Re: [WISPA] How to compete (was) 30Mbps for $55/month!
Grin. Yeah, fiber is going in all over the place. It'll hit every home in the country next week. After all, digging up roads is cheap! I've had a few people leave DSL for our wireless of late. They all report HUGE increases in performance with us. And they love the fact that they can pick up a phone and call us and we'll actually talk to them. A real person and all. To understand where broadband is going I think we only have to look to dialup. Look back to about 1992 and put the broadband industry in 2002 in that spot. The day is coming when people will get 100 meg connections for $10. No one will point out that it's only available to .002% of the users nor that it's ad supported and choc full of spyware. But it'll get all the press. I think that the normal broadband rate is headed for the normal dialup rate of $15 to $25. Speeds (actual not advertised) will be in the 500k to 1.5 meg range. (How many people do you know that pitch a fit because their 56k modem never really hits 56k?) Sure it's going to get tougher to compete. We can still do it cheaper and better than they can. And we can still go places they can't go. And we can get there faster in almost all cases. Amazingly there are still independent auto mechanics, restaurants, doctors, radio stations, garbage collectors etc. Somehow I think that the WISPs won't be going away any time soon. Not unless they totally screw the pooch. laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] How to compete (was) 30Mbps for $55/month! Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Grin. Sure, we'd all pay $50 for 30 megs. So go get it for YOUR connectivity and offer 10 megs for $35 and still make a ton of money! Sorry, can't do it, it's not a resellable connection. However, they will sell you a 30Mbps resellable package for $199/month. As long as we maintain the ability to buy these types of connections I think it's actually a good thing for the wips. Unfortunately, we don't. Our wireless just went from 1.5 megs (was limited by the t-1) to 3 meg with NO increase in cost to the customer. No need for them to call us and ask for the new service either. It just happened for them. The telco NEVER treats their customers that way. Um, Verizon just doubled their DSL speeds everywhere in their territory from 1.5Mbps to 3Mbps at no additional charge. Where I think the whole thing is funny is that the telcos and the cable cos don't normally upgrade every few years like the wisps do. They are putting out 30 by 5 megs how far? Our new gear will do over 20 by 20 megs for MILES in all directions! Tomorrow's gear will make that look like a joke. By the time these guys get around to giving away 50 megs we'll already be giving people 75! You have heard of DOCSIS 2.0 and the newest standard DOCSIS 3.0? You do know that DSL had been upgraded at least three times in the last six year, right? Next up ADSL 2.0+ with 14Mbps (and down from there) As to the 30Mbps package it goes for as far as Verizon wants to install it, it is fiber! As far as 20Mbps symmetrical, so what? The fiber is essentially limitless as far as bandwidth is concerned while the equipment you mentioned is Shared which is really comparing apples to rocks! And unless you know for certain that we are going to get a big chunk of spectrum we are eventually going to reach the limits our bands can provide. Remember, burst and release is a dying business model, the ability to deliver sustained bandwidth speeds is now going to be the rule of the road. This means that 75Mbps shared is not 75Mbps delivered to each customer sustained. BIG difference. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How to compete (was) 30Mbps for $55/month!
- Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] How to compete (was) 30Mbps for $55/month! Marlon, Just so I understand... you are a Wireless ISP, and you sell wireless equipment and you stand in front of the FCC talking about wireless spectrum, policy, etc... and yet you used a Telco to provide your backhaul to another city and for your upstream? Why didn't you use wireless equipment to make the 10meg link? Instead, you will pay the Telco from this day on, forever. :( Time and money. For me to get from noc to noc it would take at LEAST 5 hops. And to drop out the other end with 10 megs of reliable service means I don't get to use the $2500 kits either. Also, I travel a lot (to the FCC and other such entities). If something breaks there's no one here to fix it (I'm still working with 1.75 people here). The real tipping point was the ability for the telco to sell me a system that would do what I could do for myself at the same price as what I could install for myself. AND maintain it. Plus, by using a different upstream provider I cut my upstream costs almost in half. Not that we actually pay a lot upstream. I pay $350 per meg of ACTUAL AVERAGE USAGE for one system and the new stuff (I'm cutting the network in half now too, half with the old provider, half with the new) is coming in at $200. We use about a meg a month in total. As you can see, there were decisions made that go past the *me, me, me* stage. I dislike the telco as much if not more than anyone else. My company is about the customers though. And I believe that the telco maintained system is the way to go for me right now. It was sure tempting to keep going with the idea of putting in stuff for myself though. 5 years of payments and it would be bought and paid for. Then free for a few more years before needing more upgrading. Lots to be said for that. Heck, we're combining two t-1s into one pipe right now. We're only hitting it at about 1 meg at peak hours. I've been feeding this region with a t-1 since '98 or '99. So I really think that 10 megs will be plenty for at least 6 or 7 years. For me, I would rather spend $25k, buy a 45mbps full duplex licensed link, lease it for $1,000 per month and in 3 years I own it and have a free backhaul. In fact, two links that I did that with 34 months ago are almost free... ;) Agreed. IF you can do it with so few links. Out here all the towns are down in the valleys. And they aren't just a few miles apart like most places. The nearest town with a stoplight is 45 miles. The nearest flashing red is over 30. The nearest pizza place is 33. The nearest mall is 80. The nearest chinese food is 45. The nearest competitor is across the street. Well, I moved, now he's two blocks away. Both of them are. Sometimes you guys that have money and cover areas with real population densities just crack me up. Then I get jelous :-). that help? marlon Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Grin. Sure, we'd all pay $50 for 30 megs. So go get it for YOUR connectivity and offer 10 megs for $35 and still make a ton of money! As long as we maintain the ability to buy these types of connections I think it's actually a good thing for the wips. BTW, even out here in Odessa I just dropped a 10 meg vlan to another town and 10 meg upstream connectivity in for $800 per month plus $200 per month per AVERAGE meg used. So I have what amounts to TWO 10 meg pipes that I'll pay under $1000 per month for. This in a county of 10,000 people. Our wireless just went from 1.5 megs (was limited by the t-1) to 3 meg with NO increase in cost to the customer. No need for them to call us and ask for the new service either. It just happened for them. The telco NEVER treats their customers that way. Your link to that article was funny. Just today I was telling someone that WISPs aren't all that much responsible for the bottom falling out of the broadband market (something I've been saying was going to happen for at least 2 years now by the way). It's the cable/dsl customer ownership wars. Where I think the whole thing is funny is that the telcos and the cable cos don't normally upgrade every few years like the wisps do. They are putting out 30 by 5 megs how far? Our new gear will do over 20 by 20 megs for MILES in all directions! Tomorrow's gear will make that look like a joke. By the time these guys get around to giving away 50 megs we'll already be giving people 75! Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original
Re: [WISPA] How to compete (was) 30Mbps for $55/month!
Grin. Sure, we'd all pay $50 for 30 megs. So go get it for YOUR connectivity and offer 10 megs for $35 and still make a ton of money! As long as we maintain the ability to buy these types of connections I think it's actually a good thing for the wips. BTW, even out here in Odessa I just dropped a 10 meg vlan to another town and 10 meg upstream connectivity in for $800 per month plus $200 per month per AVERAGE meg used. So I have what amounts to TWO 10 meg pipes that I'll pay under $1000 per month for. This in a county of 10,000 people. Our wireless just went from 1.5 megs (was limited by the t-1) to 3 meg with NO increase in cost to the customer. No need for them to call us and ask for the new service either. It just happened for them. The telco NEVER treats their customers that way. Your link to that article was funny. Just today I was telling someone that WISPs aren't all that much responsible for the bottom falling out of the broadband market (something I've been saying was going to happen for at least 2 years now by the way). It's the cable/dsl customer ownership wars. Where I think the whole thing is funny is that the telcos and the cable cos don't normally upgrade every few years like the wisps do. They are putting out 30 by 5 megs how far? Our new gear will do over 20 by 20 megs for MILES in all directions! Tomorrow's gear will make that look like a joke. By the time these guys get around to giving away 50 megs we'll already be giving people 75! Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 3:43 PM Subject: [WISPA] How to compete (was) 30Mbps for $55/month! Ah alls well and good but, how about these apples? http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/remark,14309116~root=ool~mode=flat Verizon is offering 30Mbps down/5Mbps up for $54.95/month in selected areas of Long Island to compete with ComCast! As far as VoIP, we use it here because of the friggin' cost of cell phones and/or landlines. Thinking landlines are going to vanish is a tough one for me to swallow especially with the support the FCC seems to be giving the ILECs now. Things are not as clearcut as they seem in this world and while wireless is an awesome feature many people (like me) would pay for speed like this (at pricing like this) for the office and forgo wireless altogether rather than go the other way - and I hate the ILEC as much as anyone. On 9/19/05, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very good post! Also note, more and more people are getting disgusted with the telco for all manner of reasons. And the long term trends look to be an abandonment (by and large) of pots lines. Out here, he's got his cell phone, she's got hers etc. They use wireless internet and cell phones exclusively. No wires at all. It's been pretty interesting to watch it get started. This is another reason why I just can't get my arms around voip. People don't really need it. 10 years ago? You bet. 10 years from today? I don't see it. Not enough of it to make money at. Especially when you conceder that voip services on everyone else's (including mine) look to be the only way for the average clec to survive now. laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Rob Kohli [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 2:15 PM Subject: RE: [WISP] How to compete (was) 30Mbps for $179/mo Well said Robert Kohli President Back Mountain Broadband 1-866-562-9434 www.backmountainisp.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zack Kneisley Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 5:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISP] How to compete (was) 30Mbps for $179/mo I read just about every post on the this list, but usually don't have a lot of time to respond, as I'm sure a lot of WISPS and ISPS do. This topic brings up a very old subject, and I feel the urge to chime in for the benefit of my fellow ISPS WISPS friends and competition alike. It sometimes seems every time we get ahead, we take a step backwards on our ability to be competitive in their business, although it really all comes down to the wonderful fees and taxes we have been paying to the Telco's for years to build out their infrastructure and
Re: [WISPA] How to compete (was) 30Mbps for $55/month!
Marlon, Just so I understand... you are a Wireless ISP, and you sell wireless equipment and you stand in front of the FCC talking about wireless spectrum, policy, etc... and yet you used a Telco to provide your backhaul to another city and for your upstream? Why didn't you use wireless equipment to make the 10meg link? Instead, you will pay the Telco from this day on, forever. :( For me, I would rather spend $25k, buy a 45mbps full duplex licensed link, lease it for $1,000 per month and in 3 years I own it and have a free backhaul. In fact, two links that I did that with 34 months ago are almost free... ;) Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Grin. Sure, we'd all pay $50 for 30 megs. So go get it for YOUR connectivity and offer 10 megs for $35 and still make a ton of money! As long as we maintain the ability to buy these types of connections I think it's actually a good thing for the wips. BTW, even out here in Odessa I just dropped a 10 meg vlan to another town and 10 meg upstream connectivity in for $800 per month plus $200 per month per AVERAGE meg used. So I have what amounts to TWO 10 meg pipes that I'll pay under $1000 per month for. This in a county of 10,000 people. Our wireless just went from 1.5 megs (was limited by the t-1) to 3 meg with NO increase in cost to the customer. No need for them to call us and ask for the new service either. It just happened for them. The telco NEVER treats their customers that way. Your link to that article was funny. Just today I was telling someone that WISPs aren't all that much responsible for the bottom falling out of the broadband market (something I've been saying was going to happen for at least 2 years now by the way). It's the cable/dsl customer ownership wars. Where I think the whole thing is funny is that the telcos and the cable cos don't normally upgrade every few years like the wisps do. They are putting out 30 by 5 megs how far? Our new gear will do over 20 by 20 megs for MILES in all directions! Tomorrow's gear will make that look like a joke. By the time these guys get around to giving away 50 megs we'll already be giving people 75! Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 3:43 PM Subject: [WISPA] How to compete (was) 30Mbps for $55/month! Ah alls well and good but, how about these apples? http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/remark,14309116~root=ool~mode=flat Verizon is offering 30Mbps down/5Mbps up for $54.95/month in selected areas of Long Island to compete with ComCast! As far as VoIP, we use it here because of the friggin' cost of cell phones and/or landlines. Thinking landlines are going to vanish is a tough one for me to swallow especially with the support the FCC seems to be giving the ILECs now. Things are not as clearcut as they seem in this world and while wireless is an awesome feature many people (like me) would pay for speed like this (at pricing like this) for the office and forgo wireless altogether rather than go the other way - and I hate the ILEC as much as anyone. On 9/19/05, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very good post! Also note, more and more people are getting disgusted with the telco for all manner of reasons. And the long term trends look to be an abandonment (by and large) of pots lines. Out here, he's got his cell phone, she's got hers etc. They use wireless internet and cell phones exclusively. No wires at all. It's been pretty interesting to watch it get started. This is another reason why I just can't get my arms around voip. People don't really need it. 10 years ago? You bet. 10 years from today? I don't see it. Not enough of it to make money at. Especially when you conceder that voip services on everyone else's (including mine) look to be the only way for the average clec to survive now. laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Rob Kohli [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 2:15 PM Subject: RE: [WISP] How to compete (was) 30Mbps for $179/mo Well said Robert Kohli President Back Mountain Broadband 1-866-562-9434 www.backmountainisp.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zack
