base of 7 MHz RedMAX
 customers as reported by our Redline Management Suite application that
 we use to monitor production networks under a professional services
 agreement).  I then divided this by the avg kbps/client to calculate the
 maximum subscribers per sector.  I then took the peak subs multiplied by
 monthly ARPU to calculate the monthly and annual peak revenue stream per
 sector.  The required CAPEX per sector was calculated based upon a
 sector controller, shared common costs (GPS, UPS, tower climb, and other
 site acquisition costs - WW avg.) and the cost of the number of CPE
 required by the peak subscriber calculation.  The ROI in months is the
 CAPEX divided by the monthly ARPU.

 I've highlighted the sweet spot avg 18 month ROI lines in each model
 that indicates with between 19 and 229 subscribers, depending upon the
 SLA you'd be able to achieve and ROI acceptable to almost any financier
 using WiMAX.

 Cheers!
 Kevin


 NOTE: Modeled upon Bell Canada's Internet Service offer when using a
 WiMAX BTS to deliver the stated SLAs (all are best effort, residential
 services on a 7 MHz channel with mix of LOS and NLOS customers):

 Monthly Max Subs per
 Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
 ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
 kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded
 sector (months)
 $17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 40 25
 640 $  11,488.00 $ 137,856.00 $
 300,750 26.17949
 $27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 40 70
 229 $6,388.57 $   76,662.86 $
 115,607 18.09593
 $37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 40 200
 80 $3,036.00 $   36,432.00 $
 48,750 16.05731
 $42.95 MAX10 1 1000 11000 40 275
 58 $2,498.91 $   29,986.91 $
 38,932 15.57953
 $72.95 MAX16 16000 1000 17000 40 425
 38 $2,746.35 $   32,956.24 $
 29,691 10.81113


 Monthly Max Subs per
 Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
 ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
 kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded
 sector (months)
 $17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 30 33
 480 $8,616.00 $ 103,392.00 $
 228,750 26.54944
 $27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 30 93
 171 $4,791.43 $   57,497.14 $
 89,893 18.76118
 $37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 30 267
 60 $2,277.00 $   27,324.00 $
 39,750 17.45718
 $42.95 MAX10 1 1000 11000 30 367
 44 $1,874.18 $   22,490.18 $
 32,386 17.28027
 $72.95 MAX16 16000 1000 17000 30 567
 28 $2,059.76 $   24,717.18 $
 25,456 12.35864


 Monthly Max Subs per
 Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
 ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
 kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded
 sector (months)
 $17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 20 50
 320 $5,744.00 $   68,928.00 $
 156,750 27.28935
 $27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 20 140
 114 $3,194.29 $   38,331.43 $
 64,179 20.09168
 $37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 20 400
 40

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
How do you want to count that Mike?

Speed alone isn't adequate.  If speed alone made a good purchase we'd all be 
driving ZR1 corvettes and Rouch Mustangs etc.

Figure in cost per subscriber.

Compute what people REALLY do with their internet not just how fast they can 
do it etc.

Wireless is the PERFECT technology for a lot of customers.

And don't keep shooting yourself in the foot.  FIOS is also no good because 
you and I won't ever be able to install enough of it to make the kind of 
living that wireless can give us.

If it were for wired solutions only none of us would have the phone services 
we have now (good landline and cell phone).  Many would also not have fast 
internet connections.

Don't go getting tunnel vision.

marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


2 megs is yesterday's news.

 U-Verse is 18/1.5
 FiOS is 50/20
 Charter has 60/5
 Comcast has 50/10

 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k.  Charter is 30 times faster than that.

 Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired 
 world?




 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
 Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds
 of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and
 some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps
 downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per
 sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market.

 The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in
 wireless networking.

 Best Regards,
 Kevin

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX
 AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
 General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145




 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread Travis Johnson
t 
getting creative with those volume order low price offers? How low can you 
go to get a peice of that $billion?

Manufacturers, Let us know! The industry is writing their grant proposals 
now.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Kevin Suitor" ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


  
  
  
Folks,

I seem to have too much time on my hands since I'm on vacation.  This
thread prompted me to put a quick back of the napkin ROI analysis
together to see which service options I'd want to be pushing on the
market.

What I did was review Bell Canada's service offer - why, because they
offer Wireless, DSL  Fiber based Internet services in competition to
Rogers Cable and Cogeco Cable (ON) and Videotron and Cogeco Cable(Qc)
along with a variety of WISPs, satellite providers, in other words the
entire spectrum of competition.  As many of you may know Canada ranks in
the top 10 worldwide for broadband penetration according to the latest
OECD rankings with 23.8% BB penetration, the United States ranked 15th
with 19.6% penetration.

I opted not to include their wireless offer in the model.  For the
record their 512/512 Portable Internet service using an AC powered
indoor CPE as the terminal device selling for $17.95/month; they offer a
2000/800 Rural service with either indoor or outdoor CPE beginning at
$40/month; and a 3000/1000 Portable using the same indoor CPE as in the
first offer.  All CPE are sold at $99 to the customer.

What I've done is outline the UL/DL speeds, cost per month, and a
sliding scale of oversubscription rates (actual rate used by Bell seems
to be between 20 and 40 based upon historical data depending on take-up
rate in an area.  This then generates a kbps / subscriber figure which
was then divided into the capacity per sector (I'm using the average
real world sector capacity from our worldwide base of 7 MHz RedMAX
customers as reported by our Redline Management Suite application that
we use to monitor production networks under a professional services
agreement).  I then divided this by the avg kbps/client to calculate the
maximum subscribers per sector.  I then took the peak subs multiplied by
monthly ARPU to calculate the monthly and annual peak revenue stream per
sector.  The required CAPEX per sector was calculated based upon a
sector controller, shared common costs (GPS, UPS, tower climb, and other
site acquisition costs - WW avg.) and the cost of the number of CPE
required by the peak subscriber calculation.  The ROI in months is the
CAPEX divided by the monthly ARPU.

I've highlighted the sweet spot avg 18 month ROI lines in each model
that indicates with between 19 and 229 subscribers, depending upon the
SLA you'd be able to achieve and ROI acceptable to almost any financier
using WiMAX.

Cheers!
Kevin


NOTE: Modeled upon Bell Canada's Internet Service offer when using a
WiMAX BTS to deliver the stated SLAs (all are best effort, residential
services on a 7 MHz channel with mix of LOS and NLOS customers):

Monthly Max Subs per
Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded
sector (months)
$17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 40 25
640 $  11,488.00 $ 137,856.00 $
300,750 26.17949
$27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 40 70
229 $6,388.57 $   76,662.86 $
115,607 18.09593
$37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 40 200
80 $3,036.00 $   36,432.00 $
48,750 16.05731
$42.95 MAX10 1 1000 11000 40 275
58 $2,498.91 $   29,986.91 $
38,932 15.57953
$72.95 MAX16 16000 1000 17000 40 425
38 $2,746.35 $   32,956.24 $
29,691 10.81113


Monthly Max Subs per
Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded
sector (months)
$17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 30 33
480 $8,616.00 $ 103,392.00 $
228,750 26.54944
$27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 30 93
171 $4,791.43 $   57,497.14 $
89,893 18.76118
$37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 30 267
60 $2,277.00 $   27,324.00 $
39,750 17.45718
$42.95 MAX10 1 1000 11000 30 367
44 $1,874.18 $   22,490.18 $
32,386 17.28027
$72.95 MAX16 16000 1000 17000 30 567
28 $2,059.76 $   24,717.18 $
25,456 12.35864


Monthly Max Subs per
Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded
sector (months)
$17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 20 50
320 $5,744.00 $   68,928.00 $
156,750 27.28935
$27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread George Rogato
 manufacturers still have to do 
 a 
 better job. But more importantly give grant Decission makers a reason to 
 favor wireless. Give them speeds that public advocates will be excited 
 about. And give us price points that will let us do microcells to 
 accomplish 
 top penetration.  Wimax isn;t competing against wifi anymore, they are 
 competing against fiber. I admit, Its a tall order to fill.  But I think 
 clever innovators should be able to fill it.

 $7 billion is not a lot to come anywhere close to helping All Americans 
 get next generation broadband.  But $7 billion is a hech of a lot of money 
 to inject into an ISP manufacturer industry. Lets just say $1 billion of 
 it 
 would go to Wireless infrastructure. Thats a lot of gear.  Lets start 
 getting creative with those volume order low price offers? How low can you 
 go to get a peice of that $billion?

 Manufacturers, Let us know! The industry is writing their grant proposals 
 now.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - 
 From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:23 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


   
   
 Folks,

 I seem to have too much time on my hands since I'm on vacation.  This
 thread prompted me to put a quick back of the napkin ROI analysis
 together to see which service options I'd want to be pushing on the
 market.

 What I did was review Bell Canada's service offer - why, because they
 offer Wireless, DSL  Fiber based Internet services in competition to
 Rogers Cable and Cogeco Cable (ON) and Videotron and Cogeco Cable(Qc)
 along with a variety of WISPs, satellite providers, in other words the
 entire spectrum of competition.  As many of you may know Canada ranks in
 the top 10 worldwide for broadband penetration according to the latest
 OECD rankings with 23.8% BB penetration, the United States ranked 15th
 with 19.6% penetration.

 I opted not to include their wireless offer in the model.  For the
 record their 512/512 Portable Internet service using an AC powered
 indoor CPE as the terminal device selling for $17.95/month; they offer a
 2000/800 Rural service with either indoor or outdoor CPE beginning at
 $40/month; and a 3000/1000 Portable using the same indoor CPE as in the
 first offer.  All CPE are sold at $99 to the customer.

 What I've done is outline the UL/DL speeds, cost per month, and a
 sliding scale of oversubscription rates (actual rate used by Bell seems
 to be between 20 and 40 based upon historical data depending on take-up
 rate in an area.  This then generates a kbps / subscriber figure which
 was then divided into the capacity per sector (I'm using the average
 real world sector capacity from our worldwide base of 7 MHz RedMAX
 customers as reported by our Redline Management Suite application that
 we use to monitor production networks under a professional services
 agreement).  I then divided this by the avg kbps/client to calculate the
 maximum subscribers per sector.  I then took the peak subs multiplied by
 monthly ARPU to calculate the monthly and annual peak revenue stream per
 sector.  The required CAPEX per sector was calculated based upon a
 sector controller, shared common costs (GPS, UPS, tower climb, and other
 site acquisition costs - WW avg.) and the cost of the number of CPE
 required by the peak subscriber calculation.  The ROI in months is the
 CAPEX divided by the monthly ARPU.

 I've highlighted the sweet spot avg 18 month ROI lines in each model
 that indicates with between 19 and 229 subscribers, depending upon the
 SLA you'd be able to achieve and ROI acceptable to almost any financier
 using WiMAX.

 Cheers!
 Kevin


 NOTE: Modeled upon Bell Canada's Internet Service offer when using a
 WiMAX BTS to deliver the stated SLAs (all are best effort, residential
 services on a 7 MHz channel with mix of LOS and NLOS customers):

 Monthly Max Subs per
 Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
 ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
 kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded
 sector (months)
 $17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 40 25
 640 $  11,488.00 $ 137,856.00 $
 300,750 26.17949
 $27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 40 70
 229 $6,388.57 $   76,662.86 $
 115,607 18.09593
 $37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 40 200
 80 $3,036.00 $   36,432.00 $
 48,750 16.05731
 $42.95 MAX10 1 1000 11000 40 275
 58 $2,498.91 $   29,986.91 $
 38,932 15.57953
 $72.95 MAX16 16000 1000 17000 40 425
 38 $2,746.35 $   32,956.24 $
 29,691 10.81113


 Monthly Max Subs per
 Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
 ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
 kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded
 sector (months)
 $17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 30 33
 480 $8,616.00

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread Blair Davis
 offers? How low can you 
go to get a peice of that $billion?

Manufacturers, Let us know! The industry is writing their grant proposals 
now.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Kevin Suitor" ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


  
  
  
Folks,

I seem to have too much time on my hands since I'm on vacation.  This
thread prompted me to put a quick back of the napkin ROI analysis
together to see which service options I'd want to be pushing on the
market.

What I did was review Bell Canada's service offer - why, because they
offer Wireless, DSL  Fiber based Internet services in competition to
Rogers Cable and Cogeco Cable (ON) and Videotron and Cogeco Cable(Qc)
along with a variety of WISPs, satellite providers, in other words the
entire spectrum of competition.  As many of you may know Canada ranks in
the top 10 worldwide for broadband penetration according to the latest
OECD rankings with 23.8% BB penetration, the United States ranked 15th
with 19.6% penetration.

I opted not to include their wireless offer in the model.  For the
record their 512/512 Portable Internet service using an AC powered
indoor CPE as the terminal device selling for $17.95/month; they offer a
2000/800 Rural service with either indoor or outdoor CPE beginning at
$40/month; and a 3000/1000 Portable using the same indoor CPE as in the
first offer.  All CPE are sold at $99 to the customer.

What I've done is outline the UL/DL speeds, cost per month, and a
sliding scale of oversubscription rates (actual rate used by Bell seems
to be between 20 and 40 based upon historical data depending on take-up
rate in an area.  This then generates a kbps / subscriber figure which
was then divided into the capacity per sector (I'm using the average
real world sector capacity from our worldwide base of 7 MHz RedMAX
customers as reported by our Redline Management Suite application that
we use to monitor production networks under a professional services
agreement).  I then divided this by the avg kbps/client to calculate the
maximum subscribers per sector.  I then took the peak subs multiplied by
monthly ARPU to calculate the monthly and annual peak revenue stream per
sector.  The required CAPEX per sector was calculated based upon a
sector controller, shared common costs (GPS, UPS, tower climb, and other
site acquisition costs - WW avg.) and the cost of the number of CPE
required by the peak subscriber calculation.  The ROI in months is the
CAPEX divided by the monthly ARPU.

I've highlighted the sweet spot avg 18 month ROI lines in each model
that indicates with between 19 and 229 subscribers, depending upon the
SLA you'd be able to achieve and ROI acceptable to almost any financier
using WiMAX.

Cheers!
Kevin


NOTE: Modeled upon Bell Canada's Internet Service offer when using a
WiMAX BTS to deliver the stated SLAs (all are best effort, residential
services on a 7 MHz channel with mix of LOS and NLOS customers):

Monthly Max Subs per
Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded
sector (months)
$17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 40 25
640 $  11,488.00 $ 137,856.00 $
300,750 26.17949
$27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 40 70
229 $6,388.57 $   76,662.86 $
115,607 18.09593
$37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 40 200
80 $3,036.00 $   36,432.00 $
48,750 16.05731
$42.95 MAX10 1 1000 11000 40 275
58 $2,498.91 $   29,986.91 $
38,932 15.57953
$72.95 MAX16 16000 1000 17000 40 425
38 $2,746.35 $   32,956.24 $
29,691 10.81113


Monthly Max Subs per
Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded
sector (months)
$17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 30 33
480 $8,616.00 $ 103,392.00 $
228,750 26.54944
$27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 30 93
171 $4,791.43 $   57,497.14 $
89,893 18.76118
$37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 30 267
60 $2,277.00 $   27,324.00 $
39,750 17.45718
$42.95 MAX10 1 1000 11000 30 367
44 $1,874.18 $   22,490.18 $
32,386 17.28027
$72.95 MAX16 16000 1000 17000 30 567
28 $2,059.76 $   24,717.18 $
25,456 12.35864


Monthly Max Subs per
Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded
sector (months)
$17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 20 50
320 $5,744.00 $   68,928.00 $
156,750 27.28935
$27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 20 140
114 $3,194.29 $   38,331.43 $
64,17

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-20 Thread Travis Johnson
.

The truth is, Wireless providers DO NEED faster equipment.  And the Truth 
is, we really aren't "lazy". (I was just kidding before :-)

So WiMax vendors,  Make us faster equipment!!! That we can Afford 
today!!!

There is a lot of grant money comming up this year. Here is your chance for 
volume orders, from the WISP market. Give us a reason to stay wireless 
providers and not to become a fiber provider. Backhaul transport providers 
are doing their part. But I think last mile manufacturers still have to do a 
better job. But more importantly give grant Decission makers a reason to 
favor wireless. Give them speeds that public advocates will be excited 
about. And give us price points that will let us do microcells to accomplish 
top penetration.  Wimax isn;t competing against wifi anymore, they are 
competing against fiber. I admit, Its a tall order to fill.  But I think 
clever innovators should be able to fill it.

$7 billion is not a lot to come anywhere close to helping "All" Americans 
get next generation broadband.  But $7 billion is a hech of a lot of money 
to inject into an ISP manufacturer industry. Lets just say $1 billion of it 
would go to Wireless infrastructure. Thats a lot of gear.  Lets start 
getting creative with those volume order low price offers? How low can you 
go to get a peice of that $billion?

Manufacturers, Let us know! The industry is writing their grant proposals 
now.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Kevin Suitor" ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


  
  
  
  
Folks,

I seem to have too much time on my hands since I'm on vacation.  This
thread prompted me to put a quick back of the napkin ROI analysis
together to see which service options I'd want to be pushing on the
market.

What I did was review Bell Canada's service offer - why, because they
offer Wireless, DSL  Fiber based Internet services in competition to
Rogers Cable and Cogeco Cable (ON) and Videotron and Cogeco Cable(Qc)
along with a variety of WISPs, satellite providers, in other words the
entire spectrum of competition.  As many of you may know Canada ranks in
the top 10 worldwide for broadband penetration according to the latest
OECD rankings with 23.8% BB penetration, the United States ranked 15th
with 19.6% penetration.

I opted not to include their wireless offer in the model.  For the
record their 512/512 Portable Internet service using an AC powered
indoor CPE as the terminal device selling for $17.95/month; they offer a
2000/800 Rural service with either indoor or outdoor CPE beginning at
$40/month; and a 3000/1000 Portable using the same indoor CPE as in the
first offer.  All CPE are sold at $99 to the customer.

What I've done is outline the UL/DL speeds, cost per month, and a
sliding scale of oversubscription rates (actual rate used by Bell seems
to be between 20 and 40 based upon historical data depending on take-up
rate in an area.  This then generates a kbps / subscriber figure which
was then divided into the capacity per sector (I'm using the average
real world sector capacity from our worldwide base of 7 MHz RedMAX
customers as reported by our Redline Management Suite application that
we use to monitor production networks under a professional services
agreement).  I then divided this by the avg kbps/client to calculate the
maximum subscribers per sector.  I then took the peak subs multiplied by
monthly ARPU to calculate the monthly and annual peak revenue stream per
sector.  The required CAPEX per sector was calculated based upon a
sector controller, shared common costs (GPS, UPS, tower climb, and other
site acquisition costs - WW avg.) and the cost of the number of CPE
required by the peak subscriber calculation.  The ROI in months is the
CAPEX divided by the monthly ARPU.

I've highlighted the sweet spot avg 18 month ROI lines in each model
that indicates with between 19 and 229 subscribers, depending upon the
SLA you'd be able to achieve and ROI acceptable to almost any financier
using WiMAX.

Cheers!
Kevin


NOTE: Modeled upon Bell Canada's Internet Service offer when using a
WiMAX BTS to deliver the stated SLAs (all are best effort, residential
services on a 7 MHz channel with mix of LOS and NLOS customers):

Monthly Max Subs per
Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded
sector (months)
$17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 40 25
640 $  11,488.00 $ 137,856.00 $
300,750 26.17949
$27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 40 70
229 $6,388.57 $   76,662.86 $
115,607 18.09593
$37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 40 200
80 $3,036.00 $   36,432.00 $
48,750 16.05731
$ 

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Leon D. Zetekoff, NCE
* Marlon K. Schafer wrote, On 3/18/2009 10:32 PM:
 Thanks Leon,
   
You;re welcome Marlon...
 Do you have a contact person?
   
Harold Bledsoe he's a WISPA member vendor.
 Also, what ranges and speeds are people seeing with 3650?
   
I don;t know as I'm not with Bluemont anymore and we/I were looking at 
all the 3650 stuff last year. Depends on the channel size too.
 Anyone worried about self inflicted interneference?  There is only 50mhz of 
 spectrum right?
   
I don't think that should be an issue.

Let me know how it goes.

Leon
 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: Leon Zetekoff wa4...@arrl.net
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:31 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


   
 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install at
 $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see that
 tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA General 
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



   
 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, Airspan
 ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread John Valenti
Marlon,

I watched the tranzeo wimax 3.65 webinar a few weeks back. They have  
that pico base station for about $1700. I asked, and they said yes, it  
would work with an omni. I know everybody says don't use an omni, but  
maybe it would be OK on 3.65?

I was curious because most of my grain legs would max out at 20  
customers (due to trees). And I certainly wouldn't want to buy three  
sectors just to support 20 houses.

They do have a starter kit that includes two(?) customer radios for  
free.  I'm out of money for testing things, but let us know if you try  
it.
-John

PS - they can sync multiple base stations from a central server.


On Mar 18, 2009, at 9:27 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install  
 at
 $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see that
 tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Thanks!
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: John Valenti vale...@lir.msu.edu
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 7:05 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Marlon,

 I watched the tranzeo wimax 3.65 webinar a few weeks back. They have
 that pico base station for about $1700. I asked, and they said yes, it
 would work with an omni. I know everybody says don't use an omni, but
 maybe it would be OK on 3.65?

 I was curious because most of my grain legs would max out at 20
 customers (due to trees). And I certainly wouldn't want to buy three
 sectors just to support 20 houses.

 They do have a starter kit that includes two(?) customer radios for
 free.  I'm out of money for testing things, but let us know if you try
 it.
 -John

 PS - they can sync multiple base stations from a central server.


 On Mar 18, 2009, at 9:27 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at
 $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see that
 tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Pat O'Connor
Marlon I checked the map, and like me, Odessa is within the 150km 
satellite exclusion zone for the station located in Brewster.  From what 
I've read you need to get their permission to operate anything in the 
3.65GHz spectrum.  I just applied for our 3.65GHz licnse so I haven't 
heard anything yet.  If you want I have a .kmz file I can send you with 
the exclusion zone.





Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 Thanks!
 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: John Valenti vale...@lir.msu.edu
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 7:05 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


   
 Marlon,

 I watched the tranzeo wimax 3.65 webinar a few weeks back. They have
 that pico base station for about $1700. I asked, and they said yes, it
 would work with an omni. I know everybody says don't use an omni, but
 maybe it would be OK on 3.65?

 I was curious because most of my grain legs would max out at 20
 customers (due to trees). And I certainly wouldn't want to buy three
 sectors just to support 20 houses.

 They do have a starter kit that includes two(?) customer radios for
 free.  I'm out of money for testing things, but let us know if you try
 it.
 -John

 PS - they can sync multiple base stations from a central server.


 On Mar 18, 2009, at 9:27 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

 
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at
 $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see that
 tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon
   

 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 
 



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

   




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Jeff Booher
It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base station,
that only supports 30 subscribers. 

-

Jeff
 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
marlon

- Original Message -
From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145



 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/








 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/




 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Jeff Booher
Biggest problem with using a 3 sector configuration on tranzeo is they have
no snyc, and because 
You only have 25mhz to play with, you end up seeing RF issues due to needing
at least 14mhz
Of seperation without snyc.

-

Jeff
 

 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Richey
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:52 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

The APs are around $1600-1700 and CPEs are in the $250-300 ballpark. The
AP will handle 30 subs and they have a BAM/PRIZIM type server you can use to
provision SMs or you can do it the old way.Their thought is once you hit
90 users with 3 sectors you will probably be ready to upgrade to a bigger
base station.

 

Richey

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 10:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 

How much is the tranzeo stuff going for?  AP and CPE?

Gino Villarini wrote: 

Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
 
Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp 
 
 
Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
 
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
 
Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the UBNT
stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
 
Take care leon
 
Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
  

I'm looking into this too.
 
So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install at
$20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see that
tower
 
Anyone have any better ideas?
marlon
 
- Original Message -
From: Gino Villarini  mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com g...@aeronetpr.com
To: Motorola Canopy User Group  mailto:motor...@wispa.org
motor...@wispa.org; WISPA General


List 
  

 mailto:wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
 
 
  


Fellow operators:
 
Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?
 
Any updates on experiences with:
 
Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, Airspan ???
 
 
Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

  

 
 


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
 
 


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
  




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Mike Hammett
More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a WiMAX 
AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base 
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145



 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Gino Villarini
Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel 


Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base 
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145





 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/









 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/




 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/



 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/




 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Mike Hammett
Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.

In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not having enough 
bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the next and 
in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18 megabit.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
 General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145




 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/







 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Matt Liotta
We are seeing  around $500 ARPU and on average 6 customers deployed  
per 7Mhz channel with our RedMax basestations. I see no reason to  
complain.

-Matt

On Mar 19, 2009, at 2:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

 Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.

 In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not  
 having enough
 bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the  
 next and
 in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18  
 megabit.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- 
 boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- 
 boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector  
 install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even  
 see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
 General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145




 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/







 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread reader
I can get 12 to 18 mbit off my 5 ghz AP's, and with customers limited to 
2Mbit, I'm still bumping into limits in the 30 - 45 range per AP,  and even 
then, I consider it oversubscribed.

Now, 18mbit throughput in 7 mhz is great...  But how good does the signal 
have to be, and when the signals degrade due to distance or... How much 
effect does this have? What's the distance you can do 18?   2 miles?   4 
miles?   I need 25 miles...   I can't even GO 25 miles decently with 3.65, 
due to eirp limits.






insert witty tagline here

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.

 In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not having 
 enough
 bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the next and
 in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18 
 megabit.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
 General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145




 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/







 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Mike Hammett
You're not going to get that in the residential market, which is where most 
of us compete.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:39 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 We are seeing  around $500 ARPU and on average 6 customers deployed
 per 7Mhz channel with our RedMax basestations. I see no reason to
 complain.

 -Matt

 On Mar 19, 2009, at 2:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

 Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.

 In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not
 having enough
 bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the
 next and
 in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18
 megabit.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
 boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
 boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector
 install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even
 see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
 General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145




 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/







 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Matt Liotta
Maybe the equipment isn't the problem then.

-Matt

On Mar 19, 2009, at 2:49 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

 You're not going to get that in the residential market, which is  
 where most
 of us compete.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:39 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 We are seeing  around $500 ARPU and on average 6 customers deployed
 per 7Mhz channel with our RedMax basestations. I see no reason to
 complain.

 -Matt

 On Mar 19, 2009, at 2:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

 Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.

 In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not
 having enough
 bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the
 next and
 in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18
 megabit.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
 boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users  
 on a
 WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
 ]
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
 boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle  
 to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector
 install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even
 see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
 General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145




 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/







 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread reader
my average per customer is around $33/mo



insert witty tagline here

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 You're not going to get that in the residential market, which is where 
 most
 of us compete.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:39 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 We are seeing  around $500 ARPU and on average 6 customers deployed
 per 7Mhz channel with our RedMax basestations. I see no reason to
 complain.

 -Matt

 On Mar 19, 2009, at 2:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

 Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.

 In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not
 having enough
 bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the
 next and
 in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18
 megabit.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
 boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
 boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector
 install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even
 see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
 General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145




 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/







 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 
 
 

 WISPA

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread reader
How do you do that, Patrick?

Seriously, 18 mbit is 18 mbit.

It isn't magically 36 because it has the word 'wimax' attached to it.

Now, we do understand the technical improvements from better MAC's, but that 
has mostly translated to narrower channels, not more throughput.

Even if you do FIBER, but your choke point, where everything comes down to 
a single pipe, be it a router, feed, AP, etc,  data is data, it doesn't 
magically shrink because you label wimax on the device.Because we 
don't talk in radio rate but AP to client throughput aggregate totals, 
it doesn't matter if it's wimax, bpl, 802.11 or some totally proprietary 
unknown system.   Data transfer limits are data transfer limits, and if you 
need to keep 30 clients going all at the same time with at least 1 meg, it 
ain't going to happen with an 18M feed point, even if the wimax word is 
printed, taped, labelled, or scratched onto the device.





insert witty tagline here

- Original Message - 
From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 That's nuts Mike. I know numerous examples where the numbers are very
 high. Simply depends on what you are selling, like it always has. In
 general though, it is probably a fair point to say that how ever many
 customers you can get on a WISP model for a given capacity, double the
 number of customers for the same service and same same capacity in the
 WiMAX world.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:20 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
 General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145




 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/







 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Michael Baird
Take a look at SkyPilot gear, it seems to have all the advantages of 
Wimax, plus some benefits.

28 W PTMP in the 5+ Ghz bands, TDD, low cost cpe's. Only thing it really 
lacks, and is also a downfall of Wimax is the radio as a Demarc 
(Routing/Nat/PPPoE).

Regards
Michael Baird
 Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.

 In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not having enough 
 bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the next and 
 in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18 megabit.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

   
 Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 
 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
   
 On
 
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


   
 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 
 On
 
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 
 the
 
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
   
 General
 
 List
 
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



   
 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 

 
 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






 
 
 
 
 
   
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 
 
 
 
   
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 


   
 
 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Patrick Leary
That's nuts Mike. I know numerous examples where the numbers are very
high. Simply depends on what you are selling, like it always has. In
general though, it is probably a fair point to say that how ever many
customers you can get on a WISP model for a given capacity, double the
number of customers for the same service and same same capacity in the
WiMAX world. 


Patrick Leary
Aperto Networks
813.426.4230 mobile

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:20 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base 
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145





 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/









 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/




 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/



 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/




 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Chuck Bartosch
My understanding is, it's a little more complex than that. With wimax  
prioritization and scheduling, the customer experience is similar to  
what they'd get at 2 or 3 times the normal bandwidth. In other words,  
the customer experience, given a 3 Mbps by 2 Mbps connection on wimax  
gives performance similar to a 5.8 connection at 6 to 9 Mbps down by 4  
to 6 Mbps up. And, because of the prioritization and scheduling, where  
you might be able to support 100 customers, you can support 200 to 300  
customers on a base station. The price for the wimax equipment is  
about 3x what it is for normal 5.8 equipment so the price per customer  
on a fully loaded base station is about the same.

However, that (obviously) means it's not particularly viable in many  
situations where you don't see enough customers to support a wimax  
base station. But because 3.65 with diversity is supposed to deliver  
NLOS performance similar to or better than 900 MHz, you can see  
customers you wouldn't otherwise see.

And of course, it's clean spectrum.

So, it isn't a simply question. It will be great for some, useless for  
others. But I think it's useful for more situations than people think  
it is.

Chuck

On Mar 19, 2009, at 2:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

 Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.

 In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not  
 having enough
 bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the  
 next and
 in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18  
 megabit.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- 
 boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- 
 boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector  
 install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even  
 see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
 General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145




 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Matt Liotta

On Mar 19, 2009, at 3:18 PM, Chuck Bartosch wrote:

 However, that (obviously) means it's not particularly viable in many
 situations where you don't see enough customers to support a wimax
 base station. But because 3.65 with diversity is supposed to deliver
 NLOS performance similar to or better than 900 MHz, you can see
 customers you wouldn't otherwise see.

I can tell you for a fact that even with uplink subchannelization,  
diversity, and all of WiMAX's OFDM subcarriers, 3.65 does not deliver  
NLOS performance similar to or better than 900Mhz. Throw all the  
technology you want at it and 3.65 is still not going to get through  
much foliage. NLOS performance in an urban environment on the other  
hand is great.

-Matt




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Mike Hammett
So in the world of Netflix, ABC, FOX, NBC, etc. using multiple megabits of 
bandwidth for hours at a time (often at the same time of other users), tell 
me how well that's going to work?

QoS and fanciness means nothing if you're trying to stuff 30 megs in an 18 
meg pipe.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:52 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 That's nuts Mike. I know numerous examples where the numbers are very
 high. Simply depends on what you are selling, like it always has. In
 general though, it is probably a fair point to say that how ever many
 customers you can get on a WISP model for a given capacity, double the
 number of customers for the same service and same same capacity in the
 WiMAX world.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:20 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
 General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145




 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/







 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




 
 
 WISPA Wants You

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Mike Hammett
I am happy for you in your business, that's why I try to connect you with 
other WISPs as often as I can.

However, I started my company because I didn't have broadband at my house. 
My neighbor didn't have broadband.  I sure as hell wasn't going to pay 
$500/month for it.

WiMAX certainly has its places, but residential broadband isn't one of them.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:01 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Maybe the equipment isn't the problem then.

 -Matt

 On Mar 19, 2009, at 2:49 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

 You're not going to get that in the residential market, which is
 where most
 of us compete.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:39 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 We are seeing  around $500 ARPU and on average 6 customers deployed
 per 7Mhz channel with our RedMax basestations. I see no reason to
 complain.

 -Matt

 On Mar 19, 2009, at 2:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

 Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.

 In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not
 having enough
 bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the
 next and
 in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18
 megabit.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
 boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users
 on a
 WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
 ]
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
 boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle
 to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector
 install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even
 see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
 General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145




 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread John Rock
H,
I know a user in the Caribbean that has a couple hundred users on a 5MHz
wide channel that 'only' supports 12 Mbs TDD. Works great for his modeled
plans with voip and smaller data plans best effort. 
But heck if I put one user on a 6x6 Mb plan and they suck it all up then I
would only put one user on right.
The point here is you cannot set numbers of Subscriber Stations(SS) per Base
Station sectors based on a quantities' number but rather actual sold; Best
Effort(BE), nRT(non real time), RT(Real Time) and UGS(unsolicited grant
service); services. 

Making a broad statement like I would only put 30 clients on one WiMAX base
station because of lack of bandwidth is just not accurate with the QoS
settings now available in the radios... 

John Rock
Director of Operations - Senior Engineer
Wireless Connections
166 Milan Ave., Norwalk, Oh. 44857 
ACCessing the Future Today!!
ofc. 419.660.6100
cell 419-706-7356
fax  419-668-4077
http://www.wirelessconnections.net
This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential
and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. If
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, copying
or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. If
you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a WiMAX 
AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base 
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145



 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/








 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/



 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Jeff Booher
Mike,

Many Wimax manufacturers have many operators who have more than 100 subs per
AP. Our solution supports up to 30k pps, so it can most defintely scale to
this level. 

The Wimax mac was designed for this, bandwidth aside. 

-

Jeff
 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:20 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a WiMAX
AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base 
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145



 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/








 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/



 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/




 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Jeff Booher
Mike,

It absolutely has nothing to do with throughput. It has to do with the
scheduling mechanism of the MAC. The reason why 802.11x networks cant scale
like this is the listen before talk protocol. Even basic polling doesn't
work because the more subs you add, the more latency you add to the network.

-

Jeff
 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:34 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.

In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not having enough
bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the next and
in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18 megabit.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
 On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a 
 WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base 
 station, that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector 
 install at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to 
 even see that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
 General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, 
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145




 --
 --
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 --
 --
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/







 --
 --
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 --
 --
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




 --
 --
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread reader
Many of us can't get away with that.  We have to make sure that there's 
actually bandwidth, not a fancy, 'managed' version of severe 
oversubscription.





insert witty tagline here

- Original Message - 
From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Mike,

 Many Wimax manufacturers have many operators who have more than 100 subs 
 per
 AP. Our solution supports up to 30k pps, so it can most defintely scale to
 this level.

 The Wimax mac was designed for this, bandwidth aside.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:20 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a WiMAX
 AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145



 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/







 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread reader
Sheesh.   How many times must this misinformation be posted before the snake 
oil gets poured down the drain?

The better MAC allows you to use a very high percentage of transmission time 
for actual data throughput, and it manages spreading bandwidth nicely among 
the oversubscribed.   HOWEVER...

If you built a 300mbit 802.11 PTMP system, you'd get about 120 total 
throughput.

This means you're using massive amounts of spectrum, but the actual 
throughput would be higher than ANY WIMAX setup to date.   This snake oil 
about the MAC supposedly violating physics and putting 36mbit through an 18 
mbit pipe is nonsense.802.11 sucks because the MAC wastes well over 50% 
of the airtime doing nothing at all, has absolutely no means of managing 
bandwidth use or dividing use among the users.   However, REAL THROUGHPUT IS 
REAL THROUGHPUT.

If you have an 18 mbit WIMAX you can support 3 clients consuming a little 
less than 6 each.

Add client #4 asking for 6mbit and the the other three MUST LOSE BANDWIDTH 
TO FEED IT.   Get it?  So, instead of just under 6 each, if they're all 
equal priority, all 4 get about 4.   Duhh.  That's it.   You cannot violate 
physics.

The MAC allows greater efficiency concerning airtime and modulation types 
improve throughput vs spectrum consumption.

NOTHING VIOLATES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS.

You cannot get 36 through an 18 knothole.   Period.

 You guys are all WAY smarter than this, and it's about time the hype based 
on comparison of RADIO DATA RATES gets chucked down the toilet.   None of us 
operate that way, and none of care a whit about radio data rates.   We're 
all about real throughput and good management of our our required business 
model of oversubscription.





insert witty tagline here

- Original Message - 
From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Mike,

 It absolutely has nothing to do with throughput. It has to do with the
 scheduling mechanism of the MAC. The reason why 802.11x networks cant 
 scale
 like this is the listen before talk protocol. Even basic polling doesn't
 work because the more subs you add, the more latency you add to the 
 network.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:34 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.

 In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not having 
 enough
 bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the next and
 in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18 
 megabit.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station, that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Jeff Booher
Mike,

There is nothing fancy about a switched MAC vs a polled or listen before
talk mac. That has very little to do with QOS as much is does with utlizing
the pipe appropriately. In a polled system the latency increases with the #
of subscriber stations, same with a listen before talk.In a wimax system,
the mean latency and customer experience remains the same whether or not
there are 30 subs on an AP or 100. Why? Because an inactive subscriber is
not polled, and active subscribers are given time slots to transmit /
receive on a msec basis. 

-

Jeff
  

-Original Message-
From: rea...@muddyfrogwater.us [mailto:rea...@muddyfrogwater.us] 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:24 PM
To: jefftho...@fastmail.fm; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

Many of us can't get away with that.  We have to make sure that there's
actually bandwidth, not a fancy, 'managed' version of severe
oversubscription.





insert witty tagline here

- Original Message -
From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Mike,

 Many Wimax manufacturers have many operators who have more than 100 subs 
 per
 AP. Our solution supports up to 30k pps, so it can most defintely scale to
 this level.

 The Wimax mac was designed for this, bandwidth aside.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:20 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a WiMAX
 AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145



 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/









 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/




 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Jeff Booher
Mike,

This once again is not an apples to apples argument but rather apples to
rutabega. Still fruit, but very different fruit :)

Correct the per AP bandwidth would be higher. However, try loading an
802.11x system with 100 subscribers. It will choke and the end user
experience will be very bad. It would choke not from bandwidth, but from
simple issues with the scheduler.  I don't know of a single 802.11 based
system that loads well to 100 plus subscriber stations. 

Considering Wimax can support these sort of subscriber totals, per sector in
reality, from a spectral efficency standpoint, in 5.8ghz, on ONE tower you
can support something in the neighboorhood of 240mb/sec in total base
station capacity. ( 34 sectors/120mhz ). So yes, you cant sell many 6/6
pipes off this base station, but you can sell a heck of a lot of 1.5/1.5 mb
pipes ( probably around 2400 subscribers ) FROM one tower location. 

Not to mention the stablity of Wimax, which is a lot more stable in
modulation, error rate, latencythat it can support many many voice over
ip connections. ( our product can support over 300 concurrent calls per
sector ). Also im completely certain that by using a wider RF channel you
increase the required CINR to achieve full modulation, while reducing your
effective range. Wimax has an effective LOS Range @ peak modulation in
5.8ghz of 10 miles plus. 

So yes its expensive. But it definitely beats legacy systems in many
different areas. What good is 300mb in throughput if you can only go 2 miles
with it and the probability of interference is extremely high? On a 7mhz
channel you can easily find open spectrum. I understand the business case
issues with Wimax, and Aperto is probably one of the very few companies that
is sensitive to this issue and is working diligently to find solutions that
can meet customer needs, so that a residential business case can be met. We
know that most customers can't afford a 20 month payback, there is no
arugment there. 

Best Regards,

_

Jeff Booher

Sales Director, North America
www.apertonet.com




-


 

-Original Message-
From: rea...@muddyfrogwater.us [mailto:rea...@muddyfrogwater.us] 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:34 PM
To: jefftho...@fastmail.fm; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

Sheesh.   How many times must this misinformation be posted before the snake

oil gets poured down the drain?

The better MAC allows you to use a very high percentage of transmission time
for actual data throughput, and it manages spreading bandwidth nicely among 
the oversubscribed.   HOWEVER...

If you built a 300mbit 802.11 PTMP system, you'd get about 120 total
throughput.

This means you're using massive amounts of spectrum, but the actual 
throughput would be higher than ANY WIMAX setup to date.   This snake oil 
about the MAC supposedly violating physics and putting 36mbit through an 18 
mbit pipe is nonsense.802.11 sucks because the MAC wastes well over 50% 
of the airtime doing nothing at all, has absolutely no means of managing 
bandwidth use or dividing use among the users.   However, REAL THROUGHPUT IS

REAL THROUGHPUT.

If you have an 18 mbit WIMAX you can support 3 clients consuming a little
less than 6 each.

Add client #4 asking for 6mbit and the the other three MUST LOSE BANDWIDTH 
TO FEED IT.   Get it?  So, instead of just under 6 each, if they're all 
equal priority, all 4 get about 4.   Duhh.  That's it.   You cannot violate 
physics.

The MAC allows greater efficiency concerning airtime and modulation types
improve throughput vs spectrum consumption.

NOTHING VIOLATES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS.

You cannot get 36 through an 18 knothole.   Period.

 You guys are all WAY smarter than this, and it's about time the hype based 
on comparison of RADIO DATA RATES gets chucked down the toilet.   None of us

operate that way, and none of care a whit about radio data rates.   We're 
all about real throughput and good management of our our required business
model of oversubscription.





insert witty tagline here

- Original Message - 
From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Mike,

 It absolutely has nothing to do with throughput. It has to do with the
 scheduling mechanism of the MAC. The reason why 802.11x networks cant 
 scale
 like this is the listen before talk protocol. Even basic polling doesn't
 work because the more subs you add, the more latency you add to the 
 network.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:34 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.

 In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not having 
 enough
 bandwidth to serve

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
No worries.

Only about half of my network is in the zone

thanks,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Pat O'Connor p...@inlandnet.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Marlon I checked the map, and like me, Odessa is within the 150km
 satellite exclusion zone for the station located in Brewster.  From what
 I've read you need to get their permission to operate anything in the
 3.65GHz spectrum.  I just applied for our 3.65GHz licnse so I haven't
 heard anything yet.  If you want I have a .kmz file I can send you with
 the exclusion zone.





 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 Thanks!
 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: John Valenti vale...@lir.msu.edu
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 7:05 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Marlon,

 I watched the tranzeo wimax 3.65 webinar a few weeks back. They have
 that pico base station for about $1700. I asked, and they said yes, it
 would work with an omni. I know everybody says don't use an omni, but
 maybe it would be OK on 3.65?

 I was curious because most of my grain legs would max out at 20
 customers (due to trees). And I certainly wouldn't want to buy three
 sectors just to support 20 houses.

 They do have a starter kit that includes two(?) customer radios for
 free.  I'm out of money for testing things, but let us know if you try
 it.
 -John

 PS - they can sync multiple base stations from a central server.


 On Mar 18, 2009, at 9:27 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:


 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at
 $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see that
 tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
OK, tell me about yours.

I'll need 20 to 40 users per tower.  Many will likely have even fewer.

In a FEW towns I might need up to 100 users but it'll be years before we hit 
that point.

marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base 
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145



 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
ONLY

18 megs of RELIABLE service would be awesome out here where some of my 
customers can't even get a meg due to all of the interference I have to deal 
with.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.

 In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not having 
 enough
 bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the next and
 in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18 
 megabit.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
 General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145




 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/







 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Matt Liotta
 required  
 business
 model of oversubscription.




 
 insert witty tagline here

 - Original Message -
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:06 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Mike,

 It absolutely has nothing to do with throughput. It has to do with  
 the
 scheduling mechanism of the MAC. The reason why 802.11x networks cant
 scale
 like this is the listen before talk protocol. Even basic polling  
 doesn't
 work because the more subs you add, the more latency you add to the
 network.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- 
 boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:34 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.

 In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not having
 enough
 bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the  
 next and
 in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18
 megabit.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station, that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- 
 boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
 ]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector
 install at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be  
 able to
 even see that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA
 General
 List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145




 --
 --
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 --
 --
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/







 --
 --
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 --
 --
 
 

 WISPA Wireless

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread George Rogato


Jeff Booher wrote:
 Mike,
 
 This once again is not an apples to apples argument but rather apples to
 rutabega. Still fruit, but very different fruit :)
 

I thought a rutabega was a vegitable.



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread John Rock
When my son was 6 he would not eat pork chops simply because he never had
tried them. He is 15 now and absolutely loves pork chops, grilled ribs etc.
It did take him till he was 13 before he tried them. I am a firm believer
you can't make kids eat anything they don't want to eat.
Mike, Have you tried WiMAX yet? If so how and with whom? 

John Rock
Director of Operations - Senior Engineer
Wireless Connections
166 Milan Ave., Norwalk, Oh. 44857 
ACCessing the Future Today!!
ofc. 419.660.6100
cell 419-706-7356
fax  419-668-4077
http://www.wirelessconnections.net
This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential
and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. If
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, copying
or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. If
you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 3:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

I am happy for you in your business, that's why I try to connect you with 
other WISPs as often as I can.

However, I started my company because I didn't have broadband at my house. 
My neighbor didn't have broadband.  I sure as hell wasn't going to pay 
$500/month for it.

WiMAX certainly has its places, but residential broadband isn't one of them.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:01 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Maybe the equipment isn't the problem then.

 -Matt

 On Mar 19, 2009, at 2:49 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

 You're not going to get that in the residential market, which is
 where most
 of us compete.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:39 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 We are seeing  around $500 ARPU and on average 6 customers deployed
 per 7Mhz channel with our RedMax basestations. I see no reason to
 complain.

 -Matt

 On Mar 19, 2009, at 2:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

 Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.

 In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not
 having enough
 bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the
 next and
 in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18
 megabit.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
 boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users
 on a
 WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
 ]
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
 boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Mike Hammett
I have not because no one has convinced me that 15 customers can watch 
online video at the same time.

Over 20% of my subscriber base watches online video from NetFlix, 
Blockbuster, ABC, NBC, etc.  Why would I spend $5k+ on an AP that would 
serve them less than my $250 AP does now?

I sure could put 2400 people on 18 megabit if it was 2001, but it is 2009, 
sorry.

BTW:  You certainly can make kids eat what they don't want.  After I sat at 
the table for 4 hours hungry, I picked up whatever it was in front of me and 
ate it.  Eat what mom prepared or don't eat at all.  I am a big boy now and 
eat what I choose, and because I was forced to eat what was in front of me 
when I was young, there's very little I won't eat.   I'm not sure how 
that works into your story, but do it as you see fit.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: John Rock jo...@wirelessconnections.net
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:03 AM
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 When my son was 6 he would not eat pork chops simply because he never had
 tried them. He is 15 now and absolutely loves pork chops, grilled ribs 
 etc.
 It did take him till he was 13 before he tried them. I am a firm believer
 you can't make kids eat anything they don't want to eat.
 Mike, Have you tried WiMAX yet? If so how and with whom?

 John Rock
 Director of Operations - Senior Engineer
 Wireless Connections
 166 Milan Ave., Norwalk, Oh. 44857
 ACCessing the Future Today!!
 ofc. 419.660.6100
 cell 419-706-7356
 fax 419-668-4077
 http://www.wirelessconnections.net
 This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential
 and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. 
 If
 you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
 disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, 
 copying
 or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. 
 If
 you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
 reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 3:37 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I am happy for you in your business, that's why I try to connect you with
 other WISPs as often as I can.

 However, I started my company because I didn't have broadband at my house.
 My neighbor didn't have broadband.  I sure as hell wasn't going to pay
 $500/month for it.

 WiMAX certainly has its places, but residential broadband isn't one of 
 them.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:01 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Maybe the equipment isn't the problem then.

 -Matt

 On Mar 19, 2009, at 2:49 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

 You're not going to get that in the residential market, which is
 where most
 of us compete.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:39 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 We are seeing  around $500 ARPU and on average 6 customers deployed
 per 7Mhz channel with our RedMax basestations. I see no reason to
 complain.

 -Matt

 On Mar 19, 2009, at 2:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

 Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.

 In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not
 having enough
 bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the
 next and
 in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18
 megabit.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
 boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users
 on a
 WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread John Rock
Hey reader you are muddying the waters a bit here. 
I thought the days were over when people thought they could put up one base
station and serve a 1000 square miles or worse put up one base station and
server a 1000 customers. 
I have a customer in Canada that serves 12 Mb out to 45 kilometers via
WiMAX, LOS of course.

John Rock
Director of Operations - Senior Engineer
Wireless Connections
166 Milan Ave., Norwalk, Oh. 44857 
ACCessing the Future Today!!
ofc. 419.660.6100
cell 419-706-7356
fax  419-668-4077
http://www.wirelessconnections.net
This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential
and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. If
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, copying
or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. If
you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of rea...@muddyfrogwater.us
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:45 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

I can get 12 to 18 mbit off my 5 ghz AP's, and with customers limited to 
2Mbit, I'm still bumping into limits in the 30 - 45 range per AP,  and even 
then, I consider it oversubscribed.

Now, 18mbit throughput in 7 mhz is great...  But how good does the signal 
have to be, and when the signals degrade due to distance or... How much 
effect does this have? What's the distance you can do 18?   2 miles?   4

miles?   I need 25 miles...   I can't even GO 25 miles decently with 3.65, 
due to eirp limits.






insert witty tagline here

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.

 In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not having 
 enough
 bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the next and
 in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18 
 megabit.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Mike Hammett
Who says I'm happy with the status quo of 1.5 or even 6 meg?

BTW:  muddyfrogwater != Me

Yes, WiMAX is technically better than WiFi, but who says I'm talking about 
WiFi?

If there was a non-crippled WiMAX AP that supported reasonable amounts of 
bandwidth (40 at a minimum - say with a 20 MHz channel) and was available 
for $2000 or so, I'd be interested.  There isn't nor will there be any time 
soon, so I'll pass on WiMAX.

I just wish Company A would finish their product already so I can actually 
make product references in my arguments  assuming what they say is even 
half true...  and yes they are a company that's been around a few years.


I don't want to be a me too or a last resort.  I want to lead the pack.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 8:12 PM
To: rea...@muddyfrogwater.us; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Mike,

 This once again is not an apples to apples argument but rather apples to
 rutabega. Still fruit, but very different fruit :)

 Correct the per AP bandwidth would be higher. However, try loading an
 802.11x system with 100 subscribers. It will choke and the end user
 experience will be very bad. It would choke not from bandwidth, but from
 simple issues with the scheduler.  I don't know of a single 802.11 based
 system that loads well to 100 plus subscriber stations.

 Considering Wimax can support these sort of subscriber totals, per sector 
 in
 reality, from a spectral efficency standpoint, in 5.8ghz, on ONE tower you
 can support something in the neighboorhood of 240mb/sec in total base
 station capacity. ( 34 sectors/120mhz ). So yes, you cant sell many 6/6
 pipes off this base station, but you can sell a heck of a lot of 1.5/1.5 
 mb
 pipes ( probably around 2400 subscribers ) FROM one tower location.

 Not to mention the stablity of Wimax, which is a lot more stable in
 modulation, error rate, latencythat it can support many many voice 
 over
 ip connections. ( our product can support over 300 concurrent calls per
 sector ). Also im completely certain that by using a wider RF channel you
 increase the required CINR to achieve full modulation, while reducing your
 effective range. Wimax has an effective LOS Range @ peak modulation in
 5.8ghz of 10 miles plus.

 So yes its expensive. But it definitely beats legacy systems in many
 different areas. What good is 300mb in throughput if you can only go 2 
 miles
 with it and the probability of interference is extremely high? On a 7mhz
 channel you can easily find open spectrum. I understand the business case
 issues with Wimax, and Aperto is probably one of the very few companies 
 that
 is sensitive to this issue and is working diligently to find solutions 
 that
 can meet customer needs, so that a residential business case can be met. 
 We
 know that most customers can't afford a 20 month payback, there is no
 arugment there.

 Best Regards,

 _

 Jeff Booher

 Sales Director, North America
 www.apertonet.com




 -




 -Original Message-
 From: rea...@muddyfrogwater.us [mailto:rea...@muddyfrogwater.us]
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:34 PM
 To: jefftho...@fastmail.fm; WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Sheesh.   How many times must this misinformation be posted before the 
 snake

 oil gets poured down the drain?

 The better MAC allows you to use a very high percentage of transmission 
 time
 for actual data throughput, and it manages spreading bandwidth nicely 
 among
 the oversubscribed.   HOWEVER...

 If you built a 300mbit 802.11 PTMP system, you'd get about 120 total
 throughput.

 This means you're using massive amounts of spectrum, but the actual
 throughput would be higher than ANY WIMAX setup to date.   This snake oil
 about the MAC supposedly violating physics and putting 36mbit through an 
 18
 mbit pipe is nonsense.802.11 sucks because the MAC wastes well over 
 50%
 of the airtime doing nothing at all, has absolutely no means of managing
 bandwidth use or dividing use among the users.   However, REAL THROUGHPUT 
 IS

 REAL THROUGHPUT.

 If you have an 18 mbit WIMAX you can support 3 clients consuming a little
 less than 6 each.

 Add client #4 asking for 6mbit and the the other three MUST LOSE BANDWIDTH
 TO FEED IT.   Get it?  So, instead of just under 6 each, if they're all
 equal priority, all 4 get about 4.   Duhh.  That's it.   You cannot 
 violate
 physics.

 The MAC allows greater efficiency concerning airtime and modulation types
 improve throughput vs spectrum consumption.

 NOTHING VIOLATES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS.

 You cannot get 36 through an 18 knothole.   Period.

 You guys are all WAY smarter than this, and it's about time the hype based
 on comparison of RADIO DATA RATES gets chucked down the toilet.   None of 
 us

 operate that way, and none

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-18 Thread reader
I put up some Ubiquiti based gear,  one of the radios died about 1hr into 
carrying traffic.

UBNT shipped me new ones to try overnight.

I'll update.




insert witty tagline here

- Original Message - 
From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA General List 
wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, Airspan
 ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145




 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-18 Thread Gino Villarini
 
Ubiquity as in x3 cards or as in NS3 units?

Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of rea...@muddyfrogwater.us
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 2:11 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

I put up some Ubiquiti based gear,  one of the radios died about 1hr
into carrying traffic.

UBNT shipped me new ones to try overnight.

I'll update.




insert witty tagline here

- Original Message -
From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA General
List 
wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
Airspan
 ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145







 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/




 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-18 Thread Brian Rohrbacher




Wow. I have 200 UBNT radios out there and not a single failure, not
even to lightning. These are 2.4, but still. I sure do like them.

rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:

  I put up some Ubiquiti based gear,  one of the radios died about 1hr into 
carrying traffic.

UBNT shipped me new ones to try overnight.

I'll update.




insert witty tagline here

- Original Message - 
From: "Gino Villarini" g...@aeronetpr.com
To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" motor...@wispa.org; "WISPA General List" 
wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


  
  
Fellow operators:

Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

Any updates on experiences with:

Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, Airspan
???


Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 

  
  



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

  






WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-18 Thread Matt Liotta
Yes, but the UBNT 3.65 radios are crap. Everyone we tried was  
worthless. On the other hand, every Redline 3.65 radio whether RedMax  
or AN80 has worked perfect.

-Matt

On Mar 18, 2009, at 3:20 PM, Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

 Wow.  I have 200 UBNT radios out there and not a single failure, not  
 even to lightning.  These are 2.4, but still.  I sure do like them.

 rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:

 I put up some Ubiquiti based gear,  one of the radios died about  
 1hr into
 carrying traffic.

 UBNT shipped me new ones to try overnight.

 I'll update.



 
 insert witty tagline here

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA  
 General List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,  
 Airspan
 ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145




 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


  1   2   >