Re: [WISPA] OT Question....

2009-10-30 Thread David E. Smith
On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 09:14, Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net wrote:

 Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network
 guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link.
  :-)

 What does this tell everybody???   Its from a Cisco 2960 switch.


Honestly, that's about all it tells you - the link went down at 8:12:19, up
at 13:52:16, down again at 15:15:10 and up at 16:26:29.

As far as the switch can tell, it thinks someone unplugged the cable. This
could mean any of about a zillion things that would cause an Ethernet link
to drop; the switch doesn't know the difference.

-- 
David Smith
MVN.net



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Re: [WISPA] OT Question....

2009-10-30 Thread Jason Hensley
Don't know that there's much more you could get from this other than just
up/down.  Seems like a strong possibility of a bad cable to me, but of
course, many other possibilities. 



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 9:14 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] OT Question

Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network 
guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link.  :-)

What does this tell everybody???   Its from a Cisco 2960 switch.

Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down
Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
changed state to down
Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
changed state to up
Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up
Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down
Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
changed state to down
Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
changed state to up


I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything 
else? 

Tnx.

-B-

-B-




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Re: [WISPA] OT Question....

2009-10-30 Thread Bob Moldashel
So this is showing a hard disconnect?  No chance the port was shut off?  
Any chance its a bad GBIC ?

Tnx

-B-




Jason Hensley wrote:
 Don't know that there's much more you could get from this other than just
 up/down.  Seems like a strong possibility of a bad cable to me, but of
 course, many other possibilities. 



 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
 Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] OT Question

 Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network 
 guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link.  :-)

 What does this tell everybody???   Its from a Cisco 2960 switch.

 Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down
 Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to down
 Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to up
 Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up
 Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down
 Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to down
 Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to up


 I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything 
 else? 

 Tnx.

 -B-

 -B-


 
 
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Re: [WISPA] OT Question....

2009-10-30 Thread Faisal Imtiaz
Hi Bob,
This shows the port simply going up and down. And noting more.

Is this a Fiber Port ? Or Copper ?

If copper, then the wire needs to be tested, (no loose connector, right kind
of cable, cat6, and the cable not exceeding 300ft,etc.)

If it is fiber then, check the fiber, clean the fiber, check the SFP/GBIC,
clear them, reseat them, confirm that you are using right cable (single mode
or MultiMode) and the SFP/GBIC's Match, and depending on the length of
cable, make sure your light levels are good, there is no kink in cable etc)
Don't mix MultiMode cables with Single Mode Cables Connectors..

TIP, fiber cables / SFP/GBIC, you can test each side by doing a LoopBack on
the Far end... To do a loopback in fiber world, you just have to find a way
to connect the two ends of the fiber cable together.


Additionally, you may want to setup the devices on both side to be Fixed
1000FDX rather than Auto negotiate.

Regards 


Faisal Imtiaz
SnappyDSL.net
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:14 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] OT Question

Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network guy.
But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link.  :-)

What does this tell everybody???   Its from a Cisco 2960 switch.

Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST:
%LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27
13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed
state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on
Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST:
%LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed
state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface
GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST:
%LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up


I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything else?


Tnx.

-B-

-B-




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Re: [WISPA] OT Question....

2009-10-30 Thread Nick Huanca
show int gi0/21 cou err

This could show if there are any errors and what type they are.

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Jason Hensley ja...@jaggartech.comwrote:

 Don't know that there's much more you could get from this other than just
 up/down.  Seems like a strong possibility of a bad cable to me, but of
 course, many other possibilities.



 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
 Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] OT Question

 Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network
 guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link.
  :-)

 What does this tell everybody???   Its from a Cisco 2960 switch.

 Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down
 Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to down
 Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to up
 Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up
 Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down
 Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to down
 Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to up


 I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything
 else?

 Tnx.

 -B-

 -B-



 
 
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PRIVACY AND CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:  This communication and any files
transmitted with it are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and
may contain confidential, proprietary and/or legally privileged or protected
information.  If you believe you have received this communication in error,
please immediately reply to the sender and delete this message.  Any use,
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Re: [WISPA] OT Question....

2009-10-30 Thread Nick Huanca
If you're seeing carrier-sens or alignment errors things like duplex could
be the issue. Most common issue is cable crimp or continuity on the line.

These will show up with input errors, etc.

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Nick Huanca n...@greataukwireless.comwrote:

 show int gi0/21 cou err

 This could show if there are any errors and what type they are.

 On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Jason Hensley ja...@jaggartech.comwrote:

 Don't know that there's much more you could get from this other than just
 up/down.  Seems like a strong possibility of a bad cable to me, but of
 course, many other possibilities.



 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
 Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 9:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] OT Question

 Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network
 guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link.
  :-)

 What does this tell everybody???   Its from a Cisco 2960 switch.

 Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down
 Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to down
 Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to up
 Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up
 Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down
 Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to down
 Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to up


 I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything
 else?

 Tnx.

 -B-

 -B-



 
 
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 --
 Nick Huanca
 Inside Plant Manager

 GAW High-Speed Internet
 1 Pearson Way
 Suite 100
 Enfield, CT 06082

 [office] (877) 5-GET-GAW (877.543.8429) x214
 [direct] (413) 203-4910
 [mobile] (413) 570-0120
 www.gaw.com
 ---
 PRIVACY AND CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:  This communication and any files
 transmitted with it are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and
 may contain confidential, proprietary and/or legally privileged or protected
 information.  If you believe you have received this communication in error,
 please immediately reply to the sender and delete this message.  Any use,
 disclosure, retransmission, distribution, copying, or taking of any action
 based on this information by any person or entity other than the intended
 recipient is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  Because e-mail can be
 altered electronically, the integrity of this communication cannot be
 guaranteed.




-- 
Nick Huanca
Inside Plant Manager

GAW High-Speed Internet
1 Pearson Way
Suite 100
Enfield, CT 06082

[office] (877) 5-GET-GAW (877.543.8429) x214
[direct] (413) 203-4910
[mobile] (413) 570-0120
www.gaw.com
---
PRIVACY AND CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:  This communication and any files
transmitted with it are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and
may contain confidential, proprietary and/or legally privileged or protected
information.  If you believe you have received this communication in error,
please immediately reply to the sender and delete this message.  Any use,
disclosure, retransmission, distribution, copying, or taking of any action
based on this information by any person or entity other than the intended
recipient is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  Because e-mail can be
altered electronically, the integrity of this communication cannot be
guaranteed.



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Re: [WISPA] OT Question....

2009-10-30 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
I've had that happen here when I picked up a LOT of RF on an ethernet cable.

I've also seen it when a device didn't auto negotiate correctly with a Cisco 
switch (they seem to suck).  I now force all of my Cisco switches to a set 
port speed rather than allowing auto negotiation.

Just for kicks, replaces both ends, maybe the cable too.

I've also started putting Ferrite beads on a lot of things.  That seems to 
greatly help my ethernet stability.

I also saw a port do this after a storm, I tried a different port and it's 
fine, so port damage from a power event of some kind.

Hope that helps,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 7:14 AM
Subject: [WISPA] OT Question


 Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network
 guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link. 
 :-)

 What does this tell everybody???   Its from a Cisco 2960 switch.

 Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down
 Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to down
 Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to up
 Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up
 Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down
 Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to down
 Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to up


 I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything
 else?

 Tnx.

 -B-

 -B-


 
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Re: [WISPA] OT Question....

2009-10-30 Thread Kevin Neal
Does the wireless link by chance have the rapid port shutdown feature?
 If so, you may have a wireless link issue.

-Kevin


On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 8:14 AM, Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net wrote:
 Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network
 guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link.  :-)

 What does this tell everybody???   Its from a Cisco 2960 switch.

 Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down
 Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to down
 Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to up
 Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up
 Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down
 Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to down
 Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to up


 I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything
 else?

 Tnx.

 -B-

 -B-


 
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Re: [WISPA] OT Question....

2009-10-30 Thread Bob Moldashel
To All,

OK  Its a fiber interface.  The system has been working fine.

Configuration is this:

2960 --- fiber --- Gig Radio  60ghz  Gig Radio  
---fiber 2960

The interface went down twice in the same day. The radio never went 
down. the fiber tests fine and no one has screwed with it. They are 
short runs. This is a new deployment that has been up for about 6 weeks. 
Fiber is all multimode 62.5 mm. It has not been intermittent. It just 
went down hard twice one day and has been fine since. And when it went 
down it went down at 8:15 am and came back up at 2pm then went back down 
at 2pm and came back up at 4:30 and has been fine since.  Both sites are 
rooftop locations and it was raining the day the event happened so no 
one was working in the vacinity of the equipment. And it has rained on 
and off here for the past 3 weeks with no issues otherwise so I am 
ruling out weather. The radio link never goes down. Ever. So its not 
rain taking out the 60 Ghz. hop.

OK   Teaching moment...  :-)

For those of you that are not aware most Gigabit radios when they loose 
their RF link shut down their gig ports on both sides to indicate a hard 
failure. This obviously expedites things like OSPF and such for rerouting.

Just really weird

-B-

Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
 Hi Bob,
 This shows the port simply going up and down. And noting more.

 Is this a Fiber Port ? Or Copper ?

 If copper, then the wire needs to be tested, (no loose connector, right kind
 of cable, cat6, and the cable not exceeding 300ft,etc.)

 If it is fiber then, check the fiber, clean the fiber, check the SFP/GBIC,
 clear them, reseat them, confirm that you are using right cable (single mode
 or MultiMode) and the SFP/GBIC's Match, and depending on the length of
 cable, make sure your light levels are good, there is no kink in cable etc)
 Don't mix MultiMode cables with Single Mode Cables Connectors..

 TIP, fiber cables / SFP/GBIC, you can test each side by doing a LoopBack on
 the Far end... To do a loopback in fiber world, you just have to find a way
 to connect the two ends of the fiber cable together.


 Additionally, you may want to setup the devices on both side to be Fixed
 1000FDX rather than Auto negotiate.

 Regards 


 Faisal Imtiaz
 SnappyDSL.net
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
 Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] OT Question

 Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network guy.
 But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link.  :-)

 What does this tell everybody???   Its from a Cisco 2960 switch.

 Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST:
 %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27
 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed
 state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on
 Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST:
 %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed
 state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST:
 %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up


 I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything else?


 Tnx.

 -B-

 -B-


 
 
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Re: [WISPA] OT Question....

2009-10-30 Thread Bob Moldashel
Its fiber.   And I would think if it was an autonegotiate issue it would 
have been intermittent all along.  It has been operating pretty nuch 
error free other than this event.

But I guess I could try the ferrite beads on the fiber.  Hey..It 
wouldn't hurt. :-P

Tnx
 



Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I've had that happen here when I picked up a LOT of RF on an ethernet cable.

 I've also seen it when a device didn't auto negotiate correctly with a Cisco 
 switch (they seem to suck).  I now force all of my Cisco switches to a set 
 port speed rather than allowing auto negotiation.

 Just for kicks, replaces both ends, maybe the cable too.

 I've also started putting Ferrite beads on a lot of things.  That seems to 
 greatly help my ethernet stability.

 I also saw a port do this after a storm, I tried a different port and it's 
 fine, so port damage from a power event of some kind.

 Hope that helps,
 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 7:14 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] OT Question


   
 Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network
 guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link. 
 :-)

 What does this tell everybody???   Its from a Cisco 2960 switch.

 Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down
 Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to down
 Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to up
 Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up
 Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down
 Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to down
 Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to up


 I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything
 else?

 Tnx.

 -B-

 -B-


 
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Re: [WISPA] OT Question....

2009-10-30 Thread Bret Clark
How close are these links? We find that at 0.10 in/hr of rain fall will
cause our 60GHz link to drop and because of the Ethernet follows
Wireless setting this also drops our Ethernet connection, normally we
only see this in hard rain. 


On Fri, 2009-10-30 at 10:55 -0400, Bob Moldashel wrote:

 To All,
 
 OK  Its a fiber interface.  The system has been working fine.
 
 Configuration is this:
 
 2960 --- fiber --- Gig Radio  60ghz  Gig Radio  
 ---fiber 2960
 
 The interface went down twice in the same day. The radio never went 
 down. the fiber tests fine and no one has screwed with it. They are 
 short runs. This is a new deployment that has been up for about 6 weeks. 
 Fiber is all multimode 62.5 mm. It has not been intermittent. It just 
 went down hard twice one day and has been fine since. And when it went 
 down it went down at 8:15 am and came back up at 2pm then went back down 
 at 2pm and came back up at 4:30 and has been fine since.  Both sites are 
 rooftop locations and it was raining the day the event happened so no 
 one was working in the vacinity of the equipment. And it has rained on 
 and off here for the past 3 weeks with no issues otherwise so I am 
 ruling out weather. The radio link never goes down. Ever. So its not 
 rain taking out the 60 Ghz. hop.
 
 OK   Teaching moment...  :-)
 
 For those of you that are not aware most Gigabit radios when they loose 
 their RF link shut down their gig ports on both sides to indicate a hard 
 failure. This obviously expedites things like OSPF and such for rerouting.
 
 Just really weird
 
 -B-
 
 Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
  Hi Bob,
  This shows the port simply going up and down. And noting more.
 
  Is this a Fiber Port ? Or Copper ?
 
  If copper, then the wire needs to be tested, (no loose connector, right kind
  of cable, cat6, and the cable not exceeding 300ft,etc.)
 
  If it is fiber then, check the fiber, clean the fiber, check the SFP/GBIC,
  clear them, reseat them, confirm that you are using right cable (single mode
  or MultiMode) and the SFP/GBIC's Match, and depending on the length of
  cable, make sure your light levels are good, there is no kink in cable etc)
  Don't mix MultiMode cables with Single Mode Cables Connectors..
 
  TIP, fiber cables / SFP/GBIC, you can test each side by doing a LoopBack on
  the Far end... To do a loopback in fiber world, you just have to find a way
  to connect the two ends of the fiber cable together.
 
 
  Additionally, you may want to setup the devices on both side to be Fixed
  1000FDX rather than Auto negotiate.
 
  Regards 
 
 
  Faisal Imtiaz
  SnappyDSL.net
  -Original Message-
  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
  Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
  Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:14 AM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: [WISPA] OT Question
 
  Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network guy.
  But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link.  :-)
 
  What does this tell everybody???   Its from a Cisco 2960 switch.
 
  Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
  GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST:
  %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27
  13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed
  state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on
  Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST:
  %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed
  state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface
  GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST:
  %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up
 
 
  I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything else?
 
 
  Tnx.
 
  -B-
 
  -B-
 
 
  
  
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Re: [WISPA] OT Question....

2009-10-30 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
That almost sounds like someone *physically* unplugging the devices.  Did 
any of you show up during the outage?  (I assume yes but have to ask)

marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net
To: fai...@snappydsl.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 7:55 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question


 To All,

 OK  Its a fiber interface.  The system has been working fine.

 Configuration is this:

 2960 --- fiber --- Gig Radio  60ghz  Gig Radio
 ---fiber 2960

 The interface went down twice in the same day. The radio never went
 down. the fiber tests fine and no one has screwed with it. They are
 short runs. This is a new deployment that has been up for about 6 weeks.
 Fiber is all multimode 62.5 mm. It has not been intermittent. It just
 went down hard twice one day and has been fine since. And when it went
 down it went down at 8:15 am and came back up at 2pm then went back down
 at 2pm and came back up at 4:30 and has been fine since.  Both sites are
 rooftop locations and it was raining the day the event happened so no
 one was working in the vacinity of the equipment. And it has rained on
 and off here for the past 3 weeks with no issues otherwise so I am
 ruling out weather. The radio link never goes down. Ever. So its not
 rain taking out the 60 Ghz. hop.

 OK   Teaching moment...  :-)

 For those of you that are not aware most Gigabit radios when they loose
 their RF link shut down their gig ports on both sides to indicate a hard
 failure. This obviously expedites things like OSPF and such for rerouting.

 Just really weird

 -B-

 Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
 Hi Bob,
 This shows the port simply going up and down. And noting more.

 Is this a Fiber Port ? Or Copper ?

 If copper, then the wire needs to be tested, (no loose connector, right 
 kind
 of cable, cat6, and the cable not exceeding 300ft,etc.)

 If it is fiber then, check the fiber, clean the fiber, check the 
 SFP/GBIC,
 clear them, reseat them, confirm that you are using right cable (single 
 mode
 or MultiMode) and the SFP/GBIC's Match, and depending on the length of
 cable, make sure your light levels are good, there is no kink in cable 
 etc)
 Don't mix MultiMode cables with Single Mode Cables Connectors..

 TIP, fiber cables / SFP/GBIC, you can test each side by doing a LoopBack 
 on
 the Far end... To do a loopback in fiber world, you just have to find a 
 way
 to connect the two ends of the fiber cable together.


 Additionally, you may want to setup the devices on both side to be Fixed
 1000FDX rather than Auto negotiate.

 Regards


 Faisal Imtiaz
 SnappyDSL.net
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
 Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] OT Question

 Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network 
 guy.
 But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link.  :-)

 What does this tell everybody???   Its from a Cisco 2960 switch.

 Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST:
 %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 
 27
 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed
 state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol 
 on
 Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273 
 EST:
 %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, 
 changed
 state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST:
 %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up


 I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything 
 else?


 Tnx.

 -B-

 -B-


 
 
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Re: [WISPA] OT Question....

2009-10-30 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Yeah Yeah Yeah  grin

I've seen the flaky autonegociate thing do this on 10/100 cables.  Just 
another thing to check on.  Easy fix too
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question


 Its fiber.   And I would think if it was an autonegotiate issue it would
 have been intermittent all along.  It has been operating pretty nuch
 error free other than this event.

 But I guess I could try the ferrite beads on the fiber.  Hey..It
 wouldn't hurt. :-P

 Tnx




 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I've had that happen here when I picked up a LOT of RF on an ethernet 
 cable.

 I've also seen it when a device didn't auto negotiate correctly with a 
 Cisco
 switch (they seem to suck).  I now force all of my Cisco switches to a 
 set
 port speed rather than allowing auto negotiation.

 Just for kicks, replaces both ends, maybe the cable too.

 I've also started putting Ferrite beads on a lot of things.  That seems 
 to
 greatly help my ethernet stability.

 I also saw a port do this after a storm, I tried a different port and 
 it's
 fine, so port damage from a power event of some kind.

 Hope that helps,
 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 7:14 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] OT Question



 Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network
 guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link.
 :-)

 What does this tell everybody???   Its from a Cisco 2960 switch.

 Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down
 Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to down
 Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to up
 Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up
 Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down
 Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to down
 Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed state to up


 I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything
 else?

 Tnx.

 -B-

 -B-


 
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 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

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Re: [WISPA] OT Question....

2009-10-30 Thread Bob Moldashel
They are a block away. The rain was light and only occurred for a few 
hours that day.  It rained like hell over the weekend without a hiccup.

We also have 7 other 60 Ghz hops within the same 10 block radius with 
longer paths and they did not hiccup during the same time period.  This 
link is the shortest. And I have radio logs from the one side which 
shows great RSSI and current draw so it was receiving and should have 
been transmitting.

I have to add that I have switch logs from the other side and it shows 
that the side I can monitor the radio logs on during the outage went out 
first and the other side followed about 12 ms later.  When the port 
comes back up it does the same thing.  The radio monitored side then the 
far end.

-B-



Bret Clark wrote:
 How close are these links? We find that at 0.10 in/hr of rain fall will
 cause our 60GHz link to drop and because of the Ethernet follows
 Wireless setting this also drops our Ethernet connection, normally we
 only see this in hard rain. 


 On Fri, 2009-10-30 at 10:55 -0400, Bob Moldashel wrote:

   
 To All,

 OK  Its a fiber interface.  The system has been working fine.

 Configuration is this:

 2960 --- fiber --- Gig Radio  60ghz  Gig Radio  
 ---fiber 2960

 The interface went down twice in the same day. The radio never went 
 down. the fiber tests fine and no one has screwed with it. They are 
 short runs. This is a new deployment that has been up for about 6 weeks. 
 Fiber is all multimode 62.5 mm. It has not been intermittent. It just 
 went down hard twice one day and has been fine since. And when it went 
 down it went down at 8:15 am and came back up at 2pm then went back down 
 at 2pm and came back up at 4:30 and has been fine since.  Both sites are 
 rooftop locations and it was raining the day the event happened so no 
 one was working in the vacinity of the equipment. And it has rained on 
 and off here for the past 3 weeks with no issues otherwise so I am 
 ruling out weather. The radio link never goes down. Ever. So its not 
 rain taking out the 60 Ghz. hop.

 OK   Teaching moment...  :-)

 For those of you that are not aware most Gigabit radios when they loose 
 their RF link shut down their gig ports on both sides to indicate a hard 
 failure. This obviously expedites things like OSPF and such for rerouting.

 Just really weird

 -B-

 Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
 
 Hi Bob,
 This shows the port simply going up and down. And noting more.

 Is this a Fiber Port ? Or Copper ?

 If copper, then the wire needs to be tested, (no loose connector, right kind
 of cable, cat6, and the cable not exceeding 300ft,etc.)

 If it is fiber then, check the fiber, clean the fiber, check the SFP/GBIC,
 clear them, reseat them, confirm that you are using right cable (single mode
 or MultiMode) and the SFP/GBIC's Match, and depending on the length of
 cable, make sure your light levels are good, there is no kink in cable etc)
 Don't mix MultiMode cables with Single Mode Cables Connectors..

 TIP, fiber cables / SFP/GBIC, you can test each side by doing a LoopBack on
 the Far end... To do a loopback in fiber world, you just have to find a way
 to connect the two ends of the fiber cable together.


 Additionally, you may want to setup the devices on both side to be Fixed
 1000FDX rather than Auto negotiate.

 Regards 


 Faisal Imtiaz
 SnappyDSL.net
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
 Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] OT Question

 Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network guy.
 But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link.  :-)

 What does this tell everybody???   Its from a Cisco 2960 switch.

 Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST:
 %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27
 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed
 state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on
 Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST:
 %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed
 state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST:
 %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up


 I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything else?


 Tnx.

 -B-

 -B-


 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 

Re: [WISPA] OT Question....

2009-10-30 Thread Bob Moldashel
No




Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 That almost sounds like someone *physically* unplugging the devices.  Did 
 any of you show up during the outage?  (I assume yes but have to ask)

 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net
 To: fai...@snappydsl.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question


   
 To All,

 OK  Its a fiber interface.  The system has been working fine.

 Configuration is this:

 2960 --- fiber --- Gig Radio  60ghz  Gig Radio
 ---fiber 2960

 The interface went down twice in the same day. The radio never went
 down. the fiber tests fine and no one has screwed with it. They are
 short runs. This is a new deployment that has been up for about 6 weeks.
 Fiber is all multimode 62.5 mm. It has not been intermittent. It just
 went down hard twice one day and has been fine since. And when it went
 down it went down at 8:15 am and came back up at 2pm then went back down
 at 2pm and came back up at 4:30 and has been fine since.  Both sites are
 rooftop locations and it was raining the day the event happened so no
 one was working in the vacinity of the equipment. And it has rained on
 and off here for the past 3 weeks with no issues otherwise so I am
 ruling out weather. The radio link never goes down. Ever. So its not
 rain taking out the 60 Ghz. hop.

 OK   Teaching moment...  :-)

 For those of you that are not aware most Gigabit radios when they loose
 their RF link shut down their gig ports on both sides to indicate a hard
 failure. This obviously expedites things like OSPF and such for rerouting.

 Just really weird

 -B-

 Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
 
 Hi Bob,
 This shows the port simply going up and down. And noting more.

 Is this a Fiber Port ? Or Copper ?

 If copper, then the wire needs to be tested, (no loose connector, right 
 kind
 of cable, cat6, and the cable not exceeding 300ft,etc.)

 If it is fiber then, check the fiber, clean the fiber, check the 
 SFP/GBIC,
 clear them, reseat them, confirm that you are using right cable (single 
 mode
 or MultiMode) and the SFP/GBIC's Match, and depending on the length of
 cable, make sure your light levels are good, there is no kink in cable 
 etc)
 Don't mix MultiMode cables with Single Mode Cables Connectors..

 TIP, fiber cables / SFP/GBIC, you can test each side by doing a LoopBack 
 on
 the Far end... To do a loopback in fiber world, you just have to find a 
 way
 to connect the two ends of the fiber cable together.


 Additionally, you may want to setup the devices on both side to be Fixed
 1000FDX rather than Auto negotiate.

 Regards


 Faisal Imtiaz
 SnappyDSL.net
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
 Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] OT Question

 Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network 
 guy.
 But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link.  :-)

 What does this tell everybody???   Its from a Cisco 2960 switch.

 Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST:
 %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 
 27
 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed
 state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol 
 on
 Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273 
 EST:
 %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, 
 changed
 state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST:
 %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up


 I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything 
 else?


 Tnx.

 -B-

 -B-


 
 
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 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

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Re: [WISPA] OT Question....

2009-10-30 Thread Eric Rogers
One thing, I don't know what kind of RF backhauls you are using, but the
Motorola PTP radios have a feature that disconnect the Ethernet briefly
to reset any Spanning Tree functions on the switch.  Check the radios
and see if they are dropping briefly, causing the Ethernet disconnects.

Eric

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Bret Clark
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:54 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question

How close are these links? We find that at 0.10 in/hr of rain fall will
cause our 60GHz link to drop and because of the Ethernet follows
Wireless setting this also drops our Ethernet connection, normally we
only see this in hard rain. 


On Fri, 2009-10-30 at 10:55 -0400, Bob Moldashel wrote:

 To All,
 
 OK  Its a fiber interface.  The system has been working fine.
 
 Configuration is this:
 
 2960 --- fiber --- Gig Radio  60ghz  Gig Radio  
 ---fiber 2960
 
 The interface went down twice in the same day. The radio never went 
 down. the fiber tests fine and no one has screwed with it. They are 
 short runs. This is a new deployment that has been up for about 6
weeks. 
 Fiber is all multimode 62.5 mm. It has not been intermittent. It just 
 went down hard twice one day and has been fine since. And when it went

 down it went down at 8:15 am and came back up at 2pm then went back
down 
 at 2pm and came back up at 4:30 and has been fine since.  Both sites
are 
 rooftop locations and it was raining the day the event happened so no 
 one was working in the vacinity of the equipment. And it has rained on

 and off here for the past 3 weeks with no issues otherwise so I am 
 ruling out weather. The radio link never goes down. Ever. So its not 
 rain taking out the 60 Ghz. hop.
 
 OK   Teaching moment...  :-)
 
 For those of you that are not aware most Gigabit radios when they
loose 
 their RF link shut down their gig ports on both sides to indicate a
hard 
 failure. This obviously expedites things like OSPF and such for
rerouting.
 
 Just really weird
 
 -B-
 
 Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
  Hi Bob,
  This shows the port simply going up and down. And noting more.
 
  Is this a Fiber Port ? Or Copper ?
 
  If copper, then the wire needs to be tested, (no loose connector,
right kind
  of cable, cat6, and the cable not exceeding 300ft,etc.)
 
  If it is fiber then, check the fiber, clean the fiber, check the
SFP/GBIC,
  clear them, reseat them, confirm that you are using right cable
(single mode
  or MultiMode) and the SFP/GBIC's Match, and depending on the length
of
  cable, make sure your light levels are good, there is no kink in
cable etc)
  Don't mix MultiMode cables with Single Mode Cables Connectors..
 
  TIP, fiber cables / SFP/GBIC, you can test each side by doing a
LoopBack on
  the Far end... To do a loopback in fiber world, you just have to
find a way
  to connect the two ends of the fiber cable together.
 
 
  Additionally, you may want to setup the devices on both side to be
Fixed
  1000FDX rather than Auto negotiate.
 
  Regards 
 
 
  Faisal Imtiaz
  SnappyDSL.net
  -Original Message-
  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
  Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
  Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:14 AM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: [WISPA] OT Question
 
  Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the
network guy.
  But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link.
:-)
 
  What does this tell everybody???   Its from a Cisco 2960 switch.
 
  Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on
Interface
  GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST:
  %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down
Oct 27
  13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
changed
  state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line
protocol on
  Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27
14:15:10.273 EST:
  %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
changed
  state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface
  GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST:
  %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up
 
 
  I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you
anything else?
 
 
  Tnx.
 
  -B-
 
  -B-
 
 
 


  
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Re: [WISPA] OT Question....

2009-10-30 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Perhaps this is a case of vandalism?  Especially since it only happened 
during the time when people would be in the building.

Or maybe the cleaning lady bumped something?
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question


 No




 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 That almost sounds like someone *physically* unplugging the devices.  Did
 any of you show up during the outage?  (I assume yes but have to ask)

 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net
 To: fai...@snappydsl.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question



 To All,

 OK  Its a fiber interface.  The system has been working fine.

 Configuration is this:

 2960 --- fiber --- Gig Radio  60ghz  Gig Radio
 ---fiber 2960

 The interface went down twice in the same day. The radio never went
 down. the fiber tests fine and no one has screwed with it. They are
 short runs. This is a new deployment that has been up for about 6 weeks.
 Fiber is all multimode 62.5 mm. It has not been intermittent. It just
 went down hard twice one day and has been fine since. And when it went
 down it went down at 8:15 am and came back up at 2pm then went back down
 at 2pm and came back up at 4:30 and has been fine since.  Both sites are
 rooftop locations and it was raining the day the event happened so no
 one was working in the vacinity of the equipment. And it has rained on
 and off here for the past 3 weeks with no issues otherwise so I am
 ruling out weather. The radio link never goes down. Ever. So its not
 rain taking out the 60 Ghz. hop.

 OK   Teaching moment...  :-)

 For those of you that are not aware most Gigabit radios when they loose
 their RF link shut down their gig ports on both sides to indicate a hard
 failure. This obviously expedites things like OSPF and such for 
 rerouting.

 Just really weird

 -B-

 Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

 Hi Bob,
 This shows the port simply going up and down. And noting more.

 Is this a Fiber Port ? Or Copper ?

 If copper, then the wire needs to be tested, (no loose connector, right
 kind
 of cable, cat6, and the cable not exceeding 300ft,etc.)

 If it is fiber then, check the fiber, clean the fiber, check the
 SFP/GBIC,
 clear them, reseat them, confirm that you are using right cable (single
 mode
 or MultiMode) and the SFP/GBIC's Match, and depending on the length of
 cable, make sure your light levels are good, there is no kink in cable
 etc)
 Don't mix MultiMode cables with Single Mode Cables Connectors..

 TIP, fiber cables / SFP/GBIC, you can test each side by doing a 
 LoopBack
 on
 the Far end... To do a loopback in fiber world, you just have to find a
 way
 to connect the two ends of the fiber cable together.


 Additionally, you may want to setup the devices on both side to be 
 Fixed
 1000FDX rather than Auto negotiate.

 Regards


 Faisal Imtiaz
 SnappyDSL.net
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
 Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] OT Question

 Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network
 guy.
 But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link.  :-)

 What does this tell everybody???   Its from a Cisco 2960 switch.

 Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on 
 Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST:
 %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down 
 Oct
 27
 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, 
 changed
 state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol
 on
 Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273
 EST:
 %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed
 state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST:
 %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up


 I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything
 else?


 Tnx.

 -B-

 -B-


 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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 WISPA Wireless

Re: [WISPA] OT Question....

2009-10-30 Thread Bob Moldashel
Its on a commercial rooftop on both sides.  Ladies from the cleaning 
union don't go up there.  The cabinets are locked. The rooftops are 
alarmed and on CCTV on both sides. And it was a crappy day so nobody was 
out there sunning themselves. And it hasn't happened since.

:-)

I figured it out with further prodding of the network people.  Seems the 
port is throwing a crapload of CRC errors but only intermittently.

Sooo  we will go back and look at the fiber, swap out patch cables, 
swap out the GBIC and last but not least swap out the radio.

Thanks for  everyones input.

-B-




Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 Perhaps this is a case of vandalism?  Especially since it only happened 
 during the time when people would be in the building.

 Or maybe the cleaning lady bumped something?
 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 8:18 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question


   
 No




 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 
 That almost sounds like someone *physically* unplugging the devices.  Did
 any of you show up during the outage?  (I assume yes but have to ask)

 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net
 To: fai...@snappydsl.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question



   
 To All,

 OK  Its a fiber interface.  The system has been working fine.

 Configuration is this:

 2960 --- fiber --- Gig Radio  60ghz  Gig Radio
 ---fiber 2960

 The interface went down twice in the same day. The radio never went
 down. the fiber tests fine and no one has screwed with it. They are
 short runs. This is a new deployment that has been up for about 6 weeks.
 Fiber is all multimode 62.5 mm. It has not been intermittent. It just
 went down hard twice one day and has been fine since. And when it went
 down it went down at 8:15 am and came back up at 2pm then went back down
 at 2pm and came back up at 4:30 and has been fine since.  Both sites are
 rooftop locations and it was raining the day the event happened so no
 one was working in the vacinity of the equipment. And it has rained on
 and off here for the past 3 weeks with no issues otherwise so I am
 ruling out weather. The radio link never goes down. Ever. So its not
 rain taking out the 60 Ghz. hop.

 OK   Teaching moment...  :-)

 For those of you that are not aware most Gigabit radios when they loose
 their RF link shut down their gig ports on both sides to indicate a hard
 failure. This obviously expedites things like OSPF and such for 
 rerouting.

 Just really weird

 -B-

 Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

 
 Hi Bob,
 This shows the port simply going up and down. And noting more.

 Is this a Fiber Port ? Or Copper ?

 If copper, then the wire needs to be tested, (no loose connector, right
 kind
 of cable, cat6, and the cable not exceeding 300ft,etc.)

 If it is fiber then, check the fiber, clean the fiber, check the
 SFP/GBIC,
 clear them, reseat them, confirm that you are using right cable (single
 mode
 or MultiMode) and the SFP/GBIC's Match, and depending on the length of
 cable, make sure your light levels are good, there is no kink in cable
 etc)
 Don't mix MultiMode cables with Single Mode Cables Connectors..

 TIP, fiber cables / SFP/GBIC, you can test each side by doing a 
 LoopBack
 on
 the Far end... To do a loopback in fiber world, you just have to find a
 way
 to connect the two ends of the fiber cable together.


 Additionally, you may want to setup the devices on both side to be 
 Fixed
 1000FDX rather than Auto negotiate.

 Regards


 Faisal Imtiaz
 SnappyDSL.net
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
 Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] OT Question

 Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network
 guy.
 But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link.  :-)

 What does this tell everybody???   Its from a Cisco 2960 switch.

 Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on 
 Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST:
 %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down 
 Oct
 27
 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, 
 changed
 state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol
 on
 Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273
 EST:
 %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21,
 changed
 state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST:
 %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up


 I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything
 else

Re: [WISPA] OT Question....

2009-10-30 Thread Brad Belton
I still gotta side with Marlon on this one...cleaning ladies WILL cause CRC
errors.  This is networking 101 Bob, I'm disappointed in you...sigh

Best,


Brad

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 11:43 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question

Its on a commercial rooftop on both sides.  Ladies from the cleaning 
union don't go up there.  The cabinets are locked. The rooftops are 
alarmed and on CCTV on both sides. And it was a crappy day so nobody was 
out there sunning themselves. And it hasn't happened since.

:-)

I figured it out with further prodding of the network people.  Seems the 
port is throwing a crapload of CRC errors but only intermittently.

Sooo  we will go back and look at the fiber, swap out patch cables, 
swap out the GBIC and last but not least swap out the radio.

Thanks for  everyones input.

-B-




Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 Perhaps this is a case of vandalism?  Especially since it only happened 
 during the time when people would be in the building.

 Or maybe the cleaning lady bumped something?
 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 8:18 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question


   
 No




 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 
 That almost sounds like someone *physically* unplugging the devices.
Did
 any of you show up during the outage?  (I assume yes but have to
ask)

 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net
 To: fai...@snappydsl.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question



   
 To All,

 OK  Its a fiber interface.  The system has been working fine.

 Configuration is this:

 2960 --- fiber --- Gig Radio  60ghz  Gig Radio
 ---fiber 2960

 The interface went down twice in the same day. The radio never went
 down. the fiber tests fine and no one has screwed with it. They are
 short runs. This is a new deployment that has been up for about 6
weeks.
 Fiber is all multimode 62.5 mm. It has not been intermittent. It just
 went down hard twice one day and has been fine since. And when it went
 down it went down at 8:15 am and came back up at 2pm then went back
down
 at 2pm and came back up at 4:30 and has been fine since.  Both sites
are
 rooftop locations and it was raining the day the event happened so no
 one was working in the vacinity of the equipment. And it has rained on
 and off here for the past 3 weeks with no issues otherwise so I am
 ruling out weather. The radio link never goes down. Ever. So its not
 rain taking out the 60 Ghz. hop.

 OK   Teaching moment...  :-)

 For those of you that are not aware most Gigabit radios when they loose
 their RF link shut down their gig ports on both sides to indicate a
hard
 failure. This obviously expedites things like OSPF and such for 
 rerouting.

 Just really weird

 -B-

 Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

 
 Hi Bob,
 This shows the port simply going up and down. And noting more.

 Is this a Fiber Port ? Or Copper ?

 If copper, then the wire needs to be tested, (no loose connector,
right
 kind
 of cable, cat6, and the cable not exceeding 300ft,etc.)

 If it is fiber then, check the fiber, clean the fiber, check the
 SFP/GBIC,
 clear them, reseat them, confirm that you are using right cable
(single
 mode
 or MultiMode) and the SFP/GBIC's Match, and depending on the length of
 cable, make sure your light levels are good, there is no kink in cable
 etc)
 Don't mix MultiMode cables with Single Mode Cables Connectors..

 TIP, fiber cables / SFP/GBIC, you can test each side by doing a 
 LoopBack
 on
 the Far end... To do a loopback in fiber world, you just have to find
a
 way
 to connect the two ends of the fiber cable together.


 Additionally, you may want to setup the devices on both side to be 
 Fixed
 1000FDX rather than Auto negotiate.

 Regards


 Faisal Imtiaz
 SnappyDSL.net
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
 Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
 Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] OT Question

 Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the
network
 guy.
 But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link.
:-)

 What does this tell everybody???   Its from a Cisco 2960 switch.

 Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on 
 Interface
 GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST:
 %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down 
 Oct
 27
 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, 
 changed
 state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line
protocol
 on
 Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15

Re: [WISPA] OT Question....

2009-10-30 Thread Bob Moldashel
Been there   Done that.


Had a power supply under a desk running a system once.  We thought the 
customer was shutting it off every couple of weekends.  Turned out to be 
cleaning people pushing the vacuum under the desk would hit the on/off 
switch. Turned the power supply to the side..No more problems.

:-)

-B-


Brad Belton wrote:
 I still gotta side with Marlon on this one...cleaning ladies WILL cause CRC
 errors.  This is networking 101 Bob, I'm disappointed in you...sigh

 Best,


 Brad

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
 Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 11:43 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question

 Its on a commercial rooftop on both sides.  Ladies from the cleaning 
 union don't go up there.  The cabinets are locked. The rooftops are 
 alarmed and on CCTV on both sides. And it was a crappy day so nobody was 
 out there sunning themselves. And it hasn't happened since.

 :-)

 I figured it out with further prodding of the network people.  Seems the 
 port is throwing a crapload of CRC errors but only intermittently.

 Sooo  we will go back and look at the fiber, swap out patch cables, 
 swap out the GBIC and last but not least swap out the radio.

 Thanks for  everyones input.

 -B-




 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
   
 Perhaps this is a case of vandalism?  Especially since it only happened 
 during the time when people would be in the building.

 Or maybe the cleaning lady bumped something?
 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 8:18 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question


   
 
 No




 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 
   
 That almost sounds like someone *physically* unplugging the devices.
 
 Did
   
 any of you show up during the outage?  (I assume yes but have to
 
 ask)
   
 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net
 To: fai...@snappydsl.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question



   
 
 To All,

 OK  Its a fiber interface.  The system has been working fine.

 Configuration is this:

 2960 --- fiber --- Gig Radio  60ghz  Gig Radio
 ---fiber 2960

 The interface went down twice in the same day. The radio never went
 down. the fiber tests fine and no one has screwed with it. They are
 short runs. This is a new deployment that has been up for about 6
   
 weeks.
   
 Fiber is all multimode 62.5 mm. It has not been intermittent. It just
 went down hard twice one day and has been fine since. And when it went
 down it went down at 8:15 am and came back up at 2pm then went back
   
 down
   
 at 2pm and came back up at 4:30 and has been fine since.  Both sites
   
 are
   
 rooftop locations and it was raining the day the event happened so no
 one was working in the vacinity of the equipment. And it has rained on
 and off here for the past 3 weeks with no issues otherwise so I am
 ruling out weather. The radio link never goes down. Ever. So its not
 rain taking out the 60 Ghz. hop.

 OK   Teaching moment...  :-)

 For those of you that are not aware most Gigabit radios when they loose
 their RF link shut down their gig ports on both sides to indicate a
   
 hard
   
 failure. This obviously expedites things like OSPF and such for 
 rerouting.

 Just really weird

 -B-

 Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

 
   
 Hi Bob,
 This shows the port simply going up and down. And noting more.

 Is this a Fiber Port ? Or Copper ?

 If copper, then the wire needs to be tested, (no loose connector,
 
 right
   
 kind
 of cable, cat6, and the cable not exceeding 300ft,etc.)

 If it is fiber then, check the fiber, clean the fiber, check the
 SFP/GBIC,
 clear them, reseat them, confirm that you are using right cable
 
 (single
   
 mode
 or MultiMode) and the SFP/GBIC's Match, and depending on the length of
 cable, make sure your light levels are good, there is no kink in cable
 etc)
 Don't mix MultiMode cables with Single Mode Cables Connectors..

 TIP, fiber cables / SFP/GBIC, you can test each side by doing a 
 LoopBack
 on
 the Far end... To do a loopback in fiber world, you just have to find
 
 a
   
 way
 to connect the two ends of the fiber cable together.


 Additionally, you may want to setup the devices on both side to be 
 Fixed
 1000FDX rather than Auto negotiate.

 Regards


 Faisal Imtiaz
 SnappyDSL.net
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 
 On
   
 Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
 Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] OT Question

 Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy

Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-18 Thread John Thomas

And if you need Windows applications, then this may work for you;

http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxoffice/

John

Steve wrote:

Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer.  The install is easier than
window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware
removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you will
find that in the end you  are ahead of the game.
Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced
ubuntu/kubuntu.
I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the switch
to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back.
Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$ on every
computer we buy.
:-)
Steve

--


Travis Johnson wrote:
  

Jeff,

A family computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your
family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the
headaches of a Linux box for family use.

Travis
Microserv

Jeff Broadwick wrote:


Hi Butch,

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family.  What Linux
desk-top would be best at this point?

Jeff 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long 
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, 
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning 
curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.

Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards.



I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall Linux and get
started with the learning curve.

--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html




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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-12 Thread Marlon Schafer

LOL  yeah, I hear ya.

Here, when this happens it always showed the mac addy of the customer's 
radio.  Not helpful.


I'll figure it out eventually.  Just very frustrating that XP handled this 
just fine but Vista, which is supposed to be s much better, can't deal 
with it.

marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Brian Rohrbacher

To: WISPA General List
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question




Scott Lambert wrote:
On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 08:21:37AM -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 
wrote:


Here's an example from yesterday.  My new laptop is Vista (the old one has
a concrete floor induced broken screen).  There is a device somewhere on my
network that is answering arp requests incorrectly.  No matter what IP addy
I put on the Vista machine (or osx for that matter) it shows an IP address
conflict and resorts to a 169.x.x.x IP addy.

Any OS other than osx or Vista (both MS products these days) works just
fine.  So I have a brand new laptop that won't work here and I'm gonna have
to waste who knows how much time tracing down a device, and spend money
replacing it, that is otherwise working just fine.


As much as I dislike Windows, you can't really blame that issue on
Windows.  You have to blame that one on the bogus hardware which is
breaking arp...

I had that issue one time, but I was lucky enough to have a sub with a MAC 
to help me fix it.  Everytime he put his mac online it gave an ip conflict 
no matter what IP was used.  The good thing about the mac was it gave the 
mac addy of the device that was the conflict.  When I plugged my IBM laptop 
in everything was fine, no ip conflict.  Anyway, I looked up the mac addy 
and went to the customer.  Even though it showed the mac addy of the 
antenna, it was a $5 gigafast switch that was the problem.  I dropped it in 
the trash, installed a 3com and was good to go.

So, go borrow a MAC and it will help you fix this.

Brian


like Quicken these days.  I'd pay MORE for a program that just balanced my
checkbook and gave me some nice reports.  I'm sick and tired of everyone
trying to force services and other crap down my throat.


http://moneydance.com/








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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-11 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

Cause it doesn't work right.

Here's an example from yesterday.  My new laptop is Vista (the old one has a 
concrete floor induced broken screen).  There is a device somewhere on my 
network that is answering arp requests incorrectly.  No matter what IP addy 
I put on the Vista machine (or osx for that matter) it shows an IP address 
conflict and resorts to a 169.x.x.x IP addy.


Any OS other than osx or Vista (both MS products these days) works just 
fine.  So I have a brand new laptop that won't work here and I'm gonna have 
to waste who knows how much time tracing down a device, and spend money 
replacing it, that is otherwise working just fine.


It takes 25 steps vs. 2 to change ip addresses.

It's SLLLWWW.

It's invasive.  Why does it have to detect a connection to the outside 
world  Who does it contact?  What does it send/rec.?


It's bloated.

If I could get a version of Winblows that just worked as an OS and didn't 
include media players, DVD burners etc. I'd take it in a heart beat.  Just 
like Quicken these days.  I'd pay MORE for a program that just balanced my 
checkbook and gave me some nice reports.  I'm sick and tired of everyone 
trying to force services and other crap down my throat.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question




In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

dreaded  MS Vista


Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long  time,
starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without 
problems
[laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning curve with so  many 
changes
from the earlier versions.  Vista is here to stay and you  should be 
learning

it-not going backwards.


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995




**Check out AOL's list of 2007's 
hottest

products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301)



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-11 Thread Scott Lambert
On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 08:21:37AM -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 
wrote:
 Here's an example from yesterday.  My new laptop is Vista (the old one has 
 a concrete floor induced broken screen).  There is a device somewhere on my 
 network that is answering arp requests incorrectly.  No matter what IP addy 
 I put on the Vista machine (or osx for that matter) it shows an IP address 
 conflict and resorts to a 169.x.x.x IP addy.
 
 Any OS other than osx or Vista (both MS products these days) works just 
 fine.  So I have a brand new laptop that won't work here and I'm gonna have 
 to waste who knows how much time tracing down a device, and spend money 
 replacing it, that is otherwise working just fine.

As much as I dislike Windows, you can't really blame that issue on
Windows.  You have to blame that one on the bogus hardware which is
breaking arp...

 like Quicken these days.  I'd pay MORE for a program that just balanced my 
 checkbook and gave me some nice reports.  I'm sick and tired of everyone 
 trying to force services and other crap down my throat.

http://moneydance.com/

-- 
Scott LambertKC5MLE   Unix SysAdmin
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-11 Thread Brian Rohrbacher






Scott Lambert wrote:

  On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 08:21:37AM -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
  
  
Here's an example from yesterday.  My new laptop is Vista (the old one has 
a concrete floor induced broken screen).  There is a device somewhere on my 
network that is answering arp requests incorrectly.  No matter what IP addy 
I put on the Vista machine (or osx for that matter) it shows an IP address 
conflict and resorts to a 169.x.x.x IP addy.

Any OS other than osx or Vista (both MS products these days) works just 
fine.  So I have a brand new laptop that won't work here and I'm gonna have 
to waste who knows how much time tracing down a device, and spend money 
replacing it, that is otherwise working just fine.

  
  
As much as I dislike Windows, you can't really blame that issue on
Windows.  You have to blame that one on the bogus hardware which is
breaking arp...
  

I had that issue one time, but I was lucky enough to have a sub with a
MAC to help me fix it. Everytime he put his mac online it gave an ip
conflict no matter what IP was used. The good thing about the mac was
it gave the mac addy of the device that was the conflict. When I
plugged my IBM laptop in everything was fine, no ip conflict. Anyway,
I looked up the mac addy and went to the customer. Even though it
showed the mac addy of the antenna, it was a $5 gigafast switch that
was the problem. I dropped it in the trash, installed a 3com and was
good to go. 
So, go borrow a MAC and it will help you fix this.

Brian

  
  
  
like Quicken these days.  I'd pay MORE for a program that just balanced my 
checkbook and gave me some nice reports.  I'm sick and tired of everyone 
trying to force services and other crap down my throat.

  
  
http://moneydance.com/

  






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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-11 Thread Scott Reed
Why should Windows refuse to accept an IP just because there is a 
conflict on the network?  As long as that machine has a unique address, 
why should it care about the duplicate?  Makes it hard to troubleshoot 
the network when your troubleshooting machine won't get an address.


Scott Lambert wrote:

On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 08:21:37AM -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 
wrote:
  
Here's an example from yesterday.  My new laptop is Vista (the old one has 
a concrete floor induced broken screen).  There is a device somewhere on my 
network that is answering arp requests incorrectly.  No matter what IP addy 
I put on the Vista machine (or osx for that matter) it shows an IP address 
conflict and resorts to a 169.x.x.x IP addy.


Any OS other than osx or Vista (both MS products these days) works just 
fine.  So I have a brand new laptop that won't work here and I'm gonna have 
to waste who knows how much time tracing down a device, and spend money 
replacing it, that is otherwise working just fine.



As much as I dislike Windows, you can't really blame that issue on
Windows.  You have to blame that one on the bogus hardware which is
breaking arp...

  
like Quicken these days.  I'd pay MORE for a program that just balanced my 
checkbook and gave me some nice reports.  I'm sick and tired of everyone 
trying to force services and other crap down my throat.



http://moneydance.com/

  


--
Scott Reed
Owner
NewWays
Wireless Networking
Network Design, Installation and Administration
www.nwwnet.net
(765) 855-1060




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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-11 Thread George Rogato

I've seen this as well in the past.

Best to my recollection is has something to do with the consumer gateway 
routers. Or it had something to do with someones pc. I can't remember 
the actual situation, but I seen a bunch of times.


One more reason why I like using the router built into the cpe and turn 
those cheap gateway routers into bridges.




Scott Reed wrote:
Why should Windows refuse to accept an IP just because there is a 
conflict on the network?  As long as that machine has a unique address, 
why should it care about the duplicate?  Makes it hard to troubleshoot 
the network when your troubleshooting machine won't get an address.


Scott Lambert wrote:
On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 08:21:37AM -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 
982-2181 wrote:
 
Here's an example from yesterday.  My new laptop is Vista (the old 
one has a concrete floor induced broken screen).  There is a device 
somewhere on my network that is answering arp requests incorrectly.  
No matter what IP addy I put on the Vista machine (or osx for that 
matter) it shows an IP address conflict and resorts to a 169.x.x.x IP 
addy.


Any OS other than osx or Vista (both MS products these days) works 
just fine.  So I have a brand new laptop that won't work here and I'm 
gonna have to waste who knows how much time tracing down a device, 
and spend money replacing it, that is otherwise working just fine.



As much as I dislike Windows, you can't really blame that issue on
Windows.  You have to blame that one on the bogus hardware which is
breaking arp...

 
like Quicken these days.  I'd pay MORE for a program that just 
balanced my checkbook and gave me some nice reports.  I'm sick and 
tired of everyone trying to force services and other crap down my 
throat.



http://moneydance.com/

  







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RE: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-11 Thread Mac Dearman
My Windows XP Pro gives the MAC address of a duplicate ip address. It does
not just pop up in a bubble on the desk top - - you have to look in the
event viewer, but the info is there.

 

Mac

 

 

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 11:28 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

 



Scott Lambert wrote: 

On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 08:21:37AM -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
wrote:
  

Here's an example from yesterday.  My new laptop is Vista (the old one has 
a concrete floor induced broken screen).  There is a device somewhere on my 
network that is answering arp requests incorrectly.  No matter what IP addy 
I put on the Vista machine (or osx for that matter) it shows an IP address 
conflict and resorts to a 169.x.x.x IP addy.
 
Any OS other than osx or Vista (both MS products these days) works just 
fine.  So I have a brand new laptop that won't work here and I'm gonna have 
to waste who knows how much time tracing down a device, and spend money 
replacing it, that is otherwise working just fine.


 
As much as I dislike Windows, you can't really blame that issue on
Windows.  You have to blame that one on the bogus hardware which is
breaking arp...
  

I had that issue one time, but I was lucky enough to have a sub with a MAC
to help me fix it.  Everytime he put his mac online it gave an ip conflict
no matter what IP was used.  The good thing about the mac was it gave the
mac addy of the device that was the conflict.  When I plugged my IBM laptop
in everything was fine, no ip conflict.  Anyway, I looked up the mac addy
and went to the customer.  Even though it showed the mac addy of the
antenna, it was a $5 gigafast switch that was the problem.  I dropped it in
the trash, installed a 3com and was good to go.  
So, go borrow a MAC and it will help you fix this.

Brian



 
  

like Quicken these days.  I'd pay MORE for a program that just balanced my 
checkbook and gave me some nice reports.  I'm sick and tired of everyone 
trying to force services and other crap down my throat.


 
http://moneydance.com/
 
  



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-11 Thread Brian Rohrbacher

good to know

Mac Dearman wrote:

My Windows XP Pro gives the MAC address of a duplicate ip address. It does
not just pop up in a bubble on the desk top - - you have to look in the
event viewer, but the info is there.

 


Mac

 

 

 


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 11:28 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

 




Scott Lambert wrote: 


On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 08:21:37AM -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
wrote:
  

Here's an example from yesterday.  My new laptop is Vista (the old one has 
a concrete floor induced broken screen).  There is a device somewhere on my 
network that is answering arp requests incorrectly.  No matter what IP addy 
I put on the Vista machine (or osx for that matter) it shows an IP address 
conflict and resorts to a 169.x.x.x IP addy.
 
Any OS other than osx or Vista (both MS products these days) works just 
fine.  So I have a brand new laptop that won't work here and I'm gonna have 
to waste who knows how much time tracing down a device, and spend money 
replacing it, that is otherwise working just fine.


 
As much as I dislike Windows, you can't really blame that issue on

Windows.  You have to blame that one on the bogus hardware which is
breaking arp...
  


I had that issue one time, but I was lucky enough to have a sub with a MAC
to help me fix it.  Everytime he put his mac online it gave an ip conflict
no matter what IP was used.  The good thing about the mac was it gave the
mac addy of the device that was the conflict.  When I plugged my IBM laptop
in everything was fine, no ip conflict.  Anyway, I looked up the mac addy
and went to the customer.  Even though it showed the mac addy of the
antenna, it was a $5 gigafast switch that was the problem.  I dropped it in
the trash, installed a 3com and was good to go.  
So, go borrow a MAC and it will help you fix this.


Brian



 
  

like Quicken these days.  I'd pay MORE for a program that just balanced my 
checkbook and gave me some nice reports.  I'm sick and tired of everyone 
trying to force services and other crap down my throat.


 
http://moneydance.com/
 
  




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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread Mike Hammett

Games.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Jonathan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:38 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question



We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office.

We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but
definitely slower, that's not meaningful.

The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with 
less

than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK.  (Why it becomes
unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments).

We haven't had driver problems.

We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista.  Not many, but perhaps
50% more.

The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was, 
in
XP, in one place into several far flung places.  It may make more sense 
but

drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy.

The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into
fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving
the support guys nuts.  Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now
calling support.

The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks 
with

a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work.  That just makes
people mad at Microsoft.

Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order 
XP/PRO

(at a small cost).

It doesn't appear that VISTA was a good business/technical decision on
Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new 
PCs.


It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb.

It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been more
and more popular and we accept that for our system.  They have caused no
problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and 
aggressively

help each other the way early PC users used to do.  There are only a tiny
fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on
Macintosh as the same or better.  That argument doesn't fly anymore.

. . . J o n a t h a n



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

Hi,

Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine
running XP. Why would I upgrade to an OS that is slower?

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:

Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO HORRIBLE...
but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears.
I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista
itself.  Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update
software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault...  that's the
fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question




In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

dreaded  MS Vista


Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version,
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning
curve with so many changes from the earlier versions.  Vista is here
to stay and you  should be learning it-not going backwards.


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995




**Check out AOL's list of 2007's
hottest products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000300
0001)



-
---

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---


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RE: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread Jeff Broadwick
Is it still possible to buy a new computer and use XP? 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:23 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

Games.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message -
From: Jonathan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:38 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question


 We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office.

 We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but
 definitely slower, that's not meaningful.

 The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with 
 less
 than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK.  (Why it becomes
 unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments).

 We haven't had driver problems.

 We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista.  Not many, but perhaps
 50% more.

 The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was, 
 in
 XP, in one place into several far flung places.  It may make more sense 
 but
 drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy.

 The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into
 fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving
 the support guys nuts.  Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now
 calling support.

 The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks 
 with
 a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work.  That just makes
 people mad at Microsoft.

 Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order 
 XP/PRO
 (at a small cost).

 It doesn't appear that VISTA was a good business/technical decision on
 Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new 
 PCs.

 It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb.

 It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been more
 and more popular and we accept that for our system.  They have caused no
 problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and 
 aggressively
 help each other the way early PC users used to do.  There are only a tiny
 fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on
 Macintosh as the same or better.  That argument doesn't fly anymore.

 . . . J o n a t h a n



 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Travis Johnson
 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

 Hi,

 Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine
 running XP. Why would I upgrade to an OS that is slower?

 Travis
 Microserv

 Mike Hammett wrote:
 Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO HORRIBLE...
 but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears.
 I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista
 itself.  Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update
 software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault...  that's the
 fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question



 In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 dreaded  MS Vista


 Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long
 time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version,
 without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning
 curve with so many changes from the earlier versions.  Vista is here
 to stay and you  should be learning it-not going backwards.


 Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
 Xanadu Group Inc.
 179 Statesville Quarry Road
 Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
 973-702-3899
 fax  775-667-1995




 **Check out AOL's list of 2007's
 hottest products.
 (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000300
 0001)



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread Bob Moldashel
Purchased an HP laptop at BestBuy yesterday for $599 that was $899  
just 60 days ago.


Now is the time for deals,  Also purchased a $399 Compaq for one of  
my field guys. Simple and disposable as far as I am concerned.


-B-
On Dec 9, 2007, at 11:41 PM, D. Ryan Spott wrote:


$1000.00 You need to get out more! :)

Easy.

ryan


On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:32 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

Now we aren't comparing Apples to Oranges (literally). A new HP  
laptop that is decent is $600 at Best Buy. The same performance  
out of a Mac laptop is $1,400.


Travis
Microserv

D. Ryan Spott wrote:

Mac OS.

ryan


On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:04 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

My two daughters both have laptops. They both play Sims2 with  
all the expansion packs. Will that run on Ubuntu? What about  
Roller Coaster Tycoon? What about iTunes for their iPods?


Trust me, I would _love_ to be done with Microsoft and  
Windows... but there is no way to do it at this point (at least  
that I can see).


Travis
Microserv

Steve wrote:


Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer.  The install is  
easier than

window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware
removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and  
you will

find that in the end you  are ahead of the game.
Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced
ubuntu/kubuntu.
I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make  
the switch

to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back.
Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$  
on every

computer we buy.
:-)
Steve

--


Travis Johnson wrote:


Jeff,

A family computer should still be Windows. Too many programs  
your

family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the
headaches of a Linux box for family use.

Travis
Microserv

Jeff Broadwick wrote:


Hi Butch,

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my  
family.  What Linux

desk-top would be best at this point?

Jeff

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for  
a long
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate  
Version,
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a  
learning

curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.
Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going  
backwards.



I agree with the learning and not going  
backwardsInstall Linux and get

started with the learning curve.

--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik  
Certified Consultant

http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html


 



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread WWS2
FYI-Vista SP1 Beta is available now, I have loaded it on this laptop and  
another PC.



**Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest 
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301)



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread Anthony Will
Dell and HP still sell XP.  They are big enough to make Microsoft bend 
on the Vista release issues.  We only have this month left though as far 
as I can tell.  My bet is if SP1 doesn't resolve most of the issues with 
Vista that Dell and the like will continue to pressure MS for a XP 
solution.  This being mostly for business workstations. 


http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,130657-c,xp/article.html
http://www.osnews.com/story.php/17733/Dell-Resumes-Windows-XP-Sales-MS-To-Sell-Software-for-Cheap/

Anthony Will
Broadband Corp.
http://www.broadband-mn.com



Jeff Broadwick wrote:
Is it still possible to buy a new computer and use XP? 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:23 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

Games.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message -
From: Jonathan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:38 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question


  

We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office.

We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but
definitely slower, that's not meaningful.

The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with 
less

than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK.  (Why it becomes
unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments).

We haven't had driver problems.

We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista.  Not many, but perhaps
50% more.

The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was, 
in
XP, in one place into several far flung places.  It may make more sense 
but

drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy.

The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into
fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving
the support guys nuts.  Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now
calling support.

The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks 
with

a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work.  That just makes
people mad at Microsoft.

Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order 
XP/PRO

(at a small cost).

It doesn't appear that VISTA was a good business/technical decision on
Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new 
PCs.


It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb.

It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been more
and more popular and we accept that for our system.  They have caused no
problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and 
aggressively

help each other the way early PC users used to do.  There are only a tiny
fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on
Macintosh as the same or better.  That argument doesn't fly anymore.

. . . J o n a t h a n



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

Hi,

Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine
running XP. Why would I upgrade to an OS that is slower?

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:


Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO HORRIBLE...
but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears.
I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista
itself.  Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update
software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault...  that's the
fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question


  

In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

dreaded  MS Vista


Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version,
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning
curve with so many changes from the earlier versions.  Vista is here
to stay and you  should be learning it-not going backwards.


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995




**Check out AOL's list of 2007's
hottest products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000300
0001)



-
---

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread Mike Hammett

Yes, you can do so with Dell.  I just received an ad from them about one.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Jeff Broadwick [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:01 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question



Is it still possible to buy a new computer and use XP?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:23 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

Games.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message -
From: Jonathan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:38 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question



We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office.

We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but
definitely slower, that's not meaningful.

The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with
less
than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK.  (Why it becomes
unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments).

We haven't had driver problems.

We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista.  Not many, but 
perhaps

50% more.

The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was,
in
XP, in one place into several far flung places.  It may make more sense
but
drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy.

The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into
fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving
the support guys nuts.  Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now
calling support.

The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks
with
a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work.  That just makes
people mad at Microsoft.

Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order
XP/PRO
(at a small cost).

It doesn't appear that VISTA was a good business/technical decision on
Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new
PCs.

It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb.

It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been 
more

and more popular and we accept that for our system.  They have caused no
problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and
aggressively
help each other the way early PC users used to do.  There are only a tiny
fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on
Macintosh as the same or better.  That argument doesn't fly anymore.

. . . J o n a t h a n



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

Hi,

Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine
running XP. Why would I upgrade to an OS that is slower?

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:

Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO HORRIBLE...
but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears.
I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista
itself.  Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update
software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault...  that's the
fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question




In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

dreaded  MS Vista


Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version,
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning
curve with so many changes from the earlier versions.  Vista is here
to stay and you  should be learning it-not going backwards.


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995




**Check out AOL's list of 2007's
hottest products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000300
0001)



-
---

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http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread Travis Johnson

Hi,

The least expensive MacBook on Apple's site is $1,099... and that's only 
a 13.3 screen. The HP's I purchased a couple months ago have 15.4 
screens... they were $600 each brand new.


The MacBook Pro (15 screen) starts at $1,999.

Travis
Microserv

D. Ryan Spott wrote:

$1000.00 You need to get out more! :)

Easy.

ryan


On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:32 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

Now we aren't comparing Apples to Oranges (literally). A new HP 
laptop that is decent is $600 at Best Buy. The same performance out 
of a Mac laptop is $1,400.


Travis
Microserv

D. Ryan Spott wrote:

Mac OS.

ryan


On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:04 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

My two daughters both have laptops. They both play Sims2 with all 
the expansion packs. Will that run on Ubuntu? What about Roller 
Coaster Tycoon? What about iTunes for their iPods?


Trust me, I would _love_ to be done with Microsoft and Windows... 
but there is no way to do it at this point (at least that I can see).


Travis
Microserv

Steve wrote:


Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer.  The install is 
easier than

window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware
removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you 
will

find that in the end you  are ahead of the game.
Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced
ubuntu/kubuntu.
I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the 
switch

to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back.
Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$ on 
every

computer we buy.
:-)
Steve

--


Travis Johnson wrote:


Jeff,

A family computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your
family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the
headaches of a Linux box for family use.

Travis
Microserv

Jeff Broadwick wrote:


Hi Butch,

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my 
family.  What Linux

desk-top would be best at this point?

Jeff

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate 
Version,
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a 
learning

curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.
Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going 
backwards.



I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall 
Linux and get

started with the learning curve.

--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified 
Consultant

http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html


 



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
 




WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread Scottie Arnett
For the ones that can't do it themselves, do you not have pc shops that still 
build white box solutions around you? They are more expensive, but you get it 
like Burger King, Have it your way!

We are also a pc shop, and I can load windows 95 on it for you if I can still 
find a place to buy it for you.

SHHH! but here is a little secret: 
http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/005512.html 

I have Heard that you can do it for any version of Vista.

HTH.


-- Original Message --
From: Anthony Will [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date:  Mon, 10 Dec 2007 07:59:28 -0600

Dell and HP still sell XP.  They are big enough to make Microsoft bend 
on the Vista release issues.  We only have this month left though as far 
as I can tell.  My bet is if SP1 doesn't resolve most of the issues with 
Vista that Dell and the like will continue to pressure MS for a XP 
solution.  This being mostly for business workstations. 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,130657-c,xp/article.html
http://www.osnews.com/story.php/17733/Dell-Resumes-Windows-XP-Sales-MS-To-Sell-Software-for-Cheap/

Anthony Will
Broadband Corp.
http://www.broadband-mn.com



Jeff Broadwick wrote:
 Is it still possible to buy a new computer and use XP? 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:23 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

 Games.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message -
 From: Jonathan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:38 PM
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question


   
 We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office.

 We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but
 definitely slower, that's not meaningful.

 The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with 
 less
 than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK.  (Why it becomes
 unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments).

 We haven't had driver problems.

 We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista.  Not many, but perhaps
 50% more.

 The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was, 
 in
 XP, in one place into several far flung places.  It may make more sense 
 but
 drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy.

 The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into
 fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving
 the support guys nuts.  Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now
 calling support.

 The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks 
 with
 a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work.  That just makes
 people mad at Microsoft.

 Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order 
 XP/PRO
 (at a small cost).

 It doesn't appear that VISTA was a good business/technical decision on
 Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new 
 PCs.

 It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb.

 It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been more
 and more popular and we accept that for our system.  They have caused no
 problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and 
 aggressively
 help each other the way early PC users used to do.  There are only a tiny
 fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on
 Macintosh as the same or better.  That argument doesn't fly anymore.

 . . . J o n a t h a n



 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Travis Johnson
 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

 Hi,

 Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine
 running XP. Why would I upgrade to an OS that is slower?

 Travis
 Microserv

 Mike Hammett wrote:
 
 Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO HORRIBLE...
 but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears.
 I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista
 itself.  Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update
 software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault...  that's the
 fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question


   
 In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 dreaded  MS Vista


 Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long
 time, starting with the Beta Version-now

RE: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread Butch Evans

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, Jeff Broadwick wrote:

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family. 
What Linux desk-top would be best at this point?


I have not used it extensively, but there are a number of users of 
Ubuntu.  The large user base means good support on forums and 
mailing lists.  Many recommend Kubuntu, but I am personally not a 
fan of KDE.  KDE is a very easy to use system, though, because it is 
very similar in look and feel to Windows.


Personally, I am using Fedora, which installs by default both Gnome 
and KDE.


For a family computer, I'd go with Ubuntu/Kubuntu.  For a geek 
computer, Fedora would be good.  Either one will require a bit of 
time to get working with some things, but the end result is a good 
experience.


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread Butch Evans

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs 
written for it, they would be of benefit or offer a little 
competition to MicroSoft But when it is barely into the 
hundreds, it is easy to have it work so easily.


What?  There are THOUSANDS of programs for Linux.  Do you use 
thousands of programs?  Give me a list of the must have programs 
you use, I can almost certainly give you a list of programs for 
Linux that will accomplish what you are looking for.


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread Travis Johnson

Adobe Photoshop
Scansoft Paperport
Quickbooks
iTunes (for my iPhone)
Streets and Trips 2008
Radio Mobile
Quark Xpress
Visio

thanks,

Travis
Microserv

Butch Evans wrote:

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs written 
for it, they would be of benefit or offer a little competition to 
MicroSoft But when it is barely into the hundreds, it is easy to 
have it work so easily.


What?  There are THOUSANDS of programs for Linux.  Do you use 
thousands of programs?  Give me a list of the must have programs you 
use, I can almost certainly give you a list of programs for Linux that 
will accomplish what you are looking for.






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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread Dylan Oliver
This is getting a little further astray, but what makes you think that
Fedora is geekier than Ubuntu? The ladies tell me I'm pretty geeky, but I
run Ubuntu and now you're stepping on my . Can we please agree that
there is nothing inherently more geeky about one distro vs another - though
Ubuntu happens to be used by more non-geeks than Fedora?

g :)

On Dec 10, 2007 11:46 AM, Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 For a family computer, I'd go with Ubuntu/Kubuntu.  For a geek
 computer, Fedora would be good.  Either one will require a bit of
 time to get working with some things, but the end result is a good
 experience.


-- 
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC
Sweeping Design LLC



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread Mike Hammett
There are too many Linux programs to count...  unfortunately, most of them 
are garbage and so is the support.  You get what you pay for.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question



On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs written for 
it, they would be of benefit or offer a little competition to 
MicroSoft But when it is barely into the hundreds, it is easy to have 
it work so easily.


What?  There are THOUSANDS of programs for Linux.  Do you use thousands of 
programs?  Give me a list of the must have programs you use, I can 
almost certainly give you a list of programs for Linux that will 
accomplish what you are looking for.


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread Butch Evans

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Travis Johnson wrote:


Adobe Photoshop


GIMP


Scansoft Paperport


Don't know what this one is.  If it is a scanner driver, then there 
is one called sane for Linux.  There is possibly more 
functionality in your app, but I am not familiar with what it is or 
does.



Quickbooks


GnuCash works well.  It is not compatible with QB, but it's 
functionality is similar and even looks a lot like QB.  I have moved 
most of my invoicing to an online solution (see 
https://butchevansconsulting.freshbooks.com/signup/) for a free 
trial for Freshbooks.  It is a web based application, so it works 
for ANY OS.



iTunes (for my iPhone)


MP3?  I am not an iTunes user, so perhaps I am missing what you are 
after here, but manipulating MP3 files and interacting with a cell 
phone (via bluetooth, USB or IR) is easy.  There are MANY places to 
download music (legal places like iTunes).



Streets and Trips 2008


I use google maps for this, but there is another program called 
GpsDrive that will provide you with similar functionality as Streets 
and Trips.  The only thing that may be missing is the ability to 
export your trip data to your mobile phone, if you use that sort of 
functionality.  For use in the car, I don't use my laptop OR phone. 
Instead, I use a GPS for the car, so perhaps there are other 
features that you can't get that I am not aware of.



Radio Mobile


Hmm...Not sure if RM will run under Linux with WINE, but I see 
instructions to install it, so I presume it will work.



Quark Xpress


Not sure what this is, either.


Visio


DIA.  DIA is a diagramming tool with functionality that is similar 
(maybe better) than Visio.


FWIW, the openoffice toolset is a MUCH better solution, IMO than 
Microsoft's Office suite.  I use presentation software ALL the time 
(for the classes I teach), so to me, that is a VERY important 
requirement.  One benefit (for me) to OpenOffice is that it will 
export directly to PDF format.  It can open MS Office documents, and 
even write in that format.  Evolution offers the email solution that 
is similar in function to Outlook, in that it has a contact manager, 
calendar function and can sync with Windows Mobile phones.


Firefox is a better browser, but there is a distribution of Internet 
Explorer for Linux as well, if you have sites that require IE.


There are THOUSANDS of other applications available.  These are just 
a few examples.  Many games are not going to run on Linux, but there 
are a LOT of games available for Linux, too.  I am not a gamer, so I 
can't speak to what is and is not available for this.


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread Dylan Oliver
Freshbooks is fantastic for service invoicing. It handles recurring billing
with supporting payment gateways, and also gives you the option to send
paper invoices (monthly, automatically!) for a little more than a dollar.

Roger Coude just announced Linux-friendly 8.6.0 this morning. It's worked
under WINE for a while now, but only after messing with .dlls. Here's his
announcement:

After intensive modifications in the program, it is now possible to run
Radio Mobile in a Linux-Wine environment and obtain almost the same
performance as in Windows.
The changes also benefit Windows user because the drawing speed has
increased, and the picture limit size jumped from 2000 to 5000 pixels.
Unfortunalely, due to the modifications done to rmwdlx32.dll, update
will have to be completed manually otherwise you will get a dll error
(file rmcore.zip in the download page).
To install under Linux, get the latest version of Wine, and run the
Microsoft VBruntime installer.
No more tricks with native dlls! The program just run fine with Wine
built-in librairies!
Note that all download from internet are doing fine at my home
connexion (I use Kubuntu). Still to be tested behind a proxy...
I have unlocked the map pixel size to 1 pixels for test purpose,
but I do not garantee anything above 2000.
Have fun!
Roger

2007/12/10 Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Travis Johnson wrote:

  Adobe Photoshop

 GIMP

  Scansoft Paperport

 Don't know what this one is.  If it is a scanner driver, then there
 is one called sane for Linux.  There is possibly more
 functionality in your app, but I am not familiar with what it is or
 does.

  Quickbooks

 GnuCash works well.  It is not compatible with QB, but it's
 functionality is similar and even looks a lot like QB.  I have moved
 most of my invoicing to an online solution (see
 https://butchevansconsulting.freshbooks.com/signup/) for a free
 trial for Freshbooks.  It is a web based application, so it works
 for ANY OS.

  iTunes (for my iPhone)

 MP3?  I am not an iTunes user, so perhaps I am missing what you are
 after here, but manipulating MP3 files and interacting with a cell
 phone (via bluetooth, USB or IR) is easy.  There are MANY places to
 download music (legal places like iTunes).

  Streets and Trips 2008

 I use google maps for this, but there is another program called
 GpsDrive that will provide you with similar functionality as Streets
 and Trips.  The only thing that may be missing is the ability to
 export your trip data to your mobile phone, if you use that sort of
 functionality.  For use in the car, I don't use my laptop OR phone.
 Instead, I use a GPS for the car, so perhaps there are other
 features that you can't get that I am not aware of.

  Radio Mobile

 Hmm...Not sure if RM will run under Linux with WINE, but I see
 instructions to install it, so I presume it will work.

  Quark Xpress

 Not sure what this is, either.

  Visio

 DIA.  DIA is a diagramming tool with functionality that is similar
 (maybe better) than Visio.

 FWIW, the openoffice toolset is a MUCH better solution, IMO than
 Microsoft's Office suite.  I use presentation software ALL the time
 (for the classes I teach), so to me, that is a VERY important
 requirement.  One benefit (for me) to OpenOffice is that it will
 export directly to PDF format.  It can open MS Office documents, and
 even write in that format.  Evolution offers the email solution that
 is similar in function to Outlook, in that it has a contact manager,
 calendar function and can sync with Windows Mobile phones.

 Firefox is a better browser, but there is a distribution of Internet
 Explorer for Linux as well, if you have sites that require IE.

 There are THOUSANDS of other applications available.  These are just
 a few examples.  Many games are not going to run on Linux, but there
 are a LOT of games available for Linux, too.  I am not a gamer, so I
 can't speak to what is and is not available for this.

 --
 Butch Evans
 Network Engineering and Security Consulting
 573-276-2879
 http://www.butchevans.com/
 My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
 Mikrotik Certified Consultant
 http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html


 

 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 


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-- 
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC



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RE: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread Brad Belton
Ok, here is a curve ball for you Butch; WinBox into a MikroTik router
running v2.8.  grin  

Only because recently you said you couldn't WinBox into a v2.8 client router
we were working on together from your Linux machine.  ducking

Best,


Brad



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 12:32 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Travis Johnson wrote:

 Adobe Photoshop

GIMP

 Scansoft Paperport

Don't know what this one is.  If it is a scanner driver, then there 
is one called sane for Linux.  There is possibly more 
functionality in your app, but I am not familiar with what it is or 
does.

 Quickbooks

GnuCash works well.  It is not compatible with QB, but it's 
functionality is similar and even looks a lot like QB.  I have moved 
most of my invoicing to an online solution (see 
https://butchevansconsulting.freshbooks.com/signup/) for a free 
trial for Freshbooks.  It is a web based application, so it works 
for ANY OS.

 iTunes (for my iPhone)

MP3?  I am not an iTunes user, so perhaps I am missing what you are 
after here, but manipulating MP3 files and interacting with a cell 
phone (via bluetooth, USB or IR) is easy.  There are MANY places to 
download music (legal places like iTunes).

 Streets and Trips 2008

I use google maps for this, but there is another program called 
GpsDrive that will provide you with similar functionality as Streets 
and Trips.  The only thing that may be missing is the ability to 
export your trip data to your mobile phone, if you use that sort of 
functionality.  For use in the car, I don't use my laptop OR phone. 
Instead, I use a GPS for the car, so perhaps there are other 
features that you can't get that I am not aware of.

 Radio Mobile

Hmm...Not sure if RM will run under Linux with WINE, but I see 
instructions to install it, so I presume it will work.

 Quark Xpress

Not sure what this is, either.

 Visio

DIA.  DIA is a diagramming tool with functionality that is similar 
(maybe better) than Visio.

FWIW, the openoffice toolset is a MUCH better solution, IMO than 
Microsoft's Office suite.  I use presentation software ALL the time 
(for the classes I teach), so to me, that is a VERY important 
requirement.  One benefit (for me) to OpenOffice is that it will 
export directly to PDF format.  It can open MS Office documents, and 
even write in that format.  Evolution offers the email solution that 
is similar in function to Outlook, in that it has a contact manager, 
calendar function and can sync with Windows Mobile phones.

Firefox is a better browser, but there is a distribution of Internet 
Explorer for Linux as well, if you have sites that require IE.

There are THOUSANDS of other applications available.  These are just 
a few examples.  Many games are not going to run on Linux, but there 
are a LOT of games available for Linux, too.  I am not a gamer, so I 
can't speak to what is and is not available for this.

-- 
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html




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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread Butch Evans

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Dylan Oliver wrote:

This is getting a little further astray, but what makes you think 
that Fedora is geekier than Ubuntu? The ladies tell me I'm pretty 
geeky, but I run Ubuntu and now you're stepping on my . Can we 
please agree that there is nothing inherently more geeky about one 
distro vs another - though Ubuntu happens to be used by more 
non-geeks than Fedora?


LOL.  Ok...Ubuntu can be geeky, too.  ;-)  Really, my intent was to 
show that Ubuntu offers a more user friendly type of install and 
experience.  In reality, it is probably a better desktop distro.  I 
use Fedora mostly because that is what my servers are built on, and 
I am a FreeBSD guy, so I am still in a bit of a learning curve with 
Linux.


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread Butch Evans

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Mike Hammett wrote:

There are too many Linux programs to count...  unfortunately, most 
of them are garbage and so is the support.  You get what you pay 
for.


Nobody is trying to convince you of anything.  You are obviously not 
very familiar regarding this topic, so your input is noted, as is 
your experience in this area.


Want info on a new MLM program?  I guess you are an expert there, 
too, so nevermind.  sheesh!


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html



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RE: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread Butch Evans

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Brad Belton wrote:

Ok, here is a curve ball for you Butch; WinBox into a MikroTik 
router running v2.8.  grin


lol.  Terminal with ssh?  That is my preferred method anyway.  I use 
winbox mostly because it remembers passwords anyway.  ;-)


Only because recently you said you couldn't WinBox into a v2.8 
client router we were working on together from your Linux machine. 
ducking


I think it is funny some of the issues that I experience with Winbox 
under Linux.  Any version of RouterOS older than 2.9.38 has issues, 
though there are more issues with 2.8.x.  Also, in Winbox, I cannot 
seem to run a new terminal because it does not work correctly at 
all.  Also, the drag and drop feature in Winbox does not work.   It 
just seems odd to me that MT would have these issues with Linux, 
considering that they are Linux programmers as part of their 
business.  I know that there are several MT employees who use Linux 
desktops, too.


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread Butch Evans

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Butch Evans wrote:


Nobody is trying to convince you of anything.


CRAP.  I apologize to the list (and Mike) for posting this to the 
list.  I did not intend for this to go here.


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread Dylan Oliver
Glad we can be friends again! There is a 'server' edition for Ubuntu:
http://www.ubuntu.com/products/WhatIsUbuntu/serveredition. I just noticed a
version optimized for VMWare (
http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition/jeos), which is
great for me as I run XP for Quickbooks and Manifold and Adobe CS3 but keep
Ubuntu running in the background as a development server.

Best,
-- 
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread Mike Hammett
I've been using Linux in one duty or another for years...  5+.  It cannot be 
a replacement for the home or small business desktop at this time.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question



On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Mike Hammett wrote:

There are too many Linux programs to count...  unfortunately, most of them 
are garbage and so is the support.  You get what you pay for.


Nobody is trying to convince you of anything.  You are obviously not very 
familiar regarding this topic, so your input is noted, as is your 
experience in this area.


Want info on a new MLM program?  I guess you are an expert there, too, so 
nevermind.  sheesh!


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html



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RE: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread CHUCK PROFITO
Please add network stumbler to the list

Chuck Profito
209-988-7388
CV-ACCESS, INC
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Providing High Speed Broadband 
to Rural Central California


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 9:57 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question


Adobe Photoshop
Scansoft Paperport
Quickbooks
iTunes (for my iPhone)
Streets and Trips 2008
Radio Mobile
Quark Xpress
Visio

thanks,

Travis
Microserv

Butch Evans wrote:
 On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs written
 for it, they would be of benefit or offer a little competition to 
 MicroSoft But when it is barely into the hundreds, it is easy to 
 have it work so easily.

 What?  There are THOUSANDS of programs for Linux.  Do you use
 thousands of programs?  Give me a list of the must have programs you 
 use, I can almost certainly give you a list of programs for Linux that 
 will accomplish what you are looking for.





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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread Andrew Niemantsverdriet
Kismet works better than I could ever get network stumbler to work.
More details too...

On Dec 10, 2007 1:05 PM, CHUCK  PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Please add network stumbler to the list

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Travis Johnson
 Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 9:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question



 Adobe Photoshop
 Scansoft Paperport
 Quickbooks
 iTunes (for my iPhone)
 Streets and Trips 2008
 Radio Mobile
 Quark Xpress
 Visio

 thanks,

 Travis
 Microserv

 Butch Evans wrote:
  On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs written
  for it, they would be of benefit or offer a little competition to
  MicroSoft But when it is barely into the hundreds, it is easy to
  have it work so easily.
 
  What?  There are THOUSANDS of programs for Linux.  Do you use
  thousands of programs?  Give me a list of the must have programs you
  use, I can almost certainly give you a list of programs for Linux that
  will accomplish what you are looking for.
 


 
 
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RE: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread Mark McElvy
Stumbler does not run under Vista either,

Mark 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 2:06 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question

Please add network stumbler to the list

Chuck Profito
209-988-7388
CV-ACCESS, INC
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Providing High Speed Broadband 
to Rural Central California


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 9:57 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question


Adobe Photoshop
Scansoft Paperport
Quickbooks
iTunes (for my iPhone)
Streets and Trips 2008
Radio Mobile
Quark Xpress
Visio

thanks,

Travis
Microserv

Butch Evans wrote:
 On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs written
 for it, they would be of benefit or offer a little competition to 
 MicroSoft But when it is barely into the hundreds, it is easy to 
 have it work so easily.

 What?  There are THOUSANDS of programs for Linux.  Do you use
 thousands of programs?  Give me a list of the must have programs you

 use, I can almost certainly give you a list of programs for Linux that

 will accomplish what you are looking for.






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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-10 Thread Frank Muto
I just bought a nice Systemax from Tiger Direct with XP and it includes a Vista Business upgrade license. It has plenty of 
room for expansion and the 2 Firewire ports work nice with the external storage HDD I use for backups for extra speed over 
USB.


The Systemax Venture comes with a Dual Core Intel Core 2 Quad processor, a 500GB SATA II hard drive, and 2GB of DDR2 PC6400 
RAM, on a D975XBX motherboard. Plus a 20x DVD±RW dual layer dvd/cd burner, a DVD-ROM/CD burner Combo Drive, flash card 
reader,7.1 channel audio, gigabit LAN, GeForce 8800GTS 320MB video card. $1500.00 and 3-year PL On-site warranty.


http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2967394CatId=6



Frank Muto
President
FSM Marketing Group, Inc.
www.SecureEmailPlus.com








- Original Message - 
From: Jeff Broadwick [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 7:01 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question



Is it still possible to buy a new computer and use XP?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:23 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

Games.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message -
From: Jonathan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:38 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question



We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office.

We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but
definitely slower, that's not meaningful.

The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with
less
than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK.  (Why it becomes
unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments).

We haven't had driver problems.

We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista.  Not many, but perhaps
50% more.

The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was,
in
XP, in one place into several far flung places.  It may make more sense
but
drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy.

The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into
fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving
the support guys nuts.  Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now
calling support.

The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks
with
a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work.  That just makes
people mad at Microsoft.

Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order
XP/PRO
(at a small cost).

It doesn't appear that VISTA was a good business/technical decision on
Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new
PCs.

It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb.

It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been more
and more popular and we accept that for our system.  They have caused no
problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and
aggressively
help each other the way early PC users used to do.  There are only a tiny
fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on
Macintosh as the same or better.  That argument doesn't fly anymore.

. . . J o n a t h a n



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

Hi,

Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine
running XP. Why would I upgrade to an OS that is slower?

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:

Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO HORRIBLE...
but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears.
I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista
itself.  Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update
software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault...  that's the
fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question




In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

dreaded  MS Vista


Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version,
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning
curve with so many changes from the earlier versions.  Vista is here
to stay and you  should be learning it-not going backwards.


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995

RE: [WISPA] OT......Question THREAD CLOSED

2007-12-10 Thread Rick Harnish
Let's move this thread to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you care to continue please.  I
have received several requests to kill this thread. 

Thank you,
Rick Harnish

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1179 - Release Date: 12/9/2007
11:06 AM
 




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RE: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Mike Bushard, Jr
I did basically the same thing a long time ago with Partition Magic and OSXL
boot loader. I resized the Windows partition, created a small one for OSXL
and used the remaining space for linux.

Mike Bushard, Jr
Wireless Network Engineer
320-256-WISP (9477)
320-256-9478 Fax

 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question

Sorry for this one guys.  Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a network  
guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in naturesort of

I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the  
dreaded MS Vista on it.  Is it possible to partition the hard drive,  
delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing anything to  
the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other program available  
to assist my non-OS compliant butt???  :-)

If you want to reply offlist thats fine.

Tnx.

-B-

Bob Moldashel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]







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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread George Rogato
Vista doesn't need partition magic, it has it's own partition utility 
built in.
So if you want to install linux, open up the vista partition utility, 
squeeze the partition size down for vista and then install linux. Linux 
will find the space.


Also, no reason why you can't just wipe vista and put xp on there if you 
really don't want vista.



Mike Bushard, Jr wrote:

I did basically the same thing a long time ago with Partition Magic and OSXL
boot loader. I resized the Windows partition, created a small one for OSXL
and used the remaining space for linux.

Mike Bushard, Jr
Wireless Network Engineer
320-256-WISP (9477)
320-256-9478 Fax

 
-Original Message-

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question

Sorry for this one guys.  Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a network  
guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in naturesort of


I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the  
dreaded MS Vista on it.  Is it possible to partition the hard drive,  
delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing anything to  
the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other program available  
to assist my non-OS compliant butt???  :-)


If you want to reply offlist thats fine.

Tnx.

-B-

Bob Moldashel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]







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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Bob Moldashel
That's what I thought.  I just need to find a Dummies verson so I  
can do it!  :-)


-B-
On Dec 9, 2007, at 11:35 AM, Mike Bushard, Jr wrote:

I did basically the same thing a long time ago with Partition Magic  
and OSXL
boot loader. I resized the Windows partition, created a small one  
for OSXL

and used the remaining space for linux.

Mike Bushard, Jr
Wireless Network Engineer
320-256-WISP (9477)
320-256-9478 Fax


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question

Sorry for this one guys.  Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a network
guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in naturesort  
of


I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the
dreaded MS Vista on it.  Is it possible to partition the hard drive,
delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing anything to
the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other program available
to assist my non-OS compliant butt???  :-)

If you want to reply offlist thats fine.

Tnx.

-B-

Bob Moldashel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]





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[EMAIL PROTECTED]






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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Bob Moldashel
Thanks George.  I just want to leave Vista on there incase something  
happens and I need to take the machine back to the geniuses at Best  
Buy.  they love to turn stuff on and blame software for issues.  Its  
a just in case issue.


Thanks!


-B-
On Dec 9, 2007, at 11:41 AM, George Rogato wrote:

Vista doesn't need partition magic, it has it's own partition  
utility built in.
So if you want to install linux, open up the vista partition  
utility, squeeze the partition size down for vista and then install  
linux. Linux will find the space.


Also, no reason why you can't just wipe vista and put xp on there  
if you really don't want vista.



Mike Bushard, Jr wrote:
I did basically the same thing a long time ago with Partition  
Magic and OSXL
boot loader. I resized the Windows partition, created a small one  
for OSXL

and used the remaining space for linux.
Mike Bushard, Jr
Wireless Network Engineer
320-256-WISP (9477)
320-256-9478 Fax
 -Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question
Sorry for this one guys.  Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a  
network  guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in  
naturesort of
I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the   
dreaded MS Vista on it.  Is it possible to partition the hard  
drive,  delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing  
anything to  the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other  
program available  to assist my non-OS compliant butt???  :-)

If you want to reply offlist thats fine.
Tnx.
-B-
Bob Moldashel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- 
---


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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Travis Johnson
The only other issue you will have is finding all the XP drivers for the 
laptop. HP/Compaq no longer publish the XP drivers for laptops that come 
with Vista on them. You can still find them, it just takes a little 
searching.


Travis
Microserv

Bob Moldashel wrote:
Thanks George.  I just want to leave Vista on there incase something 
happens and I need to take the machine back to the geniuses at Best 
Buy.  they love to turn stuff on and blame software for issues.  Its a 
just in case issue.


Thanks!


-B-
On Dec 9, 2007, at 11:41 AM, George Rogato wrote:

Vista doesn't need partition magic, it has it's own partition utility 
built in.
So if you want to install linux, open up the vista partition utility, 
squeeze the partition size down for vista and then install linux. 
Linux will find the space.


Also, no reason why you can't just wipe vista and put xp on there if 
you really don't want vista.



Mike Bushard, Jr wrote:
I did basically the same thing a long time ago with Partition Magic 
and OSXL
boot loader. I resized the Windows partition, created a small one 
for OSXL

and used the remaining space for linux.
Mike Bushard, Jr
Wireless Network Engineer
320-256-WISP (9477)
320-256-9478 Fax
 -Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question
Sorry for this one guys.  Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a 
network  guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in 
naturesort of
I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the  
dreaded MS Vista on it.  Is it possible to partition the hard 
drive,  delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing 
anything to  the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other 
program available  to assist my non-OS compliant butt???  :-)

If you want to reply offlist thats fine.
Tnx.
-B-
Bob Moldashel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 



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RE: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Ty Carter Lightwave Communications
Bob:

Take a look at http://apcmag.com/5023/dual_booting_xp_with_vista

And goto the section labeled: Get Started - Using DISKPART.. Don't pay
any attention to the steps prior to the Get Started - Using
DISKPART...

It is very straight forward and simple...

It works.. I have done this for multiple laptops that I put in the
field.




--
Regards,

Ty Carter, President
Strategic Network Consultants, Inc.
524 East 9th Street
Washington, NC  27889
252-946-0351 .::. Office
252-402-5296 .::. Cell
252-946-8763 .::. Fax
E-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Visit us on the web at:  http://www.strategicconsultants.net



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question

Sorry for this one guys.  Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a network  
guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in naturesort of

I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the  
dreaded MS Vista on it.  Is it possible to partition the hard drive,  
delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing anything to  
the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other program available  
to assist my non-OS compliant butt???  :-)

If you want to reply offlist thats fine.

Tnx.

-B-

Bob Moldashel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]







WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread WWS2
 
In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

dreaded  MS Vista 


Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long  time, 
starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without  
problems 
[laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning curve with so  many changes 
from the earlier versions.  Vista is here to stay and you  should be learning 
it-not going backwards.  


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995




**Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest 
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301)



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Mike Hammett
Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO HORRIBLE...  but 
then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears.  I've been 
using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista itself.  Sure, 
I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update software\drivers, but 
that's not Microsoft's fault...  that's the fault of lazy vendors *cough* 
DELL *cough*.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question




In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

dreaded  MS Vista


Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long  time,
starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without 
problems
[laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning curve with so  many 
changes
from the earlier versions.  Vista is here to stay and you  should be 
learning

it-not going backwards.


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995




**Check out AOL's list of 2007's 
hottest

products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301)



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread lakeland
K. Tnx
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 10:17:12 
To:WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question


The only other issue you will have is finding all the XP drivers for the 
laptop. HP/Compaq no longer publish the XP drivers for laptops that come 
with Vista on them. You can still find them, it just takes a little 
searching.

Travis
Microserv

Bob Moldashel wrote:
 Thanks George.  I just want to leave Vista on there incase something 
 happens and I need to take the machine back to the geniuses at Best 
 Buy.  they love to turn stuff on and blame software for issues.  Its a 
 just in case issue.

 Thanks!


 -B-
 On Dec 9, 2007, at 11:41 AM, George Rogato wrote:

 Vista doesn't need partition magic, it has it's own partition utility 
 built in.
 So if you want to install linux, open up the vista partition utility, 
 squeeze the partition size down for vista and then install linux. 
 Linux will find the space.

 Also, no reason why you can't just wipe vista and put xp on there if 
 you really don't want vista.


 Mike Bushard, Jr wrote:
 I did basically the same thing a long time ago with Partition Magic 
 and OSXL
 boot loader. I resized the Windows partition, created a small one 
 for OSXL
 and used the remaining space for linux.
 Mike Bushard, Jr
 Wireless Network Engineer
 320-256-WISP (9477)
 320-256-9478 Fax
  -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:29 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question
 Sorry for this one guys.  Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a 
 network  guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in 
 naturesort of
 I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the  
 dreaded MS Vista on it.  Is it possible to partition the hard 
 drive,  delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing 
 anything to  the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other 
 program available  to assist my non-OS compliant butt???  :-)
 If you want to reply offlist thats fine.
 Tnx.
 -B-
 Bob Moldashel
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  

 
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 [EMAIL PROTECTED]





 
  

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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Ryan Langseth
Thats because in about a year, SP1 will be released and clear up the  
major problems.I consider the first version of any new MS OS to be  
a release candidate at best.  Frankly if they do not clean up the  
Usability of Vista, it  will be the OS the drives me completely to OS  
X or Linux.   I already use the alternatives to windows a majority of  
the time anyways, its just certain programs that I still need windows  
(hint: Alvarion BreezeConfig for instance).  But apple and the major  
linux distros are working to eliminating that need _without_ having to  
piece it together myself.


These alternative OS's are also producing better products,  I upgraded  
my old ibook to 10.5 without having to do any upgrade on the hardware,  
and 10.5 seems to be faster than 10.4. While part of this is because  
of the limited hardware Apple needs to support, they still were able  
to make major upgrades, support 2 hardware architectures,  and it is  
still built better.  The desktop linux distros are getting closer to  
products that anyone can use,  again there is no hardware upgrade  
needed.


You can see these alternatives are scaring MS,  just look at  
graphics,  Vista supports OpenGL as a software compatibility in  
DirectX, and its performance is poor. Why? Because they want to lock  
game developers to their proprietary system, so that those games  
cannot be ported to other OS's which I personally hope backfires on  
them.   Microsoft needs to drop the monopolistic, proprietary  
attitude. Right now they can't even produce a standards compliant web  
browser because of their business tactics.


Even Microsoft isn't using Vista on everything.  They are pushing to  
get XO  to upgrade the OLPC hardware to run XP, not vista, because  
they know they will never get vista to run on lower performance  
machines. They also know they will lose entire continents to Linux if  
the OLPC with linux  becomes popular.



Frankly a lot of people do not use vista because of compatibility and  
usability issues,  once those are cleared up, right around SP1's  
release, I will give it a try again as a personal system.  But it will  
be another 6 moths to a year until major corporations are ready to  
deploy it,  They need to do regression testing, compatibility testing,  
upgrades, etc.   System changes should never be attempted ad-hoc,  
unless you want to waste a lot of money and time.


DELL is not to blame for the drivers,  they don't produce the  
hardware, they put it into systems.  blame the companies that make the  
components and chipsets, Intel, Broadcom, ATI, Nvidia, and etc.  Also  
make sure that when you lay that blame on them, you need to make sure  
that the APIs available to them from MS were complete for vista.   
Microsoft's blame on the hardware issues is somewhat apparent,  how  
many features were dropped, severely changed or rewritten during the  
much delayed release of Vista,  they released it not because it was  
ready, but because they needed to do something


Just as much has to be blamed on the software vendors that produce  
crap that runs on the OS,  the numerous hacks that MS has to build  
into the new versions of each OS to support poorly written third party  
applications is ridiculous.


Ryan

On Dec 9, 2007, at 12:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO  
HORRIBLE...  but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their  
fabricated fears.  I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have  
0 issues with Vista itself.  Sure, I've had problems with vendors  
who are slow to update software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's  
fault...  that's the fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question




In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

dreaded  MS Vista


Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long   
time,
starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version,  
without problems
[laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning curve with so   
many changes
from the earlier versions.  Vista is here to stay and you  should  
be learning

it-not going backwards.


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995




**Check out AOL's list of  
2007's hottest

products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301 
)




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe

Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread lakeland
It is not so much the new OS but the fact that many aftermarket programs do not 
work with it. And forget about printer drivers.  I have a plotter that is 
relatively new and there is no chance for a driver to work with Vista.

If you use it for present day sofware you are fine.

Bob
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 12:57:00 
To:wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question


 
In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

dreaded  MS Vista 


Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long  time, 
starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without  
problems 
[laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning curve with so  many changes 
from the earlier versions.  Vista is here to stay and you  should be learning 
it-not going backwards.  


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995




**Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest 
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301)



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread lakeland
My appologies to the list.  The one thing i was hoping to avoid was an OS 
thread.  We all know how that discussion loads up the list hard drive.


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread lakeland
Will do.  Tnx
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Ty Carter Lightwave Communications [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 12:45:32 
To:WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question


Bob:

Take a look at http://apcmag.com/5023/dual_booting_xp_with_vista

And goto the section labeled: Get Started - Using DISKPART.. Don't pay
any attention to the steps prior to the Get Started - Using
DISKPART...

It is very straight forward and simple...

It works.. I have done this for multiple laptops that I put in the
field.




--
Regards,

Ty Carter, President
Strategic Network Consultants, Inc.
524 East 9th Street
Washington, NC  27889
252-946-0351 .::. Office
252-402-5296 .::. Cell
252-946-8763 .::. Fax
E-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Visit us on the web at:  http://www.strategicconsultants.net



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question

Sorry for this one guys.  Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a network  
guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in naturesort of

I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the  
dreaded MS Vista on it.  Is it possible to partition the hard drive,  
delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing anything to  
the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other program available  
to assist my non-OS compliant butt???  :-)

If you want to reply offlist thats fine.

Tnx.

-B-

Bob Moldashel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]







WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Mike Hammett
No, no, Dell is to blame.  If a component manufacturer makes something and 
someone else puts it on their board\in their machine, they are the 
responsible ones.  ATI makes 64 bit Vista drivers, Dell does not have them 
available.  ATI won't install because it's a Dell machine.  There are many 
other drivers not available through Dell that are through someone else. 
Dell also doesn't have their software ready for this platform.  There are 
plenty of device manufacturers that don't have the drivers, though.


I don't buy the not having time to test...  Vista betas and release 
candidates have been available to developers for a couple years.  Vista 
release candidates were available to just about anyone else several months 
before release.  They had time, they just chose to slack off since they 
could blame it on someone else...  kinda like cable companies forcing their 
customers to digital systems and blaming it on the government's efforts to 
stop analog broadcasts.





-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Ryan Langseth [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question


Thats because in about a year, SP1 will be released and clear up the 
major problems.I consider the first version of any new MS OS to be  a 
release candidate at best.  Frankly if they do not clean up the  Usability 
of Vista, it  will be the OS the drives me completely to OS  X or Linux. 
I already use the alternatives to windows a majority of  the time anyways, 
its just certain programs that I still need windows  (hint: Alvarion 
BreezeConfig for instance).  But apple and the major  linux distros are 
working to eliminating that need _without_ having to  piece it together 
myself.


These alternative OS's are also producing better products,  I upgraded  my 
old ibook to 10.5 without having to do any upgrade on the hardware,  and 
10.5 seems to be faster than 10.4. While part of this is because  of the 
limited hardware Apple needs to support, they still were able  to make 
major upgrades, support 2 hardware architectures,  and it is  still built 
better.  The desktop linux distros are getting closer to  products that 
anyone can use,  again there is no hardware upgrade  needed.


You can see these alternatives are scaring MS,  just look at  graphics, 
Vista supports OpenGL as a software compatibility in  DirectX, and its 
performance is poor. Why? Because they want to lock  game developers to 
their proprietary system, so that those games  cannot be ported to other 
OS's which I personally hope backfires on  them.   Microsoft needs to drop 
the monopolistic, proprietary  attitude. Right now they can't even produce 
a standards compliant web  browser because of their business tactics.


Even Microsoft isn't using Vista on everything.  They are pushing to  get 
XO  to upgrade the OLPC hardware to run XP, not vista, because  they know 
they will never get vista to run on lower performance  machines. They also 
know they will lose entire continents to Linux if  the OLPC with linux 
becomes popular.



Frankly a lot of people do not use vista because of compatibility and 
usability issues,  once those are cleared up, right around SP1's  release, 
I will give it a try again as a personal system.  But it will  be another 
6 moths to a year until major corporations are ready to  deploy it,  They 
need to do regression testing, compatibility testing,  upgrades, etc. 
System changes should never be attempted ad-hoc,  unless you want to waste 
a lot of money and time.


DELL is not to blame for the drivers,  they don't produce the  hardware, 
they put it into systems.  blame the companies that make the  components 
and chipsets, Intel, Broadcom, ATI, Nvidia, and etc.  Also  make sure that 
when you lay that blame on them, you need to make sure  that the APIs 
available to them from MS were complete for vista.   Microsoft's blame on 
the hardware issues is somewhat apparent,  how  many features were 
dropped, severely changed or rewritten during the  much delayed release of 
Vista,  they released it not because it was  ready, but because they 
needed to do something


Just as much has to be blamed on the software vendors that produce  crap 
that runs on the OS,  the numerous hacks that MS has to build  into the 
new versions of each OS to support poorly written third party 
applications is ridiculous.


Ryan

On Dec 9, 2007, at 12:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO  HORRIBLE... 
but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their  fabricated fears.  I've 
been using Vista for about 4 months and have  0 issues with Vista itself. 
Sure, I've had problems with vendors  who are slow to update 
software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's  fault...  that's the fault 
of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*.



-
Mike Hammett

RE: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Doug
Try driveragent.com for odd drivers.  I have a Sony Vaio from Japan and 
couldn't find an English ethernet driver, but I found one on there.  At our 
computer store we use it daily for any odd driver.  It's not free but the 
subscription is invaluable to us as computer people.  It's an ActiveX control 
that scans your devices and has a library of device codes for nearly everything.

-Original Message-
From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 2:54 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

No, no, Dell is to blame.  If a component manufacturer makes something and 
someone else puts it on their board\in their machine, they are the 
responsible ones.  ATI makes 64 bit Vista drivers, Dell does not have them 
available.  ATI won't install because it's a Dell machine.  There are many 
other drivers not available through Dell that are through someone else. 
Dell also doesn't have their software ready for this platform.  There are 
plenty of device manufacturers that don't have the drivers, though.

I don't buy the not having time to test...  Vista betas and release 
candidates have been available to developers for a couple years.  Vista 
release candidates were available to just about anyone else several months 
before release.  They had time, they just chose to slack off since they 
could blame it on someone else...  kinda like cable companies forcing their 
customers to digital systems and blaming it on the government's efforts to 
stop analog broadcasts.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Ryan Langseth [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question


 Thats because in about a year, SP1 will be released and clear up the 
 major problems.I consider the first version of any new MS OS to be  a 
 release candidate at best.  Frankly if they do not clean up the  Usability 
 of Vista, it  will be the OS the drives me completely to OS  X or Linux. 
 I already use the alternatives to windows a majority of  the time anyways, 
 its just certain programs that I still need windows  (hint: Alvarion 
 BreezeConfig for instance).  But apple and the major  linux distros are 
 working to eliminating that need _without_ having to  piece it together 
 myself.

 These alternative OS's are also producing better products,  I upgraded  my 
 old ibook to 10.5 without having to do any upgrade

[The entire original message is not included]




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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Butch Evans

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long 
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate 
Version, without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a 
learning curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions. 
Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going 
backwards.


I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall Linux 
and get started with the learning curve.


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html



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RE: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Jeff Broadwick
Hi Butch,

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family.  What Linux
desk-top would be best at this point?

Jeff 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long 
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, 
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning 
curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.
Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards.

I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall Linux and get
started with the learning curve.

--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant
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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread WWS2
 
In a message dated 12/9/2007 6:48:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Hi  Butch,

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my  family.  What Linux
desk-top would be best at this point?

Jeff  



Depending upon how 'top' you need it to be, either buy a HP on sale or call  
your local High School and get one of the computer students to give you an  
online shopping list of parts and put it together.
 
Walter



**Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest 
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301)



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread WWS2
 
In a message dated 12/9/2007 3:16:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

On Sun,  9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Why is everyone so down on  Vista?  I have been using it for a long 
time, starting with the  Beta Version-now using the Ultimate 
Version, without problems [laptops  and PC's].  I think it is more a 
learning curve with so many  changes rom the earlier versions. 
Vista is here to stay and you should  be learning t-not going 
backwards.

I agree with the learning  and not going backwardsInstall Linux 
and get started with the  learning curve.



Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs written for  
it, they would be of benefit or offer a little competition to  MicroSoft
But when it is barely into the hundreds, it is easy to have it work so  
easily.  



**Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest 
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301)



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Travis Johnson




Jeff,

A "family" computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your
family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the
headaches of a Linux box for "family" use.

Travis
Microserv

Jeff Broadwick wrote:

  Hi Butch,

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family.  What Linux
desk-top would be best at this point?

Jeff 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long 
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, 
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning 
curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.
Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards.

  
  
I agree with the "learning and not going backwards"Install Linux and get
started with the learning curve.

--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html




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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Travis Johnson

Hi,

Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical 
machine running XP. Why would I upgrade to an OS that is slower?


Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:
Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO 
HORRIBLE...  but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their 
fabricated fears.  I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 
issues with Vista itself.  Sure, I've had problems with vendors who 
are slow to update software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's 
fault...  that's the fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question




In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

dreaded  MS Vista


Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long  
time,
starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, 
without problems
[laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning curve with so  
many changes
from the earlier versions.  Vista is here to stay and you  should be 
learning

it-not going backwards.


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995




**Check out AOL's list of 2007's 
hottest

products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) 




 


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RE: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Jonathan Schmidt
We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office.

We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but
definitely slower, that's not meaningful.

The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with less
than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK.  (Why it becomes
unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments).

We haven't had driver problems.

We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista.  Not many, but perhaps
50% more.

The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was, in
XP, in one place into several far flung places.  It may make more sense but
drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy. 

The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into
fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving
the support guys nuts.  Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now
calling support.

The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks with
a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work.  That just makes
people mad at Microsoft.

Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order XP/PRO
(at a small cost).

It doesn't appear that VISTA was a good business/technical decision on
Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new PCs.

It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb.

It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been more
and more popular and we accept that for our system.  They have caused no
problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and aggressively
help each other the way early PC users used to do.  There are only a tiny
fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on
Macintosh as the same or better.  That argument doesn't fly anymore.

. . . J o n a t h a n



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

Hi,

Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine
running XP. Why would I upgrade to an OS that is slower?

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:
 Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO HORRIBLE...  
 but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears.  
 I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista 
 itself.  Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update 
 software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault...  that's the 
 fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question



 In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 dreaded  MS Vista


 Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long 
 time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, 
 without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning 
 curve with so many changes from the earlier versions.  Vista is here 
 to stay and you  should be learning it-not going backwards.


 Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
 Xanadu Group Inc.
 179 Statesville Quarry Road
 Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
 973-702-3899
 fax  775-667-1995




 **Check out AOL's list of 2007's 
 hottest products.
 (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000300
 0001)



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 ---

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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Dylan Oliver
You are either a troll or willfully ignorant. There are tens of thousands of
programs available for linux:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ sudo wajig list-names | sed -e '/lib/d' | wc
Password:
17883 17883 239642

There are 17883 packages (which do not match the phrase 'lib', to weed out
about 7000 libraries) available for immediate installation on my system.

On Dec 9, 2007 6:36 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs written for
 it, they would be of benefit or offer a little competition to
  MicroSoft
 But when it is barely into the hundreds, it is easy to have it work so
 easily.



-- 
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Steve
Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer.  The install is easier than
window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware
removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you will
find that in the end you  are ahead of the game.
Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced
ubuntu/kubuntu.
I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the switch
to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back.
Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$ on every
computer we buy.
:-)
Steve

--


Travis Johnson wrote:
 Jeff,

 A family computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your
 family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the
 headaches of a Linux box for family use.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Jeff Broadwick wrote:
 Hi Butch,

 I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family.  What Linux
 desk-top would be best at this point?

 Jeff 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Butch Evans
 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

 On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   
 Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long 
 time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, 
 without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning 
 curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.
 Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards.
 

 I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall Linux and get
 started with the learning curve.

 --
 Butch Evans
 Network Engineering and Security Consulting
 573-276-2879
 http://www.butchevans.com/
 My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant
 http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html


 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Travis Johnson




Hi,

My two daughters both have laptops. They both play Sims2 with all the
expansion packs. Will that run on Ubuntu? What about Roller Coaster
Tycoon? What about iTunes for their iPods? 

Trust me, I would _love_ to be done with Microsoft and Windows... but
there is no way to do it at this point (at least that I can see).

Travis
Microserv

Steve wrote:

  Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer.  The install is easier than
window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware
removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you will
find that in the end you  are ahead of the game.
Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced
ubuntu/kubuntu.
I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the switch
to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back.
Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$ on every
computer we buy.
:-)
Steve

--


Travis Johnson wrote:
  
  
Jeff,

A "family" computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your
family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the
headaches of a Linux box for "family" use.

Travis
Microserv

Jeff Broadwick wrote:


  Hi Butch,

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family.  What Linux
desk-top would be best at this point?

Jeff 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long 
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, 
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning 
curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.
Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards.


  
  I agree with the "learning and not going backwards"Install Linux and get
started with the learning curve.

--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html




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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread D. Ryan Spott

Mac OS.

ryan


On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:04 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

My two daughters both have laptops. They both play Sims2 with all  
the expansion packs. Will that run on Ubuntu? What about Roller  
Coaster Tycoon? What about iTunes for their iPods?


Trust me, I would _love_ to be done with Microsoft and Windows...  
but there is no way to do it at this point (at least that I can see).


Travis
Microserv

Steve wrote:


Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer.  The install is easier  
than

window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware
removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you  
will

find that in the end you  are ahead of the game.
Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced
ubuntu/kubuntu.
I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the  
switch

to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back.
Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$ on  
every

computer we buy.
:-)
Steve

--


Travis Johnson wrote:


Jeff,

A family computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your
family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the
headaches of a Linux box for family use.

Travis
Microserv

Jeff Broadwick wrote:


Hi Butch,

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family.   
What Linux

desk-top would be best at this point?

Jeff

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate  
Version,
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a  
learning

curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.
Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going  
backwards.



I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall  
Linux and get

started with the learning curve.

--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified  
Consultant

http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html




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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Travis Johnson




The _only_ reason Vista will still be around is because Microsoft is
forcing people to buy it with new computers. If they had an installer
when the person first turned the computer on that would allow a
selection of XP or Vista, I bet 95% of people would pick XP.

Travis
Microserv

Jonathan Schmidt wrote:

  We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office.

We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but
definitely slower, that's not meaningful.

The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with less
than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK.  (Why it becomes
unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments).

We haven't had driver problems.

We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista.  Not many, but perhaps
50% more.

The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was, in
XP, in one place into several far flung places.  It may make more sense but
drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy. 

The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into
fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving
the support guys nuts.  Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now
calling support.

The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks with
a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work.  That just makes
people mad at Microsoft.

Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order XP/PRO
(at a small cost).

It doesn't appear that "VISTA" was a good business/technical decision on
Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new PCs.

It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb.

It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been more
and more popular and we accept that for our system.  They have caused no
problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and aggressively
help each other the way early PC users used to do.  There are only a tiny
fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on
Macintosh as the same or better.  That argument doesn't fly anymore.

. . . J o n a t h a n



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

Hi,

Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine
running XP. Why would I "upgrade" to an OS that is slower?

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:
  
  
Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO HORRIBLE...  
but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears.  
I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista 
itself.  Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update 
software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault...  that's the 
fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question




  In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

dreaded  MS Vista


Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long 
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, 
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning 
curve with so many changes from the earlier versions.  Vista is here 
to stay and you  should be learning it-not going backwards.


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995




**Check out AOL's list of 2007's 
hottest products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000300
0001)



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Steve
haven't tried those games but  some might work with wine

http://appdb.winehq.org/appbrowse.php?catId=0

Steve
--

Travis Johnson wrote:
 Hi,

 My two daughters both have laptops. They both play Sims2 with all the
 expansion packs. Will that run on Ubuntu? What about Roller Coaster
 Tycoon? What about iTunes for their iPods?

 Trust me, I would _love_ to be done with Microsoft and Windows... but
 there is no way to do it at this point (at least that I can see).

 Travis
 Microserv

 Steve wrote:
 Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer.  The install is easier than
 window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware
 removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you will
 find that in the end you  are ahead of the game.
 Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced
 ubuntu/kubuntu.
 I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the switch
 to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back.
 Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$ on every
 computer we buy.
 :-)
 Steve

 --


 Travis Johnson wrote:
   
 Jeff,

 A family computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your
 family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the
 headaches of a Linux box for family use.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Jeff Broadwick wrote:
 
 Hi Butch,

 I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family.  What 
 Linux
 desk-top would be best at this point?

 Jeff 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Butch Evans
 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

 On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   
   
 Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long 
 time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, 
 without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning 
 curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.
 Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards.
 
 
 I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall Linux and 
 get
 started with the learning curve.

 --
 Butch Evans
 Network Engineering and Security Consulting
 573-276-2879
 http://www.butchevans.com/
 My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant
 http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html


 
 
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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Travis Johnson
Now we aren't comparing Apples to Oranges (literally). A new HP laptop 
that is decent is $600 at Best Buy. The same performance out of a Mac 
laptop is $1,400.


Travis
Microserv

D. Ryan Spott wrote:

Mac OS.

ryan


On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:04 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

My two daughters both have laptops. They both play Sims2 with all the 
expansion packs. Will that run on Ubuntu? What about Roller Coaster 
Tycoon? What about iTunes for their iPods?


Trust me, I would _love_ to be done with Microsoft and Windows... but 
there is no way to do it at this point (at least that I can see).


Travis
Microserv

Steve wrote:


Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer.  The install is easier 
than

window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware
removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you will
find that in the end you  are ahead of the game.
Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced
ubuntu/kubuntu.
I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the switch
to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back.
Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$ on 
every

computer we buy.
:-)
Steve

--


Travis Johnson wrote:


Jeff,

A family computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your
family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the
headaches of a Linux box for family use.

Travis
Microserv

Jeff Broadwick wrote:


Hi Butch,

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family.  
What Linux

desk-top would be best at this point?

Jeff

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version,
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning
curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.
Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going 
backwards.



I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall 
Linux and get

started with the learning curve.

--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified 
Consultant

http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html


 



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread D. Ryan Spott

$1000.00 You need to get out more! :)

Easy.

ryan


On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:32 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

Now we aren't comparing Apples to Oranges (literally). A new HP  
laptop that is decent is $600 at Best Buy. The same performance out  
of a Mac laptop is $1,400.


Travis
Microserv

D. Ryan Spott wrote:

Mac OS.

ryan


On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:04 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

My two daughters both have laptops. They both play Sims2 with all  
the expansion packs. Will that run on Ubuntu? What about Roller  
Coaster Tycoon? What about iTunes for their iPods?


Trust me, I would _love_ to be done with Microsoft and Windows...  
but there is no way to do it at this point (at least that I can  
see).


Travis
Microserv

Steve wrote:


Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer.  The install is  
easier than

window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware
removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you  
will

find that in the end you  are ahead of the game.
Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced
ubuntu/kubuntu.
I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the  
switch

to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back.
Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$  
on every

computer we buy.
:-)
Steve

--


Travis Johnson wrote:


Jeff,

A family computer should still be Windows. Too many programs  
your

family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the
headaches of a Linux box for family use.

Travis
Microserv

Jeff Broadwick wrote:


Hi Butch,

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my  
family.  What Linux

desk-top would be best at this point?

Jeff

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
] On

Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a  
long
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate  
Version,
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a  
learning

curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.
Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going  
backwards.



I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall  
Linux and get

started with the learning curve.

--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified  
Consultant

http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html




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