Re: [WISPA] Is anyone thinking about 17 and 60 ghz?
If you define an LSP that matches your SLA then MPLS instead using SLA driven metrics like latency, jitter, and packet loss. Good idea. Also learned today that Bridgewave can sent out Traps with reporting 3 different link states, each indicating how close to the minimum DB level, to help indicate when to switch to a backup link path.. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Is anyone thinking about 17 and 60 ghz? Tom DeReggi wrote: Anyone that can afford name brand high capacity unlicensed PTPs can afford 60Ghz. You can go 1/2 mile for under $10,000 with Proxim. Financed over 3 years will allow it to be paid for with the first T1 customer. The problem is back hauling it :-) Not all WISPs will be in the position to do that. Also take note that the metrix on shortest hop routing may no longer be applicable. A 5 hop GB network at 2miles each may be faster path than the 10 miles 10mbps backhaul. But what happens the .5% of the time when the GB gets marginal? and the backup slower 10 mile links perform better? And what happens when the link is only as fast as the weakest link in a 5 hop path? It very well may take smarter routing to handle the job than just OSPF, depending on the SLA one needs to deliver. Because capacity and packet loss are the metrix that need to be considered most. If you define an LSP that matches your SLA then MPLS will select any combination of layer 3 routes to encapsulate your customer's traffic. This has the advantage of routing not based on distance metrics, but instead using SLA driven metrics like latency, jitter, and packet loss. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Is anyone thinking about 17 and 60 ghz?
My understanding about 60ghz (what I remember reading anyway) is that its good for 1000mbps data links, but MAX distance of 1Mile, since O2 (Oxygen) resonates at 60ghz. It was originally used for spy satellite to spy satellite links (in space), since it couldn't conceivably be picked up by any antenna on the ground, friend or foe. pd Mario Pommier wrote: Bridgewave 60Ghz works excellently! Very nice stuff. Full Gbps full duplex speeds. Few computers or laptops, if any at all, can reach those speeds. Our sysadmin figured a way to test capacity with Cisco switches on both ends by flooding the link. Expensive. Yes. I only see it possible to be deployed in 100%-paid-for PtP projects: medical, government, industrial -- anyway it won't go more than ~700meters, the drier the area the better. If I understood correctly, the US Gov bans US 60Ghz manufacturers from exporting their gear outside the US because when the US military goes somewhere they can't find 60Ghz links -- that's how secure it is: very narrow beamwidths (~1*) and complete signal fade after about 1mile. If you don't know the link is there (or you can't see the antennas) it's practically impossible to find the stuff. Whereas for licensed 70 and 80Ghz all you need to do is look in the FCC website to know who deployed what-where-when and how. Regarding deployment: you need TOTAL LOS. Even branches blowing in and out of the path will drop the link. Mario Dawn DiPietro wrote: Mark, I think 60 Ghz is a good solution if you can afford it. At this point it is still not in the price range of the average WISP but it is great stuff. I think Matt Liotta had a link or 2 with some 60 Ghz gear. Regards, Dawn DiPietro wispa wrote: In the search for the bigger last mile pipe, there's unlicensed at both 17 and 60 ghz. I'm not sure if the consumer electronics industry is "up" for working at 60 ghz, but what about 17 ghz? Google gets me a lot of theoretical work at both, and engineering discussions of both, but nothing that looks like something otehr than "talkware". Mark Koskenmaki <> Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Is anyone thinking about 17 and 60 ghz?
Tom DeReggi wrote: Anyone that can afford name brand high capacity unlicensed PTPs can afford 60Ghz. You can go 1/2 mile for under $10,000 with Proxim. Financed over 3 years will allow it to be paid for with the first T1 customer. The problem is back hauling it :-) Not all WISPs will be in the position to do that. Also take note that the metrix on shortest hop routing may no longer be applicable. A 5 hop GB network at 2miles each may be faster path than the 10 miles 10mbps backhaul. But what happens the .5% of the time when the GB gets marginal? and the backup slower 10 mile links perform better? And what happens when the link is only as fast as the weakest link in a 5 hop path? It very well may take smarter routing to handle the job than just OSPF, depending on the SLA one needs to deliver. Because capacity and packet loss are the metrix that need to be considered most. If you define an LSP that matches your SLA then MPLS will select any combination of layer 3 routes to encapsulate your customer's traffic. This has the advantage of routing not based on distance metrics, but instead using SLA driven metrics like latency, jitter, and packet loss. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Is anyone thinking about 17 and 60 ghz?
Anyone that can afford name brand high capacity unlicensed PTPs can afford 60Ghz. You can go 1/2 mile for under $10,000 with Proxim. Financed over 3 years will allow it to be paid for with the first T1 customer. The problem is back hauling it :-) Not all WISPs will be in the position to do that. Also take note that the metrix on shortest hop routing may no longer be applicable. A 5 hop GB network at 2miles each may be faster path than the 10 miles 10mbps backhaul. But what happens the .5% of the time when the GB gets marginal? and the backup slower 10 mile links perform better? And what happens when the link is only as fast as the weakest link in a 5 hop path? It very well may take smarter routing to handle the job than just OSPF, depending on the SLA one needs to deliver. Because capacity and packet loss are the metrix that need to be considered most. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Dawn DiPietro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Is anyone thinking about 17 and 60 ghz? Mark, I think 60 Ghz is a good solution if you can afford it. At this point it is still not in the price range of the average WISP but it is great stuff. I think Matt Liotta had a link or 2 with some 60 Ghz gear. Regards, Dawn DiPietro wispa wrote: In the search for the bigger last mile pipe, there's unlicensed at both 17 and 60 ghz. I'm not sure if the consumer electronics industry is "up" for working at 60 ghz, but what about 17 ghz? Google gets me a lot of theoretical work at both, and engineering discussions of both, but nothing that looks like something otehr than "talkware". Mark Koskenmaki <> Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Is anyone thinking about 17 and 60 ghz?
Bridgewave 60Ghz works excellently! Very nice stuff. Full Gbps full duplex speeds. Few computers or laptops, if any at all, can reach those speeds. Our sysadmin figured a way to test capacity with Cisco switches on both ends by flooding the link. Expensive. Yes. I only see it possible to be deployed in 100%-paid-for PtP projects: medical, government, industrial -- anyway it won't go more than ~700meters, the drier the area the better. If I understood correctly, the US Gov bans US 60Ghz manufacturers from exporting their gear outside the US because when the US military goes somewhere they can't find 60Ghz links -- that's how secure it is: very narrow beamwidths (~1*) and complete signal fade after about 1mile. If you don't know the link is there (or you can't see the antennas) it's practically impossible to find the stuff. Whereas for licensed 70 and 80Ghz all you need to do is look in the FCC website to know who deployed what-where-when and how. Regarding deployment: you need TOTAL LOS. Even branches blowing in and out of the path will drop the link. Mario Dawn DiPietro wrote: Mark, I think 60 Ghz is a good solution if you can afford it. At this point it is still not in the price range of the average WISP but it is great stuff. I think Matt Liotta had a link or 2 with some 60 Ghz gear. Regards, Dawn DiPietro wispa wrote: In the search for the bigger last mile pipe, there's unlicensed at both 17 and 60 ghz. I'm not sure if the consumer electronics industry is "up" for working at 60 ghz, but what about 17 ghz? Google gets me a lot of theoretical work at both, and engineering discussions of both, but nothing that looks like something otehr than "talkware". Mark Koskenmaki <> Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Is anyone thinking about 17 and 60 ghz?
Why not? Many are already using KA band on their devices. How many DirecTV, Dish Network and WildBlue dishes do you see? KA Band: 20 GHz and 30 GHz Here's background info on how one company (WildBlue) does it. I had no idea they were using an Anik (Canadian Satellite). http://www.satsig.net/ka-band-anik-f2-wildblue-telesat.htm -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wispa Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 2:55 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Is anyone thinking about 17 and 60 ghz? In the search for the bigger last mile pipe, there's unlicensed at both 17 and 60 ghz. I'm not sure if the consumer electronics industry is "up" for working at 60 ghz, but what about 17 ghz? Google gets me a lot of theoretical work at both, and engineering discussions of both, but nothing that looks like something otehr than "talkware". Mark Koskenmaki <> Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Is anyone thinking about 17 and 60 ghz?
Mark, I think 60 Ghz is a good solution if you can afford it. At this point it is still not in the price range of the average WISP but it is great stuff. I think Matt Liotta had a link or 2 with some 60 Ghz gear. Regards, Dawn DiPietro wispa wrote: In the search for the bigger last mile pipe, there's unlicensed at both 17 and 60 ghz. I'm not sure if the consumer electronics industry is "up" for working at 60 ghz, but what about 17 ghz? Google gets me a lot of theoretical work at both, and engineering discussions of both, but nothing that looks like something otehr than "talkware". Mark Koskenmaki <> Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Is anyone thinking about 17 and 60 ghz?
60 ghz is great stuff! Would be wonderful for PANs. marlon - Original Message - From: "wispa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 11:55 AM Subject: [WISPA] Is anyone thinking about 17 and 60 ghz? In the search for the bigger last mile pipe, there's unlicensed at both 17 and 60 ghz. I'm not sure if the consumer electronics industry is "up" for working at 60 ghz, but what about 17 ghz? Google gets me a lot of theoretical work at both, and engineering discussions of both, but nothing that looks like something otehr than "talkware". Mark Koskenmaki <> Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
