Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
I don't know to what extent, but at least some of MT's routing previously was open source based, but I believe in 3.0, the open source parts were replaced by Mikrotik coded parts. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS Butch, I agree the MT graphical interface for configuring BGP, OSPF, and stuff, is pretty nice. Can you tell us more about MT's BGP. Is it Quagga, GateD, or their Own? There had been reports that in the past, BGP was buggy on MT, but NOT buggy anymore with more recent V3 code. I was just wondering because I was wondering about compatibilty with other third party BGP implementations used by upstreams using different platforms. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS MT does BGP and Bandwitdh shaping. Much simpler to use compaired to star, at least you get a graphic interface.N-Stream does the same thing. Dennis Burgess Mikrotik Certified Consultant www.linktechs.net George Rogato wrote: Ok What about Butch? Butch can maybe better define the difference between MT and Star as a router considering Star V3 which has been out for a while now. I see Butch on the Star forums, so I'm assuming he knows both quite well. Star does BGP and bandwidth shaping, it's done bandwidth shaping for as long as I can remember, and I started using it before it was known as star-os. It also does duplex, not sure if it's true duplex, but stars duplex uses two radios, one to send and one to receive. Not sure how much of a difference it is between n stream. David E. Smith wrote: Not to be antagonistic, but rather to be better educated, let me ask you this. What does MT do that Star doesn't do in the routing arena? In terms of just routing and basic firewalling, the two are fairly comparable. I'm putting more and more Mikrotik RouterOS in my network because of all the nifty extra stuff it does better than StarOS (or that StarOS doesn't do, period). Keep in mind my shopping list is based mainly upon StarOS 2.x. * Nstreme Dual, a proprietary extension that would be great for busy backhauls (you put in two radio cards and have a full-duplex link, one dedicated to transmit and one to receive at each side of the link) I've never actually used this but it sure sounds nifty... * the ability to act as both a client and a server for pretty much every type of VPN out there (StarOS can do some of this, but it's limited by comparison) * BGP (this existed in StarOS 2.x, but was taken out of early 3.x releases, I heard StarOS might be getting it back someday) and MPLS * ridiculously extensive traffic shaping/queuing capability * pretty GUI (this could be a plus or a minus, actually, as the SSH interface to RouterOS is pretty blah while StarOS' console is quite nice) Ultimately, though, I'd say this sort of thing is about 95% personal preference. For many basic jobs, both of 'em will work just fine; might as well get the one with which you're more familiar. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: 3/17/2008 10:48 AM WISPA Wants You! Join
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
I'm not apposed to a software manufacturers writing their own code. Ultimately it empowers them to make possitive change. The question is.. What's been done to verify compatibilty and reliabilty of it? Is the user going to be the guinea pig? Even Zebra, not maintained for 5 years has a huge historical record behind it, to be predictable at deployment. As more end users start using it, this would take care of itself over time. Unless MT conducted studies on compatibility themselves, and published results. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS I don't know to what extent, but at least some of MT's routing previously was open source based, but I believe in 3.0, the open source parts were replaced by Mikrotik coded parts. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS Butch, I agree the MT graphical interface for configuring BGP, OSPF, and stuff, is pretty nice. Can you tell us more about MT's BGP. Is it Quagga, GateD, or their Own? There had been reports that in the past, BGP was buggy on MT, but NOT buggy anymore with more recent V3 code. I was just wondering because I was wondering about compatibilty with other third party BGP implementations used by upstreams using different platforms. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS MT does BGP and Bandwitdh shaping. Much simpler to use compaired to star, at least you get a graphic interface.N-Stream does the same thing. Dennis Burgess Mikrotik Certified Consultant www.linktechs.net George Rogato wrote: Ok What about Butch? Butch can maybe better define the difference between MT and Star as a router considering Star V3 which has been out for a while now. I see Butch on the Star forums, so I'm assuming he knows both quite well. Star does BGP and bandwidth shaping, it's done bandwidth shaping for as long as I can remember, and I started using it before it was known as star-os. It also does duplex, not sure if it's true duplex, but stars duplex uses two radios, one to send and one to receive. Not sure how much of a difference it is between n stream. David E. Smith wrote: Not to be antagonistic, but rather to be better educated, let me ask you this. What does MT do that Star doesn't do in the routing arena? In terms of just routing and basic firewalling, the two are fairly comparable. I'm putting more and more Mikrotik RouterOS in my network because of all the nifty extra stuff it does better than StarOS (or that StarOS doesn't do, period). Keep in mind my shopping list is based mainly upon StarOS 2.x. * Nstreme Dual, a proprietary extension that would be great for busy backhauls (you put in two radio cards and have a full-duplex link, one dedicated to transmit and one to receive at each side of the link) I've never actually used this but it sure sounds nifty... * the ability to act as both a client and a server for pretty much every type of VPN out there (StarOS can do some of this, but it's limited by comparison) * BGP (this existed in StarOS 2.x, but was taken out of early 3.x releases, I heard StarOS might be getting it back someday) and MPLS * ridiculously extensive traffic shaping/queuing capability * pretty GUI (this could be a plus or a minus, actually, as the SSH interface to RouterOS is pretty blah while StarOS' console is quite nice) Ultimately, though, I'd say this sort of thing is about 95% personal preference. For many basic jobs, both of 'em will work just fine; might as well get the one with which you're more familiar. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
Actually, What I'd be more interested in is... Why did they make the decission to build there own? When there was something already out there satisfactory that could be used? What problems did they have with the common Open source versions, that justified a huge development effort to rebuild from scratch their own? That information could actually strengthen the reason why someone would want to use MT instead, as a benefit, if it were disclosed. What I'd like to see is Whitepapers on what their proprieary versions provided that the others didn't. I guess they can add that to the 10,000 other tasks probably already on their list :-) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS I don't know to what extent, but at least some of MT's routing previously was open source based, but I believe in 3.0, the open source parts were replaced by Mikrotik coded parts. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS Butch, I agree the MT graphical interface for configuring BGP, OSPF, and stuff, is pretty nice. Can you tell us more about MT's BGP. Is it Quagga, GateD, or their Own? There had been reports that in the past, BGP was buggy on MT, but NOT buggy anymore with more recent V3 code. I was just wondering because I was wondering about compatibilty with other third party BGP implementations used by upstreams using different platforms. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS MT does BGP and Bandwitdh shaping. Much simpler to use compaired to star, at least you get a graphic interface.N-Stream does the same thing. Dennis Burgess Mikrotik Certified Consultant www.linktechs.net George Rogato wrote: Ok What about Butch? Butch can maybe better define the difference between MT and Star as a router considering Star V3 which has been out for a while now. I see Butch on the Star forums, so I'm assuming he knows both quite well. Star does BGP and bandwidth shaping, it's done bandwidth shaping for as long as I can remember, and I started using it before it was known as star-os. It also does duplex, not sure if it's true duplex, but stars duplex uses two radios, one to send and one to receive. Not sure how much of a difference it is between n stream. David E. Smith wrote: Not to be antagonistic, but rather to be better educated, let me ask you this. What does MT do that Star doesn't do in the routing arena? In terms of just routing and basic firewalling, the two are fairly comparable. I'm putting more and more Mikrotik RouterOS in my network because of all the nifty extra stuff it does better than StarOS (or that StarOS doesn't do, period). Keep in mind my shopping list is based mainly upon StarOS 2.x. * Nstreme Dual, a proprietary extension that would be great for busy backhauls (you put in two radio cards and have a full-duplex link, one dedicated to transmit and one to receive at each side of the link) I've never actually used this but it sure sounds nifty... * the ability to act as both a client and a server for pretty much every type of VPN out there (StarOS can do some of this, but it's limited by comparison) * BGP (this existed in StarOS 2.x, but was taken out of early 3.x releases, I heard StarOS might be getting it back someday) and MPLS * ridiculously extensive traffic shaping/queuing capability * pretty GUI (this could be a plus or a minus, actually, as the SSH interface to RouterOS is pretty blah while StarOS' console is quite nice) Ultimately, though, I'd say this sort of thing is about 95% personal preference. For many basic jobs, both of 'em will work just fine; might as well get the one with which you're more familiar. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
Honestly, My core is 100% ImageStream Routers. I have no problem trusting them to run, day in, day out, 100% As far as Microtik goes, I'm curious about the question that got pushed aside, what do they use for Dynamic routing? Quagga? Zebra? I ask because from what I've heard they're violating open source licensing with their MPLS implementation. I can't remember from who or where, and honestly I've never touched a Microtik, but someone expressed grave concern for their licensing. I personally would do more digging on that before I ever bought one of their products Just my 2p, -Tony Joshua Rowe wrote: This should maybe be a new thread, and I'm not sure Tom is making this point or not,, but I agree, would you trust your CORE to anything but Cisco? I'm not sure I would. Josh -- NexGenAccess Inc. http://www.nexgenaccess.com -- Original Message --- From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 20:45:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS What does MT do that Star doesn't do in the routing arena? I'll add that both platforms have the same flaw. They use OpenSource, but then close the system. Seems kind of opposite the purpose. On a possitive note, I have to say, Mikrotik has really innovated their platform, with a lot of their own code and solutions, to solve problems that couldn't be solved using the previous alternative popular open source apps usually used for those purposes. My hats goes off to them. But the risk that keeps popping up is... They aren't Cisco, in the terms of 1000's of top tier people to research and support development of their platform. Can we trust MT's or any small player's proprietary code, for the long haul? In the Open Source world, there is a clear answer to that, make it open source, and if the developer stops maintaining it, there is a way to get someone to take over maintaining it, without loosing the investment into the platform. I'm not saying companies like MT and STAROS should make their proprietary code into open source. But what I like is the ability to ADD packages to an existing platform. I can give an example, of a monthy ago, when I installed a MT router because , I thought the pretty GUI would make a good impression, but then 24hours later I had to pull it because there was no way for me to test the performance of the link remotely, easilly for my specific situation. I needed Iperf on the router. It was a better choice to use a standard Linux system, basic native routing, because it also enabled Iperf. MT and STAROS are two nice products, but this discussion doesn't stop there. For example ImageStream, even though a bit more expensive, they provide an Open system. Their OS is maintained and preloaded with a few bells and whistles. But you CAN LOAD your own code ALSO. Then there is Voyeta. Its based on 2.6 Kernal of Linux, and its 100% open source, and give the security of using a maintained OS (for example BGP and QUAGGA fixes). But you can pay extra for maintenance and quicker updates. MT and STARTOS, will stay winners for high end WIFI Radio CPE and APs. But when it comes to Core Routers, to stay competitive, they really need to open the platform, and allow third party modules to be loaded by owners or developers. Sure, there is the arguement that CISCO DOESNT DO THAT, but they aren't Cisco. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- End of Original Message --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Anthony R. Mattke Senior Network Engineer CyberLink International 888.293.3693 x4353 [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
MTs BGP is completely their own code in v3... *Dennis Burgess Mikrotik Certified Consultant Link Technologies, Inc WISP/Network Support Solutions +01 314-686-1302* Anthony R. Mattke wrote: Honestly, My core is 100% ImageStream Routers. I have no problem trusting them to run, day in, day out, 100% As far as Microtik goes, I'm curious about the question that got pushed aside, what do they use for Dynamic routing? Quagga? Zebra? I ask because from what I've heard they're violating open source licensing with their MPLS implementation. I can't remember from who or where, and honestly I've never touched a Microtik, but someone expressed grave concern for their licensing. I personally would do more digging on that before I ever bought one of their products Just my 2p, -Tony Joshua Rowe wrote: This should maybe be a new thread, and I'm not sure Tom is making this point or not,, but I agree, would you trust your CORE to anything but Cisco? I'm not sure I would. Josh -- NexGenAccess Inc. http://www.nexgenaccess.com -- Original Message --- From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 20:45:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS What does MT do that Star doesn't do in the routing arena? I'll add that both platforms have the same flaw. They use OpenSource, but then close the system. Seems kind of opposite the purpose. On a possitive note, I have to say, Mikrotik has really innovated their platform, with a lot of their own code and solutions, to solve problems that couldn't be solved using the previous alternative popular open source apps usually used for those purposes. My hats goes off to them. But the risk that keeps popping up is... They aren't Cisco, in the terms of 1000's of top tier people to research and support development of their platform. Can we trust MT's or any small player's proprietary code, for the long haul? In the Open Source world, there is a clear answer to that, make it open source, and if the developer stops maintaining it, there is a way to get someone to take over maintaining it, without loosing the investment into the platform. I'm not saying companies like MT and STAROS should make their proprietary code into open source. But what I like is the ability to ADD packages to an existing platform. I can give an example, of a monthy ago, when I installed a MT router because , I thought the pretty GUI would make a good impression, but then 24hours later I had to pull it because there was no way for me to test the performance of the link remotely, easilly for my specific situation. I needed Iperf on the router. It was a better choice to use a standard Linux system, basic native routing, because it also enabled Iperf. MT and STAROS are two nice products, but this discussion doesn't stop there. For example ImageStream, even though a bit more expensive, they provide an Open system. Their OS is maintained and preloaded with a few bells and whistles. But you CAN LOAD your own code ALSO. Then there is Voyeta. Its based on 2.6 Kernal of Linux, and its 100% open source, and give the security of using a maintained OS (for example BGP and QUAGGA fixes). But you can pay extra for maintenance and quicker updates. MT and STARTOS, will stay winners for high end WIFI Radio CPE and APs. But when it comes to Core Routers, to stay competitive, they really need to open the platform, and allow third party modules to be loaded by owners or developers. Sure, there is the arguement that CISCO DOESNT DO THAT, but they aren't Cisco. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- End of Original Message --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
This should maybe be a new thread, and I'm not sure Tom is making this point or not,, but I agree, would you trust your CORE to anything but Cisco? I'm not sure I would. Josh -- NexGenAccess Inc. http://www.nexgenaccess.com -- Original Message --- From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 20:45:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS What does MT do that Star doesn't do in the routing arena? I'll add that both platforms have the same flaw. They use OpenSource, but then close the system. Seems kind of opposite the purpose. On a possitive note, I have to say, Mikrotik has really innovated their platform, with a lot of their own code and solutions, to solve problems that couldn't be solved using the previous alternative popular open source apps usually used for those purposes. My hats goes off to them. But the risk that keeps popping up is... They aren't Cisco, in the terms of 1000's of top tier people to research and support development of their platform. Can we trust MT's or any small player's proprietary code, for the long haul? In the Open Source world, there is a clear answer to that, make it open source, and if the developer stops maintaining it, there is a way to get someone to take over maintaining it, without loosing the investment into the platform. I'm not saying companies like MT and STAROS should make their proprietary code into open source. But what I like is the ability to ADD packages to an existing platform. I can give an example, of a monthy ago, when I installed a MT router because , I thought the pretty GUI would make a good impression, but then 24hours later I had to pull it because there was no way for me to test the performance of the link remotely, easilly for my specific situation. I needed Iperf on the router. It was a better choice to use a standard Linux system, basic native routing, because it also enabled Iperf. MT and STAROS are two nice products, but this discussion doesn't stop there. For example ImageStream, even though a bit more expensive, they provide an Open system. Their OS is maintained and preloaded with a few bells and whistles. But you CAN LOAD your own code ALSO. Then there is Voyeta. Its based on 2.6 Kernal of Linux, and its 100% open source, and give the security of using a maintained OS (for example BGP and QUAGGA fixes). But you can pay extra for maintenance and quicker updates. MT and STARTOS, will stay winners for high end WIFI Radio CPE and APs. But when it comes to Core Routers, to stay competitive, they really need to open the platform, and allow third party modules to be loaded by owners or developers. Sure, there is the arguement that CISCO DOESNT DO THAT, but they aren't Cisco. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- End of Original Message --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
I would trust MT all the way! MT all the way! I know MANY MANY MANY WISPs, with thousands and thousands of clients running on Mikrotik! Joshua Rowe wrote: This should maybe be a new thread, and I'm not sure Tom is making this point or not,, but I agree, would you trust your CORE to anything but Cisco? I'm not sure I would. Josh -- NexGenAccess Inc. http://www.nexgenaccess.com -- Original Message --- From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 20:45:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS What does MT do that Star doesn't do in the routing arena? I'll add that both platforms have the same flaw. They use OpenSource, but then close the system. Seems kind of opposite the purpose. On a possitive note, I have to say, Mikrotik has really innovated their platform, with a lot of their own code and solutions, to solve problems that couldn't be solved using the previous alternative popular open source apps usually used for those purposes. My hats goes off to them. But the risk that keeps popping up is... They aren't Cisco, in the terms of 1000's of top tier people to research and support development of their platform. Can we trust MT's or any small player's proprietary code, for the long haul? In the Open Source world, there is a clear answer to that, make it open source, and if the developer stops maintaining it, there is a way to get someone to take over maintaining it, without loosing the investment into the platform. I'm not saying companies like MT and STAROS should make their proprietary code into open source. But what I like is the ability to ADD packages to an existing platform. I can give an example, of a monthy ago, when I installed a MT router because , I thought the pretty GUI would make a good impression, but then 24hours later I had to pull it because there was no way for me to test the performance of the link remotely, easilly for my specific situation. I needed Iperf on the router. It was a better choice to use a standard Linux system, basic native routing, because it also enabled Iperf. MT and STAROS are two nice products, but this discussion doesn't stop there. For example ImageStream, even though a bit more expensive, they provide an Open system. Their OS is maintained and preloaded with a few bells and whistles. But you CAN LOAD your own code ALSO. Then there is Voyeta. Its based on 2.6 Kernal of Linux, and its 100% open source, and give the security of using a maintained OS (for example BGP and QUAGGA fixes). But you can pay extra for maintenance and quicker updates. MT and STARTOS, will stay winners for high end WIFI Radio CPE and APs. But when it comes to Core Routers, to stay competitive, they really need to open the platform, and allow third party modules to be loaded by owners or developers. Sure, there is the arguement that CISCO DOESNT DO THAT, but they aren't Cisco. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- End of Original Message --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- *Dennis Burgess Mikrotik Certified Consultant Link Technologies, Inc WISP/Network Support Solutions +01 314-686-1302* WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
On Mar 18, 2008, at 12:21 PM, Joshua Rowe wrote: This should maybe be a new thread, and I'm not sure Tom is making this point or not,, but I agree, would you trust your CORE to anything but Cisco? I'm not sure I would. So what do you run at your core? -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
Yes, I would. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: Joshua Rowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS This should maybe be a new thread, and I'm not sure Tom is making this point or not,, but I agree, would you trust your CORE to anything but Cisco? I'm not sure I would. Josh -- NexGenAccess Inc. http://www.nexgenaccess.com -- Original Message --- From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 20:45:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS What does MT do that Star doesn't do in the routing arena? I'll add that both platforms have the same flaw. They use OpenSource, but then close the system. Seems kind of opposite the purpose. On a possitive note, I have to say, Mikrotik has really innovated their platform, with a lot of their own code and solutions, to solve problems that couldn't be solved using the previous alternative popular open source apps usually used for those purposes. My hats goes off to them. But the risk that keeps popping up is... They aren't Cisco, in the terms of 1000's of top tier people to research and support development of their platform. Can we trust MT's or any small player's proprietary code, for the long haul? In the Open Source world, there is a clear answer to that, make it open source, and if the developer stops maintaining it, there is a way to get someone to take over maintaining it, without loosing the investment into the platform. I'm not saying companies like MT and STAROS should make their proprietary code into open source. But what I like is the ability to ADD packages to an existing platform. I can give an example, of a monthy ago, when I installed a MT router because , I thought the pretty GUI would make a good impression, but then 24hours later I had to pull it because there was no way for me to test the performance of the link remotely, easilly for my specific situation. I needed Iperf on the router. It was a better choice to use a standard Linux system, basic native routing, because it also enabled Iperf. MT and STAROS are two nice products, but this discussion doesn't stop there. For example ImageStream, even though a bit more expensive, they provide an Open system. Their OS is maintained and preloaded with a few bells and whistles. But you CAN LOAD your own code ALSO. Then there is Voyeta. Its based on 2.6 Kernal of Linux, and its 100% open source, and give the security of using a maintained OS (for example BGP and QUAGGA fixes). But you can pay extra for maintenance and quicker updates. MT and STARTOS, will stay winners for high end WIFI Radio CPE and APs. But when it comes to Core Routers, to stay competitive, they really need to open the platform, and allow third party modules to be loaded by owners or developers. Sure, there is the arguement that CISCO DOESNT DO THAT, but they aren't Cisco. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- - - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- - - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- End of Original Message --- -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
We already do. Imagestream and Mikrotik for over 2 years. 0 downtime and hot spares in the rack. :) Travis Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2008, at 11:56 AM, Mark Nash [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I would. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: Joshua Rowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS This should maybe be a new thread, and I'm not sure Tom is making this point or not,, but I agree, would you trust your CORE to anything but Cisco? I'm not sure I would. Josh -- NexGenAccess Inc. http://www.nexgenaccess.com -- Original Message --- From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 20:45:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS What does MT do that Star doesn't do in the routing arena? I'll add that both platforms have the same flaw. They use OpenSource, but then close the system. Seems kind of opposite the purpose. On a possitive note, I have to say, Mikrotik has really innovated their platform, with a lot of their own code and solutions, to solve problems that couldn't be solved using the previous alternative popular open source apps usually used for those purposes. My hats goes off to them. But the risk that keeps popping up is... They aren't Cisco, in the terms of 1000's of top tier people to research and support development of their platform. Can we trust MT's or any small player's proprietary code, for the long haul? In the Open Source world, there is a clear answer to that, make it open source, and if the developer stops maintaining it, there is a way to get someone to take over maintaining it, without loosing the investment into the platform. I'm not saying companies like MT and STAROS should make their proprietary code into open source. But what I like is the ability to ADD packages to an existing platform. I can give an example, of a monthy ago, when I installed a MT router because , I thought the pretty GUI would make a good impression, but then 24hours later I had to pull it because there was no way for me to test the performance of the link remotely, easilly for my specific situation. I needed Iperf on the router. It was a better choice to use a standard Linux system, basic native routing, because it also enabled Iperf. MT and STAROS are two nice products, but this discussion doesn't stop there. For example ImageStream, even though a bit more expensive, they provide an Open system. Their OS is maintained and preloaded with a few bells and whistles. But you CAN LOAD your own code ALSO. Then there is Voyeta. Its based on 2.6 Kernal of Linux, and its 100% open source, and give the security of using a maintained OS (for example BGP and QUAGGA fixes). But you can pay extra for maintenance and quicker updates. MT and STARTOS, will stay winners for high end WIFI Radio CPE and APs. But when it comes to Core Routers, to stay competitive, they really need to open the platform, and allow third party modules to be loaded by owners or developers. Sure, there is the arguement that CISCO DOESNT DO THAT, but they aren't Cisco. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband --- --- - - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- - - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- End of Original Message --- --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
I think it also depends on your application. The people asking and answering these questions may be apples and oranges. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 12:02 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS We already do. Imagestream and Mikrotik for over 2 years. 0 downtime and hot spares in the rack. :) Travis Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2008, at 11:56 AM, Mark Nash [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I would. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: Joshua Rowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS This should maybe be a new thread, and I'm not sure Tom is making this point or not,, but I agree, would you trust your CORE to anything but Cisco? I'm not sure I would. Josh -- NexGenAccess Inc. http://www.nexgenaccess.com -- Original Message --- From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 20:45:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS What does MT do that Star doesn't do in the routing arena? I'll add that both platforms have the same flaw. They use OpenSource, but then close the system. Seems kind of opposite the purpose. On a possitive note, I have to say, Mikrotik has really innovated their platform, with a lot of their own code and solutions, to solve problems that couldn't be solved using the previous alternative popular open source apps usually used for those purposes. My hats goes off to them. But the risk that keeps popping up is... They aren't Cisco, in the terms of 1000's of top tier people to research and support development of their platform. Can we trust MT's or any small player's proprietary code, for the long haul? In the Open Source world, there is a clear answer to that, make it open source, and if the developer stops maintaining it, there is a way to get someone to take over maintaining it, without loosing the investment into the platform. I'm not saying companies like MT and STAROS should make their proprietary code into open source. But what I like is the ability to ADD packages to an existing platform. I can give an example, of a monthy ago, when I installed a MT router because , I thought the pretty GUI would make a good impression, but then 24hours later I had to pull it because there was no way for me to test the performance of the link remotely, easilly for my specific situation. I needed Iperf on the router. It was a better choice to use a standard Linux system, basic native routing, because it also enabled Iperf. MT and STAROS are two nice products, but this discussion doesn't stop there. For example ImageStream, even though a bit more expensive, they provide an Open system. Their OS is maintained and preloaded with a few bells and whistles. But you CAN LOAD your own code ALSO. Then there is Voyeta. Its based on 2.6 Kernal of Linux, and its 100% open source, and give the security of using a maintained OS (for example BGP and QUAGGA fixes). But you can pay extra for maintenance and quicker updates. MT and STARTOS, will stay winners for high end WIFI Radio CPE and APs. But when it comes to Core Routers, to stay competitive, they really need to open the platform, and allow third party modules to be loaded by owners or developers. Sure, there is the arguement that CISCO DOESNT DO THAT, but they aren't Cisco. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband --- --- - - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- - - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- End of Original Message --- --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
I think it also depends on your application. The people asking and answering these questions may be apples and oranges. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 12:02 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS We already do. Imagestream and Mikrotik for over 2 years. 0 downtime and hot spares in the rack. :) Travis Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2008, at 11:56 AM, Mark Nash [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I would. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: Joshua Rowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS This should maybe be a new thread, and I'm not sure Tom is making this point or not,, but I agree, would you trust your CORE to anything but Cisco? I'm not sure I would. Josh -- NexGenAccess Inc. http://www.nexgenaccess.com -- Original Message --- From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 20:45:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS What does MT do that Star doesn't do in the routing arena? I'll add that both platforms have the same flaw. They use OpenSource, but then close the system. Seems kind of opposite the purpose. On a possitive note, I have to say, Mikrotik has really innovated their platform, with a lot of their own code and solutions, to solve problems that couldn't be solved using the previous alternative popular open source apps usually used for those purposes. My hats goes off to them. But the risk that keeps popping up is... They aren't Cisco, in the terms of 1000's of top tier people to research and support development of their platform. Can we trust MT's or any small player's proprietary code, for the long haul? In the Open Source world, there is a clear answer to that, make it open source, and if the developer stops maintaining it, there is a way to get someone to take over maintaining it, without loosing the investment into the platform. I'm not saying companies like MT and STAROS should make their proprietary code into open source. But what I like is the ability to ADD packages to an existing platform. I can give an example, of a monthy ago, when I installed a MT router because , I thought the pretty GUI would make a good impression, but then 24hours later I had to pull it because there was no way for me to test the performance of the link remotely, easilly for my specific situation. I needed Iperf on the router. It was a better choice to use a standard Linux system, basic native routing, because it also enabled Iperf. MT and STAROS are two nice products, but this discussion doesn't stop there. For example ImageStream, even though a bit more expensive, they provide an Open system. Their OS is maintained and preloaded with a few bells and whistles. But you CAN LOAD your own code ALSO. Then there is Voyeta. Its based on 2.6 Kernal of Linux, and its 100% open source, and give the security of using a maintained OS (for example BGP and QUAGGA fixes). But you can pay extra for maintenance and quicker updates. MT and STARTOS, will stay winners for high end WIFI Radio CPE and APs. But when it comes to Core Routers, to stay competitive, they really need to open the platform, and allow third party modules to be loaded by owners or developers. Sure, there is the arguement that CISCO DOESNT DO THAT, but they aren't Cisco. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband --- --- - - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- - - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- End of Original Message --- --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
Disclaimer... I currently do not use Cisco. I use Linux routers and SMC switches. Its been working out well for me. But I understand the Cisco value. It has NOTHING to do with hardware or performance. It has to do with predictabilty and documentation. It has to do with name recognition and availability. It has to do with accountability. Its nice to go into the local book store, and be guaranteed you can find a page telling you line for line exactly what to type to solve a problem. Its nice to put out an add, and know that 50% of the candidates have the Cisco background behind them, to start out with a common understanding. There is something to be said for making a sale, placing an order, and not having to look back. There becomes a point in every ISP's growth, that they start to realize that they need these things to get to the next level. Its something Cisco has promised, and something Cisco has delivered consistently for decades. Its the reason we recently have been looking towards Cisco, even if used. To get that peice of mind. However, there is a reason we are still using Linux. And the reason is... The grass always appears greener on the other side, but is it really? Can Cisco really deliver all this better than Linux? And is it worth the price they ask? Its not all good, Cisco has their challenges to. Cost justification is a big concern. But more so the Linux boxes hands down, outperform the Cisco, for anything under GB ports. If its working, its hard to walk away from that. I can put in 10 brand new self made routers, capable of supporting GigE backbones, for less than a single new Cisco MPLS switch. Can I afford to pass up that competitive advantage? Wouldn't I rather put the $10K into a new Licensed Radio? Those are the questions I ask myself. But it always comes back full circle, can I trust non-Cisco, if I want to represent myself as an equivellent provider with the LECs? But more importantly its the question that your upstream and your clients asks you. Can they trust you, with Non-Cisco. Thats the question the ISP has to be able to answer. What I like seeing, is this starting to change. I like seeing companies like Novell and IBM buying into Linux platforms, like they are doing. I like seeing companies like the ones we have talked about here, (Imagestream, MT, Voyetra) Raising the bar, trying to get closer to what Cisco is. I don't have the answers. But the question is asked, everytime I spend a dollar. And most importantly, its the question that Non-Cisco router makers have to have the answer for, in practice. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mark Nash [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS Yes, I would. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: Joshua Rowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS This should maybe be a new thread, and I'm not sure Tom is making this point or not,, but I agree, would you trust your CORE to anything but Cisco? I'm not sure I would. Josh -- NexGenAccess Inc. http://www.nexgenaccess.com -- Original Message --- From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 20:45:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS What does MT do that Star doesn't do in the routing arena? I'll add that both platforms have the same flaw. They use OpenSource, but then close the system. Seems kind of opposite the purpose. On a possitive note, I have to say, Mikrotik has really innovated their platform, with a lot of their own code and solutions, to solve problems that couldn't be solved using the previous alternative popular open source apps usually used for those purposes. My hats goes off to them. But the risk that keeps popping up is... They aren't Cisco, in the terms of 1000's of top tier people to research and support development of their platform. Can we trust MT's or any small player's proprietary code, for the long haul? In the Open Source world, there is a clear answer to that, make it open source, and if the developer stops maintaining it, there is a way to get someone to take over maintaining it, without loosing the investment into the platform. I'm not saying companies like MT and STAROS should make their proprietary code into open source. But what I like is the ability to ADD packages to an existing platform. I can give an example, of a monthy ago, when I installed a MT router because , I thought
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
Ok What about Butch? Butch can maybe better define the difference between MT and Star as a router considering Star V3 which has been out for a while now. I see Butch on the Star forums, so I'm assuming he knows both quite well. Star does BGP and bandwidth shaping, it's done bandwidth shaping for as long as I can remember, and I started using it before it was known as star-os. It also does duplex, not sure if it's true duplex, but stars duplex uses two radios, one to send and one to receive. Not sure how much of a difference it is between n stream. David E. Smith wrote: Not to be antagonistic, but rather to be better educated, let me ask you this. What does MT do that Star doesn't do in the routing arena? In terms of just routing and basic firewalling, the two are fairly comparable. I'm putting more and more Mikrotik RouterOS in my network because of all the nifty extra stuff it does better than StarOS (or that StarOS doesn't do, period). Keep in mind my shopping list is based mainly upon StarOS 2.x. * Nstreme Dual, a proprietary extension that would be great for busy backhauls (you put in two radio cards and have a full-duplex link, one dedicated to transmit and one to receive at each side of the link) I've never actually used this but it sure sounds nifty... * the ability to act as both a client and a server for pretty much every type of VPN out there (StarOS can do some of this, but it's limited by comparison) * BGP (this existed in StarOS 2.x, but was taken out of early 3.x releases, I heard StarOS might be getting it back someday) and MPLS * ridiculously extensive traffic shaping/queuing capability * pretty GUI (this could be a plus or a minus, actually, as the SSH interface to RouterOS is pretty blah while StarOS' console is quite nice) Ultimately, though, I'd say this sort of thing is about 95% personal preference. For many basic jobs, both of 'em will work just fine; might as well get the one with which you're more familiar. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
MT does BGP and Bandwitdh shaping. Much simpler to use compaired to star, at least you get a graphic interface.N-Stream does the same thing. Dennis Burgess Mikrotik Certified Consultant www.linktechs.net George Rogato wrote: Ok What about Butch? Butch can maybe better define the difference between MT and Star as a router considering Star V3 which has been out for a while now. I see Butch on the Star forums, so I'm assuming he knows both quite well. Star does BGP and bandwidth shaping, it's done bandwidth shaping for as long as I can remember, and I started using it before it was known as star-os. It also does duplex, not sure if it's true duplex, but stars duplex uses two radios, one to send and one to receive. Not sure how much of a difference it is between n stream. David E. Smith wrote: Not to be antagonistic, but rather to be better educated, let me ask you this. What does MT do that Star doesn't do in the routing arena? In terms of just routing and basic firewalling, the two are fairly comparable. I'm putting more and more Mikrotik RouterOS in my network because of all the nifty extra stuff it does better than StarOS (or that StarOS doesn't do, period). Keep in mind my shopping list is based mainly upon StarOS 2.x. * Nstreme Dual, a proprietary extension that would be great for busy backhauls (you put in two radio cards and have a full-duplex link, one dedicated to transmit and one to receive at each side of the link) I've never actually used this but it sure sounds nifty... * the ability to act as both a client and a server for pretty much every type of VPN out there (StarOS can do some of this, but it's limited by comparison) * BGP (this existed in StarOS 2.x, but was taken out of early 3.x releases, I heard StarOS might be getting it back someday) and MPLS * ridiculously extensive traffic shaping/queuing capability * pretty GUI (this could be a plus or a minus, actually, as the SSH interface to RouterOS is pretty blah while StarOS' console is quite nice) Ultimately, though, I'd say this sort of thing is about 95% personal preference. For many basic jobs, both of 'em will work just fine; might as well get the one with which you're more familiar. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
I can't tell you how much I prefer the graphical UI to what StarOS offers. MT does have a limited Web UI, but the Winbox app is very nice. Viewing queues traffic, DHCP leases, ARP entries, etc. Leaps an bounds over StarOS. But I will deal with not having these tools in the name of standardization on StarOS. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 8:01 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS MT does BGP and Bandwitdh shaping. Much simpler to use compaired to star, at least you get a graphic interface.N-Stream does the same thing. Dennis Burgess Mikrotik Certified Consultant www.linktechs.net George Rogato wrote: Ok What about Butch? Butch can maybe better define the difference between MT and Star as a router considering Star V3 which has been out for a while now. I see Butch on the Star forums, so I'm assuming he knows both quite well. Star does BGP and bandwidth shaping, it's done bandwidth shaping for as long as I can remember, and I started using it before it was known as star-os. It also does duplex, not sure if it's true duplex, but stars duplex uses two radios, one to send and one to receive. Not sure how much of a difference it is between n stream. David E. Smith wrote: Not to be antagonistic, but rather to be better educated, let me ask you this. What does MT do that Star doesn't do in the routing arena? In terms of just routing and basic firewalling, the two are fairly comparable. I'm putting more and more Mikrotik RouterOS in my network because of all the nifty extra stuff it does better than StarOS (or that StarOS doesn't do, period). Keep in mind my shopping list is based mainly upon StarOS 2.x. * Nstreme Dual, a proprietary extension that would be great for busy backhauls (you put in two radio cards and have a full-duplex link, one dedicated to transmit and one to receive at each side of the link) I've never actually used this but it sure sounds nifty... * the ability to act as both a client and a server for pretty much every type of VPN out there (StarOS can do some of this, but it's limited by comparison) * BGP (this existed in StarOS 2.x, but was taken out of early 3.x releases, I heard StarOS might be getting it back someday) and MPLS * ridiculously extensive traffic shaping/queuing capability * pretty GUI (this could be a plus or a minus, actually, as the SSH interface to RouterOS is pretty blah while StarOS' console is quite nice) Ultimately, though, I'd say this sort of thing is about 95% personal preference. For many basic jobs, both of 'em will work just fine; might as well get the one with which you're more familiar. David Smith MVN.net - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
Butch, I agree the MT graphical interface for configuring BGP, OSPF, and stuff, is pretty nice. Can you tell us more about MT's BGP. Is it Quagga, GateD, or their Own? There had been reports that in the past, BGP was buggy on MT, but NOT buggy anymore with more recent V3 code. I was just wondering because I was wondering about compatibilty with other third party BGP implementations used by upstreams using different platforms. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS MT does BGP and Bandwitdh shaping. Much simpler to use compaired to star, at least you get a graphic interface.N-Stream does the same thing. Dennis Burgess Mikrotik Certified Consultant www.linktechs.net George Rogato wrote: Ok What about Butch? Butch can maybe better define the difference between MT and Star as a router considering Star V3 which has been out for a while now. I see Butch on the Star forums, so I'm assuming he knows both quite well. Star does BGP and bandwidth shaping, it's done bandwidth shaping for as long as I can remember, and I started using it before it was known as star-os. It also does duplex, not sure if it's true duplex, but stars duplex uses two radios, one to send and one to receive. Not sure how much of a difference it is between n stream. David E. Smith wrote: Not to be antagonistic, but rather to be better educated, let me ask you this. What does MT do that Star doesn't do in the routing arena? In terms of just routing and basic firewalling, the two are fairly comparable. I'm putting more and more Mikrotik RouterOS in my network because of all the nifty extra stuff it does better than StarOS (or that StarOS doesn't do, period). Keep in mind my shopping list is based mainly upon StarOS 2.x. * Nstreme Dual, a proprietary extension that would be great for busy backhauls (you put in two radio cards and have a full-duplex link, one dedicated to transmit and one to receive at each side of the link) I've never actually used this but it sure sounds nifty... * the ability to act as both a client and a server for pretty much every type of VPN out there (StarOS can do some of this, but it's limited by comparison) * BGP (this existed in StarOS 2.x, but was taken out of early 3.x releases, I heard StarOS might be getting it back someday) and MPLS * ridiculously extensive traffic shaping/queuing capability * pretty GUI (this could be a plus or a minus, actually, as the SSH interface to RouterOS is pretty blah while StarOS' console is quite nice) Ultimately, though, I'd say this sort of thing is about 95% personal preference. For many basic jobs, both of 'em will work just fine; might as well get the one with which you're more familiar. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: 3/17/2008 10:48 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
Well, I am no Butch, but I do have a number of customers using BGP on GigE Connections. I would say that in v2.12 - 2.29 ya, there were some bgp bugs and plus the implementation was not 100% .. Most of v3 has been built from the ground up. WebProxy for instance is awesome in v3. I do not know if it is different. I know it will take to Zebra, Qugga and Cisco. Also IPv6 Support for BGP is in there. Also don't forget about Multicast and MPLS is also Available now. Dennis Burgess Mikrotik Certified Consultant www.linktechs.net Tom DeReggi wrote: Butch, I agree the MT graphical interface for configuring BGP, OSPF, and stuff, is pretty nice. Can you tell us more about MT's BGP. Is it Quagga, GateD, or their Own? There had been reports that in the past, BGP was buggy on MT, but NOT buggy anymore with more recent V3 code. I was just wondering because I was wondering about compatibilty with other third party BGP implementations used by upstreams using different platforms. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS MT does BGP and Bandwitdh shaping. Much simpler to use compaired to star, at least you get a graphic interface.N-Stream does the same thing. Dennis Burgess Mikrotik Certified Consultant www.linktechs.net George Rogato wrote: Ok What about Butch? Butch can maybe better define the difference between MT and Star as a router considering Star V3 which has been out for a while now. I see Butch on the Star forums, so I'm assuming he knows both quite well. Star does BGP and bandwidth shaping, it's done bandwidth shaping for as long as I can remember, and I started using it before it was known as star-os. It also does duplex, not sure if it's true duplex, but stars duplex uses two radios, one to send and one to receive. Not sure how much of a difference it is between n stream. David E. Smith wrote: Not to be antagonistic, but rather to be better educated, let me ask you this. What does MT do that Star doesn't do in the routing arena? In terms of just routing and basic firewalling, the two are fairly comparable. I'm putting more and more Mikrotik RouterOS in my network because of all the nifty extra stuff it does better than StarOS (or that StarOS doesn't do, period). Keep in mind my shopping list is based mainly upon StarOS 2.x. * Nstreme Dual, a proprietary extension that would be great for busy backhauls (you put in two radio cards and have a full-duplex link, one dedicated to transmit and one to receive at each side of the link) I've never actually used this but it sure sounds nifty... * the ability to act as both a client and a server for pretty much every type of VPN out there (StarOS can do some of this, but it's limited by comparison) * BGP (this existed in StarOS 2.x, but was taken out of early 3.x releases, I heard StarOS might be getting it back someday) and MPLS * ridiculously extensive traffic shaping/queuing capability * pretty GUI (this could be a plus or a minus, actually, as the SSH interface to RouterOS is pretty blah while StarOS' console is quite nice) Ultimately, though, I'd say this sort of thing is about 95% personal preference. For many basic jobs, both of 'em will work just fine; might as well get the one with which you're more familiar. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: 3/17/2008 10:48 AM
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
N-Streme2 you mean. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS MT does BGP and Bandwitdh shaping. Much simpler to use compaired to star, at least you get a graphic interface.N-Stream does the same thing. Dennis Burgess Mikrotik Certified Consultant www.linktechs.net George Rogato wrote: Ok What about Butch? Butch can maybe better define the difference between MT and Star as a router considering Star V3 which has been out for a while now. I see Butch on the Star forums, so I'm assuming he knows both quite well. Star does BGP and bandwidth shaping, it's done bandwidth shaping for as long as I can remember, and I started using it before it was known as star-os. It also does duplex, not sure if it's true duplex, but stars duplex uses two radios, one to send and one to receive. Not sure how much of a difference it is between n stream. David E. Smith wrote: Not to be antagonistic, but rather to be better educated, let me ask you this. What does MT do that Star doesn't do in the routing arena? In terms of just routing and basic firewalling, the two are fairly comparable. I'm putting more and more Mikrotik RouterOS in my network because of all the nifty extra stuff it does better than StarOS (or that StarOS doesn't do, period). Keep in mind my shopping list is based mainly upon StarOS 2.x. * Nstreme Dual, a proprietary extension that would be great for busy backhauls (you put in two radio cards and have a full-duplex link, one dedicated to transmit and one to receive at each side of the link) I've never actually used this but it sure sounds nifty... * the ability to act as both a client and a server for pretty much every type of VPN out there (StarOS can do some of this, but it's limited by comparison) * BGP (this existed in StarOS 2.x, but was taken out of early 3.x releases, I heard StarOS might be getting it back someday) and MPLS * ridiculously extensive traffic shaping/queuing capability * pretty GUI (this could be a plus or a minus, actually, as the SSH interface to RouterOS is pretty blah while StarOS' console is quite nice) Ultimately, though, I'd say this sort of thing is about 95% personal preference. For many basic jobs, both of 'em will work just fine; might as well get the one with which you're more familiar. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
We used to stay away from the Intels because of Cost. However, they have come down a bit now. The 100/1000 PCIe version are now under $450. We use them, and a clear winner. Whether it works under STAROS, I do not know. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mark Nash [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 6:43 PM Subject: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS Any opinions on 4-port Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet interface cards? I'm putting together an 8-port PC-base router loaded with StarOS. Thanks... Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1328 - Release Date: 3/13/2008 11:31 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
What does MT do that Star doesn't do in the routing arena? I'll add that both platforms have the same flaw. They use OpenSource, but then close the system. Seems kind of opposite the purpose. On a possitive note, I have to say, Mikrotik has really innovated their platform, with a lot of their own code and solutions, to solve problems that couldn't be solved using the previous alternative popular open source apps usually used for those purposes. My hats goes off to them. But the risk that keeps popping up is... They aren't Cisco, in the terms of 1000's of top tier people to research and support development of their platform. Can we trust MT's or any small player's proprietary code, for the long haul? In the Open Source world, there is a clear answer to that, make it open source, and if the developer stops maintaining it, there is a way to get someone to take over maintaining it, without loosing the investment into the platform. I'm not saying companies like MT and STAROS should make their proprietary code into open source. But what I like is the ability to ADD packages to an existing platform. I can give an example, of a monthy ago, when I installed a MT router because , I thought the pretty GUI would make a good impression, but then 24hours later I had to pull it because there was no way for me to test the performance of the link remotely, easilly for my specific situation. I needed Iperf on the router. It was a better choice to use a standard Linux system, basic native routing, because it also enabled Iperf. MT and STAROS are two nice products, but this discussion doesn't stop there. For example ImageStream, even though a bit more expensive, they provide an Open system. Their OS is maintained and preloaded with a few bells and whistles. But you CAN LOAD your own code ALSO. Then there is Voyeta. Its based on 2.6 Kernal of Linux, and its 100% open source, and give the security of using a maintained OS (for example BGP and QUAGGA fixes). But you can pay extra for maintenance and quicker updates. MT and STARTOS, will stay winners for high end WIFI Radio CPE and APs. But when it comes to Core Routers, to stay competitive, they really need to open the platform, and allow third party modules to be loaded by owners or developers. Sure, there is the arguement that CISCO DOESNT DO THAT, but they aren't Cisco. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
This is most likely due to buss speed... One of the major oversights for builders of systems. -Original Message- From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 11:47 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS I pulled out the one's in my MT boxes. They worked fine till they started to get loaded then they started slowing down. I now run multiple cards. Throughput was MUCH higher for me. 2 to 4 times. marlon - Original Message - From: Mark Nash [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 4:43 PM Subject: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS Any opinions on 4-port Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet interface cards? I'm putting together an 8-port PC-base router loaded with StarOS. Thanks... Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
After swapping DoM, RAM, power supply and even the motherboard it turned out to be a bad MikroTik RB44 NIC. Granted this is the first time I've ever seen a RB44 completely halt a MT router from booting, but it happened. Me too :D Over the last few months, I've had all manner of weird problems with Mikrotik's RB44G NICs. One of them kept locking up a bandwidth shaper - which, unfortunately, was connected at such a point in my network as to kill off a whole bunch of customers until someone drove up to the office and hard-powercycled it. While I replaced RAM, motherboards, and even obscure things like PCI riser cards, I never replaced the NIC, because that's one of those things you just don't expect to go bad. Or at least if it does, it'll just stop working completely and not be weirdly intermittent. A second RB44G had one dud port out of the box. :( I recently replaced that system with one of Dennis Burgess' PowerRouter 1U rackmount devices, which includes seven Intel Pro1000 gigabit network ports. Those ports alone are probably half the price of the unit. It's a bit overkill for my needs, honestly, but it hasn't so much as hiccuped. (In all fairness I've only had it deployed for about a week and a half, but that's already longer than my home-built system with the RB44G NIC was running between total lockups.) David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
I've wondered how those powerouters performed. It would be nice to have a Linux-based 1u 8 or 12 port router that we could run either Mikrotik or StarOS on . My preference would be StarOS. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 11:36 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS After swapping DoM, RAM, power supply and even the motherboard it turned out to be a bad MikroTik RB44 NIC. Granted this is the first time I've ever seen a RB44 completely halt a MT router from booting, but it happened. Me too :D Over the last few months, I've had all manner of weird problems with Mikrotik's RB44G NICs. One of them kept locking up a bandwidth shaper - which, unfortunately, was connected at such a point in my network as to kill off a whole bunch of customers until someone drove up to the office and hard-powercycled it. While I replaced RAM, motherboards, and even obscure things like PCI riser cards, I never replaced the NIC, because that's one of those things you just don't expect to go bad. Or at least if it does, it'll just stop working completely and not be weirdly intermittent. A second RB44G had one dud port out of the box. :( I recently replaced that system with one of Dennis Burgess' PowerRouter 1U rackmount devices, which includes seven Intel Pro1000 gigabit network ports. Those ports alone are probably half the price of the unit. It's a bit overkill for my needs, honestly, but it hasn't so much as hiccuped. (In all fairness I've only had it deployed for about a week and a half, but that's already longer than my home-built system with the RB44G NIC was running between total lockups.) David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
I tested one about two months ago. We were pushing 120Mbps incoming and 50Mbps outgoing traffic with 10 simple queues and some firewall rules and the CPU was running at about 35%. Their claim is something like 5Gbps thru the box (using all ports at the same time). It was a pretty impressive box for the price. Travis Microserv Mark Nash wrote: I've wondered how those powerouters performed. It would be nice to have a Linux-based 1u 8 or 12 port router that we could run either Mikrotik or StarOS on . My preference would be StarOS. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: "David E. Smith" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 11:36 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS After swapping DoM, RAM, power supply and even the motherboard it turned out to be a bad MikroTik RB44 NIC. Granted this is the first time I've ever seen a RB44 completely halt a MT router from booting, but it happened. Me too :D Over the last few months, I've had all manner of weird problems with Mikrotik's RB44G NICs. One of them kept locking up a bandwidth shaper - which, unfortunately, was connected at such a point in my network as to kill off a whole bunch of customers until someone drove up to the office and hard-powercycled it. While I replaced RAM, motherboards, and even obscure things like PCI riser cards, I never replaced the NIC, because that's one of those things you just don't expect to go bad. Or at least if it does, it'll just stop working completely and not be weirdly intermittent. A second RB44G had one dud port out of the box. :( I recently replaced that system with one of Dennis Burgess' PowerRouter 1U rackmount devices, which includes seven Intel Pro1000 gigabit network ports. Those ports alone are probably half the price of the unit. It's a bit overkill for my needs, honestly, but it hasn't so much as hiccuped. (In all fairness I've only had it deployed for about a week and a half, but that's already longer than my home-built system with the RB44G NIC was running between total lockups.) David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
Brad Belton wrote: Why are you going with StarOS over MT for a rackmount router? From everything I've heard (and the little I've seen of StarOS) MT is leaps and bounds ahead of StarOS in the routing arena. Best, Brad Brad, Not to be antagonistic, but rather to be better educated, let me ask you this. What does MT do that Star doesn't do in the routing arena? George WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
Not to be antagonistic, but rather to be better educated, let me ask you this. What does MT do that Star doesn't do in the routing arena? In terms of just routing and basic firewalling, the two are fairly comparable. I'm putting more and more Mikrotik RouterOS in my network because of all the nifty extra stuff it does better than StarOS (or that StarOS doesn't do, period). Keep in mind my shopping list is based mainly upon StarOS 2.x. * Nstreme Dual, a proprietary extension that would be great for busy backhauls (you put in two radio cards and have a full-duplex link, one dedicated to transmit and one to receive at each side of the link) I've never actually used this but it sure sounds nifty... * the ability to act as both a client and a server for pretty much every type of VPN out there (StarOS can do some of this, but it's limited by comparison) * BGP (this existed in StarOS 2.x, but was taken out of early 3.x releases, I heard StarOS might be getting it back someday) and MPLS * ridiculously extensive traffic shaping/queuing capability * pretty GUI (this could be a plus or a minus, actually, as the SSH interface to RouterOS is pretty blah while StarOS' console is quite nice) Ultimately, though, I'd say this sort of thing is about 95% personal preference. For many basic jobs, both of 'em will work just fine; might as well get the one with which you're more familiar. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
Some Other things to think of and comments from below *N-Stream Dual -- Very good at increasing bandwidth and full duplex operations. But also you can use other types of links, such as 150 meg and other solutions, in bridge and allow for failover between those and maybe simple 5gig radios. You can also bond them if you wished. More spectrum use, but more thoughtput too. *On the VPN, yep, and now even OVPN is supported at AES256 if you wish. Works excellent for client to client connections and VPN Servers. Yes, you can integrate the MT as a VPN Server for a business with Active Directory! * Full Transparent Web Proxy - v3 introduced new version, its not squid, built from the ground up. High performance, transparent Proxying can be done without issues. As well as speeding cache hits up accross your network vs the users normal cap. * New Line of Routerboards based on PowerPC as well, giving you up to 8 wPCI interfaces on one system if needed. * SMP Support for your x86 systems like the PoweRouter and other PCs. Works great on larger installations that require lots of power. * Multicast is supported as well now! * Varius AirCards are supported as well Dennis Burgess Link Technologies, Inc Mikrotik Certified Trainer / Engineer David E. Smith wrote: Not to be antagonistic, but rather to be better educated, let me ask you this. What does MT do that Star doesn't do in the routing arena? In terms of just routing and basic firewalling, the two are fairly comparable. I'm putting more and more Mikrotik RouterOS in my network because of all the nifty extra stuff it does better than StarOS (or that StarOS doesn't do, period). Keep in mind my shopping list is based mainly upon StarOS 2.x. * Nstreme Dual, a proprietary extension that would be great for busy backhauls (you put in two radio cards and have a full-duplex link, one dedicated to transmit and one to receive at each side of the link) I've never actually used this but it sure sounds nifty... * the ability to act as both a client and a server for pretty much every type of VPN out there (StarOS can do some of this, but it's limited by comparison) * BGP (this existed in StarOS 2.x, but was taken out of early 3.x releases, I heard StarOS might be getting it back someday) and MPLS * ridiculously extensive traffic shaping/queuing capability * pretty GUI (this could be a plus or a minus, actually, as the SSH interface to RouterOS is pretty blah while StarOS' console is quite nice) Ultimately, though, I'd say this sort of thing is about 95% personal preference. For many basic jobs, both of 'em will work just fine; might as well get the one with which you're more familiar. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
I pulled out the one's in my MT boxes. They worked fine till they started to get loaded then they started slowing down. I now run multiple cards. Throughput was MUCH higher for me. 2 to 4 times. marlon - Original Message - From: Mark Nash [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 4:43 PM Subject: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS Any opinions on 4-port Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet interface cards? I'm putting together an 8-port PC-base router loaded with StarOS. Thanks... Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
I don't think anyone makes a better NIC than Intel. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Mark Nash [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 6:43 PM Subject: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS Any opinions on 4-port Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet interface cards? I'm putting together an 8-port PC-base router loaded with StarOS. Thanks... Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
Agreed. Intel motherboards, CPUs and NICs are the best we've found so far for MikroTik routers. Just a few days ago we had what appeared to be our first Intel based 3GHz router fail due to Intel hardware. After swapping DoM, RAM, power supply and even the motherboard it turned out to be a bad MikroTik RB44 NIC. Granted this is the first time I've ever seen a RB44 completely halt a MT router from booting, but it happened. I lost count how many RB44s and older RB24s we have in the field, so all things considered this first RB44 failure to actually halt the OS is not a major concern. If you do decide to forgo the $100 RB44 we've had great luck with the Intel Quad Port GigE NICs. Don't have as many of those in the field, but they have yet to let us down. Why are you going with StarOS over MT for a rackmount router? From everything I've heard (and the little I've seen of StarOS) MT is leaps and bounds ahead of StarOS in the routing arena. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 6:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS I don't think anyone makes a better NIC than Intel. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Mark Nash [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 6:43 PM Subject: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS Any opinions on 4-port Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet interface cards? I'm putting together an 8-port PC-base router loaded with StarOS. Thanks... Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
Mikrotik is a better router, yes. But we are standardizing on StarOS, even for our infrastructure. Until there's something it can't handle that we feel we need, we'll use StarOS for the benefit of standardization. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: Brad Belton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 6:48 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS Agreed. Intel motherboards, CPUs and NICs are the best we've found so far for MikroTik routers. Just a few days ago we had what appeared to be our first Intel based 3GHz router fail due to Intel hardware. After swapping DoM, RAM, power supply and even the motherboard it turned out to be a bad MikroTik RB44 NIC. Granted this is the first time I've ever seen a RB44 completely halt a MT router from booting, but it happened. I lost count how many RB44s and older RB24s we have in the field, so all things considered this first RB44 failure to actually halt the OS is not a major concern. If you do decide to forgo the $100 RB44 we've had great luck with the Intel Quad Port GigE NICs. Don't have as many of those in the field, but they have yet to let us down. Why are you going with StarOS over MT for a rackmount router? From everything I've heard (and the little I've seen of StarOS) MT is leaps and bounds ahead of StarOS in the routing arena. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 6:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS I don't think anyone makes a better NIC than Intel. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Mark Nash [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 6:43 PM Subject: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS Any opinions on 4-port Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet interface cards? I'm putting together an 8-port PC-base router loaded with StarOS. Thanks... Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
