RE: [WISPA] BLM fees
Would this fall under the US Forestry or the State Forestry? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:10 PM To: WISPA General List Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WISPA] BLM fees Travis, You should fall under the WISP heading here: http://www.blm.gov/nhp/what/lands/realty/rental_schedule/ comm_uses_a1.pdf Depending on what zone you are in the fees could be from 2-13,000. The USFS/BLM is actually ahead of the game with this site: http://www.blm.gov/nhp/what/lands/realty/management.htm These figures are generated by an office in Portland, OR IIRC. ryan On Aug 16, 2007, at 9:31 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: > Hi, > > We are currently co-located on several towers that are located on BLM > (Forest Service) land. The tower owners have paid a mostly flat > fee for being on the ground (even with small, 20ft Rohn towers). > They are now doing "audits" on all of the towers in our area > (Southeast Idaho) and trying to put us in the cell phone category > for fees. > > As an example, a 20ft tower that we just rent space. The tower owner > has paid $1,950 per year previously. They are now trying to > raise the fee to $5,500 per year. > > Any suggestions on how to start fighting this? > > Travis > Microserv > -- > -- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > -- > -- > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.0/957 - Release Date: 8/16/2007 1:46 PM -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1974 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.1/962 - Release Date: 8/20/2007 1:08 PM --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] BLM fees
Blake, Considering that large sections of our law-making process have been taken over by big business interests, I can't help but wonder how many of these new rules were written (out of public view, of course) by these large business interests with the intent of putting small competitors out of business. "Give us a written plan about what you will do if one of your guys needs to pee... " jack P.S. - For anyone who wants to complain about me possibly being too political with the above comment, let me just say "stuff it". This is a business survival issue, not a political (my philosophy is better than your philosophy) issue. Blake Bowers wrote: - Original Message - From: "Forrest W. Christian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] BLM fees My understanding of how BLM fees work are as follows: 1) An empty communications building has very low, if any, fees. Not in the past few years. Expect as much as $5,400.00 a year for an unloaded tower. 4) If you have a tower rent agreement which states that you have to pay BLM fees which are potentially not related to your operation, then you need to renegotiate, because you will end up paying for everyone else's use of the tower since your operation will generally not cause any fees to be incurred (or very low fees to be incurred), and it isn't fair for you to be subsidising everyone else's use of the tower. Absolutely. A couple of other things to be aware of - and some of this varies depending on what area you are in. 1. There WILL be a yearly inspection - at a minimum they will do an inventory. Some areas inspect EVERYTHING, they have been known to climb on the roof of one of our buildings and check the roof. Their only complaint was a couple of small brush piles needed to be removed. 2. The rates are NOT going to stay the same either. They have realized that this is a PROFIT center. They need the money, so watch out. 3. Some of the areas have very difficult rules. We were doing a co-locate for a two way radio customer at one forest, about a 2 hour job, and they insisted on us having a written plan covering safety, emergencies, etc, (all of which we have) but also what to do if one of the guys needed to use the restroom. I asked them if they had a plan if the deer needed to pee WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] BLM fees
- Original Message - From: "Forrest W. Christian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] BLM fees My understanding of how BLM fees work are as follows: 1) An empty communications building has very low, if any, fees. Not in the past few years. Expect as much as $5,400.00 a year for an unloaded tower. 4) If you have a tower rent agreement which states that you have to pay BLM fees which are potentially not related to your operation, then you need to renegotiate, because you will end up paying for everyone else's use of the tower since your operation will generally not cause any fees to be incurred (or very low fees to be incurred), and it isn't fair for you to be subsidising everyone else's use of the tower. Absolutely. A couple of other things to be aware of - and some of this varies depending on what area you are in. 1. There WILL be a yearly inspection - at a minimum they will do an inventory. Some areas inspect EVERYTHING, they have been known to climb on the roof of one of our buildings and check the roof. Their only complaint was a couple of small brush piles needed to be removed. 2. The rates are NOT going to stay the same either. They have realized that this is a PROFIT center. They need the money, so watch out. 3. Some of the areas have very difficult rules. We were doing a co-locate for a two way radio customer at one forest, about a 2 hour job, and they insisted on us having a written plan covering safety, emergencies, etc, (all of which we have) but also what to do if one of the guys needed to use the restroom. I asked them if they had a plan if the deer needed to pee WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] BLM fees
Travis Johnson wrote: So how do I apply for this status? Anyone have a quick link? This is done on a site by site basis from an email I have from the RUS program: --- "BLM is currently in the process of developing a standardized form that eligible RUS borrowers would fill in to apply for the exemption to paying the rights-of-way rents. We are working with them on this form, but it hasn't been finalized yet. Until this form is finalized, RUS usually will provide a letter that certifies that a specific facility would qualify. Since your firm is an internet company, I assume your facility would qualify under the broadband program? (You will need to provide a facility description to the broadband division to confirm this). For your reference, I'll provide a short description of the exemption for RUS borrowers. The exemption for RUS borrowers is based on the Federal Land Policy and Management Act of 1976. Here's the link to the document: http://www.blm.gov/flpma/FLPMA.pdf The relevant section is FLPMA Section 504 (g) [43 U.S.C. 1764 (g)], including subsequent amendments such as Public Law 104-333. I'll cite the relevant information from that section: "Rights-of-way shall be granted, issued, or renewed, without rental fees, for electric or telephone facilities, eligible for financing pursuant to the Rural Electrification Act of 1936, as amended [7. U.S.C. 901 et seq.], determined without regard to any application requirement under that act, [P.L 104-333, 1996], or any extensions from such facilities: Provided, That nothing in this sentence shall be construed to affect the authority of the Secretary granting, issuing, or renewing the right-of-way to require reimbursement of reasonable administrative and other costs pursuant to the second sentence of this subsection." Eligibility for the rights-of-way exemption is based on the facility being eligible for RUS financing, not the whole company. For example, a company might have some facilities that are eligible for RUS financing, and others that are not. It is not a blanket exemption that applies to the whole company. Only those facilities that would be eligible for RUS financing are exempt from paying rights-of-way rents. If you provide facility specifics (equipment, location, etc) to the broadband division (or any other telecom program division you think the facility is eligible to receive financing from), they can provide you with a letter that certifies that those facilities would be eligible for RUS financing." I'm still in the process of getting the letter for two BLM sites I have. The link for the broadband loan program is http://www.usda.gov/rus/telecom/broadband.htm . Some of you may want to apply for the loan... after all it's 4% money. -forrest WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RUS grants (was: RE: [WISPA] BLM fees)
Sorry to hijack this thread... Has anyone on this list ever received a RUS grant? Care to contact me off list please? Thanks! ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 3:54 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] BLM fees So how do I apply for this status? Anyone have a quick link? Travis Microserv Forrest W. Christian wrote: > Travis Johnson wrote: > >> They are now doing "audits" on all of the towers in our area >> (Southeast Idaho) and trying to put us in the cell phone category for >> fees. > > You are *NOT* in the cell phone category for fees. > > In fact, you are most likely fee Exempt. See > http://www.blm.gov/nhp/news/regulatory/2800-Final/2800f.html , > especially those parts referring to "RUS" or "REA". > > Some interesting quotes from this document... > > "``Rights-of-way shall be granted, issued, or renewed, without rental > fees, for electric or telephone facilities eligible for financing > pursuant to the Rural Electrification Act of 1936, as amended, > determined without regard to any application requirement under that > Act or any extensions from such facilities.'' Congress made this > change to exempt from rent those rights-of-way for electric or > telephone facilities eligible for REA financing, but not financed > through REA. > Therefore, it is the eligibility of the facilities, rather than the > eligibility of the owner or operator of the facilities, that is the > focus of amended section 504(g). If electric or telephone facilities > within a right-of-way are financed by REA, or are eligible for such > financing, the right-of-way qualifies for a rent exemption. Thus, large > utilities and rural cooperatives alike are eligible for rent > exemptions if the facilities that they build are REA eligible. > Previous regulations did not reflect the 1996 changes to the statute > and final paragraph (d) of this section implements current statutory > authority." > > -and- > > "Under those provisions, telephone service ``shall be deemed to mean > any communication service for the transmission or reception of voice, > data, sounds, signals, pictures, writing, or signs of all kinds by > wire, fiber, radio, light, or other visual or electromagnetic means, > and shall include all telephone lines, facilities, or systems used in > the rendition of such service; but shall not be deemed to mean message > telegram service or community antenna television system services or > facilities other than those intended exclusively for educational > purposes, or radio broadcasting services or facilities within the > meaning of section 3(o) of the Communications Act of 1934, as > amended.'' Rural area ``shall be deemed to mean any area of the United > States not included within the boundaries of any incorporated or > unincorporated city, village, or borough having a population in excess > of 5000 inhabitants.'' > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] BLM fees
So how do I apply for this status? Anyone have a quick link? Travis Microserv Forrest W. Christian wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: They are now doing "audits" on all of the towers in our area (Southeast Idaho) and trying to put us in the cell phone category for fees. You are *NOT* in the cell phone category for fees. In fact, you are most likely fee Exempt. See http://www.blm.gov/nhp/news/regulatory/2800-Final/2800f.html , especially those parts referring to "RUS" or "REA". Some interesting quotes from this document... "``Rights-of-way shall be granted, issued, or renewed, without rental fees, for electric or telephone facilities eligible for financing pursuant to the Rural Electrification Act of 1936, as amended, determined without regard to any application requirement under that Act or any extensions from such facilities.'' Congress made this change to exempt from rent those rights-of-way for electric or telephone facilities eligible for REA financing, but not financed through REA. Therefore, it is the eligibility of the facilities, rather than the eligibility of the owner or operator of the facilities, that is the focus of amended section 504(g). If electric or telephone facilities within a right-of-way are financed by REA, or are eligible for such financing, the right-of-way qualifies for a rent exemption. Thus, large utilities and rural cooperatives alike are eligible for rent exemptions if the facilities that they build are REA eligible. Previous regulations did not reflect the 1996 changes to the statute and final paragraph (d) of this section implements current statutory authority." -and- "Under those provisions, telephone service ``shall be deemed to mean any communication service for the transmission or reception of voice, data, sounds, signals, pictures, writing, or signs of all kinds by wire, fiber, radio, light, or other visual or electromagnetic means, and shall include all telephone lines, facilities, or systems used in the rendition of such service; but shall not be deemed to mean message telegram service or community antenna television system services or facilities other than those intended exclusively for educational purposes, or radio broadcasting services or facilities within the meaning of section 3(o) of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended.'' Rural area ``shall be deemed to mean any area of the United States not included within the boundaries of any incorporated or unincorporated city, village, or borough having a population in excess of 5000 inhabitants.'' WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] BLM fees
You have just made me smile.. Big. :) ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Forrest W. Christian Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 3:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] BLM fees Travis Johnson wrote: > They are now doing "audits" on all of the towers in our area > (Southeast Idaho) and trying to put us in the cell phone category for > fees. You are *NOT* in the cell phone category for fees. In fact, you are most likely fee Exempt. See http://www.blm.gov/nhp/news/regulatory/2800-Final/2800f.html , especially those parts referring to "RUS" or "REA". Some interesting quotes from this document... "``Rights-of-way shall be granted, issued, or renewed, without rental fees, for electric or telephone facilities eligible for financing pursuant to the Rural Electrification Act of 1936, as amended, determined without regard to any application requirement under that Act or any extensions from such facilities.'' Congress made this change to exempt from rent those rights-of-way for electric or telephone facilities eligible for REA financing, but not financed through REA. Therefore, it is the eligibility of the facilities, rather than the eligibility of the owner or operator of the facilities, that is the focus of amended section 504(g). If electric or telephone facilities within a right-of-way are financed by REA, or are eligible for such financing, the right-of-way qualifies for a rent exemption. Thus, large utilities and rural cooperatives alike are eligible for rent exemptions if the facilities that they build are REA eligible. Previous regulations did not reflect the 1996 changes to the statute and final paragraph (d) of this section implements current statutory authority." -and- "Under those provisions, telephone service ``shall be deemed to mean any communication service for the transmission or reception of voice, data, sounds, signals, pictures, writing, or signs of all kinds by wire, fiber, radio, light, or other visual or electromagnetic means, and shall include all telephone lines, facilities, or systems used in the rendition of such service; but shall not be deemed to mean message telegram service or community antenna television system services or facilities other than those intended exclusively for educational purposes, or radio broadcasting services or facilities within the meaning of section 3(o) of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended.'' Rural area ``shall be deemed to mean any area of the United States not included within the boundaries of any incorporated or unincorporated city, village, or borough having a population in excess of 5000 inhabitants.'' WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] BLM fees
Travis Johnson wrote: They are now doing "audits" on all of the towers in our area (Southeast Idaho) and trying to put us in the cell phone category for fees. You are *NOT* in the cell phone category for fees. In fact, you are most likely fee Exempt. See http://www.blm.gov/nhp/news/regulatory/2800-Final/2800f.html , especially those parts referring to "RUS" or "REA". Some interesting quotes from this document... "``Rights-of-way shall be granted, issued, or renewed, without rental fees, for electric or telephone facilities eligible for financing pursuant to the Rural Electrification Act of 1936, as amended, determined without regard to any application requirement under that Act or any extensions from such facilities.'' Congress made this change to exempt from rent those rights-of-way for electric or telephone facilities eligible for REA financing, but not financed through REA. Therefore, it is the eligibility of the facilities, rather than the eligibility of the owner or operator of the facilities, that is the focus of amended section 504(g). If electric or telephone facilities within a right-of-way are financed by REA, or are eligible for such financing, the right-of-way qualifies for a rent exemption. Thus, large utilities and rural cooperatives alike are eligible for rent exemptions if the facilities that they build are REA eligible. Previous regulations did not reflect the 1996 changes to the statute and final paragraph (d) of this section implements current statutory authority." -and- "Under those provisions, telephone service ``shall be deemed to mean any communication service for the transmission or reception of voice, data, sounds, signals, pictures, writing, or signs of all kinds by wire, fiber, radio, light, or other visual or electromagnetic means, and shall include all telephone lines, facilities, or systems used in the rendition of such service; but shall not be deemed to mean message telegram service or community antenna television system services or facilities other than those intended exclusively for educational purposes, or radio broadcasting services or facilities within the meaning of section 3(o) of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended.'' Rural area ``shall be deemed to mean any area of the United States not included within the boundaries of any incorporated or unincorporated city, village, or borough having a population in excess of 5000 inhabitants.'' WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] BLM fees
My understanding of how BLM fees work are as follows: 1) An empty communications building has very low, if any, fees. 2) As carriers are added to the building, the building owner is assessed fees based on the "inventory" of the building. This inventory is based on how many carriers and what type of carrier they are. Adding a user adds a definate fee, which can be tied to the carrier. Dropping a carrier subtracts the same amount. The standard method in my neck of the woods is for the building owner to pass on 100% of the BLM fee tied to the operation of that carrier to the carrier. That is, if you are a TV station at a site, you get to pay what the BLM charges the owner for you to be at that site. 3) Most WISPS in rural areas are eligible for RUS loans (whether or not they elect to take them out). If you are RUS loan elegible, you are also exempt from BLM fees. Thus, adding you to a building should not change the rent the building owner pays for that building. There is some paperwork you will need to provide to the BLM for this purpose. 4) If you have a tower rent agreement which states that you have to pay BLM fees which are potentially not related to your operation, then you need to renegotiate, because you will end up paying for everyone else's use of the tower since your operation will generally not cause any fees to be incurred (or very low fees to be incurred), and it isn't fair for you to be subsidising everyone else's use of the tower. -forrest WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] BLM fees
I see now, how this is a totally different situation. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] BLM fees Tom, I also forgot to mention... putting another tower up anywhere CLOSE to an existing tower is almost impossible. BLM's take is unless the current tower is over 90% capacity, there is no need for a new tower. And, even if you get it approved, it takes over 2 years for the paperwork to get thru BLM before you can start construction... which is a whole other mess. These are remote, mountaintop towers. Driving in a 4x4 truck takes 2 hours... a cement truck would take 4 hours, etc. Travis Microserv Tom DeReggi wrote: Well, not sure $500 per month is that bad? I'd recommend suggesting a compromise, and locking down a longer term contract in the process. One way is to go public, "Local tower company threatening to disconnect local resident from Broadband in rural america", and get the local government/elected officials involved. The local governement controls the permitting and can give the tower guys headaches. Of course than can alienate tower guys, and is a last resort tactic. The other approach is to build your self, or start the investigation process, and fax a copy of your tower proposal to your rep (showing its a reality and are serious), and let them know if he raises your rates, you will build instead, and solict his other tower tenants at lower rates. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:31 PM Subject: [WISPA] BLM fees Hi, We are currently co-located on several towers that are located on BLM (Forest Service) land. The tower owners have paid a mostly flat fee for being on the ground (even with small, 20ft Rohn towers). They are now doing "audits" on all of the towers in our area (Southeast Idaho) and trying to put us in the cell phone category for fees. As an example, a 20ft tower that we just rent space. The tower owner has paid $1,950 per year previously. They are now trying to raise the fee to $5,500 per year. Any suggestions on how to start fighting this? Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] BLM fees
Yep. I missed the point. I found Ryan's posted links useful. However, what we found here is that, when costs go up for the tower companies, it doesn't neessarilly mean the cost has to go up for all colocators equally/proportionally, even if agreements say so. Just because, all that matters is what its worth to the Colocator to stay, and whether the leasor can profit from that, all things considered. Sometimes, the colocators with the highest revenue potential subsidize everyone else. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 1:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] BLM fees Tom, I think you missed the idea. Let me explain a little more and use a current example. We rent space on a commercial tower that is 120ft tall. There are several cell companies and smaller people like us on this tower. It is in a very rural area (even for Idaho) and yet we still pay $250/month because it's the ONLY tower in this area. We currently serve 11 customers at $40/month from this tower. If BLM raises the fees to the tower owner, those will get passed along to me. Meaning the rent for this tower could go to $750/month ($250 for tower rent, $500 for BLM). That is unacceptable in this area. Sure, if you are downtown Phoenix or Seattle or something that would be fine, but this is an area that probably has less than 100 households within a 20 mile radius. If this happens, it will be better for us to just disconnect the 11 customers and be done with this area. THIS is how BLM is helping get internet to rural America. Good job BLM... keep up the good work. :( Travis Microserv Tom DeReggi wrote: Well, not sure $500 per month is that bad? I'd recommend suggesting a compromise, and locking down a longer term contract in the process. One way is to go public, "Local tower company threatening to disconnect local resident from Broadband in rural america", and get the local government/elected officials involved. The local governement controls the permitting and can give the tower guys headaches. Of course than can alienate tower guys, and is a last resort tactic. The other approach is to build your self, or start the investigation process, and fax a copy of your tower proposal to your rep (showing its a reality and are serious), and let them know if he raises your rates, you will build instead, and solict his other tower tenants at lower rates. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:31 PM Subject: [WISPA] BLM fees Hi, We are currently co-located on several towers that are located on BLM (Forest Service) land. The tower owners have paid a mostly flat fee for being on the ground (even with small, 20ft Rohn towers). They are now doing "audits" on all of the towers in our area (Southeast Idaho) and trying to put us in the cell phone category for fees. As an example, a 20ft tower that we just rent space. The tower owner has paid $1,950 per year previously. They are now trying to raise the fee to $5,500 per year. Any suggestions on how to start fighting this? Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] BLM fees
Tom, I also forgot to mention... putting another tower up anywhere CLOSE to an existing tower is almost impossible. BLM's take is unless the current tower is over 90% capacity, there is no need for a new tower. And, even if you get it approved, it takes over 2 years for the paperwork to get thru BLM before you can start construction... which is a whole other mess. These are remote, mountaintop towers. Driving in a 4x4 truck takes 2 hours... a cement truck would take 4 hours, etc. Travis Microserv Tom DeReggi wrote: Well, not sure $500 per month is that bad? I'd recommend suggesting a compromise, and locking down a longer term contract in the process. One way is to go public, "Local tower company threatening to disconnect local resident from Broadband in rural america", and get the local government/elected officials involved. The local governement controls the permitting and can give the tower guys headaches. Of course than can alienate tower guys, and is a last resort tactic. The other approach is to build your self, or start the investigation process, and fax a copy of your tower proposal to your rep (showing its a reality and are serious), and let them know if he raises your rates, you will build instead, and solict his other tower tenants at lower rates. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:31 PM Subject: [WISPA] BLM fees Hi, We are currently co-located on several towers that are located on BLM (Forest Service) land. The tower owners have paid a mostly flat fee for being on the ground (even with small, 20ft Rohn towers). They are now doing "audits" on all of the towers in our area (Southeast Idaho) and trying to put us in the cell phone category for fees. As an example, a 20ft tower that we just rent space. The tower owner has paid $1,950 per year previously. They are now trying to raise the fee to $5,500 per year. Any suggestions on how to start fighting this? Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] BLM fees
Thanks Ryan. This is what I was looking for. Travis Microserv D. Ryan Spott wrote: Travis, You should fall under the WISP heading here: http://www.blm.gov/nhp/what/lands/realty/rental_schedule/comm_uses_a1.pdf Depending on what zone you are in the fees could be from 2-13,000. The USFS/BLM is actually ahead of the game with this site: http://www.blm.gov/nhp/what/lands/realty/management.htm These figures are generated by an office in Portland, OR IIRC. ryan On Aug 16, 2007, at 9:31 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, We are currently co-located on several towers that are located on BLM (Forest Service) land. The tower owners have paid a mostly flat fee for being on the ground (even with small, 20ft Rohn towers). They are now doing "audits" on all of the towers in our area (Southeast Idaho) and trying to put us in the cell phone category for fees. As an example, a 20ft tower that we just rent space. The tower owner has paid $1,950 per year previously. They are now trying to raise the fee to $5,500 per year. Any suggestions on how to start fighting this? Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] BLM fees
Tom, I think you missed the idea. Let me explain a little more and use a current example. We rent space on a commercial tower that is 120ft tall. There are several cell companies and smaller people like us on this tower. It is in a very rural area (even for Idaho) and yet we still pay $250/month because it's the ONLY tower in this area. We currently serve 11 customers at $40/month from this tower. If BLM raises the fees to the tower owner, those will get passed along to me. Meaning the rent for this tower could go to $750/month ($250 for tower rent, $500 for BLM). That is unacceptable in this area. Sure, if you are downtown Phoenix or Seattle or something that would be fine, but this is an area that probably has less than 100 households within a 20 mile radius. If this happens, it will be better for us to just disconnect the 11 customers and be done with this area. THIS is how BLM is helping get internet to rural America. Good job BLM... keep up the good work. :( Travis Microserv Tom DeReggi wrote: Well, not sure $500 per month is that bad? I'd recommend suggesting a compromise, and locking down a longer term contract in the process. One way is to go public, "Local tower company threatening to disconnect local resident from Broadband in rural america", and get the local government/elected officials involved. The local governement controls the permitting and can give the tower guys headaches. Of course than can alienate tower guys, and is a last resort tactic. The other approach is to build your self, or start the investigation process, and fax a copy of your tower proposal to your rep (showing its a reality and are serious), and let them know if he raises your rates, you will build instead, and solict his other tower tenants at lower rates. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:31 PM Subject: [WISPA] BLM fees Hi, We are currently co-located on several towers that are located on BLM (Forest Service) land. The tower owners have paid a mostly flat fee for being on the ground (even with small, 20ft Rohn towers). They are now doing "audits" on all of the towers in our area (Southeast Idaho) and trying to put us in the cell phone category for fees. As an example, a 20ft tower that we just rent space. The tower owner has paid $1,950 per year previously. They are now trying to raise the fee to $5,500 per year. Any suggestions on how to start fighting this? Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] BLM fees
Well, not sure $500 per month is that bad? I'd recommend suggesting a compromise, and locking down a longer term contract in the process. One way is to go public, "Local tower company threatening to disconnect local resident from Broadband in rural america", and get the local government/elected officials involved. The local governement controls the permitting and can give the tower guys headaches. Of course than can alienate tower guys, and is a last resort tactic. The other approach is to build your self, or start the investigation process, and fax a copy of your tower proposal to your rep (showing its a reality and are serious), and let them know if he raises your rates, you will build instead, and solict his other tower tenants at lower rates. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:31 PM Subject: [WISPA] BLM fees Hi, We are currently co-located on several towers that are located on BLM (Forest Service) land. The tower owners have paid a mostly flat fee for being on the ground (even with small, 20ft Rohn towers). They are now doing "audits" on all of the towers in our area (Southeast Idaho) and trying to put us in the cell phone category for fees. As an example, a 20ft tower that we just rent space. The tower owner has paid $1,950 per year previously. They are now trying to raise the fee to $5,500 per year. Any suggestions on how to start fighting this? Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] BLM fees
Travis, You should fall under the WISP heading here: http://www.blm.gov/nhp/what/lands/realty/rental_schedule/ comm_uses_a1.pdf Depending on what zone you are in the fees could be from 2-13,000. The USFS/BLM is actually ahead of the game with this site: http://www.blm.gov/nhp/what/lands/realty/management.htm These figures are generated by an office in Portland, OR IIRC. ryan On Aug 16, 2007, at 9:31 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, We are currently co-located on several towers that are located on BLM (Forest Service) land. The tower owners have paid a mostly flat fee for being on the ground (even with small, 20ft Rohn towers). They are now doing "audits" on all of the towers in our area (Southeast Idaho) and trying to put us in the cell phone category for fees. As an example, a 20ft tower that we just rent space. The tower owner has paid $1,950 per year previously. They are now trying to raise the fee to $5,500 per year. Any suggestions on how to start fighting this? Travis Microserv -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
