RE: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-09 Thread Rudy Worrell
Mac,

I like the million WISP idea.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mac Dearman
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 12:00 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today


  I have complete confidence in our leadership thus far and remember 
that we are an infant organization. I think with the election tomorrow 
and continued support from those who are going into office we are well 
on our way to having a jam up jelly good organization. I know the heart 
of every one of the men who have been instrumental in putting this 
organization together from day one. I know that they want an industry 
owned, member driven power house that will have a say in Washington as 
well as in individual States. The men we will see in office Wednesday 
are the ones who have been the movers and shakers in this industry for 
years and have my utmost allegiance and respect. I cant say that I have 
agreed with everything, but then I dont agree with everything that goes 
on under my own roof either :-)

   I think what we need more than anything to accomplish what we need is 
a very large mouth! That mouth can only be trumpeted by a mass of 
individuals coming together under one umbrella - - WISPA and jointly 
having WISPA speak for us as a whole. I look at what the Gay rights 
activists have accomplished with their lobbying (not that I agree there 
either) although the gay population is really not that large. Its just 
well funded, out spoken, very organized, very active and very seen 
across the country. IMHO we to will have to use some of their tactics, 
be very loud and obnoxious to the point of being pushy and refuse to NOT 
be heard and seen. I think WISPA is the very thing for this industry as 
it is a one of a kind. Its made up of folks like you and me, and Larsen 
and Scriv and Harnish and so on - - just every day good ole boys with an 
agenda. I think that when we hold hands ( I am not gay) and stand up we 
will have to be heard. I dont think that we can be ignored if we go 
about this the right way.

 Do you remember the million man march in DC? There really wasnt half 
that many people, but it was the attention they stirred up that makes it 
so memorable. That was in 1995!!! How about we have a march in DC up the 
steps to the FCC's offices all the while surfing the net and sending 
emails to reporters back in our home states, live web cameras rolling 
while Scrivner gives us a whooda thunk it speech. I think there are a 
lot of things we can do once this election is over and done. The 
election is the first step toward accomplishing great things in this 
industry.

The next real step is membership!! WHO AINT PAID THEM DUES???

Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us (VoIP Sales)
www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
318.728.8600  
318.728.9600
318.303.4227




Rudolph Worrell wrote:

Mac,

I am with you.  We need to be very aware but also plan and propose so that
we 
are not spoken for in an ill way.

One thing that would really help here and on the paid side of things is to
have 
clear goals, leadership, and direction.



Quoting Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

  

  I say whoooa mule!

I think before we jump the gun we ought to see what lies ahead of 
us. If they plan on taxing the free spectrum it will have to be done at 
the manufacturers level. There is no way to tax us per device and if we 
are taxed per user  - - - then we will just pass that on to the end 
user. Ultimately all taxes will have to be passed down to the end user - 
it always has been - - -it always will be. I dont mind paying the taxes, 
its all that damn collecting and book keeping I hate. It seems that 
Uncle Sams money always get intermingled with mine and then I try to 
find ways to keep it :-)
  
  From what I have read earlier today its not a done deal ad 
its just talk at this time. We do need to keep our ears to the ground 
and our eyes open though and if we can lead the horse rather than eat 
dust from the Cavalry ahead of us would be a choice place to be.

Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us (VoIP Sales)
www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
318.728.8600  
318.728.9600
318.303.4227




John Scrivner wrote:



How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base 
station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives first 
in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography in the 
channel registered for each base station? Then everyone would have the 
ability to have access to spectrum with some rights to prevent 
interference and have something that investors could be comfortable 
with investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum class split we 
have now where some have rights of licensed use and others (like us) 
cannot play

Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-08 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

Great post Mac.  Thanks for the vote of confidence!

Now go put those comments on every OTHER list you're on!  We need this kind 
of thing said, over and over and over, in places that don't know about or 
don't participate in wispa.


We need Stu to join!

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 8:59 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today




 I have complete confidence in our leadership thus far and remember that 
we are an infant organization. I think with the election tomorrow and 
continued support from those who are going into office we are well on our 
way to having a jam up jelly good organization. I know the heart of every 
one of the men who have been instrumental in putting this organization 
together from day one. I know that they want an industry owned, member 
driven power house that will have a say in Washington as well as in 
individual States. The men we will see in office Wednesday are the ones 
who have been the movers and shakers in this industry for years and have 
my utmost allegiance and respect. I cant say that I have agreed with 
everything, but then I dont agree with everything that goes on under my 
own roof either :-)


  I think what we need more than anything to accomplish what we need is a 
very large mouth! That mouth can only be trumpeted by a mass of 
individuals coming together under one umbrella - - WISPA and jointly 
having WISPA speak for us as a whole. I look at what the Gay rights 
activists have accomplished with their lobbying (not that I agree there 
either) although the gay population is really not that large. Its just 
well funded, out spoken, very organized, very active and very seen 
across the country. IMHO we to will have to use some of their tactics, be 
very loud and obnoxious to the point of being pushy and refuse to NOT be 
heard and seen. I think WISPA is the very thing for this industry as it is 
a one of a kind. Its made up of folks like you and me, and Larsen and 
Scriv and Harnish and so on - - just every day good ole boys with an 
agenda. I think that when we hold hands ( I am not gay) and stand up we 
will have to be heard. I dont think that we can be ignored if we go about 
this the right way.


Do you remember the million man march in DC? There really wasnt half that 
many people, but it was the attention they stirred up that makes it so 
memorable. That was in 1995!!! How about we have a march in DC up the 
steps to the FCC's offices all the while surfing the net and sending 
emails to reporters back in our home states, live web cameras rolling 
while Scrivner gives us a whooda thunk it speech. I think there are a 
lot of things we can do once this election is over and done. The election 
is the first step toward accomplishing great things in this industry.


The next real step is membership!! WHO AINT PAID THEM DUES???

Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us (VoIP Sales)
www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
318.728.8600  318.728.9600
318.303.4227




Rudolph Worrell wrote:


Mac,

I am with you.  We need to be very aware but also plan and propose so that 
we are not spoken for in an ill way.


One thing that would really help here and on the paid side of things is to 
have clear goals, leadership, and direction.




Quoting Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED]:



 I say whoooa mule!

   I think before we jump the gun we ought to see what lies ahead of us. 
If they plan on taxing the free spectrum it will have to be done at the 
manufacturers level. There is no way to tax us per device and if we are 
taxed per user  - - - then we will just pass that on to the end user. 
Ultimately all taxes will have to be passed down to the end user - it 
always has been - - -it always will be. I dont mind paying the taxes, 
its all that damn collecting and book keeping I hate. It seems that 
Uncle Sams money always get intermingled with mine and then I try to 
find ways to keep it :-)
 From what I have read earlier today its not a done deal ad its just 
talk at this time. We do need to keep our ears to the ground and our 
eyes open though and if we can lead the horse rather than eat dust from 
the Cavalry ahead of us would be a choice place to be.


Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us (VoIP Sales)
www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
318.728.8600  318.728.9600
318.303.4227




John Scrivner wrote:


How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base 
station license

Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-07 Thread Bob Moldashel
SureAlot of municipalities say go away.  It's that easy. 

Some take it on a case by case basis.  But overall the attitude is if 
you are not a utility as outlined by the PSC (Public Service 
Commission) you are pretty much out of luck.


Again..it varies by state but here the last thing they want to do is 
deal with the stress that the utilities will dump on them


-B-




Jeromie Reeves wrote:


Can you explain how it is not available? Yes the insurance is killer.

Jeromie Reeves

Bob Moldashel wrote:


Jeromie Reeves wrote:

Right of Way access is available to anyone right now. Ask your local 
city/county for the ROW contracts

that they have with the gas, cable, telco, electric, and others.

Jeromie Reeves




Unfortunately...It is not available in alot of places here in NY and CT.

And where it isthe insurance provisions are a real killer.

-B-






--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Blair Davis

Now we know why they want the 477 forms.

Brian Webster wrote:


Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the
unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax
Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet
but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they
reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available
once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories.
Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of
the spectrum.

http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416

 




--
Blair Davis

AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC

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RE: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Rudy Worrell
Time to organize troops... Nuff said!

Who's got lead?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Blair Davis
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

Now we know why they want the 477 forms.

Brian Webster wrote:

Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the
unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax
Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it
yet
but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they
reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available
once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full
stories.
Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of
the spectrum.

http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416

  



-- 
Blair Davis

AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC

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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread John Scrivner
How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base 
station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives first 
in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography in the 
channel registered for each base station? Then everyone would have the 
ability to have access to spectrum with some rights to prevent 
interference and have something that investors could be comfortable with 
investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum class split we have now 
where some have rights of licensed use and others (like us) cannot play 
in the game without using spectrum with no spectrum rights (unlicensed). 
The government could have the revenues they demand which they normally 
get from auctions which I oppose due to the inability for smaller 
operators to have a chance to buy in.

Just a thought.
Scriv


Rudy Worrell wrote:


Time to organize troops... Nuff said!

Who's got lead?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Blair Davis
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

Now we know why they want the 477 forms.

Brian Webster wrote:

 


Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the
unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax
Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it
   


yet
 


but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they
reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available
once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full
   


stories.
 


Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of
the spectrum.

http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416



   




 


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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread John Scrivner
Sorry to reply to my own post here but I forgot one important part of 
this I meant to include. Under this policy we would suggest that 
unlicensed spectrum would remain absolutely free of charges. The fees 
would only apply to all un-auctioned whitespace in all bands across the 
entire radio spectrum that are neither currently assigned or unlicensed 
for other uses..

Scriv


John Scrivner wrote:

How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base 
station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives first 
in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography in the 
channel registered for each base station? Then everyone would have the 
ability to have access to spectrum with some rights to prevent 
interference and have something that investors could be comfortable 
with investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum class split we 
have now where some have rights of licensed use and others (like us) 
cannot play in the game without using spectrum with no spectrum rights 
(unlicensed). The government could have the revenues they demand which 
they normally get from auctions which I oppose due to the inability 
for smaller operators to have a chance to buy in.

Just a thought.
Scriv


Rudy Worrell wrote:


Time to organize troops... Nuff said!

Who's got lead?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Blair Davis
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

Now we know why they want the 477 forms.

Brian Webster wrote:

 

Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax 
the
unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan 
to tax
Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will 
do it
  


yet
 

but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is 
they
reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become 
available

once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full
  


stories.
 

Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free 
use of

the spectrum.

http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416



  




 


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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
I like the idea of offering to be taxed for something in exchange.  This 
way at least we get something WE VALUE instead of settling for something 
stupid later on.  I've been playing a lot of poker lately.  First to act 
usually wins the pot.  Let's try acting first.  Always reacting sucks.


John Scrivner wrote:

Sorry to reply to my own post here but I forgot one important part of 
this I meant to include. Under this policy we would suggest that 
unlicensed spectrum would remain absolutely free of charges. The fees 
would only apply to all un-auctioned whitespace in all bands across 
the entire radio spectrum that are neither currently assigned or 
unlicensed for other uses..

Scriv


John Scrivner wrote:

How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base 
station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives 
first in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography in 
the channel registered for each base station? Then everyone would 
have the ability to have access to spectrum with some rights to 
prevent interference and have something that investors could be 
comfortable with investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum 
class split we have now where some have rights of licensed use and 
others (like us) cannot play in the game without using spectrum with 
no spectrum rights (unlicensed). The government could have the 
revenues they demand which they normally get from auctions which I 
oppose due to the inability for smaller operators to have a chance to 
buy in.

Just a thought.
Scriv


Rudy Worrell wrote:


Time to organize troops... Nuff said!

Who's got lead?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Blair Davis
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

Now we know why they want the 477 forms.

Brian Webster wrote:

 

Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to 
tax the
unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan 
to tax
Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will 
do it
  



yet
 

but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is 
they
reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become 
available

once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full
  



stories.
 

Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free 
use of

the spectrum.

http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416



  





 



--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17

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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Bob Moldashel
Interesting how the 5 Ghz spectrum gets resolved right after they come 
up with the taxing idea.   And one needs to wonder who came up with the 
great idea of taxing unlicensed spectrum.  It surely wasn't George 
hyimself.


-B-



Brian Webster wrote:


Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the
unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax
Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet
but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they
reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available
once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories.
Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of
the spectrum.

http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416

 




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

--
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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Rick Smith


yeah, how about allowing any wattage on ptmp links in exchange for the 
tax, THAT i'd like.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

I like the idea of offering to be taxed for something in exchange.  
This way at least we get something WE VALUE instead of settling for 
something stupid later on.  I've been playing a lot of poker lately.  
First to act usually wins the pot.  Let's try acting first.  Always 
reacting sucks.


John Scrivner wrote:

Sorry to reply to my own post here but I forgot one important part of 
this I meant to include. Under this policy we would suggest that 
unlicensed spectrum would remain absolutely free of charges. The fees 
would only apply to all un-auctioned whitespace in all bands across 
the entire radio spectrum that are neither currently assigned or 
unlicensed for other uses..

Scriv


John Scrivner wrote:

How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base 
station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives 
first in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography 
in the channel registered for each base station? Then everyone would 
have the ability to have access to spectrum with some rights to 
prevent interference and have something that investors could be 
comfortable with investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum 
class split we have now where some have rights of licensed use and 
others (like us) cannot play in the game without using spectrum with 
no spectrum rights (unlicensed). The government could have the 
revenues they demand which they normally get from auctions which I 
oppose due to the inability for smaller operators to have a chance 
to buy in.

Just a thought.
Scriv


Rudy Worrell wrote:


Time to organize troops... Nuff said!

Who's got lead?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Blair Davis
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

Now we know why they want the 477 forms.

Brian Webster wrote:

 

Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to 
tax the
unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a 
plan to tax
Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will 
do it
  




yet
 

but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news 
is they
reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become 
available

once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full
  




stories.
 

Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free 
use of

the spectrum.

http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416



  






 




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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread John Scrivner
If I read this right it does not specifically mention unlicensed 
spectrum but does refer to spectrum not already auctioned which could 
mean whitespace. We probably have a chance to spin this to our advantage 
unless you guys all would rather just bitch and moan.

Scriv



Bob Moldashel wrote:

Interesting how the 5 Ghz spectrum gets resolved right after they come 
up with the taxing idea.   And one needs to wonder who came up with 
the great idea of taxing unlicensed spectrum.  It surely wasn't George 
hyimself.


-B-



Brian Webster wrote:


Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the
unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan 
to tax
Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do 
it yet

but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they
reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become 
available
once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full 
stories.
Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free 
use of

the spectrum.

http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416

 





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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
Ha.  I reread my post.  I don't want to be taxed out of business, but a 
few pennies *right* here or there in exchange for the right thing might 
be worth it.


Rick Smith wrote:



yeah, how about allowing any wattage on ptmp links in exchange for the 
tax, THAT i'd like.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

I like the idea of offering to be taxed for something in exchange.  
This way at least we get something WE VALUE instead of settling for 
something stupid later on.  I've been playing a lot of poker lately.  
First to act usually wins the pot.  Let's try acting first.  Always 
reacting sucks.


John Scrivner wrote:

Sorry to reply to my own post here but I forgot one important part 
of this I meant to include. Under this policy we would suggest that 
unlicensed spectrum would remain absolutely free of charges. The 
fees would only apply to all un-auctioned whitespace in all bands 
across the entire radio spectrum that are neither currently assigned 
or unlicensed for other uses..

Scriv


John Scrivner wrote:

How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base 
station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives 
first in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography 
in the channel registered for each base station? Then everyone 
would have the ability to have access to spectrum with some rights 
to prevent interference and have something that investors could be 
comfortable with investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum 
class split we have now where some have rights of licensed use and 
others (like us) cannot play in the game without using spectrum 
with no spectrum rights (unlicensed). The government could have the 
revenues they demand which they normally get from auctions which I 
oppose due to the inability for smaller operators to have a chance 
to buy in.

Just a thought.
Scriv


Rudy Worrell wrote:


Time to organize troops... Nuff said!

Who's got lead?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Blair Davis
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

Now we know why they want the 477 forms.

Brian Webster wrote:

 

Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to 
tax the
unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a 
plan to tax
Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they 
will do it
  





yet
 

but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news 
is they
reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become 
available

once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full
  





stories.
 

Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly 
free use of

the spectrum.

http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416



  







 





--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17

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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Bob Moldashel

Ok...Here is a quote from the story..

WASHINGTON-President Bush, facing a huge budget deficit, today proposed 
squeezing more money from the nation's airwaves by supporting 
legislative changes that would allow the Federal Communications 
Commission to set user fees on un-auctioned radio spectrum.



It says user fees on un-auctioned radio spectrum

Granted the press might have mis-stated the story but it reads pretty 
clear to me.  Part 15 is un-auctioned spectrum.  And considering we 
use the spectrum, who wouuld pay the user fees??


And the heading of the story specifically states unlicensed spectrum.

S..I am open to suggestions.  PersonallyI am tired of paying 
money for everything and getting nothing in return.  But I'm a team 
player so lead on


-B-


John Scrivner wrote:

If I read this right it does not specifically mention unlicensed 
spectrum but does refer to spectrum not already auctioned which could 
mean whitespace. We probably have a chance to spin this to our 
advantage unless you guys all would rather just bitch and moan.

Scriv






--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Travis Johnson
I would have to agree. Any new spectrum would be taxable. I would be 
ok with that, if it meant new spectrum.


Travis
Microserv

John Scrivner wrote:

If I read this right it does not specifically mention unlicensed 
spectrum but does refer to spectrum not already auctioned which could 
mean whitespace. We probably have a chance to spin this to our 
advantage unless you guys all would rather just bitch and moan.

Scriv



Bob Moldashel wrote:

Interesting how the 5 Ghz spectrum gets resolved right after they 
come up with the taxing idea.   And one needs to wonder who came up 
with the great idea of taxing unlicensed spectrum.  It surely wasn't 
George hyimself.


-B-



Brian Webster wrote:

Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax 
the
unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan 
to tax
Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will 
do it yet
but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is 
they
reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become 
available
once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full 
stories.
Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free 
use of

the spectrum.

http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416

 






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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Jeromie Reeves
I do not want to pay tax on the current part-15 spectrum. I find it 
unfair to change the rules half way into a game. How about
opening new part-15 spectrum with those rules. Someone said to give 
first right of way to the first operator on a specific channel.
This is a bad idea for the current p-15 spectrum. There should also be 
rules on this new spectrum preventing one operator from
having a lock on more then 30% of the spectrum in ant given area or we 
will see people dumping AP's and doing nothing useful
just like the evil patent holding companies. It should also come with a 
6month or less use it or lose it tag. If you get a license for
first rights in area XCV then you better get to using it or let someone 
else in to use it. Ive got my asbestos skivvies so flame on.


Jeromie Reeves


John Scrivner wrote:

If I read this right it does not specifically mention unlicensed 
spectrum but does refer to spectrum not already auctioned which could 
mean whitespace. We probably have a chance to spin this to our 
advantage unless you guys all would rather just bitch and moan.

Scriv



Bob Moldashel wrote:

Interesting how the 5 Ghz spectrum gets resolved right after they 
come up with the taxing idea.   And one needs to wonder who came up 
with the great idea of taxing unlicensed spectrum.  It surely wasn't 
George hyimself.


-B-



Brian Webster wrote:

Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax 
the
unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan 
to tax
Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will 
do it yet
but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is 
they
reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become 
available
once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full 
stories.
Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free 
use of

the spectrum.

http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416

 






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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Rudolph Worrell
This is a good thought to get something out of the deal.  I really think that 
we need access to utility easments.

Imagine putting an AP everywhere the cable and phone company aggregates thier 
fiber/wires etc.  Imagine being able to put an AP on or near a stop sign or 
anywhere you deem necessary to deliver your service.  This would greatly help 
our LOS problems and bandwidth issues.


Quoting John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base 
 station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives first 
 in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography in the 
 channel registered for each base station? Then everyone would have the 
 ability to have access to spectrum with some rights to prevent 
 interference and have something that investors could be comfortable with 
 investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum class split we have now 
 where some have rights of licensed use and others (like us) cannot play 
 in the game without using spectrum with no spectrum rights (unlicensed). 
 The government could have the revenues they demand which they normally 
 get from auctions which I oppose due to the inability for smaller 
 operators to have a chance to buy in.
 Just a thought.
 Scriv
 
 
 Rudy Worrell wrote:
 
 Time to organize troops... Nuff said!
 
 Who's got lead?
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Blair Davis
 Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
 
 Now we know why they want the 477 forms.
 
 Brian Webster wrote:
 
   
 
 Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the
 unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax
 Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it
 
 
 yet
   
 
 but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they
 reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available
 once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full
 
 
 stories.
   
 
 Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of
 the spectrum.
 
 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539
 
 
 
 Thank You,
 Brian Webster
 www.wirelessmapping.com
 Free World Dialup #481416
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Rudolph Worrell
Hey no pun intended but who is the guy that gets to say I told you so? 
-- 


Quoting Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Well...They sure couldn't have timed it any better.
 
 Now we will see how many people file.   24 Hours ago i would have said 
 this never would have occured. Now.Well...Let me just say I am tired 
 of paying for everything in the land of the free and the home of the 
 brave
 
 -B-
 
 
 
 
 Blair Davis wrote:
 
  Now we know why they want the 477 forms.
 
  Brian Webster wrote:
 
  Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the
  unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan 
  to tax
  Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do 
  it yet
  but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they
  reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become 
  available
  once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full 
  stories.
  Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free 
  use of
  the spectrum.
 
  http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
  http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539
 
 
 
  Thank You,
  Brian Webster
  www.wirelessmapping.com
  Free World Dialup #481416
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 Bob Moldashel
 Lakeland Communications, Inc.
 Broadband Deployment Group
 1350 Lincoln Avenue
 Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
 800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
 631-585-5558 Fax
 516-551-1131 Cell
 
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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Rudolph Worrell
Good one.  

On a serious note though we need to get the membership up to do any of this.

To the powers that be can I help in ramping up support.  I could dedicate a 
resouce to call you sorry sons like myself and take your money :).




Quoting John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 If I read this right it does not specifically mention unlicensed 
 spectrum but does refer to spectrum not already auctioned which could 
 mean whitespace. We probably have a chance to spin this to our advantage 
 unless you guys all would rather just bitch and moan.
 Scriv
 
 
 
 Bob Moldashel wrote:
 
  Interesting how the 5 Ghz spectrum gets resolved right after they come 
  up with the taxing idea.   And one needs to wonder who came up with 
  the great idea of taxing unlicensed spectrum.  It surely wasn't George 
  hyimself.
 
  -B-
 
 
 
  Brian Webster wrote:
 
  Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the
  unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan 
  to tax
  Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do 
  it yet
  but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they
  reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become 
  available
  once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full 
  stories.
  Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free 
  use of
  the spectrum.
 
  http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
  http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539
 
 
 
  Thank You,
  Brian Webster
  www.wirelessmapping.com
  Free World Dialup #481416
 
   
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Rudolph Worrell
Mac,

I am with you.  We need to be very aware but also plan and propose so that we 
are not spoken for in an ill way.

One thing that would really help here and on the paid side of things is to have 
clear goals, leadership, and direction.



Quoting Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

   I say whoooa mule!
 
 I think before we jump the gun we ought to see what lies ahead of 
 us. If they plan on taxing the free spectrum it will have to be done at 
 the manufacturers level. There is no way to tax us per device and if we 
 are taxed per user  - - - then we will just pass that on to the end 
 user. Ultimately all taxes will have to be passed down to the end user - 
 it always has been - - -it always will be. I dont mind paying the taxes, 
 its all that damn collecting and book keeping I hate. It seems that 
 Uncle Sams money always get intermingled with mine and then I try to 
 find ways to keep it :-)
   
   From what I have read earlier today its not a done deal ad 
 its just talk at this time. We do need to keep our ears to the ground 
 and our eyes open though and if we can lead the horse rather than eat 
 dust from the Cavalry ahead of us would be a choice place to be.
 
 Mac Dearman
 Maximum Access, LLC
 Authorized Barracuda Reseller
 MikroTik RouterOS Certified
 www.inetsouth.com
 www.mac-tel.us (VoIP Sales)
 www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
 318.728.8600  
 318.728.9600
 318.303.4227
 
 
 
 
 John Scrivner wrote:
 
  How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base 
  station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives first 
  in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography in the 
  channel registered for each base station? Then everyone would have the 
  ability to have access to spectrum with some rights to prevent 
  interference and have something that investors could be comfortable 
  with investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum class split we 
  have now where some have rights of licensed use and others (like us) 
  cannot play in the game without using spectrum with no spectrum rights 
  (unlicensed). The government could have the revenues they demand which 
  they normally get from auctions which I oppose due to the inability 
  for smaller operators to have a chance to buy in.
  Just a thought.
  Scriv
 
 
  Rudy Worrell wrote:
 
  Time to organize troops... Nuff said!
 
  Who's got lead?
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
  Behalf Of Blair Davis
  Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
 
  Now we know why they want the 477 forms.
 
  Brian Webster wrote:
 
   
 
  Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax 
  the
  unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan 
  to tax
  Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will 
  do it

 
  yet
   
 
  but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is 
  they
  reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become 
  available
  once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full

 
  stories.
   
 
  Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free 
  use of
  the spectrum.
 
  http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
  http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539
 
 
 
  Thank You,
  Brian Webster
  www.wirelessmapping.com
  Free World Dialup #481416
 
 
 

 
 
 
   
 
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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Jeromie Reeves
This sounds allot like what Mark K was talking about. WISPA needs to 
find out what the deal is and (imo) fight
any taxing on license free bands. P-15 spectrum built the wisp 
industry as it is today and people need it so it
can build the next wave of wispdom. Taxes will make RD money dry up and 
any end products that do make it
cost more. More/New taxes = more/new book keeping = higher cost of 
operations = higher price for products.
A new spectrum (5.4ghz?) with taxes setup on it from the get go and 
other features (first rights, limited camping,
and higher erip) would be very nice. I would be willing to pay for such 
but not on current spectrum, its just to

clogged up with so much consumer hardware.

Jeromie Reeves

Mac Dearman wrote:


 I say whoooa mule!

   I think before we jump the gun we ought to see what lies ahead of 
us. If they plan on taxing the free spectrum it will have to be done 
at the manufacturers level. There is no way to tax us per device and 
if we are taxed per user  - - - then we will just pass that on to 
the end user. Ultimately all taxes will have to be passed down to the 
end user - it always has been - - -it always will be. I dont mind 
paying the taxes, its all that damn collecting and book keeping I 
hate. It seems that Uncle Sams money always get intermingled with mine 
and then I try to find ways to keep it :-)
 
 From what I have read earlier today its not a done deal 
ad its just talk at this time. We do need to keep our ears to the 
ground and our eyes open though and if we can lead the horse rather 
than eat dust from the Cavalry ahead of us would be a choice place to be.


Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us (VoIP Sales)
www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
318.728.8600  318.728.9600
318.303.4227




John Scrivner wrote:

How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base 
station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives 
first in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography in 
the channel registered for each base station? Then everyone would 
have the ability to have access to spectrum with some rights to 
prevent interference and have something that investors could be 
comfortable with investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum 
class split we have now where some have rights of licensed use and 
others (like us) cannot play in the game without using spectrum with 
no spectrum rights (unlicensed). The government could have the 
revenues they demand which they normally get from auctions which I 
oppose due to the inability for smaller operators to have a chance to 
buy in.

Just a thought.
Scriv


Rudy Worrell wrote:


Time to organize troops... Nuff said!

Who's got lead?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Blair Davis
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

Now we know why they want the 477 forms.

Brian Webster wrote:

 

Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to 
tax the
unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan 
to tax
Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will 
do it
  



yet
 

but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is 
they
reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become 
available

once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full
  



stories.
 

Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free 
use of

the spectrum.

http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416



  





 



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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Jeromie Reeves
Right of Way access is available to anyone right now. Ask your local 
city/county for the ROW contracts

that they have with the gas, cable, telco, electric, and others.

Jeromie Reeves


Rudolph Worrell wrote:

This is a good thought to get something out of the deal.  I really think that 
we need access to utility easments.


Imagine putting an AP everywhere the cable and phone company aggregates thier 
fiber/wires etc.  Imagine being able to put an AP on or near a stop sign or 
anywhere you deem necessary to deliver your service.  This would greatly help 
our LOS problems and bandwidth issues.



Quoting John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 

How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base 
station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives first 
in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography in the 
channel registered for each base station? Then everyone would have the 
ability to have access to spectrum with some rights to prevent 
interference and have something that investors could be comfortable with 
investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum class split we have now 
where some have rights of licensed use and others (like us) cannot play 
in the game without using spectrum with no spectrum rights (unlicensed). 
The government could have the revenues they demand which they normally 
get from auctions which I oppose due to the inability for smaller 
operators to have a chance to buy in.

Just a thought.
Scriv


Rudy Worrell wrote:

   


Time to organize troops... Nuff said!

Who's got lead?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Blair Davis
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

Now we know why they want the 477 forms.

Brian Webster wrote:



 


Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the
unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax
Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it
  

   


yet


 


but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they
reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available
once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full
  

   


stories.


 


Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of
the spectrum.

http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416



  

   




 


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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Mark Koskenmaki

How could anyone enforce a user fee on ISM bands?

There are countless millions of devices in use, and tracking down and
enforcing thier use would be an absurd proposition.

Taxing equipment that uses it would be the most likely, but even that has
issues.   I  don't think they're intending to tax every bluetooth, lan, or
baby monitoring device in the country.   That would be a daunting
proposition, to be sure.

This leaves the notion of 'user fees' to allow a quasi-unlicensed use of
open spectrum.

All in all, not a terribly bad idea, if it means we can get access to more
spectrum AND at the same time, not face huge auction or license fees up
front, but instead a pay-as-you-go for spectrum with no interference.




North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-
- Original Message - 
From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today


 Ok...Here is a quote from the story..

 WASHINGTON-President Bush, facing a huge budget deficit, today proposed
 squeezing more money from the nation's airwaves by supporting
 legislative changes that would allow the Federal Communications
 Commission to set user fees on un-auctioned radio spectrum.


 It says user fees on un-auctioned radio spectrum

 Granted the press might have mis-stated the story but it reads pretty
 clear to me.  Part 15 is un-auctioned spectrum.  And considering we
 use the spectrum, who wouuld pay the user fees??

 And the heading of the story specifically states unlicensed spectrum.

 S..I am open to suggestions.  PersonallyI am tired of paying
 money for everything and getting nothing in return.  But I'm a team
 player so lead on

 -B-


 John Scrivner wrote:

  If I read this right it does not specifically mention unlicensed
  spectrum but does refer to spectrum not already auctioned which could
  mean whitespace. We probably have a chance to spin this to our
  advantage unless you guys all would rather just bitch and moan.
  Scriv
 
 
 


 -- 
 Bob Moldashel
 Lakeland Communications, Inc.
 Broadband Deployment Group
 1350 Lincoln Avenue
 Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
 800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
 631-585-5558 Fax
 516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Tom DeReggi
First, the rcrnews feed is meaningless. It lacked all detail and clarity, to 
understand what it meant.
Second, It is impairative that existing Unlicensed Spectrum NEVER get taxed, 
and that users and providers of it, NEVER get taxed.
Unlicensed spectrum belongs to the people. Whn I charge a client I don;t 
charge them for spectrum use, I charge them to cover all my other costs 
(Roof rental, staff, support, etc). I'm charging for services not spectrum.
Third, If Taxed, its important that the tax not only be to providers of AP 
and the service. The reason is that there are not enough providers of APs 
that it will have any meaningful impact on dollars raised for the 
governement, UNLESS we are taxed heavy. And we don;t want that. If a tax on 
unlicensed were to happen, we'd want the tax to get charged to Radio 
manufacturers based on number of radios made. The reason is that consumer 
home devices are what are sold in MASS quantity, and a tax per device sold, 
would allow the governemnt to get the largest volume of tax, and most 
profit, at the least impact to a single indiviudal.  It would allow the 
lowest tax per user, because the largest dominant group of users would be 
included. The idea is that we do not want WISPs to be the one that take all 
the burden. It will likely put us out of business if we had to, and we would 
be the ones most hurt if we were targeted.
Fourth, I am NOT apposed to creating a per user tax for NEWLY allocated 
spectrum for our industry. The governement is unlikely to allocate spectrum 
to us because the billions they can auction it for. If the governement gave 
up the auctioned revenue, in favor of giving it to us (investing/financing 
us) it would be appropriate to allow the governemtn to put a plan in place 
for compensation. A per user tax, is a way that ALL provider could have the 
right to play in the game, and only pay an amount proportional to the number 
of subscribers they had paying revenue.  However, there is a big problem in 
taxing per user. Its that spectrum usage does not match customer size, in 
most cases. If one company decided to use all 6 channels for one customer, 
their tax payment would be much less than than a large number of users 
sharing a single channel.  What they could do is tax providers/users, based 
on per Mhz in a spectrum range allocated, and per timeslice transmitted. So 
instead of charging per user, it could be charged per MB of through put. 
Use more, pay more. However, that would be IMPOSSIBLE to track, prove, and 
inforce.


Its important to distinguish the fine print in legislation that would allow 
for taxing unlicensed in general apposed to taxing or charging per user of 
new spectrum that is allocated.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Blair Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List 
wireless@wispa.org

Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today



Now we know why they want the 477 forms.

Brian Webster wrote:


Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the
unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax
Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it 
yet

but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they
reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available
once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full 
stories.

Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of
the spectrum.

http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416





--
Blair Davis

AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC

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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Tom DeReggi
There is no evidence that the 5.4Ghz spectrum issue is resolved, but it sure 
was convenient for them to through it out there as hope, to reduce the 
repercusions of the proposed TAXes.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List 
wireless@wispa.org

Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today


Interesting how the 5 Ghz spectrum gets resolved right after they come up 
with the taxing idea.   And one needs to wonder who came up with the great 
idea of taxing unlicensed spectrum.  It surely wasn't George hyimself.


-B-



Brian Webster wrote:


Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the
unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax
Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it 
yet

but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they
reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available
once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full 
stories.

Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of
the spectrum.

http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416





--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread John Scrivner
I think you and I said the same thing with one exception. Due to 
difficulty in tracking per user per megahertz I think it would be 
simpler to just have a per base station fee. The fee could be scaled by 
the amount (Mhz) of spectrum used in the base station. This would only 
be for new spectrum and would not be for unlicensed spectrum. This is a 
carrot that could well justify WISPs getting some usable spectrum with 
higher power and some spectrum rights. Congress will not likely just 
give away more spectrum without having some way of creating some revenue 
stream from it. This does not mean I support taxation. I am trying to 
find a compromise we can all live with while producing some value for WISPs.

Scriv


Tom DeReggi wrote:

First, the rcrnews feed is meaningless. It lacked all detail and 
clarity, to understand what it meant.
Second, It is impairative that existing Unlicensed Spectrum NEVER get 
taxed, and that users and providers of it, NEVER get taxed.
Unlicensed spectrum belongs to the people. Whn I charge a client I 
don;t charge them for spectrum use, I charge them to cover all my 
other costs (Roof rental, staff, support, etc). I'm charging for 
services not spectrum.
Third, If Taxed, its important that the tax not only be to providers 
of AP and the service. The reason is that there are not enough 
providers of APs that it will have any meaningful impact on dollars 
raised for the governement, UNLESS we are taxed heavy. And we don;t 
want that. If a tax on unlicensed were to happen, we'd want the tax to 
get charged to Radio manufacturers based on number of radios made. The 
reason is that consumer home devices are what are sold in MASS 
quantity, and a tax per device sold, would allow the governemnt to get 
the largest volume of tax, and most profit, at the least impact to a 
single indiviudal.  It would allow the lowest tax per user, because 
the largest dominant group of users would be included. The idea is 
that we do not want WISPs to be the one that take all the burden. It 
will likely put us out of business if we had to, and we would be the 
ones most hurt if we were targeted.
Fourth, I am NOT apposed to creating a per user tax for NEWLY 
allocated spectrum for our industry. The governement is unlikely to 
allocate spectrum to us because the billions they can auction it for. 
If the governement gave up the auctioned revenue, in favor of giving 
it to us (investing/financing us) it would be appropriate to allow the 
governemtn to put a plan in place for compensation. A per user tax, is 
a way that ALL provider could have the right to play in the game, and 
only pay an amount proportional to the number of subscribers they had 
paying revenue.  However, there is a big problem in taxing per user. 
Its that spectrum usage does not match customer size, in most cases. 
If one company decided to use all 6 channels for one customer, their 
tax payment would be much less than than a large number of users 
sharing a single channel.  What they could do is tax providers/users, 
based on per Mhz in a spectrum range allocated, and per timeslice 
transmitted. So instead of charging per user, it could be charged per 
MB of through put. Use more, pay more. However, that would be 
IMPOSSIBLE to track, prove, and inforce.


Its important to distinguish the fine print in legislation that would 
allow for taxing unlicensed in general apposed to taxing or charging 
per user of new spectrum that is allocated.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Blair Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List 
wireless@wispa.org

Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today



Now we know why they want the 477 forms.

Brian Webster wrote:

Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax 
the
unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan 
to tax
Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will 
do it yet
but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is 
they
reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become 
available
once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full 
stories.
Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free 
use of

the spectrum.

http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416





--
Blair Davis

AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC

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WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Tom DeReggi
I HIGHLY recommmend that the WISP industry pitch support for charging fees 
or taxes to providers that use TV WHITE SPACE. We need that more than 
anything, as its the most valuable spectrum left. The chances of us getting 
it today, are null and slim, from what I see. An offer from the WISP 
community suggesting ways that revenue could be made by giving it to the 
public (us) for residual income based on our effect use of it, that would 
allow us all to share it instead of a few buy it, is well worth it. Just 
stop to think what harm it would do to our industry if Verizon, bought the 
TV whitespaces if/when they were auctioned off, or if they were left to the 
broadcast industry to deploy their own wireless services to compete agaisnt 
us? Just like the Power company. They realize they may have an asset, worth 
more to them if they keep it, nto for TV but to compete against us.  So yes, 
john, of course, start spinning. How can we turn it to spectrum allocation. 
It sounds like a introduction for an opportunity to propose. Lets write a 
proposal to give them listing the terms we'd except without tons of uproar. 
The secret thoguh is to make it a change that happens this candentacy, 
before the next election. Its been mentioned that spectrum allocation is 
unlikely to happen until after the election, to avoid creating enemies 
before election time. Its better to just make promises to everyone instead, 
and then they aren't to blame, when the answer is, sorry the new president 
changed his mind what he wanted.


Any ruling that can be made this year, is a good ruling, if we get something 
out of it as an industry.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today


If I read this right it does not specifically mention unlicensed spectrum 
but does refer to spectrum not already auctioned which could mean 
whitespace. We probably have a chance to spin this to our advantage unless 
you guys all would rather just bitch and moan.

Scriv



Bob Moldashel wrote:

Interesting how the 5 Ghz spectrum gets resolved right after they come up 
with the taxing idea.   And one needs to wonder who came up with the 
great idea of taxing unlicensed spectrum.  It surely wasn't George 
hyimself.


-B-



Brian Webster wrote:


Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the
unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to 
tax
Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it 
yet

but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they
reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become 
available
once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full 
stories.
Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use 
of

the spectrum.

http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416






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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Tom DeReggi
It would grandfather all existing devices. And charge manufacturers for all 
future production runs. Or they could charge a tax in retail stores similar 
to sales tax, called broadband equipment tax.  Aren't they already taxing 
broadband equipment, sale tax.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today


There is no way they can tax the existing unlicensed frequencies now. How 
will they regulate all the Linksys routers being sold at Circuit City? And 
cordless phones that operate in 900mhz, 2.4ghz and 5.8ghz.


Travis
Microserv

Bob Moldashel wrote:


Well...They sure couldn't have timed it any better.

Now we will see how many people file.   24 Hours ago i would have said 
this never would have occured. Now.Well...Let me just say I am tired 
of paying for everything in the land of the free and the home of the 
brave


-B-




Blair Davis wrote:


Now we know why they want the 477 forms.

Brian Webster wrote:

Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax 
the
unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to 
tax
Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do 
it yet
but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is 
they
reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become 
available
once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full 
stories.
Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use 
of

the spectrum.

http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416










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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Tom DeReggi
The last thing we want to do is have the tax hidden from the public, in the 
WISPs payables.

Consumers won;t understand why we have to raide our prices to cover it.
If its a tax that goes on our invoice, we jsutrefer them to their senator to 
complain.
If its a tax on the bill to the custoemr, we can advertsie lower prices, and 
tax on the tax after the fact liek the ILECs do today.

the last thing I want is another cost, that Ican;t bill out to someone else.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Rudolph Worrell [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today


This is a good thought to get something out of the deal.  I really think 
that

we need access to utility easments.

Imagine putting an AP everywhere the cable and phone company aggregates 
thier
fiber/wires etc.  Imagine being able to put an AP on or near a stop sign 
or
anywhere you deem necessary to deliver your service.  This would greatly 
help

our LOS problems and bandwidth issues.


Quoting John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base
station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives first
in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography in the
channel registered for each base station? Then everyone would have the
ability to have access to spectrum with some rights to prevent
interference and have something that investors could be comfortable with
investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum class split we have now
where some have rights of licensed use and others (like us) cannot play
in the game without using spectrum with no spectrum rights (unlicensed).
The government could have the revenues they demand which they normally
get from auctions which I oppose due to the inability for smaller
operators to have a chance to buy in.
Just a thought.
Scriv


Rudy Worrell wrote:

Time to organize troops... Nuff said!

Who's got lead?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Blair Davis
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

Now we know why they want the 477 forms.

Brian Webster wrote:



Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax 
the
unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to 
tax
Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do 
it



yet


but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is 
they
reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become 
available

once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full


stories.


Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use 
of

the spectrum.

http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416









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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Tom DeReggi
Be aware that WISP's businesses will retain the largest value, if further 
spectrum is NOT allocated. When their is a shortage, our preferred early 
entry into the game to more advantageously get away using the existing 
spectrum, makes our assets more valuable. Better spectrum protection in 
future spectrum allocations, means new entrants into the industry will have 
a strategic advantage over existing WISPs that have invested and deployed. I 
highly recommend that future allocations of similar spectrum are NOT 
delivered in a way more advantageous than the existing rules of unlicensed 
spectrum ranges. Allthough, that opinion may hinder growth of the industry, 
it protects the companies that have built this indutry to what it is today.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today


This sounds allot like what Mark K was talking about. WISPA needs to find 
out what the deal is and (imo) fight
any taxing on license free bands. P-15 spectrum built the wisp industry 
as it is today and people need it so it
can build the next wave of wispdom. Taxes will make RD money dry up and 
any end products that do make it
cost more. More/New taxes = more/new book keeping = higher cost of 
operations = higher price for products.
A new spectrum (5.4ghz?) with taxes setup on it from the get go and other 
features (first rights, limited camping,
and higher erip) would be very nice. I would be willing to pay for such 
but not on current spectrum, its just to

clogged up with so much consumer hardware.

Jeromie Reeves

Mac Dearman wrote:


 I say whoooa mule!

   I think before we jump the gun we ought to see what lies ahead of us. 
If they plan on taxing the free spectrum it will have to be done at the 
manufacturers level. There is no way to tax us per device and if we are 
taxed per user  - - - then we will just pass that on to the end user. 
Ultimately all taxes will have to be passed down to the end user - it 
always has been - - -it always will be. I dont mind paying the taxes, its 
all that damn collecting and book keeping I hate. It seems that Uncle 
Sams money always get intermingled with mine and then I try to find ways 
to keep it :-)
 From what I have read earlier today its not a done deal ad its just talk 
at this time. We do need to keep our ears to the ground and our eyes open 
though and if we can lead the horse rather than eat dust from the Cavalry 
ahead of us would be a choice place to be.


Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us (VoIP Sales)
www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
318.728.8600  318.728.9600
318.303.4227




John Scrivner wrote:

How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base 
station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives first 
in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography in the 
channel registered for each base station? Then everyone would have the 
ability to have access to spectrum with some rights to prevent 
interference and have something that investors could be comfortable with 
investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum class split we have now 
where some have rights of licensed use and others (like us) cannot play 
in the game without using spectrum with no spectrum rights (unlicensed). 
The government could have the revenues they demand which they normally 
get from auctions which I oppose due to the inability for smaller 
operators to have a chance to buy in.

Just a thought.
Scriv


Rudy Worrell wrote:


Time to organize troops... Nuff said!

Who's got lead?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Blair Davis
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

Now we know why they want the 477 forms.

Brian Webster wrote:


Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax 
the
unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to 
tax
Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do 
it





yet

but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is 
they
reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become 
available

once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full




stories.

Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use 
of

the spectrum.

http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416












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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Tom DeReggi
They can't. So it means they will tax every ISP that claims that they use 
it.

They will tax our revenue not the users.
And it will mean the for profit providers will take the burden isntead of 
the hundreds of backyard companies degrading the value of offering 
broadband. Taxing will incourage offering unlicensed FREE.  I do not believe 
a tax should be exclusive to those that make money on it, thats irrelevent. 
The tax should be based on how much somebody uses of it, not pays for it. 
The reason is that the amount someone pays is not a reflection of the 
spectrum but a reflection of how much value the provider adds. I don;t want 
to be taxed more  because I offer more value.


Instead what I propose is that the givernemtn set up afund to give free 
equipment to end users that request funds, and then they get taxed over the 
next 20 years to pay back that fund. Instead of universal service fund, it 
would be uiversal equipment fund. Get rid of upfront equipment costs that 
slow growth of WISPs, and make the customer pay for it over time. Let hte 
governement be our VC partner :-)


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today




How could anyone enforce a user fee on ISM bands?

There are countless millions of devices in use, and tracking down and
enforcing thier use would be an absurd proposition.

Taxing equipment that uses it would be the most likely, but even that has
issues.   I  don't think they're intending to tax every bluetooth, lan, or
baby monitoring device in the country.   That would be a daunting
proposition, to be sure.

This leaves the notion of 'user fees' to allow a quasi-unlicensed use of
open spectrum.

All in all, not a terribly bad idea, if it means we can get access to more
spectrum AND at the same time, not face huge auction or license fees up
front, but instead a pay-as-you-go for spectrum with no interference.




North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-
- Original Message - 
From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today



Ok...Here is a quote from the story..

WASHINGTON-President Bush, facing a huge budget deficit, today proposed
squeezing more money from the nation's airwaves by supporting
legislative changes that would allow the Federal Communications
Commission to set user fees on un-auctioned radio spectrum.


It says user fees on un-auctioned radio spectrum

Granted the press might have mis-stated the story but it reads pretty
clear to me.  Part 15 is un-auctioned spectrum.  And considering we
use the spectrum, who wouuld pay the user fees??

And the heading of the story specifically states unlicensed spectrum.

S..I am open to suggestions.  PersonallyI am tired of paying
money for everything and getting nothing in return.  But I'm a team
player so lead on

-B-


John Scrivner wrote:

 If I read this right it does not specifically mention unlicensed
 spectrum but does refer to spectrum not already auctioned which could
 mean whitespace. We probably have a chance to spin this to our
 advantage unless you guys all would rather just bitch and moan.
 Scriv





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Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Mac Dearman
 a thought.
Scriv


Rudy Worrell wrote:

 


Time to organize troops... Nuff said!

Who's got lead?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Blair Davis
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

Now we know why they want the 477 forms.

Brian Webster wrote:



   

Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax 
the
unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan 
to tax
Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will 
do it
 
 


yet


   

but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is 
they
reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become 
available

once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full
 
 


stories.


   

Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free 
use of

the spectrum.

http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545
http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416



 
 





   


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Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread John Scrivner
Why would we want to have future bands hindered by bad policy? It will 
not be just new entrants who use it. It will more likely be existing 
WISPs who jump to gain better spectrum to add onto the systems they 
already have. I say we ask for existing bands which are unlicensed to be 
left free and unlicensed. New bands should be available with a user fee 
to allow for a simple way to license the use of the frequencies without 
having to go to an auction highest bidder system as has happened in the 
past. Good spectrum policy will inevitably help WISPs and anyone else 
who has a desire to make use of spectrum and maintain some protections.

Scriv


Tom DeReggi wrote:

Be aware that WISP's businesses will retain the largest value, if 
further spectrum is NOT allocated. When their is a shortage, our 
preferred early entry into the game to more advantageously get away 
using the existing spectrum, makes our assets more valuable. Better 
spectrum protection in future spectrum allocations, means new entrants 
into the industry will have a strategic advantage over existing WISPs 
that have invested and deployed. I highly recommend that future 
allocations of similar spectrum are NOT delivered in a way more 
advantageous than the existing rules of unlicensed spectrum ranges. 
Allthough, that opinion may hinder growth of the industry, it protects 
the companies that have built this indutry to what it is today.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Jeromie Reeves 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today


This sounds allot like what Mark K was talking about. WISPA needs to 
find out what the deal is and (imo) fight
any taxing on license free bands. P-15 spectrum built the wisp 
industry as it is today and people need it so it
can build the next wave of wispdom. Taxes will make RD money dry up 
and any end products that do make it
cost more. More/New taxes = more/new book keeping = higher cost of 
operations = higher price for products.
A new spectrum (5.4ghz?) with taxes setup on it from the get go and 
other features (first rights, limited camping,
and higher erip) would be very nice. I would be willing to pay for 
such but not on current spectrum, its just to

clogged up with so much consumer hardware.

Jeromie Reeves

Mac Dearman wrote:


 I say whoooa mule!

   I think before we jump the gun we ought to see what lies ahead of 
us. If they plan on taxing the free spectrum it will have to be done 
at the manufacturers level. There is no way to tax us per device and 
if we are taxed per user  - - - then we will just pass that on to 
the end user. Ultimately all taxes will have to be passed down to 
the end user - it always has been - - -it always will be. I dont 
mind paying the taxes, its all that damn collecting and book keeping 
I hate. It seems that Uncle Sams money always get intermingled with 
mine and then I try to find ways to keep it :-)
 From what I have read earlier today its not a done deal ad its just 
talk at this time. We do need to keep our ears to the ground and our 
eyes open though and if we can lead the horse rather than eat dust 
from the Cavalry ahead of us would be a choice place to be.


Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us (VoIP Sales)
www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
318.728.8600  318.728.9600
318.303.4227




John Scrivner wrote:

How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base 
station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives 
first in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography 
in the channel registered for each base station? Then everyone 
would have the ability to have access to spectrum with some rights 
to prevent interference and have something that investors could be 
comfortable with investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum 
class split we have now where some have rights of licensed use and 
others (like us) cannot play in the game without using spectrum 
with no spectrum rights (unlicensed). The government could have the 
revenues they demand which they normally get from auctions which I 
oppose due to the inability for smaller operators to have a chance 
to buy in.

Just a thought.
Scriv


Rudy Worrell wrote:


Time to organize troops... Nuff said!

Who's got lead?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Blair Davis
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

Now we know why they want the 477 forms.

Brian Webster wrote:


Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to 
tax the
unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a 
plan to tax
Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum

Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Tom DeReggi
The problem is that I do not like plans that require the payment of money in 
advance of collection of money for service provided.
So allthough paying a fee per AP site, may very well be one of the only 
reasonable ways to successfully develop a solution, I'd prefer there to be a 
solution that is paid for by all not just me. Its not just WISPs that use 
unlicensed. So why should it only be Wireless ISPs that pay for the 
spectrum, without protections?  I'm supportive of a per AP licensing FEE, if 
the spectrum is allocated to WISPs. However, it is not likely to be. It will 
most likely be allocated to unlicensed in general. Able to be used by SCADA, 
Pagers, Home users, Corporations, Extended length Home cordless phones, etc. 
What about PtPs that don;t have a cell site or AP? In order for WISPs to 
pay, we need a unique advantage justifying why we are paying and others 
aren't. For example, if we are given higher power levels for outdoor use, 
that could justify it.
I don;t mind footing the bill for what I is given to us, I just don't want 
to foot the bill for what is given to everyone else.  Unlicensed means 
usable by everyone, for any purpose.  I'm not apposed to partial license 
fees, sorta like 3650M, but with small fees.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today


I think you and I said the same thing with one exception. Due to difficulty 
in tracking per user per megahertz I think it would be simpler to just have 
a per base station fee. The fee could be scaled by the amount (Mhz) of 
spectrum used in the base station. This would only be for new spectrum and 
would not be for unlicensed spectrum. This is a carrot that could well 
justify WISPs getting some usable spectrum with higher power and some 
spectrum rights. Congress will not likely just give away more spectrum 
without having some way of creating some revenue stream from it. This does 
not mean I support taxation. I am trying to find a compromise we can all 
live with while producing some value for WISPs.

Scriv


Tom DeReggi wrote:

First, the rcrnews feed is meaningless. It lacked all detail and clarity, 
to understand what it meant.
Second, It is impairative that existing Unlicensed Spectrum NEVER get 
taxed, and that users and providers of it, NEVER get taxed.
Unlicensed spectrum belongs to the people. Whn I charge a client I don;t 
charge them for spectrum use, I charge them to cover all my other costs 
(Roof rental, staff, support, etc). I'm charging for services not 
spectrum.
Third, If Taxed, its important that the tax not only be to providers of 
AP and the service. The reason is that there are not enough providers of 
APs that it will have any meaningful impact on dollars raised for the 
governement, UNLESS we are taxed heavy. And we don;t want that. If a tax 
on unlicensed were to happen, we'd want the tax to get charged to Radio 
manufacturers based on number of radios made. The reason is that consumer 
home devices are what are sold in MASS quantity, and a tax per device 
sold, would allow the governemnt to get the largest volume of tax, and 
most profit, at the least impact to a single indiviudal.  It would allow 
the lowest tax per user, because the largest dominant group of users 
would be included. The idea is that we do not want WISPs to be the one 
that take all the burden. It will likely put us out of business if we had 
to, and we would be the ones most hurt if we were targeted.
Fourth, I am NOT apposed to creating a per user tax for NEWLY allocated 
spectrum for our industry. The governement is unlikely to allocate 
spectrum to us because the billions they can auction it for. If the 
governement gave up the auctioned revenue, in favor of giving it to us 
(investing/financing us) it would be appropriate to allow the governemtn 
to put a plan in place for compensation. A per user tax, is a way that 
ALL provider could have the right to play in the game, and only pay an 
amount proportional to the number of subscribers they had paying revenue. 
However, there is a big problem in taxing per user. Its that spectrum 
usage does not match customer size, in most cases. If one company decided 
to use all 6 channels for one customer, their tax payment would be much 
less than than a large number of users sharing a single channel.  What 
they could do is tax providers/users, based on per Mhz in a spectrum 
range allocated, and per timeslice transmitted. So instead of charging 
per user, it could be charged per MB of through put. Use more, pay more. 
However, that would be IMPOSSIBLE to track, prove, and inforce.


Its important to distinguish the fine print in legislation that would 
allow for taxing unlicensed in general apposed to taxing or charging per 
user of new spectrum that is allocated

Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Tom DeReggi

mac,

How about we have a march in DC up the steps to the FCC's offices all the 
while surfing the net and sending


I proposed such a thing around the time of ISPCON in DC (Baltimore) this 
year. (Do they trade show, and MArch the same week). Although the show would 
have been supportive, the consensus was that no one would show up to march. 
Its hard to get WISPs off their butt to pay dues, let alone buy plane 
tickets to attend a march.  The impact that it would make to have a few 
thousand ISPs band togeather and march would be amazing. I know CWIA was 
considering to plan a small lobby effort for that week.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:59 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today




 I have complete confidence in our leadership thus far and remember that 
we are an infant organization. I think with the election tomorrow and 
continued support from those who are going into office we are well on our 
way to having a jam up jelly good organization. I know the heart of every 
one of the men who have been instrumental in putting this organization 
together from day one. I know that they want an industry owned, member 
driven power house that will have a say in Washington as well as in 
individual States. The men we will see in office Wednesday are the ones 
who have been the movers and shakers in this industry for years and have 
my utmost allegiance and respect. I cant say that I have agreed with 
everything, but then I dont agree with everything that goes on under my 
own roof either :-)


  I think what we need more than anything to accomplish what we need is a 
very large mouth! That mouth can only be trumpeted by a mass of 
individuals coming together under one umbrella - - WISPA and jointly 
having WISPA speak for us as a whole. I look at what the Gay rights 
activists have accomplished with their lobbying (not that I agree there 
either) although the gay population is really not that large. Its just 
well funded, out spoken, very organized, very active and very seen 
across the country. IMHO we to will have to use some of their tactics, be 
very loud and obnoxious to the point of being pushy and refuse to NOT be 
heard and seen. I think WISPA is the very thing for this industry as it is 
a one of a kind. Its made up of folks like you and me, and Larsen and 
Scriv and Harnish and so on - - just every day good ole boys with an 
agenda. I think that when we hold hands ( I am not gay) and stand up we 
will have to be heard. I dont think that we can be ignored if we go about 
this the right way.


Do you remember the million man march in DC? There really wasnt half that 
many people, but it was the attention they stirred up that makes it so 
memorable. That was in 1995!!! How about we have a march in DC up the 
steps to the FCC's offices all the while surfing the net and sending 
emails to reporters back in our home states, live web cameras rolling 
while Scrivner gives us a whooda thunk it speech. I think there are a 
lot of things we can do once this election is over and done. The election 
is the first step toward accomplishing great things in this industry.


The next real step is membership!! WHO AINT PAID THEM DUES???

Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us (VoIP Sales)
www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
318.728.8600  318.728.9600
318.303.4227




Rudolph Worrell wrote:


Mac,

I am with you.  We need to be very aware but also plan and propose so that 
we are not spoken for in an ill way.


One thing that would really help here and on the paid side of things is to 
have clear goals, leadership, and direction.




Quoting Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED]:



 I say whoooa mule!

   I think before we jump the gun we ought to see what lies ahead of us. 
If they plan on taxing the free spectrum it will have to be done at the 
manufacturers level. There is no way to tax us per device and if we are 
taxed per user  - - - then we will just pass that on to the end user. 
Ultimately all taxes will have to be passed down to the end user - it 
always has been - - -it always will be. I dont mind paying the taxes, 
its all that damn collecting and book keeping I hate. It seems that 
Uncle Sams money always get intermingled with mine and then I try to 
find ways to keep it :-)
 From what I have read earlier today its not a done deal ad its just 
talk at this time. We do need to keep our ears to the ground and our 
eyes open though and if we can lead the horse rather than eat dust from 
the Cavalry ahead of us would be a choice place to be.


Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us (VoIP Sales)
www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
318.728.8600

Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today

2006-02-06 Thread Jeromie Reeves

Can you explain how it is not available? Yes the insurance is killer.

Jeromie Reeves

Bob Moldashel wrote:


Jeromie Reeves wrote:

Right of Way access is available to anyone right now. Ask your local 
city/county for the ROW contracts

that they have with the gas, cable, telco, electric, and others.

Jeromie Reeves



Unfortunately...It is not available in alot of places here in NY and CT.

And where it isthe insurance provisions are a real killer.

-B-



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