Re: [WISPA] Experience with 802.11a 5Ghz PtMP deployments

2006-01-11 Thread Tom DeReggi
I'd like to see Star-OS with the Virtual AP feature, it the most important 
to support today.
Mikrotik, has a lot of features, but its GUI is very confusing to 
understand, and to difficult for a novice to just configure at a glance.
STAROS on the other hand, I could understand how to configure it after about 
5 minutes of playing around.


However, the other big thing Mikrotik has today is being both the software 
and hardware vendor able to bundle its product. Basically you buy the 
hardware and the imbedded OS is FREE. How can you compete with free.


I'd argue that Star OS could based on the value of its simplicity.

1) Virtual-AP, is required. That will be nive when it arrives.

The other two things that I think would help, that Mikrotik can do, would 
be...


2) Ability to handle large packets above 1500 bytes. (optional method of 
passing VLAN, than currently supported method)
3) A speed test compatible with thirdparty speedtests. Right now Mikrotik 
boasts NStreme, but requires it to be on client and AP. What if features 
were added that added value for using STAR OS with any standard based 
product.  For example if Iperf, was standard on every STAR OS CPE and AP, 
reliable performance tests could be performed from the cell site Linux 
routers (or anywhere on the network) to each CPE/Subscriber, regardless of 
what AP was used, or vice versa regardless of what CPE was used if testing 
from customer to AP.  It would allow a standard testing tool across any 
point of a WISP network, direct to the device that needs testing to, to 
locate bottle necks and week points, and respond to and confirm customer 
complaints. Its not that I don't value StarOS's proprietary AP to CPE speed 
test, its jsut that I want something that is consistent on my network to 
rely on, regardless of what gear is used where.  I'd easilly pay $40 for CPE 
software, if it gave me that testing feature, over a FREE CPE OS, such as 
Mikrotik.  But what if Mikrotik offers it first?  I ahve found that both 
developers/manufacturers ahve not been open to that suggestion, as they tend 
to want to right value add features, that, lock the purchaser into using 
both the AP and CPE on an ongoing basis, apposed to giving them a reason to 
use another product somewhere in the equation.  But I disagree. Opening a 
standardized product (wifi) up to a better more open standardization 
product, is in line with the goal of the purcahsers that are purchasing it. 
And as a result, they'd chosethat product. Being the one that gives them 
choice, indirectly make them chose that product instead of the choice. Just 
my 2 cents.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Paul Hendry [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 4:26 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Experience with 802.11a 5Ghz PtMP deployments



Only compatibility issues with StarOS we have seen was with 2.4GHz and was
to do with long/short pre-amble however this issue has now been fixed. I
believe the next release of StarOS will also have the Virtual AP feature
so as long as you don't have to change too much too soon the software 
should

be ready for you.

One thing I would like to see is a straight comparison between Mikrotik
using N-Streme and StarOS as part of N-Streme is it's ability to poll. Of
course if you use N-Streme then you are stuck with having Mikrotik as both
AP and client but as normally install StarOS at the client site anyway. I
have heard 2 different views on polling with some saying that it overcomes
hidden node but impacts throughput and others saying that hidden node
doesn't really exist in 802.11a networks and collisions are overcome 
because
of the greater performance you can get without polling. I wish I had a 
spare

AP with 100 test clients so I could compare but I guess I'll just have to
hope enough people share there experiences with both technologies ;)

Cheers,

P.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: 09 January 2006 23:37
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Experience with 802.11a 5Ghz PtMP deployments

Matt,

The primary advise I'd add is, Test the various encryption compatibility
betwee nTranzeo and StarOs, before getting to many clients on-net.
We found some compatibilities some CPEs and Star OS at a couple of our 
jobs.


It was a pain to experiement n a live network when we risked locking us 
out

of the subscriber's CPE.  I really like the StarOS Menu Interface, because
it is so easy and clear.  However one of the big reasons we chose Mikrotik
for our standard for Wifi APs now is that the Mikrotik supported virtual
APs, allowing us to setup multiple encryptions configurations at the same
time, so it was easy to setup a test configuration and slowly move 
customers


over without risking downtime for the subscribers.

Also, to get top modulation, don't hesitate

Re: [WISPA] Experience with 802.11a 5Ghz PtMP deployments

2006-01-09 Thread Tom DeReggi

Matt,

The primary advise I'd add is, Test the various encryption compatibility 
betwee nTranzeo and StarOs, before getting to many clients on-net.
We found some compatibilities some CPEs and Star OS at a couple of our jobs. 
It was a pain to experiement n a live network when we risked locking us out 
of the subscriber's CPE.  I really like the StarOS Menu Interface, because 
it is so easy and clear.  However one of the big reasons we chose Mikrotik 
for our standard for Wifi APs now is that the Mikrotik supported virtual 
APs, allowing us to setup multiple encryptions configurations at the same 
time, so it was easy to setup a test configuration and slowly move customers 
over without risking downtime for the subscribers.


Also, to get top modulation, don't hesitate to add plenty of margin on the 
CPE antenna gain, good SNR is key to getting the high speeds of the higher 
modulations.


The conversion should be a peice of cake for you because you are going from 
2.4G wifi to 5.8G wifi, and already aware of the Wifi limitation that  are 
shared between the two similar technologies.


Others have pointed out to me that disabling connection tracking on the AP, 
greatly increases throughput of the AP. We also found the WRAP board to be a 
hardware limitation to increasing cellsite speeds.


5.8G isn't going to survice nearly as well as 2.4G will on links that you 
were pushing LOS and trying to power way through trees and foliage.
However, 5.8G has half the freznel zone height, so you don't have to be 
quite as high above the tree line as 2.4G to squeze in a link.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Matt Larsen - Lists [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; wireless@wispa.org; 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:10 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Experience with 802.11a 5Ghz PtMP deployments



Hello all,

I am getting ready to start migrating my higher end customers from 2.4Ghz 
to 5.8Ghz radios.  I will be using Tranzeo CPEs and StarOS APs for this.


My question: Is there anyone out there who has done this and has quite a 
few people on 5ghz (802.11a based)?  I'm not talking about Canopy or 
Trango, just 802.11a.


I'd like to know what kind of speeds are deliverable, number of clients 
per access point, preferred pricing plans for bandwidth and any snafus 
that have come up.  I'm hoping to avoid snafus if possible by knowing as 
much as I can before deploying.


Right now we have about ten people on our system between three access 
points and plan on migrating another 50 over.  The furthest person at 7 
miles (using a 26db grid antenna), and I would like to cover a range of 4 
to 8 miles per 5Ghz cell.
Any input is appreciated.  I will make sure and submit the results of my 
implementation project in another month or so.


Matt Larsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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