Re: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios
Excellent news. Do you know if there is an easy way now to see where the TDWR radars are (for curiosity's sake)? Randy On 3/11/2010 3:56 PM, Jack Unger wrote: Randy, The 5 GHz equipment approval process is currently on hold at the request of the FAA and the NTIA. Airport Terminal Doppler Weather Radars (TDWR) operate in the 5.6 GHz range and have been experiencing interference from current 5475-5725 MHz equipment. Because of this interference, a new Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS) algorithm is being developed to allow newly-certified equipment to detect and avoid nearby TDWR radar systems. Until the new algorithm is developed and the FCC certification process re-started, there will be no new outdoor 5.4 equipment certified. To allow recertifications to restart before the new algorithm is developed and implemented, the wireless industry has been meeting with the FCC, FAA and NTIA. The FAA and NTIA agreed to allow 5 GHz outdoor equipment certifications to be restarted if the industry would provide a database that allowed an operator to a) See if their outdoor base stations are within 35 km of one of the airport TDWR sites, and b) If within 35 km, voluntarily register their equipment type and contact information in the database. Each airport TDWR site uses one frequency. Operators are requested to maintain a minimum 30-MHz center-to-center frequency separation away from the single frequency used by the neighboring TDWR. If/when TDWR interference does occurs, the voluntary database should help the FCC to contact the operator of the equipment that may be causing the interference and request a frequency change or request that the one nearby TDWR frequency be excluded from the DFS channel search list. Once the new TDWR-aware algorithm is ready for incorporation into new 5 GHz equipment, this database is expected to slowly become obsolete as the older equipment is retired. WISPA's FCC Committee is working with the industry group (Motorola, Cisco, Atheros, Intel, etc.) as well as with the FCC, FAA and NTIA to help find a solution to this TDWR-interference problem. We'll provide more information when significant developments occur. Jack Unger WISPA FCC Committee Chair 818-227-4220 Randy Cosby wrote: I'm trying to compile a list of options for FCC certified 5.4 ptp radios for short backhaul links. Off the top of my head, I can remember: Tranzeo TR-5A Trango TrangoLINK-45 Radwin 2000 (has mimo as well) Motorola PTP 100, 200, 300, 500, 600 Any others I'm not aware of? Sure would be nice to see more mimo/N radios certified in 5.4. Anyone working through the approval process (ligowave?). -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios
Ignore my question - I've been out of the office and didn't read the responses that already answered it. On 3/15/2010 10:27 AM, Randy Cosby wrote: Excellent news. Do you know if there is an easy way now to see where the TDWR radars are (for curiosity's sake)? Randy On 3/11/2010 3:56 PM, Jack Unger wrote: Randy, The 5 GHz equipment approval process is currently on hold at the request of the FAA and the NTIA. Airport Terminal Doppler Weather Radars (TDWR) operate in the 5.6 GHz range and have been experiencing interference from current 5475-5725 MHz equipment. Because of this interference, a new Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS) algorithm is being developed to allow newly-certified equipment to detect and avoid nearby TDWR radar systems. Until the new algorithm is developed and the FCC certification process re-started, there will be no new outdoor 5.4 equipment certified. To allow recertifications to restart before the new algorithm is developed and implemented, the wireless industry has been meeting with the FCC, FAA and NTIA. The FAA and NTIA agreed to allow 5 GHz outdoor equipment certifications to be restarted if the industry would provide a database that allowed an operator to a) See if their outdoor base stations are within 35 km of one of the airport TDWR sites, and b) If within 35 km, voluntarily register their equipment type and contact information in the database. Each airport TDWR site uses one frequency. Operators are requested to maintain a minimum 30-MHz center-to-center frequency separation away from the single frequency used by the neighboring TDWR. If/when TDWR interference does occurs, the voluntary database should help the FCC to contact the operator of the equipment that may be causing the interference and request a frequency change or request that the one nearby TDWR frequency be excluded from the DFS channel search list. Once the new TDWR-aware algorithm is ready for incorporation into new 5 GHz equipment, this database is expected to slowly become obsolete as the older equipment is retired. WISPA's FCC Committee is working with the industry group (Motorola, Cisco, Atheros, Intel, etc.) as well as with the FCC, FAA and NTIA to help find a solution to this TDWR-interference problem. We'll provide more information when significant developments occur. Jack Unger WISPA FCC Committee Chair 818-227-4220 Randy Cosby wrote: I'm trying to compile a list of options for FCC certified 5.4 ptp radios for short backhaul links. Off the top of my head, I can remember: Tranzeo TR-5A Trango TrangoLINK-45 Radwin 2000 (has mimo as well) Motorola PTP 100, 200, 300, 500, 600 Any others I'm not aware of? Sure would be nice to see more mimo/N radios certified in 5.4. Anyone working through the approval process (ligowave?). -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios
list of frequencys per site.anyone? --- On Mon, 3/15/10, Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com wrote: From: Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 12:38 PM Ignore my question - I've been out of the office and didn't read the responses that already answered it. On 3/15/2010 10:27 AM, Randy Cosby wrote: Excellent news. Do you know if there is an easy way now to see where the TDWR radars are (for curiosity's sake)? Randy On 3/11/2010 3:56 PM, Jack Unger wrote: Randy, The 5 GHz equipment approval process is currently on hold at the request of the FAA and the NTIA. Airport Terminal Doppler Weather Radars (TDWR) operate in the 5.6 GHz range and have been experiencing interference from current 5475-5725 MHz equipment. Because of this interference, a new Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS) algorithm is being developed to allow newly-certified equipment to detect and avoid nearby TDWR radar systems. Until the new algorithm is developed and the FCC certification process re-started, there will be no new outdoor 5.4 equipment certified. To allow recertifications to restart before the new algorithm is developed and implemented, the wireless industry has been meeting with the FCC, FAA and NTIA. The FAA and NTIA agreed to allow 5 GHz outdoor equipment certifications to be restarted if the industry would provide a database that allowed an operator to a) See if their outdoor base stations are within 35 km of one of the airport TDWR sites, and b) If within 35 km, voluntarily register their equipment type and contact information in the database. Each airport TDWR site uses one frequency. Operators are requested to maintain a minimum 30-MHz center-to-center frequency separation away from the single frequency used by the neighboring TDWR. If/when TDWR interference does occurs, the voluntary database should help the FCC to contact the operator of the equipment that may be causing the interference and request a frequency change or request that the one nearby TDWR frequency be excluded from the DFS channel search list. Once the new TDWR-aware algorithm is ready for incorporation into new 5 GHz equipment, this database is expected to slowly become obsolete as the older equipment is retired. WISPA's FCC Committee is working with the industry group (Motorola, Cisco, Atheros, Intel, etc.) as well as with the FCC, FAA and NTIA to help find a solution to this TDWR-interference problem. We'll provide more information when significant developments occur. Jack Unger WISPA FCC Committee Chair 818-227-4220 Randy Cosby wrote: I'm trying to compile a list of options for FCC certified 5.4 ptp radios for short backhaul links. Off the top of my head, I can remember: Tranzeo TR-5A Trango TrangoLINK-45 Radwin 2000 (has mimo as well) Motorola PTP 100, 200, 300, 500, 600 Any others I'm not aware of? Sure would be nice to see more mimo/N radios certified in 5.4. Anyone working through the approval process (ligowave?). -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios
I requested this from the FCC last Friday. This morning they advised me that they are going to discuss my request with the FAA and NTIA. I'll advise as soon as I hear more. jack Jason Bailey wrote: list of frequencys per site.anyone? --- On Mon, 3/15/10, Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com wrote: From: Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 12:38 PM Ignore my question - I've been out of the office and didn't read the responses that already answered it. On 3/15/2010 10:27 AM, Randy Cosby wrote: Excellent news. Do you know if there is an easy way now to see where the TDWR radars are (for curiosity's sake)? Randy On 3/11/2010 3:56 PM, Jack Unger wrote: Randy, The 5 GHz equipment approval process is currently on hold at the request of the FAA and the NTIA. Airport Terminal Doppler Weather Radars (TDWR) operate in the 5.6 GHz range and have been experiencing interference from current 5475-5725 MHz equipment. Because of this interference, a new Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS) algorithm is being developed to allow newly-certified equipment to detect and avoid nearby TDWR radar systems. Until the new algorithm is developed and the FCC certification process re-started, there will be no new outdoor 5.4 equipment certified. To allow recertifications to restart before the new algorithm is developed and implemented, the wireless industry has been meeting with the FCC, FAA and NTIA. The FAA and NTIA agreed to allow 5 GHz outdoor equipment certifications to be restarted if the industry would provide a database that allowed an operator to a) See if their outdoor base stations are within 35 km of one of the airport TDWR sites, and b) If within 35 km, voluntarily register their equipment type and contact information in the database. Each airport TDWR site uses one frequency. Operators are requested to maintain a minimum 30-MHz center-to-center frequency separation away from the single frequency used by the neighboring TDWR. If/when TDWR interference does occurs, the voluntary database should help the FCC to contact the operator of the equipment that may be causing the interference and request a frequency change or request that the one nearby TDWR frequency be excluded from the DFS channel search list. Once the new TDWR-aware algorithm is ready for incorporation into new 5 GHz equipment, this database is expected to slowly become obsolete as the older equipment is retired. WISPA's FCC Committee is working with the industry group (Motorola, Cisco, Atheros, Intel, etc.) as well as with the FCC, FAA and NTIA to help find a solution to this TDWR-interference problem. We'll provide more information when significant developments occur. Jack Unger WISPA FCC Committee Chair 818-227-4220 Randy Cosby wrote: I'm trying to compile a list of options for FCC certified 5.4 ptp radios for short backhaul links. Off the top of my head, I can remember: Tranzeo TR-5A Trango TrangoLINK-45 Radwin 2000 (has mimo as well) Motorola PTP 100, 200, 300, 500, 600 Any others I'm not aware of? Sure would be nice to see more mimo/N radios certified in 5.4. Anyone working through the approval process (ligowave?). -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios
Two off the top of my head. Exalt extendair 5r Redline AN80-t54 Mike Goicoechea VP of Operations Cielo Systems International 806-977-9001 ext 101 806-763-1945 fax Skype Mike.Goik m...@cielosystems.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios I'm trying to compile a list of options for FCC certified 5.4 ptp radios for short backhaul links. Off the top of my head, I can remember: Tranzeo TR-5A Trango TrangoLINK-45 Radwin 2000 (has mimo as well) Motorola PTP 100, 200, 300, 500, 600 Any others I'm not aware of? Sure would be nice to see more mimo/N radios certified in 5.4. Anyone working through the approval process (ligowave?). -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios
Alvarion B-series WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios
Hello, As far as I know the Tranzeo TR-5A is not approved in the US. While the radio can do it physically it does not have DFS and has not been approved for use in the US. I hope I am wrong. Any have the FCC doc to show it is OK to use in the US? I have not searched the FCC site for them. Thanks -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios I'm trying to compile a list of options for FCC certified 5.4 ptp radios for short backhaul links. Off the top of my head, I can remember: Tranzeo TR-5A Trango TrangoLINK-45 Radwin 2000 (has mimo as well) Motorola PTP 100, 200, 300, 500, 600 Any others I'm not aware of? Sure would be nice to see more mimo/N radios certified in 5.4. Anyone working through the approval process (ligowave?). -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios
The TR5a does have DFS. I think Damian Wallace's rant goes like this: We give the radio to a testing lab, and they do FCC testing. Then they tell us to listen for some sort of signal... and they give us like eleventy-billion signatures to listen for. Then they take our radio to a secret room and they make sure that they shut down when the signatures are presented. It is a pain in the backside... Older models of insert brand here that were created before DFS was required, did not have DFS. I have some older radios from insert up to 3 vendors here that do not have DFS.. However, newer models do, and some manufacturers turn DFS on with a firmware update. ryan On Mar 11, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Nathan Stooke wrote: Hello, As far as I know the Tranzeo TR-5A is not approved in the US. While the radio can do it physically it does not have DFS and has not been approved for use in the US. I hope I am wrong. Any have the FCC doc to show it is OK to use in the US? I have not searched the FCC site for them. Thanks -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios I'm trying to compile a list of options for FCC certified 5.4 ptp radios for short backhaul links. Off the top of my head, I can remember: Tranzeo TR-5A Trango TrangoLINK-45 Radwin 2000 (has mimo as well) Motorola PTP 100, 200, 300, 500, 600 Any others I'm not aware of? Sure would be nice to see more mimo/N radios certified in 5.4. Anyone working through the approval process (ligowave?). -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios
From the horses mouth regarding Tranzeo and 5.4: ryan On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Damian Wallace dwall...@tranzeo.comwrote: The TR5a has DFS approval. All 5 GHz Stuff manufactured after we received the DFS approval has DFS turned on. Really old stuff does not have DFS because it was made before DFS was published. Now the bad news. Due to the plethora of illegal gear that operates in 5.4, the FCC has pulled back from issuing any new approvals for Outdoor gear. https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/kdb/forms/FTSSearchResultPage.cfm?switch =Pid=41732 That is why you haven't seen any new gear approved in the last year or more from anyone. Of course, illegal gear continues to pour in the space in the meantime. This came about because people were operating 5.4 gear without DFS around various locations in Puerto Rico and interfering with radar. -Original Message- From: D. Ryan Spott [mailto:rsp...@cspott.com] Sent: March-11-10 10:28 AM To: nstooke...@wisperisp.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios The TR5a does have DFS. I think Damian Wallace's rant goes like this: We give the radio to a testing lab, and they do FCC testing. Then they tell us to listen for some sort of signal... and they give us like eleventy-billion signatures to listen for. Then they take our radio to a secret room and they make sure that they shut down when the signatures are presented. It is a pain in the backside... Older models of insert brand here that were created before DFS was required, did not have DFS. I have some older radios from insert up to 3 vendors here that do not have DFS.. However, newer models do, and some manufacturers turn DFS on with a firmware update. ryan On Mar 11, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Nathan Stooke wrote: Hello, As far as I know the Tranzeo TR-5A is not approved in the US. While the radio can do it physically it does not have DFS and has not been approved for use in the US. I hope I am wrong. Any have the FCC doc to show it is OK to use in the US? I have not searched the FCC site for them. Thanks -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios I'm trying to compile a list of options for FCC certified 5.4 ptp radios for short backhaul links. Off the top of my head, I can remember: Tranzeo TR-5A Trango TrangoLINK-45 Radwin 2000 (has mimo as well) Motorola PTP 100, 200, 300, 500, 600 Any others I'm not aware of? Sure would be nice to see more mimo/N radios certified in 5.4. Anyone working through the approval process (ligowave?). -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios
Just hooked up a Tranzeo link between two buildings using two TR-5A-24's. These models did have the DFS built into them. I set the band to 5.4ghz and there is no other channel selection available. The Tranzeo decides what channel it will be on. And you do not have the ability to set Transmit Power in the wireless configuration page anymore. This is how it works. When the AP radio boots up it starts listening on a random channel. After 60 seconds of not hearing any of the 5.4ghz radar signatures it will then start broadcasting its SSID and then the client will connect. Its kind of annoying at fisrt cause you don't know if you have the AP/Clients configured correctly until at least 60 seconds have gone by but I have gotten used to it now. Now if it detects radar in the 60 second window it will go to the next channel and start the process over again. If it goes through all the channels and they all have radar present the radio will stop searching for clean channels after 30 minutes and then start all over again. The link I set up was about 150 yards so the TR-5A-24's were overkill. But the good thing is under the DFS configuration page you do have the ability to turn your EIRP power down. The Tranzeo will not allow itself to have more EIRP than 1 watt. It knows that it has a 24db antenna and will adjust the radio accordingly. However you can force the power to be less than 1 watt EIRP by setting the Transmit Power Control to MANUAL instead of AUTOMATIC. The link between the two buildings has their Transmit Power Control set at 10dBm which automatically turns the radio output power to -14db. So -14db transmit power plus 24db antenna gain = 10dBm EIRP = 1/100th of a watt :) Even at 1/100th of a watt on this short of a link the signals are still at -55db on each side. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Stooke Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 1:06 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios Hello, As far as I know the Tranzeo TR-5A is not approved in the US. While the radio can do it physically it does not have DFS and has not been approved for use in the US. I hope I am wrong. Any have the FCC doc to show it is OK to use in the US? I have not searched the FCC site for them. Thanks -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios I'm trying to compile a list of options for FCC certified 5.4 ptp radios for short backhaul links. Off the top of my head, I can remember: Tranzeo TR-5A Trango TrangoLINK-45 Radwin 2000 (has mimo as well) Motorola PTP 100, 200, 300, 500, 600 Any others I'm not aware of? Sure would be nice to see more mimo/N radios certified in 5.4. Anyone working through the approval process (ligowave?). -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios
Randy, The 5 GHz equipment approval process is currently on hold at the request of the FAA and the NTIA. Airport Terminal Doppler Weather Radars (TDWR) operate in the 5.6 GHz range and have been experiencing interference from current 5475-5725 MHz equipment. Because of this interference, a new Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS) algorithm is being developed to allow newly-certified equipment to detect and avoid nearby TDWR radar systems. Until the new algorithm is developed and the FCC certification process re-started, there will be no new outdoor 5.4 equipment certified. To allow recertifications to restart before the new algorithm is developed and implemented, the wireless industry has been meeting with the FCC, FAA and NTIA. The FAA and NTIA agreed to allow 5 GHz outdoor equipment certifications to be restarted if the industry would provide a database that allowed an operator to a) See if their outdoor base stations are within 35 km of one of the airport TDWR sites, and b) If within 35 km, voluntarily register their equipment type and contact information in the database. Each airport TDWR site uses one frequency. Operators are requested to maintain a minimum 30-MHz center-to-center frequency separation away from the single frequency used by the neighboring TDWR. If/when TDWR interference does occurs, the voluntary database should help the FCC to contact the operator of the equipment that may be causing the interference and request a frequency change or request that the one nearby TDWR frequency be excluded from the DFS channel search list. Once the new TDWR-aware algorithm is ready for incorporation into new 5 GHz equipment, this database is expected to slowly become obsolete as the older equipment is retired. WISPA's FCC Committee is working with the industry group (Motorola, Cisco, Atheros, Intel, etc.) as well as with the FCC, FAA and NTIA to help find a solution to this TDWR-interference problem. We'll provide more information when significant developments occur. Jack Unger WISPA FCC Committee Chair 818-227-4220 Randy Cosby wrote: I'm trying to compile a list of options for FCC certified 5.4 ptp radios for short backhaul links. Off the top of my head, I can remember: Tranzeo TR-5A Trango TrangoLINK-45 Radwin 2000 (has mimo as well) Motorola PTP 100, 200, 300, 500, 600 Any others I'm not aware of? Sure would be nice to see more mimo/N radios certified in 5.4. Anyone working through the approval process (ligowave?). -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios
Hello, I am glad I was wrong, I have been looking for a BH solution in the 5.4 gHz range at the price range of Tranzeo. How much bandwidth can you push in the 5.4 range. Can it use 20mhz cannels or 40 mhz or can you select that? Thanks -Original Message- From: Kurt Fankhauser [mailto:k...@wavelinc.com] Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 2:52 PM To: nstooke...@wisperisp.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios Just hooked up a Tranzeo link between two buildings using two TR-5A-24's. These models did have the DFS built into them. I set the band to 5.4ghz and there is no other channel selection available. The Tranzeo decides what channel it will be on. And you do not have the ability to set Transmit Power in the wireless configuration page anymore. This is how it works. When the AP radio boots up it starts listening on a random channel. After 60 seconds of not hearing any of the 5.4ghz radar signatures it will then start broadcasting its SSID and then the client will connect. Its kind of annoying at fisrt cause you don't know if you have the AP/Clients configured correctly until at least 60 seconds have gone by but I have gotten used to it now. Now if it detects radar in the 60 second window it will go to the next channel and start the process over again. If it goes through all the channels and they all have radar present the radio will stop searching for clean channels after 30 minutes and then start all over again. The link I set up was about 150 yards so the TR-5A-24's were overkill. But the good thing is under the DFS configuration page you do have the ability to turn your EIRP power down. The Tranzeo will not allow itself to have more EIRP than 1 watt. It knows that it has a 24db antenna and will adjust the radio accordingly. However you can force the power to be less than 1 watt EIRP by setting the Transmit Power Control to MANUAL instead of AUTOMATIC. The link between the two buildings has their Transmit Power Control set at 10dBm which automatically turns the radio output power to -14db. So -14db transmit power plus 24db antenna gain = 10dBm EIRP = 1/100th of a watt :) Even at 1/100th of a watt on this short of a link the signals are still at -55db on each side. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Stooke Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 1:06 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios Hello, As far as I know the Tranzeo TR-5A is not approved in the US. While the radio can do it physically it does not have DFS and has not been approved for use in the US. I hope I am wrong. Any have the FCC doc to show it is OK to use in the US? I have not searched the FCC site for them. Thanks -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios I'm trying to compile a list of options for FCC certified 5.4 ptp radios for short backhaul links. Off the top of my head, I can remember: Tranzeo TR-5A Trango TrangoLINK-45 Radwin 2000 (has mimo as well) Motorola PTP 100, 200, 300, 500, 600 Any others I'm not aware of? Sure would be nice to see more mimo/N radios certified in 5.4. Anyone working through the approval process (ligowave?). -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios
I can say that Redline's AN80i 5.4Ghz units setup as a Bridge can use a 40Mhz channel with a theoretical speed of 108Mbps. Sector Controllers/APs utilize 20Mhz channels for up to 54Mbps. Hope that helps. Nathan Stooke wrote: Hello, I am glad I was wrong, I have been looking for a BH solution in the 5.4 gHz range at the price range of Tranzeo. How much bandwidth can you push in the 5.4 range. Can it use 20mhz cannels or 40 mhz or can you select that? Thanks -Original Message- From: Kurt Fankhauser [mailto:k...@wavelinc.com] Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 2:52 PM To: nstooke...@wisperisp.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios Just hooked up a Tranzeo link between two buildings using two TR-5A-24's. These models did have the DFS built into them. I set the band to 5.4ghz and there is no other channel selection available. The Tranzeo decides what channel it will be on. And you do not have the ability to set Transmit Power in the wireless configuration page anymore. This is how it works. When the AP radio boots up it starts listening on a random channel. After 60 seconds of not hearing any of the 5.4ghz radar signatures it will then start broadcasting its SSID and then the client will connect. Its kind of annoying at fisrt cause you don't know if you have the AP/Clients configured correctly until at least 60 seconds have gone by but I have gotten used to it now. Now if it detects radar in the 60 second window it will go to the next channel and start the process over again. If it goes through all the channels and they all have radar present the radio will stop searching for clean channels after 30 minutes and then start all over again. The link I set up was about 150 yards so the TR-5A-24's were overkill. But the good thing is under the DFS configuration page you do have the ability to turn your EIRP power down. The Tranzeo will not allow itself to have more EIRP than 1 watt. It knows that it has a 24db antenna and will adjust the radio accordingly. However you can force the power to be less than 1 watt EIRP by setting the Transmit Power Control to MANUAL instead of AUTOMATIC. The link between the two buildings has their Transmit Power Control set at 10dBm which automatically turns the radio output power to -14db. So -14db transmit power plus 24db antenna gain = 10dBm EIRP = 1/100th of a watt :) Even at 1/100th of a watt on this short of a link the signals are still at -55db on each side. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Stooke Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 1:06 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios Hello, As far as I know the Tranzeo TR-5A is not approved in the US. While the radio can do it physically it does not have DFS and has not been approved for use in the US. I hope I am wrong. Any have the FCC doc to show it is OK to use in the US? I have not searched the FCC site for them. Thanks -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios I'm trying to compile a list of options for FCC certified 5.4 ptp radios for short backhaul links. Off the top of my head, I can remember: Tranzeo TR-5A Trango TrangoLINK-45 Radwin 2000 (has mimo as well) Motorola PTP 100, 200, 300, 500, 600 Any others I'm not aware of? Sure would be nice to see more mimo/N radios certified in 5.4. Anyone working through the approval process (ligowave?). WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios
In the Tranzeo 5.4ghz band there was no TURBO mode option available. So I guess only 20mhz channels. I was able to get 29mbps UDP on the Tranzeo and about 20mbps TCP. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Stooke Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 9:04 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios Hello, I am glad I was wrong, I have been looking for a BH solution in the 5.4 gHz range at the price range of Tranzeo. How much bandwidth can you push in the 5.4 range. Can it use 20mhz cannels or 40 mhz or can you select that? Thanks -Original Message- From: Kurt Fankhauser [mailto:k...@wavelinc.com] Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 2:52 PM To: nstooke...@wisperisp.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios Just hooked up a Tranzeo link between two buildings using two TR-5A-24's. These models did have the DFS built into them. I set the band to 5.4ghz and there is no other channel selection available. The Tranzeo decides what channel it will be on. And you do not have the ability to set Transmit Power in the wireless configuration page anymore. This is how it works. When the AP radio boots up it starts listening on a random channel. After 60 seconds of not hearing any of the 5.4ghz radar signatures it will then start broadcasting its SSID and then the client will connect. Its kind of annoying at fisrt cause you don't know if you have the AP/Clients configured correctly until at least 60 seconds have gone by but I have gotten used to it now. Now if it detects radar in the 60 second window it will go to the next channel and start the process over again. If it goes through all the channels and they all have radar present the radio will stop searching for clean channels after 30 minutes and then start all over again. The link I set up was about 150 yards so the TR-5A-24's were overkill. But the good thing is under the DFS configuration page you do have the ability to turn your EIRP power down. The Tranzeo will not allow itself to have more EIRP than 1 watt. It knows that it has a 24db antenna and will adjust the radio accordingly. However you can force the power to be less than 1 watt EIRP by setting the Transmit Power Control to MANUAL instead of AUTOMATIC. The link between the two buildings has their Transmit Power Control set at 10dBm which automatically turns the radio output power to -14db. So -14db transmit power plus 24db antenna gain = 10dBm EIRP = 1/100th of a watt :) Even at 1/100th of a watt on this short of a link the signals are still at -55db on each side. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Stooke Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 1:06 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios Hello, As far as I know the Tranzeo TR-5A is not approved in the US. While the radio can do it physically it does not have DFS and has not been approved for use in the US. I hope I am wrong. Any have the FCC doc to show it is OK to use in the US? I have not searched the FCC site for them. Thanks -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 5.4 legal ptp radios I'm trying to compile a list of options for FCC certified 5.4 ptp radios for short backhaul links. Off the top of my head, I can remember: Tranzeo TR-5A Trango TrangoLINK-45 Radwin 2000 (has mimo as well) Motorola PTP 100, 200, 300, 500, 600 Any others I'm not aware of? Sure would be nice to see more mimo/N radios certified in 5.4. Anyone working through the approval process (ligowave?). -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
