Re: [WISPA] Legal Radio and Antenna Combos - Are there any in existance?

2006-01-30 Thread Bob Moldashel

Jason wrote:


Bob,

I really don't care if it is a CM9, I just wanted the routerboard 
because it can act as an L2TP server.  I did not think that the 
wrap/routerboard controller really mattered because it isn't the 
radio, the mini-pci card is.  So I think the real question is, are 
there any mini-pci/antenna combos that are legal?  Where are the Tons 
of certified combinations and their certs?



There are many manufacturers with certified systems with external 
antennas.  Alvarion, Tranzeo, Trango, etc, etc.  There are no mini-pci 
cards certified with external antennas that we could ever find. Most of 
the boards were recertifed in other manufacturers products as an assembly.




Also you said:
Keep in mind that only a manufacturer of the product can consider it 
an equal or lesser equivalent to what was originally approved 



Directly from the words of the commission's OET people in Washington.



Where did that come from?

Jason

Bob Moldashel wrote:

NahThere are a ton of certified combinations.  There just aren't 
any WRAP/Routerboard/CM9 combos that are certified.


-B-





Kurt Fankhauser wrote:


As far as I know the only certified combo's are Cisco w/ YDI antennas,
and even those are certified right down to the cable length, yes your
cable length has to be certain lengths in order to be legal. If you are
caught with an uncertified system the FCC can tell you to pull the 
plug,

and if you don't you can be fined. As far as I know there is no such
thing as a certified system using WRAP boards or Mikrotik Boards. If 
you

choose to ignore the rules be prepared for a visit from the FCC because
they can knock on your door any day.
Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com
 







--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Legal Radio and Antenna Combos - Are there any in existance?

2006-01-30 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

Hiya Jason,

Why not just buy ISP grade product?  Then you don't have to worry about all 
of this.


AND at 2.4 the CLIENT side isn't limited to 36 dB.  It starts there with a 
30 dB radio with a 6 dB antenna.  For every one db of radio tx dB you drop 
you can go up 3 dB of antenna gain.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 12:26 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Legal Radio and Antenna Combos - Are there any in 
existance?




Everyone,

   I am at my wits end.  I have searched high and low for a mini-pci radio 
 sector antenna combo for an 802.11b AP that are legal under the current 
FCC rules, which by my interpretation are:


1. Total output is 36 dbm or less.

2.  Antenna characteristics must be the same as an antenna that has been 
approved for use with that radio, where TYPE refers to antennas with 
SIMILAR in and out of band radiation patterns.


3.  Antenna gain must be equal to or less than the maximum the radio has 
been approved to work with.


I can NOT find a radio that is approved for any antenna with real gain.  I 
don't want to mind just the SPIRIT of the law, but the law itself.
What combos are you other guys who like building your own system.  I want 
to put together a Mikrotik with 3 radios and sectors for an AP.  The 
sectors I am looking at are:


AntennaGainWidthPol
WRW2400-VF/A/H13dbi120H 
http://www.winncom.com/moreinfo/item/WRW2400-VF/A/H/index.html


DT-AN-24-120H-13513.5120H
https://www.demarctech.com/products/reliawave-antennas/2_4Ghz/DT-AN-24-120H-135.html

DT-AN-24-60120V-152115120V
https://www.demarctech.com/products/reliawave-antennas/2_4Ghz/DT-AN-24-AS-60120V-2115.html

HyperGain® HG2417P-12017dbi120V
http://www.hyperlinktech.com/index.php

Teletronics19120H
http://www.teletronics.com/antenna2-419dBSector.html

Teletronics22140H
http://www.teletronics.com/antenna2-422dBidirectional.html

I am sorry if this table doesn't wrap well on some email clients.
I am still looking for a 18 dbi HZ pol antenna with FCC certs because I 
think it can be used with a  DT-RWZ-200mW-WC, although it is pcmcia and 
I'll have to figure out how to use it with a 500 series RB (Note, there 
are foreign antennas that have 18 dbi, but don't come with FCC certs; see 
my last post).  As far as I can tell, the CM9's can't be used anywhere.
Ideally, I would like to use the 22 dbi Teletronics in my application with 
a 14dbm radio for the greatest receive gain.  Or at least a HZ polarized 
antenna with decent gain.


Anyway, can someone please help.  I appreciate those of you who have 
helped me to even reach this point.


Jason Wallace
WISP startup


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Re: [WISPA] Legal Radio and Antenna Combos - Are there any in existance?

2006-01-30 Thread Jason Wallace

Marlon,

   What would you suggest?  I am afraid of proprietary stuff because I 
don't know enough industry history to understand the players. 


Jason

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

Hiya Jason,

Why not just buy ISP grade product?  Then you don't have to worry 
about all of this.


AND at 2.4 the CLIENT side isn't limited to 36 dB.  It starts there 
with a 30 dB radio with a 6 dB antenna.  For every one db of radio tx 
dB you drop you can go up 3 dB of antenna gain.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 12:26 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Legal Radio and Antenna Combos - Are there any in 
existance?




Everyone,

   I am at my wits end.  I have searched high and low for a mini-pci 
radio  sector antenna combo for an 802.11b AP that are legal under 
the current FCC rules, which by my interpretation are:


1. Total output is 36 dbm or less.

2.  Antenna characteristics must be the same as an antenna that has 
been approved for use with that radio, where TYPE refers to antennas 
with SIMILAR in and out of band radiation patterns.


3.  Antenna gain must be equal to or less than the maximum the radio 
has been approved to work with.


I can NOT find a radio that is approved for any antenna with real 
gain.  I don't want to mind just the SPIRIT of the law, but the law 
itself.
What combos are you other guys who like building your own system.  I 
want to put together a Mikrotik with 3 radios and sectors for an AP.  
The sectors I am looking at are:


AntennaGainWidthPol
WRW2400-VF/A/H13dbi120H 
http://www.winncom.com/moreinfo/item/WRW2400-VF/A/H/index.html


DT-AN-24-120H-13513.5120H
https://www.demarctech.com/products/reliawave-antennas/2_4Ghz/DT-AN-24-120H-135.html 



DT-AN-24-60120V-152115120V
https://www.demarctech.com/products/reliawave-antennas/2_4Ghz/DT-AN-24-AS-60120V-2115.html 



HyperGain® HG2417P-12017dbi120V
http://www.hyperlinktech.com/index.php

Teletronics19120H
http://www.teletronics.com/antenna2-419dBSector.html

Teletronics22140H
http://www.teletronics.com/antenna2-422dBidirectional.html

I am sorry if this table doesn't wrap well on some email clients.
I am still looking for a 18 dbi HZ pol antenna with FCC certs because 
I think it can be used with a  DT-RWZ-200mW-WC, although it is pcmcia 
and I'll have to figure out how to use it with a 500 series RB (Note, 
there are foreign antennas that have 18 dbi, but don't come with FCC 
certs; see my last post).  As far as I can tell, the CM9's can't be 
used anywhere.
Ideally, I would like to use the 22 dbi Teletronics in my application 
with a 14dbm radio for the greatest receive gain.  Or at least a HZ 
polarized antenna with decent gain.


Anyway, can someone please help.  I appreciate those of you who have 
helped me to even reach this point.


Jason Wallace
WISP startup


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Re: [WISPA] Legal Radio and Antenna Combos - Are there any in existance?

2006-01-29 Thread Bob Moldashel

Jason wrote:


Everyone,

   I am at my wits end.  I have searched high and low for a mini-pci 
radio  sector antenna combo for an 802.11b AP that are legal under 
the current FCC rules, which by my interpretation are:


1. Total output is 36 dbm or less.

2.  Antenna characteristics must be the same as an antenna that has 
been approved for use with that radio, where TYPE refers to antennas 
with SIMILAR in and out of band radiation patterns.



Keep in mind that only a manufacturer of the product can consider it an 
equal or lesser equivalent to what was originally approved




3.  Antenna gain must be equal to or less than the maximum the radio 
has been approved to work with.


I can NOT find a radio that is approved for any antenna with real gain.



Um..Yup.  And probably won't..



  I don't want to mind just the SPIRIT of the law, but the law itself.
What combos are you other guys who like building your own system.  I 
want to put together a Mikrotik with 3 radios and sectors for an AP.  
The sectors I am looking at are:


AntennaGainWidthPol  
WRW2400-VF/A/H13dbi120H   
http://www.winncom.com/moreinfo/item/WRW2400-VF/A/H/index.html


DT-AN-24-120H-13513.5120H
https://www.demarctech.com/products/reliawave-antennas/2_4Ghz/DT-AN-24-120H-135.html 



DT-AN-24-60120V-152115120V
https://www.demarctech.com/products/reliawave-antennas/2_4Ghz/DT-AN-24-AS-60120V-2115.html 



HyperGain® HG2417P-12017dbi120V
http://www.hyperlinktech.com/index.php

Teletronics19120H
http://www.teletronics.com/antenna2-419dBSector.html

Teletronics22140H
http://www.teletronics.com/antenna2-422dBidirectional.html

I am sorry if this table doesn't wrap well on some email clients.
I am still looking for a 18 dbi HZ pol antenna with FCC certs because 
I think it can be used with a  DT-RWZ-200mW-WC, although it is pcmcia 
and I'll have to figure out how to use it with a 500 series RB (Note, 
there are foreign antennas that have 18 dbi, but don't come with FCC 
certs; see my last post).  As far as I can tell, the CM9's can't be 
used anywhere.



Ahh...Yup.  :-)

Ideally, I would like to use the 22 dbi Teletronics in my application 
with a 14dbm radio for the greatest receive gain.  Or at least a HZ 
polarized antenna with decent gain.


Anyway, can someone please help.  I appreciate those of you who have 
helped me to even reach this point.


Jason Wallace
WISP startup




Unfortunately there are all kinds of opinions here regarding the FCC 
rules as they pertain to Part 15 equipment.  I have been to the 
Commission.  I have met with the OET group and I have heard their 
interpretation. I was there with Marlon, Tom, and Patrick Leary from 
Alvarion.


Only a manufacturer can state what antenna qualifies as a substitute.  
Just FYI.


-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Legal Radio and Antenna Combos - Are there any in existance?

2006-01-29 Thread Bob Moldashel

Bob Moldashel wrote:


Jason wrote:


Everyone,

   I am at my wits end.  I have searched high and low for a mini-pci 
radio  sector antenna combo for an 802.11b AP that are legal under 
the current FCC rules, which by my interpretation are:


1. Total output is 36 dbm or less.

2.  Antenna characteristics must be the same as an antenna that has 
been approved for use with that radio, where TYPE refers to antennas 
with SIMILAR in and out of band radiation patterns.




Keep in mind that only a manufacturer of the product can consider it 
an equal or lesser equivalent to what was originally approved




3.  Antenna gain must be equal to or less than the maximum the radio 
has been approved to work with.


I can NOT find a radio that is approved for any antenna with real gain.




Um..Yup.  And probably won't..



  I don't want to mind just the SPIRIT of the law, but the law itself.
What combos are you other guys who like building your own system.  I 
want to put together a Mikrotik with 3 radios and sectors for an AP.  
The sectors I am looking at are:


AntennaGainWidthPol  
WRW2400-VF/A/H13dbi120H   
http://www.winncom.com/moreinfo/item/WRW2400-VF/A/H/index.html


DT-AN-24-120H-13513.5120H
https://www.demarctech.com/products/reliawave-antennas/2_4Ghz/DT-AN-24-120H-135.html 



DT-AN-24-60120V-152115120V
https://www.demarctech.com/products/reliawave-antennas/2_4Ghz/DT-AN-24-AS-60120V-2115.html 



HyperGain® HG2417P-12017dbi120V
http://www.hyperlinktech.com/index.php

Teletronics19120H
http://www.teletronics.com/antenna2-419dBSector.html

Teletronics22140H
http://www.teletronics.com/antenna2-422dBidirectional.html

I am sorry if this table doesn't wrap well on some email clients.
I am still looking for a 18 dbi HZ pol antenna with FCC certs because 
I think it can be used with a  DT-RWZ-200mW-WC, although it is pcmcia 
and I'll have to figure out how to use it with a 500 series RB (Note, 
there are foreign antennas that have 18 dbi, but don't come with FCC 
certs; see my last post).  As far as I can tell, the CM9's can't be 
used anywhere.




Ahh...Yup.  :-)

Ideally, I would like to use the 22 dbi Teletronics in my application 
with a 14dbm radio for the greatest receive gain.  Or at least a HZ 
polarized antenna with decent gain.


Anyway, can someone please help.  I appreciate those of you who have 
helped me to even reach this point.


Jason Wallace
WISP startup




Unfortunately there are all kinds of opinions here regarding the FCC 
rules as they pertain to Part 15 equipment.  I have been to the 
Commission.  I have met with the OET group and I have heard their 
interpretation. I was there with Marlon, Tom, and Patrick Leary from 
Alvarion.


Only a manufacturer can state what antenna qualifies as a substitute.  
Just FYI.


-B-


Ohhh...And George too!  Sorry George.  :-)

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Legal Radio and Antenna Combos - Are there any in existance?

2006-01-29 Thread Brian Rohrbacher

What enforcement team?  ;)

Kurt Fankhauser wrote:


As far as I know the only certified combo's are Cisco w/ YDI antennas,
and even those are certified right down to the cable length, yes your
cable length has to be certain lengths in order to be legal. If you are
caught with an uncertified system the FCC can tell you to pull the plug,
and if you don't you can be fined. As far as I know there is no such
thing as a certified system using WRAP boards or Mikrotik Boards. If you
choose to ignore the rules be prepared for a visit from the FCC because
they can knock on your door any day. 


Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jason
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 12:26 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Legal Radio and Antenna Combos - Are there any in
existance?

Everyone,

   I am at my wits end.  I have searched high and low for a mini-pci 
radio  sector antenna combo for an 802.11b AP that are legal under the 
current FCC rules, which by my interpretation are:


1. Total output is 36 dbm or less.

2.  Antenna characteristics must be the same as an antenna that has been

approved for use with that radio, where TYPE refers to antennas with 
SIMILAR in and out of band radiation patterns.


3.  Antenna gain must be equal to or less than the maximum the radio has

been approved to work with.

I can NOT find a radio that is approved for any antenna with real gain.

I don't want to mind just the SPIRIT of the law, but the law itself. 

What combos are you other guys who like building your own system.  I 
want to put together a Mikrotik with 3 radios and sectors for an AP.  
The sectors I am looking at are:


AntennaGainWidthPol   

WRW2400-VF/A/H13dbi120H   
http://www.winncom.com/moreinfo/item/WRW2400-VF/A/H/index.html


DT-AN-24-120H-13513.5120H
https://www.demarctech.com/products/reliawave-antennas/2_4Ghz/DT-AN-24-1
20H-135.html

DT-AN-24-60120V-152115120V
https://www.demarctech.com/products/reliawave-antennas/2_4Ghz/DT-AN-24-A
S-60120V-2115.html

HyperGainR HG2417P-12017dbi120V
http://www.hyperlinktech.com/index.php

Teletronics19120H
http://www.teletronics.com/antenna2-419dBSector.html

Teletronics22140H
http://www.teletronics.com/antenna2-422dBidirectional.html

I am sorry if this table doesn't wrap well on some email clients. 

I am still looking for a 18 dbi HZ pol antenna with FCC certs because I 
think it can be used with a  DT-RWZ-200mW-WC, although it is pcmcia and 
I'll have to figure out how to use it with a 500 series RB (Note, there 
are foreign antennas that have 18 dbi, but don't come with FCC certs; 
see my last post).  As far as I can tell, the CM9's can't be used 
anywhere. 

Ideally, I would like to use the 22 dbi Teletronics in my application 
with a 14dbm radio for the greatest receive gain.  Or at least a HZ 
polarized antenna with decent gain.


Anyway, can someone please help.  I appreciate those of you who have 
helped me to even reach this point.


Jason Wallace
WISP startup


 



--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17

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Re: [WISPA] Legal Radio and Antenna Combos - Are there any in existance?

2006-01-29 Thread Bob Moldashel
NahThere are a ton of certified combinations.  There just aren't any 
WRAP/Routerboard/CM9 combos that are certified.


-B-





Kurt Fankhauser wrote:


As far as I know the only certified combo's are Cisco w/ YDI antennas,
and even those are certified right down to the cable length, yes your
cable length has to be certain lengths in order to be legal. If you are
caught with an uncertified system the FCC can tell you to pull the plug,
and if you don't you can be fined. As far as I know there is no such
thing as a certified system using WRAP boards or Mikrotik Boards. If you
choose to ignore the rules be prepared for a visit from the FCC because
they can knock on your door any day. 


Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com
 




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

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Re: [WISPA] Legal Radio and Antenna Combos - Are there any in existance?

2006-01-29 Thread Jason

Bob,

I really don't care if it is a CM9, I just wanted the routerboard 
because it can act as an L2TP server.  I did not think that the 
wrap/routerboard controller really mattered because it isn't the radio, 
the mini-pci card is.  So I think the real question is, are there any 
mini-pci/antenna combos that are legal?  Where are the Tons of 
certified combinations and their certs?


Also you said:
Keep in mind that only a manufacturer of the product can consider it an 
equal or lesser equivalent to what was originally approved 


Where did that come from?

Jason

Bob Moldashel wrote:

NahThere are a ton of certified combinations.  There just aren't 
any WRAP/Routerboard/CM9 combos that are certified.


-B-





Kurt Fankhauser wrote:


As far as I know the only certified combo's are Cisco w/ YDI antennas,
and even those are certified right down to the cable length, yes your
cable length has to be certain lengths in order to be legal. If you are
caught with an uncertified system the FCC can tell you to pull the plug,
and if you don't you can be fined. As far as I know there is no such
thing as a certified system using WRAP boards or Mikrotik Boards. If you
choose to ignore the rules be prepared for a visit from the FCC because
they can knock on your door any day.
Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com
 





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