Re: [WISPA] CPI suing FCC to get at real state of broadbandcompetition in the US

2007-01-24 Thread Tom DeReggi
I disagree with that. Confidentiality was promised to the form fillers. If 
that confidentiality is breached, ISPs would never honestly fill them out 
again, after being betrayed. The FCC is holding firm, as they know, its the 
only way to keep getting accurate data, and standing behind its word is 
protects the integrity of the FCC.


I do not believe that the FCC GOA has any benefit to fudge their findings.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] CPI suing FCC to get at real state of 
broadbandcompetition in the US



You know that if they don't want to give up the raw data that they have 
fudged the heck out of it!
It has been suggested by many folks, including Peter Huber, that it might 
be time to put the FCC out to pasture.


- Peter

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Re: [WISPA] CPI suing FCC to get at real state of broadbandcompetition in the US

2007-01-24 Thread Peter R.
That actually may be the head of the nail.  Maybe not everyone DID 
fill it out honorably -- and hence the data is seriously flawed... Data 
that the FCC uses regularly to deregulate. Data that the FCC and the 
gov't uses regularly to grant so much to the ILECs.


Someone needs to verify the raw data.

- Peter


Tom DeReggi wrote:

I disagree with that. Confidentiality was promised to the form 
fillers. If that confidentiality is breached, ISPs would never 
honestly fill them out again, after being betrayed. The FCC is holding 
firm, as they know, its the only way to keep getting accurate data, 
and standing behind its word is protects the integrity of the FCC.


I do not believe that the FCC GOA has any benefit to fudge their 
findings.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] CPI suing FCC to get at real state of 
broadbandcompetition in the US



You know that if they don't want to give up the raw data that they 
have fudged the heck out of it!
It has been suggested by many folks, including Peter Huber, that it 
might be time to put the FCC out to pasture.


- Peter



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Re: [WISPA] CPI suing FCC to get at real state of broadbandcompetition in the US

2007-01-24 Thread John Scrivner
The government cannot request data with a note saying it is confidential 
and then turn around and say it is not. That is not going to fly. If my 
data is shared with others then I will file suit against the FCC myself. 
Peter, how can you possibly support the idea that it is ok for 
confidential data to be gathered and then shared because the ILECs want 
it shared? The FCC is not withholding this information to be annoying or 
secretive. They are doing so because confidentiality was assured when 
the data was gathered.


If this data is shared then Mark Koskenmaki and others were right in 
saying we should not fill out those forms. For now I will do it because 
it is a requirement according to the governing law of the land. If this 
bites me then I will be the first to tell you I was wrong in supporting 
the Form 477 process. For now the data is still not being shared and the 
form process is still a matter of law, like it or not.

Scriv


Peter R. wrote:

That actually may be the head of the nail.  Maybe not everyone DID 
fill it out honorably -- and hence the data is seriously flawed... 
Data that the FCC uses regularly to deregulate. Data that the FCC and 
the gov't uses regularly to grant so much to the ILECs.


Someone needs to verify the raw data.

- Peter


Tom DeReggi wrote:

I disagree with that. Confidentiality was promised to the form 
fillers. If that confidentiality is breached, ISPs would never 
honestly fill them out again, after being betrayed. The FCC is 
holding firm, as they know, its the only way to keep getting accurate 
data, and standing behind its word is protects the integrity of the FCC.


I do not believe that the FCC GOA has any benefit to fudge their 
findings.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] CPI suing FCC to get at real state of 
broadbandcompetition in the US



You know that if they don't want to give up the raw data that they 
have fudged the heck out of it!
It has been suggested by many folks, including Peter Huber, that it 
might be time to put the FCC out to pasture.


- Peter




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Re: [WISPA] CPI suing FCC to get at real state of broadbandcompetition in the US

2007-01-24 Thread wispa
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:36:49 -0600, John Scrivner wrote
 The government cannot request data with a note saying it is 
 confidential and then turn around and say it is not. That is not 
 going to fly. If my data is shared with others then I will file suit 
 against the FCC myself. Peter, how can you possibly support the idea 
 that it is ok for confidential data to be gathered and then shared 
 because the ILECs want it shared? The FCC is not withholding this 
 information to be annoying or secretive. They are doing so because 
 confidentiality was assured when the data was gathered.
 
 If this data is shared then Mark Koskenmaki and others were right in 
 saying we should not fill out those forms. For now I will do it 
 because it is a requirement according to the governing law of the 
 land. If this bites me then I will be the first to tell you I was 
 wrong in supporting the Form 477 process. For now the data is still 
 not being shared and the form process is still a matter of law, like 
 it or not. Scriv
 

You invoked my name, but let me clear something up...   

If the FCC loses in court, exactly who is to blame?  The FCC?  Hardly.  The 
court system?   Maybe.  Who?  I dunno. 

I was opposed on the grounds that the government shouldn't know this in the 
first place, not that it will get spread around.   My reasoning was that 
there's really no Constitutional justification for demanding the 
information.  That someone will come along later and get to that 
information when it was promised to be confidential... well... even WISPA 
could find itself in that position if it collected it.   I don't know why 
or how WISPA could get sued, but I don't think any of us foresaw the FCC 
getting sued until it happened, did we?  And if WISPA got sued, what deep 
pockets would exist to pay the lawyers to fight it? 

That the case isn't summarily dismissed is a bad sign... Not that the FCC 
will lose, I don't know, but that the mere accusation of fudging numbers 
about how many people can get broadband is JUSTIFICATION FOR REVEALING 
CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION. 

Do you get how flimsy that appears?  Any old political goal or wish is 
justification for demanding data and it really IS at risk, since summary 
judgement hasn't occurred, the court is seriously considering the idea 
valid. 

Plaintiff: We think your policies might not be perfect, so we can sue, get 
the data you collect under promise of confidentiality, and spread it around 
the internet to use in a campaign to get you to change policies or have you 
as an agency absolished, or at least your people replaced. 

Court:  Absolutely, your goals definitely trump any objections from 
businesses about confidentiality. 

Seems hard to imagine, but right now, that is precisely what's going on. 

Here's what I see happening as a solution to this:  The FCC asks Congress 
to pass a law demanding we file... AND codifying confidentiality into law.   
Congress does this, and at the same time requires you to now obtain federal 
licensing to be an ISP and that licensing will not be granted until you 
provide proof of CALEA compliance and a host of other important things 
they suddenly get lobbied to include...  All in the name of protecting the 
consumer of course... competence, adequacy, universal coverage, non- 
discrimination in who you serve, blah, blah, blah. 

And 95% of us close our doors and go to work for McDonald's to pay off our 
debts. 

I said long ago that opening the door and walking into the realm 
of federally regulated services  is a guillotine for small businesses. 

There is no future for small business in federally regulated services.   
Never has been. 

We should have been fighting this from day one, not walking in like a wide 
eyed lamb. 

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Re: [WISPA] CPI suing FCC to get at real state of broadbandcompetition in the US

2007-01-23 Thread Marlon K. Schafer

Not true at all Peter.

When filling out the form there's an option to keep the info private.  They 
are only honoring their word.


laters,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] CPI suing FCC to get at real state of 
broadbandcompetition in the US



You know that if they don't want to give up the raw data that they have 
fudged the heck out of it!
It has been suggested by many folks, including Peter Huber, that it might 
be time to put the FCC out to pasture.


- Peter

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