Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)

2006-12-13 Thread KyWiFi LLC
I would say you're right Dylan so I am posting this reply on-list
so everyone knows the outcome of our newest company policy
regarding site surveys. (see below)


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - 
From: Dylan Oliver
To: KyWiFi LLC
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)


Thanks for the quick reply! I'll bet others on the list would like to know..

On 12/13/06, KyWiFi LLC wrote:

 Hi Dylan,

 It's working out great, we have made it standard policy.
 We haven't had to charge anyone's credit card because
 they all have purchased our service following a successful
 site survey at their premises.


 Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
 KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
 Your Hometown Broadband Provider
 http://www.KyWiFi.com
 Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
 ===
 $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
 $14.99 Home Phone Service
 $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
 - No Phone Line Required for DSL
 - FREE Activation  Equipment
 - Affordable Upfront Pricing
 - Locally Owned  Operated
 - We Also Service Most Rural Areas
 ===


 - Original Message -
 From: Dylan Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:44 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)


 How's your new policy for site surveys working out?

 On 10/10/06, KyWiFi LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  If it deters a tire kicker from wasting our company's resources,
  then I will be very happy. I don't believe it will deter anyone
  who is seriously wanting our broadband service as they will
  not be charged a site survey fee unless they decline service
  following a successful site survey at their location.
 
  If I forget, will someone please remind me in a couple months
  so I can report back whether or not our new site survey policy
  is successful or not. Sure will be nice if it works like your puppy
  story. ;-)
 
 
  Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
  KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
  Your Hometown Broadband Provider
  http://www.KyWiFi.com
  Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
  ===
  $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
  $14.99 Home Phone Service
  $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
  - No Phone Line Required for DSL
  - FREE Activation  Equipment
  - Affordable Upfront Pricing
  - Locally Owned  Operated
  - We Also Service Most Rural Areas
  ===
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:45 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)
 
 
  Its not that I don't understand or agree with your point of view, but I
  just
  question wether it will work based on unecessarily detering customers.
 Its
  hard enough getting someone willing to try wireless in the first place,
  and
  now you are saying that the odds of getting it aren't good enough to to
  risk
  your $29.  If trying to get their business isn't worth $29 to you, They
  may
  not even bother to subscribe.
 
  On the flip side, if your business is like mine, and you focus on
 Business
  and sure things, the lost residential business may not be a bad thing,
 if
  it
  just isn;t financially viable to go after with money at risk.
 
  It also could end up working th opposite. You are establishing value for
  your time. Possibly preventing other from abusing/taking up your time in
  the
  future. And when you set a value, people recognize it as more valuable
 and
  want it more.
 
  It goes back to my puppy story. I put an add for free puppies in the
  paper,
  and nobody called. The next week I put an add Puppies only $25, and sold
  every one of them the first day the paper was out.
 
  I'm interested in seeing how it plays out for you over time, charging
 the
  survey fee. Let us know as the plan progresses.
 
  PS. This is also a factor of wether you are in a underserved or served
  area.
  There is more demand in an underserved area. In my urban market,
 everyone
  offers everything for free.
 
  Tom DeReggi
  RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
  IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: KyWiFi LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:57 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)
 
 
  I think those who decline our service following a successful site
   survey are just tire kickers. They almost always tell our

Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)

2006-10-11 Thread Todd Lancaster
Yeah I do the same thing.  We tell the potential new customer that if the 
survey goes good we want to install them on the spot do to higher gas prices 
and cost of sending the guys out there twice.  If they only want the survey 
done and it goes good and they dont let us install it on the spot we tack a 
35.00 survey charge on them.  Seems to work good for us.  Cuts down on time 
and allows us to do more in a day.


Todd Lancaster
AlwaysOnLine LLC.

- Original Message - 
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)


We handle this a bit differently.  We don't do site surveys anymore.  We 
only do installs.


We book the appointment etc.  I head out to the site and IF I can't figure 
out a way to get service to them, I leave.  They owe nothing.  But if I 
can get them lit up, I have a customer.


laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: KyWiFi LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)



If it deters a tire kicker from wasting our company's resources,
then I will be very happy. I don't believe it will deter anyone
who is seriously wanting our broadband service as they will
not be charged a site survey fee unless they decline service
following a successful site survey at their location.

If I forget, will someone please remind me in a couple months
so I can report back whether or not our new site survey policy
is successful or not. Sure will be nice if it works like your puppy
story. ;-)


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - 
From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)


Its not that I don't understand or agree with your point of view, but I 
just
question wether it will work based on unecessarily detering customers. 
Its
hard enough getting someone willing to try wireless in the first place, 
and
now you are saying that the odds of getting it aren't good enough to to 
risk
your $29.  If trying to get their business isn't worth $29 to you, They 
may

not even bother to subscribe.

On the flip side, if your business is like mine, and you focus on 
Business
and sure things, the lost residential business may not be a bad thing, if 
it

just isn;t financially viable to go after with money at risk.

It also could end up working th opposite. You are establishing value for
your time. Possibly preventing other from abusing/taking up your time in 
the
future. And when you set a value, people recognize it as more valuable 
and

want it more.

It goes back to my puppy story. I put an add for free puppies in the 
paper,

and nobody called. The next week I put an add Puppies only $25, and sold
every one of them the first day the paper was out.

I'm interested in seeing how it plays out for you over time, charging the
survey fee. Let us know as the plan progresses.

PS. This is also a factor of wether you are in a underserved or served 
area.

There is more demand in an underserved area. In my urban market, everyone
offers everything for free.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: KyWiFi LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)



I think those who decline our service following a successful site
survey are just tire kickers. They almost always tell our subcontractor
that they will speak to the wife and get back to us or they were
merely wanting to see if our service was available in their area.
People of this stature waste our time and resources, they are the ones
that we need to avoid from the get go in order to optimize our company's
efficiency. I do not feel that we should punish ethical customers by
charging an inflated installation fee to subsidize our site survey
expenses
incurred by the tire kickers. We've decided that we are going to require
a signed site survey request

Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)

2006-10-10 Thread KyWiFi LLC
I think those who decline our service following a successful site
survey are just tire kickers. They almost always tell our subcontractor
that they will speak to the wife and get back to us or they were
merely wanting to see if our service was available in their area.
People of this stature waste our time and resources, they are the ones
that we need to avoid from the get go in order to optimize our company's
efficiency. I do not feel that we should punish ethical customers by
charging an inflated installation fee to subsidize our site survey expenses
incurred by the tire kickers. We've decided that we are going to require
a signed site survey request form with payment authorization prior to the
site survey being performed and those who decline service following a
successful site survey WILL BE billed the applicable site survey fee. If
they are serious about obtaining our service, they will find a fax machine
or scanner to return the signed document to our company. Feel free to
follow-up with me in a couple of months to see how this new policy is
working for our WISP. BTW, the other WISP in our area is charging
$75 - $150 for a site survey fee. The word on the street is that they are
adding 4 - 5 new subscribers per day but I find this very hard to believe
because we are only adding 4 - 5 per week but our coverage area is
more limited than their's. They are also charging $300 - $500 in upfront
installation/CPE fees compared to our $99 upfront fee. When their
company was planning expansion into our area, my partner and I hosted
a conference call with their two owners and they told us point blank,
people will pay us whatever we charge them because we are their
only option. This is just the opposite of how my partner and I approach
our WISP, we did not get into this business to get rich, we simply wanted
to offer a better service (for less) to the communities we service. We're
not the type of company who's strategy involves taking advantage of
people but if someone wants something (a site survey for instance), they
need to pay for it because it's the fair thing to do being that it does require
time, labor and other expenses. For now, we're just going to enforce the
site survey fee for those who are disrespectful of our resources (i.e. those
who decline our service following a successful site survey). Time will tell.


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - 
From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)


It seems more likely that Blair is disqualifying his prospects before 
spending money on a site survey.

One of the best sales skills is the ability to DQ prospects early - it 
saves the sales guy and the company time and money.

If the site survey for the prospect comes back positive, what are the 
objections?
Are you creating a response for each objection?

How are you presenting the site survey results?
Is it an enthusiastic delivery like The Irrestible Offer or is it flat?
 Wonderful! Right now you have a chance to get our broadband service. 
In just 2 days we will have you surfing the web on a safe, reliable and 
fast platform.

- Peter
RAD-INFO, Inc.

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Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)

2006-10-10 Thread Tom DeReggi
Its not that I don't understand or agree with your point of view, but I just 
question wether it will work based on unecessarily detering customers. Its 
hard enough getting someone willing to try wireless in the first place, and 
now you are saying that the odds of getting it aren't good enough to to risk 
your $29.  If trying to get their business isn't worth $29 to you, They may 
not even bother to subscribe.


On the flip side, if your business is like mine, and you focus on Business 
and sure things, the lost residential business may not be a bad thing, if it 
just isn;t financially viable to go after with money at risk.


It also could end up working th opposite. You are establishing value for 
your time. Possibly preventing other from abusing/taking up your time in the 
future. And when you set a value, people recognize it as more valuable and 
want it more.


It goes back to my puppy story. I put an add for free puppies in the paper, 
and nobody called. The next week I put an add Puppies only $25, and sold 
every one of them the first day the paper was out.


I'm interested in seeing how it plays out for you over time, charging the 
survey fee. Let us know as the plan progresses.


PS. This is also a factor of wether you are in a underserved or served area. 
There is more demand in an underserved area. In my urban market, everyone 
offers everything for free.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: KyWiFi LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)



I think those who decline our service following a successful site
survey are just tire kickers. They almost always tell our subcontractor
that they will speak to the wife and get back to us or they were
merely wanting to see if our service was available in their area.
People of this stature waste our time and resources, they are the ones
that we need to avoid from the get go in order to optimize our company's
efficiency. I do not feel that we should punish ethical customers by
charging an inflated installation fee to subsidize our site survey 
expenses

incurred by the tire kickers. We've decided that we are going to require
a signed site survey request form with payment authorization prior to the
site survey being performed and those who decline service following a
successful site survey WILL BE billed the applicable site survey fee. If
they are serious about obtaining our service, they will find a fax machine
or scanner to return the signed document to our company. Feel free to
follow-up with me in a couple of months to see how this new policy is
working for our WISP. BTW, the other WISP in our area is charging
$75 - $150 for a site survey fee. The word on the street is that they are
adding 4 - 5 new subscribers per day but I find this very hard to believe
because we are only adding 4 - 5 per week but our coverage area is
more limited than their's. They are also charging $300 - $500 in upfront
installation/CPE fees compared to our $99 upfront fee. When their
company was planning expansion into our area, my partner and I hosted
a conference call with their two owners and they told us point blank,
people will pay us whatever we charge them because we are their
only option. This is just the opposite of how my partner and I approach
our WISP, we did not get into this business to get rich, we simply wanted
to offer a better service (for less) to the communities we service. We're
not the type of company who's strategy involves taking advantage of
people but if someone wants something (a site survey for instance), they
need to pay for it because it's the fair thing to do being that it does 
require

time, labor and other expenses. For now, we're just going to enforce the
site survey fee for those who are disrespectful of our resources (i.e. 
those
who decline our service following a successful site survey). Time will 
tell.



Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - 
From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)


It seems more likely that Blair is disqualifying his prospects before
spending money on a site survey.

One of the best sales skills is the ability to DQ prospects early - it
saves the sales guy and the company time and money.

If the site survey for the prospect comes back positive, what

Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)

2006-10-10 Thread Brian Rohrbacher

inline

Tom DeReggi wrote:

Its not that I don't understand or agree with your point of view, but 
I just question wether it will work based on unecessarily detering 
customers. Its hard enough getting someone willing to try wireless in 
the first place, and now you are saying that the odds of getting it 
aren't good enough to to risk your $29.  If trying to get their 
business isn't worth $29 to you, They may not even bother to subscribe.


On the flip side, if your business is like mine, and you focus on 
Business and sure things, the lost residential business may not be a 
bad thing, if it just isn;t financially viable to go after with money 
at risk.


It also could end up working th opposite. You are establishing value 
for your time. Possibly preventing other from abusing/taking up your 
time in the future. And when you set a value, people recognize it as 
more valuable and want it more.


It goes back to my puppy story. I put an add for free puppies in the 
paper, and nobody called. The next week I put an add Puppies only $25, 
and sold every one of them the first day the paper was out.



We've done the puppy thing and it works.
My grandpa used to sell used cars.  If a car wouldn't sell, he'd raise 
the price and it would sell.


I'm interested in seeing how it plays out for you over time, charging 
the survey fee. Let us know as the plan progresses.


PS. This is also a factor of wether you are in a underserved or served 
area. There is more demand in an underserved area. In my urban market, 
everyone offers everything for free.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: KyWiFi LLC 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)



I think those who decline our service following a successful site
survey are just tire kickers. They almost always tell our subcontractor
that they will speak to the wife and get back to us or they were
merely wanting to see if our service was available in their area.
People of this stature waste our time and resources, they are the ones
that we need to avoid from the get go in order to optimize our company's
efficiency. I do not feel that we should punish ethical customers by
charging an inflated installation fee to subsidize our site survey 
expenses

incurred by the tire kickers. We've decided that we are going to require
a signed site survey request form with payment authorization prior to 
the

site survey being performed and those who decline service following a
successful site survey WILL BE billed the applicable site survey fee. If
they are serious about obtaining our service, they will find a fax 
machine

or scanner to return the signed document to our company. Feel free to
follow-up with me in a couple of months to see how this new policy is
working for our WISP. BTW, the other WISP in our area is charging
$75 - $150 for a site survey fee. The word on the street is that they 
are
adding 4 - 5 new subscribers per day but I find this very hard to 
believe

because we are only adding 4 - 5 per week but our coverage area is
more limited than their's. They are also charging $300 - $500 in upfront
installation/CPE fees compared to our $99 upfront fee. When their
company was planning expansion into our area, my partner and I hosted
a conference call with their two owners and they told us point blank,
people will pay us whatever we charge them because we are their
only option. This is just the opposite of how my partner and I approach
our WISP, we did not get into this business to get rich, we simply 
wanted
to offer a better service (for less) to the communities we service. 
We're

not the type of company who's strategy involves taking advantage of
people but if someone wants something (a site survey for instance), they
need to pay for it because it's the fair thing to do being that it 
does require

time, labor and other expenses. For now, we're just going to enforce the
site survey fee for those who are disrespectful of our resources 
(i.e. those
who decline our service following a successful site survey). Time 
will tell.



Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)


It seems more likely that Blair is disqualifying his prospects before
spending money on a site survey.

One

Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)

2006-10-10 Thread KyWiFi LLC
If it deters a tire kicker from wasting our company's resources,
then I will be very happy. I don't believe it will deter anyone
who is seriously wanting our broadband service as they will
not be charged a site survey fee unless they decline service
following a successful site survey at their location.

If I forget, will someone please remind me in a couple months
so I can report back whether or not our new site survey policy
is successful or not. Sure will be nice if it works like your puppy
story. ;-)


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - 
From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)


Its not that I don't understand or agree with your point of view, but I just 
question wether it will work based on unecessarily detering customers. Its 
hard enough getting someone willing to try wireless in the first place, and 
now you are saying that the odds of getting it aren't good enough to to risk 
your $29.  If trying to get their business isn't worth $29 to you, They may 
not even bother to subscribe.

On the flip side, if your business is like mine, and you focus on Business 
and sure things, the lost residential business may not be a bad thing, if it 
just isn;t financially viable to go after with money at risk.

It also could end up working th opposite. You are establishing value for 
your time. Possibly preventing other from abusing/taking up your time in the 
future. And when you set a value, people recognize it as more valuable and 
want it more.

It goes back to my puppy story. I put an add for free puppies in the paper, 
and nobody called. The next week I put an add Puppies only $25, and sold 
every one of them the first day the paper was out.

I'm interested in seeing how it plays out for you over time, charging the 
survey fee. Let us know as the plan progresses.

PS. This is also a factor of wether you are in a underserved or served area. 
There is more demand in an underserved area. In my urban market, everyone 
offers everything for free.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: KyWiFi LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)


I think those who decline our service following a successful site
 survey are just tire kickers. They almost always tell our subcontractor
 that they will speak to the wife and get back to us or they were
 merely wanting to see if our service was available in their area.
 People of this stature waste our time and resources, they are the ones
 that we need to avoid from the get go in order to optimize our company's
 efficiency. I do not feel that we should punish ethical customers by
 charging an inflated installation fee to subsidize our site survey 
 expenses
 incurred by the tire kickers. We've decided that we are going to require
 a signed site survey request form with payment authorization prior to the
 site survey being performed and those who decline service following a
 successful site survey WILL BE billed the applicable site survey fee. If
 they are serious about obtaining our service, they will find a fax machine
 or scanner to return the signed document to our company. Feel free to
 follow-up with me in a couple of months to see how this new policy is
 working for our WISP. BTW, the other WISP in our area is charging
 $75 - $150 for a site survey fee. The word on the street is that they are
 adding 4 - 5 new subscribers per day but I find this very hard to believe
 because we are only adding 4 - 5 per week but our coverage area is
 more limited than their's. They are also charging $300 - $500 in upfront
 installation/CPE fees compared to our $99 upfront fee. When their
 company was planning expansion into our area, my partner and I hosted
 a conference call with their two owners and they told us point blank,
 people will pay us whatever we charge them because we are their
 only option. This is just the opposite of how my partner and I approach
 our WISP, we did not get into this business to get rich, we simply wanted
 to offer a better service (for less) to the communities we service. We're
 not the type of company who's strategy involves taking advantage of
 people but if someone wants something (a site survey for instance), they
 need to pay for it because it's the fair thing to do being that it does

Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)

2006-10-09 Thread Peter R.
It seems more likely that Blair is disqualifying his prospects before 
spending money on a site survey.


One of the best sales skills is the ability to DQ prospects early - it 
saves the sales guy and the company time and money.


If the site survey for the prospect comes back positive, what are the 
objections?

Are you creating a response for each objection?

How are you presenting the site survey results?
Is it an enthusiastic delivery like The Irrestible Offer or is it flat?
Wonderful! Right now you have a chance to get our broadband service. 
In just 2 days we will have you surfing the web on a safe, reliable and 
fast platform.


- Peter
RAD-INFO, Inc.

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Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-10-07 Thread KyWiFi LLC
We pay $10 - $30 to a sub-contractor to do a site survey and
we usually have 5 - 10 of them a week. This has been an expense
we've absorbed but starting in the next few days, we will be
passing this fee along to the person requesting the site survey.
If their site survey is successful and they purchase our service,
their site survey will be free. If their site survey is unsuccessful
or if it is successful but they do not purchase our service within
(3) business days following us notifying them that the site survey
was successful, then their credit card will be billed a $29.99 site
survey fee. We will be having them submit their credit card info
at the time of their site survey request so we have it on file prior
to their site survey. This will also streamline things because the
subcontractor will no longer need to ask them for their credit card
info on the day of their installation.

How are other list members handling site survey related expenses?

BTW, we keep a database of street addresses which show if
its site survey was successful or not. This allows us to avoid
site surveys in the same area from time to time depending on the
terrain.

While we're on the topic of site surveys, has anyone heard or seen
of an affordable handheld device that can be attached to an antenna
and then display the SSID and signal/noise readings? I know
bvsystems.com has some similar devices but they are way over
priced IMHO. I purchased an iPAQ and PCMCIA expansion
sleeve but every Orinoco Gold card I have locks up in it after a
few minutes so it is not what I would call reliable. I wonder if you
can purchase a PCMCIA expansion sleeve for the Dell Axim PDA?
I really think it would perform better than the iPAQ if this is possible.


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - 
From: Mark Nash - Lists [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations


I've done all of our installations so things have been easy, but I'm moving 
toward 
contractor installs.  As it has been, I have not done site surveys...I go out 
to install 
and if I don't get the connection I walk away and the customer doesn't owe us 
anything. 
So I'm out a little time and a slot on the schedule...big deal.

With contractor installs, how do people handle this?  Do we do site surveys 
prior to the 
installation?  I know that there are owners out there that own remote systems 
so you must 
pay something for site surveys or pay something for unsuccessful 
installations???

Mark Nash
Network Engineer
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax

  - Original Message - 
  From: Rick Smith
  To: 'WISPA General List'
  Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 9:57 AM
  Subject: RE: [WISPA] Outsourced installations


  right – but I hand them the EQ, name and number and let them schedule their 
installs.



  They pay me $10 back if I hear from a customer that they didn’t make an 
appointment, and 
they credit me the install if I

  get a complaint serious enough from the customer.. J



  R





  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete 
Davis
  Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 12:15 PM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations



  We actually did that for a while. It works out well, except that a contractor 
must 
provide his own tools and manage his own time. In other words, I cannot promise 
that he 
will be at Mr Smith's house at 2:00p on Wednesday. He has to be the one to 
schedule 
installs. It gets real fuzzy there.

  pd

  Rick Smith wrote:

  the answer is hire a company to do installations for you.  if your employee 
just happens 
to own that company, well, oh well…



  It’s all invoices.   Pay them as normal, and you don’t need to worry about 
taxes, etc. 
Your employee (or sub’d company J…) does that on their own.



  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom 
DeReggi
  Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 5:28 PM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations



  Where the problems come in are, that paying someone peice rate does NOT 
NEGATE the 
requirement to pay overtime for Employees.

  Nor does it Negate the IRS's definition of what an EMployee is and a 
contractor is.



  You have to restrict employees to work less than 40 hours or prepair to pay 
time and a 
half for your peice rate.  If an employee works 60 hours, and completes three 
installs

Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-10-07 Thread Travis Johnson

Hi,

We stopped doing site surveys almost 4 years ago. We were spending way 
too much time and having to send someone to the location twice seemed 
like a waste. (some of our coverage area is a 2 hour drive each way)


We now have coverage maps and tell people we no longer do site surveys. 
Based on your location, you should be able to get a signal. If you want 
to sign up for service, we'll send a tech out to perform the 
installation. If they can not get a signal while there, we don't charge 
you anything. That way, they are locked in to buying the service if we 
can get it to work, and you aren't wasting your time.


Travis
Microserv

KyWiFi LLC wrote:


We pay $10 - $30 to a sub-contractor to do a site survey and
we usually have 5 - 10 of them a week. This has been an expense
we've absorbed but starting in the next few days, we will be
passing this fee along to the person requesting the site survey.
If their site survey is successful and they purchase our service,
their site survey will be free. If their site survey is unsuccessful
or if it is successful but they do not purchase our service within
(3) business days following us notifying them that the site survey
was successful, then their credit card will be billed a $29.99 site
survey fee. We will be having them submit their credit card info
at the time of their site survey request so we have it on file prior
to their site survey. This will also streamline things because the
subcontractor will no longer need to ask them for their credit card
info on the day of their installation.

How are other list members handling site survey related expenses?

BTW, we keep a database of street addresses which show if
its site survey was successful or not. This allows us to avoid
site surveys in the same area from time to time depending on the
terrain.

While we're on the topic of site surveys, has anyone heard or seen
of an affordable handheld device that can be attached to an antenna
and then display the SSID and signal/noise readings? I know
bvsystems.com has some similar devices but they are way over
priced IMHO. I purchased an iPAQ and PCMCIA expansion
sleeve but every Orinoco Gold card I have locks up in it after a
few minutes so it is not what I would call reliable. I wonder if you
can purchase a PCMCIA expansion sleeve for the Dell Axim PDA?
I really think it would perform better than the iPAQ if this is possible.


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - 
From: Mark Nash - Lists [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations


I've done all of our installations so things have been easy, but I'm moving toward 
contractor installs.  As it has been, I have not done site surveys...I go out to install 
and if I don't get the connection I walk away and the customer doesn't owe us anything. 
So I'm out a little time and a slot on the schedule...big deal.


With contractor installs, how do people handle this?  Do we do site surveys prior to the 
installation?  I know that there are owners out there that own remote systems so you must 
pay something for site surveys or pay something for unsuccessful installations???


Mark Nash
Network Engineer
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax

 - Original Message - 
 From: Rick Smith

 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 9:57 AM
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Outsourced installations


 right – but I hand them the EQ, name and number and let them schedule their 
installs.



 They pay me $10 back if I hear from a customer that they didn’t make an appointment, and 
they credit me the install if I


 get a complaint serious enough from the customer.. J



 R





 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete 
Davis

 Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 12:15 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations



 We actually did that for a while. It works out well, except that a contractor must 
provide his own tools and manage his own time. In other words, I cannot promise that he 
will be at Mr Smith's house at 2:00p on Wednesday. He has to be the one to schedule 
installs. It gets real fuzzy there.


 pd

 Rick Smith wrote:

 the answer is hire a company to do installations for you.  if your employee just happens 
to own that company, well, oh well…




 It’s all invoices.   Pay them as normal, and you don’t need to worry about taxes, etc. 
Your employee

Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-10-06 Thread Mark Nash - Lists



I've done all of our installations so things have 
been easy, but I'm moving toward contractor installs. As it has been, I 
have not done site surveys...I go out to install and if I don't get the 
connection I walk away and the customer doesn't owe us anything. So I'm 
out a little time and a slot on the schedule...big deal. 

With contractor installs, how dopeople handle 
this? Do we do site surveys prior to the installation? I know that 
there are owners out there that own remote systems so you must pay something for 
site surveys or pay something for unsuccessful installations???
Mark NashNetwork EngineerUnwiredOnline.Net350 Holly 
StreetJunction City, OR 97448http://www.uwol.net541-998-541-998-5599 
fax

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Rick Smith 
  To: 'WISPA General List' 
  Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 9:57 
  AM
  Subject: RE: [WISPA] Outsourced 
  installations
  
  
  right 
  – but I hand them the EQ, name and number and let them schedule their 
  installs.
  
  They 
  pay me $10 back if I hear from a customer that they didn’t make an 
  appointment, and they credit me the install if I 
  get 
  a complaint serious enough from the customer.. J
  
  R
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete 
  DavisSent: Monday, September 25, 2006 12:15 PMTo: WISPA 
  General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced 
  installations
  
  We actually did that for a 
  while. It works out well, except that a contractor must provide his own tools 
  and manage his own time. In other words, I cannot promise that he will be at 
  Mr Smith's house at 2:00p on Wednesday. He has to be the one to schedule 
  installs. It gets real fuzzy there. pdRick Smith wrote: 
  
  the 
  answer is hire a company to do installations for you. if your employee 
  just happens to own that company, well, oh well…
  
  It’s 
  all invoices. Pay them as normal, and you don’t need to worry 
  about taxes, etc. Your employee (or sub’d company J…) 
  does that on their own.
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  On Behalf Of Tom DeReggiSent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 
  5:28 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] 
  Outsourced installations
  
  
  Where the problems 
  come in are, that paying someone peice rate does NOT NEGATE the requirement to 
  pay overtime for Employees.
  
  Nor does it Negate 
  the IRS's definition of what an EMployee is and a contractor 
  is.
  
  
  
  You have to 
  restrict employees to work less than 40 hours or prepair to pay time and a 
  half for your peice rate. If an employee works 60 hours, and completes 
  three installs at in that week, at a peice rate of $100 each you would pay the 
  employee.
  
  
  
  $300 / 60 hours = 
  $5 per hour. Overtime (20 hours)would be paid on $100 of the pay. 
  Addtional over time pay (half time) would be $50. 
  
  
  Total paycheck 
  would be $350. 
  
  
  
  If it took them 60 
  hours to just get two installs done, they would be less than the minimum 
  wage. 
  
  
  
  So there are two 
  requirements 
  
  1) You must have a 
  minimumpay, calcuated on the total number of hours that THEY record 
  working. 
  
  2) Must figure out 
  someonesaverage hourly rate on a weekly basis. This complicates the 
  accounting duties, and forces the account to custom pay each employee each 
  month.
  
  
  
  Two problems that 
  can occur are...
  
  
  
  What if you want to 
  pay an employee well, because they are really doing a good job, and then one 
  week they decide to go really slow?You end up paying someone a 
  huge amount of overtime unexpectedly! 
  
  
  
  What we learned was 
  that aemployee's record of stated hours worked was accurate. So 
  paying peice rate does NOT NEGATE the need of the management to record 
  and manage the hours worked by an employee. We learned, that an Employer 
  is NOT responsible for their productivity the employer is.So if 
  they go to the movies all day without you knowing it,and work late to 
  get the job done, you still owe them the overtime, regardless of what flat 
  peice rate you negotiated.
  
  
  
  These are some of 
  the reasons that we chose to put employees on Salary instead of Piece 
  rate. We live in a sue happy county. We just plan on everyone taking way 
  to long for an install, and put very low expectations on what they are 
  expected to accomplish, and we save onmanagement and accounting 
  salaries.If they get done early, we have them do other 
  things. I won't talk about what happens if they don't get their work 
  done, thats handled on a case by case basis. So we chose salary for 
  ease. IF they consistently do well, they get a higher salary and stock 
  options. It creates a team effort, not a what do I get 
  mentality.
  
  
  
  I don't know if 
  that is the right decission or not, it really takes our guys a long time to 
  get things done. I often consider whether I should migrate

Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-28 Thread John J. Thomas
inline...

-Original Message-
From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 11:22 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

Until, the IRS decides that they can not be considered a contractor, because 
they do not do work for other people, and are not solely in control of how a 
job gets done.
To do it legal, its pretty important that installer's company becomes 
Incorporated or LLC.  Once they do that, its hard to keep control of what they 
do, and you loose benefits of Employing.
Benefits of employing, does that exist ? :-)

I guess the truth is, can you find installers willing to give up benefits of 
being an employee, and still be available when you need them like an employee?

 If you pay them well and give them enough work so they don't starve

John


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


  - Original Message -
  From: Rick Smith
  To: 'WISPA General List'
  Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 7:27 PM
  Subject: RE: [WISPA] Outsourced installations


  the answer is hire a company to do installations for you.  if your employee 
 just happens to own that company, well, oh well…



  It’s all invoices.   Pay them as normal, and you don’t need to worry about 
 taxes, etc.  Your employee (or sub’d company J…) does that on their own.



  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
  Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 5:28 PM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations



  Where the problems come in are, that paying someone peice rate does NOT 
 NEGATE the requirement to pay overtime for Employees.

  Nor does it Negate the IRS's definition of what an EMployee is and a 
 contractor is.



  You have to restrict employees to work less than 40 hours or prepair to pay 
 time and a half for your peice rate.  If an employee works 60 hours, and 
 completes three installs at in that week, at a peice rate of $100 each you 
 would pay the employee.



  $300 / 60 hours = $5 per hour. Overtime (20 hours) would be paid on $100 of 
 the pay.  Addtional over time pay (half time) would be $50.

  Total paycheck would be $350.



  If it took them 60 hours to just get two installs done, they would be less 
 than the minimum wage.



  So there are two requirements

  1) You must have a minimum pay, calcuated on the total number of hours that 
 THEY record working.

  2) Must figure out someones average hourly rate on a weekly basis. This 
 complicates the accounting duties, and forces the account to custom pay each 
 employee each month.



  Two problems that can occur are...



  What if you want to pay an employee well, because they are really doing a 
 good job, and then one week they decide to go really slow?  You end up paying 
 someone a huge amount of overtime unexpectedly!



  What we learned was that a employee's record of stated hours worked was 
 accurate.  So paying peice rate does NOT NEGATE the need of the management to 
 record  and manage the hours worked by an employee.  We learned, that an 
 Employer is NOT responsible for their productivity the employer is.  So if 
 they go to the movies all day without you knowing it, and work late to get 
 the job done, you still owe them the overtime, regardless of what flat peice 
 rate you negotiated.



  These are some of the reasons that we chose to put employees on Salary 
 instead of Piece rate.  We live in a sue happy county. We just plan on 
 everyone taking way to long for an install, and put very low expectations on 
 what they are expected to accomplish, and we save on management and 
 accounting salaries.  If they get done early, we have them do other things.  
 I won't talk about what happens if they don't get their work done, thats 
 handled on a case by case basis.  So we chose salary for ease.  IF they 
 consistently do well, they get a higher salary and stock options.  It creates 
 a team effort, not a what do I get mentality.



  I don't know if that is the right decission or not, it really takes our guys 
 a long time to get things done. I often consider whether I should migrate 
 back to peice rate.





  Tom DeReggi
  RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
  IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband





- Original Message -

From: Pete Davis

To: WISPA General List

Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 9:10 AM

Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations



According to the DOL (department of Labor) an employee can be paid by the 
 hour or for piece work (by the job)

from http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/minwage.htm

The Act requires employers of covered employees who are not otherwise 
 exempt to pay these employees a minimum wage of not less than $5.15 an hour 
 as of September 1, 1997. Youths under 20 years of age may be paid a minimum 
 wage of not less than $4.25 an hour during the first 90 consecutive calendar 
 days

Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-25 Thread Pete Davis




We actually did that for a while. It works out well, except that a
contractor must provide his own tools and manage his own time. In other
words, I cannot promise that he will be at Mr Smith's house at 2:00p on
Wednesday. He has to be the one to schedule installs. It gets real
fuzzy there. 

pd

Rick Smith wrote:

  
  

  
  
  the
answer is hire a company to do installations for you.  if
your employee just happens to own that company, well, oh well…
   
  It’s
all invoices.   Pay them as normal, and you don’t need to
worry about taxes, etc.  Your employee (or sub’d company J…)
does
that on their own.
   
  
  
  From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Tom
DeReggi
  Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 5:28 PM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
  
  
   
  
  Where the
problems come in are, that paying
someone peice rate does NOT NEGATE the requirement to pay overtime for
Employees.
  
  
  Nor does
it Negate the IRS's definition of
what an EMployee is and a contractor is.
  
  
   
  
  
  You have
to restrict employees to work less
than 40 hours or prepair to pay time and a half for your peice rate. 
If
an employee works 60 hours, and completes three installs at in that
week, at a
peice rate of $100 each you would pay the employee.
  
  
   
  
  
  $300 / 60
hours = $5 per hour. Overtime (20
hours) would be paid on $100 of the pay.  Addtional over time pay
(half time) would be $50.  
  
  
  Total
paycheck would be $350.   
  
  
   
  
  
  If it took
them 60 hours to just get two
installs done, they would be less than the minimum wage.  
  
  
   
  
  
  So there
are two requirements 
  
  
  1) You
must have a minimum pay,
calcuated on the total number of hours that THEY record working. 
  
  
  2) Must
figure out someones average
hourly rate on a weekly basis. This complicates the accounting duties,
and
forces the account to custom pay each employee each month.
  
  
   
  
  
  Two
problems that can occur are...
  
  
   
  
  
  What if
you want to pay an employee well,
because they are really doing a good job, and then one week they decide
to go
really slow?  You end up paying someone a huge amount of overtime
unexpectedly!  
  
  
   
  
  
  What we
learned was that a employee's
record of stated hours worked was accurate.  So paying peice rate does
NOT
NEGATE the need of the management to record  and manage the hours
worked
by an employee.  We learned, that an Employer is NOT responsible for
their
productivity the employer is.  So if they go to the movies all day
without you knowing it, and work late to get the job done, you still
owe
them the overtime, regardless of what flat peice rate you negotiated.  
  
  
   
  
  
  These are
some of the reasons that we chose
to put employees on Salary instead of Piece rate.  We live in a sue
happy
county. We just plan on everyone taking way to long for an install, and
put
very low expectations on what they are expected to accomplish, and we
save
on management and accounting salaries.  If they get done early,
we have them do other things.  I won't talk about what happens if they
don't get their work done, thats handled on a case by case basis.  So
we
chose salary for ease.  IF they consistently do well, they get a higher
salary and stock options.  It creates a team effort, not a what do I
get
mentality.
  
  
   
  
  
  I don't
know if that is the right decission
or not, it really takes our guys a long time to get things done. I
often consider
whether I should migrate back to peice rate.  
  
  
   
  
  
   
  
  
  Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
  
  
   
  
  
   
  
  

-
Original Message - 


From: Pete Davis



To: WISPA
General List 


Sent: Saturday,
September 23, 2006 9:10 AM


Subject: Re:
[WISPA] Outsourced installations


 

According
to the DOL (department of Labor) an employee
can be paid by the hour or for piece work (by the job)

from http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/minwage.htm
The
Act requires employers of covered employees who are not otherwise
exempt to pay
these employees a minimum wage of not less than $5.15 an hour as of
September
1, 1997. Youths under 20 years of age may be paid a minimum wage of not
less
than $4.25 an hour during the first 90 consecutive calendar days of
employment
with an employer. Employers may not displace any employee to hire
someone at
the youth minimum wage.
Employers
may pay employees on a piece‑rate basis, as long as they receive at
least
the equivalent of the required minimum hourly wage rate. Employers of
tipped
employees (i.e., those who customarily and regularly receive more than
$30 a
month in tips) may consider such tips as part of their wages, but
employers
must pay a direct wage of at least $2.13 per hour if they claim a tip
credit.
They must also meet certain other conditions.
I

Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-25 Thread Tom DeReggi



Until, the IRS decides that they can not be 
considered a contractor, because they do not do work for other people, and are 
not solely in control of how a job gets done.
To do it legal, its pretty important that 
installer's companybecomes Incorporated or LLC. Once they do that, 
its hard to keep control of what they do, and you loose benefits of 
Employing.
Benefits of employing,does that exist? 
:-)

I guess the truth is, can you find installers 
willing to give up benefits of being an employee, and still be available when 
you need them like an employee?

Tom DeReggiRapidDSL  Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless 
Broadband



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Rick Smith 
  To: 'WISPA General List' 
  Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 7:27 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [WISPA] Outsourced 
  installations
  
  
  the 
  answer is hire a company to do installations for you. if your employee 
  just happens to own that company, well, oh well…
  
  It’s 
  all invoices. Pay them as normal, and you don’t need to worry 
  about taxes, etc. Your employee (or sub’d company J…) 
  does that on their own.
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom 
  DeReggiSent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 5:28 PMTo: WISPA 
  General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced 
  installations
  
  
  Where the problems 
  come in are, that paying someone peice rate does NOT NEGATE the requirement to 
  pay overtime for Employees.
  
  Nor does it Negate 
  the IRS's definition of what an EMployee is and a contractor 
  is.
  
  
  
  You have to 
  restrict employees to work less than 40 hours or prepair to pay time and a 
  half for your peice rate. If an employee works 60 hours, and completes 
  three installs at in that week, at a peice rate of $100 each you would pay the 
  employee.
  
  
  
  $300 / 60 hours = 
  $5 per hour. Overtime (20 hours)would be paid on $100 of the pay. 
  Addtional over time pay (half time) would be $50. 
  
  
  Total paycheck 
  would be $350. 
  
  
  
  If it took them 60 
  hours to just get two installs done, they would be less than the minimum 
  wage. 
  
  
  
  So there are two 
  requirements 
  
  1) You must have a 
  minimumpay, calcuated on the total number of hours that THEY record 
  working. 
  
  2) Must figure out 
  someonesaverage hourly rate on a weekly basis. This complicates the 
  accounting duties, and forces the account to custom pay each employee each 
  month.
  
  
  
  Two problems that 
  can occur are...
  
  
  
  What if you want to 
  pay an employee well, because they are really doing a good job, and then one 
  week they decide to go really slow?You end up paying someone a 
  huge amount of overtime unexpectedly! 
  
  
  
  What we learned was 
  that aemployee's record of stated hours worked was accurate. So 
  paying peice rate does NOT NEGATE the need of the management to record 
  and manage the hours worked by an employee. We learned, that an Employer 
  is NOT responsible for their productivity the employer is.So if 
  they go to the movies all day without you knowing it,and work late to 
  get the job done, you still owe them the overtime, regardless of what flat 
  peice rate you negotiated.
  
  
  
  These are some of 
  the reasons that we chose to put employees on Salary instead of Piece 
  rate. We live in a sue happy county. We just plan on everyone taking way 
  to long for an install, and put very low expectations on what they are 
  expected to accomplish, and we save onmanagement and accounting 
  salaries.If they get done early, we have them do other 
  things. I won't talk about what happens if they don't get their work 
  done, thats handled on a case by case basis. So we chose salary for 
  ease. IF they consistently do well, they get a higher salary and stock 
  options. It creates a team effort, not a what do I get 
  mentality.
  
  
  
  I don't know if 
  that is the right decission or not, it really takes our guys a long time to 
  get things done. I often consider whether I should migrate back to peice 
  rate. 
  
  
  
  
  
  Tom DeReggiRapidDSL  
  Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
  
  
  
  
  

- Original 
Message - 

From: Pete Davis 


To: WISPA General 
List 

Sent: Saturday, 
September 23, 2006 9:10 AM

Subject: Re: [WISPA] 
Outsourced installations


According 
to the DOL (department of Labor) an employee can be paid by the hour or for 
piece work (by the job)from http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/minwage.htm
The Act requires employers of 
covered employees who are not otherwise exempt to pay these employees a 
minimum wage of not less than $5.15 an hour as of September 1, 1997. Youths 
under 20 years of age may be paid a minimum wage of not less than $4.25 an 
hour during the first 90 consecutive calendar days of employment with an 
employer

RE: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-25 Thread Rick Smith








right – but I hand them the EQ, name and number and let them
schedule their installs.



They pay me $10 back if I hear from a customer that they didn’t
make an appointment, and they credit me the install if I 

get a complaint serious enough from the customer.. J



R









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete
Davis
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 12:15 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations







We actually did that for a while.
It works out well, except that a contractor must provide his own tools and
manage his own time. In other words, I cannot promise that he will be at Mr
Smith's house at 2:00p on Wednesday. He has to be the one to schedule installs.
It gets real fuzzy there. 

pd

Rick Smith wrote: 

the answer is hire a company
to do installations for you. if your employee just happens to own that
company, well, oh well…



It’s all
invoices. Pay them as normal, and you don’t need to worry about
taxes, etc. Your employee (or sub’d company J…)
does that on their own.







From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 5:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations









Where the problems come in are, that paying
someone peice rate does NOT NEGATE the requirement to pay overtime for Employees.





Nor does it Negate the IRS's definition of
what an EMployee is and a contractor is.











You have to restrict employees to work less
than 40 hours or prepair to pay time and a half for your peice rate. If
an employee works 60 hours, and completes three installs at in that week, at a
peice rate of $100 each you would pay the employee.











$300 / 60 hours = $5 per hour. Overtime (20
hours)would be paid on $100 of the pay. Addtional over time pay
(half time) would be $50. 





Total paycheck would be $350. 











If it took them 60 hours to just get two
installs done, they would be less than the minimum wage. 











So there are two requirements 





1) You must have a minimumpay,
calcuated on the total number of hours that THEY record working. 





2) Must figure out someonesaverage
hourly rate on a weekly basis. This complicates the accounting duties, and
forces the account to custom pay each employee each month.











Two problems that can occur are...











What if you want to pay an employee well,
because they are really doing a good job, and then one week they decide to go
really slow?You end up paying someone a huge amount of overtime
unexpectedly! 











What we learned was that aemployee's
record of stated hours worked was accurate. So paying peice rate does NOT
NEGATE the need of the management to record and manage the hours worked
by an employee. We learned, that an Employer is NOT responsible for their
productivity the employer is.So if they go to the movies all day
without you knowing it,and work late to get the job done, you still owe
them the overtime, regardless of what flat peice rate you negotiated.











These are some of the reasons that we chose
to put employees on Salary instead of Piece rate. We live in a sue happy
county. We just plan on everyone taking way to long for an install, and put
very low expectations on what they are expected to accomplish, and we save
onmanagement and accounting salaries.If they get done early,
we have them do other things. I won't talk about what happens if they don't
get their work done, thats handled on a case by case basis. So we chose
salary for ease. IF they consistently do well, they get a higher salary
and stock options. It creates a team effort, not a what do I get
mentality.











I don't know if that is the right decission
or not, it really takes our guys a long time to get things done. I often
consider whether I should migrate back to peice rate. 

















Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband



















- Original Message - 





From: Pete Davis 





To: WISPA General List 





Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 9:10 AM





Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations









According to the DOL (department of Labor) an
employee can be paid by the hour or for piece work (by the job)

from http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/minwage.htm

The
Act requires employers of covered employees who are not otherwise exempt to pay
these employees a minimum wage of not less than $5.15 an hour as of September
1, 1997. Youths under 20 years of age may be paid a minimum wage of not less
than $4.25 an hour during the first 90 consecutive calendar days of employment
with an employer. Employers may not displace any employee to hire someone at
the youth minimum wage.

Employers
may pay employees on a piece‑rate basis, as long as they receive at least the equivalent
of the required minimum hourly wage rate. Employers of tipped employees (i.e.,
those who customarily

RE: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-24 Thread Rick Smith









the answer is hire a company to do installations for you.  if
your employee just happens to own that company, well, oh well…



It’s all invoices.   Pay them as normal, and you don’t need to
worry about taxes, etc.  Your employee (or sub’d company J…) does
that on their own.







From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom
DeReggi
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 5:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations









Where the problems come in are, that paying
someone peice rate does NOT NEGATE the requirement to pay overtime for
Employees.





Nor does it Negate the IRS's definition of
what an EMployee is and a contractor is.











You have to restrict employees to work less
than 40 hours or prepair to pay time and a half for your peice rate. If
an employee works 60 hours, and completes three installs at in that week, at a
peice rate of $100 each you would pay the employee.











$300 / 60 hours = $5 per hour. Overtime (20
hours)would be paid on $100 of the pay. Addtional over time pay
(half time) would be $50. 





Total paycheck would be $350. 











If it took them 60 hours to just get two
installs done, they would be less than the minimum wage. 











So there are two requirements 





1) You must have a minimumpay,
calcuated on the total number of hours that THEY record working. 





2) Must figure out someonesaverage
hourly rate on a weekly basis. This complicates the accounting duties, and
forces the account to custom pay each employee each month.











Two problems that can occur are...











What if you want to pay an employee well,
because they are really doing a good job, and then one week they decide to go
really slow?You end up paying someone a huge amount of overtime
unexpectedly! 











What we learned was that aemployee's
record of stated hours worked was accurate. So paying peice rate does NOT
NEGATE the need of the management to record and manage the hours worked
by an employee. We learned, that an Employer is NOT responsible for their
productivity the employer is.So if they go to the movies all day
without you knowing it,and work late to get the job done, you still owe
them the overtime, regardless of what flat peice rate you negotiated.











These are some of the reasons that we chose
to put employees on Salary instead of Piece rate. We live in a sue happy
county. We just plan on everyone taking way to long for an install, and put
very low expectations on what they are expected to accomplish, and we save
onmanagement and accounting salaries.If they get done early,
we have them do other things. I won't talk about what happens if they
don't get their work done, thats handled on a case by case basis. So we
chose salary for ease. IF they consistently do well, they get a higher
salary and stock options. It creates a team effort, not a what do I get
mentality.











I don't know if that is the right decission
or not, it really takes our guys a long time to get things done. I often consider
whether I should migrate back to peice rate. 

















Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband



















- Original Message - 





From: Pete Davis 





To: WISPA General List 





Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 9:10 AM





Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations









According to the DOL (department of Labor) an employee
can be paid by the hour or for piece work (by the job)

from http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/minwage.htm

The
Act requires employers of covered employees who are not otherwise exempt to pay
these employees a minimum wage of not less than $5.15 an hour as of September
1, 1997. Youths under 20 years of age may be paid a minimum wage of not less
than $4.25 an hour during the first 90 consecutive calendar days of employment
with an employer. Employers may not displace any employee to hire someone at
the youth minimum wage.

Employers
may pay employees on a piece‑rate basis, as long as they receive at least
the equivalent of the required minimum hourly wage rate. Employers of tipped
employees (i.e., those who customarily and regularly receive more than $30 a
month in tips) may consider such tips as part of their wages, but employers
must pay a direct wage of at least $2.13 per hour if they claim a tip credit.
They must also meet certain other conditions.

I suppose that if these guys manage
to spend over 20 (10 hrs each) hrs on every install for the pay period, then I
would have to adjust their pay to bring them up to minimum wage. That hasn't
been a problem. They average about 3 hrs/install including drive time. This is
about twice as fast as installs got done back when they were paid hourly. This
is a win/win/win solution as I see it. The employees like the method for making
extra money. The customers like the techs getting in and out in a reasonable
time. I like getting 2 or 3 installs/day

Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-23 Thread Pete Davis




According to the DOL (department of Labor) an employee can be paid by
the hour or for piece work (by the job)

from http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/minwage.htm

The Act requires employers of
covered employees who are not otherwise exempt to pay these employees a
minimum wage of not less than $5.15 an hour as of September 1, 1997.
Youths under 20 years of age may be paid a minimum wage of not less
than $4.25 an hour during the first 90 consecutive calendar days of
employment with an employer. Employers may not displace any employee to
hire someone at the youth minimum wage.
Employers may pay employees on
a piecerate basis, as long as they receive at least the equivalent of
the required minimum hourly wage rate. Employers of tipped employees
(i.e., those who customarily and regularly receive more than $30 a
month in tips) may consider such tips as part of their wages, but
employers must pay a direct wage of at least $2.13 per hour if they
claim a tip credit. They must also meet certain other conditions.
I suppose that if these guys manage to spend over 20 (10 hrs each) hrs
on every install for the pay period, then I would have to adjust their
pay to bring them up to minimum wage. That hasn't been a problem. They
average about 3 hrs/install including drive time. This is about twice
as fast as installs got done back when they were paid hourly. This is a
win/win/win solution as I see it. The employees like the method for
making extra money. The customers like the techs getting in and out in
a reasonable time. I like getting 2 or 3 installs/day vs 1/day like we
got back when techs got paid per hour. 

We treat their install pay just like regular income. We withhold the
withholdings, deal with the social security, etc. 

Lincoln Welder mfg company in Ohio pays EVERY employee piece-wage only.
You might get $4/ea to wind motors, $2/ea to install a switch, $7/ea to
screw wheels on, $1.50 to inspect parts, etc. 
They have withholdings, pay social security, etc. They even clock
in/out, to insure to OSHA that no employee is working more than 120
hrs/week but this method has been in place for years and works very
well. The employees love it and the unions hate it. It insures that the
new guy in training gets up to speed in a reasonable time or washes
out. The guy who has been there for 10 years can handle 10 $4 units/hr
can make decent money. 


Pete Davis
NoDial.net


Scott Reed wrote:

  
  
  You might want to check with your accountant. I doubt
the IRS is going to let you "contract" with people you also employ.
You may be liable for FICA, etc. for all the installs they have done.
  
  
Scott Reed 
Owner 
NewWays 
Wireless Networking 
Network Design, Installation and Administration 
  www.nwwnet.net 
  
  
  -- Original Message ---
  
From: Pete Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], WISPA General List
wireless@wispa.org 
Sent: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 07:40:09 -0500 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations 
  
 We outsource most of our installs to our employees. The two techs
usually go out together, and split the $100. Its not
unheard of for my techs to make more money on a busy week than I take
in my salary, and I am an owner. 
 
 They make $x/hr to do service calls, uninstalls, AP maintenance,
etc
and if they can keep those caught up, we schedule an install (usually 1
or 2 /day for 2 techs). They are OFF the clock for installs, and get
$100/install. We provide the van, the tools, the gas, the CPE, and all
consumables (staples, caulk, cat5, ends, jacks, faceplates, etc). That
keeps them from usually turning in overtime. It gives them an incentive
for completing installs in a timely manner (2 hr install =
$25/hr/tech). Any service calls resulting from a faulty/sloppy install
in the first 30 days result in the installer techs going on site to fix
it on THEIR time, so they have an incentive to get it done right the
first time around. 
 
 We have a few other local IT/phone/security system consultants who
will
occasionally bring us a customer and offer to install them, since they
are an existing consulting customer for them anyway and usually selling
them a custom network/phone system/security system/audio system anyway.
We will usually give them $125 or $150 and provide the CPE and minimal
technical support. They will bring us the contract/customer worksheet
for our files, and we don't even have to go on site. Since we usually
charge $149 for the setup, we often let the consultant charge whatever
he wants, and keep it, and put in as many custom cable runs and
terminations as they can sell. We just start picking up the monthly
billing. 
 
 Those are good relationships to have.
  
 
 Pete Davis
  
 NoDial.net
  
 
 chris cooper wrote:
  
 
 
 Im sure this has been
covered before.. 
 
 
 Have any of you
outsourced installations? If so, has it
been a positive experience, how much do you pay a contractor?

 
 
 Thanks 
 Chris

No virus found in this incoming 
messag

Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-23 Thread John J. Thomas
Id never said they couldn't be paid by the hour. I used to work for a roofing 
company, and they were regularly questioned about they way they paid their 
employees. If you have someone work in your office at for 6 hours, and then 
they go and flat-rate a 3 hour job, that looks like overtime to me, but then 
I am in California, and the labor laws here are more stringent than in a lot of 
other places.

John



-Original Message-
From: Pete Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 06:10 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

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Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-23 Thread Scott Reed




That answered my comment.  As long as they are employees for everything, there is no problem that I am aware of to pay some piece-rate and some hourly rate.

Scott Reed 


Owner 


NewWays 


Wireless Networking 


Network Design, Installation and Administration 


www.nwwnet.net 




-- Original Message 
---

From: Pete Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org 


Sent: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 08:10:17 -0500 


Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations 



 

According to the DOL (department of Labor) an employee can be paid 
by
the hour or for piece work (by the job)
 
 

from http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/minwage.htm
 

 The Act requires employers 
of
covered employees who are not otherwise exempt to pay these employees 
a
minimum wage of not less than $5.15 an hour as of September 1, 
1997.
Youths under 20 years of age may be paid a minimum wage of not 
less
than $4.25 an hour during the first 90 consecutive calendar days 
of
employment with an employer. Employers may not displace any employee 
to
hire someone at the youth minimum 
wage.

 Employers may pay employees 
on
a piecerate basis, as long as they receive at least the equivalent 
of
the required minimum hourly wage rate. Employers of tipped 
employees
(i.e., those who customarily and regularly receive more than $30 
a
month in tips) may consider such tips as part of their wages, 
but
employers must pay a direct wage of at least $2.13 per hour if 
they
claim a tip credit. They must also meet certain other 
conditions.
I suppose that if these guys manage to spend over 20 (10 hrs each) 
hrs
on every install for the pay period, then I would have to adjust 
their
pay to bring them up to minimum wage. That hasn't been a problem. 
They
average about 3 hrs/install including drive time. This is about 
twice
as fast as installs got done back when they were paid hourly. This is 
a
win/win/win solution as I see it. The employees like the method 
for
making extra money. The customers like the techs getting in and out 
in
a reasonable time. I like getting 2 or 3 installs/day vs 1/day like 
we
got back when techs got paid per hour. 
 
 

We treat their install pay just like regular income. We withhold 
the
withholdings, deal with the social security, etc. 
 
 

Lincoln Welder mfg company in Ohio pays EVERY employee piece-wage 
only.
You might get $4/ea to wind motors, $2/ea to install a switch, $7/ea 
to
screw wheels on, $1.50 to inspect parts, etc. 
 

They have withholdings, pay social security, etc. They even 
clock
in/out, to insure to OSHA that no employee is working more than 
120
hrs/week but this method has been in place for years and works 
very
well. The employees love it and the unions hate it. It insures that 
the
new guy in training  gets up to speed in a reasonable time or 
washes
out. The guy who has been there for 10 years can handle 10 $4 
units/hr
can make decent money. 
 
 

Pete Davis
 

NoDial.net
 
 

Scott Reed 
wrote:

  

  

  You might want to check with your accountant.  I 
doubt
the IRS is going to let you contract with people you also employ. 

You may be liable for FICA, etc. for all the installs they have 
done.
  
 
 

Scott Reed 
 

Owner 
 

NewWays 
 

Wireless Networking 
 

Network Design, Installation and Administration 
 

  www.nwwnet.net 
 

 

  -- Original Message 
---
  
 

From: Pete Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], WISPA General 
List
wireless@wispa.org 
 

Sent: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 07:40:09 -0500 
 

Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations 
 
 

 We outsource most of our installs to our employees. The two 
techs
usually go out together, and split the $100. Its 
not
unheard of for my techs to make more money on a busy week than I 
take
in my salary, and I am an owner. 
 

 
 

 They make $x/hr to do service calls, uninstalls, AP 
maintenance,
etc
and if they can keep those caught up, we schedule an install (usually 
1
or 2 /day for 2 techs). They are OFF the clock for installs, and 
get
$100/install. We provide the van, the tools, the gas, the CPE, and 
all
consumables (staples, caulk, cat5, ends, jacks, faceplates, etc). 
That
keeps them from usually turning in overtime. It gives them an 
incentive
for completing installs in a timely manner (2 hr install 
=
$25/hr/tech). Any service calls resulting from a faulty/sloppy 
install
in the first 30 days result in the installer techs going on site to 
fix
it on THEIR time, so they have an incentive to get it done right 
the
first time around. 
 

 
 

 We have a few other local IT/phone/security system consultants 
who
will
occasionally bring us a customer and offer to install them, since 
they
are an existing consulting customer for them anyway and usually 
selling
them a custom network/phone system/security system/audio system 
anyway.
We will usually give them $125 or $150 and provide the CPE and 
minimal
technical support. They will bring us the contract/customer 
worksheet

Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-22 Thread Pete Davis




We outsource most of our installs to our employees. The two techs
usually go out together, and split the $100. Its not
unheard of for my techs to make more money on a busy week than I take
in my salary, and I am an owner. 

They make $x/hr to do service calls, uninstalls, AP maintenance, etc
and if they can keep those caught up, we schedule an install (usually 1
or 2 /day for 2 techs). They are OFF the clock for installs, and get
$100/install. We provide the van, the tools, the gas, the CPE, and all
consumables (staples, caulk, cat5, ends, jacks, faceplates, etc). That
keeps them from usually turning in overtime. It gives them an incentive
for completing installs in a timely manner (2 hr install =
$25/hr/tech). Any service calls resulting from a faulty/sloppy install
in the first 30 days result in the installer techs going on site to fix
it on THEIR time, so they have an incentive to get it done right the
first time around. 


We have a few other local IT/phone/security system consultants who will
occasionally bring us a customer and offer to install them, since they
are an existing consulting customer for them anyway and usually selling
them a custom network/phone system/security system/audio system anyway.
We will usually give them $125 or $150 and provide the CPE and minimal
technical support. They will bring us the contract/customer worksheet
for our files, and we don't even have to go on site. Since we usually
charge $149 for the setup, we often let the consultant charge whatever
he wants, and keep it, and put in as many custom cable runs and
terminations as they can sell. We just start picking up the monthly
billing. 

Those are good relationships to have.

Pete Davis
NoDial.net



chris cooper wrote:

  
  
  
  
  Im sure this has been
covered before..
  
  Have any of you
outsourced installations? If so, has it
been a positive experience, how much do you pay a contractor?
  
  Thanks
  Chris
  
  

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.7/454 - Release Date: 9/21/2006
  




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Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-22 Thread Scott Reed




You might want to check with your accountant.  I doubt the IRS is going to let you contract with people you also employ.  You may be liable for FICA, etc. for all the installs they have done.

Scott Reed 


Owner 


NewWays 


Wireless Networking 


Network Design, Installation and Administration 


www.nwwnet.net 




-- Original Message 
---

From: Pete Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org 


Sent: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 07:40:09 -0500 


Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations 



 

We outsource most of our installs to our employees. The two 
techs
usually go out together, and split the $100. Its 
not
unheard of for my techs to make more money on a busy week than I 
take
in my salary, and I am an owner. 
 
 

They make $x/hr to do service calls, uninstalls, AP maintenance, 
etc
and if they can keep those caught up, we schedule an install (usually 
1
or 2 /day for 2 techs). They are OFF the clock for installs, and 
get
$100/install. We provide the van, the tools, the gas, the CPE, and 
all
consumables (staples, caulk, cat5, ends, jacks, faceplates, etc). 
That
keeps them from usually turning in overtime. It gives them an 
incentive
for completing installs in a timely manner (2 hr install 
=
$25/hr/tech). Any service calls resulting from a faulty/sloppy 
install
in the first 30 days result in the installer techs going on site to 
fix
it on THEIR time, so they have an incentive to get it done right 
the
first time around. 
 
 

We have a few other local IT/phone/security system consultants who 
will
occasionally bring us a customer and offer to install them, since 
they
are an existing consulting customer for them anyway and usually 
selling
them a custom network/phone system/security system/audio system 
anyway.
We will usually give them $125 or $150 and provide the CPE and 
minimal
technical support. They will bring us the contract/customer 
worksheet
for our files, and we don't even have to go on site. Since we 
usually
charge $149 for the setup, we often let the consultant charge 
whatever
he wants, and keep it, and put in as many custom cable runs 
and
terminations as they can sell. We just start picking up the 
monthly
billing. 
 
 

Those are good relationships to have.
 
 

Pete Davis
 

NoDial.net
 
 

chris cooper 
wrote:

  

  

  



  
 
 Im sure this has 
been
covered 
before…..
  
  

  
 Have any of 
you
outsourced installations?  If so, has 
it
been a positive experience, how much do you pay a 
contractor?
  
  

  
 Thanks
  
 Chris
  

  


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message.
Checked by AVG Free 
Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.7/454 - Release Date: 
9/21/2006
  



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Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-22 Thread Matt Larsen - Lists
I started out with having my own installers, vans, equipment etc., but 
have switched over to outsourcing almost all of our installations.


At this time last year, I had two different outsourced installers going 
at the same time. We did 80 installs last September and our cost was a 
little bit more than what we were paying our own installers. The real 
difference came when we had a slow month (30-40 installs) and we only 
had to pay for the installs that were completed. One of the installers 
we worked with left to get a higher paying job, and it worked out well 
for all of us. Except for the fact that we have had to go out and redo 
about 25 of his installs because he was mounting too low in the houses 
or putting radios behind trees in the winter. That kind of sucked. The 
other installers has a little bit of a language barrier, being from Peru 
- and was kind of sloppy with his installs at first. Over the long run, 
he has turned out to be great, as he has stepped up and done everything 
we have asked him to do and improved the quality of his work 
considerably along the way. I now give him everything that I can, 
including service calls.


It has been a much better situation to be able to outsource to a good 
contractor. Our successful install rate is much higher and we have been 
able to focus on running and growing our network instead of stupid 
stuff. I am paying $90 to $120 per install (depending on mileage, some 
places are 300 miles round trip), $35 per service call and $35 for 
de-installs. That is working very well for me.


Matt Larsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Pete Davis wrote:
We outsource most of our installs to our employees. The two techs 
usually go out together, and split the $100. Its not unheard of for my 
techs to make more money on a busy week than I take in my salary, and 
I am an owner.


They make $x/hr to do service calls, uninstalls, AP maintenance, etc 
and if they can keep those caught up, we schedule an install (usually 
1 or 2 /day for 2 techs). They are OFF the clock for installs, and get 
$100/install. We provide the van, the tools, the gas, the CPE, and all 
consumables (staples, caulk, cat5, ends, jacks, faceplates, etc). That 
keeps them from usually turning in overtime. It gives them an 
incentive for completing installs in a timely manner (2 hr install = 
$25/hr/tech). Any service calls resulting from a faulty/sloppy install 
in the first 30 days result in the installer techs going on site to 
fix it on THEIR time, so they have an incentive to get it done right 
the first time around.



We have a few other local IT/phone/security system consultants who 
will occasionally bring us a customer and offer to install them, since 
they are an existing consulting customer for them anyway and usually 
selling them a custom network/phone system/security system/audio 
system anyway. We will usually give them $125 or $150 and provide the 
CPE and minimal technical support. They will bring us the 
contract/customer worksheet for our files, and we don't even have to 
go on site. Since we usually charge $149 for the setup, we often let 
the consultant charge whatever he wants, and keep it, and put in as 
many custom cable runs and terminations as they can sell. We just 
start picking up the monthly billing.


Those are good relationships to have.

Pete Davis
NoDial.net



chris cooper wrote:


Im sure this has been covered before…..

Have any of you outsourced installations? If so, has it been a 
positive experience, how much do you pay a contractor?


Thanks

Chris

 
No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.7/454 - Release Date: 9/21/2006
  




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RE: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-22 Thread Rick Harnish
We have two outsourced installers.  They are paid $100/install.  They supply
their own tools, gas, insurance and vehicle.  We furnish supplies they need.
They also fill in their time with Dish and DirecTV installs.  Some sourced
from our company, some sourced from other shops.  

Once you figure the cost of vans, fuel, maintenance, insurance, FICA,
liability, tools, and everything else, it makes more sense to me to continue
using outsourced help.  

Rick Harnish
President
OnlyInternet Broadband  Wireless, Inc.
260-827-2482
Founding Member of WISPA


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 11:02 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

I started out with having my own installers, vans, equipment etc., but 
have switched over to outsourcing almost all of our installations.

At this time last year, I had two different outsourced installers going 
at the same time. We did 80 installs last September and our cost was a 
little bit more than what we were paying our own installers. The real 
difference came when we had a slow month (30-40 installs) and we only 
had to pay for the installs that were completed. One of the installers 
we worked with left to get a higher paying job, and it worked out well 
for all of us. Except for the fact that we have had to go out and redo 
about 25 of his installs because he was mounting too low in the houses 
or putting radios behind trees in the winter. That kind of sucked. The 
other installers has a little bit of a language barrier, being from Peru 
- and was kind of sloppy with his installs at first. Over the long run, 
he has turned out to be great, as he has stepped up and done everything 
we have asked him to do and improved the quality of his work 
considerably along the way. I now give him everything that I can, 
including service calls.

It has been a much better situation to be able to outsource to a good 
contractor. Our successful install rate is much higher and we have been 
able to focus on running and growing our network instead of stupid 
stuff. I am paying $90 to $120 per install (depending on mileage, some 
places are 300 miles round trip), $35 per service call and $35 for 
de-installs. That is working very well for me.

Matt Larsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Pete Davis wrote:
 We outsource most of our installs to our employees. The two techs 
 usually go out together, and split the $100. Its not unheard of for my 
 techs to make more money on a busy week than I take in my salary, and 
 I am an owner.

 They make $x/hr to do service calls, uninstalls, AP maintenance, etc 
 and if they can keep those caught up, we schedule an install (usually 
 1 or 2 /day for 2 techs). They are OFF the clock for installs, and get 
 $100/install. We provide the van, the tools, the gas, the CPE, and all 
 consumables (staples, caulk, cat5, ends, jacks, faceplates, etc). That 
 keeps them from usually turning in overtime. It gives them an 
 incentive for completing installs in a timely manner (2 hr install = 
 $25/hr/tech). Any service calls resulting from a faulty/sloppy install 
 in the first 30 days result in the installer techs going on site to 
 fix it on THEIR time, so they have an incentive to get it done right 
 the first time around.


 We have a few other local IT/phone/security system consultants who 
 will occasionally bring us a customer and offer to install them, since 
 they are an existing consulting customer for them anyway and usually 
 selling them a custom network/phone system/security system/audio 
 system anyway. We will usually give them $125 or $150 and provide the 
 CPE and minimal technical support. They will bring us the 
 contract/customer worksheet for our files, and we don't even have to 
 go on site. Since we usually charge $149 for the setup, we often let 
 the consultant charge whatever he wants, and keep it, and put in as 
 many custom cable runs and terminations as they can sell. We just 
 start picking up the monthly billing.

 Those are good relationships to have.

 Pete Davis
 NoDial.net



 chris cooper wrote:

 Im sure this has been covered before...

 Have any of you outsourced installations? If so, has it been a 
 positive experience, how much do you pay a contractor?

 Thanks

 Chris

  
 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG Free Edition.
 Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.7/454 - Release Date: 9/21/2006
   


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Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-22 Thread Mario Pommier

Matt, Pete,
   Can you state what kinds of radios these installs involve? are these 
PoE radios, what brand, what kind of terrain you're installing in, 
rural/metro area?  Is grounding being done?  What if they install a 
non-pen mount?  Same price?  Where does install end: i.e. do they ahve 
to do an indoor run to where the network equipment is?

   It would help to gauge what's involved.
   Thanks.
   BTW, we haven't gone to outsourcing, not yet anyway.

Mario

Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:

I started out with having my own installers, vans, equipment etc., but 
have switched over to outsourcing almost all of our installations.


At this time last year, I had two different outsourced installers 
going at the same time. We did 80 installs last September and our cost 
was a little bit more than what we were paying our own installers. The 
real difference came when we had a slow month (30-40 installs) and we 
only had to pay for the installs that were completed. One of the 
installers we worked with left to get a higher paying job, and it 
worked out well for all of us. Except for the fact that we have had to 
go out and redo about 25 of his installs because he was mounting too 
low in the houses or putting radios behind trees in the winter. That 
kind of sucked. The other installers has a little bit of a language 
barrier, being from Peru - and was kind of sloppy with his installs at 
first. Over the long run, he has turned out to be great, as he has 
stepped up and done everything we have asked him to do and improved 
the quality of his work considerably along the way. I now give him 
everything that I can, including service calls.


It has been a much better situation to be able to outsource to a good 
contractor. Our successful install rate is much higher and we have 
been able to focus on running and growing our network instead of 
stupid stuff. I am paying $90 to $120 per install (depending on 
mileage, some places are 300 miles round trip), $35 per service call 
and $35 for de-installs. That is working very well for me.


Matt Larsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Pete Davis wrote:

We outsource most of our installs to our employees. The two techs 
usually go out together, and split the $100. Its not unheard of for 
my techs to make more money on a busy week than I take in my salary, 
and I am an owner.


They make $x/hr to do service calls, uninstalls, AP maintenance, etc 
and if they can keep those caught up, we schedule an install (usually 
1 or 2 /day for 2 techs). They are OFF the clock for installs, and 
get $100/install. We provide the van, the tools, the gas, the CPE, 
and all consumables (staples, caulk, cat5, ends, jacks, faceplates, 
etc). That keeps them from usually turning in overtime. It gives them 
an incentive for completing installs in a timely manner (2 hr install 
= $25/hr/tech). Any service calls resulting from a faulty/sloppy 
install in the first 30 days result in the installer techs going on 
site to fix it on THEIR time, so they have an incentive to get it 
done right the first time around.



We have a few other local IT/phone/security system consultants who 
will occasionally bring us a customer and offer to install them, 
since they are an existing consulting customer for them anyway and 
usually selling them a custom network/phone system/security 
system/audio system anyway. We will usually give them $125 or $150 
and provide the CPE and minimal technical support. They will bring us 
the contract/customer worksheet for our files, and we don't even have 
to go on site. Since we usually charge $149 for the setup, we often 
let the consultant charge whatever he wants, and keep it, and put in 
as many custom cable runs and terminations as they can sell. We just 
start picking up the monthly billing.


Those are good relationships to have.

Pete Davis
NoDial.net



chris cooper wrote:



Im sure this has been covered before…..

Have any of you outsourced installations? If so, has it been a 
positive experience, how much do you pay a contractor?


Thanks

Chris

 
No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.7/454 - Release Date: 
9/21/2006
  









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Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-22 Thread Matt Larsen - Lists

Hi Mario,

To answer your questions:

1)  Tranzeo radios, all POE, all models
2)  Terrain is mostly flat, some rolling hills, mostly rural
3)  Grounding is required in the contract
4)  We provide the mounting hardware.  Normally, we send satellite arms 
with the installer, but if it takes more we provide a tripod or 
non-pen.  Their price doesn't change.
5)  We do a cat-5 run through an outside wall.  If they need more 
wiring, it is $35/hour.


I would be happy to share my intaller's agreement.  Just hit me off list.

Matt Larsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Mario Pommier wrote:

Matt, Pete,
   Can you state what kinds of radios these installs involve? are 
these PoE radios, what brand, what kind of terrain you're installing 
in, rural/metro area?  Is grounding being done?  What if they install 
a non-pen mount?  Same price?  Where does install end: i.e. do they 
ahve to do an indoor run to where the network equipment is?

   It would help to gauge what's involved.
   Thanks.
   BTW, we haven't gone to outsourcing, not yet anyway.

Mario

Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:

I started out with having my own installers, vans, equipment etc., 
but have switched over to outsourcing almost all of our installations.


At this time last year, I had two different outsourced installers 
going at the same time. We did 80 installs last September and our 
cost was a little bit more than what we were paying our own 
installers. The real difference came when we had a slow month (30-40 
installs) and we only had to pay for the installs that were 
completed. One of the installers we worked with left to get a higher 
paying job, and it worked out well for all of us. Except for the fact 
that we have had to go out and redo about 25 of his installs because 
he was mounting too low in the houses or putting radios behind trees 
in the winter. That kind of sucked. The other installers has a little 
bit of a language barrier, being from Peru - and was kind of sloppy 
with his installs at first. Over the long run, he has turned out to 
be great, as he has stepped up and done everything we have asked him 
to do and improved the quality of his work considerably along the 
way. I now give him everything that I can, including service calls.


It has been a much better situation to be able to outsource to a good 
contractor. Our successful install rate is much higher and we have 
been able to focus on running and growing our network instead of 
stupid stuff. I am paying $90 to $120 per install (depending on 
mileage, some places are 300 miles round trip), $35 per service call 
and $35 for de-installs. That is working very well for me.


Matt Larsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Pete Davis wrote:

We outsource most of our installs to our employees. The two techs 
usually go out together, and split the $100. Its not unheard of for 
my techs to make more money on a busy week than I take in my salary, 
and I am an owner.


They make $x/hr to do service calls, uninstalls, AP maintenance, etc 
and if they can keep those caught up, we schedule an install 
(usually 1 or 2 /day for 2 techs). They are OFF the clock for 
installs, and get $100/install. We provide the van, the tools, the 
gas, the CPE, and all consumables (staples, caulk, cat5, ends, 
jacks, faceplates, etc). That keeps them from usually turning in 
overtime. It gives them an incentive for completing installs in a 
timely manner (2 hr install = $25/hr/tech). Any service calls 
resulting from a faulty/sloppy install in the first 30 days result 
in the installer techs going on site to fix it on THEIR time, so 
they have an incentive to get it done right the first time around.



We have a few other local IT/phone/security system consultants who 
will occasionally bring us a customer and offer to install them, 
since they are an existing consulting customer for them anyway and 
usually selling them a custom network/phone system/security 
system/audio system anyway. We will usually give them $125 or $150 
and provide the CPE and minimal technical support. They will bring 
us the contract/customer worksheet for our files, and we don't even 
have to go on site. Since we usually charge $149 for the setup, we 
often let the consultant charge whatever he wants, and keep it, and 
put in as many custom cable runs and terminations as they can sell. 
We just start picking up the monthly billing.


Those are good relationships to have.

Pete Davis
NoDial.net



chris cooper wrote:



Im sure this has been covered before…..

Have any of you outsourced installations? If so, has it been a 
positive experience, how much do you pay a contractor?


Thanks

Chris

 
No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.7/454 - Release Date: 
9/21/2006
  











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Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-22 Thread John J. Thomas
Yes, and, if for some reason they take too long on a job such that the 
flat-rate billing is less than Minimum wage, you get into hot water

John


-Original Message-
From: Scott Reed [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 05:46 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

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