Re: [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is buying BelAir, betting on Wi-Fi

2012-02-14 Thread Troy Settle
Curious... we build wireless because we can't get fiber 'out there.'  In
fact, we're using wireless backhaul to feed FTTH.

If you're needing wireless for last-mile, how are you getting fiber to the
tower itself?  Why not just fiber to the home?

-Troy


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 3:30 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is buying
 BelAir, betting on Wi-Fi
 
 There is no more advantage to V vs. H with dual polarity equipment.
 
 More spectrum for customer access means more bits able to be moved. If I
 have a gig of wireless backhaul coming into a tower, that's a gig I
 could be using to make me money. I'd like to have 50 - 100 megabit plans
 for my broadband customers and gig+ level dedicated customers. I'm not
 using the cable or telcos, I'm using unique, usually redundant routes.
 
 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com
 
 





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is buying BelAir, betting on Wi-Fi

2012-02-14 Thread Mike Hammett
Fiber to one spot is cheaper than fiber to hundreds. Fiber to the rest 
comes gradually.

Plus, most of the time, the fiber is already there or near.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 2/14/2012 10:07 AM, Troy Settle wrote:
 Curious... we build wireless because we can't get fiber 'out there.'  In
 fact, we're using wireless backhaul to feed FTTH.

 If you're needing wireless for last-mile, how are you getting fiber to the
 tower itself?  Why not just fiber to the home?

 -Troy


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 3:30 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is buying
 BelAir, betting on Wi-Fi

 There is no more advantage to V vs. H with dual polarity equipment.

 More spectrum for customer access means more bits able to be moved. If I
 have a gig of wireless backhaul coming into a tower, that's a gig I
 could be using to make me money. I'd like to have 50 - 100 megabit plans
 for my broadband customers and gig+ level dedicated customers. I'm not
 using the cable or telcos, I'm using unique, usually redundant routes.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com





 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is buyingBelAir, betting on Wi-Fi

2012-02-10 Thread Tom DeReggi
 be that on occasion, once or twice a year tops, they close the 
streets for a city day where vendors setup booths on the street for a mini 
festaville. Its possible that on those days, the public MIGHT occasionally 
connect. Why they'd use their wifi and not their cellular broadband, I'd 
wonder.

I'm just not scared.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Jeremy L. Gaddis jer...@as54225.net
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 1:14 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is 
buyingBelAir, betting on Wi-Fi


 On Jan 26, 2012, at 11:22 PM, John Scrivner wrote:
 Here are my predictions based partly upon the acquisitions we have
 seen of Atheros by Qualcomm and now this latest play into Wifi by
 otherwise generally licensed zealots of the mobile world:

 [snip]

 I predict we'll see all this come to pass by 2017-18. We'll see how
 clear my crystal ball is in a few years. I hope you guys will remember
 this then and be sure to pull it up and make fun of me for being so
 far offor not!:-)

 I predict you'll see it well before that.

 Someone else in the thread mentioned Comcast and Time Warner planning to 
 roll out thousands of access points. Remember that both of these companies 
 are also in the cellular game now.

 What's (one of) the biggest problem(s) cellular carriers are facing right 
 now? The explosion in data traffic.

 They *need* to offload as much data traffic off of their networks as they 
 can. They simply cannot handle the projected long-term growth in data 
 traffic.

 Enter 802.11u.

 --
 Jeremy L. Gaddise: jer...@as54225.net
 Network Engineerm: +1.812.865.0581




 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is buyingBelAir, betting on Wi-Fi

2012-02-10 Thread Jeromie Reeves
 Wireline friendly
 competitors. (notice they didn't ask the actual wireless providers near by
 to participate on the project). The area is a Commercial high-rise district.
 What good did this network provide? Was there even a need? I had offered
 Free Wifi to that block for almost 5 years. (Although not for the last year,
 cause when the AP died in a storm, I didn't bother to replace it). My cell
 site was mostly used for commercial paying customers in 5.x, so it cost me
 next to nothing to add the free 2.4 wifi. I dont think I ever had more than
 5 people connect in all the years, allbeit I.didn't advertise the service's
 availabilty, and signal strength was not as strong as at street level, and
 may not have made it into actual retail suites. But even then, there was a
 local wifi guy that offered Wifi in that exact area for a while also,
 broadcasting from the roof of a couple short restaurant buildings.

 Its just a science project for them. They built it, because someone thought
 its what tey are supposed to do to keep up with the current trends, without
 even qualifying a need. I just dont see the suits leaving their office
 building to make a quick Wifi connections, standing on the street, or
 fighting for the one park bench located at one specific street corner. It
 was probably the most owrthless expendature and use of public money.  The
 outcome is nobody will use the network, and they wont repeat the model wide
 scale, unless grant funds require spending the money. The ONLY Possible
 benefit might be that on occasion, once or twice a year tops, they close the
 streets for a city day where vendors setup booths on the street for a mini
 festaville. Its possible that on those days, the public MIGHT occasionally
 connect. Why they'd use their wifi and not their cellular broadband, I'd
 wonder.

 I'm just not scared.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message -
 From: Jeremy L. Gaddis jer...@as54225.net
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 1:14 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is
 buyingBelAir, betting on Wi-Fi


 On Jan 26, 2012, at 11:22 PM, John Scrivner wrote:
 Here are my predictions based partly upon the acquisitions we have
 seen of Atheros by Qualcomm and now this latest play into Wifi by
 otherwise generally licensed zealots of the mobile world:

 [snip]

 I predict we'll see all this come to pass by 2017-18. We'll see how
 clear my crystal ball is in a few years. I hope you guys will remember
 this then and be sure to pull it up and make fun of me for being so
 far offor not!    :-)

 I predict you'll see it well before that.

 Someone else in the thread mentioned Comcast and Time Warner planning to
 roll out thousands of access points. Remember that both of these companies
 are also in the cellular game now.

 What's (one of) the biggest problem(s) cellular carriers are facing right
 now? The explosion in data traffic.

 They *need* to offload as much data traffic off of their networks as they
 can. They simply cannot handle the projected long-term growth in data
 traffic.

 Enter 802.11u.

 --
 Jeremy L. Gaddis    e: jer...@as54225.net
 Network Engineer    m: +1.812.865.0581




 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is buying BelAir, betting on Wi-Fi

2012-02-06 Thread Jeremy L. Gaddis
On Jan 26, 2012, at 11:22 PM, John Scrivner wrote:
 Here are my predictions based partly upon the acquisitions we have
 seen of Atheros by Qualcomm and now this latest play into Wifi by
 otherwise generally licensed zealots of the mobile world:

[snip]

 I predict we'll see all this come to pass by 2017-18. We'll see how
 clear my crystal ball is in a few years. I hope you guys will remember
 this then and be sure to pull it up and make fun of me for being so
 far offor not!:-)

I predict you'll see it well before that.

Someone else in the thread mentioned Comcast and Time Warner planning to roll 
out thousands of access points. Remember that both of these companies are also 
in the cellular game now.

What's (one of) the biggest problem(s) cellular carriers are facing right now? 
The explosion in data traffic.

They *need* to offload as much data traffic off of their networks as they can. 
They simply cannot handle the projected long-term growth in data traffic.

Enter 802.11u.

--
Jeremy L. Gaddise: jer...@as54225.net
Network Engineerm: +1.812.865.0581





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is buying BelAir, betting on Wi-Fi

2012-01-27 Thread Mike Hammett
Fiber to the AP is a great idea and the only way we will be able to meet 
customer demand. Within 1 year I don't think I'll have any towers that 
are more than 1 hop from fiber, with many directly on fiber.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 1/26/2012 10:22 PM, John Scrivner wrote:
 Here are my predictions based partly upon the acquisitions we have
 seen of Atheros by Qualcomm and now this latest play into Wifi by
 otherwise generally licensed zealots of the mobile world:

 The large mobile carrier equipment companies will supply Wifi
 solutions to the national players who will then build Wifi micro-cell
 infrastructure out using this commodity priced platform. Then these
 same equipment makers will develop a New and Improved line of
 pico-base LTE boxes at a better margin than the Wifi-only APs but much
 less than their LTE macro-base equivalents. Cellcos, cablecos, etc.
 will then replace their Wifi-only micro-cell APs with dual mode Wifi
 and LTE pico-bases to enable the benefits of Wifi and cellular both
 while removing the disadvantages from either platform for their needs.

 I believe that this move will enable the melding of fixed and mobile
 wireless broadband enabling WISPs to finally get into this dual game.
 Those best positioned to take advantage of this will be fiber to the
 home operators who are also WISPs who will then build out Fiber to
 the Access Point and deliver the Last 1000 feet wirelessly to their
 customers. With an infrastructure model like this ISPs can deliver the
 capacity needed for customers to supply voice, video and data while
 eliminating one of the terribly expensive parts of the FTTH platform
 invoking the drops to the homes.

 I predict we'll see all this come to pass by 2017-18. We'll see how
 clear my crystal ball is in a few years. I hope you guys will remember
 this then and be sure to pull it up and make fun of me for being so
 far offor not!:-)
 John Scrivner




 On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Jack Ungerjun...@ask-wi.com  wrote:
 In a sure sign that the cellular industry is getting serious about Wi-Fi,
 telecom networking giant Ericsson is buying BelAir Networks, adding its
 high-performance outdoor hotspot technology to its portfolio, sources told
 GigaOM. The deal could signal a big shift in the mindset of the big wireless
 vendors, which have always favored their own specialized and expensive
 cellular technologies to meet growing mobile data demand rather than more
 generic but much cheaper Wi-Fi tech...

 http://gigaom.com/broadband/ericsson-pursuing-wi-fi-with-belair-networks-buy/

 --
 Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
 Author (2003) - Deploying License-Free Wireless Wide-Area Networks
 Serving the WISP Community since 1993
 www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com






 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is buying BelAir, betting on Wi-Fi

2012-01-27 Thread Gino Villarini
Fellas, build a business plan around and obvious need of the operators  

And remember that by wifi , they mean n and future versions which use 2.4 and 
5.x ghz 

Sent from my Motorola Startac... 


On Jan 27, 2012, at 8:34 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote:

 Fiber to the AP is a great idea and the only way we will be able to meet 
 customer demand. Within 1 year I don't think I'll have any towers that 
 are more than 1 hop from fiber, with many directly on fiber.
 
 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
 
 On 1/26/2012 10:22 PM, John Scrivner wrote:
 Here are my predictions based partly upon the acquisitions we have
 seen of Atheros by Qualcomm and now this latest play into Wifi by
 otherwise generally licensed zealots of the mobile world:
 
 The large mobile carrier equipment companies will supply Wifi
 solutions to the national players who will then build Wifi micro-cell
 infrastructure out using this commodity priced platform. Then these
 same equipment makers will develop a New and Improved line of
 pico-base LTE boxes at a better margin than the Wifi-only APs but much
 less than their LTE macro-base equivalents. Cellcos, cablecos, etc.
 will then replace their Wifi-only micro-cell APs with dual mode Wifi
 and LTE pico-bases to enable the benefits of Wifi and cellular both
 while removing the disadvantages from either platform for their needs.
 
 I believe that this move will enable the melding of fixed and mobile
 wireless broadband enabling WISPs to finally get into this dual game.
 Those best positioned to take advantage of this will be fiber to the
 home operators who are also WISPs who will then build out Fiber to
 the Access Point and deliver the Last 1000 feet wirelessly to their
 customers. With an infrastructure model like this ISPs can deliver the
 capacity needed for customers to supply voice, video and data while
 eliminating one of the terribly expensive parts of the FTTH platform
 invoking the drops to the homes.
 
 I predict we'll see all this come to pass by 2017-18. We'll see how
 clear my crystal ball is in a few years. I hope you guys will remember
 this then and be sure to pull it up and make fun of me for being so
 far offor not!:-)
 John Scrivner
 
 
 
 
 On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Jack Ungerjun...@ask-wi.com  wrote:
 In a sure sign that the cellular industry is getting serious about Wi-Fi,
 telecom networking giant Ericsson is buying BelAir Networks, adding its
 high-performance outdoor hotspot technology to its portfolio, sources told
 GigaOM. The deal could signal a big shift in the mindset of the big wireless
 vendors, which have always favored their own specialized and expensive
 cellular technologies to meet growing mobile data demand rather than more
 generic but much cheaper Wi-Fi tech...
 
 http://gigaom.com/broadband/ericsson-pursuing-wi-fi-with-belair-networks-buy/
 
 --
 Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
 Author (2003) - Deploying License-Free Wireless Wide-Area Networks
 Serving the WISP Community since 1993
 www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is buying BelAir, betting on Wi-Fi

2012-01-27 Thread Roger Howard
Fiber to the AP? Why not just do an 802.11ac gigabit backhaul link to
the AP with the new Ubiquiti revolutionary radio? :)

On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 6:21 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote:
 Fiber to the AP is a great idea and the only way we will be able to meet
 customer demand. Within 1 year I don't think I'll have any towers that
 are more than 1 hop from fiber, with many directly on fiber.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 On 1/26/2012 10:22 PM, John Scrivner wrote:
 Here are my predictions based partly upon the acquisitions we have
 seen of Atheros by Qualcomm and now this latest play into Wifi by
 otherwise generally licensed zealots of the mobile world:

 The large mobile carrier equipment companies will supply Wifi
 solutions to the national players who will then build Wifi micro-cell
 infrastructure out using this commodity priced platform. Then these
 same equipment makers will develop a New and Improved line of
 pico-base LTE boxes at a better margin than the Wifi-only APs but much
 less than their LTE macro-base equivalents. Cellcos, cablecos, etc.
 will then replace their Wifi-only micro-cell APs with dual mode Wifi
 and LTE pico-bases to enable the benefits of Wifi and cellular both
 while removing the disadvantages from either platform for their needs.

 I believe that this move will enable the melding of fixed and mobile
 wireless broadband enabling WISPs to finally get into this dual game.
 Those best positioned to take advantage of this will be fiber to the
 home operators who are also WISPs who will then build out Fiber to
 the Access Point and deliver the Last 1000 feet wirelessly to their
 customers. With an infrastructure model like this ISPs can deliver the
 capacity needed for customers to supply voice, video and data while
 eliminating one of the terribly expensive parts of the FTTH platform
 invoking the drops to the homes.

 I predict we'll see all this come to pass by 2017-18. We'll see how
 clear my crystal ball is in a few years. I hope you guys will remember
 this then and be sure to pull it up and make fun of me for being so
 far offor not!    :-)
 John Scrivner




 On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Jack Ungerjun...@ask-wi.com  wrote:
 In a sure sign that the cellular industry is getting serious about Wi-Fi,
 telecom networking giant Ericsson is buying BelAir Networks, adding its
 high-performance outdoor hotspot technology to its portfolio, sources told
 GigaOM. The deal could signal a big shift in the mindset of the big wireless
 vendors, which have always favored their own specialized and expensive
 cellular technologies to meet growing mobile data demand rather than more
 generic but much cheaper Wi-Fi tech...

 http://gigaom.com/broadband/ericsson-pursuing-wi-fi-with-belair-networks-buy/

 --
 Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
 Author (2003) - Deploying License-Free Wireless Wide-Area Networks
 Serving the WISP Community since 1993
 www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com






 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is buying BelAir, betting on Wi-Fi

2012-01-27 Thread John Scrivner
I am just making a prediction. I believe those with infrastructure in
the air and the ground will be deploying these micro-cell platforms
like crazy. Will you? Do you now?
Scriv


On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Roger Howard g5inter...@gmail.com wrote:
 Fiber to the AP? Why not just do an 802.11ac gigabit backhaul link to
 the AP with the new Ubiquiti revolutionary radio? :)

 On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 6:21 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net 
 wrote:
 Fiber to the AP is a great idea and the only way we will be able to meet
 customer demand. Within 1 year I don't think I'll have any towers that
 are more than 1 hop from fiber, with many directly on fiber.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 On 1/26/2012 10:22 PM, John Scrivner wrote:
 Here are my predictions based partly upon the acquisitions we have
 seen of Atheros by Qualcomm and now this latest play into Wifi by
 otherwise generally licensed zealots of the mobile world:

 The large mobile carrier equipment companies will supply Wifi
 solutions to the national players who will then build Wifi micro-cell
 infrastructure out using this commodity priced platform. Then these
 same equipment makers will develop a New and Improved line of
 pico-base LTE boxes at a better margin than the Wifi-only APs but much
 less than their LTE macro-base equivalents. Cellcos, cablecos, etc.
 will then replace their Wifi-only micro-cell APs with dual mode Wifi
 and LTE pico-bases to enable the benefits of Wifi and cellular both
 while removing the disadvantages from either platform for their needs.

 I believe that this move will enable the melding of fixed and mobile
 wireless broadband enabling WISPs to finally get into this dual game.
 Those best positioned to take advantage of this will be fiber to the
 home operators who are also WISPs who will then build out Fiber to
 the Access Point and deliver the Last 1000 feet wirelessly to their
 customers. With an infrastructure model like this ISPs can deliver the
 capacity needed for customers to supply voice, video and data while
 eliminating one of the terribly expensive parts of the FTTH platform
 invoking the drops to the homes.

 I predict we'll see all this come to pass by 2017-18. We'll see how
 clear my crystal ball is in a few years. I hope you guys will remember
 this then and be sure to pull it up and make fun of me for being so
 far offor not!    :-)
 John Scrivner




 On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Jack Ungerjun...@ask-wi.com  wrote:
 In a sure sign that the cellular industry is getting serious about Wi-Fi,
 telecom networking giant Ericsson is buying BelAir Networks, adding its
 high-performance outdoor hotspot technology to its portfolio, sources told
 GigaOM. The deal could signal a big shift in the mindset of the big 
 wireless
 vendors, which have always favored their own specialized and expensive
 cellular technologies to meet growing mobile data demand rather than more
 generic but much cheaper Wi-Fi tech...

 http://gigaom.com/broadband/ericsson-pursuing-wi-fi-with-belair-networks-buy/

 --
 Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
 Author (2003) - Deploying License-Free Wireless Wide-Area Networks
 Serving the WISP Community since 1993
 www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com






 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!

Re: [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is buying BelAir, betting on Wi-Fi

2012-01-27 Thread Mike Hammett
I'd rather use spectrum to service customers, not towers.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 1/27/2012 9:23 AM, Roger Howard wrote:
 Fiber to the AP? Why not just do an 802.11ac gigabit backhaul link to
 the AP with the new Ubiquiti revolutionary radio? :)

 On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 6:21 AM, Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net  
 wrote:
 Fiber to the AP is a great idea and the only way we will be able to meet
 customer demand. Within 1 year I don't think I'll have any towers that
 are more than 1 hop from fiber, with many directly on fiber.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 On 1/26/2012 10:22 PM, John Scrivner wrote:
 Here are my predictions based partly upon the acquisitions we have
 seen of Atheros by Qualcomm and now this latest play into Wifi by
 otherwise generally licensed zealots of the mobile world:

 The large mobile carrier equipment companies will supply Wifi
 solutions to the national players who will then build Wifi micro-cell
 infrastructure out using this commodity priced platform. Then these
 same equipment makers will develop a New and Improved line of
 pico-base LTE boxes at a better margin than the Wifi-only APs but much
 less than their LTE macro-base equivalents. Cellcos, cablecos, etc.
 will then replace their Wifi-only micro-cell APs with dual mode Wifi
 and LTE pico-bases to enable the benefits of Wifi and cellular both
 while removing the disadvantages from either platform for their needs.

 I believe that this move will enable the melding of fixed and mobile
 wireless broadband enabling WISPs to finally get into this dual game.
 Those best positioned to take advantage of this will be fiber to the
 home operators who are also WISPs who will then build out Fiber to
 the Access Point and deliver the Last 1000 feet wirelessly to their
 customers. With an infrastructure model like this ISPs can deliver the
 capacity needed for customers to supply voice, video and data while
 eliminating one of the terribly expensive parts of the FTTH platform
 invoking the drops to the homes.

 I predict we'll see all this come to pass by 2017-18. We'll see how
 clear my crystal ball is in a few years. I hope you guys will remember
 this then and be sure to pull it up and make fun of me for being so
 far offor not!:-)
 John Scrivner




 On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Jack Ungerjun...@ask-wi.comwrote:
 In a sure sign that the cellular industry is getting serious about Wi-Fi,
 telecom networking giant Ericsson is buying BelAir Networks, adding its
 high-performance outdoor hotspot technology to its portfolio, sources told
 GigaOM. The deal could signal a big shift in the mindset of the big 
 wireless
 vendors, which have always favored their own specialized and expensive
 cellular technologies to meet growing mobile data demand rather than more
 generic but much cheaper Wi-Fi tech...

 http://gigaom.com/broadband/ericsson-pursuing-wi-fi-with-belair-networks-buy/

 --
 Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
 Author (2003) - Deploying License-Free Wireless Wide-Area Networks
 Serving the WISP Community since 1993
 www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com






 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

Re: [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is buying BelAir, betting on Wi-Fi

2012-01-27 Thread Bret Clark
You can still use spectrum for customers as long as your back-haul links 
use antennas with small beam widths, or run your back-haul links in 
horizontal and customer links in vertical polarity. The fact that our 
infrastructure is 100% wireless (outside our Internet upstream links) 
has been a huge selling point for us in competing with the ILEC and 
cable company!

On 01/27/2012 03:09 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
 I'd rather use spectrum to service customers, not towers.




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is buying BelAir, betting on Wi-Fi

2012-01-27 Thread Mike Hammett
There is no more advantage to V vs. H with dual polarity equipment.

More spectrum for customer access means more bits able to be moved. If I 
have a gig of wireless backhaul coming into a tower, that's a gig I 
could be using to make me money. I'd like to have 50 - 100 megabit plans 
for my broadband customers and gig+ level dedicated customers. I'm not 
using the cable or telcos, I'm using unique, usually redundant routes.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 1/27/2012 2:36 PM, Bret Clark wrote:
 You can still use spectrum for customers as long as your back-haul links
 use antennas with small beam widths, or run your back-haul links in
 horizontal and customer links in vertical polarity. The fact that our
 infrastructure is 100% wireless (outside our Internet upstream links)
 has been a huge selling point for us in competing with the ILEC and
 cable company!

 On 01/27/2012 03:09 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
 I'd rather use spectrum to service customers, not towers.


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is buying BelAir, betting on Wi-Fi

2012-01-27 Thread Brian Webster
With 10 to 18,000 nodes in a cable citywide deployment you will not have
enough spectrum to do that. These new deployments are hard wiring every node
to their infrastructure either DOCSIS or fiber. The feature of that is just
that your footprint to the end user gets smaller with more interference,
your backhaul does not get bothered. Whoever can still connect in the face
of interference can still move traffic. New consumer devices with Wi-Fi are
being built to use BOTH 2.4 and 5GHz bands. 

Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Bret Clark
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 3:37 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is buying
BelAir, betting on Wi-Fi

You can still use spectrum for customers as long as your back-haul links use
antennas with small beam widths, or run your back-haul links in horizontal
and customer links in vertical polarity. The fact that our infrastructure is
100% wireless (outside our Internet upstream links) has been a huge selling
point for us in competing with the ILEC and cable company!

On 01/27/2012 03:09 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
 I'd rather use spectrum to service customers, not towers.





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Future of WiFi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is buying BelAir, betting on Wi-Fi

2012-01-26 Thread Brian Webster
John,
I think this will happen faster than you predict. With the Lucent
light radio being software defined the technology already exists to do this.
Carrier engineering departments are just a bit slow to change. Carriers have
to look at the Pico cell design to increase capacity by more frequency reuse
in smaller footprints. Their challenge right know as you suggest if the
fiber to the pole infrastructure to serve these Pico cells. To a certain
extent they can do this now with the cable companies. These Bellaire radios
have docsis modems built right in and they are working on power over coax to
run the node radios. It's not a big stretch to change out the Wi-Fi radio
with an LTE Pico radio at all. You are spot on with your understanding of
how things will evolve. Technically it's a no brainer. The interesting part
will be the business models, partnerships and/or roaming type agreements.

Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 11:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is buying BelAir,
betting on Wi-Fi

Here are my predictions based partly upon the acquisitions we have seen of
Atheros by Qualcomm and now this latest play into Wifi by otherwise
generally licensed zealots of the mobile world:

The large mobile carrier equipment companies will supply Wifi solutions to
the national players who will then build Wifi micro-cell infrastructure out
using this commodity priced platform. Then these same equipment makers will
develop a New and Improved line of pico-base LTE boxes at a better margin
than the Wifi-only APs but much less than their LTE macro-base equivalents.
Cellcos, cablecos, etc.
will then replace their Wifi-only micro-cell APs with dual mode Wifi and LTE
pico-bases to enable the benefits of Wifi and cellular both while removing
the disadvantages from either platform for their needs.

I believe that this move will enable the melding of fixed and mobile
wireless broadband enabling WISPs to finally get into this dual game.
Those best positioned to take advantage of this will be fiber to the home
operators who are also WISPs who will then build out Fiber to the Access
Point and deliver the Last 1000 feet wirelessly to their customers. With
an infrastructure model like this ISPs can deliver the capacity needed for
customers to supply voice, video and data while eliminating one of the
terribly expensive parts of the FTTH platform invoking the drops to the
homes.

I predict we'll see all this come to pass by 2017-18. We'll see how clear my
crystal ball is in a few years. I hope you guys will remember this then and
be sure to pull it up and make fun of me for being so
far offor not!:-)
John Scrivner




On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote:
 In a sure sign that the cellular industry is getting serious about 
 Wi-Fi, telecom networking giant Ericsson is buying BelAir Networks, 
 adding its high-performance outdoor hotspot technology to its 
 portfolio, sources told GigaOM. The deal could signal a big shift in 
 the mindset of the big wireless vendors, which have always favored 
 their own specialized and expensive cellular technologies to meet 
 growing mobile data demand rather than more generic but much cheaper Wi-Fi
tech...

 http://gigaom.com/broadband/ericsson-pursuing-wi-fi-with-belair-netwo
 rks-buy/

 --
 Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
 Author (2003) - Deploying License-Free Wireless Wide-Area Networks
 Serving the WISP Community since 1993
 www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com






 --
 --
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 --
 --

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-24 Thread John Scrivner
Chuck,
I have heard that BPON is on its way out. You are using GPON? How long
have you had it in place? Is this done with passive optical splits 1
by 32? Is it Wave Division Splits? If so how many splits per node?
Still 20km distance by design? I thought there were problems with GPON
not working in 1 by 32? This is very new to me so forgive newbie
questions. If you have a link to an easy to digest primer on GPON for
newbies like me I would appreciate it. I know fiber is not really a
wireless issue itself but I am planning to start building my own fiber
backhauls to my wireless towers and inter-connecting with enterprise
customers along the way using my fiber. I think this discussion is
relevant here.
Scriv


On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 10:29 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 OK, let me put it this way; how old is the Ethernet technology/protocol you
  are using?
  How old is the 802 Ethernet spec?
  GPON G.984 compliant equipment is the same as IEEE 802 complaint equipment.
  A spec is a spec.
  The G.984 spec was ratified 5 years ago.
  How old is g.707 SONET? 15 years old?  OC-3 is still the workhorse.
  Are you worrying about the cisco switch you just put in being obsolete in 5
  or 10 years due to a change in the Ethernet protocol?
  Phone technology IS data technology.  Our network is fiber, that hauls
  phone, data, video, anything we can put on it.
  Layer 4-8 changes but layers 1,23 go on forever.
  A GPON FTTH system does not venture into anything above layer 3.  SONET is
  as likely to go away before GPON.
  Tin whiskers from RoHS,  majority charge carrier migration of semiconductors
  and electrolytic capacitor dehydration is going to kill an ONT before any
  change of technology or protocol will.


  - Original Message -
  From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org


 Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:15 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


   We think so now, but is something that came out 5 years ago still good
   enough?  Maybe, though I'm leaning towards no.  10 years?  No way.
  
   Now, yes, a class 5 would be fine because phone technology doesn't change
   nearly as much as data connectivity, especially with the Web 2.0 boom
   we're
   on the begging leg of.
  
  
   --
   Mike Hammett
   Intelligent Computing Solutions
   http://www.ics-il.com
  
  
   - Original Message -
   From: Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
   Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:03 AM
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future
  
  
  I have ONTs that are 5 years old now out in the field and are doing fine.
   I have class 5 central office switchs deployed that are closer to 10
   years
   old that are still current technology.
   What is going to get out of date with a GPON ONT?  2.4 Gbps is plenty of
   bandwidth, don't you think?
  
   - Original Message -
   From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
   Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:00 AM
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future
  
  
   The fiber would be good for 20 years and is the most costly part, but
   the
   other pieces wouldn't be good for 20 years...  I'd say only 5 years on
   active components.  They may technically work, but they'd be so outdated
   by
   then you wouldn't want them anymore.
  
  
   --
   Mike Hammett
   Intelligent Computing Solutions
   http://www.ics-il.com
  
  
   - Original Message -
   From: Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
   Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:46 AM
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future
  
  
   Highly variable.  TV content is costly.  Everyone has different costs
   for
   transport.  But if you are delivering symmetric 10-100 mbps and the TV
   and
   phone are a good value, you will probably lock in the customer.  On the
   telco side of the house, we try to make the system pay for itself over
   a
   20 year amortization.  If you live in an area served by frontier
   telephone, might as well go borrow the money and build it because  they
   never will.
- Original Message -
From: Travis Johnson
To: WISPA General List
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future
  
  
A couple quick things:
  
(1) You don't necessarily have them for life. People can change to
   DISH
   and a wireless provider and do VoIP over that. Especially if they can
   save
   $5/month, a lot of people will change. DISH is $35/month for decent
   programming. Wireless is another $40/month and VoIP can be had for
   $20/month.
  
(2) It looks good with those numbers, but realistically you have costs
   way above just the install. On a $100/month customer how much gross
   profit
   do you actually make after buying bandwidth, transport, TV channels,
   VoIP
   service, etc. I really have no idea, so I am asking. Do you make $20
   gross? $1,500 / $20 = 75 months breakeven

Re: [WISPA] Future -SPECTRUM MARKET PLACE

2008-04-24 Thread CHUCK PROFITO
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/marketwire/0388456.htm 
OR  http://tinyurl.com/66rnd5 

The nation's largest online marketplace for licensed broadband wireless
spectrum went live today, enabling businesses, government agencies and
communications service providers to quickly and easily obtain licensed
high-capacity wireless spectrum in the United States. 28-31 GHz

Chuck Profito
209-988-7388
CV-ACCESS, INC
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Providing High Speed Broadband 
to Rural Central California





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Future -SPECTRUM MARKET PLACE

2008-04-24 Thread Jack Unger
Thanks for the link; here are some quick thoughts...

1. Buying (or leasing) licensed spectrum sounds good... if the spectrum 
and equipment costs are affordable.

2. Wouldn't it be nice to have quick and easy, affordable access to 
spectrum that could be used for point-to-multipoint in a rural 
environment - like at 400 or 700 MHz?

3. This 28-31 GHz spectrum will probably only be useful for short-range 
work where there are absolutely no obstructions end-to-end (like in big 
city centers, etc.)

jack


CHUCK PROFITO wrote:
 http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/marketwire/0388456.htm 
 OR  http://tinyurl.com/66rnd5 

 The nation's largest online marketplace for licensed broadband wireless
 spectrum went live today, enabling businesses, government agencies and
 communications service providers to quickly and easily obtain licensed
 high-capacity wireless spectrum in the United States. 28-31 GHz

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Providing High Speed Broadband 
 to Rural Central California




 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



   

-- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the Cisco Press Book - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
Vendor-Neutral Wireless Training-Design-Troubleshooting-Consulting
FCC License # PG-12-25133
Phone 818-227-4220   Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]






WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Future -SPECTRUM MARKET PLACE

2008-04-24 Thread George
  This 28-31 GHz spectrum will probably only be useful for short-range
 work where there are absolutely no obstructions end-to-end (like in big 
 city centers, etc.)
 
 jack

What is the distance limitations and cost for PtP gear to do 28-31 GHz?



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Future -SPECTRUM MARKET PLACE

2008-04-24 Thread Stephen Patrick
Very interesting topic -
In the UK similar bands (28, 32, 40) just got allocated on a
regional/national basis, and some of the prices paid were very modest.
Google OFCOM and have a look if interested.
One of the national spectrum winners informally offered us access to their
spectrum on a per link basis i.e. reselling use of it to integrators or
end users.  Interesting model.

It is P2P LOS-only in those bands generally.  P2MP is technically possible
but I don't know of any equipment out there - like the old LMDS gear.
You can get complete P2P links for well under US$10k, quite a bit less than
that actually, and in high volume expect a good reduction from that.  I will
probably get into trouble here for saying that, as our own products cover
those bands. /advertising

Distance-wise it's all down to rain fade, availability requirements (four or
five nines required?) antenna sizes, EIRP, modulation/sensitivity and smart
features like adaptive modulation and ATPC to keep the links up in fade
conditions - and of course any restrictions the regulator puts on you.
A few miles is realistic - depends on location.  I can run a link calc if
anyone's interested.  For example I ran one at 26GHz, 155Mbps throughput,
60cm antennas, Rain Zone H (32mmhr) and at 8km (about 5 miles) it looks like
99.993%.  Allow for adaptive modulation (drops the throughput during rain
storms) and that comes quite a bit higher. 

I recall the CLECs (Winstar, etc) were the ones that ran into trouble
building out large microwave networks in similar bands, but IMHO a lot of
that was faulty business plan and network design - unable to deliver what
was promised, either at all or profitably.
Licensed equipment has improved hugely in throughput, spectral efficiency,
uptime and of course in price since then - a sea-change in the microwave
market.
There are also a new breed of all-outdoor radios coming up which further
reduce costs (equipment + installation costs) which are ideal for WISPs in
particular.

Am sure plenty of other readers will have some very interesting comments or
experiences - and possibly corrections too -

Regards

Stephen Patrick 
== 
Cablefree Solutions Ltd
www.cablefreesolutions.com 
== 



-Original Message-
From: Jack Unger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 24 April 2008 17:22
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future -SPECTRUM MARKET PLACE

Thanks for the link; here are some quick thoughts...

1. Buying (or leasing) licensed spectrum sounds good... if the spectrum and
equipment costs are affordable.

2. Wouldn't it be nice to have quick and easy, affordable access to
spectrum that could be used for point-to-multipoint in a rural environment -
like at 400 or 700 MHz?

3. This 28-31 GHz spectrum will probably only be useful for short-range work
where there are absolutely no obstructions end-to-end (like in big city
centers, etc.)

jack


CHUCK PROFITO wrote:
 http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/marketwire/0388456.htm
 OR  http://tinyurl.com/66rnd5

 The nation's largest online marketplace for licensed broadband 
 wireless spectrum went live today, enabling businesses, government 
 agencies and communications service providers to quickly and easily 
 obtain licensed high-capacity wireless spectrum in the United States. 
 28-31 GHz

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California







 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/



  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



   

-- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the Cisco Press Book - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
Vendor-Neutral Wireless Training-Design-Troubleshooting-Consulting
FCC License # PG-12-25133
Phone 818-227-4220   Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]







WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1394 - Release Date: 23/04/2008
19:16





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-23 Thread Jeff Broadwick
How could anyone ever get mad at you Marlon?!?!  :-)

Jeff
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 12:44 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

I just got back a customer that left us for sat service.  Took less than a
year for him to come back (and he left because he got mad at me, not because
of the service so you know the service had to really suck).
marlon

- Original Message -
From: Tom Warfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future



 You forgot satellite which is picking up steam.


 Honestly.

 Now is the time to sell! (hence one of the reasons I sold last month.)

 Unless your servicing very rural area with almost no population.




 -Original Message-
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:44 PM
 To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Future

 What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years?

 ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of town?)
 Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of town?)
 Cable will be using DOCSIS 3
 3G will gain more steam
 WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market
 700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the big guys


 My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what other's opinions are.

 My thought is that the big guys mentioned above will continue to avoid the

 niche that we currently serve and we'll be able to provide better services

 with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz, possibly TV 
 white spaces) and WiMAX.


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com






 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/





 [The entire original message is not included]





 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/




 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-23 Thread Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net
And what do you use to control that bandwidth? 

Chuck McCown wrote:
 We sell 10.2 Mbps burst service.  And most of them actually get that speed.
 If they start streaming or downloading a large file, we throttle them down. 
 Most are at 768.
 When the stream or download stops, they go back to wide open throttle. 
 Customers love it.

 - Original Message - 
 From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 2:41 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


   
 Chuck,

 What speeds do you sell to your end customers at 128:1 oversub?

 (I am assuming that you never really go this high!) :)

 ryan

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:33 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 That is pretty much what we do on Motorola Canopy.
 20 MHz channels.
 128:1 (or less) over subscription
 10 Mbps
 First AP and BH would be in the $5K range
 Second AP would be in the $2K range.  (depending on antennas etc).

 We are waiting to see what the OFDM product will do.  Smaller channels.
 More speed.
 (more money too).

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:17 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 
 Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel?

 Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription on 
 say
   
 a
 10 meg client?

 What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)?

 What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)?


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message - 
 From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


   
 Chuck,

 Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products.

 Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz
 channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also, there
 are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the
 licenseholders are.



 -

 Jeff

 On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote:

 
 Patrick,
 Excellent point on channel sizes!
 So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? ,
 5.X, 3.6
 (we are in a big exclusion zone.)
 I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers.
 Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes?
 Would it use the same channel sizes?
 Would it help with range and capacity?
 Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent?
 In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls?


 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
 great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly.
 Meanwhile, Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
 was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the
 expectations. I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
 greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message -
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


   
 I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly
 
 on
   
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-23 Thread Gino Villarini
The Canopy SM does this ...

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:44 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

And what do you use to control that bandwidth? 

Chuck McCown wrote:
 We sell 10.2 Mbps burst service.  And most of them actually get that
speed.
 If they start streaming or downloading a large file, we throttle them
down. 
 Most are at 768.
 When the stream or download stops, they go back to wide open throttle.

 Customers love it.

 - Original Message - 
 From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 2:41 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


   
 Chuck,

 What speeds do you sell to your end customers at 128:1 oversub?

 (I am assuming that you never really go this high!) :)

 ryan

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:33 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 That is pretty much what we do on Motorola Canopy.
 20 MHz channels.
 128:1 (or less) over subscription
 10 Mbps
 First AP and BH would be in the $5K range
 Second AP would be in the $2K range.  (depending on antennas etc).

 We are waiting to see what the OFDM product will do.  Smaller
channels.
 More speed.
 (more money too).

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:17 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 
 Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel?

 Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription
on 
 say
   
 a
 10 meg client?

 What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)?

 What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)?


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message - 
 From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


   
 Chuck,

 Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products.

 Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz
 channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also,
there
 are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the
 licenseholders are.



 -

 Jeff

 On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote:

 
 Patrick,
 Excellent point on channel sizes!
 So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? ,
 5.X, 3.6
 (we are in a big exclusion zone.)
 I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers.
 Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes?
 Would it use the same channel sizes?
 Would it help with range and capacity?
 Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent?
 In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls?


 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
 great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit
of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly.
 Meanwhile, Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion
exec)
 was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his
public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the
 expectations. I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
 greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message -
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-23 Thread Chuck McCown
FTTH ONT pricing (the unit on the house) keeps falling.  They are about $400 
now.
You can put in fiber for $1-2/foot (if you have a clear ROW).
The CO end is about $50K/terminal that is capable of serving thousands.
I don't know what the pro-rata single fiber COT card is, but I think they 
are are around $2K/port with each port serving 32 on a PON.
So, if the plowing is good and the ROWs are clear and free, you can probably 
get a customer installed (in a fairly dense surburban area) for less than 
$1500 each.
Triple play for $100/month.  And you have them for life.
Of course this assumes you build it yourself and you already have a NOC and 
you already have access to and IPTV stream etc.
But it is doable.  There is a business case for building such a system. 
Main thing is to do it before the ILEC/RBOC does it.

- Original Message - 
From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Well Mike, the way I see it is that the sky has been falling my entire 
 time
 as an ISP (over a decade now).

 WiMax is still a joke in the market place.

 3G is too slow and too expensive.

 700 is not deployed in any level that matters and doesn't look like it 
 will
 be any time soon.

 Cable is in trouble because they are dying under the load of the high end
 users they they keep getting.  They need all of the capacity they can come
 up with for HDTV channels but broadband is taking up too much space on the
 coax.  They also JUST put in their networks.  The big companies aren't
 structured to reinvest in new hardware every few years.  I'd say that they
 will continue to grow and continue to piss off their base.  I'm not 
 worried
 about cable.

 As for ATT and Verizon?  People already hate the service and prices they
 have, so far I can sell against them.

 Fiber is cool, I have FTTH customers.  But man is it expensive!  There's
 just no way to ever make the investment back at today's pricing levels.
 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:44 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Future


 What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years?

 ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of town?)
 Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of town?)
 Cable will be using DOCSIS 3
 3G will gain more steam
 WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market
 700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the big guys


 My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what other's opinions are.

 My thought is that the big guys mentioned above will continue to avoid 
 the
 niche that we currently serve and we'll be able to provide better 
 services
 with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz, possibly TV
 white spaces) and WiMAX.


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-23 Thread Travis Johnson




A couple quick things:

(1) You don't necessarily have them for life. People can change to DISH
and a wireless provider and do VoIP over that. Especially if they can
save $5/month, a lot of people will change. DISH is $35/month for
decent programming. Wireless is another $40/month and VoIP can be had
for $20/month. 

(2) It looks good with those numbers, but realistically you have costs
way above just the install. On a $100/month customer how much gross
profit do you actually make after buying bandwidth, transport, TV
channels, VoIP service, etc. I really have no idea, so I am asking. Do
you make $20 gross? $1,500 / $20 = 75 months breakeven and this doesn't
include support costs, etc.

Travis
Microserv

Chuck McCown wrote:

  FTTH ONT pricing (the unit on the house) keeps falling.  They are about $400 
now.
You can put in fiber for $1-2/foot (if you have a clear ROW).
The CO end is about $50K/terminal that is capable of serving thousands.
I don't know what the pro-rata single fiber COT card is, but I think they 
are are around $2K/port with each port serving 32 on a PON.
So, if the plowing is good and the ROWs are clear and free, you can probably 
get a customer installed (in a fairly dense surburban area) for less than 
$1500 each.
Triple play for $100/month.  And you have them for life.
Of course this assumes you build it yourself and you already have a NOC and 
you already have access to and IPTV stream etc.
But it is doable.  There is a business case for building such a system. 
Main thing is to do it before the ILEC/RBOC does it.

- Original Message - 
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


  
  
Well Mike, the way I see it is that the sky has been falling my entire 
time
as an ISP (over a decade now).

WiMax is still a joke in the market place.

3G is too slow and too expensive.

700 is not deployed in any level that matters and doesn't look like it 
will
be any time soon.

Cable is in trouble because they are dying under the load of the high end
users they they keep getting.  They need all of the capacity they can come
up with for HDTV channels but broadband is taking up too much space on the
coax.  They also JUST put in their networks.  The big companies aren't
structured to reinvest in new hardware every few years.  I'd say that they
will continue to grow and continue to piss off their base.  I'm not 
worried
about cable.

As for ATT and Verizon?  People already hate the service and prices they
have, so far I can sell against them.

Fiber is cool, I have FTTH customers.  But man is it expensive!  There's
just no way to ever make the investment back at today's pricing levels.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "WISPA List" wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:44 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Future




  What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years?

ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of town?)
Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of town?)
Cable will be using DOCSIS 3
3G will gain more steam
WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market
700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the big guys


My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what other's opinions are.

My thought is that the big guys mentioned above will continue to avoid 
the
niche that we currently serve and we'll be able to provide better 
services
with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz, possibly TV
white spaces) and WiMAX.


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
  




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


  
  



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: h

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-23 Thread Joe Miller
Chuck,

I'm currently working a proposal for FTTH for a 654
unit developement. I would like to know where you are
getting these numbers on the equipment. I had one
company give me a price of $3,500.00 per unit, and
another for $2,800.00 per unit. Please let us know
where we can find a reasonable company on equipment
prices. I've searched for weeks, put I cannot pin
anyone company down on line item prices. If this
developement works, then I will have 3 more to do at
about 2,000 units per developement.

DSLbyAir
www.dslbyair.com
--- Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 FTTH ONT pricing (the unit on the house) keeps
 falling.  They are about $400 
 now.
 You can put in fiber for $1-2/foot (if you have a
 clear ROW).
 The CO end is about $50K/terminal that is capable of
 serving thousands.
 I don't know what the pro-rata single fiber COT card
 is, but I think they 
 are are around $2K/port with each port serving 32 on
 a PON.
 So, if the plowing is good and the ROWs are clear
 and free, you can probably 
 get a customer installed (in a fairly dense
 surburban area) for less than 
 $1500 each.
 Triple play for $100/month.  And you have them for
 life.
 Of course this assumes you build it yourself and you
 already have a NOC and 
 you already have access to and IPTV stream etc.
 But it is doable.  There is a business case for
 building such a system. 
 Main thing is to do it before the ILEC/RBOC does it.
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:39 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future
 
 
  Well Mike, the way I see it is that the sky has
 been falling my entire 
  time
  as an ISP (over a decade now).
 
  WiMax is still a joke in the market place.
 
  3G is too slow and too expensive.
 
  700 is not deployed in any level that matters and
 doesn't look like it 
  will
  be any time soon.
 
  Cable is in trouble because they are dying under
 the load of the high end
  users they they keep getting.  They need all of
 the capacity they can come
  up with for HDTV channels but broadband is taking
 up too much space on the
  coax.  They also JUST put in their networks.  The
 big companies aren't
  structured to reinvest in new hardware every few
 years.  I'd say that they
  will continue to grow and continue to piss off
 their base.  I'm not 
  worried
  about cable.
 
  As for ATT and Verizon?  People already hate the
 service and prices they
  have, so far I can sell against them.
 
  Fiber is cool, I have FTTH customers.  But man is
 it expensive!  There's
  just no way to ever make the investment back at
 today's pricing levels.
  marlon
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:44 PM
  Subject: [WISPA] Future
 
 
  What do you see as the future of our industry
 over the next 5 years?
 
  ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available
 outside of town?)
  Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available
 outside of town?)
  Cable will be using DOCSIS 3
  3G will gain more steam
  WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the
 market
  700 MHz will be in use possibly for data
 communications by the big guys
 
 
  My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what
 other's opinions are.
 
  My thought is that the big guys mentioned above
 will continue to avoid 
  the
  niche that we currently serve and we'll be able
 to provide better 
  services
  with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz,
 3.6 GHz, possibly TV
  white spaces) and WiMAX.
 
 
  --
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
 
 


  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 


 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives:
 http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
 


  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 


 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives:
 http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
  
 
 
 


 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-23 Thread Chuck McCown
Highly variable.  TV content is costly.  Everyone has different costs for 
transport.  But if you are delivering symmetric 10-100 mbps and the TV and 
phone are a good value, you will probably lock in the customer.  On the telco 
side of the house, we try to make the system pay for itself over a 20 year 
amortization.  If you live in an area served by frontier telephone, might as 
well go borrow the money and build it because  they never will.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Travis Johnson 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 8:34 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


  A couple quick things:

  (1) You don't necessarily have them for life. People can change to DISH and a 
wireless provider and do VoIP over that. Especially if they can save $5/month, 
a lot of people will change. DISH is $35/month for decent programming. Wireless 
is another $40/month and VoIP can be had for $20/month. 

  (2) It looks good with those numbers, but realistically you have costs way 
above just the install. On a $100/month customer how much gross profit do you 
actually make after buying bandwidth, transport, TV channels, VoIP service, 
etc. I really have no idea, so I am asking. Do you make $20 gross? $1,500 / $20 
= 75 months breakeven and this doesn't include support costs, etc.

  Travis
  Microserv

  Chuck McCown wrote: 
FTTH ONT pricing (the unit on the house) keeps falling.  They are about $400 
now.
You can put in fiber for $1-2/foot (if you have a clear ROW).
The CO end is about $50K/terminal that is capable of serving thousands.
I don't know what the pro-rata single fiber COT card is, but I think they 
are are around $2K/port with each port serving 32 on a PON.
So, if the plowing is good and the ROWs are clear and free, you can probably 
get a customer installed (in a fairly dense surburban area) for less than 
$1500 each.
Triple play for $100/month.  And you have them for life.
Of course this assumes you build it yourself and you already have a NOC and 
you already have access to and IPTV stream etc.
But it is doable.  There is a business case for building such a system. 
Main thing is to do it before the ILEC/RBOC does it.

- Original Message - 
From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


  Well Mike, the way I see it is that the sky has been falling my entire 
time
as an ISP (over a decade now).

WiMax is still a joke in the market place.

3G is too slow and too expensive.

700 is not deployed in any level that matters and doesn't look like it 
will
be any time soon.

Cable is in trouble because they are dying under the load of the high end
users they they keep getting.  They need all of the capacity they can come
up with for HDTV channels but broadband is taking up too much space on the
coax.  They also JUST put in their networks.  The big companies aren't
structured to reinvest in new hardware every few years.  I'd say that they
will continue to grow and continue to piss off their base.  I'm not 
worried
about cable.

As for ATT and Verizon?  People already hate the service and prices they
have, so far I can sell against them.

Fiber is cool, I have FTTH customers.  But man is it expensive!  There's
just no way to ever make the investment back at today's pricing levels.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:44 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Future


What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years?

ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of town?)
Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of town?)
Cable will be using DOCSIS 3
3G will gain more steam
WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market
700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the big guys


My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what other's opinions are.

My thought is that the big guys mentioned above will continue to avoid 
the
niche that we currently serve and we'll be able to provide better 
services
with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz, possibly TV
white spaces) and WiMAX.


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
  

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-23 Thread Chuck McCown
Panaway.
GPON
- Original Message - 
From: Joe Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Chuck,

 I'm currently working a proposal for FTTH for a 654
 unit developement. I would like to know where you are
 getting these numbers on the equipment. I had one
 company give me a price of $3,500.00 per unit, and
 another for $2,800.00 per unit. Please let us know
 where we can find a reasonable company on equipment
 prices. I've searched for weeks, put I cannot pin
 anyone company down on line item prices. If this
 developement works, then I will have 3 more to do at
 about 2,000 units per developement.

 DSLbyAir
 www.dslbyair.com
 --- Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 FTTH ONT pricing (the unit on the house) keeps
 falling.  They are about $400
 now.
 You can put in fiber for $1-2/foot (if you have a
 clear ROW).
 The CO end is about $50K/terminal that is capable of
 serving thousands.
 I don't know what the pro-rata single fiber COT card
 is, but I think they
 are are around $2K/port with each port serving 32 on
 a PON.
 So, if the plowing is good and the ROWs are clear
 and free, you can probably
 get a customer installed (in a fairly dense
 surburban area) for less than
 $1500 each.
 Triple play for $100/month.  And you have them for
 life.
 Of course this assumes you build it yourself and you
 already have a NOC and
 you already have access to and IPTV stream etc.
 But it is doable.  There is a business case for
 building such a system.
 Main thing is to do it before the ILEC/RBOC does it.

 - Original Message - 
 From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:39 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


  Well Mike, the way I see it is that the sky has
 been falling my entire
  time
  as an ISP (over a decade now).
 
  WiMax is still a joke in the market place.
 
  3G is too slow and too expensive.
 
  700 is not deployed in any level that matters and
 doesn't look like it
  will
  be any time soon.
 
  Cable is in trouble because they are dying under
 the load of the high end
  users they they keep getting.  They need all of
 the capacity they can come
  up with for HDTV channels but broadband is taking
 up too much space on the
  coax.  They also JUST put in their networks.  The
 big companies aren't
  structured to reinvest in new hardware every few
 years.  I'd say that they
  will continue to grow and continue to piss off
 their base.  I'm not
  worried
  about cable.
 
  As for ATT and Verizon?  People already hate the
 service and prices they
  have, so far I can sell against them.
 
  Fiber is cool, I have FTTH customers.  But man is
 it expensive!  There's
  just no way to ever make the investment back at
 today's pricing levels.
  marlon
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:44 PM
  Subject: [WISPA] Future
 
 
  What do you see as the future of our industry
 over the next 5 years?
 
  ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available
 outside of town?)
  Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available
 outside of town?)
  Cable will be using DOCSIS 3
  3G will gain more steam
  WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the
 market
  700 MHz will be in use possibly for data
 communications by the big guys
 
 
  My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what
 other's opinions are.
 
  My thought is that the big guys mentioned above
 will continue to avoid
  the
  niche that we currently serve and we'll be able
 to provide better
  services
  with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz,
 3.6 GHz, possibly TV
  white spaces) and WiMAX.
 
 
  --
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
 
 

 
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives:
 http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
 

 
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives:
 http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 




 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-23 Thread Mike Hammett
The fiber would be good for 20 years and is the most costly part, but the 
other pieces wouldn't be good for 20 years...  I'd say only 5 years on 
active components.  They may technically work, but they'd be so outdated by 
then you wouldn't want them anymore.


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Highly variable.  TV content is costly.  Everyone has different costs for 
 transport.  But if you are delivering symmetric 10-100 mbps and the TV and 
 phone are a good value, you will probably lock in the customer.  On the 
 telco side of the house, we try to make the system pay for itself over a 
 20 year amortization.  If you live in an area served by frontier 
 telephone, might as well go borrow the money and build it because  they 
 never will.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Travis Johnson
  To: WISPA General List
  Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 8:34 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


  A couple quick things:

  (1) You don't necessarily have them for life. People can change to DISH 
 and a wireless provider and do VoIP over that. Especially if they can save 
 $5/month, a lot of people will change. DISH is $35/month for decent 
 programming. Wireless is another $40/month and VoIP can be had for 
 $20/month.

  (2) It looks good with those numbers, but realistically you have costs 
 way above just the install. On a $100/month customer how much gross profit 
 do you actually make after buying bandwidth, transport, TV channels, VoIP 
 service, etc. I really have no idea, so I am asking. Do you make $20 
 gross? $1,500 / $20 = 75 months breakeven and this doesn't include support 
 costs, etc.

  Travis
  Microserv

  Chuck McCown wrote:
 FTTH ONT pricing (the unit on the house) keeps falling.  They are about 
 $400
 now.
 You can put in fiber for $1-2/foot (if you have a clear ROW).
 The CO end is about $50K/terminal that is capable of serving thousands.
 I don't know what the pro-rata single fiber COT card is, but I think they
 are are around $2K/port with each port serving 32 on a PON.
 So, if the plowing is good and the ROWs are clear and free, you can 
 probably
 get a customer installed (in a fairly dense surburban area) for less than
 $1500 each.
 Triple play for $100/month.  And you have them for life.
 Of course this assumes you build it yourself and you already have a NOC 
 and
 you already have access to and IPTV stream etc.
 But it is doable.  There is a business case for building such a system.
 Main thing is to do it before the ILEC/RBOC does it.

 - Original Message - 
 From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:39 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


  Well Mike, the way I see it is that the sky has been falling my entire
 time
 as an ISP (over a decade now).

 WiMax is still a joke in the market place.

 3G is too slow and too expensive.

 700 is not deployed in any level that matters and doesn't look like it
 will
 be any time soon.

 Cable is in trouble because they are dying under the load of the high end
 users they they keep getting.  They need all of the capacity they can come
 up with for HDTV channels but broadband is taking up too much space on the
 coax.  They also JUST put in their networks.  The big companies aren't
 structured to reinvest in new hardware every few years.  I'd say that they
 will continue to grow and continue to piss off their base.  I'm not
 worried
 about cable.

 As for ATT and Verizon?  People already hate the service and prices they
 have, so far I can sell against them.

 Fiber is cool, I have FTTH customers.  But man is it expensive!  There's
 just no way to ever make the investment back at today's pricing levels.
 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:44 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Future


What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years?

 ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of town?)
 Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of town?)
 Cable will be using DOCSIS 3
 3G will gain more steam
 WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market
 700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the big guys


 My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what other's opinions are.

 My thought is that the big guys mentioned above will continue to avoid
 the
 niche that we currently serve and we'll be able to provide better
 services
 with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz, possibly TV
 white spaces) and WiMAX.


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-23 Thread Chuck McCown
I have ONTs that are 5 years old now out in the field and are doing fine.
I have class 5 central office switchs deployed that are closer to 10 years 
old that are still current technology.
What is going to get out of date with a GPON ONT?  2.4 Gbps is plenty of 
bandwidth, don't you think?

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 The fiber would be good for 20 years and is the most costly part, but the
 other pieces wouldn't be good for 20 years...  I'd say only 5 years on
 active components.  They may technically work, but they'd be so outdated 
 by
 then you wouldn't want them anymore.


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message - 
 From: Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:46 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Highly variable.  TV content is costly.  Everyone has different costs for
 transport.  But if you are delivering symmetric 10-100 mbps and the TV 
 and
 phone are a good value, you will probably lock in the customer.  On the
 telco side of the house, we try to make the system pay for itself over a
 20 year amortization.  If you live in an area served by frontier
 telephone, might as well go borrow the money and build it because  they
 never will.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Travis Johnson
  To: WISPA General List
  Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 8:34 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


  A couple quick things:

  (1) You don't necessarily have them for life. People can change to DISH
 and a wireless provider and do VoIP over that. Especially if they can 
 save
 $5/month, a lot of people will change. DISH is $35/month for decent
 programming. Wireless is another $40/month and VoIP can be had for
 $20/month.

  (2) It looks good with those numbers, but realistically you have costs
 way above just the install. On a $100/month customer how much gross 
 profit
 do you actually make after buying bandwidth, transport, TV channels, VoIP
 service, etc. I really have no idea, so I am asking. Do you make $20
 gross? $1,500 / $20 = 75 months breakeven and this doesn't include 
 support
 costs, etc.

  Travis
  Microserv

  Chuck McCown wrote:
 FTTH ONT pricing (the unit on the house) keeps falling.  They are about
 $400
 now.
 You can put in fiber for $1-2/foot (if you have a clear ROW).
 The CO end is about $50K/terminal that is capable of serving thousands.
 I don't know what the pro-rata single fiber COT card is, but I think they
 are are around $2K/port with each port serving 32 on a PON.
 So, if the plowing is good and the ROWs are clear and free, you can
 probably
 get a customer installed (in a fairly dense surburban area) for less than
 $1500 each.
 Triple play for $100/month.  And you have them for life.
 Of course this assumes you build it yourself and you already have a NOC
 and
 you already have access to and IPTV stream etc.
 But it is doable.  There is a business case for building such a system.
 Main thing is to do it before the ILEC/RBOC does it.

 - Original Message - 
 From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:39 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


  Well Mike, the way I see it is that the sky has been falling my entire
 time
 as an ISP (over a decade now).

 WiMax is still a joke in the market place.

 3G is too slow and too expensive.

 700 is not deployed in any level that matters and doesn't look like it
 will
 be any time soon.

 Cable is in trouble because they are dying under the load of the high end
 users they they keep getting.  They need all of the capacity they can 
 come
 up with for HDTV channels but broadband is taking up too much space on 
 the
 coax.  They also JUST put in their networks.  The big companies aren't
 structured to reinvest in new hardware every few years.  I'd say that 
 they
 will continue to grow and continue to piss off their base.  I'm not
 worried
 about cable.

 As for ATT and Verizon?  People already hate the service and prices they
 have, so far I can sell against them.

 Fiber is cool, I have FTTH customers.  But man is it expensive!  There's
 just no way to ever make the investment back at today's pricing levels.
 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:44 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Future


What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years?

 ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of town?)
 Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of town?)
 Cable will be using DOCSIS 3
 3G will gain more steam
 WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market
 700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the big guys

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-23 Thread Mike Hammett
We think so now, but is something that came out 5 years ago still good 
enough?  Maybe, though I'm leaning towards no.  10 years?  No way.

Now, yes, a class 5 would be fine because phone technology doesn't change 
nearly as much as data connectivity, especially with the Web 2.0 boom we're 
on the begging leg of.


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


I have ONTs that are 5 years old now out in the field and are doing fine.
 I have class 5 central office switchs deployed that are closer to 10 years
 old that are still current technology.
 What is going to get out of date with a GPON ONT?  2.4 Gbps is plenty of
 bandwidth, don't you think?

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:00 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 The fiber would be good for 20 years and is the most costly part, but the
 other pieces wouldn't be good for 20 years...  I'd say only 5 years on
 active components.  They may technically work, but they'd be so outdated
 by
 then you wouldn't want them anymore.


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message - 
 From: Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:46 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Highly variable.  TV content is costly.  Everyone has different costs 
 for
 transport.  But if you are delivering symmetric 10-100 mbps and the TV
 and
 phone are a good value, you will probably lock in the customer.  On the
 telco side of the house, we try to make the system pay for itself over a
 20 year amortization.  If you live in an area served by frontier
 telephone, might as well go borrow the money and build it because  they
 never will.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Travis Johnson
  To: WISPA General List
  Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 8:34 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


  A couple quick things:

  (1) You don't necessarily have them for life. People can change to DISH
 and a wireless provider and do VoIP over that. Especially if they can
 save
 $5/month, a lot of people will change. DISH is $35/month for decent
 programming. Wireless is another $40/month and VoIP can be had for
 $20/month.

  (2) It looks good with those numbers, but realistically you have costs
 way above just the install. On a $100/month customer how much gross
 profit
 do you actually make after buying bandwidth, transport, TV channels, 
 VoIP
 service, etc. I really have no idea, so I am asking. Do you make $20
 gross? $1,500 / $20 = 75 months breakeven and this doesn't include
 support
 costs, etc.

  Travis
  Microserv

  Chuck McCown wrote:
 FTTH ONT pricing (the unit on the house) keeps falling.  They are about
 $400
 now.
 You can put in fiber for $1-2/foot (if you have a clear ROW).
 The CO end is about $50K/terminal that is capable of serving thousands.
 I don't know what the pro-rata single fiber COT card is, but I think 
 they
 are are around $2K/port with each port serving 32 on a PON.
 So, if the plowing is good and the ROWs are clear and free, you can
 probably
 get a customer installed (in a fairly dense surburban area) for less 
 than
 $1500 each.
 Triple play for $100/month.  And you have them for life.
 Of course this assumes you build it yourself and you already have a NOC
 and
 you already have access to and IPTV stream etc.
 But it is doable.  There is a business case for building such a system.
 Main thing is to do it before the ILEC/RBOC does it.

 - Original Message - 
 From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:39 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


  Well Mike, the way I see it is that the sky has been falling my entire
 time
 as an ISP (over a decade now).

 WiMax is still a joke in the market place.

 3G is too slow and too expensive.

 700 is not deployed in any level that matters and doesn't look like it
 will
 be any time soon.

 Cable is in trouble because they are dying under the load of the high 
 end
 users they they keep getting.  They need all of the capacity they can
 come
 up with for HDTV channels but broadband is taking up too much space on
 the
 coax.  They also JUST put in their networks.  The big companies aren't
 structured to reinvest in new hardware every few years.  I'd say that
 they
 will continue to grow and continue to piss off their base.  I'm not
 worried
 about cable.

 As for ATT and Verizon?  People already hate the service and prices 
 they
 have, so far I can sell against them.

 Fiber is cool, I have FTTH customers.  But man is it expensive!  There's
 just no way to ever make the investment back at today's

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-23 Thread Chuck McCown
OK, let me put it this way; how old is the Ethernet technology/protocol you 
are using?
How old is the 802 Ethernet spec?
GPON G.984 compliant equipment is the same as IEEE 802 complaint equipment.
A spec is a spec.
The G.984 spec was ratified 5 years ago.
How old is g.707 SONET? 15 years old?  OC-3 is still the workhorse.
Are you worrying about the cisco switch you just put in being obsolete in 5 
or 10 years due to a change in the Ethernet protocol?
Phone technology IS data technology.  Our network is fiber, that hauls 
phone, data, video, anything we can put on it.
Layer 4-8 changes but layers 1,23 go on forever.
A GPON FTTH system does not venture into anything above layer 3.  SONET is 
as likely to go away before GPON.
Tin whiskers from RoHS,  majority charge carrier migration of semiconductors 
and electrolytic capacitor dehydration is going to kill an ONT before any 
change of technology or protocol will.

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 We think so now, but is something that came out 5 years ago still good
 enough?  Maybe, though I'm leaning towards no.  10 years?  No way.

 Now, yes, a class 5 would be fine because phone technology doesn't change
 nearly as much as data connectivity, especially with the Web 2.0 boom 
 we're
 on the begging leg of.


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message - 
 From: Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:03 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


I have ONTs that are 5 years old now out in the field and are doing fine.
 I have class 5 central office switchs deployed that are closer to 10 
 years
 old that are still current technology.
 What is going to get out of date with a GPON ONT?  2.4 Gbps is plenty of
 bandwidth, don't you think?

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:00 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 The fiber would be good for 20 years and is the most costly part, but 
 the
 other pieces wouldn't be good for 20 years...  I'd say only 5 years on
 active components.  They may technically work, but they'd be so outdated
 by
 then you wouldn't want them anymore.


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message - 
 From: Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:46 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Highly variable.  TV content is costly.  Everyone has different costs
 for
 transport.  But if you are delivering symmetric 10-100 mbps and the TV
 and
 phone are a good value, you will probably lock in the customer.  On the
 telco side of the house, we try to make the system pay for itself over 
 a
 20 year amortization.  If you live in an area served by frontier
 telephone, might as well go borrow the money and build it because  they
 never will.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Travis Johnson
  To: WISPA General List
  Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 8:34 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


  A couple quick things:

  (1) You don't necessarily have them for life. People can change to 
 DISH
 and a wireless provider and do VoIP over that. Especially if they can
 save
 $5/month, a lot of people will change. DISH is $35/month for decent
 programming. Wireless is another $40/month and VoIP can be had for
 $20/month.

  (2) It looks good with those numbers, but realistically you have costs
 way above just the install. On a $100/month customer how much gross
 profit
 do you actually make after buying bandwidth, transport, TV channels,
 VoIP
 service, etc. I really have no idea, so I am asking. Do you make $20
 gross? $1,500 / $20 = 75 months breakeven and this doesn't include
 support
 costs, etc.

  Travis
  Microserv

  Chuck McCown wrote:
 FTTH ONT pricing (the unit on the house) keeps falling.  They are about
 $400
 now.
 You can put in fiber for $1-2/foot (if you have a clear ROW).
 The CO end is about $50K/terminal that is capable of serving thousands.
 I don't know what the pro-rata single fiber COT card is, but I think
 they
 are are around $2K/port with each port serving 32 on a PON.
 So, if the plowing is good and the ROWs are clear and free, you can
 probably
 get a customer installed (in a fairly dense surburban area) for less
 than
 $1500 each.
 Triple play for $100/month.  And you have them for life.
 Of course this assumes you build it yourself and you already have a NOC
 and
 you already have access to and IPTV stream etc.
 But it is doable.  There is a business case for building such a system.
 Main thing is to do it before the ILEC/RBOC does it.

 - Original Message - 
 From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-23 Thread Jeff Booher
comments inline.
On Apr 22, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

 Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel?

Not to my knowedge.


 Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription  
 on say a
 10 meg client?

Certainly.



 What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)?

Between 5-10k



 What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)?

Between 5-10k





 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message -
 From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Chuck,

 Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products.

 Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz
 channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also,  
 there
 are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the
 licenseholders are.



 -

 Jeff

 On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote:

 Patrick,
 Excellent point on channel sizes!
 So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? ,
 5.X, 3.6
 (we are in a big exclusion zone.)
 I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers.
 Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes?
 Would it use the same channel sizes?
 Would it help with range and capacity?
 Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent?
 In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls?


 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
 great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly.
 Meanwhile, Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
 was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the
 expectations. I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
 greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message -
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree  
 strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually  
 true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies  
 and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited
 to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
 never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
 go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value  
 leader
 for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more
 cell
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited  
 amounts
 of
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of
 the
 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less  
 gain
 than
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.   
 Also
 there
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing  
 TV

Re: [WISPA] Future - a brief explanation on diversity

2008-04-23 Thread Mike Hammett
Would I be correct, then, that the Alvarion solutions are the Mercedes of 
the WiMax world?

I know I've asked you before, but is 5 GHz on Alvarion's timeline for 802.16 
based devices?


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future - a brief explanation on diversity


 So what does all the below mean in practice? Well, a typical
 arrangement, at least for our customers, in the 2.5 GHz band is 3
 sectors of 4th order diversity. That means one chassis with 3 blades.
 Each of the blades has 4 ports. All 4 ports are used. That translates
 into three AU IDUs and 12 ODUs and 6 antennas dual pole antennas that
 comprise the 3 sectors.

 Now you may be getting a sense of the complexity and why the question of
 How much for one AP to one sector? is not really applicable since one
 4-port AU can feed a complete cell with 4 90 degree sectors, but that
 same AU can scale to feed all its channels and capacity into a single
 sector.

 With each added level of diversity, the translation is better link
 budgets (less cells) with increased capacity. Fourth order diversity
 over no diversity adds 12 dB up and 6 dB down in terms of improved link
 budgets. This is not generally used to increase range so much as it is
 to increase link reliability at range.

 Our expectation is that our 3.65 GHz deployments will mostly have a
 standard configuration of 3 sectors with 2nd order diversity, except in
 a high urban deployment (such as a Tower Stream type model), which is
 more likely to have 4th order diversity to improve the range and number
 of self-install CPE that can be deployed.

 Patrick Leary
 AVP, Market Development
 Alvarion, Inc.
 o: 650.314.2628
 c: 760.580.0080
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:05 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future - a brief explanation on diversity

 Mike, et al,

 As Jeff implied about coverage (and costs), with WiMAX it is all about
 diversity so let me try to explain it a bit. It is not so simple as one
 AP or two. In WiMAX you have IDUs and ODUs. In our case, one IDU can
 serve many different configurations since it have 4 ports on the IDU and
 supports up to 4th order diversity. So here is what each level of
 diversity actually looks like in terms of configuration:

 Single channel, no diversity -
 This is the basic configuration and the one WISPs have always deployed.
 Each AU-IDU connects to one ODU serving a single sector with a
 directional antenna.

 AU/IDU ODUSector
 + +   +
 +   +   --+ O +---+   +
 + O ---/  +   +   \---+ O +
 + O + + O +   +   +
 + O + +   +   +
 + O + +
 +   +
 +


 Multiple channels per AU, no diversity - Can be like above or two or
 three or four channels. Example shows four channels -

 AU/IDU ODU 1 Sector antenna 1
 Ch.1-4
 + +   +
 +   +   --+ O +---+   +
 + O ---/  +   +   \---+ O +
 + O +-\   + O +   +   +
 + O +-\\  +   +   +
 + O +-\\\ +
 +   +  \\\--ODU 2sector antenna 2
 +   \\
 \\--ODU 3sector antenna 3
  \
   \--ODU 4sector antenna 4


 Second order diversity - One sector with space diversity. Two AU-ODU
 channels 1  2. Same frequency and transmit power. Same AU-IDU share a
 common MAC and modem.

 AU/IDU ODU 1  Antenna 1
 Ch.12Sector 1
 + +   +
 +   +   --- O +   +
 + O ---/  +   +   \ O +
 + O --\   + O +   +   +
 + O +  \  +   +   +
 + O +   \ +
 +   +\   both sectors cover same area
 + \ ))   so both function as part of one
 sector \ ODU 2  Antenna 2
\Sector 1
 \+   +
  - O +   +
  +   +   \ O +
  + O +   +   +
  +   +   +
  +

 Fourth order diversity - Single sector. Single AU-IDU with 4 ODUs. Space
 and polarization diversities using dual polarization slant antennas.
 Channels 1 and 2 form one pair, channels 3 and 4 form one pair. Same
 frequency and transmit power are set for all four ODUs. Common MAC and
 modem.

 AU/IDU ODU 1Antenna 1
 Ch.1-4Sector 1 (dual pole)
 + + +
 +   +   --- O   +   +
 + O ---/  +   +   \-- O +
 + O --\   + O +  /--- O +
 + O --\\  + /   +   +
 + O --\\\  /+   both dual pole
 antennas
 +   +  \\\--ODU 2/Sector 2  Antenna 2)  function together

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-23 Thread Mike Hammett
Who have you been getting information\pricing from on the Aperto and Airspan 
products?


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 comments inline.
 On Apr 22, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

 Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel?

 Not to my knowedge.


 Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription
 on say a
 10 meg client?

 Certainly.



 What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)?

 Between 5-10k



 What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)?

 Between 5-10k





 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message -
 From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Chuck,

 Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products.

 Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz
 channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also,
 there
 are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the
 licenseholders are.



 -

 Jeff

 On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote:

 Patrick,
 Excellent point on channel sizes!
 So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? ,
 5.X, 3.6
 (we are in a big exclusion zone.)
 I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers.
 Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes?
 Would it use the same channel sizes?
 Would it help with range and capacity?
 Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent?
 In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls?


 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
 great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly.
 Meanwhile, Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
 was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the
 expectations. I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
 greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message -
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree
 strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless-
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually
 true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies
 and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited
 to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
 never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
 go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value
 leader
 for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more
 cell
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-23 Thread Mike Hammett
Who have you been getting information\pricing from on the Aperto and Airspan 
products?


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 comments inline.
 On Apr 22, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

 Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel?

 Not to my knowedge.


 Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription
 on say a
 10 meg client?

 Certainly.



 What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)?

 Between 5-10k



 What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)?

 Between 5-10k





 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message -
 From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Chuck,

 Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products.

 Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz
 channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also,
 there
 are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the
 licenseholders are.



 -

 Jeff

 On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote:

 Patrick,
 Excellent point on channel sizes!
 So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? ,
 5.X, 3.6
 (we are in a big exclusion zone.)
 I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers.
 Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes?
 Would it use the same channel sizes?
 Would it help with range and capacity?
 Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent?
 In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls?


 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
 great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly.
 Meanwhile, Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
 was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the
 expectations. I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
 greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message -
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree
 strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless-
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually
 true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies
 and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited
 to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
 never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
 go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value
 leader
 for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more
 cell
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-23 Thread Clint Ricker
Travis,
Just a few notes on the economics of this (and, why I think single
play providers are in trouble):

The ARPU for triple play is generally considerably above $100 per
month, most figures put this around $160 per month on an industry
basis.  Typically, churn is considerably lower as well for triple play
customers.  A triple play customer generating $160 per month returns
almost $20,000 in 10 years.  But, given that triple play leverages the
same network, you have 3-4 times the revenue to subsidize a common
network buildout.  That is hard to compete with.

Yes, you do have churn and significantly less than 100%
penetration--people go to other offerings.  But, the economic
viability is still very solid.

-Clint







Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  A couple quick things:

  (1) You don't necessarily have them for life. People can change to DISH and
 a wireless provider and do VoIP over that. Especially if they can save
 $5/month, a lot of people will change. DISH is $35/month for decent
 programming. Wireless is another $40/month and VoIP can be had for
 $20/month.

  (2) It looks good with those numbers, but realistically you have costs way
 above just the install. On a $100/month customer how much gross profit do
 you actually make after buying bandwidth, transport, TV channels, VoIP
 service, etc. I really have no idea, so I am asking. Do you make $20 gross?
 $1,500 / $20 = 75 months breakeven and this doesn't include support costs,
 etc.

  Travis
  Microserv



  Chuck McCown wrote:
  FTTH ONT pricing (the unit on the house) keeps falling. They are about $400
 now.
 You can put in fiber for $1-2/foot (if you have a clear ROW).
 The CO end is about $50K/terminal that is capable of serving thousands.
 I don't know what the pro-rata single fiber COT card is, but I think they
 are are around $2K/port with each port serving 32 on a PON.
 So, if the plowing is good and the ROWs are clear and free, you can probably
 get a customer installed (in a fairly dense surburban area) for less than
 $1500 each.
 Triple play for $100/month. And you have them for life.
 Of course this assumes you build it yourself and you already have a NOC and
 you already have access to and IPTV stream etc.
 But it is doable. There is a business case for building such a system.
 Main thing is to do it before the ILEC/RBOC does it.

 - Original Message -
 From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:39 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future




  Well Mike, the way I see it is that the sky has been falling my entire
 time
 as an ISP (over a decade now).

 WiMax is still a joke in the market place.

 3G is too slow and too expensive.

 700 is not deployed in any level that matters and doesn't look like it
 will
 be any time soon.

 Cable is in trouble because they are dying under the load of the high end
 users they they keep getting. They need all of the capacity they can come
 up with for HDTV channels but broadband is taking up too much space on the
 coax. They also JUST put in their networks. The big companies aren't
 structured to reinvest in new hardware every few years. I'd say that they
 will continue to grow and continue to piss off their base. I'm not
 worried
 about cable.

 As for ATT and Verizon? People already hate the service and prices they
 have, so far I can sell against them.

 Fiber is cool, I have FTTH customers. But man is it expensive! There's
 just no way to ever make the investment back at today's pricing levels.
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:44 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Future




  What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years?

 ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of town?)
 Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of town?)
 Cable will be using DOCSIS 3
 3G will gain more steam
 WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market
 700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the big guys


 My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what other's opinions are.

 My thought is that the big guys mentioned above will continue to avoid
 the
 niche that we currently serve and we'll be able to provide better
 services
 with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz, possibly TV
 white spaces) and WiMAX.


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless

Re: [WISPA] Future - a brief explanation on diversity

2008-04-23 Thread Mike Hammett
How much does second order improve over none?

Cost differences between none, second, and fourth?


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future - a brief explanation on diversity


 So what does all the below mean in practice? Well, a typical
 arrangement, at least for our customers, in the 2.5 GHz band is 3
 sectors of 4th order diversity. That means one chassis with 3 blades.
 Each of the blades has 4 ports. All 4 ports are used. That translates
 into three AU IDUs and 12 ODUs and 6 antennas dual pole antennas that
 comprise the 3 sectors.

 Now you may be getting a sense of the complexity and why the question of
 How much for one AP to one sector? is not really applicable since one
 4-port AU can feed a complete cell with 4 90 degree sectors, but that
 same AU can scale to feed all its channels and capacity into a single
 sector.

 With each added level of diversity, the translation is better link
 budgets (less cells) with increased capacity. Fourth order diversity
 over no diversity adds 12 dB up and 6 dB down in terms of improved link
 budgets. This is not generally used to increase range so much as it is
 to increase link reliability at range.

 Our expectation is that our 3.65 GHz deployments will mostly have a
 standard configuration of 3 sectors with 2nd order diversity, except in
 a high urban deployment (such as a Tower Stream type model), which is
 more likely to have 4th order diversity to improve the range and number
 of self-install CPE that can be deployed.

 Patrick Leary
 AVP, Market Development
 Alvarion, Inc.
 o: 650.314.2628
 c: 760.580.0080
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:05 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future - a brief explanation on diversity

 Mike, et al,

 As Jeff implied about coverage (and costs), with WiMAX it is all about
 diversity so let me try to explain it a bit. It is not so simple as one
 AP or two. In WiMAX you have IDUs and ODUs. In our case, one IDU can
 serve many different configurations since it have 4 ports on the IDU and
 supports up to 4th order diversity. So here is what each level of
 diversity actually looks like in terms of configuration:

 Single channel, no diversity -
 This is the basic configuration and the one WISPs have always deployed.
 Each AU-IDU connects to one ODU serving a single sector with a
 directional antenna.

 AU/IDU ODUSector
 + +   +
 +   +   --+ O +---+   +
 + O ---/  +   +   \---+ O +
 + O + + O +   +   +
 + O + +   +   +
 + O + +
 +   +
 +


 Multiple channels per AU, no diversity - Can be like above or two or
 three or four channels. Example shows four channels -

 AU/IDU ODU 1 Sector antenna 1
 Ch.1-4
 + +   +
 +   +   --+ O +---+   +
 + O ---/  +   +   \---+ O +
 + O +-\   + O +   +   +
 + O +-\\  +   +   +
 + O +-\\\ +
 +   +  \\\--ODU 2sector antenna 2
 +   \\
 \\--ODU 3sector antenna 3
  \
   \--ODU 4sector antenna 4


 Second order diversity - One sector with space diversity. Two AU-ODU
 channels 1  2. Same frequency and transmit power. Same AU-IDU share a
 common MAC and modem.

 AU/IDU ODU 1  Antenna 1
 Ch.12Sector 1
 + +   +
 +   +   --- O +   +
 + O ---/  +   +   \ O +
 + O --\   + O +   +   +
 + O +  \  +   +   +
 + O +   \ +
 +   +\   both sectors cover same area
 + \ ))   so both function as part of one
 sector \ ODU 2  Antenna 2
\Sector 1
 \+   +
  - O +   +
  +   +   \ O +
  + O +   +   +
  +   +   +
  +

 Fourth order diversity - Single sector. Single AU-IDU with 4 ODUs. Space
 and polarization diversities using dual polarization slant antennas.
 Channels 1 and 2 form one pair, channels 3 and 4 form one pair. Same
 frequency and transmit power are set for all four ODUs. Common MAC and
 modem.

 AU/IDU ODU 1Antenna 1
 Ch.1-4Sector 1 (dual pole)
 + + +
 +   +   --- O   +   +
 + O ---/  +   +   \-- O +
 + O --\   + O +  /--- O +
 + O --\\  + /   +   +
 + O --\\\  /+   both dual pole
 antennas
 +   +  \\\--ODU 2/Sector 2  Antenna 2)  function together in
 a
 +   \\ (dual pole)  single sector
 \\--ODU 3/Sector 1

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-23 Thread Tom DeReggi
I hardly think WIMax is a joke.

I agree WiMax is no better substitution than What WISPs are already doing.
I'd rathewr have the higher throughput and lower cost of unlicenced 
proprietary gear. But it is no joke.
Expecially not for those few players that do have legitimate Licensed 
spectrum.
WiMax in 2.5G sets the reality of clear strong competiton, for unlicensed 
WISPs.

I do believe that US Wimax with limited 3.6G spectrum (more or less 
unlicensed), really isn't a threat to WISPs, but it is clearly away to add 
more spectrum for competition.  What it means is that WISPs that controled 
the marketwith first in advantage, now have the potential for more 
competition. The trade off is the new entrants will have to pay more for 
less as the cost to enter the market. (3.6 less spectrum, WImAx gear more 
expensive).  But WISPs that are serious about protecting their position in 
the market will likely want to explore 3.6 to its max benefit, beofre their 
competitors do.

For example in Rural America, qty 3  5-10Mhz channels is huge.  In Urban 
America its hard to risk deployign 360 with 100% of the spectrum. What 
happens when interference kills a sector, you are done. But in Rural, the 
chance of interference is not nearly as likely.  I think this is what the 
Digital Bridges of the world are realizing.
a Small channel is good enough to build a business model on, when going 
after second-third tier markets.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Well Mike, the way I see it is that the sky has been falling my entire 
 time
 as an ISP (over a decade now).

 WiMax is still a joke in the market place.

 3G is too slow and too expensive.

 700 is not deployed in any level that matters and doesn't look like it 
 will
 be any time soon.

 Cable is in trouble because they are dying under the load of the high end
 users they they keep getting.  They need all of the capacity they can come
 up with for HDTV channels but broadband is taking up too much space on the
 coax.  They also JUST put in their networks.  The big companies aren't
 structured to reinvest in new hardware every few years.  I'd say that they
 will continue to grow and continue to piss off their base.  I'm not 
 worried
 about cable.

 As for ATT and Verizon?  People already hate the service and prices they
 have, so far I can sell against them.

 Fiber is cool, I have FTTH customers.  But man is it expensive!  There's
 just no way to ever make the investment back at today's pricing levels.
 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:44 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Future


 What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years?

 ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of town?)
 Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of town?)
 Cable will be using DOCSIS 3
 3G will gain more steam
 WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market
 700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the big guys


 My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what other's opinions are.

 My thought is that the big guys mentioned above will continue to avoid 
 the
 niche that we currently serve and we'll be able to provide better 
 services
 with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz, possibly TV
 white spaces) and WiMAX.


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


 -- 
 Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
 Checked by AVG.
 Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1 - Release Date: 3/26/2008 
 12:00 AM

 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-23 Thread Stephen Patrick
That's an interesting point to discuss.
WiMax profiles AFAIK go up to 64QAM
So does WiFi 802.11a, g, n
Orthogon AFAIK goes to higher order modulation, but are for P2P links where
SNR is (or can be) higher - at least with high gain antennas.
AFAIK No-one seems to be proposing more than 64QAM for P2MP.
Fading, variable channel characteristics particularly for non-LOS and of
course noise at the RX I am sure are key reasons.
Other spectral efficiencies in newer systems are gained with MIMO in it's
various permutations.

Comments/corrections welcome -

Regards

Stephen Patrick 
== 
Cablefree Solutions Ltd,
www.cablefreesolutions.com 


-Original Message-
From: Mike Hammett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 23 April 2008 20:37
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

From a spectral efficiency standpoint, WiMax is better than anything 
but
Orthogon.  I'm not saying to do mobile stuff, but for PtMP fixed wireless
that we do now.  More spectral efficiency is always better for the industry.


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Mike,

 My personal opinion is... in 5Ghz, Wimax is not the ideal solution.
 In 5.3-4 G, the allowable power is not high enough.
 In 5.8G, there is to much noise, from traditional legacy gear.
 We proved that in our trials 4 years ago, beta testing Aperto, pre-Wimax.
 It wasn't affordable to deploy a small channel and waste polarity with
 diversity, based on tower colo costs.
 In DC for example, we were lucky to get 1.5mbps total throughout, on a 
 6Mhz
 channel capable of 16-20mbps in the lab.
 Diversity helps get around NLOS, but it also prevents muting out
 interference on the non-needed polarity.
 In DC, only Spatial diversity was viable, because Spatial diversity does 
 not
 pickup out of polarity noise.
 But we found, polarity diversity is really what best helped get around 
 NLOS.
 Many of the WiMax vendors are working towards 5.8Ghz platforms, but
 personally, I think these are really only ideal for deployments to new
 underserved areas.
 Its a different stroy in areas of low noise or low cost to colocate, where
 mobile/NLOS is the goal and not high capacity.
 Many will disagree with me, but that is my opinion.
 I personally think, Alvarions existing unlicensed VL or Newer less 
 expensive
 line products are more preferred than their Wimax in the 5.8 band.

 In 3.6, I think WiMax is needy for the advanced WiMax feature. Because it 
 is
 virgin spectrum still. But it will be interesting to see how it all plays
 out, as more providers all try and use it in one area.

 My experience is of course based on old gear. The questions that I ask is
 whether the newer more advanced WiMax level gear has also added any new
 noise cancellation techniques to combine with diversity, so that diversity
 can be used more often, without a negative effect if noise exists on the
 other pol?
 The maximum benefit in gain was gained via receive diversity. A beam 
 turning
 90 deg out of pol could degrade over 20db, where as pol diverse signal
 transmitted only adds a db or so, only because the gain is contracdicted 
 by
 the loss associated with splitting the signal. Transmit diversity does
 however, have other benefits, as we know with Mimo style designs, and beam
 steering technologies.



 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:14 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Who have you been getting information\pricing from on the Aperto and
 Airspan
 products?


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message - 
 From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:16 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 comments inline.
 On Apr 22, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

 Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel?

 Not to my knowedge.


 Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription
 on say a
 10 meg client?

 Certainly.



 What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)?

 Between 5-10k



 What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)?

 Between 5-10k





 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message -
 From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Chuck,

 Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products.

 Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz
 channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Tom DeReggi
Another bankruptcy waiting to happen. 

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


  - Original Message - 
  From: Travis Johnson 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:35 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


  Hi,

  A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge company). 
They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test radio that we play 
with. We have their up to 3meg premium service and we barely get 1meg (any 
time we have tested over the last 3 months).

  Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to roll 
out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was pretty proud of 
herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per city... and I'm talking 
some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had 120,000).

  Travis
  Microserv

  Chuck McCown - 2 wrote: 
WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true but 
emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and 
technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to 
compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will never live 
up to the hype.

All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. 
Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value driven 
customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader for 
fixed wireless. technologies.

700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell 
spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts of 
data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the 
antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain than 
the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also there 
will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV 
stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't know if 
they get a special dispensation or what.

All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That will 
erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and capital 
intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks prefer 
to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer service 
and support will always retain the customer.

The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and drop 
the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base from 
DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as they 
could.  They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash situation 
from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us) from the 
other.

In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web development, 
OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell opportunities. 
All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA HDTV.  OTA 
HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the value 
conscious customer.  Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and help 
folks get their analog TVs converted over.  Less work than a WISP install 
and you will lock in the customer even more with superior customer service. 
You can rent them the gear for $5/month and make it a low cost package.

In 5 years hopefully your investment will be a cash cow and you will ride 
this horse until it dies.  Perhaps other technologies will come along for us 
to deploy but I see our segment strong for the next 5 years.  In 10 years, 
if we have not diversified, we will probably be hurting.

Oh, and satellite ISP will never do much.  Pesky physics.

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:44 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Future


  What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years?

ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of town?)
Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of town?)
Cable will be using DOCSIS 3
3G will gain more steam
WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market
700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the big guys


My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what other's opinions are.

My thought is that the big guys mentioned above will continue to avoid the 
niche that we currently serve and we'll be able to provide better services 
with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz, possibly TV 
white spaces) and WiMAX.


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Patrick Leary
That is not going to happen Tom. Not by a long shot. Nothing
fly-by-night about anything Kelley Dunne and Bill Wallace have ever
done. These are class acts in every sense of the word. Very smart. Very
talented. Very successful. Nothing left to chance. And damn nice people
too that are a dream to work for. You can't believe how people clamor to
work for them. I've known Kelley since 2002 and my personal regard for
him is no less than I have for many of the WISP personalities I hold
most dear. His commitment to underserved markets is second to none and
goes back his entire career.

By the way, his NOC is not far from one of your NoVA pops; it is right
there in Ashburn near Dulles.

Patrick Leary
AVP, Market Development
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:46 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

Another bankruptcy waiting to happen. 

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


  - Original Message - 
  From: Travis Johnson 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:35 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


  Hi,

  A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge
company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test radio
that we play with. We have their up to 3meg premium service and we
barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months).

  Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to
roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was pretty
proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per city...
and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had
120,000).

  Travis
  Microserv

  Chuck McCown - 2 wrote: 
WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
but 
emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and 
technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to 
compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will never
live 
up to the hype.

All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. 
Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
driven 
customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader for

fixed wireless. technologies.

700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell 
spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts of 
data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the 
antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
than 
the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
there 
will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV 
stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
know if 
they get a special dispensation or what.

All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That will 
erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and capital 
intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
prefer 
to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
service 
and support will always retain the customer.

The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and
drop 
the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base
from 
DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as
they 
could.  They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash
situation 
from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us) from
the 
other.

In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web
development, 
OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell opportunities.

All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA HDTV.
OTA 
HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the value 
conscious customer.  Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and help 
folks get their analog TVs converted over.  Less work than a WISP
install 
and you will lock in the customer even more with superior customer
service. 
You can rent them the gear for $5/month and make it a low cost package.

In 5 years hopefully your investment will be a cash cow and you will
ride 
this horse until it dies.  Perhaps other technologies will come along
for us 
to deploy but I see our segment strong for the next 5 years.  In 10
years, 
if we have not diversified, we will probably be hurting.

Oh, and satellite ISP will never do much.  Pesky physics.

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:44 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Future


  What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years?

ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of town?)
Verizon

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Patrick Leary
One point you need to remember Travis is that that barely 1 mbps you
are getting is with a self-install CPE that was either mailed to you or
you picked in a retail shop, correct? If so, you likely had it up and
running in under 5 minutes and they did not have to roll a truck.
Chances are, you can also take that CPE anywhere with you around town
and it will connect. You can also pop out the SIM card and pop in into
any other Alvarion self-install CPE in town and your specific services
will pop right up.

That 1 mbps you are getting through your wall is certainly better than
any neighboring fixed outdoor 900 MHz Canopy connection in both average
up and down steam that I have seen and it uses a smaller channel AND
goes through your wall AND required no truck roll (unless you are one of
those that have an outdoor CPE).

Patrick Leary
AVP, Market Development
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:55 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

Regardless... my point is they have invested $40M and I am offering 
higher speeds, for less money, with less cost per CPE and AP... and I 
have 10x the coverage they do in my market.

The GM even mentioned and if Sprint or Clearwire were to come to town 
with a check, we would definitely look at it... which means, once 
again, they are not in it for the long haul... and their customer 
service, and quality of service, will show that the longer they are in 
business. They are looking for the buyout to take their money (and 
profit) and run.

Travis
Microserv

Patrick Leary wrote:
 Actually, most of that $40M would have been for spectrum acquisition,
 which in the accounting world is marked as an asset. They also
 constructed a major NOC center. The wireless hardware is a small
 minority of the spending.

  

 Patrick 

 

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Travis Johnson
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 6:36 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

  

 Hi,

 A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge
 company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test
radio
 that we play with. We have their up to 3meg premium service and we
 barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months).

 Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to
 roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was
pretty
 proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per
city...
 and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had
 120,000).

 Travis
 Microserv

 Chuck McCown - 2 wrote: 

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but 
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and 
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to

 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
never
 live 
 up to the hype.
  
 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
go. 
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven 
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
for

 fixed wireless. technologies.
  
 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell

 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts
of 
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the

 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than 
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
 there 
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV 
 stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
 know if 
 they get a special dispensation or what.
  
 All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That
will 
 erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and
capital 
 intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
 prefer 
 to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
 service 
 and support will always retain the customer.
  
 The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and
 drop 
 the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base
 from 
 DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as
 they 
 could.  They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash
 situation 
 from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us)
from
 the 
 other.
  
 In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web
 development, 
 OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell
opportunities.

 All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA
HDTV.
 OTA 
 HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Tom DeReggi
his NOC is not far from one of your NoVA

Yes, aware of it.
My personal opinon... They are over confident. Unforeseen market factors 
dictate success or failure, as much as capitol, technical savy, and 
ambition.
However, If you say they are good people, they probably are.
I will say, I think they did make one smart choice that is undisputeable. 
When they decided on Wimax, they did it with the leader in WiMax 
technology, clearly positioning themselves for success.  (Provided they 
don't over spend on operations :-)


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:50 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 That is not going to happen Tom. Not by a long shot. Nothing
 fly-by-night about anything Kelley Dunne and Bill Wallace have ever
 done. These are class acts in every sense of the word. Very smart. Very
 talented. Very successful. Nothing left to chance. And damn nice people
 too that are a dream to work for. You can't believe how people clamor to
 work for them. I've known Kelley since 2002 and my personal regard for
 him is no less than I have for many of the WISP personalities I hold
 most dear. His commitment to underserved markets is second to none and
 goes back his entire career.

 By the way, his NOC is not far from one of your NoVA pops; it is right
 there in Ashburn near Dulles.

 Patrick Leary
 AVP, Market Development
 Alvarion, Inc.
 o: 650.314.2628
 c: 760.580.0080
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:46 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 Another bankruptcy waiting to happen.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


  - Original Message - 
  From: Travis Johnson
  To: WISPA General List
  Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:35 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


  Hi,

  A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge
 company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test radio
 that we play with. We have their up to 3meg premium service and we
 barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months).

  Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to
 roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was pretty
 proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per city...
 and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had
 120,000).

  Travis
  Microserv

  Chuck McCown - 2 wrote:
 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts of
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the
 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
 there
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV
 stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
 know if
 they get a special dispensation or what.

 All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That will
 erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and capital
 intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
 prefer
 to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
 service
 and support will always retain the customer.

 The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and
 drop
 the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base
 from
 DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as
 they
 could.  They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash
 situation
 from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us) from
 the
 other.

 In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web
 development,
 OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell opportunities.

 All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA HDTV.
 OTA
 HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the value
 conscious customer.  Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and help
 folks get their analog TVs converted over.  Less work

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Travis Johnson




My point was they are selling a "3mbps connection" that doesn't
deliver... just like the cable companies and telcos... they are no
different. Fluff it all up and do whatever it takes to "fool" the
customer so they will sign up. I don't like it and I think it's
dishonest. I don't like people that do business like that.

Travis
Microserv

Patrick Leary wrote:

  One point you need to remember Travis is that that "barely 1 mbps" you
are getting is with a self-install CPE that was either mailed to you or
you picked in a retail shop, correct? If so, you likely had it up and
running in under 5 minutes and they did not have to roll a truck.
Chances are, you can also take that CPE anywhere with you around town
and it will connect. You can also pop out the SIM card and pop in into
any other Alvarion self-install CPE in town and your specific services
will pop right up.

That 1 mbps you are getting through your wall is certainly better than
any neighboring fixed outdoor 900 MHz Canopy connection in both average
up and down steam that I have seen and it uses a smaller channel AND
goes through your wall AND required no truck roll (unless you are one of
those that have an outdoor CPE).

Patrick Leary
AVP, Market Development
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:55 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

Regardless... my point is they have invested $40M and I am offering 
higher speeds, for less money, with less cost per CPE and AP... and I 
have 10x the coverage they do in my market.

The GM even mentioned "and if Sprint or Clearwire were to come to town 
with a check, we would definitely look at it"... which means, once 
again, they are not in it for the long haul... and their customer 
service, and quality of service, will show that the longer they are in 
business. They are looking for the "buyout" to take their money (and 
profit) and run.

Travis
Microserv

Patrick Leary wrote:
  
  
Actually, most of that $40M would have been for spectrum acquisition,
which in the accounting world is marked as an asset. They also
constructed a major NOC center. The wireless hardware is a small
minority of the spending.

 

Patrick 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

  
  On
  
  
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 6:36 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 

Hi,

A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge
company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test

  
  radio
  
  
that we play with. We have their "up to 3meg premium service" and we
barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months).

Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to
roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was

  
  pretty
  
  
proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per

  
  city...
  
  
and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had
120,000).

Travis
Microserv

Chuck McCown - 2 wrote: 

WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
but 
emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and 
technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to

  
  
  
  
compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will

  
  never
  
  
live 
up to the hype.
 
All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the

  
  go. 
  
  
Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
driven 
customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader

  
  for
  
  
fixed wireless. technologies.
 
700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell

  
  
  
  
spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts

  
  of 
  
  
data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the

  
  
  
  
antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
than 
the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
there 
will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV 
stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
know if 
they get a special dispensation or what.
 
All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That

  
  will 
  
  
erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and

  
  capital 
  
  
intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
prefer 
to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
service 
and support will always retain the customer.
 
The cable companies will continue to shoo

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Matt Liotta
For all the props Patrick is giving them for a self-install CPE it  
would seem that the link budget isn't there for the service you  
ordered. Most likely a professionally installed outdoor CPE would work  
for you, but that isn't the point. How can you build a business model  
around selling a service with self-install variables? I would think  
you need to sell a best effort service such that the customer doesn't  
have incorrect expectations. For customers who want guaranteed  
performance a professional install seems appropriate.

-Matt

On Apr 22, 2008, at 9:34 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
 My point was they are selling a 3mbps connection that doesn't  
 deliver... just like the cable companies and telcos... they are no  
 different. Fluff it all up and do whatever it takes to fool the  
 customer so they will sign up. I don't like it and I think it's  
 dishonest. I don't like people that do business like that.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Patrick Leary wrote:

 One point you need to remember Travis is that that barely 1 mbps  
 you
 are getting is with a self-install CPE that was either mailed to  
 you or
 you picked in a retail shop, correct? If so, you likely had it up and
 running in under 5 minutes and they did not have to roll a truck.
 Chances are, you can also take that CPE anywhere with you around town
 and it will connect. You can also pop out the SIM card and pop in  
 into
 any other Alvarion self-install CPE in town and your specific  
 services
 will pop right up.

 That 1 mbps you are getting through your wall is certainly better  
 than
 any neighboring fixed outdoor 900 MHz Canopy connection in both  
 average
 up and down steam that I have seen and it uses a smaller channel AND
 goes through your wall AND required no truck roll (unless you are  
 one of
 those that have an outdoor CPE).

 Patrick Leary
 AVP, Market Development
 Alvarion, Inc.
 o: 650.314.2628
 c: 760.580.0080
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Travis Johnson
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:55 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 Regardless... my point is they have invested $40M and I am offering
 higher speeds, for less money, with less cost per CPE and AP... and I
 have 10x the coverage they do in my market.

 The GM even mentioned and if Sprint or Clearwire were to come to  
 town
 with a check, we would definitely look at it... which means, once
 again, they are not in it for the long haul... and their customer
 service, and quality of service, will show that the longer they are  
 in
 business. They are looking for the buyout to take their money (and
 profit) and run.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Patrick Leary wrote:

 Actually, most of that $40M would have been for spectrum  
 acquisition,
 which in the accounting world is marked as an asset. They also
 constructed a major NOC center. The wireless hardware is a small
 minority of the spending.



 Patrick

 

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 On

 Behalf Of Travis Johnson
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 6:36 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future



 Hi,

 A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge
 company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test

 radio

 that we play with. We have their up to 3meg premium service and we
 barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months).

 Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars  
 to
 roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was

 pretty

 proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per

 city...

 and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest  
 had
 120,000).

 Travis
 Microserv

 Chuck McCown - 2 wrote:

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually  
 true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies  
 and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well  
 suited to


 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will

 never

 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the

 go.

 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader

 for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more  
 cell


 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts

 of

 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of  
 the


 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
 there
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV
 stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
 know if
 they get a special

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Cameron Kilton
Maybe, they are not lying, that is the over the air rate they are
selling.haha. 
 
I'm with you on this one Travis. 
 
Cameron
Midcoast Internet
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:35 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future
 
My point was they are selling a 3mbps connection that doesn't
deliver... just like the cable companies and telcos... they are no
different. Fluff it all up and do whatever it takes to fool the
customer so they will sign up. I don't like it and I think it's
dishonest. I don't like people that do business like that.

Travis
Microserv

Patrick Leary wrote: 
One point you need to remember Travis is that that barely 1 mbps you
are getting is with a self-install CPE that was either mailed to you or
you picked in a retail shop, correct? If so, you likely had it up and
running in under 5 minutes and they did not have to roll a truck.
Chances are, you can also take that CPE anywhere with you around town
and it will connect. You can also pop out the SIM card and pop in into
any other Alvarion self-install CPE in town and your specific services
will pop right up.
 
That 1 mbps you are getting through your wall is certainly better than
any neighboring fixed outdoor 900 MHz Canopy connection in both average
up and down steam that I have seen and it uses a smaller channel AND
goes through your wall AND required no truck roll (unless you are one of
those that have an outdoor CPE).
 
Patrick Leary
AVP, Market Development
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:55 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future
 
Regardless... my point is they have invested $40M and I am offering 
higher speeds, for less money, with less cost per CPE and AP... and I 
have 10x the coverage they do in my market.
 
The GM even mentioned and if Sprint or Clearwire were to come to town 
with a check, we would definitely look at it... which means, once 
again, they are not in it for the long haul... and their customer 
service, and quality of service, will show that the longer they are in 
business. They are looking for the buyout to take their money (and 
profit) and run.
 
Travis
Microserv
 
Patrick Leary wrote:
  
Actually, most of that $40M would have been for spectrum acquisition,
which in the accounting world is marked as an asset. They also
constructed a major NOC center. The wireless hardware is a small
minority of the spending.
 
 
 
Patrick 
 

 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

On
  
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 6:36 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future
 
 
 
Hi,
 
A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge
company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test

radio
  
that we play with. We have their up to 3meg premium service and we
barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months).
 
Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to
roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was

pretty
  
proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per

city...
  
and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had
120,000).
 
Travis
Microserv
 
Chuck McCown - 2 wrote: 
 
WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
but 
emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and 
technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to

 
  
compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will

never
  
live 
up to the hype.
 
All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the

go. 
  
Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
driven 
customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader

for
  
fixed wireless. technologies.
 
700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell

 
  
spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts

of 
  
data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the

 
  
antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
than 
the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
there 
will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV 
stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
know if 
they get a special dispensation or what.
 
All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That

will 
  
erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and

capital 
  
intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
prefer 
to deal with us vs a large public traded company

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Travis Johnson
Hi,

I don't doubt that these two are the nicest people in the whole world. 
However, to put on the show that they are serving the under served 
markets is total BS. The markets they have deployed in already have 
cable, DSL, and at least 2 or 3 other WISP's. The under served 
communities in this area have less than 500 population. Why aren't they 
deploying there?

This is an obvious business build and sell operation. It would be 
impossible for them to ever make a profit. They are selling service for 
$23.95 for 1Mbps. The modem costs at least $400 and the AP per CPE is 
probably another $500. So they have $1,000 into each customer... that's 
roughly 40 months payback on just the equipment.

If we take the $40M and put it into a bank, you could easily make 5% 
interest, risk free. That's $2M per year profit. They will NEVER make 
that kind of profit. Again, they are in this to build it up, and then 
sell it off to Sprint or Clearwire. Let's stop with the they are 
helping the smaller communities get online stuff and say it like it is.

Travis
Microserv

Patrick Leary wrote:
 That is not going to happen Tom. Not by a long shot. Nothing
 fly-by-night about anything Kelley Dunne and Bill Wallace have ever
 done. These are class acts in every sense of the word. Very smart. Very
 talented. Very successful. Nothing left to chance. And damn nice people
 too that are a dream to work for. You can't believe how people clamor to
 work for them. I've known Kelley since 2002 and my personal regard for
 him is no less than I have for many of the WISP personalities I hold
 most dear. His commitment to underserved markets is second to none and
 goes back his entire career.

 By the way, his NOC is not far from one of your NoVA pops; it is right
 there in Ashburn near Dulles.

 Patrick Leary
 AVP, Market Development
 Alvarion, Inc.
 o: 650.314.2628
 c: 760.580.0080
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:46 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 Another bankruptcy waiting to happen. 

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


   - Original Message - 
   From: Travis Johnson 
   To: WISPA General List 
   Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:35 AM
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


   Hi,

   A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge
 company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test radio
 that we play with. We have their up to 3meg premium service and we
 barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months).

   Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to
 roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was pretty
 proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per city...
 and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had
 120,000).

   Travis
   Microserv

   Chuck McCown - 2 wrote: 
 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but 
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and 
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to 
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will never
 live 
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. 
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven 
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell 
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts of 
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the 
 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than 
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
 there 
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV 
 stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
 know if 
 they get a special dispensation or what.

 All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That will 
 erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and capital 
 intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
 prefer 
 to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
 service 
 and support will always retain the customer.

 The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and
 drop 
 the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base
 from 
 DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as
 they 
 could.  They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash
 situation 
 from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us) from
 the 
 other.

 In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web
 development

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Chuck McCown - 2

- Original Message - 
From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:02 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 One point you need to remember Travis is that that barely 1 mbps you
 are getting is with a self-install CPE that was either mailed to you or
 you picked in a retail shop, correct? If so, you likely had it up and
 running in under 5 minutes and they did not have to roll a truck.
 Chances are, you can also take that CPE anywhere with you around town
 and it will connect. You can also pop out the SIM card and pop in into
 any other Alvarion self-install CPE in town and your specific services
 will pop right up.

 That 1 mbps you are getting through your wall is certainly better than
 any neighboring fixed outdoor 900 MHz Canopy connection in both average
 up and down steam that I have seen and it uses a smaller channel AND
 goes through your wall AND required no truck roll (unless you are one of
 those that have an outdoor CPE).

 Patrick Leary
 AVP, Market Development
 Alvarion, Inc.
 o: 650.314.2628
 c: 760.580.0080
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Travis Johnson
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:55 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 Regardless... my point is they have invested $40M and I am offering
 higher speeds, for less money, with less cost per CPE and AP... and I
 have 10x the coverage they do in my market.

 The GM even mentioned and if Sprint or Clearwire were to come to town
 with a check, we would definitely look at it... which means, once
 again, they are not in it for the long haul... and their customer
 service, and quality of service, will show that the longer they are in
 business. They are looking for the buyout to take their money (and
 profit) and run.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Patrick Leary wrote:
 Actually, most of that $40M would have been for spectrum acquisition,
 which in the accounting world is marked as an asset. They also
 constructed a major NOC center. The wireless hardware is a small
 minority of the spending.



 Patrick

 

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Travis Johnson
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 6:36 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future



 Hi,

 A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge
 company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test
 radio
 that we play with. We have their up to 3meg premium service and we
 barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months).

 Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to
 roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was
 pretty
 proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per
 city...
 and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had
 120,000).

 Travis
 Microserv

 Chuck McCown - 2 wrote:

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to

 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
 never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
 go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
 for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell

 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts
 of
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the

 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
 there
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV
 stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
 know if
 they get a special dispensation or what.

 All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That
 will
 erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and
 capital
 intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
 prefer
 to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
 service
 and support will always retain the customer.

 The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and
 drop
 the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base
 from
 DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as
 they
 could.  They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash
 situation
 from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us)
 from
 the
 other.

 In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web
 development,
 OTA HDTV install

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Chuck McCown - 2
We deliver 4 Mbps on our 900 MHz Canopy.  Speed sells.  Nothing else matters 
if you don't have the speed.

This is good to know in that everywhere these guys set up shop, the local 
canopy deployment is sure to have an opportunity picking off unsatisfied 
customers.

And 900 Canopy does go through walls.  They also have self install indoor 
CPE.
I would guess this is another case of OPM (other people's money).  Earthlink 
was full of good people too.
Most muni wifi's were staffed by good people.

- Original Message - 
From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:02 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 One point you need to remember Travis is that that barely 1 mbps you
 are getting is with a self-install CPE that was either mailed to you or
 you picked in a retail shop, correct? If so, you likely had it up and
 running in under 5 minutes and they did not have to roll a truck.
 Chances are, you can also take that CPE anywhere with you around town
 and it will connect. You can also pop out the SIM card and pop in into
 any other Alvarion self-install CPE in town and your specific services
 will pop right up.

 That 1 mbps you are getting through your wall is certainly better than
 any neighboring fixed outdoor 900 MHz Canopy connection in both average
 up and down steam that I have seen and it uses a smaller channel AND
 goes through your wall AND required no truck roll (unless you are one of
 those that have an outdoor CPE).

 Patrick Leary
 AVP, Market Development
 Alvarion, Inc.
 o: 650.314.2628
 c: 760.580.0080
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Travis Johnson
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:55 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 Regardless... my point is they have invested $40M and I am offering
 higher speeds, for less money, with less cost per CPE and AP... and I
 have 10x the coverage they do in my market.

 The GM even mentioned and if Sprint or Clearwire were to come to town
 with a check, we would definitely look at it... which means, once
 again, they are not in it for the long haul... and their customer
 service, and quality of service, will show that the longer they are in
 business. They are looking for the buyout to take their money (and
 profit) and run.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Patrick Leary wrote:
 Actually, most of that $40M would have been for spectrum acquisition,
 which in the accounting world is marked as an asset. They also
 constructed a major NOC center. The wireless hardware is a small
 minority of the spending.



 Patrick

 

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Travis Johnson
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 6:36 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future



 Hi,

 A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge
 company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test
 radio
 that we play with. We have their up to 3meg premium service and we
 barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months).

 Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to
 roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was
 pretty
 proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per
 city...
 and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had
 120,000).

 Travis
 Microserv

 Chuck McCown - 2 wrote:

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to

 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
 never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
 go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
 for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell

 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts
 of
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the

 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
 there
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV
 stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
 know if
 they get a special dispensation or what.

 All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That
 will
 erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and
 capital
 intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
 prefer
 to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
 service
 and support will always retain the customer

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Patrick Leary
Good question Matt. The way this is addressed with our major customers
is with radio network planning. One of the services we do that each
major customer has used is to perform a major coverage analysis using
the most current clutter data and a software package called Hexagon. The
analysis is done in complete conjunction with development of the
business plan, since there are many variables to measure from what
services to what scale to what range to what percentage planned for
self-install versus outdoor CPE, not to mention the basics such as cell
height, etc. We are able to provide these guys with a document that is
both a technical instruction and a sales and marketing doc. The
deliverable tells an operator with better than 98% certainty (and this
has been proven out in EVERY case) EXACTLY which addresses can be served
at what data rates with what CPE. It is far more than just a coverage
plan.

This plan is something that is the bible of the operator, since they
should never install a client outside the boundaries of this doc.

So pretty much all the variables are accounted for and there is no guess
work. All this contributes to extremely high satisfaction rates so far
and virtually no support calls (a data point that DBC measures carefully
and is able to benchmark it against years in previous CLEC business).
There is a public presentation somewhere that I will link to if I can
find it that reveals some of the interesting data gathered so far. One
of the most interesting for us is that our 802.16e WiMAX operators we
have in North America (at least those we know that have shared this data
with us) has at least doubled take rates. One beat it by 10x.
 
Patrick

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 6:42 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

For all the props Patrick is giving them for a self-install CPE it  
would seem that the link budget isn't there for the service you  
ordered. Most likely a professionally installed outdoor CPE would work  
for you, but that isn't the point. How can you build a business model  
around selling a service with self-install variables? I would think  
you need to sell a best effort service such that the customer doesn't  
have incorrect expectations. For customers who want guaranteed  
performance a professional install seems appropriate.

-Matt

On Apr 22, 2008, at 9:34 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
 My point was they are selling a 3mbps connection that doesn't  
 deliver... just like the cable companies and telcos... they are no  
 different. Fluff it all up and do whatever it takes to fool the  
 customer so they will sign up. I don't like it and I think it's  
 dishonest. I don't like people that do business like that.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Patrick Leary wrote:

 One point you need to remember Travis is that that barely 1 mbps  
 you
 are getting is with a self-install CPE that was either mailed to  
 you or
 you picked in a retail shop, correct? If so, you likely had it up and
 running in under 5 minutes and they did not have to roll a truck.
 Chances are, you can also take that CPE anywhere with you around town
 and it will connect. You can also pop out the SIM card and pop in  
 into
 any other Alvarion self-install CPE in town and your specific  
 services
 will pop right up.

 That 1 mbps you are getting through your wall is certainly better  
 than
 any neighboring fixed outdoor 900 MHz Canopy connection in both  
 average
 up and down steam that I have seen and it uses a smaller channel AND
 goes through your wall AND required no truck roll (unless you are  
 one of
 those that have an outdoor CPE).

 Patrick Leary
 AVP, Market Development
 Alvarion, Inc.
 o: 650.314.2628
 c: 760.580.0080
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Travis Johnson
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:55 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 Regardless... my point is they have invested $40M and I am offering
 higher speeds, for less money, with less cost per CPE and AP... and I
 have 10x the coverage they do in my market.

 The GM even mentioned and if Sprint or Clearwire were to come to  
 town
 with a check, we would definitely look at it... which means, once
 again, they are not in it for the long haul... and their customer
 service, and quality of service, will show that the longer they are  
 in
 business. They are looking for the buyout to take their money (and
 profit) and run.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Patrick Leary wrote:

 Actually, most of that $40M would have been for spectrum  
 acquisition,
 which in the accounting world is marked as an asset. They also
 constructed a major NOC center. The wireless hardware is a small
 minority of the spending.



 Patrick

 

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 On

 Behalf Of Travis

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Matt Liotta
We too rely heavily on software for determining the serviceability of  
the customer. As part of this our software takes into account not only  
antenna height and ground data, but also performs longley-rice loss  
calculations that include fresnel clearance, EIRP, antenna patterns  
and various atmospheric metrics. Even with this level of  
sophistication the software gets it wrong some of the time. The data  
is either out of date or simply not high enough resolution.  
Regardless, the fact that Travis ordered the service and got something  
that doesn't match what he ordered tells us one of two things. Either  
they are not following your bible or your bible in this case is  
wrong. Again, regardless the problem with self-installs stays the  
same. How does one build a business model that allows for these  
exceptions. Should the company terminate Travis's services or discount  
them?

-Matt

On Apr 22, 2008, at 11:54 AM, Patrick Leary wrote:
 Good question Matt. The way this is addressed with our major customers
 is with radio network planning. One of the services we do that each
 major customer has used is to perform a major coverage analysis using
 the most current clutter data and a software package called Hexagon.  
 The
 analysis is done in complete conjunction with development of the
 business plan, since there are many variables to measure from what
 services to what scale to what range to what percentage planned for
 self-install versus outdoor CPE, not to mention the basics such as  
 cell
 height, etc. We are able to provide these guys with a document that is
 both a technical instruction and a sales and marketing doc. The
 deliverable tells an operator with better than 98% certainty (and this
 has been proven out in EVERY case) EXACTLY which addresses can be  
 served
 at what data rates with what CPE. It is far more than just a coverage
 plan.

 This plan is something that is the bible of the operator, since they
 should never install a client outside the boundaries of this doc.

 So pretty much all the variables are accounted for and there is no  
 guess
 work. All this contributes to extremely high satisfaction rates so far
 and virtually no support calls (a data point that DBC measures  
 carefully
 and is able to benchmark it against years in previous CLEC business).
 There is a public presentation somewhere that I will link to if I can
 find it that reveals some of the interesting data gathered so far. One
 of the most interesting for us is that our 802.16e WiMAX operators we
 have in North America (at least those we know that have shared this  
 data
 with us) has at least doubled take rates. One beat it by 10x.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 On
 Behalf Of Matt Liotta
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 6:42 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 For all the props Patrick is giving them for a self-install CPE it
 would seem that the link budget isn't there for the service you
 ordered. Most likely a professionally installed outdoor CPE would work
 for you, but that isn't the point. How can you build a business model
 around selling a service with self-install variables? I would think
 you need to sell a best effort service such that the customer doesn't
 have incorrect expectations. For customers who want guaranteed
 performance a professional install seems appropriate.

 -Matt

 On Apr 22, 2008, at 9:34 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
 My point was they are selling a 3mbps connection that doesn't
 deliver... just like the cable companies and telcos... they are no
 different. Fluff it all up and do whatever it takes to fool the
 customer so they will sign up. I don't like it and I think it's
 dishonest. I don't like people that do business like that.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Patrick Leary wrote:

 One point you need to remember Travis is that that barely 1 mbps
 you
 are getting is with a self-install CPE that was either mailed to
 you or
 you picked in a retail shop, correct? If so, you likely had it up  
 and
 running in under 5 minutes and they did not have to roll a truck.
 Chances are, you can also take that CPE anywhere with you around  
 town
 and it will connect. You can also pop out the SIM card and pop in
 into
 any other Alvarion self-install CPE in town and your specific
 services
 will pop right up.

 That 1 mbps you are getting through your wall is certainly better
 than
 any neighboring fixed outdoor 900 MHz Canopy connection in both
 average
 up and down steam that I have seen and it uses a smaller channel AND
 goes through your wall AND required no truck roll (unless you are
 one of
 those that have an outdoor CPE).

 Patrick Leary
 AVP, Market Development
 Alvarion, Inc.
 o: 650.314.2628
 c: 760.580.0080
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless-
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Travis Johnson
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:55 AM
 To: WISPA General

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Patrick Leary
5 meter resolution and current. Typical local construction is also
accounted for. It has been very accurate (beyond our expectation).

Patrick 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:12 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

We too rely heavily on software for determining the serviceability of  
the customer. As part of this our software takes into account not only  
antenna height and ground data, but also performs longley-rice loss  
calculations that include fresnel clearance, EIRP, antenna patterns  
and various atmospheric metrics. Even with this level of  
sophistication the software gets it wrong some of the time. The data  
is either out of date or simply not high enough resolution.  
Regardless, the fact that Travis ordered the service and got something  
that doesn't match what he ordered tells us one of two things. Either  
they are not following your bible or your bible in this case is  
wrong. Again, regardless the problem with self-installs stays the  
same. How does one build a business model that allows for these  
exceptions. Should the company terminate Travis's services or discount  
them?

-Matt

On Apr 22, 2008, at 11:54 AM, Patrick Leary wrote:
 Good question Matt. The way this is addressed with our major customers
 is with radio network planning. One of the services we do that each
 major customer has used is to perform a major coverage analysis using
 the most current clutter data and a software package called Hexagon.  
 The
 analysis is done in complete conjunction with development of the
 business plan, since there are many variables to measure from what
 services to what scale to what range to what percentage planned for
 self-install versus outdoor CPE, not to mention the basics such as  
 cell
 height, etc. We are able to provide these guys with a document that is
 both a technical instruction and a sales and marketing doc. The
 deliverable tells an operator with better than 98% certainty (and this
 has been proven out in EVERY case) EXACTLY which addresses can be  
 served
 at what data rates with what CPE. It is far more than just a coverage
 plan.

 This plan is something that is the bible of the operator, since they
 should never install a client outside the boundaries of this doc.

 So pretty much all the variables are accounted for and there is no  
 guess
 work. All this contributes to extremely high satisfaction rates so far
 and virtually no support calls (a data point that DBC measures  
 carefully
 and is able to benchmark it against years in previous CLEC business).
 There is a public presentation somewhere that I will link to if I can
 find it that reveals some of the interesting data gathered so far. One
 of the most interesting for us is that our 802.16e WiMAX operators we
 have in North America (at least those we know that have shared this  
 data
 with us) has at least doubled take rates. One beat it by 10x.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 On
 Behalf Of Matt Liotta
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 6:42 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 For all the props Patrick is giving them for a self-install CPE it
 would seem that the link budget isn't there for the service you
 ordered. Most likely a professionally installed outdoor CPE would work
 for you, but that isn't the point. How can you build a business model
 around selling a service with self-install variables? I would think
 you need to sell a best effort service such that the customer doesn't
 have incorrect expectations. For customers who want guaranteed
 performance a professional install seems appropriate.

 -Matt

 On Apr 22, 2008, at 9:34 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
 My point was they are selling a 3mbps connection that doesn't
 deliver... just like the cable companies and telcos... they are no
 different. Fluff it all up and do whatever it takes to fool the
 customer so they will sign up. I don't like it and I think it's
 dishonest. I don't like people that do business like that.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Patrick Leary wrote:

 One point you need to remember Travis is that that barely 1 mbps
 you
 are getting is with a self-install CPE that was either mailed to
 you or
 you picked in a retail shop, correct? If so, you likely had it up  
 and
 running in under 5 minutes and they did not have to roll a truck.
 Chances are, you can also take that CPE anywhere with you around  
 town
 and it will connect. You can also pop out the SIM card and pop in
 into
 any other Alvarion self-install CPE in town and your specific
 services
 will pop right up.

 That 1 mbps you are getting through your wall is certainly better
 than
 any neighboring fixed outdoor 900 MHz Canopy connection in both
 average
 up and down steam that I have seen and it uses a smaller channel AND
 goes through your wall AND required no truck roll (unless you

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread chris cooper
To follow up on the quote below-

You'll have ups  downs, but don't listen to the fear inside your head. 


I would listen very closely to the fear inside your head.  Don't let it
paralyze you, but listen to it.  Fear is a great motivator and often
prevents us from doing some very foolish things.  I once saw Pat
Parelli, the great horse trainer, lead an absolutely wild horse into a
closed corral with him. Horses are big, dangerous animals that can
easily kill you if you make a mistake.  As the horse stormed around him
he said Do I have butterflies in my stomach? You better believe I have
butterflies in my stomach.  The difference between me and the average
guy is that I've taught my butterflies to fly in formation. Most
entrepreneurs Ive met are driven by the fear of lack of success, not
necessarily the fear of failure (the two are different)or the fear of
loss of capital. You just have to focus that fear and push ahead.

chris

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:44 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Future


 What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years?






WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Jeff Booher
Chuck:

Depends on the frequency, channel size, type of service delivery  
( fixed or mobile ), urban environment, suburban or rural, mimo,  
diversity


YMMV is always the case with wimax. :)

-

Jeff



On Apr 21, 2008, at 10:01 AM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote:

 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours  
 great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly.  
 Meanwhile, Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)  
 was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the  
 expectations. I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's  
 greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message -
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited  
 to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
 never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
 go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
 for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more  
 cell
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts
 of
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of  
 the
 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
 there
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV
 stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
 know if
 they get a special dispensation or what.

 All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That
 will
 erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and
 capital
 intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
 prefer
 to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
 service
 and support will always retain the customer.

 The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and
 drop
 the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base
 from
 DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well  
 as
 they
 could.  They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash
 situation
 from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us)
 from
 the
 other.

 In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web
 development,
 OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell
 opportunities.

 All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA
 HDTV.
 OTA
 HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the value
 conscious customer.  Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and
 help
 folks get their analog TVs converted over.  Less work than a WISP
 install
 and you will lock in the customer even more with superior customer
 service.
 You can rent them the gear for $5/month and make it a low cost
 package.

 In 5 years hopefully your investment will be a cash cow and you will
 ride
 this horse until it dies

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Jeff Booher
Chuck,

Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products.

Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz  
channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also, there  
are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the  
licenseholders are.



-

Jeff

On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote:

 Patrick,
 Excellent point on channel sizes!
 So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? ,  
 5.X, 3.6
 (we are in a big exclusion zone.)
 I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers.
 Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes?
 Would it use the same channel sizes?
 Would it help with range and capacity?
 Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent?
 In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls?


 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 On
 Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours  
 great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly.  
 Meanwhile, Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)  
 was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the  
 expectations. I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's  
 greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message -
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited  
 to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
 never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
 go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
 for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more  
 cell
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts
 of
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of  
 the
 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
 there
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV
 stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
 know if
 they get a special dispensation or what.

 All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That
 will
 erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and
 capital
 intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
 prefer
 to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
 service
 and support will always retain the customer.

 The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and
 drop
 the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base
 from
 DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Mark Nash
Chris... I'm agreeing with you when I say that what I was trying to get
across is that there is opportunity for smaller operators even when the
giant operators are around, and even in your area, and even charging less
than you are.

You have to understand your market(s) and take risks sometimes.  In the
beginning, the risk is larger.  As you grow, you can afford to take less
risk, but it is still there.  Understand it, and look it in the eye.  I got
shocked once by electricity that threw me onto my butt 20 feet back.  Now I
respect electricity, but that doesn't keep me from working with it.  Same
thing as your horse story below.

Mark Nash
UnwiredWest
78 Centennial Loop
Suite E
Eugene, OR 97401
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
http://www.unwiredwest.com
- Original Message - 
From: chris cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 To follow up on the quote below-

 You'll have ups  downs, but don't listen to the fear inside your head.


 I would listen very closely to the fear inside your head.  Don't let it
 paralyze you, but listen to it.  Fear is a great motivator and often
 prevents us from doing some very foolish things.  I once saw Pat
 Parelli, the great horse trainer, lead an absolutely wild horse into a
 closed corral with him. Horses are big, dangerous animals that can
 easily kill you if you make a mistake.  As the horse stormed around him
 he said Do I have butterflies in my stomach? You better believe I have
 butterflies in my stomach.  The difference between me and the average
 guy is that I've taught my butterflies to fly in formation. Most
 entrepreneurs Ive met are driven by the fear of lack of success, not
 necessarily the fear of failure (the two are different)or the fear of
 loss of capital. You just have to focus that fear and push ahead.

 chris

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:44 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Future


  What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years?
 




 --
--
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 --
--

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Mike Hammett
Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel?

Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription on say a 
10 meg client?

What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)?

What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)?


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Chuck,

 Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products.

 Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz
 channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also, there
 are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the
 licenseholders are.



 -

 Jeff

 On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote:

 Patrick,
 Excellent point on channel sizes!
 So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? ,
 5.X, 3.6
 (we are in a big exclusion zone.)
 I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers.
 Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes?
 Would it use the same channel sizes?
 Would it help with range and capacity?
 Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent?
 In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls?


 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
 great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly.
 Meanwhile, Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
 was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the
 expectations. I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
 greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message -
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited
 to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
 never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
 go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
 for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more
 cell
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts
 of
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of
 the
 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
 there
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV
 stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
 know if
 they get a special dispensation or what.

 All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Chuck McCown
That is pretty much what we do on Motorola Canopy.
20 MHz channels.
128:1 (or less) over subscription
10 Mbps
First AP and BH would be in the $5K range
Second AP would be in the $2K range.  (depending on antennas etc).

We are waiting to see what the OFDM product will do.  Smaller channels. 
More speed.
(more money too).

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel?

 Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription on say 
 a
 10 meg client?

 What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)?

 What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)?


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message - 
 From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Chuck,

 Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products.

 Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz
 channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also, there
 are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the
 licenseholders are.



 -

 Jeff

 On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote:

 Patrick,
 Excellent point on channel sizes!
 So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? ,
 5.X, 3.6
 (we are in a big exclusion zone.)
 I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers.
 Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes?
 Would it use the same channel sizes?
 Would it help with range and capacity?
 Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent?
 In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls?


 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
 great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly.
 Meanwhile, Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
 was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the
 expectations. I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
 greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message -
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited
 to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
 never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
 go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
 for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more
 cell
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread D. Ryan Spott
Chuck, 

What speeds do you sell to your end customers at 128:1 oversub? 

(I am assuming that you never really go this high!) :)

ryan

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:33 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

That is pretty much what we do on Motorola Canopy.
20 MHz channels.
128:1 (or less) over subscription
10 Mbps
First AP and BH would be in the $5K range
Second AP would be in the $2K range.  (depending on antennas etc).

We are waiting to see what the OFDM product will do.  Smaller channels. 
More speed.
(more money too).

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel?

 Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription on say

 a
 10 meg client?

 What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)?

 What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)?


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message - 
 From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Chuck,

 Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products.

 Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz
 channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also, there
 are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the
 licenseholders are.



 -

 Jeff

 On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote:

 Patrick,
 Excellent point on channel sizes!
 So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? ,
 5.X, 3.6
 (we are in a big exclusion zone.)
 I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers.
 Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes?
 Would it use the same channel sizes?
 Would it help with range and capacity?
 Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent?
 In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls?


 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
 great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly.
 Meanwhile, Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
 was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the
 expectations. I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
 greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message -
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited
 to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
 never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Chuck McCown
We sell 10.2 Mbps burst service.  And most of them actually get that speed.
If they start streaming or downloading a large file, we throttle them down. 
Most are at 768.
When the stream or download stops, they go back to wide open throttle. 
Customers love it.

- Original Message - 
From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Chuck,

 What speeds do you sell to your end customers at 128:1 oversub?

 (I am assuming that you never really go this high!) :)

 ryan

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:33 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 That is pretty much what we do on Motorola Canopy.
 20 MHz channels.
 128:1 (or less) over subscription
 10 Mbps
 First AP and BH would be in the $5K range
 Second AP would be in the $2K range.  (depending on antennas etc).

 We are waiting to see what the OFDM product will do.  Smaller channels.
 More speed.
 (more money too).

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:17 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel?

 Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription on 
 say

 a
 10 meg client?

 What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)?

 What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)?


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message - 
 From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Chuck,

 Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products.

 Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz
 channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also, there
 are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the
 licenseholders are.



 -

 Jeff

 On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote:

 Patrick,
 Excellent point on channel sizes!
 So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? ,
 5.X, 3.6
 (we are in a big exclusion zone.)
 I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers.
 Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes?
 Would it use the same channel sizes?
 Would it help with range and capacity?
 Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent?
 In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls?


 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
 great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly.
 Meanwhile, Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
 was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the
 expectations. I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
 greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message -
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Randy Cosby




What do you use for throttling? Cisco policing? Mikrotik? 


Chuck McCown wrote:

  We sell 10.2 Mbps burst service.  And most of them actually get that speed.
If they start streaming or downloading a large file, we throttle them down. 
Most are at 768.
When the stream or download stops, they go back to wide open throttle. 
Customers love it.

- Original Message - 
From: "D. Ryan Spott" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "'WISPA General List'" wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


  
  
Chuck,

What speeds do you sell to your end customers at 128:1 oversub?

(I am assuming that you never really go this high!) :)

ryan

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:33 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

That is pretty much what we do on Motorola Canopy.
20 MHz channels.
128:1 (or less) over subscription
10 Mbps
First AP and BH would be in the $5K range
Second AP would be in the $2K range.  (depending on antennas etc).

We are waiting to see what the OFDM product will do.  Smaller channels.
More speed.
(more money too).

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future




  Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel?

Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription on 
say
  


  a
10 meg client?

What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)?

What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)?


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: "Jeff Booher" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


  
  
Chuck,

Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products.

Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz
channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also, there
are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the
licenseholders are.



-

Jeff

On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote:



  Patrick,
Excellent point on channel sizes!
So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? ,
5.X, 3.6
(we are in a big exclusion zone.)
I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers.
Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes?
Would it use the same channel sizes?
Would it help with range and capacity?
Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent?
In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls?


Chuck Profito
209-988-7388
CV-ACCESS, INC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Providing High Speed Broadband
to Rural Central California
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On
Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

Patrick,
If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
2 miles los?
2 miles wooded?
5 m los?
5 m nlos?
10 m los?
10 m nlos
??
Is this a fair question?

Chuck Profito
209-988-7388
CV-ACCESS, INC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Providing High Speed Broadband
to Rural Central California
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
great
headaches. The stupid "70 miles 30 mbps" was the most absurd bit of
hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly.
Meanwhile, Mo
Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
was
trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the
expectations. I
did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
greatest
near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

Patrick

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

- Original Message -
From: "Patrick Leary" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


  
  
I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly

  
  on
  
  
the "WiMAX is dead" part -- 

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Chuck McCown
It is built into the Motorola Canopy platform.  The AP and the SM do the 
throttling.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Randy Cosby 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 2:48 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


  What do you use for throttling?  Cisco policing?  Mikrotik?  


  Chuck McCown wrote: 
We sell 10.2 Mbps burst service.  And most of them actually get that speed.
If they start streaming or downloading a large file, we throttle them down. 
Most are at 768.
When the stream or download stops, they go back to wide open throttle. 
Customers love it.

- Original Message - 
From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


  Chuck,

What speeds do you sell to your end customers at 128:1 oversub?

(I am assuming that you never really go this high!) :)

ryan

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:33 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

That is pretty much what we do on Motorola Canopy.
20 MHz channels.
128:1 (or less) over subscription
10 Mbps
First AP and BH would be in the $5K range
Second AP would be in the $2K range.  (depending on antennas etc).

We are waiting to see what the OFDM product will do.  Smaller channels.
More speed.
(more money too).

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel?

Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription on 
say
  a
10 meg client?

What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)?

What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)?


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


  Chuck,

Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products.

Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz
channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also, there
are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the
licenseholders are.



-

Jeff

On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote:

Patrick,
Excellent point on channel sizes!
So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? ,
5.X, 3.6
(we are in a big exclusion zone.)
I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers.
Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes?
Would it use the same channel sizes?
Would it help with range and capacity?
Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent?
In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls?


Chuck Profito
209-988-7388
CV-ACCESS, INC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Providing High Speed Broadband
to Rural Central California
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

Patrick,
If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
2 miles los?
2 miles wooded?
5 m los?
5 m nlos?
10 m los?
10 m nlos
??
Is this a fair question?

Chuck Profito
209-988-7388
CV-ACCESS, INC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Providing High Speed Broadband
to Rural Central California
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
great
headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly.
Meanwhile, Mo
Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
was
trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the
expectations. I
did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
greatest
near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

Patrick

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

- Original Message -
From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


  I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly
on
  the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date

Re: [WISPA] Future - a brief explanation on diversity

2008-04-22 Thread Patrick Leary
Mike, et al,

As Jeff implied about coverage (and costs), with WiMAX it is all about
diversity so let me try to explain it a bit. It is not so simple as one
AP or two. In WiMAX you have IDUs and ODUs. In our case, one IDU can
serve many different configurations since it have 4 ports on the IDU and
supports up to 4th order diversity. So here is what each level of
diversity actually looks like in terms of configuration:

Single channel, no diversity -
This is the basic configuration and the one WISPs have always deployed.
Each AU-IDU connects to one ODU serving a single sector with a
directional antenna.

AU/IDU ODUSector
+ +   +
+   +   --+ O +---+   +
+ O ---/  +   +   \---+ O +
+ O + + O +   +   +
+ O + +   +   +
+ O + +
+   +
+


Multiple channels per AU, no diversity - Can be like above or two or
three or four channels. Example shows four channels -

AU/IDU ODU 1 Sector antenna 1
Ch.1-4
+ +   +
+   +   --+ O +---+   +
+ O ---/  +   +   \---+ O +
+ O +-\   + O +   +   +
+ O +-\\  +   +   +
+ O +-\\\ +
+   +  \\\--ODU 2sector antenna 2
+   \\
 \\--ODU 3sector antenna 3
  \
   \--ODU 4sector antenna 4


Second order diversity - One sector with space diversity. Two AU-ODU
channels 1  2. Same frequency and transmit power. Same AU-IDU share a
common MAC and modem.

AU/IDU ODU 1  Antenna 1
Ch.12Sector 1  
+ +   +
+   +   --- O +   +
+ O ---/  +   +   \ O +   
+ O --\   + O +   +   +
+ O +  \  +   +   +
+ O +   \ +
+   +\   both sectors cover same area
+ \ ))   so both function as part of one
sector \ ODU 2  Antenna 2
\Sector 1
 \+   +
  - O +   +
  +   +   \ O +   
  + O +   +   +
  +   +   +
  +

Fourth order diversity - Single sector. Single AU-IDU with 4 ODUs. Space
and polarization diversities using dual polarization slant antennas.
Channels 1 and 2 form one pair, channels 3 and 4 form one pair. Same
frequency and transmit power are set for all four ODUs. Common MAC and
modem.

AU/IDU ODU 1   Antenna 1
Ch.1-4 Sector 1 (dual pole)
+ + +
+   +   --- O   +   +  
+ O ---/  +   +   \-- O +
+ O --\   + O +  /--- O +
+ O --\\  + /   +   +  
+ O --\\\  /+   both dual pole
antennas
+   +  \\\--ODU 2/Sector 2  Antenna 2)  function together in
a
+   \\ (dual pole)  single sector 
 \\--ODU 3/Sector 1---\   +
  \\  +   +
   \--ODU 4/Sector 2--\ \-- O +
   \--- O +
  +   +
  +


Patrick Leary
AVP, Market Development
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:18 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel?

Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription on
say a 
10 meg client?

What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)?

What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)?


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Chuck,

 Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products.

 Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz
 channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also, there
 are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the
 licenseholders are.



 -

 Jeff

 On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote:

 Patrick,
 Excellent point on channel sizes!
 So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? ,
 5.X, 3.6
 (we are in a big exclusion zone.)
 I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers.
 Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes?
 Would it use the same channel sizes?
 Would it help with range and capacity?
 Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent?
 In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls?


 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO
 Sent: Monday, April 21

Re: [WISPA] Future - a brief explanation on diversity

2008-04-22 Thread Patrick Leary
So what does all the below mean in practice? Well, a typical
arrangement, at least for our customers, in the 2.5 GHz band is 3
sectors of 4th order diversity. That means one chassis with 3 blades.
Each of the blades has 4 ports. All 4 ports are used. That translates
into three AU IDUs and 12 ODUs and 6 antennas dual pole antennas that
comprise the 3 sectors.

Now you may be getting a sense of the complexity and why the question of
How much for one AP to one sector? is not really applicable since one
4-port AU can feed a complete cell with 4 90 degree sectors, but that
same AU can scale to feed all its channels and capacity into a single
sector.

With each added level of diversity, the translation is better link
budgets (less cells) with increased capacity. Fourth order diversity
over no diversity adds 12 dB up and 6 dB down in terms of improved link
budgets. This is not generally used to increase range so much as it is
to increase link reliability at range.

Our expectation is that our 3.65 GHz deployments will mostly have a
standard configuration of 3 sectors with 2nd order diversity, except in
a high urban deployment (such as a Tower Stream type model), which is
more likely to have 4th order diversity to improve the range and number
of self-install CPE that can be deployed.

Patrick Leary
AVP, Market Development
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:05 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future - a brief explanation on diversity

Mike, et al,

As Jeff implied about coverage (and costs), with WiMAX it is all about
diversity so let me try to explain it a bit. It is not so simple as one
AP or two. In WiMAX you have IDUs and ODUs. In our case, one IDU can
serve many different configurations since it have 4 ports on the IDU and
supports up to 4th order diversity. So here is what each level of
diversity actually looks like in terms of configuration:

Single channel, no diversity -
This is the basic configuration and the one WISPs have always deployed.
Each AU-IDU connects to one ODU serving a single sector with a
directional antenna.

AU/IDU ODUSector
+ +   +
+   +   --+ O +---+   +
+ O ---/  +   +   \---+ O +
+ O + + O +   +   +
+ O + +   +   +
+ O + +
+   +
+


Multiple channels per AU, no diversity - Can be like above or two or
three or four channels. Example shows four channels -

AU/IDU ODU 1 Sector antenna 1
Ch.1-4
+ +   +
+   +   --+ O +---+   +
+ O ---/  +   +   \---+ O +
+ O +-\   + O +   +   +
+ O +-\\  +   +   +
+ O +-\\\ +
+   +  \\\--ODU 2sector antenna 2
+   \\
 \\--ODU 3sector antenna 3
  \
   \--ODU 4sector antenna 4


Second order diversity - One sector with space diversity. Two AU-ODU
channels 1  2. Same frequency and transmit power. Same AU-IDU share a
common MAC and modem.

AU/IDU ODU 1  Antenna 1
Ch.12Sector 1  
+ +   +
+   +   --- O +   +
+ O ---/  +   +   \ O +   
+ O --\   + O +   +   +
+ O +  \  +   +   +
+ O +   \ +
+   +\   both sectors cover same area
+ \ ))   so both function as part of one
sector \ ODU 2  Antenna 2
\Sector 1
 \+   +
  - O +   +
  +   +   \ O +   
  + O +   +   +
  +   +   +
  +

Fourth order diversity - Single sector. Single AU-IDU with 4 ODUs. Space
and polarization diversities using dual polarization slant antennas.
Channels 1 and 2 form one pair, channels 3 and 4 form one pair. Same
frequency and transmit power are set for all four ODUs. Common MAC and
modem.

AU/IDU ODU 1   Antenna 1
Ch.1-4 Sector 1 (dual pole)
+ + +
+   +   --- O   +   +  
+ O ---/  +   +   \-- O +
+ O --\   + O +  /--- O +
+ O --\\  + /   +   +  
+ O --\\\  /+   both dual pole
antennas
+   +  \\\--ODU 2/Sector 2  Antenna 2)  function together in
a
+   \\ (dual pole)  single sector 
 \\--ODU 3/Sector 1---\   +
  \\  +   +
   \--ODU 4/Sector 2--\ \-- O +
   \--- O +
  +   +
  +


Patrick Leary
AVP, Market Development
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:18 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject

Re: [WISPA] Future - a brief explanation on diversity

2008-04-22 Thread Patrick Leary
I have made a brief ppt that illustrates the examples below much more
clearly. It has no product info, no messaging and no detailed
explanations...it is just a pictorial representation of the below type
of diversity. If you want it, hit me OFFLIST.

Patrick

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:26 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future - a brief explanation on diversity

So what does all the below mean in practice? Well, a typical
arrangement, at least for our customers, in the 2.5 GHz band is 3
sectors of 4th order diversity. That means one chassis with 3 blades.
Each of the blades has 4 ports. All 4 ports are used. That translates
into three AU IDUs and 12 ODUs and 6 antennas dual pole antennas that
comprise the 3 sectors.

Now you may be getting a sense of the complexity and why the question of
How much for one AP to one sector? is not really applicable since one
4-port AU can feed a complete cell with 4 90 degree sectors, but that
same AU can scale to feed all its channels and capacity into a single
sector.

With each added level of diversity, the translation is better link
budgets (less cells) with increased capacity. Fourth order diversity
over no diversity adds 12 dB up and 6 dB down in terms of improved link
budgets. This is not generally used to increase range so much as it is
to increase link reliability at range.

Our expectation is that our 3.65 GHz deployments will mostly have a
standard configuration of 3 sectors with 2nd order diversity, except in
a high urban deployment (such as a Tower Stream type model), which is
more likely to have 4th order diversity to improve the range and number
of self-install CPE that can be deployed.

Patrick Leary
AVP, Market Development
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:05 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future - a brief explanation on diversity

Mike, et al,

As Jeff implied about coverage (and costs), with WiMAX it is all about
diversity so let me try to explain it a bit. It is not so simple as one
AP or two. In WiMAX you have IDUs and ODUs. In our case, one IDU can
serve many different configurations since it have 4 ports on the IDU and
supports up to 4th order diversity. So here is what each level of
diversity actually looks like in terms of configuration:

Single channel, no diversity -
This is the basic configuration and the one WISPs have always deployed.
Each AU-IDU connects to one ODU serving a single sector with a
directional antenna.

AU/IDU ODUSector
+ +   +
+   +   --+ O +---+   +
+ O ---/  +   +   \---+ O +
+ O + + O +   +   +
+ O + +   +   +
+ O + +
+   +
+


Multiple channels per AU, no diversity - Can be like above or two or
three or four channels. Example shows four channels -

AU/IDU ODU 1 Sector antenna 1
Ch.1-4
+ +   +
+   +   --+ O +---+   +
+ O ---/  +   +   \---+ O +
+ O +-\   + O +   +   +
+ O +-\\  +   +   +
+ O +-\\\ +
+   +  \\\--ODU 2sector antenna 2
+   \\
 \\--ODU 3sector antenna 3
  \
   \--ODU 4sector antenna 4


Second order diversity - One sector with space diversity. Two AU-ODU
channels 1  2. Same frequency and transmit power. Same AU-IDU share a
common MAC and modem.

AU/IDU ODU 1  Antenna 1
Ch.12Sector 1  
+ +   +
+   +   --- O +   +
+ O ---/  +   +   \ O +   
+ O --\   + O +   +   +
+ O +  \  +   +   +
+ O +   \ +
+   +\   both sectors cover same area
+ \ ))   so both function as part of one
sector \ ODU 2  Antenna 2
\Sector 1
 \+   +
  - O +   +
  +   +   \ O +   
  + O +   +   +
  +   +   +
  +

Fourth order diversity - Single sector. Single AU-IDU with 4 ODUs. Space
and polarization diversities using dual polarization slant antennas.
Channels 1 and 2 form one pair, channels 3 and 4 form one pair. Same
frequency and transmit power are set for all four ODUs. Common MAC and
modem.

AU/IDU ODU 1   Antenna 1
Ch.1-4 Sector 1 (dual pole)
+ + +
+   +   --- O   +   +  
+ O ---/  +   +   \-- O +
+ O --\   + O +  /--- O +
+ O --\\  + /   +   +  
+ O --\\\  /+   both dual pole
antennas
+   +  \\\--ODU 2/Sector 2  Antenna 2)  function together in
a
+   \\ (dual pole)  single sector 
 \\--ODU 3/Sector 1

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Well Mike, the way I see it is that the sky has been falling my entire time 
as an ISP (over a decade now).

WiMax is still a joke in the market place.

3G is too slow and too expensive.

700 is not deployed in any level that matters and doesn't look like it will 
be any time soon.

Cable is in trouble because they are dying under the load of the high end 
users they they keep getting.  They need all of the capacity they can come 
up with for HDTV channels but broadband is taking up too much space on the 
coax.  They also JUST put in their networks.  The big companies aren't 
structured to reinvest in new hardware every few years.  I'd say that they 
will continue to grow and continue to piss off their base.  I'm not worried 
about cable.

As for ATT and Verizon?  People already hate the service and prices they 
have, so far I can sell against them.

Fiber is cool, I have FTTH customers.  But man is it expensive!  There's 
just no way to ever make the investment back at today's pricing levels.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:44 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Future


 What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years?

 ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of town?)
 Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of town?)
 Cable will be using DOCSIS 3
 3G will gain more steam
 WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market
 700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the big guys


 My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what other's opinions are.

 My thought is that the big guys mentioned above will continue to avoid the 
 niche that we currently serve and we'll be able to provide better services 
 with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz, possibly TV 
 white spaces) and WiMAX.


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
I just got back a customer that left us for sat service.  Took less than a 
year for him to come back (and he left because he got mad at me, not because 
of the service so you know the service had to really suck).
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Tom Warfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future



 You forgot satellite which is picking up steam.


 Honestly.

 Now is the time to sell! (hence one of the reasons I sold last month.)

 Unless your servicing very rural area with almost no population.




 -Original Message-
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:44 PM
 To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Future

 What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years?

 ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of town?)
 Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of town?)
 Cable will be using DOCSIS 3
 3G will gain more steam
 WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market
 700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the big guys


 My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what other's opinions are.

 My thought is that the big guys mentioned above will continue to avoid the 
 niche that we currently serve and we'll be able to provide better services 
 with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz, possibly TV 
 white spaces) and WiMAX.


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 


 [The entire original message is not included]


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Mike Hammett
You're doing all those (including price) on Canopy?  What's the net 
throughput available on Canopy?

I'm not dissatisfied with my Mikrotik system at all, but more spectrally 
efficient gear is always good, especially on new deployments.


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 That is pretty much what we do on Motorola Canopy.
 20 MHz channels.
 128:1 (or less) over subscription
 10 Mbps
 First AP and BH would be in the $5K range
 Second AP would be in the $2K range.  (depending on antennas etc).

 We are waiting to see what the OFDM product will do.  Smaller channels.
 More speed.
 (more money too).

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:17 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel?

 Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription on 
 say
 a
 10 meg client?

 What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)?

 What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)?


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message - 
 From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Chuck,

 Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products.

 Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz
 channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also, there
 are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the
 licenseholders are.



 -

 Jeff

 On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote:

 Patrick,
 Excellent point on channel sizes!
 So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? ,
 5.X, 3.6
 (we are in a big exclusion zone.)
 I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers.
 Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes?
 Would it use the same channel sizes?
 Would it help with range and capacity?
 Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent?
 In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls?


 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
 great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly.
 Meanwhile, Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
 was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the
 expectations. I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
 greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message -
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and
 technologies but they will be a premium

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-22 Thread Mike Hammett
oh, I was meaning a regular 10 meg service.


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 We sell 10.2 Mbps burst service.  And most of them actually get that 
 speed.
 If they start streaming or downloading a large file, we throttle them 
 down.
 Most are at 768.
 When the stream or download stops, they go back to wide open throttle.
 Customers love it.

 - Original Message - 
 From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 2:41 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Chuck,

 What speeds do you sell to your end customers at 128:1 oversub?

 (I am assuming that you never really go this high!) :)

 ryan

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:33 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 That is pretty much what we do on Motorola Canopy.
 20 MHz channels.
 128:1 (or less) over subscription
 10 Mbps
 First AP and BH would be in the $5K range
 Second AP would be in the $2K range.  (depending on antennas etc).

 We are waiting to see what the OFDM product will do.  Smaller channels.
 More speed.
 (more money too).

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:17 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel?

 Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription on
 say

 a
 10 meg client?

 What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)?

 What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)?


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message - 
 From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Chuck,

 Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products.

 Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz
 channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also, there
 are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the
 licenseholders are.



 -

 Jeff

 On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote:

 Patrick,
 Excellent point on channel sizes!
 So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? ,
 5.X, 3.6
 (we are in a big exclusion zone.)
 I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers.
 Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes?
 Would it use the same channel sizes?
 Would it help with range and capacity?
 Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent?
 In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls?


 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
 great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly.
 Meanwhile, Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
 was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the
 expectations. I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
 greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message -
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Travis Johnson




Hi,

A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge
company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test radio
that we play with. We have their "up to 3meg premium service" and we
barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months).

Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to
roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was pretty
proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per
city... and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their
biggest had 120,000).

Travis
Microserv

Chuck McCown - 2 wrote:

  WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true but 
emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and 
technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to 
compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will never live 
up to the hype.

All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. 
Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value driven 
customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader for 
fixed wireless. technologies.

700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell 
spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts of 
data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the 
antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain than 
the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also there 
will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV 
stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't know if 
they get a special dispensation or what.

All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That will 
erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and capital 
intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks prefer 
to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer service 
and support will always retain the customer.

The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and drop 
the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base from 
DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as they 
could.  They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash situation 
from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us) from the 
other.

In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web development, 
OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell opportunities. 
All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA HDTV.  OTA 
HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the value 
conscious customer.  Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and help 
folks get their analog TVs converted over.  Less work than a WISP install 
and you will lock in the customer even more with superior customer service. 
You can rent them the gear for $5/month and make it a low cost package.

In 5 years hopefully your investment will be a cash cow and you will ride 
this horse until it dies.  Perhaps other technologies will come along for us 
to deploy but I see our segment strong for the next 5 years.  In 10 years, 
if we have not diversified, we will probably be hurting.

Oh, and satellite ISP will never do much.  Pesky physics.

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "WISPA List" wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:44 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Future


  
  
What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years?

ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of town?)
Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of town?)
Cable will be using DOCSIS 3
3G will gain more steam
WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market
700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the big guys


My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what other's opinions are.

My thought is that the big guys mentioned above will continue to avoid the 
niche that we currently serve and we'll be able to provide better services 
with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz, possibly TV 
white spaces) and WiMAX.


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


  
  



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Gino Villarini
Is that 2.5 Wimax gear?

 

Gino A. Villarini 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:36 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 

Hi,

A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge
company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test radio
that we play with. We have their up to 3meg premium service and we
barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months).

Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to
roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was pretty
proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per city...
and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had
120,000).

Travis
Microserv

Chuck McCown - 2 wrote: 

WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
but 
emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and 
technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to 
compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will never
live 
up to the hype.
 
All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. 
Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
driven 
customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader for

fixed wireless. technologies.
 
700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell 
spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts of 
data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the 
antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
than 
the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
there 
will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV 
stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
know if 
they get a special dispensation or what.
 
All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That will 
erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and capital 
intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
prefer 
to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
service 
and support will always retain the customer.
 
The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and
drop 
the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base
from 
DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as
they 
could.  They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash
situation 
from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us) from
the 
other.
 
In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web
development, 
OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell opportunities.

All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA HDTV.
OTA 
HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the value 
conscious customer.  Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and help 
folks get their analog TVs converted over.  Less work than a WISP
install 
and you will lock in the customer even more with superior customer
service. 
You can rent them the gear for $5/month and make it a low cost package.
 
In 5 years hopefully your investment will be a cash cow and you will
ride 
this horse until it dies.  Perhaps other technologies will come along
for us 
to deploy but I see our segment strong for the next 5 years.  In 10
years, 
if we have not diversified, we will probably be hurting.
 
Oh, and satellite ISP will never do much.  Pesky physics.
 
- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org 
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:44 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Future
 
 
  

What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5
years?
 
ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of
town?)
Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of
town?)
Cable will be using DOCSIS 3
3G will gain more steam
WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market
700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the
big guys
 
 
My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what other's opinions
are.
 
My thought is that the big guys mentioned above will continue to
avoid the 
niche that we currently serve and we'll be able to provide
better services 
with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz,
possibly TV 
white spaces) and WiMAX.
 
 
--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Travis Johnson
Yes.

Gino Villarini wrote:
 Is that 2.5 Wimax gear?

  

 Gino A. Villarini 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145 

 

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Travis Johnson
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:36 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

  

 Hi,

 A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge
 company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test radio
 that we play with. We have their up to 3meg premium service and we
 barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months).

 Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to
 roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was pretty
 proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per city...
 and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had
 120,000).

 Travis
 Microserv

 Chuck McCown - 2 wrote: 

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but 
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and 
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to 
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will never
 live 
 up to the hype.
  
 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. 
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven 
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader for

 fixed wireless. technologies.
  
 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell 
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts of 
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the 
 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than 
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
 there 
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV 
 stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
 know if 
 they get a special dispensation or what.
  
 All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That will 
 erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and capital 
 intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
 prefer 
 to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
 service 
 and support will always retain the customer.
  
 The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and
 drop 
 the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base
 from 
 DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as
 they 
 could.  They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash
 situation 
 from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us) from
 the 
 other.
  
 In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web
 development, 
 OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell opportunities.

 All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA HDTV.
 OTA 
 HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the value 
 conscious customer.  Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and help 
 folks get their analog TVs converted over.  Less work than a WISP
 install 
 and you will lock in the customer even more with superior customer
 service. 
 You can rent them the gear for $5/month and make it a low cost package.
  
 In 5 years hopefully your investment will be a cash cow and you will
 ride 
 this horse until it dies.  Perhaps other technologies will come along
 for us 
 to deploy but I see our segment strong for the next 5 years.  In 10
 years, 
 if we have not diversified, we will probably be hurting.
  
 Oh, and satellite ISP will never do much.  Pesky physics.
  
 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org 
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:44 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Future
  
  
   

   What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5
 years?

   ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of
 town?)
   Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of
 town?)
   Cable will be using DOCSIS 3
   3G will gain more steam
   WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market
   700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the
 big guys


   My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what other's opinions
 are.

   My thought is that the big guys mentioned above will continue to
 avoid the 
   niche that we currently serve and we'll be able to provide
 better services 
   with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz,
 possibly TV 
   white spaces) and WiMAX

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Scott Reed
Are they doing self-install?
Is there a contract required?

Travis Johnson wrote:
 Yes.

 Gino Villarini wrote:
   
 Is that 2.5 Wimax gear?

  

 Gino A. Villarini 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145 

 

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Travis Johnson
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:36 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

  

 Hi,

 A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge
 company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test radio
 that we play with. We have their up to 3meg premium service and we
 barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months).

 Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to
 roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was pretty
 proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per city...
 and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had
 120,000).

 Travis
 Microserv

 Chuck McCown - 2 wrote: 

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but 
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and 
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to 
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will never
 live 
 up to the hype.
  
 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. 
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven 
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader for

 fixed wireless. technologies.
  
 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell 
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts of 
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the 
 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than 
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
 there 
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV 
 stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
 know if 
 they get a special dispensation or what.
  
 All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That will 
 erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and capital 
 intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
 prefer 
 to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
 service 
 and support will always retain the customer.
  
 The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and
 drop 
 the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base
 from 
 DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as
 they 
 could.  They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash
 situation 
 from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us) from
 the 
 other.
  
 In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web
 development, 
 OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell opportunities.

 All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA HDTV.
 OTA 
 HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the value 
 conscious customer.  Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and help 
 folks get their analog TVs converted over.  Less work than a WISP
 install 
 and you will lock in the customer even more with superior customer
 service. 
 You can rent them the gear for $5/month and make it a low cost package.
  
 In 5 years hopefully your investment will be a cash cow and you will
 ride 
 this horse until it dies.  Perhaps other technologies will come along
 for us 
 to deploy but I see our segment strong for the next 5 years.  In 10
 years, 
 if we have not diversified, we will probably be hurting.
  
 Oh, and satellite ISP will never do much.  Pesky physics.
  
 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org 
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:44 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Future
  
  
   

  What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5
 years?
   
  ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of
 town?)
  Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of
 town?)
  Cable will be using DOCSIS 3
  3G will gain more steam
  WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market
  700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the
 big guys
   
   
  My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what other's opinions
 are.
   
  My thought is that the big guys mentioned above will continue to
 avoid the 
  niche that we currently serve and we'll be able to provide
 better services 
  with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz,
 possibly TV

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Travis Johnson




http://www.digitalbridgecommunications.com

Scott Reed wrote:

  Are they doing self-install?
Is there a contract required?

Travis Johnson wrote:
  
  
Yes.

Gino Villarini wrote:
  


  Is that 2.5 Wimax gear?

 

Gino A. Villarini 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:36 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 

Hi,

A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge
company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test radio
that we play with. We have their "up to 3meg premium service" and we
barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months).

Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to
roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was pretty
proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per city...
and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had
120,000).

Travis
Microserv

Chuck McCown - 2 wrote: 

WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
but 
emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and 
technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to 
compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will never
live 
up to the hype.
 
All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. 
Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
driven 
customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader for

fixed wireless. technologies.
 
700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell 
spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts of 
data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the 
antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
than 
the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
there 
will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV 
stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
know if 
they get a special dispensation or what.
 
All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That will 
erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and capital 
intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
prefer 
to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
service 
and support will always retain the customer.
 
The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and
drop 
the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base
from 
DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as
they 
could.  They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash
situation 
from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us) from
the 
other.
 
In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web
development, 
OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell opportunities.

All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA HDTV.
OTA 
HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the value 
conscious customer.  Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and help 
folks get their analog TVs converted over.  Less work than a WISP
install 
and you will lock in the customer even more with superior customer
service. 
You can rent them the gear for $5/month and make it a low cost package.
 
In 5 years hopefully your investment will be a cash cow and you will
ride 
this horse until it dies.  Perhaps other technologies will come along
for us 
to deploy but I see our segment strong for the next 5 years.  In 10
years, 
if we have not diversified, we will probably be hurting.
 
Oh, and satellite ISP will never do much.  Pesky physics.
 
- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: "WISPA List" wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org 
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:44 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Future
 
 
  

	What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5
years?
	 
	ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of
town?)
	Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of
town?)
	Cable will be using DOCSIS 3
	3G will gain more steam
	WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market
	700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the
big guys
	 
	 
	My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what other's opinions
are.
	 
	My thought is that the big guys mentioned above will continue to
avoid the 
	niche that we currently serve and we'll be able to provide
better services 
	with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz,
possibly TV 
	white spaces) and WiMAX.
	 
	 
	--
	Mike 

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Mark Nash
This depends on your market and how you're running your business.  If you've 
made decisions that were risky and didn't pan out, and you're getting phone 
calls left and right and your kids don't see you... Sell and have a better 
life.

For those of us who are working hard but not in crisis mode all the 
time...There will be a time to sell, and most likely it will be when you're 
tired of running your business.

You'll have ups  downs, but don't listen to the fear inside your head. 
Install your customers and KEEP THEM HAPPY.  In other words, don't give them 
a reason to CONSIDER other options.  Yes, there will be that 5% chomping at 
the bit for more bandwidth and will leave you in half a heartbeat once a 
faster service is available to them...let them go.  And don't worry about 
them again.  Reclaim their equipment and charge an install fee for it to 
someone else (if that's what you do).

I remember...not a week after we started our businessin 2001...We noticed 
the Starband (satellite provider) web site.  And we thought Well, that 
blows our service if everyone can get satellite.  Didn't happen.  When 
Qwest came into town we thought well there goes all of our 'in-town' 
customers.  Didn't happen.  Then Comcast came into town with their 
6megs...same thing.

I do believe that those who focus on rural areas (as we do) will almost 
always have less churn, but this comes at a price of growing slower unless 
you expand your wireless footprint.

Even with the expanding markets, you can still have value to your customers, 
and service your niche, at all times.

Mark Nash
UnwiredWest
78 Centennial Loop, Suite E
Eugene, OR 97401
http://www.unwiredwest.com
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:44 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Future


 What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years?

 ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of town?)
 Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of town?)
 Cable will be using DOCSIS 3
 3G will gain more steam
 WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market
 700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the big guys


 My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what other's opinions are.

 My thought is that the big guys mentioned above will continue to avoid the 
 niche that we currently serve and we'll be able to provide better services 
 with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz, possibly TV 
 white spaces) and WiMAX.


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 






WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Patrick Leary
Actually, most of that $40M would have been for spectrum acquisition,
which in the accounting world is marked as an asset. They also
constructed a major NOC center. The wireless hardware is a small
minority of the spending.

 

Patrick 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 6:36 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 

Hi,

A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge
company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test radio
that we play with. We have their up to 3meg premium service and we
barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months).

Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to
roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was pretty
proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per city...
and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had
120,000).

Travis
Microserv

Chuck McCown - 2 wrote: 

WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
but 
emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and 
technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to 
compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will never
live 
up to the hype.
 
All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. 
Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
driven 
customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader for

fixed wireless. technologies.
 
700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell 
spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts of 
data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the 
antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
than 
the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
there 
will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV 
stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
know if 
they get a special dispensation or what.
 
All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That will 
erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and capital 
intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
prefer 
to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
service 
and support will always retain the customer.
 
The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and
drop 
the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base
from 
DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as
they 
could.  They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash
situation 
from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us) from
the 
other.
 
In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web
development, 
OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell opportunities.

All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA HDTV.
OTA 
HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the value 
conscious customer.  Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and help 
folks get their analog TVs converted over.  Less work than a WISP
install 
and you will lock in the customer even more with superior customer
service. 
You can rent them the gear for $5/month and make it a low cost package.
 
In 5 years hopefully your investment will be a cash cow and you will
ride 
this horse until it dies.  Perhaps other technologies will come along
for us 
to deploy but I see our segment strong for the next 5 years.  In 10
years, 
if we have not diversified, we will probably be hurting.
 
Oh, and satellite ISP will never do much.  Pesky physics.
 
- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org 
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:44 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Future
 
 
  

What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5
years?
 
ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of
town?)
Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of
town?)
Cable will be using DOCSIS 3
3G will gain more steam
WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market
700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the
big guys
 
 
My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what other's opinions
are.
 
My thought is that the big guys mentioned above will continue to
avoid the 
niche that we currently serve and we'll be able to provide
better services 
with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz,
possibly TV 
white spaces) and WiMAX.
 
 
--
Mike Hammett

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Patrick Leary
I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly on
the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

Patrick

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
but 
emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and 
technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to 
compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will never
live 
up to the hype.

All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. 
Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
driven 
customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader for

fixed wireless. technologies.

700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell 
spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts of 
data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the 
antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
than 
the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
there 
will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV 
stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
know if 
they get a special dispensation or what.

All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That will 
erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and capital 
intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
prefer 
to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
service 
and support will always retain the customer.

The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and
drop 
the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base
from 
DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as
they 
could.  They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash
situation 
from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us) from
the 
other.

In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web
development, 
OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell opportunities.

All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA HDTV.
OTA 
HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the value 
conscious customer.  Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and help 
folks get their analog TVs converted over.  Less work than a WISP
install 
and you will lock in the customer even more with superior customer
service. 
You can rent them the gear for $5/month and make it a low cost package.

In 5 years hopefully your investment will be a cash cow and you will
ride 
this horse until it dies.  Perhaps other technologies will come along
for us 
to deploy but I see our segment strong for the next 5 years.  In 10
years, 
if we have not diversified, we will probably be hurting.

Oh, and satellite ISP will never do much.  Pesky physics.

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:44 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Future


 What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years?

 ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of town?)
 Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of town?)
 Cable will be using DOCSIS 3
 3G will gain more steam
 WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market
 700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the big
guys


 My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what other's opinions are.

 My thought is that the big guys mentioned above will continue to avoid
the 
 niche that we currently serve and we'll be able to provide better
services 
 with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz, possibly TV 
 white spaces) and WiMAX.


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com






 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/




 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Travis Johnson
Regardless... my point is they have invested $40M and I am offering 
higher speeds, for less money, with less cost per CPE and AP... and I 
have 10x the coverage they do in my market.

The GM even mentioned and if Sprint or Clearwire were to come to town 
with a check, we would definitely look at it... which means, once 
again, they are not in it for the long haul... and their customer 
service, and quality of service, will show that the longer they are in 
business. They are looking for the buyout to take their money (and 
profit) and run.

Travis
Microserv

Patrick Leary wrote:
 Actually, most of that $40M would have been for spectrum acquisition,
 which in the accounting world is marked as an asset. They also
 constructed a major NOC center. The wireless hardware is a small
 minority of the spending.

  

 Patrick 

 

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Travis Johnson
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 6:36 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

  

 Hi,

 A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge
 company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test radio
 that we play with. We have their up to 3meg premium service and we
 barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months).

 Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to
 roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was pretty
 proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per city...
 and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had
 120,000).

 Travis
 Microserv

 Chuck McCown - 2 wrote: 

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but 
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and 
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to 
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will never
 live 
 up to the hype.
  
 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. 
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven 
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader for

 fixed wireless. technologies.
  
 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell 
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts of 
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the 
 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than 
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
 there 
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV 
 stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
 know if 
 they get a special dispensation or what.
  
 All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That will 
 erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and capital 
 intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
 prefer 
 to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
 service 
 and support will always retain the customer.
  
 The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and
 drop 
 the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base
 from 
 DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as
 they 
 could.  They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash
 situation 
 from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us) from
 the 
 other.
  
 In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web
 development, 
 OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell opportunities.

 All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA HDTV.
 OTA 
 HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the value 
 conscious customer.  Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and help 
 folks get their analog TVs converted over.  Less work than a WISP
 install 
 and you will lock in the customer even more with superior customer
 service. 
 You can rent them the gear for $5/month and make it a low cost package.
  
 In 5 years hopefully your investment will be a cash cow and you will
 ride 
 this horse until it dies.  Perhaps other technologies will come along
 for us 
 to deploy but I see our segment strong for the next 5 years.  In 10
 years, 
 if we have not diversified, we will probably be hurting.
  
 Oh, and satellite ISP will never do much.  Pesky physics.
  
 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org 
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:44 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Future
  
  
   

   What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5
 years?

   ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of
 town?)
   Verizon is expanding FiOS

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Chuck McCown
WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

- Original Message - 
From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts of
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the
 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
 there
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV
 stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
 know if
 they get a special dispensation or what.

 All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That will
 erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and capital
 intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
 prefer
 to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
 service
 and support will always retain the customer.

 The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and
 drop
 the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base
 from
 DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as
 they
 could.  They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash
 situation
 from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us) from
 the
 other.

 In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web
 development,
 OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell opportunities.

 All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA HDTV.
 OTA
 HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the value
 conscious customer.  Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and help
 folks get their analog TVs converted over.  Less work than a WISP
 install
 and you will lock in the customer even more with superior customer
 service.
 You can rent them the gear for $5/month and make it a low cost package.

 In 5 years hopefully your investment will be a cash cow and you will
 ride
 this horse until it dies.  Perhaps other technologies will come along
 for us
 to deploy but I see our segment strong for the next 5 years.  In 10
 years,
 if we have not diversified, we will probably be hurting.

 Oh, and satellite ISP will never do much.  Pesky physics.

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:44 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Future


 What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years?

 ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of town?)
 Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of town?)
 Cable will be using DOCSIS 3
 3G will gain more steam
 WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market
 700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the big
 guys


 My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what other's opinions are.

 My thought is that the big guys mentioned above will continue to avoid
 the
 niche that we currently serve and we'll be able to provide better
 services
 with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz, possibly TV
 white spaces) and WiMAX.


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com




 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Patrick Leary
Just a different model Travis. You have a good business that continues
to scale and you have a strong local connection. What DBC is not evil
and they are doing extraordinarily well so far. They have a model that
is working for them.

The best point is that you and they prove there is room for both because
you offer different value propositions. Neither you nor them are
receiving subsidies to do this -- both of you are using private money.
If folks don't like the service -- either from you or them -- they'll go
elsewhere.
 
Patrick

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:55 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

Regardless... my point is they have invested $40M and I am offering 
higher speeds, for less money, with less cost per CPE and AP... and I 
have 10x the coverage they do in my market.

The GM even mentioned and if Sprint or Clearwire were to come to town 
with a check, we would definitely look at it... which means, once 
again, they are not in it for the long haul... and their customer 
service, and quality of service, will show that the longer they are in 
business. They are looking for the buyout to take their money (and 
profit) and run.

Travis
Microserv

Patrick Leary wrote:
 Actually, most of that $40M would have been for spectrum acquisition,
 which in the accounting world is marked as an asset. They also
 constructed a major NOC center. The wireless hardware is a small
 minority of the spending.

  

 Patrick 

 

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Travis Johnson
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 6:36 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

  

 Hi,

 A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge
 company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test
radio
 that we play with. We have their up to 3meg premium service and we
 barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months).

 Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to
 roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was
pretty
 proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per
city...
 and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had
 120,000).

 Travis
 Microserv

 Chuck McCown - 2 wrote: 

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but 
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and 
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to

 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
never
 live 
 up to the hype.
  
 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
go. 
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven 
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
for

 fixed wireless. technologies.
  
 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell

 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts
of 
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the

 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than 
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
 there 
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV 
 stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
 know if 
 they get a special dispensation or what.
  
 All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That
will 
 erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and
capital 
 intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
 prefer 
 to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
 service 
 and support will always retain the customer.
  
 The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and
 drop 
 the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base
 from 
 DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as
 they 
 could.  They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash
 situation 
 from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us)
from
 the 
 other.
  
 In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web
 development, 
 OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell
opportunities.

 All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA
HDTV.
 OTA 
 HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the value 
 conscious customer.  Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and
help 
 folks get their analog TVs converted over.  Less work than a WISP
 install 
 and you will lock in the customer even more with superior customer
 service. 
 You can rent them the gear for $5/month and make it a low cost
package.
  
 In 5 years hopefully your investment will be a cash cow and you

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Patrick Leary
The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours great
headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. Meanwhile, Mo
Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec) was
trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the expectations. I
did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's greatest
near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

Patrick

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

- Original Message - 
From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly
on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts
of
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the
 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
 there
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV
 stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
 know if
 they get a special dispensation or what.

 All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That
will
 erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and
capital
 intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
 prefer
 to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
 service
 and support will always retain the customer.

 The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and
 drop
 the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base
 from
 DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as
 they
 could.  They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash
 situation
 from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us)
from
 the
 other.

 In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web
 development,
 OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell
opportunities.

 All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA
HDTV.
 OTA
 HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the value
 conscious customer.  Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and
help
 folks get their analog TVs converted over.  Less work than a WISP
 install
 and you will lock in the customer even more with superior customer
 service.
 You can rent them the gear for $5/month and make it a low cost
package.

 In 5 years hopefully your investment will be a cash cow and you will
 ride
 this horse until it dies.  Perhaps other technologies will come along
 for us
 to deploy but I see our segment strong for the next 5 years.  In 10
 years,
 if we have not diversified, we will probably be hurting.

 Oh, and satellite ISP will never do much.  Pesky physics.

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:44 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Future


 What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years?

 ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of town?)
 Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of town?)
 Cable will be using DOCSIS 3
 3G will gain more steam
 WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market
 700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the big
 guys


 My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread CHUCK PROFITO
Patrick, 
If not 70 miles and 30 mbps, 
what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
2 miles los?
2 miles wooded?
5 m los?
5 m nlos?
10 m los?
10 m nlos
??
Is this a fair question?

Chuck Profito
209-988-7388
CV-ACCESS, INC
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Providing High Speed Broadband 
to Rural Central California
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours great
headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. Meanwhile, Mo
Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec) was
trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the expectations. I
did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's greatest
near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

Patrick

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

- Original Message - 
From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly
on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts
of
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the
 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
 there
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV
 stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
 know if
 they get a special dispensation or what.

 All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That
will
 erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and
capital
 intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
 prefer
 to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
 service
 and support will always retain the customer.

 The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and
 drop
 the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base
 from
 DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as
 they
 could.  They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash
 situation
 from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us)
from
 the
 other.

 In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web
 development,
 OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell
opportunities.

 All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA
HDTV.
 OTA
 HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the value
 conscious customer.  Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and
help
 folks get their analog TVs converted over.  Less work than a WISP
 install
 and you will lock in the customer even more with superior customer
 service.
 You can rent them the gear for $5/month and make it a low cost
package.

 In 5 years hopefully your investment will be a cash cow and you will
 ride
 this horse until it dies.  Perhaps other technologies will come along
 for us
 to deploy but I see our segment strong for the next 5 years.  In 10
 years,
 if we have not diversified, we will probably be hurting.

 Oh, and satellite ISP will never do much.  Pesky physics.

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Brad Belton
This should be interesting...

Brad


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:01 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

Patrick, 
If not 70 miles and 30 mbps, 
what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
2 miles los?
2 miles wooded?
5 m los?
5 m nlos?
10 m los?
10 m nlos
??
Is this a fair question?

Chuck Profito
209-988-7388
CV-ACCESS, INC
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Providing High Speed Broadband 
to Rural Central California
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours great
headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. Meanwhile, Mo
Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec) was
trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the expectations. I
did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's greatest
near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

Patrick

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

- Original Message - 
From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly
on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts
of
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the
 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
 there
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV
 stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
 know if
 they get a special dispensation or what.

 All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That
will
 erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and
capital
 intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
 prefer
 to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
 service
 and support will always retain the customer.

 The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and
 drop
 the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base
 from
 DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as
 they
 could.  They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash
 situation
 from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us)
from
 the
 other.

 In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web
 development,
 OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell
opportunities.

 All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA
HDTV.
 OTA
 HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the value
 conscious customer.  Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and
help
 folks get their analog TVs converted over.  Less work than a WISP
 install
 and you will lock in the customer even more with superior customer
 service.
 You can rent them the gear for $5/month and make it a low cost
package.

 In 5 years hopefully your investment will be a cash cow and you will
 ride
 this horse until it dies.  Perhaps other technologies will come along
 for us
 to deploy but I see our segment strong for the next 5 years.  In 10

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Chuck McCown - 2
The official WiMax consultant training session I went to, showed sub-canopy 
speeds beyond 7 miles.
I pointed that out in front of the group and just about got run out of the 
room.
- Original Message - 
From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. Meanwhile, Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec) was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the expectations. I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message - 
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
 never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
 go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
 for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts
 of
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the
 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
 there
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV
 stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
 know if
 they get a special dispensation or what.

 All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That
 will
 erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and
 capital
 intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
 prefer
 to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
 service
 and support will always retain the customer.

 The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and
 drop
 the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base
 from
 DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as
 they
 could.  They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash
 situation
 from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us)
 from
 the
 other.

 In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web
 development,
 OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell
 opportunities.

 All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA
 HDTV.
 OTA
 HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the value
 conscious customer.  Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and
 help
 folks get their analog TVs converted over.  Less work than a WISP
 install
 and you will lock in the customer even more with superior customer
 service.
 You can rent them the gear for $5/month and make it a low cost
 package.

 In 5 years hopefully your investment

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Patrick Leary
Like so many things in this business, it depends on the frequency, power
and especially the channel size (which are small in licensed
allocations).

In theory, you could do 70 mbps and 30 miles with a number of
technologies given the right channel size and power.

WiMAX does offer really high efficiency that is about 2x of 802.11a, so
you can pack some decent capacity in a small channel and with high
levels of diversity you can create excellent coverage and multiply the
capacity.

In a 5 MHz channel in 2.5 GHz (BRS/EBS range) a common average service
level could be 2 mbps down/1 mbps up using a self-install indoor modem
2-3 miles. I know of customers that have such a model and have 100
customers on the sector. Obviously there is some over subscription,
which can be higher in licensed than unlicensed (and due to the fact
that the MAC that is used in licensed WiMAX runs less overhead than
802.11 or other UL PMP gear).

Patrick

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

Patrick, 
If not 70 miles and 30 mbps, 
what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
2 miles los?
2 miles wooded?
5 m los?
5 m nlos?
10 m los?
10 m nlos
??
Is this a fair question?

Chuck Profito
209-988-7388
CV-ACCESS, INC
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Providing High Speed Broadband 
to Rural Central California
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours great
headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. Meanwhile, Mo
Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec) was
trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the expectations. I
did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's greatest
near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

Patrick

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

- Original Message - 
From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly
on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts
of
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the
 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
 there
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV
 stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
 know if
 they get a special dispensation or what.

 All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That
will
 erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and
capital
 intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
 prefer
 to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
 service
 and support will always retain the customer.

 The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and
 drop
 the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base
 from
 DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as
 they
 could.  They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash
 situation
 from

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Patrick Leary
Of course it would Chuck. But in the case of Canopy speeds being higher,
that is strictly because it uses 4x the channel (20 MHz for the Canopy
vs. 5 MHz for 2.5 GHz WiMAX).

By the way, the VL would in turn smoke the Canopy and do it in the same
channel size. 

Patrick Leary
AVP, Market Development
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:08 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

The official WiMax consultant training session I went to, showed
sub-canopy 
speeds beyond 7 miles.
I pointed that out in front of the group and just about got run out of
the 
room.
- Original Message - 
From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. Meanwhile,
Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the expectations.
I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message - 
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited
to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
 never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
 go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
 for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more
cell
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts
 of
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of
the
 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
 there
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV
 stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
 know if
 they get a special dispensation or what.

 All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That
 will
 erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and
 capital
 intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
 prefer
 to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
 service
 and support will always retain the customer.

 The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and
 drop
 the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base
 from
 DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well
as
 they
 could.  They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash
 situation
 from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us)
 from
 the
 other.

 In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web
 development

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Patrick Leary
Brad, that's bull. The only reason any Alvarion person won't say what
the speed is is because they might not be sure, and since the 3650 is in
beta, no one Can say with honesty and certainty what the speeds of
BreezeMAX 3650 are. We can guess, but the person who spoke to you is
likely junior, green and not too comfortable going there yet.

Patrick Leary
AVP, Market Development
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brad Belton
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:17 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

Exactly.  A couple weeks ago an Avarion rep called to discuss products
(cold
call?) and I asked what payload is expected from the 3650 WiMAX gear.
He
avoided the question by saying he wasn't at liberty to discuss that
information yet.

Redline was more forthright than Alvarion and came right out and
admitted
the WiMAX payloads were a good bit less than what we have available
today in
UL gear.  Essentially the conversation moved completely away from WiMAX
and
back to Redline's UL gear.

Best,


Brad




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 1:08 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

The official WiMax consultant training session I went to, showed
sub-canopy 
speeds beyond 7 miles.
I pointed that out in front of the group and just about got run out of
the 
room.
- Original Message - 
From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. Meanwhile,
Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the expectations.
I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message - 
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited
to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
 never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
 go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
 for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more
cell
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts
 of
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of
the
 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
 there
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV
 stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
 know if
 they get a special dispensation or what.

 All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Chuck McCown - 2
Speed is the only thing I have to sell.  5.4 has opened up plenty of BW for 
us now.  I am fine with 20MHz channels.  So what we are shopping for is 
something that will give our customers a 25 Mbps download speed in a 20-25 
MHz channel UL at a price that will not break the bank.  Mot OFDM is 
supposed to be able to do this but we haven't been able to test it yet.

- Original Message - 
From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Of course it would Chuck. But in the case of Canopy speeds being higher,
 that is strictly because it uses 4x the channel (20 MHz for the Canopy
 vs. 5 MHz for 2.5 GHz WiMAX).

 By the way, the VL would in turn smoke the Canopy and do it in the same
 channel size. 

 Patrick Leary
 AVP, Market Development
 Alvarion, Inc.
 o: 650.314.2628
 c: 760.580.0080
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:08 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The official WiMax consultant training session I went to, showed
 sub-canopy
 speeds beyond 7 miles.
 I pointed that out in front of the group and just about got run out of
 the
 room.
 - Original Message - 
 From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:01 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
 great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. Meanwhile,
 Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
 was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the expectations.
 I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
 greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message - 
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited
 to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
 never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
 go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
 for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more
 cell
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts
 of
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of
 the
 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
 there
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV
 stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
 know if
 they get a special dispensation or what.

 All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That
 will
 erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and
 capital
 intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
 prefer
 to deal with us vs

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Chuck McCown - 2
OK, so what is the answer to the question below?
 - Original Message - 
 From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:01 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future
 
 
 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Matt Liotta
I am not sure you are comparing apples to apples here. We have  
deployed a number of Redline 3.65 radios. Which UL radio provides more  
payload in a single polarization at an equivalent channel size,  
distance and signal level?

-Matt

On Apr 21, 2008, at 2:16 PM, Brad Belton wrote:
 Exactly.  A couple weeks ago an Avarion rep called to discuss  
 products (cold
 call?) and I asked what payload is expected from the 3650 WiMAX  
 gear.  He
 avoided the question by saying he wasn't at liberty to discuss that
 information yet.

 Redline was more forthright than Alvarion and came right out and  
 admitted
 the WiMAX payloads were a good bit less than what we have available  
 today in
 UL gear.  Essentially the conversation moved completely away from  
 WiMAX and
 back to Redline's UL gear.

 Best,


 Brad




 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 1:08 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The official WiMax consultant training session I went to, showed sub- 
 canopy
 speeds beyond 7 miles.
 I pointed that out in front of the group and just about got run out  
 of the
 room.
 - Original Message -
 From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:01 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours  
 great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly.  
 Meanwhile, Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)  
 was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the  
 expectations. I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's  
 greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message -
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree  
 strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually  
 true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies  
 and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well  
 suited to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
 never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
 go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
 for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more  
 cell
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts
 of
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of  
 the
 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
 there
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV
 stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
 know if
 they get a special dispensation or what.

 All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That
 will
 erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and
 capital
 intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many  
 folks
 prefer
 to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Patrick Leary
By the way, the public presentations we have on this have specific
slides that give expectations on range using various CPE. Those will be
released just prior to the mid-May launch.

Patrick

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:25 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

Brad, that's bull. The only reason any Alvarion person won't say what
the speed is is because they might not be sure, and since the 3650 is in
beta, no one Can say with honesty and certainty what the speeds of
BreezeMAX 3650 are. We can guess, but the person who spoke to you is
likely junior, green and not too comfortable going there yet.

Patrick Leary
AVP, Market Development
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brad Belton
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:17 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

Exactly.  A couple weeks ago an Avarion rep called to discuss products
(cold
call?) and I asked what payload is expected from the 3650 WiMAX gear.
He
avoided the question by saying he wasn't at liberty to discuss that
information yet.

Redline was more forthright than Alvarion and came right out and
admitted
the WiMAX payloads were a good bit less than what we have available
today in
UL gear.  Essentially the conversation moved completely away from WiMAX
and
back to Redline's UL gear.

Best,


Brad




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 1:08 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

The official WiMax consultant training session I went to, showed
sub-canopy 
speeds beyond 7 miles.
I pointed that out in front of the group and just about got run out of
the 
room.
- Original Message - 
From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. Meanwhile,
Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the expectations.
I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message - 
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited
to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
 never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
 go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
 for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more
cell
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts
 of
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of
the
 antenna

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Patrick Leary
I get that Chuck. I was just trying to make sure people knew we were not
talking about apples to apples. Channel size is key for ANY technology
in terms of capacity and comparing capacities in the absence of making
clear the channel size being discussed will be misleading.

Patrick

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:26 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

Speed is the only thing I have to sell.  5.4 has opened up plenty of BW
for 
us now.  I am fine with 20MHz channels.  So what we are shopping for is 
something that will give our customers a 25 Mbps download speed in a
20-25 
MHz channel UL at a price that will not break the bank.  Mot OFDM is 
supposed to be able to do this but we haven't been able to test it yet.

- Original Message - 
From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Of course it would Chuck. But in the case of Canopy speeds being
higher,
 that is strictly because it uses 4x the channel (20 MHz for the Canopy
 vs. 5 MHz for 2.5 GHz WiMAX).

 By the way, the VL would in turn smoke the Canopy and do it in the
same
 channel size. 

 Patrick Leary
 AVP, Market Development
 Alvarion, Inc.
 o: 650.314.2628
 c: 760.580.0080
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:08 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The official WiMax consultant training session I went to, showed
 sub-canopy
 speeds beyond 7 miles.
 I pointed that out in front of the group and just about got run out of
 the
 room.
 - Original Message - 
 From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:01 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
 great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. Meanwhile,
 Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
 was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the expectations.
 I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
 greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message - 
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree
strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually
true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies
and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited
 to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
 never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
 go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
 for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more
 cell
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts
 of
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of
 the
 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Chuck McCown - 2
Holy bat guano robin.  I was hoping these things would be a good filler for 
the smaller areas.
Do they have a down up ratio adjust to make them symmetrical for BH use? 
Any range data?
Can they do Canopy ranges?

- Original Message - 
From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


I interrupt this posting by announcing my recent test with the ubiquity
 nano station 5 ...

 Using 20 mhz channels, 24 Mbps downlink , 12 Mbps uplink ...
 simultaneously ... not gad for a piece of $80 Canopy Copycat ... jejeje

 Ill keep you guys posted on more recent developments

 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:22 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 Of course it would Chuck. But in the case of Canopy speeds being higher,
 that is strictly because it uses 4x the channel (20 MHz for the Canopy
 vs. 5 MHz for 2.5 GHz WiMAX).

 By the way, the VL would in turn smoke the Canopy and do it in the same
 channel size. 

 Patrick Leary
 AVP, Market Development
 Alvarion, Inc.
 o: 650.314.2628
 c: 760.580.0080
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:08 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The official WiMax consultant training session I went to, showed
 sub-canopy
 speeds beyond 7 miles.
 I pointed that out in front of the group and just about got run out of
 the
 room.
 - Original Message - 
 From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:01 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
 great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. Meanwhile,
 Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
 was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the expectations.
 I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
 greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message - 
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited
 to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
 never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
 go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
 for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more
 cell
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts
 of
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of
 the
 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Gino Villarini
More Testing with the NS5:

Using 5 Mhz channels ...

17 MBps Downlink 10 Mbps Uplinks ...

Wow!  Obviously I have the SuperA options enabled (FastFrame, Bursting
and Compression)... still ... impressive for a $80 radio

All this test are bench test using Mikrotik Bandwidth test tool ...

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:27 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

I am not sure you are comparing apples to apples here. We have  
deployed a number of Redline 3.65 radios. Which UL radio provides more  
payload in a single polarization at an equivalent channel size,  
distance and signal level?

-Matt

On Apr 21, 2008, at 2:16 PM, Brad Belton wrote:
 Exactly.  A couple weeks ago an Avarion rep called to discuss  
 products (cold
 call?) and I asked what payload is expected from the 3650 WiMAX  
 gear.  He
 avoided the question by saying he wasn't at liberty to discuss that
 information yet.

 Redline was more forthright than Alvarion and came right out and  
 admitted
 the WiMAX payloads were a good bit less than what we have available  
 today in
 UL gear.  Essentially the conversation moved completely away from  
 WiMAX and
 back to Redline's UL gear.

 Best,


 Brad




 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 1:08 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The official WiMax consultant training session I went to, showed sub- 
 canopy
 speeds beyond 7 miles.
 I pointed that out in front of the group and just about got run out  
 of the
 room.
 - Original Message -
 From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:01 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours  
 great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly.  
 Meanwhile, Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)  
 was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the  
 expectations. I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's  
 greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message -
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree  
 strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually  
 true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies  
 and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well  
 suited to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
 never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
 go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
 for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more  
 cell
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts
 of
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of  
 the
 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Chuck McCown - 2
Right, so do you have a grid, graph or nomograph or something that can give 
us an idea?

- Original Message - 
From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


I get that Chuck. I was just trying to make sure people knew we were not
 talking about apples to apples. Channel size is key for ANY technology
 in terms of capacity and comparing capacities in the absence of making
 clear the channel size being discussed will be misleading.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:26 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 Speed is the only thing I have to sell.  5.4 has opened up plenty of BW
 for
 us now.  I am fine with 20MHz channels.  So what we are shopping for is
 something that will give our customers a 25 Mbps download speed in a
 20-25
 MHz channel UL at a price that will not break the bank.  Mot OFDM is
 supposed to be able to do this but we haven't been able to test it yet.

 - Original Message - 
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:22 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Of course it would Chuck. But in the case of Canopy speeds being
 higher,
 that is strictly because it uses 4x the channel (20 MHz for the Canopy
 vs. 5 MHz for 2.5 GHz WiMAX).

 By the way, the VL would in turn smoke the Canopy and do it in the
 same
 channel size. 

 Patrick Leary
 AVP, Market Development
 Alvarion, Inc.
 o: 650.314.2628
 c: 760.580.0080
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:08 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The official WiMax consultant training session I went to, showed
 sub-canopy
 speeds beyond 7 miles.
 I pointed that out in front of the group and just about got run out of
 the
 room.
 - Original Message - 
 From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:01 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
 great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. Meanwhile,
 Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
 was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the expectations.
 I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
 greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message - 
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree
 strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually
 true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies
 and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited
 to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
 never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
 go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
 for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Matt Liotta
We see 10Mbps FDX with iperf in 7Mhz channels on the Redline gear. For  
those who pay attention, this is a layer 3 test over 802.1q with 1500  
MTU using a 5ms TDD. Oh yeah and it was tested 2.7 miles NLOS at -82  
RSSI. If we tweaked for throughput as opposed to latency we could beat  
that. However, we prefer lower latency since we have to provide QoS  
for VoIP.

-Matt

On Apr 21, 2008, at 2:32 PM, Gino Villarini wrote:
 More Testing with the NS5:

 Using 5 Mhz channels ...

 17 MBps Downlink 10 Mbps Uplinks ...

 Wow!  Obviously I have the SuperA options enabled (FastFrame, Bursting
 and Compression)... still ... impressive for a $80 radio

 All this test are bench test using Mikrotik Bandwidth test tool ...

 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 On
 Behalf Of Matt Liotta
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:27 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 I am not sure you are comparing apples to apples here. We have
 deployed a number of Redline 3.65 radios. Which UL radio provides more
 payload in a single polarization at an equivalent channel size,
 distance and signal level?

 -Matt

 On Apr 21, 2008, at 2:16 PM, Brad Belton wrote:
 Exactly.  A couple weeks ago an Avarion rep called to discuss
 products (cold
 call?) and I asked what payload is expected from the 3650 WiMAX
 gear.  He
 avoided the question by saying he wasn't at liberty to discuss that
 information yet.

 Redline was more forthright than Alvarion and came right out and
 admitted
 the WiMAX payloads were a good bit less than what we have available
 today in
 UL gear.  Essentially the conversation moved completely away from
 WiMAX and
 back to Redline's UL gear.

 Best,


 Brad




 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 1:08 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The official WiMax consultant training session I went to, showed sub-
 canopy
 speeds beyond 7 miles.
 I pointed that out in front of the group and just about got run out
 of the
 room.
 - Original Message -
 From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:01 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless-
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
 great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly.
 Meanwhile, Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
 was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the
 expectations. I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
 greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless-
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message -
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree
 strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually
 true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies
 and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well
 suited to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
 never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
 go.
 Cell does not want to squander

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Gino Villarini
They don't have a down/up ratio control , but all my test seem like the
subscriber unit allotted more BW for Downlink ... No Range data yet...
the tx power goes from 0 to 24 db ...Not Bad, and you have that external
sma connector for panels , grids and dishes

You have the option to software select:

Vertical, Horizontal , Adaptive or External Antenna...

The adaptive option I assume is to pick the best from all..

The do have some Basic QOS settings (Down / UP MIR) and some 802.x QOS
for VOIP and Video

With ho traffic, pings were in the 1 - 2 ms range, fully loaded, 1500
byte pings went to about 30 ms

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:32 PM
To: WISPA General List
Cc: Bryan Scott
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

Holy bat guano robin.  I was hoping these things would be a good filler
for 
the smaller areas.
Do they have a down up ratio adjust to make them symmetrical for BH use?

Any range data?
Can they do Canopy ranges?

- Original Message - 
From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


I interrupt this posting by announcing my recent test with the ubiquity
 nano station 5 ...

 Using 20 mhz channels, 24 Mbps downlink , 12 Mbps uplink ...
 simultaneously ... not gad for a piece of $80 Canopy Copycat ...
jejeje

 Ill keep you guys posted on more recent developments

 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:22 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 Of course it would Chuck. But in the case of Canopy speeds being
higher,
 that is strictly because it uses 4x the channel (20 MHz for the Canopy
 vs. 5 MHz for 2.5 GHz WiMAX).

 By the way, the VL would in turn smoke the Canopy and do it in the
same
 channel size. 

 Patrick Leary
 AVP, Market Development
 Alvarion, Inc.
 o: 650.314.2628
 c: 760.580.0080
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:08 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The official WiMax consultant training session I went to, showed
 sub-canopy
 speeds beyond 7 miles.
 I pointed that out in front of the group and just about got run out of
 the
 room.
 - Original Message - 
 From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:01 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
 great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. Meanwhile,
 Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
 was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the expectations.
 I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
 greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message - 
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree
strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Patrick Leary
Yep. It is the efficiency of WiMAX that plays the role here. We can do
about 12 mbps net as a peak rate in a 5 MHz channel, but that is not
something you'd offer customers in a sector you were looking to scale.

Patrick

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:40 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

We see 10Mbps FDX with iperf in 7Mhz channels on the Redline gear. For  
those who pay attention, this is a layer 3 test over 802.1q with 1500  
MTU using a 5ms TDD. Oh yeah and it was tested 2.7 miles NLOS at -82  
RSSI. If we tweaked for throughput as opposed to latency we could beat  
that. However, we prefer lower latency since we have to provide QoS  
for VoIP.

-Matt

On Apr 21, 2008, at 2:32 PM, Gino Villarini wrote:
 More Testing with the NS5:

 Using 5 Mhz channels ...

 17 MBps Downlink 10 Mbps Uplinks ...

 Wow!  Obviously I have the SuperA options enabled (FastFrame, Bursting
 and Compression)... still ... impressive for a $80 radio

 All this test are bench test using Mikrotik Bandwidth test tool ...

 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 On
 Behalf Of Matt Liotta
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:27 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 I am not sure you are comparing apples to apples here. We have
 deployed a number of Redline 3.65 radios. Which UL radio provides more
 payload in a single polarization at an equivalent channel size,
 distance and signal level?

 -Matt

 On Apr 21, 2008, at 2:16 PM, Brad Belton wrote:
 Exactly.  A couple weeks ago an Avarion rep called to discuss
 products (cold
 call?) and I asked what payload is expected from the 3650 WiMAX
 gear.  He
 avoided the question by saying he wasn't at liberty to discuss that
 information yet.

 Redline was more forthright than Alvarion and came right out and
 admitted
 the WiMAX payloads were a good bit less than what we have available
 today in
 UL gear.  Essentially the conversation moved completely away from
 WiMAX and
 back to Redline's UL gear.

 Best,


 Brad




 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 1:08 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The official WiMax consultant training session I went to, showed sub-
 canopy
 speeds beyond 7 miles.
 I pointed that out in front of the group and just about got run out
 of the
 room.
 - Original Message -
 From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:01 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless-
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
 great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly.
 Meanwhile, Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
 was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the
 expectations. I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
 greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless-
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message -
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree
 strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Matt Liotta
We prefer to be allowed to break the WiMAX standard and tweak things  
more to our liking. For example, 3.5 and 7 Mhz channels are annoying  
for only 25Mhz of spectrum. It would be nice to have access to 5 and  
14 Mhz channel widths.

-Matt

On Apr 21, 2008, at 2:43 PM, Patrick Leary wrote:
 Yep. It is the efficiency of WiMAX that plays the role here. We can do
 about 12 mbps net as a peak rate in a 5 MHz channel, but that is not
 something you'd offer customers in a sector you were looking to scale.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 On
 Behalf Of Matt Liotta
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:40 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 We see 10Mbps FDX with iperf in 7Mhz channels on the Redline gear. For
 those who pay attention, this is a layer 3 test over 802.1q with 1500
 MTU using a 5ms TDD. Oh yeah and it was tested 2.7 miles NLOS at -82
 RSSI. If we tweaked for throughput as opposed to latency we could beat
 that. However, we prefer lower latency since we have to provide QoS
 for VoIP.

 -Matt

 On Apr 21, 2008, at 2:32 PM, Gino Villarini wrote:
 More Testing with the NS5:

 Using 5 Mhz channels ...

 17 MBps Downlink 10 Mbps Uplinks ...

 Wow!  Obviously I have the SuperA options enabled (FastFrame,  
 Bursting
 and Compression)... still ... impressive for a $80 radio

 All this test are bench test using Mikrotik Bandwidth test tool ...

 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Matt Liotta
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:27 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 I am not sure you are comparing apples to apples here. We have
 deployed a number of Redline 3.65 radios. Which UL radio provides  
 more
 payload in a single polarization at an equivalent channel size,
 distance and signal level?

 -Matt

 On Apr 21, 2008, at 2:16 PM, Brad Belton wrote:
 Exactly.  A couple weeks ago an Avarion rep called to discuss
 products (cold
 call?) and I asked what payload is expected from the 3650 WiMAX
 gear.  He
 avoided the question by saying he wasn't at liberty to discuss that
 information yet.

 Redline was more forthright than Alvarion and came right out and
 admitted
 the WiMAX payloads were a good bit less than what we have available
 today in
 UL gear.  Essentially the conversation moved completely away from
 WiMAX and
 back to Redline's UL gear.

 Best,


 Brad




 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 1:08 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The official WiMax consultant training session I went to, showed  
 sub-
 canopy
 speeds beyond 7 miles.
 I pointed that out in front of the group and just about got run out
 of the
 room.
 - Original Message -
 From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:01 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless-
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
 great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly.
 Meanwhile, Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
 was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the
 expectations. I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
 greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless-
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message -
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree
 strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of  
 it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have

Re: [WISPA] Future

2008-04-21 Thread Brad Belton
By the way, the VL would in turn smoke the Canopy and do it in the same
channel size. 

Unless there have been some terrific changes made to Alvarion VL since our
last run around the block with it, your statement will only hold true in RF
friendly environments.  Add a healthy dose of noise/interference and the VL
will sit and wait for clear air before it transmits resulting in wildly
inconsistent payload capacity.

Best,


Brad


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 1:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

Of course it would Chuck. But in the case of Canopy speeds being higher,
that is strictly because it uses 4x the channel (20 MHz for the Canopy
vs. 5 MHz for 2.5 GHz WiMAX).

By the way, the VL would in turn smoke the Canopy and do it in the same
channel size. 

Patrick Leary
AVP, Market Development
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:08 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

The official WiMax consultant training session I went to, showed
sub-canopy 
speeds beyond 7 miles.
I pointed that out in front of the group and just about got run out of
the 
room.
- Original Message - 
From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


 Patrick,
 If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
 what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
 2 miles los?
 2 miles wooded?
 5 m los?
 5 m nlos?
 10 m los?
 10 m nlos
 ??
 Is this a fair question?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Patrick Leary
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
great
 headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of
 hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. Meanwhile,
Mo
 Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
was
 trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
 sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the expectations.
I
 did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.

 WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
greatest
 near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?

 - Original Message - 
 From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future


I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
 partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly
 on
 the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).

 The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
 opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.

 Patrick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future

 WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
 but
 emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and
 technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited
to
 compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
 never
 live
 up to the hype.

 All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
 go.
 Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
 driven
 customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
 for

 fixed wireless. technologies.

 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more
cell
 spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts
 of
 data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of
the
 antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
 than
 the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
 there
 will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV
 stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
 know if
 they get a special dispensation or what.

 All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That
 will
 erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and
 capital
 intensive process so no reason to get jumpy

  1   2   >