Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????

2007-02-22 Thread John J. Thomas
Cisco AP 1242 Radios have 5.4 GHz as an option in the current flash.

John


-Original Message-
From: John Scrivner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 04:08 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?

Travis,
Are saying you are using 5.4 GHz radios in the US?
Scriv


Travis Johnson wrote:

 Hi,

 You make good points... however, the better question is how much money 
 did Z-Tel take out of the business during this time? I would bet the 
 owners and investors made BIG money during this time... so, so what if 
 they are out of business now? If they made millions during that time, 
 then it worked out for them.

 Same for DSL. I know there are companies that are going or gone now, 
 but that made millions in profits during the past 5 years.

 Yes, DoD may have a little more push with the FCC, but, who's to say 
 someone can't buy 5.4ghz right now today and put it up? Any user with 
 internet access could order and install a 5.4ghz AP tomorrow for 
 less than $300...

 Travis


 Peter R. wrote:

 Many of you probably don't follow the FCC much, so let me tell you 
 about the stroke of a pen:

 UNE-P which was the magic bullet for CLECs. No facilities needed. 
 Rock bottom pricing on voice lines. Market and sell. Z-Tel and a few 
 others had over 500k lines. Unfortunately, they didn't listen when 
 they were told it would be a stop gap to facilities. In other words, 
 sell UNE-P regionally and convert to facilities. No one listened. 
 Bang! UNE-P ruled no more. One year to move to facilities. Z-Tel just 
 filed BK, following many others that area shadow of their UNE-P selves.

 Another example: DSL. One day it is tariffed. Bang! No tariff. Go 
 nego with the ILEC.

 So please heed the warning about 5.4. It won't take much prodding 
 from DoD to wipe oout your business model.

 This is NOT a threat, folks.  This is how telecom regulations works 
 in the US.

 So skip the forms - 445 and 477. Keep using the unlincesed gear. Next 
 year you can all be pirates. That's okay, because you can celebrate 
 *Gasparilla* Pirate Fest in Tampa after that.

 Plus you say all this stuff on a PUBLIC, archived email list. DUH!

 Regards,

 Peter @ RAD-INFO, Inc.


 Patrick Leary wrote:

 Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry?
 Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to
 us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been
 reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious?
 Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I
 don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be
 legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range
 from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 --
 that's cheap.
 My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a
 special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls.

 Patrick Leary
 AVP WISP Markets
 Alvarion, Inc.
 o: 650.314.2628
 c: 760.580.0080
 Vonage: 650.641.1243
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????

2007-02-22 Thread George Rogato



John J. Thomas wrote:

Cisco AP 1242 Radios have 5.4 GHz as an option in the current flash.

John




When we were at the fcc talking with Julius Knapp, he said there was a 
couple manufacturers who have already certified 5.4 systems in the US.


Not sure why we never thought about Cisco.


George Rogato

Welcome to WISPA

www.wispa.org

http://signup.wispa.org/
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????

2007-02-20 Thread Matt Larsen - Lists

Brian,

Umy original point still stands.   The parameters of the 
environment have changed and its time for the military to adapt to 
forces outside of its control instead of trying to maintain an untenable 
status quo.


I am a little concerned that the military/industrial complex has so much 
control over existing spectrum.  The fact that this stuff has been in 
use since the 60s is especially disturbing.  What good is a highly 
beneficial technology when it is locked away from the rest of the 
world?  I'm not talking nuclear bombs here - its communication. 

I wonder what other national secrets are out there now that could be 
doing the world a lot of good but instead they are collecting dust from 
disuse.  Gotta love the propensity of government and industry to 
manufacture artificial scarcity to protect their own interests.


Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


Brian Webster wrote:

Matt,
Most Radar systems are built with extremely sensitive receivers and
extremely high gain antennas that can detect things like a double echo which
means it can receive the signal that was generated by itself and then
bounced back to the antenna not once but multiple times. In many cases is
also designed to sit there in a passive mode to detect other signals and not
give out it's own position which gives an enemy an easy target to attack.
Some of it is used to direct weapons to it's proper targets, some if it as
navigation aids for military aircraft the just like civilian air travel. Do
you want to let WISP's be responsible for disabling some of that technology?
Please do not get this list started thinking that WISP's and or the
manufacturers are much smarter in radio engineering than a government agency
who has spent billions of dollars in research and construction of radio
systems that are partially responsible for the incredibly cheap radios we
have today. Most of what we use on the air today has been in use or
manufactured in one form or another by the government since the 60's. You
haven't heard of it because for most of those years it was considered part
of a national secret and any of us who did know about it are not allowed
(including the manufacturers) to say a thing about it. RF Engineering,
complex radio systems and digital modulation techniques have been around for
much longer that you realize, where do you think many of the geniuses who
built this stuff got their experience in the first place?



Thank You,
Brian Webster

-Original Message-
From: Matt Larsen - Lists [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 2:32 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?


I think everyone is missing the real problem with 5.4ghz.

How big of a piece of crap is our military radar that a $49 minipci
wireless card and a homemade pringles antenna can render it useless???

;^)

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


J. Vogel wrote:
  

Fair enough. I might have been a little on the touchy side myself there.
In the context of
what I had been reading, particularly a comment about how the use of 5.4
was going to
require someone to install another phone line just to handle complaints
from the DoD,
coupled with the current excitement around the list that some WISPs have
*gasp* been
using un-certified gear, it appeared to me that your question might have
been motivated
by suspicion in that regard.

Thanks for the clarification.

John Vogel







--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


  


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????

2007-02-19 Thread Brian Webster
Matt,
Most Radar systems are built with extremely sensitive receivers and
extremely high gain antennas that can detect things like a double echo which
means it can receive the signal that was generated by itself and then
bounced back to the antenna not once but multiple times. In many cases is
also designed to sit there in a passive mode to detect other signals and not
give out it's own position which gives an enemy an easy target to attack.
Some of it is used to direct weapons to it's proper targets, some if it as
navigation aids for military aircraft the just like civilian air travel. Do
you want to let WISP's be responsible for disabling some of that technology?
Please do not get this list started thinking that WISP's and or the
manufacturers are much smarter in radio engineering than a government agency
who has spent billions of dollars in research and construction of radio
systems that are partially responsible for the incredibly cheap radios we
have today. Most of what we use on the air today has been in use or
manufactured in one form or another by the government since the 60's. You
haven't heard of it because for most of those years it was considered part
of a national secret and any of us who did know about it are not allowed
(including the manufacturers) to say a thing about it. RF Engineering,
complex radio systems and digital modulation techniques have been around for
much longer that you realize, where do you think many of the geniuses who
built this stuff got their experience in the first place?



Thank You,
Brian Webster

-Original Message-
From: Matt Larsen - Lists [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 2:32 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?


I think everyone is missing the real problem with 5.4ghz.

How big of a piece of crap is our military radar that a $49 minipci
wireless card and a homemade pringles antenna can render it useless???

;^)

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


J. Vogel wrote:
 Fair enough. I might have been a little on the touchy side myself there.
 In the context of
 what I had been reading, particularly a comment about how the use of 5.4
 was going to
 require someone to install another phone line just to handle complaints
 from the DoD,
 coupled with the current excitement around the list that some WISPs have
 *gasp* been
 using un-certified gear, it appeared to me that your question might have
 been motivated
 by suspicion in that regard.

 Thanks for the clarification.

 John Vogel





--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: NON U.S. and Canada WISPs? was RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ...

2007-02-19 Thread Carl A jeptha
If we want WISPA to be the IEEE of the world, then all this FCC (US) 
stuff must be taken off the general list.


You have a Good Day now,


Carl A Jeptha
http://www.airnet.ca
Office Phone: 905 349-2084
Office Hours: 9:00am - 5:00pm
skype cajeptha



Patrick Leary wrote:

Sam, you are right. During this whole thread I have been reflexive about
assuming U.S. and I did assume you discussing it from a U.S. standpoint.
I was wrong to assume that and I apologize.

To all non-U.S. (well, this really does include Canada since the domains
share so much in common from a UL standpoint), this must indeed be mind
numbing. 


What would be VERY interesting would be for the non-North American WISPs
to tell us their opinions about compliance relative to their regions. I
have assumptions there too, but MUCH less knowledge and experience so
the better part of valor is shut up and listen.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Sam Tetherow
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:40 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about
beingsticker conscious or not??

You know Patrick, I for the most part have respect for you and your 
opinion, but when it comes to this issue you are so blinded by it you 
don't even stop to think about your reply.


I stated it that way because I have absolutely no idea if rabbtux 
rabbtux is in the US or not. It is a gmail account so it could be 
anywhere world wide.


They stated that they were looking for something that would work with an

MT/SR5 combination so I replied that if the sticker is not important 
(which it probably isn't since they are use an MT/SR5 as the AP) they 
could use a RB112 and CM9 with good result.


I added on the fact that Tranzeo makes eqiupment that will meet their 
specifications and is FCC approved so that they (and others) know that 
there is certified equipment that meet their criteria.


I will echo Mark's (?) comment from somewhere in the fact that in the 
certified realm there isn't much that comes close to the flexibility and


power of either StarOS or MT. The problem with the Premium CPE is that

it attaches to a Premium PROPRIETARY AP. The power of StarOS and MT is 
in the fact that the user is not stuck buying everything from a single 
manufacturer. If PCEngines EOLs a model of wrap board there is always 
gateworks or MT. If StarOS adds a new advanced routing protocol MT users


can switch with only the change of an AP and gain the full advantage and

in some cases they doesn't even have to change AP hardware. If 
Smartbridges equipment goes to crap you can change to Senao, if Senao 
EOLs a CPE you can switch to Tranzeo.


In the Premium world if Trango decides to EOL a line of equipment or 
manufacturing quality tanks you are stuck with:

1. buy refurb/used equipment
2. hang dual APs to handle new growth
3. swap equipment around in your network so that vendor/product A is on 
the east side of your coverage area...

4. Replace CPEs with new line of product

There is a LOT more to the certified debate than the fact that Motorola,

Trango and Alvarion have finally gotten CPE price down to $200.

Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless

Patrick Leary wrote:
  

Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry?
Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated


to
  

us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been
reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker


conscious?
  

Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I
don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be
legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range
from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 --
that's cheap. 


My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a
special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


On
  

Behalf Of Sam Tetherow
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable 5.8G cpe suggestions?

RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious.
If you are sticker conscious I use the Tranzeo TR5a-24/20 with MT/CM9 
setups and they work great.


Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless

rabbtux rabbtux wrote:
  


Not to stir the fcc sticker debate, but what gear is out there
  

today
  

that is compatable with a MT/SR5 access point?   Looking for lower
cost CPEs for 1-5 mile deployments.
Thanks

  
  



  

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman

using equipment from overseas companies Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????

2007-02-19 Thread Mario Pommier

Hi,
   The following question seems germaine to this thread.
   Who would I talk to at the FCC about the following:
-- if I want to use equipment from an overseas-based manufacturer, 
where would I go to or who could I talk to at the FCC to know 
certification procedures, equipment allowed or not in licensed or 
unlicensed spectrum?

-- is there a list of FCC approved manufacturers?

   Thanks.

Mario





--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simplyabout beingstickerconscious or not??

2007-02-19 Thread Steve Stroh


Mark:

But, the FACT of the matter is by slapping together that collection  
of pieces to make a radio that you will deploy for commercial,  
revenue service as a telecommunications service provider is ILLEGAL.


You make a compelling case that the pieces parts systems you're  
describing are far more innovative than what's currently on the  
market from the larger vendors... but ultimately irrelevant.


That you don't THINK putting together pieces parts radios for use  
in the US without going through the formality of FCC certification as  
a system SHOULD be illegal is irrelevant.



Thanks,

Steve



On Feb 18, 2007, at Feb 18  09:07 PM, wispa wrote:


On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 20:52:04 -0800, Patrick Leary wrote

George, ones person's innovation is something that might another
person nothing but migraines. If you think you getting cutting edge
innovation and state of the art technology from the uncertified
manufacturers I don't know what to tell you except your technology
exposure may be a bit narrow.


But Patrick, it's NOT uncertified manufacturers as if we're  
talking about

some big greedy corporation.

Unless you refer to me.  Or the guy down the street.  Or even the  
woman over
in the next town.  Or THOUSANDS of people all over the world who  
find that
what they want to do is either not supported by something off the  
shelf, or
never even conceived by some engineer, or didn't make it past the  
marketing

and budgeting departments.

Download an open and free bit of Linux.  Buy a surplus CPU board.  Buy
whatever radio module you want or need.  Put it in a box and VIOLA,  
you
already have more features most WISP Network operators wnat, than  
Alvarion

can figure out how to put in a box.

Does it have cutting edge RF qualities?  Nope.   Does it have  
Cisco quality
routing?  Nope.  Does it have -100 to +200 degree temperature  
range?  Nope.


But, none of those are required.  I don't have to the BEST rf front  
end and
features to be successful.  I just have to have to have the ones I  
find
necessary, and the ability to get those things changed I need  
changed.  And
these people are endlessly exploring and refining mesh networks,  
customer

controls, routing, etc, etc... and THEY NEVER STOP.

So, if I want the lowest priced VL stuff to route and do NAT at the
customer's end, will Alvarion  build it in for me?  No?  Gee,  
that's already

in the FREE stuff.  Huh.

Next time you whine that there's uncertified manufacturers,  
you're talking
about the workshops, desks, garages, offices, or even spare  
bedrooms of

THOUSANDS and thousands of people spread all around the country.

And we shoulid NOT be stifled by a rigid and corporate-centric  
regulatory

straightjacket.



Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]





Mark Koskenmaki   Neofast, Inc
Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains
541-969-8200

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




---

Steve Stroh
425-939-0076 | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Writing about BWIA again! - http://www.bwianews.com




--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simplyabout beingstickerconscious or not??

2007-02-19 Thread wispa
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 08:58:02 -0800, Steve Stroh wrote
 Mark:
 
 But, the FACT of the matter is by slapping together that collection  
 of pieces to make a radio that you will deploy for commercial,  
 revenue service as a telecommunications service provider is ILLEGAL.

But Steve, many of these people are NOT deploying a commercial service 
provider.   Some of them are just hobbyists.  Some of them are just 
networking their back yard.  Some of them are building community free 
networks.   Some of them are doing it to make money.  Some of them are just 
doing it because they can and find it fun and intersting.  

Patrick called ALL of these illegal manufacturers.  

 
 You make a compelling case that the pieces parts systems you're  
 describing are far more innovative than what's currently on the  
 market from the larger vendors... but ultimately irrelevant.

How's it irrelevant?   I make no claims that because it's a good idea or 
workable, that  the law can't be followed.  I'm arguing that it's a change we 
should try to get done.  

 
 That you don't THINK putting together pieces parts radios for use  
 in the US without going through the formality of FCC certification 
 as  a system SHOULD be illegal is irrelevant.

It's relevant, as to why we should lobby for change, Steve.  



Mark Koskenmaki   Neofast, Inc
Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains
541-969-8200

-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about beingstickerconscious or not??

2007-02-19 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

Anyone want to take a bet?

I'll bet Patrick has never had a speeding ticket!  (yeah right)

roflol

Patrick deserves respect here guy.  Yeah, he's a bit overzealous sometimes. 
But we all have our hot buttons eh?  Think of the cahonas it takes to be a 
manufacturer and tell potential customers they are all wet.  Big brass ones 
man.


AND, he's right!  Using non certified gear is illegal.  Does the FCC care 
any more than a cop does when you are 5 over the speed limit?  No, not as 
far as I've seen.  It doesn't change the law though.


What we need to do is change the law!  Lets ask for a certified components 
rule like they have for pc's.


laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about 
beingstickerconscious or not??




Patrick,

Please just pick up the phone and contact the FCC yourself. Apply for  the 
job, get a shiny badge and go out on the range to take down all  of the 
Illegal wisps you see out there.


Every other email from you on this list (even when the thread starts  with 
someone asking for advice) ends with an email from Patrick  talking about 
OMG WTFBBQ!one!!!eleven111!! that is illegal!


Honestly, you are starting to sound like my nutty neighbor that  measures 
the distance from my bumper to the stop sign every time I park.


If you are going to be all ranty about this stuff, you may want to  remove 
your employer's domain name from your sig line. At this point  I would be 
hesitant to use a vendor that shouted OMG YOU ARE ILLEGAL  all the time.



ryan

On Feb 18, 2007, at 11:36 AM, rabbtux rabbtux wrote:


I try to keep a low profile around here, you listen twice and speak
once.  Wispa membership has been a good experience for me.  However,
Patrick has once again, been the HIGH  MiGHTY, and jumped all over my
one phrase.  I did not mean to imply anything illegal about my in
tensions, other than I might re-use/re-deploy existing equipment.

What I do know now, is that Alvaron is off my shopping list for a long
time now, due to their over zealous employee.  I also know that more
of my posts will go to the members-only list to avoid this nonsense.

On 2/18/07, Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hold your Horses there Sir Patrick! There was one comment that  used 
that in
their post - I don't think that we as an industry have evolved  to 
that
level of degradation in dealing with the laws of the land  air.  There 
will

always be renegades in every avenue of life, but we are not in that
classification :-) and given a little time we will be someone to  be 
reckoned

with as the industry leader in wireless across this country.

 I must admit that I have learned a few things in the past week -  or 
had
some things clarified that were quite an awakening for me and a  few 
others.
I (for one) will not deploy even one more piece of hardware that  is not 
FCC
certified. I have in the last year deployed many unlicensed access 
points 
back haul radios though. I made a terrible mistake in doing that,  but I 
was
under a false impression of what was legal. The path we will  follow 
from

this point on is what is really going to count.

 I do happen to know of two manufacturers who have gear at FCC 
certification
labs today undergoing their certifications for some specific  pieces of 
their
gear. This is something that should have taken place a couple  years 
ago, but
now is better than never. I realize that is not going to affect  the 
gear I
have in the air today from these guys as it can not be certified - 
 ever -
even if they happen to get the exact gear certified that I have on 
towers

today.

I think this last visit WISPA members (Thanks men) made to the FCC 
clarified

several things that needed clarification:

1. FILLOUT THOSE FORMS!
   The FCC is not out to get us. They need the data that only we  can 
supply

them - like who we are, where we are (zip code), how many subs...Etc

This is their way of helping us. With out this data they can only  guess 
how
many we are, how many we serve and the actual coverage area  total. 
Guys -

y'all please fill out the form 477 - - it's a good thing for us all.

2. WE ARE NOT LEGAL EVEN IF WE ARE NOT OVER POWERED OR OUT OF BAND.
I am not going into any details here because that is stated  just as
simple as it can get.

Sincerely,
Mac Dearman




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:33 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about

RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being stickerconscious or not??

2007-02-18 Thread Mac Dearman
Hold your Horses there Sir Patrick! There was one comment that used that in
their post - I don't think that we as an industry have evolved to that
level of degradation in dealing with the laws of the land  air. There will
always be renegades in every avenue of life, but we are not in that
classification :-) and given a little time we will be someone to be reckoned
with as the industry leader in wireless across this country.

 I must admit that I have learned a few things in the past week - or had
some things clarified that were quite an awakening for me and a few others.
I (for one) will not deploy even one more piece of hardware that is not FCC
certified. I have in the last year deployed many unlicensed access points 
back haul radios though. I made a terrible mistake in doing that, but I was
under a false impression of what was legal. The path we will follow from
this point on is what is really going to count.

 I do happen to know of two manufacturers who have gear at FCC certification
labs today undergoing their certifications for some specific pieces of their
gear. This is something that should have taken place a couple years ago, but
now is better than never. I realize that is not going to affect the gear I
have in the air today from these guys as it can not be certified - ever -
even if they happen to get the exact gear certified that I have on towers
today.

I think this last visit WISPA members (Thanks men) made to the FCC clarified
several things that needed clarification:

1. FILLOUT THOSE FORMS!
   The FCC is not out to get us. They need the data that only we can supply
them - like who we are, where we are (zip code), how many subs...Etc

This is their way of helping us. With out this data they can only guess how
many we are, how many we serve and the actual coverage area total. Guys -
y'all please fill out the form 477 - - it's a good thing for us all.

2. WE ARE NOT LEGAL EVEN IF WE ARE NOT OVER POWERED OR OUT OF BAND.
I am not going into any details here because that is stated just as
simple as it can get.
   
Sincerely,
Mac Dearman




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:33 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being
stickerconscious or not??

Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry?
Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to
us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been
reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious?
Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I
don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be
legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range
from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 --
that's cheap. 

My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a
special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Sam Tetherow
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable 5.8G cpe suggestions?

RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious.
If you are sticker conscious I use the Tranzeo TR5a-24/20 with MT/CM9 
setups and they work great.

Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless

rabbtux rabbtux wrote:
 Not to stir the fcc sticker debate, but what gear is out there today
 that is compatable with a MT/SR5 access point?   Looking for lower
 cost CPEs for 1-5 mile deployments.
 Thanks

-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses(190).










This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by

PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses(42).








 
 


This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses.









Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being stickerconscious or not??

2007-02-18 Thread rabbtux rabbtux

I try to keep a low profile around here, you listen twice and speak
once.  Wispa membership has been a good experience for me.  However,
Patrick has once again, been the HIGH  MiGHTY, and jumped all over my
one phrase.  I did not mean to imply anything illegal about my in
tensions, other than I might re-use/re-deploy existing equipment.

What I do know now, is that Alvaron is off my shopping list for a long
time now, due to their over zealous employee.  I also know that more
of my posts will go to the members-only list to avoid this nonsense.

On 2/18/07, Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hold your Horses there Sir Patrick! There was one comment that used that in
their post - I don't think that we as an industry have evolved to that
level of degradation in dealing with the laws of the land  air. There will
always be renegades in every avenue of life, but we are not in that
classification :-) and given a little time we will be someone to be reckoned
with as the industry leader in wireless across this country.

 I must admit that I have learned a few things in the past week - or had
some things clarified that were quite an awakening for me and a few others.
I (for one) will not deploy even one more piece of hardware that is not FCC
certified. I have in the last year deployed many unlicensed access points 
back haul radios though. I made a terrible mistake in doing that, but I was
under a false impression of what was legal. The path we will follow from
this point on is what is really going to count.

 I do happen to know of two manufacturers who have gear at FCC certification
labs today undergoing their certifications for some specific pieces of their
gear. This is something that should have taken place a couple years ago, but
now is better than never. I realize that is not going to affect the gear I
have in the air today from these guys as it can not be certified - ever -
even if they happen to get the exact gear certified that I have on towers
today.

I think this last visit WISPA members (Thanks men) made to the FCC clarified
several things that needed clarification:

1. FILLOUT THOSE FORMS!
   The FCC is not out to get us. They need the data that only we can supply
them - like who we are, where we are (zip code), how many subs...Etc

This is their way of helping us. With out this data they can only guess how
many we are, how many we serve and the actual coverage area total. Guys -
y'all please fill out the form 477 - - it's a good thing for us all.

2. WE ARE NOT LEGAL EVEN IF WE ARE NOT OVER POWERED OR OUT OF BAND.
I am not going into any details here because that is stated just as
simple as it can get.

Sincerely,
Mac Dearman




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:33 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being
stickerconscious or not??

Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry?
Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to
us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been
reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious?
Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I
don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be
legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range
from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 --
that's cheap.

My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a
special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Sam Tetherow
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable 5.8G cpe suggestions?

RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious.
If you are sticker conscious I use the Tranzeo TR5a-24/20 with MT/CM9
setups and they work great.

Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless

rabbtux rabbtux wrote:
 Not to stir the fcc sticker debate, but what gear is out there today
 that is compatable with a MT/SR5 access point?   Looking for lower
 cost CPEs for 1-5 mile deployments.
 Thanks

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses(190).










Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being stickerconscious or not??

2007-02-18 Thread George Rogato



rabbtux rabbtux wrote:

I try to keep a low profile around here, you listen twice and speak
once.  Wispa membership has been a good experience for me.  However,
Patrick has once again, been the HIGH  MiGHTY, and jumped all over my
one phrase.  I did not mean to imply anything illegal about my in
tensions, other than I might re-use/re-deploy existing equipment.

What I do know now, is that Alvaron is off my shopping list for a long
time now, due to their over zealous employee.  I also know that more
of my posts will go to the members-only list to avoid this nonsense.



Ditto for me, the guy just can't control himself.

Gosh, it's like he's manic that just goes on and on and on and on

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being stickerconscious or not??

2007-02-18 Thread George Rogato
Oh, let me add one thing though, the members only list is free of 
vendors pitching their wares or bragging about their past or trying to 
influence through propaganda..


Of course it's only open to paying WISPA members. But it is fairly private.

George



Welcome to WISPA

www.wispa.org

http://signup.wispa.org/
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being stickerconscious or not??

2007-02-18 Thread D. Ryan Spott

Patrick,

Please just pick up the phone and contact the FCC yourself. Apply for  
the job, get a shiny badge and go out on the range to take down all  
of the Illegal wisps you see out there.


Every other email from you on this list (even when the thread starts  
with someone asking for advice) ends with an email from Patrick  
talking about OMG WTFBBQ!one!!!eleven111!! that is illegal!


Honestly, you are starting to sound like my nutty neighbor that  
measures the distance from my bumper to the stop sign every time I park.


If you are going to be all ranty about this stuff, you may want to  
remove your employer's domain name from your sig line. At this point  
I would be hesitant to use a vendor that shouted OMG YOU ARE ILLEGAL  
all the time.



ryan

On Feb 18, 2007, at 11:36 AM, rabbtux rabbtux wrote:


I try to keep a low profile around here, you listen twice and speak
once.  Wispa membership has been a good experience for me.  However,
Patrick has once again, been the HIGH  MiGHTY, and jumped all over my
one phrase.  I did not mean to imply anything illegal about my in
tensions, other than I might re-use/re-deploy existing equipment.

What I do know now, is that Alvaron is off my shopping list for a long
time now, due to their over zealous employee.  I also know that more
of my posts will go to the members-only list to avoid this nonsense.

On 2/18/07, Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hold your Horses there Sir Patrick! There was one comment that  
used that in
their post - I don't think that we as an industry have evolved  
to that
level of degradation in dealing with the laws of the land  air.  
There will

always be renegades in every avenue of life, but we are not in that
classification :-) and given a little time we will be someone to  
be reckoned

with as the industry leader in wireless across this country.

 I must admit that I have learned a few things in the past week -  
or had
some things clarified that were quite an awakening for me and a  
few others.
I (for one) will not deploy even one more piece of hardware that  
is not FCC
certified. I have in the last year deployed many unlicensed access  
points 
back haul radios though. I made a terrible mistake in doing that,  
but I was
under a false impression of what was legal. The path we will  
follow from

this point on is what is really going to count.

 I do happen to know of two manufacturers who have gear at FCC  
certification
labs today undergoing their certifications for some specific  
pieces of their
gear. This is something that should have taken place a couple  
years ago, but
now is better than never. I realize that is not going to affect  
the gear I
have in the air today from these guys as it can not be certified -  
ever -
even if they happen to get the exact gear certified that I have on  
towers

today.

I think this last visit WISPA members (Thanks men) made to the FCC  
clarified

several things that needed clarification:

1. FILLOUT THOSE FORMS!
   The FCC is not out to get us. They need the data that only we  
can supply

them - like who we are, where we are (zip code), how many subs...Etc

This is their way of helping us. With out this data they can only  
guess how
many we are, how many we serve and the actual coverage area  
total. Guys -

y'all please fill out the form 477 - - it's a good thing for us all.

2. WE ARE NOT LEGAL EVEN IF WE ARE NOT OVER POWERED OR OUT OF BAND.
I am not going into any details here because that is stated  
just as

simple as it can get.

Sincerely,
Mac Dearman




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:33 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being
stickerconscious or not??

Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry?
Following the very clear laws, which were once again just  
reiterated to

us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been
reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker  
conscious?

Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I
don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford  
to be

legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range
from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub- 
$300 --

that's cheap.

My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a
special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Sam Tetherow
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable 5.8G cpe suggestions?

RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious.
If you are sticker conscious 

Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being stickerconscious or not??

2007-02-18 Thread Steve Stroh


Your competitors thank you for ignoring some of the best gear on the  
market.


I'm not an Alvarion proponent, or apologist. There's lots of other  
good gear on the market that's the equal of Alvarion.


But in no other segment of the telecommunications industry are BASIC,  
FUNDAMENTAL, CRITICAL decisions that go straight to the fundamental  
success of a WISP's business as their choice of gear are decided by  
one person's emotions, as they are in the WISP industry.


Sheesh...

That Patrick IS speaking fundamental truths that you don't want to  
hear because they're inconvenient or simply irritating... and  
you're deciding that you're not going to buy Alvarion gear because of  
that??? Like I said, your competitors thank you for making bad  
business choices so that they won't have to compete with you much  
longer.



Thanks,

Steve


On Feb 18, 2007, at Feb 18  11:36 AM, rabbtux rabbtux wrote:


I try to keep a low profile around here, you listen twice and speak
once.  Wispa membership has been a good experience for me.  However,
Patrick has once again, been the HIGH  MiGHTY, and jumped all over my
one phrase.  I did not mean to imply anything illegal about my in
tensions, other than I might re-use/re-deploy existing equipment.

What I do know now, is that Alvaron is off my shopping list for a long
time now, due to their over zealous employee.  I also know that more
of my posts will go to the members-only list to avoid this nonsense.



---

Steve Stroh
425-939-0076 | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Writing about BWIA again! - http://www.bwianews.com




--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being stickerconscious or not??

2007-02-18 Thread George Rogato
Steve, problem is not in Patricks message, for sure they are real and we 
should be thankful that he wants to help.
Issue as I see it is, he dominates the list more than  some care to read 
as a vendor.


If he toned it down some, he would be doing himself justice.

Also,

Although Alvarion is a good product, so ain't Trango, Moto, and the 
others. I doubt the competitors are happy he is not using Alvarion. I 
bet they would not be very happy to hear he was using Moto and not being 
co-operative.


George

Steve Stroh wrote:


Your competitors thank you for ignoring some of the best gear on the  
market.


I'm not an Alvarion proponent, or apologist. There's lots of other  good 
gear on the market that's the equal of Alvarion.


But in no other segment of the telecommunications industry are BASIC,  
FUNDAMENTAL, CRITICAL decisions that go straight to the fundamental  
success of a WISP's business as their choice of gear are decided by  one 
person's emotions, as they are in the WISP industry.


Sheesh...

That Patrick IS speaking fundamental truths that you don't want to  hear 
because they're inconvenient or simply irritating... and  you're 
deciding that you're not going to buy Alvarion gear because of  that??? 
Like I said, your competitors thank you for making bad  business choices 
so that they won't have to compete with you much  longer.



Thanks,

Steve


On Feb 18, 2007, at Feb 18  11:36 AM, rabbtux rabbtux wrote:


I try to keep a low profile around here, you listen twice and speak
once.  Wispa membership has been a good experience for me.  However,
Patrick has once again, been the HIGH  MiGHTY, and jumped all over my
one phrase.  I did not mean to imply anything illegal about my in
tensions, other than I might re-use/re-deploy existing equipment.

What I do know now, is that Alvaron is off my shopping list for a long
time now, due to their over zealous employee.  I also know that more
of my posts will go to the members-only list to avoid this nonsense.



---

Steve Stroh
425-939-0076 | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Writing about BWIA again! - http://www.bwianews.com






--
George Rogato

Welcome to WISPA

www.wispa.org

http://signup.wispa.org/
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being sticker conscious or not??

2007-02-18 Thread rabbtux rabbtux

-snip-
That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range
from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 --
that's cheap.
-snip-

Patrick, your input on low cost 5.8 CPEs is appreciated.  Please let
me know where I can purchase 5.8G CPEs at $170?  We need to purchase
1-5 units at a time.   Is there an Alvarion product to meet this
need??

On 2/18/07, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry?
Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to
us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been
reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious?
Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I
don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be
legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range
from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 --
that's cheap.

My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a
special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Sam Tetherow
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable 5.8G cpe suggestions?

RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious.
If you are sticker conscious I use the Tranzeo TR5a-24/20 with MT/CM9
setups and they work great.

Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless

rabbtux rabbtux wrote:
 Not to stir the fcc sticker debate, but what gear is out there today
 that is compatable with a MT/SR5 access point?   Looking for lower
 cost CPEs for 1-5 mile deployments.
 Thanks

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses(190).










This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by

PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses(42).












This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses.









 This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp 
Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals  computer viruses(84). 









This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals  computer 
viruses.




--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????

2007-02-18 Thread Peter R.
Many of you probably don't follow the FCC much, so let me tell you about 
the stroke of a pen:


UNE-P which was the magic bullet for CLECs. No facilities needed. Rock 
bottom pricing on voice lines. Market and sell. Z-Tel and a few others 
had over 500k lines. Unfortunately, they didn't listen when they were 
told it would be a stop gap to facilities. In other words, sell UNE-P 
regionally and convert to facilities. No one listened. Bang! UNE-P ruled 
no more. One year to move to facilities. Z-Tel just filed BK, following 
many others that area shadow of their UNE-P selves.


Another example: DSL. One day it is tariffed. Bang! No tariff. Go nego 
with the ILEC.


So please heed the warning about 5.4. It won't take much prodding from 
DoD to wipe oout your business model.


This is NOT a threat, folks.  This is how telecom regulations works in 
the US.


So skip the forms - 445 and 477. Keep using the unlincesed gear. Next 
year you can all be pirates. That's okay, because you can celebrate 
*Gasparilla* Pirate Fest in Tampa after that.


Plus you say all this stuff on a PUBLIC, archived email list. DUH!

Regards,

Peter @ RAD-INFO, Inc.


Patrick Leary wrote:


Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry?
Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to
us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been
reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious?
Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I
don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be
legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range
from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 --
that's cheap. 


My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a
special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????

2007-02-18 Thread Travis Johnson

Hi,

You make good points... however, the better question is how much money 
did Z-Tel take out of the business during this time? I would bet the 
owners and investors made BIG money during this time... so, so what if 
they are out of business now? If they made millions during that time, 
then it worked out for them.


Same for DSL. I know there are companies that are going or gone now, but 
that made millions in profits during the past 5 years.


Yes, DoD may have a little more push with the FCC, but, who's to say 
someone can't buy 5.4ghz right now today and put it up? Any user with 
internet access could order and install a 5.4ghz AP tomorrow for 
less than $300...


Travis


Peter R. wrote:
Many of you probably don't follow the FCC much, so let me tell you 
about the stroke of a pen:


UNE-P which was the magic bullet for CLECs. No facilities needed. Rock 
bottom pricing on voice lines. Market and sell. Z-Tel and a few others 
had over 500k lines. Unfortunately, they didn't listen when they were 
told it would be a stop gap to facilities. In other words, sell UNE-P 
regionally and convert to facilities. No one listened. Bang! UNE-P 
ruled no more. One year to move to facilities. Z-Tel just filed BK, 
following many others that area shadow of their UNE-P selves.


Another example: DSL. One day it is tariffed. Bang! No tariff. Go nego 
with the ILEC.


So please heed the warning about 5.4. It won't take much prodding from 
DoD to wipe oout your business model.


This is NOT a threat, folks.  This is how telecom regulations works in 
the US.


So skip the forms - 445 and 477. Keep using the unlincesed gear. Next 
year you can all be pirates. That's okay, because you can celebrate 
*Gasparilla* Pirate Fest in Tampa after that.


Plus you say all this stuff on a PUBLIC, archived email list. DUH!

Regards,

Peter @ RAD-INFO, Inc.


Patrick Leary wrote:


Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry?
Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to
us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been
reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious?
Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I
don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be
legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range
from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 --
that's cheap.
My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a
special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????

2007-02-18 Thread John Scrivner

Travis,
Are saying you are using 5.4 GHz radios in the US?
Scriv


Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

You make good points... however, the better question is how much money 
did Z-Tel take out of the business during this time? I would bet the 
owners and investors made BIG money during this time... so, so what if 
they are out of business now? If they made millions during that time, 
then it worked out for them.


Same for DSL. I know there are companies that are going or gone now, 
but that made millions in profits during the past 5 years.


Yes, DoD may have a little more push with the FCC, but, who's to say 
someone can't buy 5.4ghz right now today and put it up? Any user with 
internet access could order and install a 5.4ghz AP tomorrow for 
less than $300...


Travis


Peter R. wrote:

Many of you probably don't follow the FCC much, so let me tell you 
about the stroke of a pen:


UNE-P which was the magic bullet for CLECs. No facilities needed. 
Rock bottom pricing on voice lines. Market and sell. Z-Tel and a few 
others had over 500k lines. Unfortunately, they didn't listen when 
they were told it would be a stop gap to facilities. In other words, 
sell UNE-P regionally and convert to facilities. No one listened. 
Bang! UNE-P ruled no more. One year to move to facilities. Z-Tel just 
filed BK, following many others that area shadow of their UNE-P selves.


Another example: DSL. One day it is tariffed. Bang! No tariff. Go 
nego with the ILEC.


So please heed the warning about 5.4. It won't take much prodding 
from DoD to wipe oout your business model.


This is NOT a threat, folks.  This is how telecom regulations works 
in the US.


So skip the forms - 445 and 477. Keep using the unlincesed gear. Next 
year you can all be pirates. That's okay, because you can celebrate 
*Gasparilla* Pirate Fest in Tampa after that.


Plus you say all this stuff on a PUBLIC, archived email list. DUH!

Regards,

Peter @ RAD-INFO, Inc.


Patrick Leary wrote:


Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry?
Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to
us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been
reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious?
Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I
don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be
legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range
from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 --
that's cheap.
My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a
special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????

2007-02-18 Thread Peter R.

Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

You make good points... however, the better question is how much money 
did Z-Tel take out of the business during this time? I would bet the 
owners and investors made BIG money during this time... so, so what if 
they are out of business now? If they made millions during that time, 
then it worked out for them.


--- How is this the better question? 
-- How much can I make before the door closes?
- Did some CLEC investors make a killing? Sure. Employees and 
shareholders not so much.

 Consumers got burned. CLEC Industry takes another black eye.



Same for DSL. I know there are companies that are going or gone now, 
but that made millions in profits during the past 5 years.


-- Not in profits. No DLEC has ever been profitable. Playing the stock 
would make you some money probably.




Yes, DoD may have a little more push with the FCC, but, who's to say 
someone can't buy 5.4ghz right now today and put it up? Any user with 
internet access could order and install a 5.4ghz AP tomorrow for 
less than $300...


Travis


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????

2007-02-18 Thread J. Vogel
John,

Maybe I missed something, but how do you get from Travis' statement that
any user could do it, to questioning Travis as to whether that was a
claim to
have done it himself?

John Vogel

John Scrivner wrote:

 Travis,
 Are saying you are using 5.4 GHz radios in the US?
 Scriv


 Travis Johnson wrote:

 snip

 Yes, DoD may have a little more push with the FCC, but, who's to say
 someone can't buy 5.4ghz right now today and put it up? Any user with
 internet access could order and install a 5.4ghz AP tomorrow for
 less than $300...

 Travis



-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????

2007-02-18 Thread Brad Belton
No kidding.  

So...in one breath you're saying WISPA isn't playing the FCC Cop, and in
another you make a completely unfounded comment like this?  shaking head

I must have missed where Travis said he was deploying 5.4GHz APs and
thumbing his nose at the FCC.

Geesh, what an outlandish and overreaching comment from John Scrivner.  Talk
about FUD.

Best,


Brad



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of J. Vogel
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 6:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?

John,

Maybe I missed something, but how do you get from Travis' statement that
any user could do it, to questioning Travis as to whether that was a
claim to
have done it himself?

John Vogel

John Scrivner wrote:

 Travis,
 Are saying you are using 5.4 GHz radios in the US?
 Scriv


 Travis Johnson wrote:

 snip

 Yes, DoD may have a little more push with the FCC, but, who's to say
 someone can't buy 5.4ghz right now today and put it up? Any user with
 internet access could order and install a 5.4ghz AP tomorrow for
 less than $300...

 Travis



-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about beingstickerconscious or not??

2007-02-18 Thread Patrick Leary
Mac,

That's good news that some previously illegal gear is now undergoing FCC
certification. It is good for everyone, regardless of what finally led
them to earn it. As WISPs, you should use that cert as a minimum litmus
test, because it will tell you much more than just the cert itself; it
tells you that the vendor actual is concerned about YOUR business, not
just the money that can made off you. You should say to any illegal
vendor that you might use, You know, I like your features and price,
but before I undertake any more study about the possibility of buying
your gear you need have your system FCC certified. Do that and those
guys will change their habits in a hurry.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mac Dearman
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:17 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about
beingstickerconscious or not??

Hold your Horses there Sir Patrick! There was one comment that used that
in
their post - I don't think that we as an industry have evolved to that
level of degradation in dealing with the laws of the land  air. There
will
always be renegades in every avenue of life, but we are not in that
classification :-) and given a little time we will be someone to be
reckoned
with as the industry leader in wireless across this country.

 I must admit that I have learned a few things in the past week - or had
some things clarified that were quite an awakening for me and a few
others.
I (for one) will not deploy even one more piece of hardware that is not
FCC
certified. I have in the last year deployed many unlicensed access
points 
back haul radios though. I made a terrible mistake in doing that, but I
was
under a false impression of what was legal. The path we will follow
from
this point on is what is really going to count.

 I do happen to know of two manufacturers who have gear at FCC
certification
labs today undergoing their certifications for some specific pieces of
their
gear. This is something that should have taken place a couple years ago,
but
now is better than never. I realize that is not going to affect the gear
I
have in the air today from these guys as it can not be certified - ever
-
even if they happen to get the exact gear certified that I have on
towers
today.

I think this last visit WISPA members (Thanks men) made to the FCC
clarified
several things that needed clarification:

1. FILLOUT THOSE FORMS!
   The FCC is not out to get us. They need the data that only we can
supply
them - like who we are, where we are (zip code), how many subs...Etc

This is their way of helping us. With out this data they can only guess
how
many we are, how many we serve and the actual coverage area total.
Guys -
y'all please fill out the form 477 - - it's a good thing for us all.

2. WE ARE NOT LEGAL EVEN IF WE ARE NOT OVER POWERED OR OUT OF BAND.
I am not going into any details here because that is stated just as
simple as it can get.
   
Sincerely,
Mac Dearman




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:33 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being
stickerconscious or not??

Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry?
Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to
us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been
reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious?
Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I
don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be
legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range
from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 --
that's cheap. 

My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a
special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Sam Tetherow
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable 5.8G cpe suggestions?

RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious.
If you are sticker conscious I use the Tranzeo TR5a-24/20 with MT/CM9 
setups and they work great.

Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless

rabbtux rabbtux wrote:
 Not to stir the fcc sticker debate, but what gear is out there today
 that is compatable with a MT/SR5 access point?   Looking for lower
 cost CPEs for 1-5 mile deployments.
 Thanks

-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about beingstickerconscious or not??

2007-02-18 Thread George Rogato

Ho ho ho Patrick,

So, to add to the list of reasons why a lot of wisps use uncertified gear.

One reason that was exposed, was that manufacturers were not keeping up 
with technology fast enough and the kit systems offered newer technology 
and allowed a wisp to be more innovative


What say you Mr. Leary?
Has Alvarion been keeping up fast enough?


George

(oh yeah, I also think there was a lot of crap slung as cpe's)


Patrick Leary wrote:

Mac,

That's good news that some previously illegal gear is now undergoing FCC
certification. It is good for everyone, regardless of what finally led
them to earn it. As WISPs, you should use that cert as a minimum litmus
test, because it will tell you much more than just the cert itself; it
tells you that the vendor actual is concerned about YOUR business, not
just the money that can made off you. You should say to any illegal
vendor that you might use, You know, I like your features and price,
but before I undertake any more study about the possibility of buying
your gear you need have your system FCC certified. Do that and those
guys will change their habits in a hurry.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mac Dearman
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:17 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about
beingstickerconscious or not??

Hold your Horses there Sir Patrick! There was one comment that used that
in
their post - I don't think that we as an industry have evolved to that
level of degradation in dealing with the laws of the land  air. There
will
always be renegades in every avenue of life, but we are not in that
classification :-) and given a little time we will be someone to be
reckoned
with as the industry leader in wireless across this country.

 I must admit that I have learned a few things in the past week - or had
some things clarified that were quite an awakening for me and a few
others.
I (for one) will not deploy even one more piece of hardware that is not
FCC
certified. I have in the last year deployed many unlicensed access
points 
back haul radios though. I made a terrible mistake in doing that, but I
was
under a false impression of what was legal. The path we will follow
from
this point on is what is really going to count.

 I do happen to know of two manufacturers who have gear at FCC
certification
labs today undergoing their certifications for some specific pieces of
their
gear. This is something that should have taken place a couple years ago,
but
now is better than never. I realize that is not going to affect the gear
I
have in the air today from these guys as it can not be certified - ever
-
even if they happen to get the exact gear certified that I have on
towers
today.

I think this last visit WISPA members (Thanks men) made to the FCC
clarified
several things that needed clarification:

1. FILLOUT THOSE FORMS!
   The FCC is not out to get us. They need the data that only we can
supply
them - like who we are, where we are (zip code), how many subs...Etc

This is their way of helping us. With out this data they can only guess
how
many we are, how many we serve and the actual coverage area total.
Guys -
y'all please fill out the form 477 - - it's a good thing for us all.

2. WE ARE NOT LEGAL EVEN IF WE ARE NOT OVER POWERED OR OUT OF BAND.
I am not going into any details here because that is stated just as
simple as it can get.
   
Sincerely,

Mac Dearman




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:33 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being
stickerconscious or not??

Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry?
Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to
us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been
reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious?
Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I
don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be
legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range
from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 --
that's cheap. 


My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a
special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Sam Tetherow
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable 5.8G cpe suggestions?

RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious.
If you

Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????

2007-02-18 Thread Travis Johnson
No. I am saying anyone with an internet account, credit card and 
shipping address could purchase 5.4ghz equipment TODAY and deploy it 
TODAY. Granted its not FCC certified and not technically legal right 
now... but, it could be done.


Travis


John Scrivner wrote:

Travis,
Are saying you are using 5.4 GHz radios in the US?
Scriv


Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

You make good points... however, the better question is how much 
money did Z-Tel take out of the business during this time? I would 
bet the owners and investors made BIG money during this time... so, 
so what if they are out of business now? If they made millions during 
that time, then it worked out for them.


Same for DSL. I know there are companies that are going or gone now, 
but that made millions in profits during the past 5 years.


Yes, DoD may have a little more push with the FCC, but, who's to say 
someone can't buy 5.4ghz right now today and put it up? Any user with 
internet access could order and install a 5.4ghz AP tomorrow for 
less than $300...


Travis


Peter R. wrote:

Many of you probably don't follow the FCC much, so let me tell you 
about the stroke of a pen:


UNE-P which was the magic bullet for CLECs. No facilities needed. 
Rock bottom pricing on voice lines. Market and sell. Z-Tel and a few 
others had over 500k lines. Unfortunately, they didn't listen when 
they were told it would be a stop gap to facilities. In other words, 
sell UNE-P regionally and convert to facilities. No one listened. 
Bang! UNE-P ruled no more. One year to move to facilities. Z-Tel 
just filed BK, following many others that area shadow of their UNE-P 
selves.


Another example: DSL. One day it is tariffed. Bang! No tariff. Go 
nego with the ILEC.


So please heed the warning about 5.4. It won't take much prodding 
from DoD to wipe oout your business model.


This is NOT a threat, folks.  This is how telecom regulations works 
in the US.


So skip the forms - 445 and 477. Keep using the unlincesed gear. 
Next year you can all be pirates. That's okay, because you can 
celebrate *Gasparilla* Pirate Fest in Tampa after that.


Plus you say all this stuff on a PUBLIC, archived email list. DUH!

Regards,

Peter @ RAD-INFO, Inc.


Patrick Leary wrote:


Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry?
Following the very clear laws, which were once again just 
reiterated to

us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been
reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker 
conscious?

Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I
don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be
legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range
from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 --
that's cheap.
My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a
special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about beingstickerconscious or not??

2007-02-18 Thread Patrick Leary
Strange as it may seem Rabbtux, you'll not find me saying Oh no, I've
gone too far because this guy won't buy my gear now. I will remain
consistent and provocative. For sure no other vendor has the chutzpah to
do it (or maybe cares about WISPs enough to do it) and someone has to
lead. Playing nice on this subject gets the industry no where and there
is nothing inconsistent or hypocritical about my statements.

This is not about arrogance except to the extent that many of you really
don't know how serious this is getting and what's at risk. You are
necessarily tending to your businesses, and that's largely as it should
be. I am more plugged in than the vast majority of you (that's not a
boast, just simple statement of fact) and that gives me some
responsibility or I can just ignore it and let the chips fall where they
are headed. But, I do have the ability to help be a catalyst; I've done
it many times in ways that can be documented. You can call that
arrogance, but it's also the truth and credibility and influence is
wasted if not used to the greater benefit. It about the future of the
industry and that's worth more than a few ruffled feathers and what some
of you think must be the loss of a few radios to Alvarion.

 
Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of rabbtux rabbtux
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:37 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about
beingstickerconscious or not??

I try to keep a low profile around here, you listen twice and speak
once.  Wispa membership has been a good experience for me.  However,
Patrick has once again, been the HIGH  MiGHTY, and jumped all over my
one phrase.  I did not mean to imply anything illegal about my in
tensions, other than I might re-use/re-deploy existing equipment.

What I do know now, is that Alvaron is off my shopping list for a long
time now, due to their over zealous employee.  I also know that more
of my posts will go to the members-only list to avoid this nonsense.

On 2/18/07, Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hold your Horses there Sir Patrick! There was one comment that used
that in
 their post - I don't think that we as an industry have evolved to
that
 level of degradation in dealing with the laws of the land  air. There
will
 always be renegades in every avenue of life, but we are not in that
 classification :-) and given a little time we will be someone to be
reckoned
 with as the industry leader in wireless across this country.

  I must admit that I have learned a few things in the past week - or
had
 some things clarified that were quite an awakening for me and a few
others.
 I (for one) will not deploy even one more piece of hardware that is
not FCC
 certified. I have in the last year deployed many unlicensed access
points 
 back haul radios though. I made a terrible mistake in doing that, but
I was
 under a false impression of what was legal. The path we will follow
from
 this point on is what is really going to count.

  I do happen to know of two manufacturers who have gear at FCC
certification
 labs today undergoing their certifications for some specific pieces of
their
 gear. This is something that should have taken place a couple years
ago, but
 now is better than never. I realize that is not going to affect the
gear I
 have in the air today from these guys as it can not be certified -
ever -
 even if they happen to get the exact gear certified that I have on
towers
 today.

 I think this last visit WISPA members (Thanks men) made to the FCC
clarified
 several things that needed clarification:

 1. FILLOUT THOSE FORMS!
The FCC is not out to get us. They need the data that only we can
supply
 them - like who we are, where we are (zip code), how many subs...Etc

 This is their way of helping us. With out this data they can only
guess how
 many we are, how many we serve and the actual coverage area total.
Guys -
 y'all please fill out the form 477 - - it's a good thing for us all.

 2. WE ARE NOT LEGAL EVEN IF WE ARE NOT OVER POWERED OR OUT OF BAND.
 I am not going into any details here because that is stated just
as
 simple as it can get.

 Sincerely,
 Mac Dearman




 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:33 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being
 stickerconscious or not??

 Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry?
 Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated
to
 us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been
 reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker
conscious?
 Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I
 don't give a ? Let's not have any

RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about beingsticker conscious or not??

2007-02-18 Thread Patrick Leary
That'd be Tranzeo. Not sure the volume that gets you that price, but I
know some who pay that for their 802.11a stuff. It has some nice
features, to include even 5 MHz channels. Tranzeo is doing lots of
things right and they've earned the loyalty of some WISPs I respect
hugely, and that's good enough for me.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of rabbtux rabbtux
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 2:30 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about
beingsticker conscious or not??

-snip-
That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range
from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 --
that's cheap.
-snip-

Patrick, your input on low cost 5.8 CPEs is appreciated.  Please let
me know where I can purchase 5.8G CPEs at $170?  We need to purchase
1-5 units at a time.   Is there an Alvarion product to meet this
need??

On 2/18/07, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry?
 Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated
to
 us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been
 reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker
conscious?
 Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I
 don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be
 legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range
 from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 --
 that's cheap.

 My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a
 special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls.

 Patrick Leary
 AVP WISP Markets
 Alvarion, Inc.
 o: 650.314.2628
 c: 760.580.0080
 Vonage: 650.641.1243
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Sam Tetherow
 Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable 5.8G cpe suggestions?

 RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious.
 If you are sticker conscious I use the Tranzeo TR5a-24/20 with MT/CM9
 setups and they work great.

 Sam Tetherow
 Sandhills Wireless

 rabbtux rabbtux wrote:
  Not to stir the fcc sticker debate, but what gear is out there
today
  that is compatable with a MT/SR5 access point?   Looking for lower
  cost CPEs for 1-5 mile deployments.
  Thanks

 --
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





 
 This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
 PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
 computer viruses(190).


 







 

 This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by

 PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
 computer viruses(42).



 









 
 This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
 PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
 computer viruses.


 








 This footnote confirms that this email message has been
scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code,
vandals  computer viruses(84).












 This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
 PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses.






 --
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure

RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simplyabout beingstickerconscious or not??

2007-02-18 Thread Patrick Leary
George, ones person's innovation is something that might another
person nothing but migraines. If you think you getting cutting edge
innovation and state of the art technology from the uncertified
manufacturers I don't know what to tell you except your technology
exposure may be a bit narrow.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of George Rogato
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 5:55 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simplyabout
beingstickerconscious or not??

Ho ho ho Patrick,

So, to add to the list of reasons why a lot of wisps use uncertified
gear.

One reason that was exposed, was that manufacturers were not keeping up 
with technology fast enough and the kit systems offered newer technology

and allowed a wisp to be more innovative

What say you Mr. Leary?
Has Alvarion been keeping up fast enough?


George

(oh yeah, I also think there was a lot of crap slung as cpe's)


Patrick Leary wrote:
 Mac,
 
 That's good news that some previously illegal gear is now undergoing
FCC
 certification. It is good for everyone, regardless of what finally led
 them to earn it. As WISPs, you should use that cert as a minimum
litmus
 test, because it will tell you much more than just the cert itself; it
 tells you that the vendor actual is concerned about YOUR business, not
 just the money that can made off you. You should say to any illegal
 vendor that you might use, You know, I like your features and price,
 but before I undertake any more study about the possibility of buying
 your gear you need have your system FCC certified. Do that and those
 guys will change their habits in a hurry.
 
 Patrick Leary
 AVP WISP Markets
 Alvarion, Inc.
 o: 650.314.2628
 c: 760.580.0080
 Vonage: 650.641.1243
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Mac Dearman
 Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:17 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about
 beingstickerconscious or not??
 
 Hold your Horses there Sir Patrick! There was one comment that used
that
 in
 their post - I don't think that we as an industry have evolved to
that
 level of degradation in dealing with the laws of the land  air. There
 will
 always be renegades in every avenue of life, but we are not in that
 classification :-) and given a little time we will be someone to be
 reckoned
 with as the industry leader in wireless across this country.
 
  I must admit that I have learned a few things in the past week - or
had
 some things clarified that were quite an awakening for me and a few
 others.
 I (for one) will not deploy even one more piece of hardware that is
not
 FCC
 certified. I have in the last year deployed many unlicensed access
 points 
 back haul radios though. I made a terrible mistake in doing that, but
I
 was
 under a false impression of what was legal. The path we will follow
 from
 this point on is what is really going to count.
 
  I do happen to know of two manufacturers who have gear at FCC
 certification
 labs today undergoing their certifications for some specific pieces of
 their
 gear. This is something that should have taken place a couple years
ago,
 but
 now is better than never. I realize that is not going to affect the
gear
 I
 have in the air today from these guys as it can not be certified -
ever
 -
 even if they happen to get the exact gear certified that I have on
 towers
 today.
 
 I think this last visit WISPA members (Thanks men) made to the FCC
 clarified
 several things that needed clarification:
 
 1. FILLOUT THOSE FORMS!
The FCC is not out to get us. They need the data that only we can
 supply
 them - like who we are, where we are (zip code), how many subs...Etc
 
 This is their way of helping us. With out this data they can only
guess
 how
 many we are, how many we serve and the actual coverage area total.
 Guys -
 y'all please fill out the form 477 - - it's a good thing for us all.
 
 2. WE ARE NOT LEGAL EVEN IF WE ARE NOT OVER POWERED OR OUT OF BAND.
 I am not going into any details here because that is stated just
as
 simple as it can get.

 Sincerely,
 Mac Dearman
 
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:33 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being
 stickerconscious or not??
 
 Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry?
 Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated
to
 us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been
 reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker
conscious?
 Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I
 don't give

Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about beingsticker conscious or not??

2007-02-18 Thread rabbtux rabbtux

Great. I looked into it.

From the Tranzeo website, I find  the TR5a series for $367, and the

lowest cost 5Ghz unit at $287 (16db antenna) which isn't good for the
4-5 mile range.  I doubt they will cut prices to $170 for an order of
5. Is there somewhere else I can look, Tranzeo looks like nice
gear.

On 2/18/07, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

That'd be Tranzeo. Not sure the volume that gets you that price, but I
know some who pay that for their 802.11a stuff. It has some nice
features, to include even 5 MHz channels. Tranzeo is doing lots of
things right and they've earned the loyalty of some WISPs I respect
hugely, and that's good enough for me.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of rabbtux rabbtux
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 2:30 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about
beingsticker conscious or not??

-snip-
That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range
from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 --
that's cheap.
-snip-

Patrick, your input on low cost 5.8 CPEs is appreciated.  Please let
me know where I can purchase 5.8G CPEs at $170?  We need to purchase
1-5 units at a time.   Is there an Alvarion product to meet this
need??

On 2/18/07, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry?
 Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated
to
 us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been
 reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker
conscious?
 Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I
 don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be
 legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range
 from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 --
 that's cheap.

 My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a
 special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls.

 Patrick Leary
 AVP WISP Markets
 Alvarion, Inc.
 o: 650.314.2628
 c: 760.580.0080
 Vonage: 650.641.1243
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Sam Tetherow
 Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable 5.8G cpe suggestions?

 RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious.
 If you are sticker conscious I use the Tranzeo TR5a-24/20 with MT/CM9
 setups and they work great.

 Sam Tetherow
 Sandhills Wireless

 rabbtux rabbtux wrote:
  Not to stir the fcc sticker debate, but what gear is out there
today
  that is compatable with a MT/SR5 access point?   Looking for lower
  cost CPEs for 1-5 mile deployments.
  Thanks

 --
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





 
 This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
 PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
 computer viruses(190).


 







 

 This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by

 PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
 computer viruses(42).



 









 
 This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
 PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
 computer viruses.


 








 This footnote confirms that this email message has been
scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code,
vandals  computer viruses(84).












 This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
 PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses.






 --
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail

Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simplyabout beingstickerconscious or not??

2007-02-18 Thread George Rogato

Aw come on now.

Thats  was just a not well thought out hip shot slur.

Fact was you just said Tranzeo you admired. They were innovative. Been 
there for 5 years now. I used them when you were selling FHSS as the 
ultimate 2.4 solution.


Here is you chance, list your companies innovations by chronological 
order starting the day you took the evangelist job up until now, and I 
will demonstrate to you, how the big manufacturers hold us up.


Again, not a rub against Alvarion, I truly respect your company, but, I 
want to make a point here.


George


Patrick Leary wrote:

George, ones person's innovation is something that might another
person nothing but migraines. If you think you getting cutting edge
innovation and state of the art technology from the uncertified
manufacturers I don't know what to tell you except your technology
exposure may be a bit narrow.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of George Rogato
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 5:55 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simplyabout
beingstickerconscious or not??

Ho ho ho Patrick,

So, to add to the list of reasons why a lot of wisps use uncertified
gear.

One reason that was exposed, was that manufacturers were not keeping up 
with technology fast enough and the kit systems offered newer technology


and allowed a wisp to be more innovative

What say you Mr. Leary?
Has Alvarion been keeping up fast enough?


George

(oh yeah, I also think there was a lot of crap slung as cpe's)


Patrick Leary wrote:


Mac,

That's good news that some previously illegal gear is now undergoing


FCC


certification. It is good for everyone, regardless of what finally led
them to earn it. As WISPs, you should use that cert as a minimum


litmus


test, because it will tell you much more than just the cert itself; it
tells you that the vendor actual is concerned about YOUR business, not
just the money that can made off you. You should say to any illegal
vendor that you might use, You know, I like your features and price,
but before I undertake any more study about the possibility of buying
your gear you need have your system FCC certified. Do that and those
guys will change their habits in a hurry.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


On


Behalf Of Mac Dearman
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:17 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about
beingstickerconscious or not??

Hold your Horses there Sir Patrick! There was one comment that used


that


in
their post - I don't think that we as an industry have evolved to


that


level of degradation in dealing with the laws of the land  air. There
will
always be renegades in every avenue of life, but we are not in that
classification :-) and given a little time we will be someone to be
reckoned
with as the industry leader in wireless across this country.

I must admit that I have learned a few things in the past week - or


had


some things clarified that were quite an awakening for me and a few
others.
I (for one) will not deploy even one more piece of hardware that is


not


FCC
certified. I have in the last year deployed many unlicensed access
points 
back haul radios though. I made a terrible mistake in doing that, but


I


was
under a false impression of what was legal. The path we will follow
from
this point on is what is really going to count.

I do happen to know of two manufacturers who have gear at FCC
certification
labs today undergoing their certifications for some specific pieces of
their
gear. This is something that should have taken place a couple years


ago,


but
now is better than never. I realize that is not going to affect the


gear


I
have in the air today from these guys as it can not be certified -


ever


-
even if they happen to get the exact gear certified that I have on
towers
today.

I think this last visit WISPA members (Thanks men) made to the FCC
clarified
several things that needed clarification:

1. FILLOUT THOSE FORMS!
  The FCC is not out to get us. They need the data that only we can
supply
them - like who we are, where we are (zip code), how many subs...Etc

This is their way of helping us. With out this data they can only


guess


how
many we are, how many we serve and the actual coverage area total.
Guys -
y'all please fill out the form 477 - - it's a good thing for us all.

2. WE ARE NOT LEGAL EVEN IF WE ARE NOT OVER POWERED OR OUT OF BAND.
   I am not going into any details here because that is stated just


as


simple as it can get.
  
Sincerely,

Mac Dearman




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????

2007-02-18 Thread John Scrivner
I was honestly not sure what he was saying. For all I know he was saying 
these are available in legal form at this price. I have heard they are 
out there and that there are two which have been certified for legal use 
in the Us but nobody has ever said what brand they are, who sells them, 
what they cost, etc.. I was not insinuating anything. Just curious what 
he was saying here.

Scriv


J. Vogel wrote:


John,

Maybe I missed something, but how do you get from Travis' statement that
any user could do it, to questioning Travis as to whether that was a
claim to
have done it himself?

John Vogel

John Scrivner wrote:
 


Travis,
Are saying you are using 5.4 GHz radios in the US?
Scriv


Travis Johnson wrote:

   


snip

Yes, DoD may have a little more push with the FCC, but, who's to say
someone can't buy 5.4ghz right now today and put it up? Any user with
internet access could order and install a 5.4ghz AP tomorrow for
less than $300...

Travis



 


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simplyabout beingstickerconscious or not??

2007-02-18 Thread George Rogato
And, just list the American UL stuff, skip the non American and licensed 
gear.




George Rogato wrote:

Aw come on now.

Thats  was just a not well thought out hip shot slur.

Fact was you just said Tranzeo you admired. They were innovative. Been 
there for 5 years now. I used them when you were selling FHSS as the 
ultimate 2.4 solution.


Here is you chance, list your companies innovations by chronological 
order starting the day you took the evangelist job up until now, and I 
will demonstrate to you, how the big manufacturers hold us up.


Again, not a rub against Alvarion, I truly respect your company, but, I 
want to make a point here.


George


Patrick Leary wrote:


George, ones person's innovation is something that might another
person nothing but migraines. If you think you getting cutting edge
innovation and state of the art technology from the uncertified
manufacturers I don't know what to tell you except your technology
exposure may be a bit narrow.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of George Rogato
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 5:55 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simplyabout
beingstickerconscious or not??

Ho ho ho Patrick,

So, to add to the list of reasons why a lot of wisps use uncertified
gear.

One reason that was exposed, was that manufacturers were not keeping 
up with technology fast enough and the kit systems offered newer 
technology


and allowed a wisp to be more innovative

What say you Mr. Leary?
Has Alvarion been keeping up fast enough?


George

(oh yeah, I also think there was a lot of crap slung as cpe's)


Patrick Leary wrote:


Mac,

That's good news that some previously illegal gear is now undergoing



FCC


certification. It is good for everyone, regardless of what finally led
them to earn it. As WISPs, you should use that cert as a minimum



litmus


test, because it will tell you much more than just the cert itself; it
tells you that the vendor actual is concerned about YOUR business, not
just the money that can made off you. You should say to any illegal
vendor that you might use, You know, I like your features and price,
but before I undertake any more study about the possibility of buying
your gear you need have your system FCC certified. Do that and those
guys will change their habits in a hurry.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



On


Behalf Of Mac Dearman
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:17 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about
beingstickerconscious or not??

Hold your Horses there Sir Patrick! There was one comment that used



that


in
their post - I don't think that we as an industry have evolved to



that


level of degradation in dealing with the laws of the land  air. There
will
always be renegades in every avenue of life, but we are not in that
classification :-) and given a little time we will be someone to be
reckoned
with as the industry leader in wireless across this country.

I must admit that I have learned a few things in the past week - or



had


some things clarified that were quite an awakening for me and a few
others.
I (for one) will not deploy even one more piece of hardware that is



not


FCC
certified. I have in the last year deployed many unlicensed access
points 
back haul radios though. I made a terrible mistake in doing that, but



I


was
under a false impression of what was legal. The path we will follow
from
this point on is what is really going to count.

I do happen to know of two manufacturers who have gear at FCC
certification
labs today undergoing their certifications for some specific pieces of
their
gear. This is something that should have taken place a couple years



ago,


but
now is better than never. I realize that is not going to affect the



gear


I
have in the air today from these guys as it can not be certified -



ever


-
even if they happen to get the exact gear certified that I have on
towers
today.

I think this last visit WISPA members (Thanks men) made to the FCC
clarified
several things that needed clarification:

1. FILLOUT THOSE FORMS!
  The FCC is not out to get us. They need the data that only we can
supply
them - like who we are, where we are (zip code), how many subs...Etc

This is their way of helping us. With out this data they can only



guess


how
many we are, how many we serve and the actual coverage area total.
Guys -
y'all please fill out the form 477 - - it's a good thing for us all.

2. WE ARE NOT LEGAL EVEN IF WE ARE NOT OVER POWERED OR OUT OF BAND.
   I am not going into any details here because that is stated just



as


simple as it can

RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simplyabout beingstickerconscious or not??

2007-02-18 Thread wispa
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 20:52:04 -0800, Patrick Leary wrote
 George, ones person's innovation is something that might another
 person nothing but migraines. If you think you getting cutting edge
 innovation and state of the art technology from the uncertified
 manufacturers I don't know what to tell you except your technology
 exposure may be a bit narrow.

But Patrick, it's NOT uncertified manufacturers as if we're talking about 
some big greedy corporation.

Unless you refer to me.  Or the guy down the street.  Or even the woman over 
in the next town.  Or THOUSANDS of people all over the world who find that 
what they want to do is either not supported by something off the shelf, or 
never even conceived by some engineer, or didn't make it past the marketing 
and budgeting departments.

Download an open and free bit of Linux.  Buy a surplus CPU board.  Buy 
whatever radio module you want or need.  Put it in a box and VIOLA, you 
already have more features most WISP Network operators wnat, than Alvarion 
can figure out how to put in a box.  

Does it have cutting edge RF qualities?  Nope.   Does it have Cisco quality 
routing?  Nope.  Does it have -100 to +200 degree temperature range?  Nope. 

But, none of those are required.  I don't have to the BEST rf front end and 
features to be successful.  I just have to have to have the ones I find 
necessary, and the ability to get those things changed I need changed.  And 
these people are endlessly exploring and refining mesh networks, customer 
controls, routing, etc, etc... and THEY NEVER STOP.   

So, if I want the lowest priced VL stuff to route and do NAT at the 
customer's end, will Alvarion  build it in for me?  No?  Gee, that's already 
in the FREE stuff.  Huh. 

Next time you whine that there's uncertified manufacturers, you're talking 
about the workshops, desks, garages, offices, or even spare bedrooms of 
THOUSANDS and thousands of people spread all around the country.  

And we shoulid NOT be stifled by a rigid and corporate-centric regulatory 
straightjacket.  

 
 Patrick Leary
 AVP WISP Markets
 Alvarion, Inc.
 o: 650.314.2628
 c: 760.580.0080
 Vonage: 650.641.1243
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 



Mark Koskenmaki   Neofast, Inc
Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains
541-969-8200

-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply aboutbeingsticker conscious or not??

2007-02-18 Thread Patrick Leary
Don't make too many assumptions about what your price will be by looking
at list prices, for example, our CPE available in the AlvarionCOMNET
program for $285 (does require a 25 per quarter commitment), lists with
a MSRP of $1,095. Not being too familiar with Tranzeo, you'll have to
ask them or their users about what can be done with a qty of 5. Matt
Larson is a WISPA leader and one of the most respectable WISPs. He loves
Tranzeo and can point you in the right direction.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of rabbtux rabbtux
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 8:52 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply
aboutbeingsticker conscious or not??

Great. I looked into it.
From the Tranzeo website, I find  the TR5a series for $367, and the
lowest cost 5Ghz unit at $287 (16db antenna) which isn't good for the
4-5 mile range.  I doubt they will cut prices to $170 for an order of
5. Is there somewhere else I can look, Tranzeo looks like nice
gear.

On 2/18/07, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 That'd be Tranzeo. Not sure the volume that gets you that price, but I
 know some who pay that for their 802.11a stuff. It has some nice
 features, to include even 5 MHz channels. Tranzeo is doing lots of
 things right and they've earned the loyalty of some WISPs I respect
 hugely, and that's good enough for me.

 Patrick Leary
 AVP WISP Markets
 Alvarion, Inc.
 o: 650.314.2628
 c: 760.580.0080
 Vonage: 650.641.1243
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of rabbtux rabbtux
 Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 2:30 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about
 beingsticker conscious or not??

 -snip-
 That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range
 from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 --
 that's cheap.
 -snip-

 Patrick, your input on low cost 5.8 CPEs is appreciated.  Please let
 me know where I can purchase 5.8G CPEs at $170?  We need to purchase
 1-5 units at a time.   Is there an Alvarion product to meet this
 need??

 On 2/18/07, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry?
  Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated
 to
  us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been
  reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker
 conscious?
  Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I
  don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to
be
  legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the
range
  from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300
--
  that's cheap.
 
  My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install
a
  special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls.
 
  Patrick Leary
  AVP WISP Markets
  Alvarion, Inc.
  o: 650.314.2628
  c: 760.580.0080
  Vonage: 650.641.1243
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
  Behalf Of Sam Tetherow
  Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable 5.8G cpe suggestions?
 
  RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious.
  If you are sticker conscious I use the Tranzeo TR5a-24/20 with
MT/CM9
  setups and they work great.
 
  Sam Tetherow
  Sandhills Wireless
 
  rabbtux rabbtux wrote:
   Not to stir the fcc sticker debate, but what gear is out there
 today
   that is compatable with a MT/SR5 access point?   Looking for lower
   cost CPEs for 1-5 mile deployments.
   Thanks
 
  --
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
 


  
  This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
  PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
  computer viruses(190).
 


  
 
 
 
 
 
 


  
 
  This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
 
  PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
  computer viruses(42).
 
 


  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


  
  This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
  PineApp Mail-SeCure

Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simplyabout beingstickerconscious or not??

2007-02-18 Thread Tom DeReggi

Be careful George, you are taunting Patrick with that one. :-)
The last time someone did that, he posted a several page book, listing about 
50 reasons how the VL series innovated beyond its competitors. Alvarion may 
not offer all the same flexibility as the other oem products, but it sure is 
leading the industry with innovation of many unique features.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 8:54 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simplyabout 
beingstickerconscious or not??




Ho ho ho Patrick,

So, to add to the list of reasons why a lot of wisps use uncertified gear.

One reason that was exposed, was that manufacturers were not keeping up 
with technology fast enough and the kit systems offered newer technology 
and allowed a wisp to be more innovative


What say you Mr. Leary?
Has Alvarion been keeping up fast enough?


George

(oh yeah, I also think there was a lot of crap slung as cpe's)


Patrick Leary wrote:

Mac,

That's good news that some previously illegal gear is now undergoing FCC
certification. It is good for everyone, regardless of what finally led
them to earn it. As WISPs, you should use that cert as a minimum litmus
test, because it will tell you much more than just the cert itself; it
tells you that the vendor actual is concerned about YOUR business, not
just the money that can made off you. You should say to any illegal
vendor that you might use, You know, I like your features and price,
but before I undertake any more study about the possibility of buying
your gear you need have your system FCC certified. Do that and those
guys will change their habits in a hurry.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mac Dearman
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:17 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about
beingstickerconscious or not??

Hold your Horses there Sir Patrick! There was one comment that used that
in
their post - I don't think that we as an industry have evolved to that
level of degradation in dealing with the laws of the land  air. There
will
always be renegades in every avenue of life, but we are not in that
classification :-) and given a little time we will be someone to be
reckoned
with as the industry leader in wireless across this country.

 I must admit that I have learned a few things in the past week - or had
some things clarified that were quite an awakening for me and a few
others.
I (for one) will not deploy even one more piece of hardware that is not
FCC
certified. I have in the last year deployed many unlicensed access
points 
back haul radios though. I made a terrible mistake in doing that, but I
was
under a false impression of what was legal. The path we will follow
from
this point on is what is really going to count.

 I do happen to know of two manufacturers who have gear at FCC
certification
labs today undergoing their certifications for some specific pieces of
their
gear. This is something that should have taken place a couple years ago,
but
now is better than never. I realize that is not going to affect the gear
I
have in the air today from these guys as it can not be certified - ever
-
even if they happen to get the exact gear certified that I have on
towers
today.

I think this last visit WISPA members (Thanks men) made to the FCC
clarified
several things that needed clarification:

1. FILLOUT THOSE FORMS!
   The FCC is not out to get us. They need the data that only we can
supply
them - like who we are, where we are (zip code), how many subs...Etc

This is their way of helping us. With out this data they can only guess
how
many we are, how many we serve and the actual coverage area total.
Guys -
y'all please fill out the form 477 - - it's a good thing for us all.

2. WE ARE NOT LEGAL EVEN IF WE ARE NOT OVER POWERED OR OUT OF BAND.
I am not going into any details here because that is stated just as
simple as it can get.
   Sincerely,
Mac Dearman




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:33 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being
stickerconscious or not??

Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry?
Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to
us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been
reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious?
Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I
don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be
legal! That's not an argument

Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????

2007-02-18 Thread Tom DeReggi
Anything that uses an Atheros chipset can do 5.4Ghz, if the software driver 
has not been modified to restrict it.
Any of these radios packaged for international use, may have an option to 
select 5.4Ghz.

Or for that matter download and flash an Inernational Firmware.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:57 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?


I was honestly not sure what he was saying. For all I know he was saying 
these are available in legal form at this price. I have heard they are out 
there and that there are two which have been certified for legal use in the 
Us but nobody has ever said what brand they are, who sells them, what they 
cost, etc.. I was not insinuating anything. Just curious what he was saying 
here.

Scriv


J. Vogel wrote:


John,

Maybe I missed something, but how do you get from Travis' statement that
any user could do it, to questioning Travis as to whether that was a
claim to
have done it himself?

John Vogel

John Scrivner wrote:


Travis,
Are saying you are using 5.4 GHz radios in the US?
Scriv


Travis Johnson wrote:



snip

Yes, DoD may have a little more push with the FCC, but, who's to say
someone can't buy 5.4ghz right now today and put it up? Any user with
internet access could order and install a 5.4ghz AP tomorrow for
less than $300...

Travis





--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules arenow simplyabout beingstickerconscious or not??

2007-02-18 Thread Patrick Leary
George, this is a child's game. The market is the arbiter of who and
what is successful and our macro success is there for all to read via
any of the market reports about this space since there were reports. And
as a public company, our financials are there for all the study.

Now, that said, has Alvarion been on the forefront of product innovation
for the small WISP? No, not by a long shot. Is that supposed to be some
secret? Since 2000'ish our development in UL has been aimed at the
premium WISPs and other top UL operators. We are the product many a
funded or professional WISP starts with. We are the gear some grow in
to. My work of late has been to try to bring this premium product within
the realm of most WISPs, thus the AlvarionCOMNET program.

When I began my WISP advocacy, there was no small WISP, large WISP, ILEC
WISP, utility WISP or muni WISP. There was no Trango (Sunstream had not
even launched), there was no Canopy (the technology had been created in
the early 90's but the exec engineer that created it did not yet have
the internal power to market it), there was no Tranzeo, SmartBridges,
etc. All WISPs were small WISPs and we were dominant, maybe only because
we paid attention to the market before any professional company and
built for it. We did see the stratification coming though (our vision
has always been excellent, better than our execution some times), and as
was more our technological, corporate and customer character, we aimed
for the premium and hit that and then some. Motorola aimed for the
center; and with the simplicity and the power of their brand, they hit
that and then some. Tranzeo and SmartBridges aimed at smaller WISPs and
those with less access to funds. They hit that. 

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of George Rogato
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 8:57 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules arenow simplyabout
beingstickerconscious or not??

Aw come on now.

Thats  was just a not well thought out hip shot slur.

Fact was you just said Tranzeo you admired. They were innovative. Been 
there for 5 years now. I used them when you were selling FHSS as the 
ultimate 2.4 solution.

Here is you chance, list your companies innovations by chronological 
order starting the day you took the evangelist job up until now, and I 
will demonstrate to you, how the big manufacturers hold us up.

Again, not a rub against Alvarion, I truly respect your company, but, I 
want to make a point here.

George


Patrick Leary wrote:
 George, ones person's innovation is something that might another
 person nothing but migraines. If you think you getting cutting edge
 innovation and state of the art technology from the uncertified
 manufacturers I don't know what to tell you except your technology
 exposure may be a bit narrow.
 
 Patrick Leary
 AVP WISP Markets
 Alvarion, Inc.
 o: 650.314.2628
 c: 760.580.0080
 Vonage: 650.641.1243
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of George Rogato
 Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 5:55 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simplyabout
 beingstickerconscious or not??
 
 Ho ho ho Patrick,
 
 So, to add to the list of reasons why a lot of wisps use uncertified
 gear.
 
 One reason that was exposed, was that manufacturers were not keeping
up 
 with technology fast enough and the kit systems offered newer
technology
 
 and allowed a wisp to be more innovative
 
 What say you Mr. Leary?
 Has Alvarion been keeping up fast enough?
 
 
 George
 
 (oh yeah, I also think there was a lot of crap slung as cpe's)
 
 
 Patrick Leary wrote:
 
Mac,

That's good news that some previously illegal gear is now undergoing
 
 FCC
 
certification. It is good for everyone, regardless of what finally led
them to earn it. As WISPs, you should use that cert as a minimum
 
 litmus
 
test, because it will tell you much more than just the cert itself; it
tells you that the vendor actual is concerned about YOUR business, not
just the money that can made off you. You should say to any illegal
vendor that you might use, You know, I like your features and price,
but before I undertake any more study about the possibility of buying
your gear you need have your system FCC certified. Do that and those
guys will change their habits in a hurry.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 On
 
Behalf Of Mac Dearman
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:17 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about
beingstickerconscious or not??

Hold your Horses there Sir Patrick! There was one comment

Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about being sticker conscious or not??

2007-02-18 Thread Sam Tetherow
You know Patrick, I for the most part have respect for you and your 
opinion, but when it comes to this issue you are so blinded by it you 
don't even stop to think about your reply.


I stated it that way because I have absolutely no idea if rabbtux 
rabbtux is in the US or not. It is a gmail account so it could be 
anywhere world wide.


They stated that they were looking for something that would work with an 
MT/SR5 combination so I replied that if the sticker is not important 
(which it probably isn't since they are use an MT/SR5 as the AP) they 
could use a RB112 and CM9 with good result.


I added on the fact that Tranzeo makes eqiupment that will meet their 
specifications and is FCC approved so that they (and others) know that 
there is certified equipment that meet their criteria.


I will echo Mark's (?) comment from somewhere in the fact that in the 
certified realm there isn't much that comes close to the flexibility and 
power of either StarOS or MT. The problem with the Premium CPE is that 
it attaches to a Premium PROPRIETARY AP. The power of StarOS and MT is 
in the fact that the user is not stuck buying everything from a single 
manufacturer. If PCEngines EOLs a model of wrap board there is always 
gateworks or MT. If StarOS adds a new advanced routing protocol MT users 
can switch with only the change of an AP and gain the full advantage and 
in some cases they doesn't even have to change AP hardware. If 
Smartbridges equipment goes to crap you can change to Senao, if Senao 
EOLs a CPE you can switch to Tranzeo.


In the Premium world if Trango decides to EOL a line of equipment or 
manufacturing quality tanks you are stuck with:

1. buy refurb/used equipment
2. hang dual APs to handle new growth
3. swap equipment around in your network so that vendor/product A is on 
the east side of your coverage area...

4. Replace CPEs with new line of product

There is a LOT more to the certified debate than the fact that Motorola, 
Trango and Alvarion have finally gotten CPE price down to $200.


Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless

Patrick Leary wrote:

Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry?
Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated to
us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been
reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker conscious?
Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I
don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be
legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range
from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 --
that's cheap. 


My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a
special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Sam Tetherow
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable 5.8G cpe suggestions?

RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious.
If you are sticker conscious I use the Tranzeo TR5a-24/20 with MT/CM9 
setups and they work great.


Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless

rabbtux rabbtux wrote:
  

Not to stir the fcc sticker debate, but what gear is out there today
that is compatable with a MT/SR5 access point?   Looking for lower
cost CPEs for 1-5 mile deployments.
Thanks



  


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????

2007-02-18 Thread Peter R.

wispa wrote:

Once we're a regulated industry, and at this point the FCC and Congress are 
SERIOUSLY attempting to take control the WISP and ISP business, we exist, or 
we do not exist, at the stroke of a pen, totally at the WHIM of someone who 
neither knows, nor cares, whether we live or die, nor the impact on the lives 
of the people we service. 


This IS a regulated industry. I think people have failed to notice that.

- Peter
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????

2007-02-18 Thread Sam Tetherow

How true, how true.  It is just a question of how much regulation

   Sam Tetherow
   Sandhills Wireless

Peter R. wrote:

wispa wrote:

Once we're a regulated industry, and at this point the FCC and 
Congress are SERIOUSLY attempting to take control the WISP and ISP 
business, we exist, or we do not exist, at the stroke of a pen, 
totally at the WHIM of someone who neither knows, nor cares, whether 
we live or die, nor the impact on the lives of the people we service.

This IS a regulated industry. I think people have failed to notice that.

- Peter


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


NON U.S. and Canada WISPs? was RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ...

2007-02-18 Thread Patrick Leary
Sam, you are right. During this whole thread I have been reflexive about
assuming U.S. and I did assume you discussing it from a U.S. standpoint.
I was wrong to assume that and I apologize.

To all non-U.S. (well, this really does include Canada since the domains
share so much in common from a UL standpoint), this must indeed be mind
numbing. 

What would be VERY interesting would be for the non-North American WISPs
to tell us their opinions about compliance relative to their regions. I
have assumptions there too, but MUCH less knowledge and experience so
the better part of valor is shut up and listen.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Sam Tetherow
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:40 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply about
beingsticker conscious or not??

You know Patrick, I for the most part have respect for you and your 
opinion, but when it comes to this issue you are so blinded by it you 
don't even stop to think about your reply.

I stated it that way because I have absolutely no idea if rabbtux 
rabbtux is in the US or not. It is a gmail account so it could be 
anywhere world wide.

They stated that they were looking for something that would work with an

MT/SR5 combination so I replied that if the sticker is not important 
(which it probably isn't since they are use an MT/SR5 as the AP) they 
could use a RB112 and CM9 with good result.

I added on the fact that Tranzeo makes eqiupment that will meet their 
specifications and is FCC approved so that they (and others) know that 
there is certified equipment that meet their criteria.

I will echo Mark's (?) comment from somewhere in the fact that in the 
certified realm there isn't much that comes close to the flexibility and

power of either StarOS or MT. The problem with the Premium CPE is that

it attaches to a Premium PROPRIETARY AP. The power of StarOS and MT is 
in the fact that the user is not stuck buying everything from a single 
manufacturer. If PCEngines EOLs a model of wrap board there is always 
gateworks or MT. If StarOS adds a new advanced routing protocol MT users

can switch with only the change of an AP and gain the full advantage and

in some cases they doesn't even have to change AP hardware. If 
Smartbridges equipment goes to crap you can change to Senao, if Senao 
EOLs a CPE you can switch to Tranzeo.

In the Premium world if Trango decides to EOL a line of equipment or 
manufacturing quality tanks you are stuck with:
1. buy refurb/used equipment
2. hang dual APs to handle new growth
3. swap equipment around in your network so that vendor/product A is on 
the east side of your coverage area...
4. Replace CPEs with new line of product

There is a LOT more to the certified debate than the fact that Motorola,

Trango and Alvarion have finally gotten CPE price down to $200.

Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless

Patrick Leary wrote:
 Sticker conscious? So this is what we've become as an industry?
 Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated
to
 us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been
 reduced to simply being sticker conscious or not sticker
conscious?
 Why not go further and call yourself Illegal and proud or just I
 don't give a ? Let's not have any more gee, I can't afford to be
 legal! That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range
 from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 --
 that's cheap. 

 My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a
 special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls.

 Patrick Leary
 AVP WISP Markets
 Alvarion, Inc.
 o: 650.314.2628
 c: 760.580.0080
 Vonage: 650.641.1243
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Sam Tetherow
 Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable 5.8G cpe suggestions?

 RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious.
 If you are sticker conscious I use the Tranzeo TR5a-24/20 with MT/CM9 
 setups and they work great.

 Sam Tetherow
 Sandhills Wireless

 rabbtux rabbtux wrote:
   
 Not to stir the fcc sticker debate, but what gear is out there
today
 that is compatable with a MT/SR5 access point?   Looking for lower
 cost CPEs for 1-5 mile deployments.
 Thanks
 

   

-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses(190

Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????

2007-02-18 Thread Matt Larsen - Lists

I think everyone is missing the real problem with 5.4ghz.

How big of a piece of crap is our military radar that a $49 minipci 
wireless card and a homemade pringles antenna can render it useless???


;^)

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


J. Vogel wrote:

Fair enough. I might have been a little on the touchy side myself there.
In the context of
what I had been reading, particularly a comment about how the use of 5.4
was going to
require someone to install another phone line just to handle complaints
from the DoD,
coupled with the current excitement around the list that some WISPs have
*gasp* been
using un-certified gear, it appeared to me that your question might have
been motivated
by suspicion in that regard.

Thanks for the clarification.

John Vogel



  


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


RE: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????

2007-02-18 Thread Patrick Leary
:) But their guns are huge.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:32 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?

I think everyone is missing the real problem with 5.4ghz.

How big of a piece of crap is our military radar that a $49 minipci 
wireless card and a homemade pringles antenna can render it useless???

;^)

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


J. Vogel wrote:
 Fair enough. I might have been a little on the touchy side myself
there.
 In the context of
 what I had been reading, particularly a comment about how the use of
5.4
 was going to
 require someone to install another phone line just to handle
complaints
 from the DoD,
 coupled with the current excitement around the list that some WISPs
have
 *gasp* been
 using un-certified gear, it appeared to me that your question might
have
 been motivated
 by suspicion in that regard.

 Thanks for the clarification.

 John Vogel



   

-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses(190).










This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by

PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses(43).








 
 


This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses.









 This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp 
Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals  computer viruses(84). 









This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals  computer 
viruses.




--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply aboutbeingsticker conscious or not??

2007-02-18 Thread Matt Larsen - Lists
I believe the new Tranzeo SL5-16 is around the $170 price range in 
quantity 20.They are available directly from Tranzeo or from 
distributors in the US like ElectroComm, Doubleradius and Streakwave.  I 
have bought from all three places and they have always done good by me.


I have about 10 of the little SL5 CPEs deployed at ranges from 1/4 to 8 
miles and they are very solid performers.   The somewhat larger and more 
expensive 5a24 radios will work out to 18  miles.  802.11a is good 
stuff.  I have a post on my blog at http://www.thelar.com/ that 
describes my experience with 802.11a so far.


Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


Patrick Leary wrote:

Don't make too many assumptions about what your price will be by looking
at list prices, for example, our CPE available in the AlvarionCOMNET
program for $285 (does require a 25 per quarter commitment), lists with
a MSRP of $1,095. Not being too familiar with Tranzeo, you'll have to
ask them or their users about what can be done with a qty of 5. Matt
Larson is a WISPA leader and one of the most respectable WISPs. He loves
Tranzeo and can point you in the right direction.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of rabbtux rabbtux
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 8:52 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules are now simply
aboutbeingsticker conscious or not??

Great. I looked into it.
From the Tranzeo website, I find  the TR5a series for $367, and the
lowest cost 5Ghz unit at $287 (16db antenna) which isn't good for the
4-5 mile range.  I doubt they will cut prices to $170 for an order of
5. Is there somewhere else I can look, Tranzeo looks like nice
gear.

On 2/18/07, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

That'd be Tranzeo. Not sure the volume that gets you that price, but I
know some who pay that for their 802.11a stuff. It has some nice
features, to include even 5 MHz channels. Tranzeo is doing lots of
things right and they've earned the loyalty of some WISPs I respect
hugely, and that's good enough for me.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/