Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

2006-08-28 Thread David E. Smith
Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:
 We are building an AP unit for the middle and we figured that BGP was
 for the edge with several outlets where you would typically have a
 larger server.

Darn, I was actually thinking about using iBGP and private ASNs on a
bunch of towers. More reliable than RIP, easier to set up than OSPF,
more flexible than both.

David Smith
MVN.net
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Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

2006-08-24 Thread Lonnie Nunweiler

We are building an AP unit for the middle and we figured that BGP was
for the edge with several outlets where you would typically have a
larger server.

Lonnie

On 8/23/06, David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:

 We support RIP, OSPF and OLSR Mesh, with mesh being the one we like the
 best.

Verging horribly off-topic for this, but out of curiosity, why did you
remove BGP support from V3?

David Smith
MVN.net
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Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

2006-08-24 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
In my case, all servers are in boxes in the air, on the roof, or
otherwise.   BGP needs to be in the regular AP version.


- Original Message - 
From: Lonnie Nunweiler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:51 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network


 We are building an AP unit for the middle and we figured that BGP was
 for the edge with several outlets where you would typically have a
 larger server.

 Lonnie

 On 8/23/06, David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:
 
   We support RIP, OSPF and OLSR Mesh, with mesh being the one we like
the
   best.
 
  Verging horribly off-topic for this, but out of curiosity, why did you
  remove BGP support from V3?
 
  David Smith
  MVN.net
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 http://www.star-os.com/
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Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

2006-08-24 Thread Lonnie Nunweiler

Are you actually carrying your traffic, with your own approved public
IP assignment to several carriers and they accept and route that
traffic to and from the Internet?  Any time I requested that it was a
very expensive proposition to have and they also only did large blocks
of publics.  I guess times have changed.

We have our network carrying our traffic to several feed points and we
do nat at that time.  Using policy routing and mesh we deliver to any
number of available ADSL lines and T1 connections.

Lonnie




On 8/24/06, Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

In my case, all servers are in boxes in the air, on the roof, or
otherwise.   BGP needs to be in the regular AP version.


- Original Message -
From: Lonnie Nunweiler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:51 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network


 We are building an AP unit for the middle and we figured that BGP was
 for the edge with several outlets where you would typically have a
 larger server.

 Lonnie

 On 8/23/06, David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:
 
   We support RIP, OSPF and OLSR Mesh, with mesh being the one we like
the
   best.
 
  Verging horribly off-topic for this, but out of curiosity, why did you
  remove BGP support from V3?
 
  David Smith
  MVN.net
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 http://www.star-os.com/
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Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

2006-08-23 Thread Jason Hensley



Thanks for the info Mac. 

First, I'm not that concerned about the CPE utility 
working. That's one reason I like the static IP setup - I know what user 
has what IP and how to get to their CPE. 

For the VLAN switch (that I'm not familiar with at 
all) can you tell me how this would work on a 2 hop setup? Basically 
what I have is Tower 1 to Tower 2 using 5.8 backhaul, then Tower 2 to NOC using 
another 5.8 backhaul. Where would I drop the switch, or do I need one 
ateachtower?

Main thing / challenge that I'm seeing right now is 
that, like someone else mentioned either here or on the other list, is that I 
cannot do true routing with TR-6000's (my AP's). So, what I've 
gottofigure out how to get past that. I'm considering 
replacing the6000's with Mikrotik's, but not sure about that 100% 
yet.  

I think I've been talked out of using the public 
IP's on each CPE ;-) and am now planning to do 1-1 NAT. But, I'm 
just having trouble picturing in my head how I'm going to do this - especially 
with the TR6000 routing capabilities (or lack of). 

Public IP's, at least for now, are pretty easy for 
me to get. I could easily justify another /24 to my upstream, but beyond 
that, it would take some pretty convincing data for me to get more. But, 
once I get to that size, I'll be looking at buying my own block(s). 



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Mac Dearman 
  
  To: 'WISPA General List' 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:48 
  AM
  Subject: RE: [WISPA] Managing CPE in 
  routed network
  
  
  Jason,
  
   I had 
  one of the largest bridged networks ever as I cover 15-18% of the State with 
  wireless. I can tell you a few things about bridging-vs-routing and I aint 
  getting into that, but I can tell you that I don’t think you will want a 
  totally static routed network either. That is not necessary unless you have 
  50-60 clients to the AP and have multiple hops with that type of traffic. You 
  do need to be in a routed environment today, but IMHO not in the way the 
  majority would steer you.
  
  
  Ok, this may be a simple question, 
  but I'm trying tofigure the best way to do this. My wireless 
  network is currently all bridged with three different POP's (all statically 
  assigned private IP's). I'm getting requests forpublic IP 
  addresses and as I add more clients, I feel like I'm really going to need to 
  have a routed network. 
  
  
  There are many ways 
  to accomplish what you need to have done and I suggest that you look at each 
  one of the suggestions that will have been made and get a good understanding 
  of what will be required down the road to continue what you start. There are a 
  couple very simple solutions that will work, but then there are many ways to 
  accomplish the same task using static routing.
  
  
Simplest and fastest (maybe 
best) is to use layer 2 switches utilizing VLANS. You can get a switch like 
a ($250.00) Linksys SRW224G4 (naturally there are better but that will 
work fine) as there are whole Counties utilizing networks with the Linksys 
switches and routing and they aren’t even wireless, but fiber! 
Arlington County Virginia is just one example and they 
do the back up for the Pentagon and they are a huge completely bridged 
network. 
Keep your bridged environment 
between your APs and your clients, but route the backbone to all of your 
towers. It will break up the broadcast packets...etc from tower to tower, 
will segment each tower and will not allow a single clients virus to sweep 
through your entire network and have rolling outages. It also keeps you from 
having to use 10 subnets/ip ranges for 3 towers and allows for unlimited 
growth potential. 
  
  
  My biggest question is, how do you 
  manage your CPE remotely in a routed network? Right now I'm pretty much 
  90% Tranzeo gear (mixture of CPE-15's and CPQ gear). If a customer calls 
  with performance or other problems, I'm able to log into their CPE from here 
  to see what's going on from that end. I would much rather maintain that 
  ability but not sure how to do that with a routed network. 
  
  
  I understand this 
  question as only another etherant/Tranzeo CPE user would :) Once you 
  enter a routed environment on the backhaul or otherwise – your scan utility 
  will not scan but to the first router where it will loose its ability to go 
  any farther as the scan tool uses broadcast packets to seek its objects and 
  the router kills broadcast packets. You will have to log every IP on your 
  network and access the antennas via HTTP. (web interface) The scan tool will 
  still be functional at each individual tower and will capture the antennas on 
  the wireless AP you are attached to at the moment. If you maintain a bridged 
  network w/VLANS then the scan tool and everything else will work as it does 
  now.
  
  
  
  
  Also, I would ideally like to have 
  a public IP assigned to each CPE

Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

2006-08-22 Thread Sam Tetherow
In my network I assign a private IP to the CPE and a 'similar' IP to the 
customer. 

For instance if I assign 10.1.1.100 to the customer then I assigned 
10.101.1.100 to the CPE.  Easy to remember the CPE address given the 
customers IP. 

Each AP gets it's own class C. I then do 1 to 1 NAT at the edge of my 
network for the customer if they need an external IP address.  I have 
yet to find an instance where this has been an issue for the customer.


From outside my network I VPN in to be able to access my 
infrastructure.  I don't think I would want to give my CPEs (or any 
other infrastructure) public routable network addresses.


   Sam Tetherow
   Sandhills Wireless

Jason Hensley wrote:
Ok, this may be a simple question, but I'm trying to figure the best 
way to do this.  My wireless network is currently all bridged with 
three different POP's (all statically assigned private IP's).  I'm 
getting requests for public IP addresses and as I add more clients, I 
feel like I'm really going to need to have a routed network.
 
My biggest question is, how do you manage your CPE remotely in a 
routed network?  Right now I'm pretty much 90% Tranzeo gear (mixture 
of CPE-15's and CPQ gear).  If a customer calls with performance or 
other problems, I'm able to log into their CPE from here to see what's 
going on from that end.  I would much rather maintain that ability but 
not sure how to do that with a routed network. 
 
Also, I would ideally like to have a public IP assigned to each CPE.  
The double NAT'ing I've got going right now has been causing a few 
issues, plus, I'm getting more business customers that want VPN and 
Remote Access to their network. 
 
I realize this will take subnetting to make it happen.  I've got a /24 
right now and can easily bump to more when needed. 
 
How are the rest of you handling your setups like this? 
 
Thanks in advance!
 



*Jason Hensley, MCP+I
President*

*Mozarks Technologies*
909 Preacher Roe Blvd
West Plains, MO  65775

[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.mozarks.com

417.256.7946
417.257.2415 (fax)

!DSPAM:16,44eb863835541702512215! 
http://mail.shwisp.net/spam/dspam.cgi?template=historyuser=tetherowretrain=spamsignatureID=16,44eb863835541702512215 



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RE: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

2006-08-22 Thread Mark McElvy








In the end I feel routed is better because
you grow, a bridged network will get loud (lots of overhead traffic).



You manage the CPE in a routed network
just as you do now. What maybe you see is the difference between true routes
and NAT routes. With true routes there is a path to and from each subnet. You can
easily get to the web interface of each CPE in a properly routed network. A NAT
router hides the network behind the WAN address whether its
private or public and all traffic coming from the NAT subnet appears as if its
coming from the WAN address. Tranzeo APs, last time I tried, will
not do true routing only NAT routing.



I also like the idea of one to one NATing
the Public IP to the private ip of the customer.



Mark McElvy

AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.

573-729-9200











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006
5:32 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED];
WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Managing CPE in
routed network







Ok, this may be a simple question, but I'm trying
tofigure the best way to do this. My wireless network is currently
all bridged with three different POP's (all statically assigned private
IP's). I'm getting requests forpublic IP addresses and as I add
more clients, I feel like I'm really going to need to have a routed network. 











My biggest question is, how do you manage your CPE remotely
in a routed network? Right now I'm pretty much 90% Tranzeo gear (mixture
of CPE-15's and CPQ gear). If a customer calls with performance or other
problems, I'm able to log into their CPE from here to see what's going on from
that end. I would much rather maintain that ability but not sure how to
do that with a routed network. 











Also, I would ideally like to have a public IP assigned to
each CPE. The double NAT'ing I've got going right now has been causing a
few issues, plus, I'm getting more business customers that want VPN and Remote
Access to their network. 











I realize this will take subnetting to make it happen.
I've got a /24 right now and can easily bump to more when needed. 











How are the rest of you handling your setups like
this? 











Thanks in advance!

















Jason Hensley, MCP+I
President

Mozarks Technologies
909 Preacher Roe Blvd
West Plains, MO 65775

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.mozarks.com

417.256.7946
417.257.2415 (fax) 








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Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

2006-08-22 Thread Jason Hensley



That is correct on the Tranzeo AP's, but, I'm 
considering replacing the TR-6000's I have with RB532's to give me more 
flexibility, and give true bandwidth shaping at the AP instead of at my headend. 




  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Mark McElvy 
  
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:07 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [WISPA] Managing CPE in 
  routed network
  
  
  In the end I feel 
  routed is better because you grow, a bridged network will get loud (lots of 
  overhead traffic).
  
  You manage the CPE in 
  a routed network just as you do now. What maybe you see is the difference 
  between true routes and NAT routes. With true routes there is a path to and 
  from each subnet. You can easily get to the web interface of each CPE in a 
  properly routed network. A NAT router hides the network behind the “WAN” 
  address whether its private or public and all traffic coming from the NAT 
  subnet appears as if its coming from the “WAN” address. Tranzeo APs, last time 
  I tried, will not do true routing only NAT 
  routing.
  
  I also like the idea 
  of one to one NATing the Public IP to the private ip of the 
  customer.
  
  Mark 
  McElvy
  AccuBak Data Systems, 
  Inc.
  573-729-9200
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason HensleySent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 5:32 
  PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA 
  General ListSubject: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed 
  network
  
  
  Ok, this may be a simple question, 
  but I'm trying tofigure the best way to do this. My wireless 
  network is currently all bridged with three different POP's (all statically 
  assigned private IP's). I'm getting requests forpublic IP 
  addresses and as I add more clients, I feel like I'm really going to need to 
  have a routed network. 
  
  
  
  My biggest question is, how do you 
  manage your CPE remotely in a routed network? Right now I'm pretty much 
  90% Tranzeo gear (mixture of CPE-15's and CPQ gear). If a customer calls 
  with performance or other problems, I'm able to log into their CPE from here 
  to see what's going on from that end. I would much rather maintain that 
  ability but not sure how to do that with a routed network. 
  
  
  
  
  Also, I would ideally like to have 
  a public IP assigned to each CPE. The double NAT'ing I've got going 
  right now has been causing a few issues, plus, I'm getting more business 
  customers that want VPN and Remote Access to their network. 
  
  
  
  
  I realize this will take 
  subnetting to make it happen. I've got a /24 right now and can easily 
  bump to more when needed. 
  
  
  
  How are the rest of you handling 
  your setups like this? 
  
  
  
  Thanks in 
  advance!
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Jason 
  Hensley, MCP+IPresident
  Mozarks 
  Technologies909 Preacher Roe 
  BlvdWest Plains, MO 
  65775
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.mozarks.com417.256.7946417.257.2415 
  (fax) 
  
  

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RE: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

2006-08-22 Thread Mark McElvy








I am currently using WRAP/StarOS for APs,
routing back to a StarOS Head end router that is doing the shaping. I am a fan
of centralized administration, I use MAC/Radius Auth for the SOS APs, but
Atheros radios do not support this.



Mark McElvy

AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.

Salem, MO

573-729-9200









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006
6:23 PM
To: WISPA
 General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE
in routed network







That is correct on the Tranzeo AP's, but, I'm considering
replacing the TR-6000's I have with RB532's to give me more flexibility, and
give true bandwidth shaping at the AP instead of at my headend. 



















- Original Message - 





From: Mark McElvy 





To: WISPA General List






Sent: Tuesday, August
22, 2006 6:07 PM





Subject: RE: [WISPA]
Managing CPE in routed network









In the end I feel routed is better because
you grow, a bridged network will get loud (lots of overhead traffic).



You manage the CPE in a routed network
just as you do now. What maybe you see is the difference between true routes
and NAT routes. With true routes there is a path to and from each subnet. You
can easily get to the web interface of each CPE in a properly routed network. A
NAT router hides the network behind the WAN address whether its
private or public and all traffic coming from the NAT subnet appears as if its
coming from the WAN address. Tranzeo APs, last time I tried, will
not do true routing only NAT routing.



I also like the idea of one to one NATing
the Public IP to the private ip of the customer.



Mark McElvy

AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.

573-729-9200











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006
5:32 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED];
WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Managing CPE in
routed network







Ok, this may be a simple question, but I'm trying
tofigure the best way to do this. My wireless network is currently
all bridged with three different POP's (all statically assigned private
IP's). I'm getting requests forpublic IP addresses and as I add
more clients, I feel like I'm really going to need to have a routed network. 











My biggest question is, how do you manage your CPE remotely
in a routed network? Right now I'm pretty much 90% Tranzeo gear (mixture
of CPE-15's and CPQ gear). If a customer calls with performance or other
problems, I'm able to log into their CPE from here to see what's going on from
that end. I would much rather maintain that ability but not sure how to
do that with a routed network. 











Also, I would ideally like to have a public IP assigned to
each CPE. The double NAT'ing I've got going right now has been causing a
few issues, plus, I'm getting more business customers that want VPN and Remote
Access to their network. 











I realize this will take subnetting to make it happen.
I've got a /24 right now and can easily bump to more when needed. 











How are the rest of you handling your setups like
this? 











Thanks in advance!

















Jason Hensley, MCP+I
President

Mozarks Technologies
909 Preacher Roe Blvd
West Plains, MO 65775

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.mozarks.com

417.256.7946
417.257.2415 (fax) 









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