Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????
Cisco AP 1242 Radios have 5.4 GHz as an option in the current flash. John -Original Message- From: John Scrivner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 04:08 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ? Travis, Are saying you are using 5.4 GHz radios in the US? Scriv Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, You make good points... however, the better question is how much money did Z-Tel take out of the business during this time? I would bet the owners and investors made BIG money during this time... so, so what if they are out of business now? If they made millions during that time, then it worked out for them. Same for DSL. I know there are companies that are going or gone now, but that made millions in profits during the past 5 years. Yes, DoD may have a little more push with the FCC, but, who's to say someone can't buy 5.4ghz right now today and put it up? Any user with internet access could order and install a 5.4ghz AP tomorrow for less than $300... Travis Peter R. wrote: Many of you probably don't follow the FCC much, so let me tell you about the stroke of a pen: UNE-P which was the magic bullet for CLECs. No facilities needed. Rock bottom pricing on voice lines. Market and sell. Z-Tel and a few others had over 500k lines. Unfortunately, they didn't listen when they were told it would be a stop gap to facilities. In other words, sell UNE-P regionally and convert to facilities. No one listened. Bang! UNE-P ruled no more. One year to move to facilities. Z-Tel just filed BK, following many others that area shadow of their UNE-P selves. Another example: DSL. One day it is tariffed. Bang! No tariff. Go nego with the ILEC. So please heed the warning about 5.4. It won't take much prodding from DoD to wipe oout your business model. This is NOT a threat, folks. This is how telecom regulations works in the US. So skip the forms - 445 and 477. Keep using the unlincesed gear. Next year you can all be pirates. That's okay, because you can celebrate *Gasparilla* Pirate Fest in Tampa after that. Plus you say all this stuff on a PUBLIC, archived email list. DUH! Regards, Peter @ RAD-INFO, Inc. Patrick Leary wrote: Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry? Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious? Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 -- that's cheap. My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????
John J. Thomas wrote: Cisco AP 1242 Radios have 5.4 GHz as an option in the current flash. John When we were at the fcc talking with Julius Knapp, he said there was a couple manufacturers who have already certified 5.4 systems in the US. Not sure why we never thought about Cisco. George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????
Brian, Umy original point still stands. The parameters of the environment have changed and its time for the military to adapt to forces outside of its control instead of trying to maintain an untenable status quo. I am a little concerned that the military/industrial complex has so much control over existing spectrum. The fact that this stuff has been in use since the 60s is especially disturbing. What good is a highly beneficial technology when it is locked away from the rest of the world? I'm not talking nuclear bombs here - its communication. I wonder what other national secrets are out there now that could be doing the world a lot of good but instead they are collecting dust from disuse. Gotta love the propensity of government and industry to manufacture artificial scarcity to protect their own interests. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com Brian Webster wrote: Matt, Most Radar systems are built with extremely sensitive receivers and extremely high gain antennas that can detect things like a double echo which means it can receive the signal that was generated by itself and then bounced back to the antenna not once but multiple times. In many cases is also designed to sit there in a passive mode to detect other signals and not give out it's own position which gives an enemy an easy target to attack. Some of it is used to direct weapons to it's proper targets, some if it as navigation aids for military aircraft the just like civilian air travel. Do you want to let WISP's be responsible for disabling some of that technology? Please do not get this list started thinking that WISP's and or the manufacturers are much smarter in radio engineering than a government agency who has spent billions of dollars in research and construction of radio systems that are partially responsible for the incredibly cheap radios we have today. Most of what we use on the air today has been in use or manufactured in one form or another by the government since the 60's. You haven't heard of it because for most of those years it was considered part of a national secret and any of us who did know about it are not allowed (including the manufacturers) to say a thing about it. RF Engineering, complex radio systems and digital modulation techniques have been around for much longer that you realize, where do you think many of the geniuses who built this stuff got their experience in the first place? Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Matt Larsen - Lists [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 2:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ? I think everyone is missing the real problem with 5.4ghz. How big of a piece of crap is our military radar that a $49 minipci wireless card and a homemade pringles antenna can render it useless??? ;^) Matt Larsen vistabeam.com J. Vogel wrote: Fair enough. I might have been a little on the touchy side myself there. In the context of what I had been reading, particularly a comment about how the use of 5.4 was going to require someone to install another phone line just to handle complaints from the DoD, coupled with the current excitement around the list that some WISPs have *gasp* been using un-certified gear, it appeared to me that your question might have been motivated by suspicion in that regard. Thanks for the clarification. John Vogel -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????
Matt, Most Radar systems are built with extremely sensitive receivers and extremely high gain antennas that can detect things like a double echo which means it can receive the signal that was generated by itself and then bounced back to the antenna not once but multiple times. In many cases is also designed to sit there in a passive mode to detect other signals and not give out it's own position which gives an enemy an easy target to attack. Some of it is used to direct weapons to it's proper targets, some if it as navigation aids for military aircraft the just like civilian air travel. Do you want to let WISP's be responsible for disabling some of that technology? Please do not get this list started thinking that WISP's and or the manufacturers are much smarter in radio engineering than a government agency who has spent billions of dollars in research and construction of radio systems that are partially responsible for the incredibly cheap radios we have today. Most of what we use on the air today has been in use or manufactured in one form or another by the government since the 60's. You haven't heard of it because for most of those years it was considered part of a national secret and any of us who did know about it are not allowed (including the manufacturers) to say a thing about it. RF Engineering, complex radio systems and digital modulation techniques have been around for much longer that you realize, where do you think many of the geniuses who built this stuff got their experience in the first place? Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Matt Larsen - Lists [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 2:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ? I think everyone is missing the real problem with 5.4ghz. How big of a piece of crap is our military radar that a $49 minipci wireless card and a homemade pringles antenna can render it useless??? ;^) Matt Larsen vistabeam.com J. Vogel wrote: Fair enough. I might have been a little on the touchy side myself there. In the context of what I had been reading, particularly a comment about how the use of 5.4 was going to require someone to install another phone line just to handle complaints from the DoD, coupled with the current excitement around the list that some WISPs have *gasp* been using un-certified gear, it appeared to me that your question might have been motivated by suspicion in that regard. Thanks for the clarification. John Vogel -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: NON U.S. and Canada WISPs? was RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ...
If we want WISPA to be the IEEE of the world, then all this FCC (US) stuff must be taken off the general list. You have a Good Day now, Carl A Jeptha http://www.airnet.ca Office Phone: 905 349-2084 Office Hours: 9:00am - 5:00pm skype cajeptha Patrick Leary wrote: Sam, you are right. During this whole thread I have been reflexive about assuming U.S. and I did assume you discussing it from a U.S. standpoint. I was wrong to assume that and I apologize. To all non-U.S. (well, this really does include Canada since the domains share so much in common from a UL standpoint), this must indeed be mind numbing. What would be VERY interesting would be for the non-North American WISPs to tell us their opinions about compliance relative to their regions. I have assumptions there too, but MUCH less knowledge and experience so the better part of valor is shut up and listen. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:40 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about beingsticker conscious or not?? You know Patrick, I for the most part have respect for you and your opinion, but when it comes to this issue you are so blinded by it you don't even stop to think about your reply. I stated it that way because I have absolutely no idea if rabbtux rabbtux is in the US or not. It is a gmail account so it could be anywhere world wide. They stated that they were looking for something that would work with an MT/SR5 combination so I replied that if the sticker is not important (which it probably isn't since they are use an MT/SR5 as the AP) they could use a RB112 and CM9 with good result. I added on the fact that Tranzeo makes eqiupment that will meet their specifications and is FCC approved so that they (and others) know that there is certified equipment that meet their criteria. I will echo Mark's (?) comment from somewhere in the fact that in the certified realm there isn't much that comes close to the flexibility and power of either StarOS or MT. The problem with the Premium CPE is that it attaches to a Premium PROPRIETARY AP. The power of StarOS and MT is in the fact that the user is not stuck buying everything from a single manufacturer. If PCEngines EOLs a model of wrap board there is always gateworks or MT. If StarOS adds a new advanced routing protocol MT users can switch with only the change of an AP and gain the full advantage and in some cases they doesn't even have to change AP hardware. If Smartbridges equipment goes to crap you can change to Senao, if Senao EOLs a CPE you can switch to Tranzeo. In the Premium world if Trango decides to EOL a line of equipment or manufacturing quality tanks you are stuck with: 1. buy refurb/used equipment 2. hang dual APs to handle new growth 3. swap equipment around in your network so that vendor/product A is on the east side of your coverage area... 4. Replace CPEs with new line of product There is a LOT more to the certified debate than the fact that Motorola, Trango and Alvarion have finally gotten CPE price down to $200. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Patrick Leary wrote: Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry? Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious? Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 -- that's cheap. My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable 5.8G cpe suggestions? RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious. If you are sticker conscious I use the Tranzeo TR5a-24/20 with MT/CM9 setups and they work great. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless rabbtux rabbtux wrote: Not to stir the fcc sticker debate, but what gear is out there today that is compatable with a MT/SR5 access point? Looking for lower cost CPEs for 1-5 mile deployments. Thanks -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman
using equipment from overseas companies Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????
Hi, The following question seems germaine to this thread. Who would I talk to at the FCC about the following: -- if I want to use equipment from an overseas-based manufacturer, where would I go to or who could I talk to at the FCC to know certification procedures, equipment allowed or not in licensed or unlicensed spectrum? -- is there a list of FCC approved manufacturers? Thanks. Mario -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simplyabout beingstickerconscious or not??
Mark: But, the FACT of the matter is by slapping together that collection of pieces to make a radio that you will deploy for commercial, revenue service as a telecommunications service provider is ILLEGAL. You make a compelling case that the pieces parts systems you're describing are far more innovative than what's currently on the market from the larger vendors... but ultimately irrelevant. That you don't THINK putting together pieces parts radios for use in the US without going through the formality of FCC certification as a system SHOULD be illegal is irrelevant. Thanks, Steve On Feb 18, 2007, at Feb 18 09:07 PM, wispa wrote: On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 20:52:04 -0800, Patrick Leary wrote George, ones person's innovation is something that might another person nothing but migraines. If you think you getting cutting edge innovation and state of the art technology from the uncertified manufacturers I don't know what to tell you except your technology exposure may be a bit narrow. But Patrick, it's NOT uncertified manufacturers as if we're talking about some big greedy corporation. Unless you refer to me. Or the guy down the street. Or even the woman over in the next town. Or THOUSANDS of people all over the world who find that what they want to do is either not supported by something off the shelf, or never even conceived by some engineer, or didn't make it past the marketing and budgeting departments. Download an open and free bit of Linux. Buy a surplus CPU board. Buy whatever radio module you want or need. Put it in a box and VIOLA, you already have more features most WISP Network operators wnat, than Alvarion can figure out how to put in a box. Does it have cutting edge RF qualities? Nope. Does it have Cisco quality routing? Nope. Does it have -100 to +200 degree temperature range? Nope. But, none of those are required. I don't have to the BEST rf front end and features to be successful. I just have to have to have the ones I find necessary, and the ability to get those things changed I need changed. And these people are endlessly exploring and refining mesh networks, customer controls, routing, etc, etc... and THEY NEVER STOP. So, if I want the lowest priced VL stuff to route and do NAT at the customer's end, will Alvarion build it in for me? No? Gee, that's already in the FREE stuff. Huh. Next time you whine that there's uncertified manufacturers, you're talking about the workshops, desks, garages, offices, or even spare bedrooms of THOUSANDS and thousands of people spread all around the country. And we shoulid NOT be stifled by a rigid and corporate-centric regulatory straightjacket. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- Steve Stroh 425-939-0076 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Writing about BWIA again! - http://www.bwianews.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simplyabout beingstickerconscious or not??
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 08:58:02 -0800, Steve Stroh wrote Mark: But, the FACT of the matter is by slapping together that collection of pieces to make a radio that you will deploy for commercial, revenue service as a telecommunications service provider is ILLEGAL. But Steve, many of these people are NOT deploying a commercial service provider. Some of them are just hobbyists. Some of them are just networking their back yard. Some of them are building community free networks. Some of them are doing it to make money. Some of them are just doing it because they can and find it fun and intersting. Patrick called ALL of these illegal manufacturers. You make a compelling case that the pieces parts systems you're describing are far more innovative than what's currently on the market from the larger vendors... but ultimately irrelevant. How's it irrelevant? I make no claims that because it's a good idea or workable, that the law can't be followed. I'm arguing that it's a change we should try to get done. That you don't THINK putting together pieces parts radios for use in the US without going through the formality of FCC certification as a system SHOULD be illegal is irrelevant. It's relevant, as to why we should lobby for change, Steve. Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being stickerconscious or not??
Hold your Horses there Sir Patrick! There was one comment that used that in their post - I don't think that we as an industry have evolved to that level of degradation in dealing with the laws of the land air. There will always be renegades in every avenue of life, but we are not in that classification :-) and given a little time we will be someone to be reckoned with as the industry leader in wireless across this country. I must admit that I have learned a few things in the past week - or had some things clarified that were quite an awakening for me and a few others. I (for one) will not deploy even one more piece of hardware that is not FCC certified. I have in the last year deployed many unlicensed access points back haul radios though. I made a terrible mistake in doing that, but I was under a false impression of what was legal. The path we will follow from this point on is what is really going to count. I do happen to know of two manufacturers who have gear at FCC certification labs today undergoing their certifications for some specific pieces of their gear. This is something that should have taken place a couple years ago, but now is better than never. I realize that is not going to affect the gear I have in the air today from these guys as it can not be certified - ever - even if they happen to get the exact gear certified that I have on towers today. I think this last visit WISPA members (Thanks men) made to the FCC clarified several things that needed clarification: 1. FILLOUT THOSE FORMS! The FCC is not out to get us. They need the data that only we can supply them - like who we are, where we are (zip code), how many subs...Etc This is their way of helping us. With out this data they can only guess how many we are, how many we serve and the actual coverage area total. Guys - y'all please fill out the form 477 - - it's a good thing for us all. 2. WE ARE NOT LEGAL EVEN IF WE ARE NOT OVER POWERED OR OUT OF BAND. I am not going into any details here because that is stated just as simple as it can get. Sincerely, Mac Dearman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:33 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being stickerconscious or not?? Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry? Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious? Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 -- that's cheap. My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable 5.8G cpe suggestions? RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious. If you are sticker conscious I use the Tranzeo TR5a-24/20 with MT/CM9 setups and they work great. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless rabbtux rabbtux wrote: Not to stir the fcc sticker debate, but what gear is out there today that is compatable with a MT/SR5 access point? Looking for lower cost CPEs for 1-5 mile deployments. Thanks -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(42). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses.
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being stickerconscious or not??
I try to keep a low profile around here, you listen twice and speak once. Wispa membership has been a good experience for me. However, Patrick has once again, been the HIGH MiGHTY, and jumped all over my one phrase. I did not mean to imply anything illegal about my in tensions, other than I might re-use/re-deploy existing equipment. What I do know now, is that Alvaron is off my shopping list for a long time now, due to their over zealous employee. I also know that more of my posts will go to the members-only list to avoid this nonsense. On 2/18/07, Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hold your Horses there Sir Patrick! There was one comment that used that in their post - I don't think that we as an industry have evolved to that level of degradation in dealing with the laws of the land air. There will always be renegades in every avenue of life, but we are not in that classification :-) and given a little time we will be someone to be reckoned with as the industry leader in wireless across this country. I must admit that I have learned a few things in the past week - or had some things clarified that were quite an awakening for me and a few others. I (for one) will not deploy even one more piece of hardware that is not FCC certified. I have in the last year deployed many unlicensed access points back haul radios though. I made a terrible mistake in doing that, but I was under a false impression of what was legal. The path we will follow from this point on is what is really going to count. I do happen to know of two manufacturers who have gear at FCC certification labs today undergoing their certifications for some specific pieces of their gear. This is something that should have taken place a couple years ago, but now is better than never. I realize that is not going to affect the gear I have in the air today from these guys as it can not be certified - ever - even if they happen to get the exact gear certified that I have on towers today. I think this last visit WISPA members (Thanks men) made to the FCC clarified several things that needed clarification: 1. FILLOUT THOSE FORMS! The FCC is not out to get us. They need the data that only we can supply them - like who we are, where we are (zip code), how many subs...Etc This is their way of helping us. With out this data they can only guess how many we are, how many we serve and the actual coverage area total. Guys - y'all please fill out the form 477 - - it's a good thing for us all. 2. WE ARE NOT LEGAL EVEN IF WE ARE NOT OVER POWERED OR OUT OF BAND. I am not going into any details here because that is stated just as simple as it can get. Sincerely, Mac Dearman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:33 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being stickerconscious or not?? Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry? Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious? Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 -- that's cheap. My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable 5.8G cpe suggestions? RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious. If you are sticker conscious I use the Tranzeo TR5a-24/20 with MT/CM9 setups and they work great. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless rabbtux rabbtux wrote: Not to stir the fcc sticker debate, but what gear is out there today that is compatable with a MT/SR5 access point? Looking for lower cost CPEs for 1-5 mile deployments. Thanks -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190).
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being stickerconscious or not??
rabbtux rabbtux wrote: I try to keep a low profile around here, you listen twice and speak once. Wispa membership has been a good experience for me. However, Patrick has once again, been the HIGH MiGHTY, and jumped all over my one phrase. I did not mean to imply anything illegal about my in tensions, other than I might re-use/re-deploy existing equipment. What I do know now, is that Alvaron is off my shopping list for a long time now, due to their over zealous employee. I also know that more of my posts will go to the members-only list to avoid this nonsense. Ditto for me, the guy just can't control himself. Gosh, it's like he's manic that just goes on and on and on and on -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being stickerconscious or not??
Oh, let me add one thing though, the members only list is free of vendors pitching their wares or bragging about their past or trying to influence through propaganda.. Of course it's only open to paying WISPA members. But it is fairly private. George Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being stickerconscious or not??
Patrick, Please just pick up the phone and contact the FCC yourself. Apply for the job, get a shiny badge and go out on the range to take down all of the Illegal wisps you see out there. Every other email from you on this list (even when the thread starts with someone asking for advice) ends with an email from Patrick talking about OMG WTFBBQ!one!!!eleven111!! that is illegal! Honestly, you are starting to sound like my nutty neighbor that measures the distance from my bumper to the stop sign every time I park. If you are going to be all ranty about this stuff, you may want to remove your employer's domain name from your sig line. At this point I would be hesitant to use a vendor that shouted OMG YOU ARE ILLEGAL all the time. ryan On Feb 18, 2007, at 11:36 AM, rabbtux rabbtux wrote: I try to keep a low profile around here, you listen twice and speak once. Wispa membership has been a good experience for me. However, Patrick has once again, been the HIGH MiGHTY, and jumped all over my one phrase. I did not mean to imply anything illegal about my in tensions, other than I might re-use/re-deploy existing equipment. What I do know now, is that Alvaron is off my shopping list for a long time now, due to their over zealous employee. I also know that more of my posts will go to the members-only list to avoid this nonsense. On 2/18/07, Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hold your Horses there Sir Patrick! There was one comment that used that in their post - I don't think that we as an industry have evolved to that level of degradation in dealing with the laws of the land air. There will always be renegades in every avenue of life, but we are not in that classification :-) and given a little time we will be someone to be reckoned with as the industry leader in wireless across this country. I must admit that I have learned a few things in the past week - or had some things clarified that were quite an awakening for me and a few others. I (for one) will not deploy even one more piece of hardware that is not FCC certified. I have in the last year deployed many unlicensed access points back haul radios though. I made a terrible mistake in doing that, but I was under a false impression of what was legal. The path we will follow from this point on is what is really going to count. I do happen to know of two manufacturers who have gear at FCC certification labs today undergoing their certifications for some specific pieces of their gear. This is something that should have taken place a couple years ago, but now is better than never. I realize that is not going to affect the gear I have in the air today from these guys as it can not be certified - ever - even if they happen to get the exact gear certified that I have on towers today. I think this last visit WISPA members (Thanks men) made to the FCC clarified several things that needed clarification: 1. FILLOUT THOSE FORMS! The FCC is not out to get us. They need the data that only we can supply them - like who we are, where we are (zip code), how many subs...Etc This is their way of helping us. With out this data they can only guess how many we are, how many we serve and the actual coverage area total. Guys - y'all please fill out the form 477 - - it's a good thing for us all. 2. WE ARE NOT LEGAL EVEN IF WE ARE NOT OVER POWERED OR OUT OF BAND. I am not going into any details here because that is stated just as simple as it can get. Sincerely, Mac Dearman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:33 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being stickerconscious or not?? Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry? Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious? Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub- $300 -- that's cheap. My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable 5.8G cpe suggestions? RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious. If you are sticker conscious
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being stickerconscious or not??
Your competitors thank you for ignoring some of the best gear on the market. I'm not an Alvarion proponent, or apologist. There's lots of other good gear on the market that's the equal of Alvarion. But in no other segment of the telecommunications industry are BASIC, FUNDAMENTAL, CRITICAL decisions that go straight to the fundamental success of a WISP's business as their choice of gear are decided by one person's emotions, as they are in the WISP industry. Sheesh... That Patrick IS speaking fundamental truths that you don't want to hear because they're inconvenient or simply irritating... and you're deciding that you're not going to buy Alvarion gear because of that??? Like I said, your competitors thank you for making bad business choices so that they won't have to compete with you much longer. Thanks, Steve On Feb 18, 2007, at Feb 18 11:36 AM, rabbtux rabbtux wrote: I try to keep a low profile around here, you listen twice and speak once. Wispa membership has been a good experience for me. However, Patrick has once again, been the HIGH MiGHTY, and jumped all over my one phrase. I did not mean to imply anything illegal about my in tensions, other than I might re-use/re-deploy existing equipment. What I do know now, is that Alvaron is off my shopping list for a long time now, due to their over zealous employee. I also know that more of my posts will go to the members-only list to avoid this nonsense. --- Steve Stroh 425-939-0076 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Writing about BWIA again! - http://www.bwianews.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being stickerconscious or not??
Steve, problem is not in Patricks message, for sure they are real and we should be thankful that he wants to help. Issue as I see it is, he dominates the list more than some care to read as a vendor. If he toned it down some, he would be doing himself justice. Also, Although Alvarion is a good product, so ain't Trango, Moto, and the others. I doubt the competitors are happy he is not using Alvarion. I bet they would not be very happy to hear he was using Moto and not being co-operative. George Steve Stroh wrote: Your competitors thank you for ignoring some of the best gear on the market. I'm not an Alvarion proponent, or apologist. There's lots of other good gear on the market that's the equal of Alvarion. But in no other segment of the telecommunications industry are BASIC, FUNDAMENTAL, CRITICAL decisions that go straight to the fundamental success of a WISP's business as their choice of gear are decided by one person's emotions, as they are in the WISP industry. Sheesh... That Patrick IS speaking fundamental truths that you don't want to hear because they're inconvenient or simply irritating... and you're deciding that you're not going to buy Alvarion gear because of that??? Like I said, your competitors thank you for making bad business choices so that they won't have to compete with you much longer. Thanks, Steve On Feb 18, 2007, at Feb 18 11:36 AM, rabbtux rabbtux wrote: I try to keep a low profile around here, you listen twice and speak once. Wispa membership has been a good experience for me. However, Patrick has once again, been the HIGH MiGHTY, and jumped all over my one phrase. I did not mean to imply anything illegal about my in tensions, other than I might re-use/re-deploy existing equipment. What I do know now, is that Alvaron is off my shopping list for a long time now, due to their over zealous employee. I also know that more of my posts will go to the members-only list to avoid this nonsense. --- Steve Stroh 425-939-0076 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Writing about BWIA again! - http://www.bwianews.com -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being sticker conscious or not??
-snip- That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 -- that's cheap. -snip- Patrick, your input on low cost 5.8 CPEs is appreciated. Please let me know where I can purchase 5.8G CPEs at $170? We need to purchase 1-5 units at a time. Is there an Alvarion product to meet this need?? On 2/18/07, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry? Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious? Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 -- that's cheap. My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable 5.8G cpe suggestions? RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious. If you are sticker conscious I use the Tranzeo TR5a-24/20 with MT/CM9 setups and they work great. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless rabbtux rabbtux wrote: Not to stir the fcc sticker debate, but what gear is out there today that is compatable with a MT/SR5 access point? Looking for lower cost CPEs for 1-5 mile deployments. Thanks -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(42). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????
Many of you probably don't follow the FCC much, so let me tell you about the stroke of a pen: UNE-P which was the magic bullet for CLECs. No facilities needed. Rock bottom pricing on voice lines. Market and sell. Z-Tel and a few others had over 500k lines. Unfortunately, they didn't listen when they were told it would be a stop gap to facilities. In other words, sell UNE-P regionally and convert to facilities. No one listened. Bang! UNE-P ruled no more. One year to move to facilities. Z-Tel just filed BK, following many others that area shadow of their UNE-P selves. Another example: DSL. One day it is tariffed. Bang! No tariff. Go nego with the ILEC. So please heed the warning about 5.4. It won't take much prodding from DoD to wipe oout your business model. This is NOT a threat, folks. This is how telecom regulations works in the US. So skip the forms - 445 and 477. Keep using the unlincesed gear. Next year you can all be pirates. That's okay, because you can celebrate *Gasparilla* Pirate Fest in Tampa after that. Plus you say all this stuff on a PUBLIC, archived email list. DUH! Regards, Peter @ RAD-INFO, Inc. Patrick Leary wrote: Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry? Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious? Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 -- that's cheap. My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????
Hi, You make good points... however, the better question is how much money did Z-Tel take out of the business during this time? I would bet the owners and investors made BIG money during this time... so, so what if they are out of business now? If they made millions during that time, then it worked out for them. Same for DSL. I know there are companies that are going or gone now, but that made millions in profits during the past 5 years. Yes, DoD may have a little more push with the FCC, but, who's to say someone can't buy 5.4ghz right now today and put it up? Any user with internet access could order and install a 5.4ghz AP tomorrow for less than $300... Travis Peter R. wrote: Many of you probably don't follow the FCC much, so let me tell you about the stroke of a pen: UNE-P which was the magic bullet for CLECs. No facilities needed. Rock bottom pricing on voice lines. Market and sell. Z-Tel and a few others had over 500k lines. Unfortunately, they didn't listen when they were told it would be a stop gap to facilities. In other words, sell UNE-P regionally and convert to facilities. No one listened. Bang! UNE-P ruled no more. One year to move to facilities. Z-Tel just filed BK, following many others that area shadow of their UNE-P selves. Another example: DSL. One day it is tariffed. Bang! No tariff. Go nego with the ILEC. So please heed the warning about 5.4. It won't take much prodding from DoD to wipe oout your business model. This is NOT a threat, folks. This is how telecom regulations works in the US. So skip the forms - 445 and 477. Keep using the unlincesed gear. Next year you can all be pirates. That's okay, because you can celebrate *Gasparilla* Pirate Fest in Tampa after that. Plus you say all this stuff on a PUBLIC, archived email list. DUH! Regards, Peter @ RAD-INFO, Inc. Patrick Leary wrote: Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry? Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious? Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 -- that's cheap. My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????
Travis, Are saying you are using 5.4 GHz radios in the US? Scriv Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, You make good points... however, the better question is how much money did Z-Tel take out of the business during this time? I would bet the owners and investors made BIG money during this time... so, so what if they are out of business now? If they made millions during that time, then it worked out for them. Same for DSL. I know there are companies that are going or gone now, but that made millions in profits during the past 5 years. Yes, DoD may have a little more push with the FCC, but, who's to say someone can't buy 5.4ghz right now today and put it up? Any user with internet access could order and install a 5.4ghz AP tomorrow for less than $300... Travis Peter R. wrote: Many of you probably don't follow the FCC much, so let me tell you about the stroke of a pen: UNE-P which was the magic bullet for CLECs. No facilities needed. Rock bottom pricing on voice lines. Market and sell. Z-Tel and a few others had over 500k lines. Unfortunately, they didn't listen when they were told it would be a stop gap to facilities. In other words, sell UNE-P regionally and convert to facilities. No one listened. Bang! UNE-P ruled no more. One year to move to facilities. Z-Tel just filed BK, following many others that area shadow of their UNE-P selves. Another example: DSL. One day it is tariffed. Bang! No tariff. Go nego with the ILEC. So please heed the warning about 5.4. It won't take much prodding from DoD to wipe oout your business model. This is NOT a threat, folks. This is how telecom regulations works in the US. So skip the forms - 445 and 477. Keep using the unlincesed gear. Next year you can all be pirates. That's okay, because you can celebrate *Gasparilla* Pirate Fest in Tampa after that. Plus you say all this stuff on a PUBLIC, archived email list. DUH! Regards, Peter @ RAD-INFO, Inc. Patrick Leary wrote: Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry? Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious? Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 -- that's cheap. My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????
Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, You make good points... however, the better question is how much money did Z-Tel take out of the business during this time? I would bet the owners and investors made BIG money during this time... so, so what if they are out of business now? If they made millions during that time, then it worked out for them. --- How is this the better question? -- How much can I make before the door closes? - Did some CLEC investors make a killing? Sure. Employees and shareholders not so much. Consumers got burned. CLEC Industry takes another black eye. Same for DSL. I know there are companies that are going or gone now, but that made millions in profits during the past 5 years. -- Not in profits. No DLEC has ever been profitable. Playing the stock would make you some money probably. Yes, DoD may have a little more push with the FCC, but, who's to say someone can't buy 5.4ghz right now today and put it up? Any user with internet access could order and install a 5.4ghz AP tomorrow for less than $300... Travis -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????
John, Maybe I missed something, but how do you get from Travis' statement that any user could do it, to questioning Travis as to whether that was a claim to have done it himself? John Vogel John Scrivner wrote: Travis, Are saying you are using 5.4 GHz radios in the US? Scriv Travis Johnson wrote: snip Yes, DoD may have a little more push with the FCC, but, who's to say someone can't buy 5.4ghz right now today and put it up? Any user with internet access could order and install a 5.4ghz AP tomorrow for less than $300... Travis -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????
No kidding. So...in one breath you're saying WISPA isn't playing the FCC Cop, and in another you make a completely unfounded comment like this? shaking head I must have missed where Travis said he was deploying 5.4GHz APs and thumbing his nose at the FCC. Geesh, what an outlandish and overreaching comment from John Scrivner. Talk about FUD. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J. Vogel Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 6:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ? John, Maybe I missed something, but how do you get from Travis' statement that any user could do it, to questioning Travis as to whether that was a claim to have done it himself? John Vogel John Scrivner wrote: Travis, Are saying you are using 5.4 GHz radios in the US? Scriv Travis Johnson wrote: snip Yes, DoD may have a little more push with the FCC, but, who's to say someone can't buy 5.4ghz right now today and put it up? Any user with internet access could order and install a 5.4ghz AP tomorrow for less than $300... Travis -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about beingstickerconscious or not??
Mac, That's good news that some previously illegal gear is now undergoing FCC certification. It is good for everyone, regardless of what finally led them to earn it. As WISPs, you should use that cert as a minimum litmus test, because it will tell you much more than just the cert itself; it tells you that the vendor actual is concerned about YOUR business, not just the money that can made off you. You should say to any illegal vendor that you might use, You know, I like your features and price, but before I undertake any more study about the possibility of buying your gear you need have your system FCC certified. Do that and those guys will change their habits in a hurry. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mac Dearman Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:17 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about beingstickerconscious or not?? Hold your Horses there Sir Patrick! There was one comment that used that in their post - I don't think that we as an industry have evolved to that level of degradation in dealing with the laws of the land air. There will always be renegades in every avenue of life, but we are not in that classification :-) and given a little time we will be someone to be reckoned with as the industry leader in wireless across this country. I must admit that I have learned a few things in the past week - or had some things clarified that were quite an awakening for me and a few others. I (for one) will not deploy even one more piece of hardware that is not FCC certified. I have in the last year deployed many unlicensed access points back haul radios though. I made a terrible mistake in doing that, but I was under a false impression of what was legal. The path we will follow from this point on is what is really going to count. I do happen to know of two manufacturers who have gear at FCC certification labs today undergoing their certifications for some specific pieces of their gear. This is something that should have taken place a couple years ago, but now is better than never. I realize that is not going to affect the gear I have in the air today from these guys as it can not be certified - ever - even if they happen to get the exact gear certified that I have on towers today. I think this last visit WISPA members (Thanks men) made to the FCC clarified several things that needed clarification: 1. FILLOUT THOSE FORMS! The FCC is not out to get us. They need the data that only we can supply them - like who we are, where we are (zip code), how many subs...Etc This is their way of helping us. With out this data they can only guess how many we are, how many we serve and the actual coverage area total. Guys - y'all please fill out the form 477 - - it's a good thing for us all. 2. WE ARE NOT LEGAL EVEN IF WE ARE NOT OVER POWERED OR OUT OF BAND. I am not going into any details here because that is stated just as simple as it can get. Sincerely, Mac Dearman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:33 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being stickerconscious or not?? Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry? Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious? Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 -- that's cheap. My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable 5.8G cpe suggestions? RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious. If you are sticker conscious I use the Tranzeo TR5a-24/20 with MT/CM9 setups and they work great. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless rabbtux rabbtux wrote: Not to stir the fcc sticker debate, but what gear is out there today that is compatable with a MT/SR5 access point? Looking for lower cost CPEs for 1-5 mile deployments. Thanks -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about beingstickerconscious or not??
Ho ho ho Patrick, So, to add to the list of reasons why a lot of wisps use uncertified gear. One reason that was exposed, was that manufacturers were not keeping up with technology fast enough and the kit systems offered newer technology and allowed a wisp to be more innovative What say you Mr. Leary? Has Alvarion been keeping up fast enough? George (oh yeah, I also think there was a lot of crap slung as cpe's) Patrick Leary wrote: Mac, That's good news that some previously illegal gear is now undergoing FCC certification. It is good for everyone, regardless of what finally led them to earn it. As WISPs, you should use that cert as a minimum litmus test, because it will tell you much more than just the cert itself; it tells you that the vendor actual is concerned about YOUR business, not just the money that can made off you. You should say to any illegal vendor that you might use, You know, I like your features and price, but before I undertake any more study about the possibility of buying your gear you need have your system FCC certified. Do that and those guys will change their habits in a hurry. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mac Dearman Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:17 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about beingstickerconscious or not?? Hold your Horses there Sir Patrick! There was one comment that used that in their post - I don't think that we as an industry have evolved to that level of degradation in dealing with the laws of the land air. There will always be renegades in every avenue of life, but we are not in that classification :-) and given a little time we will be someone to be reckoned with as the industry leader in wireless across this country. I must admit that I have learned a few things in the past week - or had some things clarified that were quite an awakening for me and a few others. I (for one) will not deploy even one more piece of hardware that is not FCC certified. I have in the last year deployed many unlicensed access points back haul radios though. I made a terrible mistake in doing that, but I was under a false impression of what was legal. The path we will follow from this point on is what is really going to count. I do happen to know of two manufacturers who have gear at FCC certification labs today undergoing their certifications for some specific pieces of their gear. This is something that should have taken place a couple years ago, but now is better than never. I realize that is not going to affect the gear I have in the air today from these guys as it can not be certified - ever - even if they happen to get the exact gear certified that I have on towers today. I think this last visit WISPA members (Thanks men) made to the FCC clarified several things that needed clarification: 1. FILLOUT THOSE FORMS! The FCC is not out to get us. They need the data that only we can supply them - like who we are, where we are (zip code), how many subs...Etc This is their way of helping us. With out this data they can only guess how many we are, how many we serve and the actual coverage area total. Guys - y'all please fill out the form 477 - - it's a good thing for us all. 2. WE ARE NOT LEGAL EVEN IF WE ARE NOT OVER POWERED OR OUT OF BAND. I am not going into any details here because that is stated just as simple as it can get. Sincerely, Mac Dearman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:33 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being stickerconscious or not?? Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry? Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious? Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 -- that's cheap. My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable 5.8G cpe suggestions? RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious. If you
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????
No. I am saying anyone with an internet account, credit card and shipping address could purchase 5.4ghz equipment TODAY and deploy it TODAY. Granted its not FCC certified and not technically legal right now... but, it could be done. Travis John Scrivner wrote: Travis, Are saying you are using 5.4 GHz radios in the US? Scriv Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, You make good points... however, the better question is how much money did Z-Tel take out of the business during this time? I would bet the owners and investors made BIG money during this time... so, so what if they are out of business now? If they made millions during that time, then it worked out for them. Same for DSL. I know there are companies that are going or gone now, but that made millions in profits during the past 5 years. Yes, DoD may have a little more push with the FCC, but, who's to say someone can't buy 5.4ghz right now today and put it up? Any user with internet access could order and install a 5.4ghz AP tomorrow for less than $300... Travis Peter R. wrote: Many of you probably don't follow the FCC much, so let me tell you about the stroke of a pen: UNE-P which was the magic bullet for CLECs. No facilities needed. Rock bottom pricing on voice lines. Market and sell. Z-Tel and a few others had over 500k lines. Unfortunately, they didn't listen when they were told it would be a stop gap to facilities. In other words, sell UNE-P regionally and convert to facilities. No one listened. Bang! UNE-P ruled no more. One year to move to facilities. Z-Tel just filed BK, following many others that area shadow of their UNE-P selves. Another example: DSL. One day it is tariffed. Bang! No tariff. Go nego with the ILEC. So please heed the warning about 5.4. It won't take much prodding from DoD to wipe oout your business model. This is NOT a threat, folks. This is how telecom regulations works in the US. So skip the forms - 445 and 477. Keep using the unlincesed gear. Next year you can all be pirates. That's okay, because you can celebrate *Gasparilla* Pirate Fest in Tampa after that. Plus you say all this stuff on a PUBLIC, archived email list. DUH! Regards, Peter @ RAD-INFO, Inc. Patrick Leary wrote: Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry? Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious? Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 -- that's cheap. My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about beingstickerconscious or not??
Strange as it may seem Rabbtux, you'll not find me saying Oh no, I've gone too far because this guy won't buy my gear now. I will remain consistent and provocative. For sure no other vendor has the chutzpah to do it (or maybe cares about WISPs enough to do it) and someone has to lead. Playing nice on this subject gets the industry no where and there is nothing inconsistent or hypocritical about my statements. This is not about arrogance except to the extent that many of you really don't know how serious this is getting and what's at risk. You are necessarily tending to your businesses, and that's largely as it should be. I am more plugged in than the vast majority of you (that's not a boast, just simple statement of fact) and that gives me some responsibility or I can just ignore it and let the chips fall where they are headed. But, I do have the ability to help be a catalyst; I've done it many times in ways that can be documented. You can call that arrogance, but it's also the truth and credibility and influence is wasted if not used to the greater benefit. It about the future of the industry and that's worth more than a few ruffled feathers and what some of you think must be the loss of a few radios to Alvarion. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of rabbtux rabbtux Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about beingstickerconscious or not?? I try to keep a low profile around here, you listen twice and speak once. Wispa membership has been a good experience for me. However, Patrick has once again, been the HIGH MiGHTY, and jumped all over my one phrase. I did not mean to imply anything illegal about my in tensions, other than I might re-use/re-deploy existing equipment. What I do know now, is that Alvaron is off my shopping list for a long time now, due to their over zealous employee. I also know that more of my posts will go to the members-only list to avoid this nonsense. On 2/18/07, Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hold your Horses there Sir Patrick! There was one comment that used that in their post - I don't think that we as an industry have evolved to that level of degradation in dealing with the laws of the land air. There will always be renegades in every avenue of life, but we are not in that classification :-) and given a little time we will be someone to be reckoned with as the industry leader in wireless across this country. I must admit that I have learned a few things in the past week - or had some things clarified that were quite an awakening for me and a few others. I (for one) will not deploy even one more piece of hardware that is not FCC certified. I have in the last year deployed many unlicensed access points back haul radios though. I made a terrible mistake in doing that, but I was under a false impression of what was legal. The path we will follow from this point on is what is really going to count. I do happen to know of two manufacturers who have gear at FCC certification labs today undergoing their certifications for some specific pieces of their gear. This is something that should have taken place a couple years ago, but now is better than never. I realize that is not going to affect the gear I have in the air today from these guys as it can not be certified - ever - even if they happen to get the exact gear certified that I have on towers today. I think this last visit WISPA members (Thanks men) made to the FCC clarified several things that needed clarification: 1. FILLOUT THOSE FORMS! The FCC is not out to get us. They need the data that only we can supply them - like who we are, where we are (zip code), how many subs...Etc This is their way of helping us. With out this data they can only guess how many we are, how many we serve and the actual coverage area total. Guys - y'all please fill out the form 477 - - it's a good thing for us all. 2. WE ARE NOT LEGAL EVEN IF WE ARE NOT OVER POWERED OR OUT OF BAND. I am not going into any details here because that is stated just as simple as it can get. Sincerely, Mac Dearman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:33 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being stickerconscious or not?? Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry? Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious? Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I don't give a ? Let's not have any
RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about beingsticker conscious or not??
That'd be Tranzeo. Not sure the volume that gets you that price, but I know some who pay that for their 802.11a stuff. It has some nice features, to include even 5 MHz channels. Tranzeo is doing lots of things right and they've earned the loyalty of some WISPs I respect hugely, and that's good enough for me. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of rabbtux rabbtux Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 2:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about beingsticker conscious or not?? -snip- That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 -- that's cheap. -snip- Patrick, your input on low cost 5.8 CPEs is appreciated. Please let me know where I can purchase 5.8G CPEs at $170? We need to purchase 1-5 units at a time. Is there an Alvarion product to meet this need?? On 2/18/07, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry? Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious? Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 -- that's cheap. My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable 5.8G cpe suggestions? RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious. If you are sticker conscious I use the Tranzeo TR5a-24/20 with MT/CM9 setups and they work great. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless rabbtux rabbtux wrote: Not to stir the fcc sticker debate, but what gear is out there today that is compatable with a MT/SR5 access point? Looking for lower cost CPEs for 1-5 mile deployments. Thanks -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(42). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure
RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simplyabout beingstickerconscious or not??
George, ones person's innovation is something that might another person nothing but migraines. If you think you getting cutting edge innovation and state of the art technology from the uncertified manufacturers I don't know what to tell you except your technology exposure may be a bit narrow. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 5:55 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simplyabout beingstickerconscious or not?? Ho ho ho Patrick, So, to add to the list of reasons why a lot of wisps use uncertified gear. One reason that was exposed, was that manufacturers were not keeping up with technology fast enough and the kit systems offered newer technology and allowed a wisp to be more innovative What say you Mr. Leary? Has Alvarion been keeping up fast enough? George (oh yeah, I also think there was a lot of crap slung as cpe's) Patrick Leary wrote: Mac, That's good news that some previously illegal gear is now undergoing FCC certification. It is good for everyone, regardless of what finally led them to earn it. As WISPs, you should use that cert as a minimum litmus test, because it will tell you much more than just the cert itself; it tells you that the vendor actual is concerned about YOUR business, not just the money that can made off you. You should say to any illegal vendor that you might use, You know, I like your features and price, but before I undertake any more study about the possibility of buying your gear you need have your system FCC certified. Do that and those guys will change their habits in a hurry. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mac Dearman Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:17 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about beingstickerconscious or not?? Hold your Horses there Sir Patrick! There was one comment that used that in their post - I don't think that we as an industry have evolved to that level of degradation in dealing with the laws of the land air. There will always be renegades in every avenue of life, but we are not in that classification :-) and given a little time we will be someone to be reckoned with as the industry leader in wireless across this country. I must admit that I have learned a few things in the past week - or had some things clarified that were quite an awakening for me and a few others. I (for one) will not deploy even one more piece of hardware that is not FCC certified. I have in the last year deployed many unlicensed access points back haul radios though. I made a terrible mistake in doing that, but I was under a false impression of what was legal. The path we will follow from this point on is what is really going to count. I do happen to know of two manufacturers who have gear at FCC certification labs today undergoing their certifications for some specific pieces of their gear. This is something that should have taken place a couple years ago, but now is better than never. I realize that is not going to affect the gear I have in the air today from these guys as it can not be certified - ever - even if they happen to get the exact gear certified that I have on towers today. I think this last visit WISPA members (Thanks men) made to the FCC clarified several things that needed clarification: 1. FILLOUT THOSE FORMS! The FCC is not out to get us. They need the data that only we can supply them - like who we are, where we are (zip code), how many subs...Etc This is their way of helping us. With out this data they can only guess how many we are, how many we serve and the actual coverage area total. Guys - y'all please fill out the form 477 - - it's a good thing for us all. 2. WE ARE NOT LEGAL EVEN IF WE ARE NOT OVER POWERED OR OUT OF BAND. I am not going into any details here because that is stated just as simple as it can get. Sincerely, Mac Dearman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:33 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being stickerconscious or not?? Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry? Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious? Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I don't give
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about beingsticker conscious or not??
Great. I looked into it. From the Tranzeo website, I find the TR5a series for $367, and the lowest cost 5Ghz unit at $287 (16db antenna) which isn't good for the 4-5 mile range. I doubt they will cut prices to $170 for an order of 5. Is there somewhere else I can look, Tranzeo looks like nice gear. On 2/18/07, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That'd be Tranzeo. Not sure the volume that gets you that price, but I know some who pay that for their 802.11a stuff. It has some nice features, to include even 5 MHz channels. Tranzeo is doing lots of things right and they've earned the loyalty of some WISPs I respect hugely, and that's good enough for me. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of rabbtux rabbtux Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 2:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about beingsticker conscious or not?? -snip- That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 -- that's cheap. -snip- Patrick, your input on low cost 5.8 CPEs is appreciated. Please let me know where I can purchase 5.8G CPEs at $170? We need to purchase 1-5 units at a time. Is there an Alvarion product to meet this need?? On 2/18/07, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry? Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious? Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 -- that's cheap. My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable 5.8G cpe suggestions? RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious. If you are sticker conscious I use the Tranzeo TR5a-24/20 with MT/CM9 setups and they work great. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless rabbtux rabbtux wrote: Not to stir the fcc sticker debate, but what gear is out there today that is compatable with a MT/SR5 access point? Looking for lower cost CPEs for 1-5 mile deployments. Thanks -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(42). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simplyabout beingstickerconscious or not??
Aw come on now. Thats was just a not well thought out hip shot slur. Fact was you just said Tranzeo you admired. They were innovative. Been there for 5 years now. I used them when you were selling FHSS as the ultimate 2.4 solution. Here is you chance, list your companies innovations by chronological order starting the day you took the evangelist job up until now, and I will demonstrate to you, how the big manufacturers hold us up. Again, not a rub against Alvarion, I truly respect your company, but, I want to make a point here. George Patrick Leary wrote: George, ones person's innovation is something that might another person nothing but migraines. If you think you getting cutting edge innovation and state of the art technology from the uncertified manufacturers I don't know what to tell you except your technology exposure may be a bit narrow. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 5:55 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simplyabout beingstickerconscious or not?? Ho ho ho Patrick, So, to add to the list of reasons why a lot of wisps use uncertified gear. One reason that was exposed, was that manufacturers were not keeping up with technology fast enough and the kit systems offered newer technology and allowed a wisp to be more innovative What say you Mr. Leary? Has Alvarion been keeping up fast enough? George (oh yeah, I also think there was a lot of crap slung as cpe's) Patrick Leary wrote: Mac, That's good news that some previously illegal gear is now undergoing FCC certification. It is good for everyone, regardless of what finally led them to earn it. As WISPs, you should use that cert as a minimum litmus test, because it will tell you much more than just the cert itself; it tells you that the vendor actual is concerned about YOUR business, not just the money that can made off you. You should say to any illegal vendor that you might use, You know, I like your features and price, but before I undertake any more study about the possibility of buying your gear you need have your system FCC certified. Do that and those guys will change their habits in a hurry. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mac Dearman Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:17 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about beingstickerconscious or not?? Hold your Horses there Sir Patrick! There was one comment that used that in their post - I don't think that we as an industry have evolved to that level of degradation in dealing with the laws of the land air. There will always be renegades in every avenue of life, but we are not in that classification :-) and given a little time we will be someone to be reckoned with as the industry leader in wireless across this country. I must admit that I have learned a few things in the past week - or had some things clarified that were quite an awakening for me and a few others. I (for one) will not deploy even one more piece of hardware that is not FCC certified. I have in the last year deployed many unlicensed access points back haul radios though. I made a terrible mistake in doing that, but I was under a false impression of what was legal. The path we will follow from this point on is what is really going to count. I do happen to know of two manufacturers who have gear at FCC certification labs today undergoing their certifications for some specific pieces of their gear. This is something that should have taken place a couple years ago, but now is better than never. I realize that is not going to affect the gear I have in the air today from these guys as it can not be certified - ever - even if they happen to get the exact gear certified that I have on towers today. I think this last visit WISPA members (Thanks men) made to the FCC clarified several things that needed clarification: 1. FILLOUT THOSE FORMS! The FCC is not out to get us. They need the data that only we can supply them - like who we are, where we are (zip code), how many subs...Etc This is their way of helping us. With out this data they can only guess how many we are, how many we serve and the actual coverage area total. Guys - y'all please fill out the form 477 - - it's a good thing for us all. 2. WE ARE NOT LEGAL EVEN IF WE ARE NOT OVER POWERED OR OUT OF BAND. I am not going into any details here because that is stated just as simple as it can get. Sincerely, Mac Dearman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????
I was honestly not sure what he was saying. For all I know he was saying these are available in legal form at this price. I have heard they are out there and that there are two which have been certified for legal use in the Us but nobody has ever said what brand they are, who sells them, what they cost, etc.. I was not insinuating anything. Just curious what he was saying here. Scriv J. Vogel wrote: John, Maybe I missed something, but how do you get from Travis' statement that any user could do it, to questioning Travis as to whether that was a claim to have done it himself? John Vogel John Scrivner wrote: Travis, Are saying you are using 5.4 GHz radios in the US? Scriv Travis Johnson wrote: snip Yes, DoD may have a little more push with the FCC, but, who's to say someone can't buy 5.4ghz right now today and put it up? Any user with internet access could order and install a 5.4ghz AP tomorrow for less than $300... Travis -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simplyabout beingstickerconscious or not??
And, just list the American UL stuff, skip the non American and licensed gear. George Rogato wrote: Aw come on now. Thats was just a not well thought out hip shot slur. Fact was you just said Tranzeo you admired. They were innovative. Been there for 5 years now. I used them when you were selling FHSS as the ultimate 2.4 solution. Here is you chance, list your companies innovations by chronological order starting the day you took the evangelist job up until now, and I will demonstrate to you, how the big manufacturers hold us up. Again, not a rub against Alvarion, I truly respect your company, but, I want to make a point here. George Patrick Leary wrote: George, ones person's innovation is something that might another person nothing but migraines. If you think you getting cutting edge innovation and state of the art technology from the uncertified manufacturers I don't know what to tell you except your technology exposure may be a bit narrow. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 5:55 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simplyabout beingstickerconscious or not?? Ho ho ho Patrick, So, to add to the list of reasons why a lot of wisps use uncertified gear. One reason that was exposed, was that manufacturers were not keeping up with technology fast enough and the kit systems offered newer technology and allowed a wisp to be more innovative What say you Mr. Leary? Has Alvarion been keeping up fast enough? George (oh yeah, I also think there was a lot of crap slung as cpe's) Patrick Leary wrote: Mac, That's good news that some previously illegal gear is now undergoing FCC certification. It is good for everyone, regardless of what finally led them to earn it. As WISPs, you should use that cert as a minimum litmus test, because it will tell you much more than just the cert itself; it tells you that the vendor actual is concerned about YOUR business, not just the money that can made off you. You should say to any illegal vendor that you might use, You know, I like your features and price, but before I undertake any more study about the possibility of buying your gear you need have your system FCC certified. Do that and those guys will change their habits in a hurry. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mac Dearman Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:17 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about beingstickerconscious or not?? Hold your Horses there Sir Patrick! There was one comment that used that in their post - I don't think that we as an industry have evolved to that level of degradation in dealing with the laws of the land air. There will always be renegades in every avenue of life, but we are not in that classification :-) and given a little time we will be someone to be reckoned with as the industry leader in wireless across this country. I must admit that I have learned a few things in the past week - or had some things clarified that were quite an awakening for me and a few others. I (for one) will not deploy even one more piece of hardware that is not FCC certified. I have in the last year deployed many unlicensed access points back haul radios though. I made a terrible mistake in doing that, but I was under a false impression of what was legal. The path we will follow from this point on is what is really going to count. I do happen to know of two manufacturers who have gear at FCC certification labs today undergoing their certifications for some specific pieces of their gear. This is something that should have taken place a couple years ago, but now is better than never. I realize that is not going to affect the gear I have in the air today from these guys as it can not be certified - ever - even if they happen to get the exact gear certified that I have on towers today. I think this last visit WISPA members (Thanks men) made to the FCC clarified several things that needed clarification: 1. FILLOUT THOSE FORMS! The FCC is not out to get us. They need the data that only we can supply them - like who we are, where we are (zip code), how many subs...Etc This is their way of helping us. With out this data they can only guess how many we are, how many we serve and the actual coverage area total. Guys - y'all please fill out the form 477 - - it's a good thing for us all. 2. WE ARE NOT LEGAL EVEN IF WE ARE NOT OVER POWERED OR OUT OF BAND. I am not going into any details here because that is stated just as simple as it can
RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simplyabout beingstickerconscious or not??
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 20:52:04 -0800, Patrick Leary wrote George, ones person's innovation is something that might another person nothing but migraines. If you think you getting cutting edge innovation and state of the art technology from the uncertified manufacturers I don't know what to tell you except your technology exposure may be a bit narrow. But Patrick, it's NOT uncertified manufacturers as if we're talking about some big greedy corporation. Unless you refer to me. Or the guy down the street. Or even the woman over in the next town. Or THOUSANDS of people all over the world who find that what they want to do is either not supported by something off the shelf, or never even conceived by some engineer, or didn't make it past the marketing and budgeting departments. Download an open and free bit of Linux. Buy a surplus CPU board. Buy whatever radio module you want or need. Put it in a box and VIOLA, you already have more features most WISP Network operators wnat, than Alvarion can figure out how to put in a box. Does it have cutting edge RF qualities? Nope. Does it have Cisco quality routing? Nope. Does it have -100 to +200 degree temperature range? Nope. But, none of those are required. I don't have to the BEST rf front end and features to be successful. I just have to have to have the ones I find necessary, and the ability to get those things changed I need changed. And these people are endlessly exploring and refining mesh networks, customer controls, routing, etc, etc... and THEY NEVER STOP. So, if I want the lowest priced VL stuff to route and do NAT at the customer's end, will Alvarion build it in for me? No? Gee, that's already in the FREE stuff. Huh. Next time you whine that there's uncertified manufacturers, you're talking about the workshops, desks, garages, offices, or even spare bedrooms of THOUSANDS and thousands of people spread all around the country. And we shoulid NOT be stifled by a rigid and corporate-centric regulatory straightjacket. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply aboutbeingsticker conscious or not??
Don't make too many assumptions about what your price will be by looking at list prices, for example, our CPE available in the AlvarionCOMNET program for $285 (does require a 25 per quarter commitment), lists with a MSRP of $1,095. Not being too familiar with Tranzeo, you'll have to ask them or their users about what can be done with a qty of 5. Matt Larson is a WISPA leader and one of the most respectable WISPs. He loves Tranzeo and can point you in the right direction. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of rabbtux rabbtux Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 8:52 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply aboutbeingsticker conscious or not?? Great. I looked into it. From the Tranzeo website, I find the TR5a series for $367, and the lowest cost 5Ghz unit at $287 (16db antenna) which isn't good for the 4-5 mile range. I doubt they will cut prices to $170 for an order of 5. Is there somewhere else I can look, Tranzeo looks like nice gear. On 2/18/07, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That'd be Tranzeo. Not sure the volume that gets you that price, but I know some who pay that for their 802.11a stuff. It has some nice features, to include even 5 MHz channels. Tranzeo is doing lots of things right and they've earned the loyalty of some WISPs I respect hugely, and that's good enough for me. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of rabbtux rabbtux Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 2:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about beingsticker conscious or not?? -snip- That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 -- that's cheap. -snip- Patrick, your input on low cost 5.8 CPEs is appreciated. Please let me know where I can purchase 5.8G CPEs at $170? We need to purchase 1-5 units at a time. Is there an Alvarion product to meet this need?? On 2/18/07, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry? Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious? Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 -- that's cheap. My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable 5.8G cpe suggestions? RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious. If you are sticker conscious I use the Tranzeo TR5a-24/20 with MT/CM9 setups and they work great. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless rabbtux rabbtux wrote: Not to stir the fcc sticker debate, but what gear is out there today that is compatable with a MT/SR5 access point? Looking for lower cost CPEs for 1-5 mile deployments. Thanks -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(42). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simplyabout beingstickerconscious or not??
Be careful George, you are taunting Patrick with that one. :-) The last time someone did that, he posted a several page book, listing about 50 reasons how the VL series innovated beyond its competitors. Alvarion may not offer all the same flexibility as the other oem products, but it sure is leading the industry with innovation of many unique features. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simplyabout beingstickerconscious or not?? Ho ho ho Patrick, So, to add to the list of reasons why a lot of wisps use uncertified gear. One reason that was exposed, was that manufacturers were not keeping up with technology fast enough and the kit systems offered newer technology and allowed a wisp to be more innovative What say you Mr. Leary? Has Alvarion been keeping up fast enough? George (oh yeah, I also think there was a lot of crap slung as cpe's) Patrick Leary wrote: Mac, That's good news that some previously illegal gear is now undergoing FCC certification. It is good for everyone, regardless of what finally led them to earn it. As WISPs, you should use that cert as a minimum litmus test, because it will tell you much more than just the cert itself; it tells you that the vendor actual is concerned about YOUR business, not just the money that can made off you. You should say to any illegal vendor that you might use, You know, I like your features and price, but before I undertake any more study about the possibility of buying your gear you need have your system FCC certified. Do that and those guys will change their habits in a hurry. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mac Dearman Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:17 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about beingstickerconscious or not?? Hold your Horses there Sir Patrick! There was one comment that used that in their post - I don't think that we as an industry have evolved to that level of degradation in dealing with the laws of the land air. There will always be renegades in every avenue of life, but we are not in that classification :-) and given a little time we will be someone to be reckoned with as the industry leader in wireless across this country. I must admit that I have learned a few things in the past week - or had some things clarified that were quite an awakening for me and a few others. I (for one) will not deploy even one more piece of hardware that is not FCC certified. I have in the last year deployed many unlicensed access points back haul radios though. I made a terrible mistake in doing that, but I was under a false impression of what was legal. The path we will follow from this point on is what is really going to count. I do happen to know of two manufacturers who have gear at FCC certification labs today undergoing their certifications for some specific pieces of their gear. This is something that should have taken place a couple years ago, but now is better than never. I realize that is not going to affect the gear I have in the air today from these guys as it can not be certified - ever - even if they happen to get the exact gear certified that I have on towers today. I think this last visit WISPA members (Thanks men) made to the FCC clarified several things that needed clarification: 1. FILLOUT THOSE FORMS! The FCC is not out to get us. They need the data that only we can supply them - like who we are, where we are (zip code), how many subs...Etc This is their way of helping us. With out this data they can only guess how many we are, how many we serve and the actual coverage area total. Guys - y'all please fill out the form 477 - - it's a good thing for us all. 2. WE ARE NOT LEGAL EVEN IF WE ARE NOT OVER POWERED OR OUT OF BAND. I am not going into any details here because that is stated just as simple as it can get. Sincerely, Mac Dearman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:33 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being stickerconscious or not?? Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry? Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious? Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be legal! That's not an argument
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????
Anything that uses an Atheros chipset can do 5.4Ghz, if the software driver has not been modified to restrict it. Any of these radios packaged for international use, may have an option to select 5.4Ghz. Or for that matter download and flash an Inernational Firmware. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ? I was honestly not sure what he was saying. For all I know he was saying these are available in legal form at this price. I have heard they are out there and that there are two which have been certified for legal use in the Us but nobody has ever said what brand they are, who sells them, what they cost, etc.. I was not insinuating anything. Just curious what he was saying here. Scriv J. Vogel wrote: John, Maybe I missed something, but how do you get from Travis' statement that any user could do it, to questioning Travis as to whether that was a claim to have done it himself? John Vogel John Scrivner wrote: Travis, Are saying you are using 5.4 GHz radios in the US? Scriv Travis Johnson wrote: snip Yes, DoD may have a little more push with the FCC, but, who's to say someone can't buy 5.4ghz right now today and put it up? Any user with internet access could order and install a 5.4ghz AP tomorrow for less than $300... Travis -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules arenow simplyabout beingstickerconscious or not??
George, this is a child's game. The market is the arbiter of who and what is successful and our macro success is there for all to read via any of the market reports about this space since there were reports. And as a public company, our financials are there for all the study. Now, that said, has Alvarion been on the forefront of product innovation for the small WISP? No, not by a long shot. Is that supposed to be some secret? Since 2000'ish our development in UL has been aimed at the premium WISPs and other top UL operators. We are the product many a funded or professional WISP starts with. We are the gear some grow in to. My work of late has been to try to bring this premium product within the realm of most WISPs, thus the AlvarionCOMNET program. When I began my WISP advocacy, there was no small WISP, large WISP, ILEC WISP, utility WISP or muni WISP. There was no Trango (Sunstream had not even launched), there was no Canopy (the technology had been created in the early 90's but the exec engineer that created it did not yet have the internal power to market it), there was no Tranzeo, SmartBridges, etc. All WISPs were small WISPs and we were dominant, maybe only because we paid attention to the market before any professional company and built for it. We did see the stratification coming though (our vision has always been excellent, better than our execution some times), and as was more our technological, corporate and customer character, we aimed for the premium and hit that and then some. Motorola aimed for the center; and with the simplicity and the power of their brand, they hit that and then some. Tranzeo and SmartBridges aimed at smaller WISPs and those with less access to funds. They hit that. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 8:57 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules arenow simplyabout beingstickerconscious or not?? Aw come on now. Thats was just a not well thought out hip shot slur. Fact was you just said Tranzeo you admired. They were innovative. Been there for 5 years now. I used them when you were selling FHSS as the ultimate 2.4 solution. Here is you chance, list your companies innovations by chronological order starting the day you took the evangelist job up until now, and I will demonstrate to you, how the big manufacturers hold us up. Again, not a rub against Alvarion, I truly respect your company, but, I want to make a point here. George Patrick Leary wrote: George, ones person's innovation is something that might another person nothing but migraines. If you think you getting cutting edge innovation and state of the art technology from the uncertified manufacturers I don't know what to tell you except your technology exposure may be a bit narrow. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 5:55 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simplyabout beingstickerconscious or not?? Ho ho ho Patrick, So, to add to the list of reasons why a lot of wisps use uncertified gear. One reason that was exposed, was that manufacturers were not keeping up with technology fast enough and the kit systems offered newer technology and allowed a wisp to be more innovative What say you Mr. Leary? Has Alvarion been keeping up fast enough? George (oh yeah, I also think there was a lot of crap slung as cpe's) Patrick Leary wrote: Mac, That's good news that some previously illegal gear is now undergoing FCC certification. It is good for everyone, regardless of what finally led them to earn it. As WISPs, you should use that cert as a minimum litmus test, because it will tell you much more than just the cert itself; it tells you that the vendor actual is concerned about YOUR business, not just the money that can made off you. You should say to any illegal vendor that you might use, You know, I like your features and price, but before I undertake any more study about the possibility of buying your gear you need have your system FCC certified. Do that and those guys will change their habits in a hurry. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mac Dearman Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:17 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about beingstickerconscious or not?? Hold your Horses there Sir Patrick! There was one comment
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being sticker conscious or not??
You know Patrick, I for the most part have respect for you and your opinion, but when it comes to this issue you are so blinded by it you don't even stop to think about your reply. I stated it that way because I have absolutely no idea if rabbtux rabbtux is in the US or not. It is a gmail account so it could be anywhere world wide. They stated that they were looking for something that would work with an MT/SR5 combination so I replied that if the sticker is not important (which it probably isn't since they are use an MT/SR5 as the AP) they could use a RB112 and CM9 with good result. I added on the fact that Tranzeo makes eqiupment that will meet their specifications and is FCC approved so that they (and others) know that there is certified equipment that meet their criteria. I will echo Mark's (?) comment from somewhere in the fact that in the certified realm there isn't much that comes close to the flexibility and power of either StarOS or MT. The problem with the Premium CPE is that it attaches to a Premium PROPRIETARY AP. The power of StarOS and MT is in the fact that the user is not stuck buying everything from a single manufacturer. If PCEngines EOLs a model of wrap board there is always gateworks or MT. If StarOS adds a new advanced routing protocol MT users can switch with only the change of an AP and gain the full advantage and in some cases they doesn't even have to change AP hardware. If Smartbridges equipment goes to crap you can change to Senao, if Senao EOLs a CPE you can switch to Tranzeo. In the Premium world if Trango decides to EOL a line of equipment or manufacturing quality tanks you are stuck with: 1. buy refurb/used equipment 2. hang dual APs to handle new growth 3. swap equipment around in your network so that vendor/product A is on the east side of your coverage area... 4. Replace CPEs with new line of product There is a LOT more to the certified debate than the fact that Motorola, Trango and Alvarion have finally gotten CPE price down to $200. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Patrick Leary wrote: Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry? Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious? Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 -- that's cheap. My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable 5.8G cpe suggestions? RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious. If you are sticker conscious I use the Tranzeo TR5a-24/20 with MT/CM9 setups and they work great. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless rabbtux rabbtux wrote: Not to stir the fcc sticker debate, but what gear is out there today that is compatable with a MT/SR5 access point? Looking for lower cost CPEs for 1-5 mile deployments. Thanks -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????
wispa wrote: Once we're a regulated industry, and at this point the FCC and Congress are SERIOUSLY attempting to take control the WISP and ISP business, we exist, or we do not exist, at the stroke of a pen, totally at the WHIM of someone who neither knows, nor cares, whether we live or die, nor the impact on the lives of the people we service. This IS a regulated industry. I think people have failed to notice that. - Peter -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????
How true, how true. It is just a question of how much regulation Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Peter R. wrote: wispa wrote: Once we're a regulated industry, and at this point the FCC and Congress are SERIOUSLY attempting to take control the WISP and ISP business, we exist, or we do not exist, at the stroke of a pen, totally at the WHIM of someone who neither knows, nor cares, whether we live or die, nor the impact on the lives of the people we service. This IS a regulated industry. I think people have failed to notice that. - Peter -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
NON U.S. and Canada WISPs? was RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ...
Sam, you are right. During this whole thread I have been reflexive about assuming U.S. and I did assume you discussing it from a U.S. standpoint. I was wrong to assume that and I apologize. To all non-U.S. (well, this really does include Canada since the domains share so much in common from a UL standpoint), this must indeed be mind numbing. What would be VERY interesting would be for the non-North American WISPs to tell us their opinions about compliance relative to their regions. I have assumptions there too, but MUCH less knowledge and experience so the better part of valor is shut up and listen. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:40 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about beingsticker conscious or not?? You know Patrick, I for the most part have respect for you and your opinion, but when it comes to this issue you are so blinded by it you don't even stop to think about your reply. I stated it that way because I have absolutely no idea if rabbtux rabbtux is in the US or not. It is a gmail account so it could be anywhere world wide. They stated that they were looking for something that would work with an MT/SR5 combination so I replied that if the sticker is not important (which it probably isn't since they are use an MT/SR5 as the AP) they could use a RB112 and CM9 with good result. I added on the fact that Tranzeo makes eqiupment that will meet their specifications and is FCC approved so that they (and others) know that there is certified equipment that meet their criteria. I will echo Mark's (?) comment from somewhere in the fact that in the certified realm there isn't much that comes close to the flexibility and power of either StarOS or MT. The problem with the Premium CPE is that it attaches to a Premium PROPRIETARY AP. The power of StarOS and MT is in the fact that the user is not stuck buying everything from a single manufacturer. If PCEngines EOLs a model of wrap board there is always gateworks or MT. If StarOS adds a new advanced routing protocol MT users can switch with only the change of an AP and gain the full advantage and in some cases they doesn't even have to change AP hardware. If Smartbridges equipment goes to crap you can change to Senao, if Senao EOLs a CPE you can switch to Tranzeo. In the Premium world if Trango decides to EOL a line of equipment or manufacturing quality tanks you are stuck with: 1. buy refurb/used equipment 2. hang dual APs to handle new growth 3. swap equipment around in your network so that vendor/product A is on the east side of your coverage area... 4. Replace CPEs with new line of product There is a LOT more to the certified debate than the fact that Motorola, Trango and Alvarion have finally gotten CPE price down to $200. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Patrick Leary wrote: Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry? Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious? Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 -- that's cheap. My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable 5.8G cpe suggestions? RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious. If you are sticker conscious I use the Tranzeo TR5a-24/20 with MT/CM9 setups and they work great. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless rabbtux rabbtux wrote: Not to stir the fcc sticker debate, but what gear is out there today that is compatable with a MT/SR5 access point? Looking for lower cost CPEs for 1-5 mile deployments. Thanks -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????
I think everyone is missing the real problem with 5.4ghz. How big of a piece of crap is our military radar that a $49 minipci wireless card and a homemade pringles antenna can render it useless??? ;^) Matt Larsen vistabeam.com J. Vogel wrote: Fair enough. I might have been a little on the touchy side myself there. In the context of what I had been reading, particularly a comment about how the use of 5.4 was going to require someone to install another phone line just to handle complaints from the DoD, coupled with the current excitement around the list that some WISPs have *gasp* been using un-certified gear, it appeared to me that your question might have been motivated by suspicion in that regard. Thanks for the clarification. John Vogel -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????
:) But their guns are huge. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ? I think everyone is missing the real problem with 5.4ghz. How big of a piece of crap is our military radar that a $49 minipci wireless card and a homemade pringles antenna can render it useless??? ;^) Matt Larsen vistabeam.com J. Vogel wrote: Fair enough. I might have been a little on the touchy side myself there. In the context of what I had been reading, particularly a comment about how the use of 5.4 was going to require someone to install another phone line just to handle complaints from the DoD, coupled with the current excitement around the list that some WISPs have *gasp* been using un-certified gear, it appeared to me that your question might have been motivated by suspicion in that regard. Thanks for the clarification. John Vogel -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(43). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply aboutbeingsticker conscious or not??
I believe the new Tranzeo SL5-16 is around the $170 price range in quantity 20.They are available directly from Tranzeo or from distributors in the US like ElectroComm, Doubleradius and Streakwave. I have bought from all three places and they have always done good by me. I have about 10 of the little SL5 CPEs deployed at ranges from 1/4 to 8 miles and they are very solid performers. The somewhat larger and more expensive 5a24 radios will work out to 18 miles. 802.11a is good stuff. I have a post on my blog at http://www.thelar.com/ that describes my experience with 802.11a so far. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com Patrick Leary wrote: Don't make too many assumptions about what your price will be by looking at list prices, for example, our CPE available in the AlvarionCOMNET program for $285 (does require a 25 per quarter commitment), lists with a MSRP of $1,095. Not being too familiar with Tranzeo, you'll have to ask them or their users about what can be done with a qty of 5. Matt Larson is a WISPA leader and one of the most respectable WISPs. He loves Tranzeo and can point you in the right direction. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of rabbtux rabbtux Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 8:52 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply aboutbeingsticker conscious or not?? Great. I looked into it. From the Tranzeo website, I find the TR5a series for $367, and the lowest cost 5Ghz unit at $287 (16db antenna) which isn't good for the 4-5 mile range. I doubt they will cut prices to $170 for an order of 5. Is there somewhere else I can look, Tranzeo looks like nice gear. On 2/18/07, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That'd be Tranzeo. Not sure the volume that gets you that price, but I know some who pay that for their 802.11a stuff. It has some nice features, to include even 5 MHz channels. Tranzeo is doing lots of things right and they've earned the loyalty of some WISPs I respect hugely, and that's good enough for me. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
