Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower
The reality on an AM site is that the whole thing is a crap shoot. You could throw up the cheapest crap in the world and it could work fine. Then you throw up the best stuff on the market and you have nothing but headaches. AM sites are really to be avoided even if they are not direct fed. Use shielded cable. Bond to the tower every 50 feet or so. I would discuss the application with one of the surge arrestor manufacturers like Polyphaser or Harger before putting any old CAT5 surge arrestors on the lines. I know of sites that have microwave equip on the tower where the tower is hot and they work without issue. You should be ready to spend time and money troublshooting issues at this site. And assume you may not be able to use it at all Good luck Bob Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Doug Ratcliffe do...@dwwfl.com Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:00:05 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower True. The height is 160 feet. I was thinking about using outside plant heavy duty shielded 25-pair Cat5e rated 50-pin telco cables, rather than 14 individual cat-5 wires, going into 6-cable cat5e octopus cables at the top and bottom for easier cable management. - Original Message - From: Dustin Jurman dus...@rapidsys.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower Brian, They knew way before. How high are you going up? Dustin From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 9:46 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower Doug Ratcliffe wrote: So now that the entire internet now has figured out which tower I'm talking about (including local competition that may not have known where my tower broadcasts were located)... All the more reason to use the members list.. What kind of ethernet/POE shielding would allow me to run my switches/power packs/etc at the bottom of this tower based on 1kW? - Original Message - From: Leon Zetekoff mailto:wa4...@arrl.net wa4...@arrl.net To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower WMFJ is 1 kw as I thought. Matter of fact I might have been at that station evaluating it for a friends family in the 90s. It was one station in Daytona. Here's the link: http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=wmfj http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=wmfjx=15y=6sr=Ys=C x=15y=6sr=Ys=C Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: I am guessing WMFJ - Original Message - From: Leon D. Zetekoff, NCE mailto:wa4...@backwoodswireless.net wa4...@backwoodswireless.net To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower * Doug Ratcliffe wrote, On 1/3/2009 7:33 PM: The tower is a 4-leg self supporting tower, it was built a long time ago, built from what I've heard in the mid 1900's... The antennas for the tower are isolated from the tower, it appears that there are 3 vertical antennas, attached with copper tubing from the transmitter to each of the antennas (which are on isolated standoffs, top to bottom. There is some kind of matching transformer in the building under the tower. The tower is 10kW, 1450 AM (good guess on the frequency!).. I think 1450 is a CLASS IV (or what was a CLASS IV) freq and should be 1kW. What's the callsign and location? leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower
Brian, They knew way before. How high are you going up? Dustin From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 9:46 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower Doug Ratcliffe wrote: So now that the entire internet now has figured out which tower I'm talking about (including local competition that may not have known where my tower broadcasts were located)... All the more reason to use the members list.. What kind of ethernet/POE shielding would allow me to run my switches/power packs/etc at the bottom of this tower based on 1kW? - Original Message - From: Leon Zetekoff mailto:wa4...@arrl.net wa4...@arrl.net To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower WMFJ is 1 kw as I thought. Matter of fact I might have been at that station evaluating it for a friends family in the 90s. It was one station in Daytona. Here's the link: http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=wmfj http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=wmfjx=15y=6sr=Ys=C x=15y=6sr=Ys=C Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: I am guessing WMFJ - Original Message - From: Leon D. Zetekoff, NCE mailto:wa4...@backwoodswireless.net wa4...@backwoodswireless.net To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower * Doug Ratcliffe wrote, On 1/3/2009 7:33 PM: The tower is a 4-leg self supporting tower, it was built a long time ago, built from what I've heard in the mid 1900's... The antennas for the tower are isolated from the tower, it appears that there are 3 vertical antennas, attached with copper tubing from the transmitter to each of the antennas (which are on isolated standoffs, top to bottom. There is some kind of matching transformer in the building under the tower. The tower is 10kW, 1450 AM (good guess on the frequency!).. I think 1450 is a CLASS IV (or what was a CLASS IV) freq and should be 1kW. What's the callsign and location? leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower
I usually know what my competitors are doing before they think about doing it. ;-) They should know where all of your locations are, just as you should know where all of their locations are. It makes RF cooperation a whole lot easier that way. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Doug Ratcliffe do...@dwwfl.com Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 10:23 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower So now that the entire internet now has figured out which tower I'm talking about (including local competition that may not have known where my tower broadcasts were located)... What kind of ethernet/POE shielding would allow me to run my switches/power packs/etc at the bottom of this tower based on 1kW? - Original Message - From: Leon Zetekoff wa4...@arrl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower WMFJ is 1 kw as I thought. Matter of fact I might have been at that station evaluating it for a friends family in the 90s. It was one station in Daytona. Here's the link: http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=wmfjx=15y=6sr=Ys=C Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: I am guessing WMFJ - Original Message - From: Leon D. Zetekoff, NCE wa4...@backwoodswireless.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower * Doug Ratcliffe wrote, On 1/3/2009 7:33 PM: The tower is a 4-leg self supporting tower, it was built a long time ago, built from what I've heard in the mid 1900's... The antennas for the tower are isolated from the tower, it appears that there are 3 vertical antennas, attached with copper tubing from the transmitter to each of the antennas (which are on isolated standoffs, top to bottom. There is some kind of matching transformer in the building under the tower. The tower is 10kW, 1450 AM (good guess on the frequency!).. I think 1450 is a CLASS IV (or what was a CLASS IV) freq and should be 1kW. What's the callsign and location? leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower
Interference Well You've got to give a little, take a little And let your poor heart break a little That's the story of, That's the glory of WISP You've got to laugh a little, cry a little Until the clouds roll by a little That's the story of, That's the glory of WISP You've got to win a little, lose a little Yes, and always have the blues a little That's the story of, That's the glory of WISP That's the story of, That's the glory of WIIISP lakel...@gbcx.net wrote: Makes RF interference so much easier too! :-) Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: "Mike Hammett" wispawirel...@ics-il.net Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 09:06:24 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower I usually know what my competitors are doing before they think about doing it. ;-) They should know where all of your locations are, just as you should know where all of their locations are. It makes RF cooperation a whole lot easier that way. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Doug Ratcliffe" do...@dwwfl.com Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 10:23 AM To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower So now that the entire internet now has figured out which tower I'm talking about (including local competition that may not have known where my tower broadcasts were located)... What kind of ethernet/POE shielding would allow me to run my switches/power packs/etc at the bottom of this tower based on 1kW? - Original Message - From: "Leon Zetekoff" wa4...@arrl.net To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower WMFJ is 1 kw as I thought. Matter of fact I might have been at that station evaluating it for a friends family in the 90s. It was one station in Daytona. Here's the link: http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=wmfjx=15y=6sr=Ys=C Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: I am guessing WMFJ - Original Message - From: "Leon D. Zetekoff, NCE" wa4...@backwoodswireless.net To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower * Doug Ratcliffe wrote, On 1/3/2009 7:33 PM: The tower is a 4-leg self supporting tower, it was built a long time ago, built from what I've heard in the mid 1900's... The antennas for the tower are isolated from the tower, it appears that there are 3 vertical antennas, attached with copper tubing from the transmitter to each of the antennas (which are on isolated standoffs, top to bottom. There is some kind of matching transformer in the building under the tower. The tower is 10kW, 1450 AM (good guess on the frequency!).. I think 1450 is a CLASS IV (or what was a CLASS IV) freq and should be 1kW. What's the callsign and location? leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" WISPs - Do you
Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower
Doug Ratcliffe wrote: So now that the entire internet now has figured out which tower I'm talking about (including local competition that may not have known where my tower broadcasts were located)... All the more reason to use the members list.. What kind of ethernet/POE shielding would allow me to run my switches/power packs/etc at the bottom of this tower based on 1kW? - Original Message - From: "Leon Zetekoff" wa4...@arrl.net To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower WMFJ is 1 kw as I thought. Matter of fact I might have been at that station evaluating it for a friends family in the 90s. It was one station in Daytona. Here's the link: http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=wmfjx=15y=6sr=Ys=C Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: I am guessing WMFJ - Original Message - From: "Leon D. Zetekoff, NCE" wa4...@backwoodswireless.net To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower * Doug Ratcliffe wrote, On 1/3/2009 7:33 PM: The tower is a 4-leg self supporting tower, it was built a long time ago, built from what I've heard in the mid 1900's... The antennas for the tower are isolated from the tower, it appears that there are 3 vertical antennas, attached with copper tubing from the transmitter to each of the antennas (which are on isolated standoffs, top to bottom. There is some kind of matching transformer in the building under the tower. The tower is 10kW, 1450 AM (good guess on the frequency!).. I think 1450 is a CLASS IV (or what was a CLASS IV) freq and should be 1kW. What's the callsign and location? leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower
True. The height is 160 feet. I was thinking about using outside plant heavy duty shielded 25-pair Cat5e rated 50-pin telco cables, rather than 14 individual cat-5 wires, going into 6-cable cat5e octopus cables at the top and bottom for easier cable management. - Original Message - From: Dustin Jurman dus...@rapidsys.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower Brian, They knew way before. How high are you going up? Dustin From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 9:46 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower Doug Ratcliffe wrote: So now that the entire internet now has figured out which tower I'm talking about (including local competition that may not have known where my tower broadcasts were located)... All the more reason to use the members list.. What kind of ethernet/POE shielding would allow me to run my switches/power packs/etc at the bottom of this tower based on 1kW? - Original Message - From: Leon Zetekoff mailto:wa4...@arrl.net wa4...@arrl.net To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower WMFJ is 1 kw as I thought. Matter of fact I might have been at that station evaluating it for a friends family in the 90s. It was one station in Daytona. Here's the link: http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=wmfj http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=wmfjx=15y=6sr=Ys=C x=15y=6sr=Ys=C Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: I am guessing WMFJ - Original Message - From: Leon D. Zetekoff, NCE mailto:wa4...@backwoodswireless.net wa4...@backwoodswireless.net To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower * Doug Ratcliffe wrote, On 1/3/2009 7:33 PM: The tower is a 4-leg self supporting tower, it was built a long time ago, built from what I've heard in the mid 1900's... The antennas for the tower are isolated from the tower, it appears that there are 3 vertical antennas, attached with copper tubing from the transmitter to each of the antennas (which are on isolated standoffs, top to bottom. There is some kind of matching transformer in the building under the tower. The tower is 10kW, 1450 AM (good guess on the frequency!).. I think 1450 is a CLASS IV (or what was a CLASS IV) freq and should be 1kW. What's the callsign and location? leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower
Makes RF interference so much easier too! :-) Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 09:06:24 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower I usually know what my competitors are doing before they think about doing it. ;-) They should know where all of your locations are, just as you should know where all of their locations are. It makes RF cooperation a whole lot easier that way. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Doug Ratcliffe do...@dwwfl.com Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 10:23 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower So now that the entire internet now has figured out which tower I'm talking about (including local competition that may not have known where my tower broadcasts were located)... What kind of ethernet/POE shielding would allow me to run my switches/power packs/etc at the bottom of this tower based on 1kW? - Original Message - From: Leon Zetekoff wa4...@arrl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower WMFJ is 1 kw as I thought. Matter of fact I might have been at that station evaluating it for a friends family in the 90s. It was one station in Daytona. Here's the link: http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=wmfjx=15y=6sr=Ys=C Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: I am guessing WMFJ - Original Message - From: Leon D. Zetekoff, NCE wa4...@backwoodswireless.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower * Doug Ratcliffe wrote, On 1/3/2009 7:33 PM: The tower is a 4-leg self supporting tower, it was built a long time ago, built from what I've heard in the mid 1900's... The antennas for the tower are isolated from the tower, it appears that there are 3 vertical antennas, attached with copper tubing from the transmitter to each of the antennas (which are on isolated standoffs, top to bottom. There is some kind of matching transformer in the building under the tower. The tower is 10kW, 1450 AM (good guess on the frequency!).. I think 1450 is a CLASS IV (or what was a CLASS IV) freq and should be 1kW. What's the callsign and location? leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower
So now that the entire internet now has figured out which tower I'm talking about (including local competition that may not have known where my tower broadcasts were located)... What kind of ethernet/POE shielding would allow me to run my switches/power packs/etc at the bottom of this tower based on 1kW? - Original Message - From: Leon Zetekoff wa4...@arrl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower WMFJ is 1 kw as I thought. Matter of fact I might have been at that station evaluating it for a friends family in the 90s. It was one station in Daytona. Here's the link: http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=wmfjx=15y=6sr=Ys=C Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: I am guessing WMFJ - Original Message - From: Leon D. Zetekoff, NCE wa4...@backwoodswireless.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower * Doug Ratcliffe wrote, On 1/3/2009 7:33 PM: The tower is a 4-leg self supporting tower, it was built a long time ago, built from what I've heard in the mid 1900's... The antennas for the tower are isolated from the tower, it appears that there are 3 vertical antennas, attached with copper tubing from the transmitter to each of the antennas (which are on isolated standoffs, top to bottom. There is some kind of matching transformer in the building under the tower. The tower is 10kW, 1450 AM (good guess on the frequency!).. I think 1450 is a CLASS IV (or what was a CLASS IV) freq and should be 1kW. What's the callsign and location? leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower
And after some research its their FM station which I was confused with, in another city at 10kW. - Original Message - From: Leon Zetekoff wa4...@arrl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower WMFJ is 1 kw as I thought. Matter of fact I might have been at that station evaluating it for a friends family in the 90s. It was one station in Daytona. Here's the link: http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=wmfjx=15y=6sr=Ys=C Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: I am guessing WMFJ - Original Message - From: Leon D. Zetekoff, NCE wa4...@backwoodswireless.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower * Doug Ratcliffe wrote, On 1/3/2009 7:33 PM: The tower is a 4-leg self supporting tower, it was built a long time ago, built from what I've heard in the mid 1900's... The antennas for the tower are isolated from the tower, it appears that there are 3 vertical antennas, attached with copper tubing from the transmitter to each of the antennas (which are on isolated standoffs, top to bottom. There is some kind of matching transformer in the building under the tower. The tower is 10kW, 1450 AM (good guess on the frequency!).. I think 1450 is a CLASS IV (or what was a CLASS IV) freq and should be 1kW. What's the callsign and location? leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower
WMFJ is 1 kw as I thought. Matter of fact I might have been at that station evaluating it for a friends family in the 90s. It was one station in Daytona. Here's the link: http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=wmfjx=15y=6sr=Ys=C Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: I am guessing WMFJ - Original Message - From: Leon D. Zetekoff, NCE wa4...@backwoodswireless.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower * Doug Ratcliffe wrote, On 1/3/2009 7:33 PM: The tower is a 4-leg self supporting tower, it was built a long time ago, built from what I've heard in the mid 1900's... The antennas for the tower are isolated from the tower, it appears that there are 3 vertical antennas, attached with copper tubing from the transmitter to each of the antennas (which are on isolated standoffs, top to bottom. There is some kind of matching transformer in the building under the tower. The tower is 10kW, 1450 AM (good guess on the frequency!).. I think 1450 is a CLASS IV (or what was a CLASS IV) freq and should be 1kW. What's the callsign and location? leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower
Doug, The only way to tell if using shielded cable would work is to try it. Every high-power (radio tower) situation is unique. Most tower problems occur on high-power FM towers where the FM frequency is close to the Ethernet frequency but problems can easily exist on AM towers too depending on AM transmit power levels, proximity to your cabling, effectiveness of your shielding and grounding, filters internal to and external from your equipment, etc. This topic (with examples) can be discussed endlessly but each and every tower is going to be unique so if you want a quick and correct answer then I'd suggest just going ahead and trying it. Do your best on the initial shielding and grounding to get the best result then see if that is good enough to meet your needs. jack Doug Ratcliffe wrote: We've had for many years access to a non-live AM radio tower (by non-live, the antennas are mounted on the sides of the tower, insulated, look like long steel cables). For a long time we ran AC to the top, into a small choke/transformer (some little gizmo) that filtered the AM radio signal, along with a fiber cable to the bottom. A lightning strike zapped all the equipment a few years ago, and we never replaced it. The time has come that we need to put equipment on it again. I'd like to move towards running POE to the bottom, and at the top would be Nanostations 2/5's. The tower is 160 ft tall self-supporting. I was thinking about running shielded twisted pair cable. In the past we've been able to run short lengths of CAT5 at the top from the main power box, but the last time any experimentation was done with CAT5 was with a former partner, and the now deceased engineer that used to run the radio station. Would the shielded cable remove the interference/static charge/etc or is this just not possible? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs WISPs - Do you know where your customers are? For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger Phone 818-227-4220 Email jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower
Doug, We have POE running on an identical AM tower (fairly low wattage) configuration. We did used shielded cable and I believe we are grounding the shield to the tower every 20-40' (can't remember). The shield does pick up the AM transmission and we also used ferrite beads at the bottom. Like Jack says, it is extremely tricky to pull off and much care and patience needs to happen in the engineering to ensure a workable solution. We do have Canopy 5.2 running POE on this tower. Rick Harnish -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 3:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower Doug, The only way to tell if using shielded cable would work is to try it. Every high-power (radio tower) situation is unique. Most tower problems occur on high-power FM towers where the FM frequency is close to the Ethernet frequency but problems can easily exist on AM towers too depending on AM transmit power levels, proximity to your cabling, effectiveness of your shielding and grounding, filters internal to and external from your equipment, etc. This topic (with examples) can be discussed endlessly but each and every tower is going to be unique so if you want a quick and correct answer then I'd suggest just going ahead and trying it. Do your best on the initial shielding and grounding to get the best result then see if that is good enough to meet your needs. jack Doug Ratcliffe wrote: We've had for many years access to a non-live AM radio tower (by non-live, the antennas are mounted on the sides of the tower, insulated, look like long steel cables). For a long time we ran AC to the top, into a small choke/transformer (some little gizmo) that filtered the AM radio signal, along with a fiber cable to the bottom. A lightning strike zapped all the equipment a few years ago, and we never replaced it. The time has come that we need to put equipment on it again. I'd like to move towards running POE to the bottom, and at the top would be Nanostations 2/5's. The tower is 160 ft tall self-supporting. I was thinking about running shielded twisted pair cable. In the past we've been able to run short lengths of CAT5 at the top from the main power box, but the last time any experimentation was done with CAT5 was with a former partner, and the now deceased engineer that used to run the radio station. Would the shielded cable remove the interference/static charge/etc or is this just not possible? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs WISPs - Do you know where your customers are? For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger Phone 818-227-4220 Email jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower
One thing you might try is making an RF choke at the tower base coiling up the CAT5 and possibly even using a ferrite on it as well. Leon * Jack Unger wrote, On 1/3/2009 3:35 PM: Doug, The only way to tell if using shielded cable would work is to try it. Every high-power (radio tower) situation is unique. Most tower problems occur on high-power FM towers where the FM frequency is close to the Ethernet frequency but problems can easily exist on AM towers too depending on AM transmit power levels, proximity to your cabling, effectiveness of your shielding and grounding, filters internal to and external from your equipment, etc. This topic (with examples) can be discussed endlessly but each and every tower is going to be unique so if you want a quick and correct answer then I'd suggest just going ahead and trying it. Do your best on the initial shielding and grounding to get the best result then see if that is good enough to meet your needs. jack Doug Ratcliffe wrote: We've had for many years access to a non-live AM radio tower (by non-live, the antennas are mounted on the sides of the tower, insulated, look like long steel cables). For a long time we ran AC to the top, into a small choke/transformer (some little gizmo) that filtered the AM radio signal, along with a fiber cable to the bottom. A lightning strike zapped all the equipment a few years ago, and we never replaced it. The time has come that we need to put equipment on it again. I'd like to move towards running POE to the bottom, and at the top would be Nanostations 2/5's. The tower is 160 ft tall self-supporting. I was thinking about running shielded twisted pair cable. In the past we've been able to run short lengths of CAT5 at the top from the main power box, but the last time any experimentation was done with CAT5 was with a former partner, and the now deceased engineer that used to run the radio station. Would the shielded cable remove the interference/static charge/etc or is this just not possible? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower
In the case of grounding every 20-40 feet, what are you doing to achieve this without breaking down the water resistant jacket on the cable? Using an inline RJ45 POE surge protector? A ground tap clamp? Also, in the case of Nanostations, the ground is done via the metal RJ45 STP connectors (the metal connector is the ground supposedly). Should I avoid hooking that STP ground up altogether? - Original Message - From: Rick Harnish rharn...@greatamericanbroadband.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower Doug, We have POE running on an identical AM tower (fairly low wattage) configuration. We did used shielded cable and I believe we are grounding the shield to the tower every 20-40' (can't remember). The shield does pick up the AM transmission and we also used ferrite beads at the bottom. Like Jack says, it is extremely tricky to pull off and much care and patience needs to happen in the engineering to ensure a workable solution. We do have Canopy 5.2 running POE on this tower. Rick Harnish -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 3:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower Doug, The only way to tell if using shielded cable would work is to try it. Every high-power (radio tower) situation is unique. Most tower problems occur on high-power FM towers where the FM frequency is close to the Ethernet frequency but problems can easily exist on AM towers too depending on AM transmit power levels, proximity to your cabling, effectiveness of your shielding and grounding, filters internal to and external from your equipment, etc. This topic (with examples) can be discussed endlessly but each and every tower is going to be unique so if you want a quick and correct answer then I'd suggest just going ahead and trying it. Do your best on the initial shielding and grounding to get the best result then see if that is good enough to meet your needs. jack Doug Ratcliffe wrote: We've had for many years access to a non-live AM radio tower (by non-live, the antennas are mounted on the sides of the tower, insulated, look like long steel cables). For a long time we ran AC to the top, into a small choke/transformer (some little gizmo) that filtered the AM radio signal, along with a fiber cable to the bottom. A lightning strike zapped all the equipment a few years ago, and we never replaced it. The time has come that we need to put equipment on it again. I'd like to move towards running POE to the bottom, and at the top would be Nanostations 2/5's. The tower is 160 ft tall self-supporting. I was thinking about running shielded twisted pair cable. In the past we've been able to run short lengths of CAT5 at the top from the main power box, but the last time any experimentation was done with CAT5 was with a former partner, and the now deceased engineer that used to run the radio station. Would the shielded cable remove the interference/static charge/etc or is this just not possible? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs WISPs - Do you know where your customers are? For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger Phone 818-227-4220 Email jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower
Use heavy duty direct burial cable and some 400 size coax grounding strap. Then just peel of the outer plastic to the aluminum shield. A db cable should have another plastic protection under the shield. /Eje /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Doug Ratcliffe do...@dwwfl.com Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 17:18:35 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower In the case of grounding every 20-40 feet, what are you doing to achieve this without breaking down the water resistant jacket on the cable? Using an inline RJ45 POE surge protector? A ground tap clamp? Also, in the case of Nanostations, the ground is done via the metal RJ45 STP connectors (the metal connector is the ground supposedly). Should I avoid hooking that STP ground up altogether? - Original Message - From: Rick Harnish rharn...@greatamericanbroadband.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower Doug, We have POE running on an identical AM tower (fairly low wattage) configuration. We did used shielded cable and I believe we are grounding the shield to the tower every 20-40' (can't remember). The shield does pick up the AM transmission and we also used ferrite beads at the bottom. Like Jack says, it is extremely tricky to pull off and much care and patience needs to happen in the engineering to ensure a workable solution. We do have Canopy 5.2 running POE on this tower. Rick Harnish -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 3:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower Doug, The only way to tell if using shielded cable would work is to try it. Every high-power (radio tower) situation is unique. Most tower problems occur on high-power FM towers where the FM frequency is close to the Ethernet frequency but problems can easily exist on AM towers too depending on AM transmit power levels, proximity to your cabling, effectiveness of your shielding and grounding, filters internal to and external from your equipment, etc. This topic (with examples) can be discussed endlessly but each and every tower is going to be unique so if you want a quick and correct answer then I'd suggest just going ahead and trying it. Do your best on the initial shielding and grounding to get the best result then see if that is good enough to meet your needs. jack Doug Ratcliffe wrote: We've had for many years access to a non-live AM radio tower (by non-live, the antennas are mounted on the sides of the tower, insulated, look like long steel cables). For a long time we ran AC to the top, into a small choke/transformer (some little gizmo) that filtered the AM radio signal, along with a fiber cable to the bottom. A lightning strike zapped all the equipment a few years ago, and we never replaced it. The time has come that we need to put equipment on it again. I'd like to move towards running POE to the bottom, and at the top would be Nanostations 2/5's. The tower is 160 ft tall self-supporting. I was thinking about running shielded twisted pair cable. In the past we've been able to run short lengths of CAT5 at the top from the main power box, but the last time any experimentation was done with CAT5 was with a former partner, and the now deceased engineer that used to run the radio station. Would the shielded cable remove the interference/static charge/etc or is this just not possible? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs WISPs - Do you know where your customers are? For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger Phone 818-227-4220 Email jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http
Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower
Are you sure it is non-live? Normally AM antennas are the whole tower. Is it sitting on an insulator at the base? Do you know the power of the transmitter? 160 feet sure fits the mold of a quarter wavelength vertical. Like 1460 kHz. If it is shunt fed, then you will have a tap up about a quarter of the way energizing the whole tower. Or it could be base fed and there would be a matching network/loading network in a transformer shed or enclosure at the base. Either way if it is an active AM tower of that length the whole tower most certaily has current on it. The best way would be to run the POE ethernet cable in the exact same manner as the tower light (presuming it has one, at 160' that is not a requirement). You can make a choke coil out of copper tubing and run the cat5 through the tubing. There are also commercially made isolation transformers for doing this but each is customized to the type of antenna and the frequency. Be better yet if you can run it in conduit clear to where you are mounting the equipment. Lots of factors would influence whether or not you would want to ground the shield and if so where. The voltage on a grounded quarter wave stick goes from zero to infinity (in theory). The main thing is to keep the AM current off the CAT 5 totally if you can. If you cannot, you would want to bond the shield to the tower every 10 feet to keep the magnitude of the current low. - Original Message - From: Doug Ratcliffe do...@dwwfl.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 12:06 PM Subject: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower We've had for many years access to a non-live AM radio tower (by non-live, the antennas are mounted on the sides of the tower, insulated, look like long steel cables). For a long time we ran AC to the top, into a small choke/transformer (some little gizmo) that filtered the AM radio signal, along with a fiber cable to the bottom. A lightning strike zapped all the equipment a few years ago, and we never replaced it. The time has come that we need to put equipment on it again. I'd like to move towards running POE to the bottom, and at the top would be Nanostations 2/5's. The tower is 160 ft tall self-supporting. I was thinking about running shielded twisted pair cable. In the past we've been able to run short lengths of CAT5 at the top from the main power box, but the last time any experimentation was done with CAT5 was with a former partner, and the now deceased engineer that used to run the radio station. Would the shielded cable remove the interference/static charge/etc or is this just not possible? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower
Mesa was on a very similar tower, except it was 200ft. I don't recall how far up the cable went... but I know it wasn't running the whole length of the tower. There was one long steel cable running up the tower, the tower itself was not energized (basically I was told when I was on the tower just don't touch that cable and that is all you have to worry about). We had a full Canopy cluster, and two Canopy backhauls all running PoE with sync. Shielded CAT5 cable inside EMT conduit. Conduit was grounded to the tower, but I don't recall how the CMM was grounded at the bottom. Daniel White 3-dB Networks -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 4:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower Are you sure it is non-live? Normally AM antennas are the whole tower. Is it sitting on an insulator at the base? Do you know the power of the transmitter? 160 feet sure fits the mold of a quarter wavelength vertical. Like 1460 kHz. If it is shunt fed, then you will have a tap up about a quarter of the way energizing the whole tower. Or it could be base fed and there would be a matching network/loading network in a transformer shed or enclosure at the base. Either way if it is an active AM tower of that length the whole tower most certaily has current on it. The best way would be to run the POE ethernet cable in the exact same manner as the tower light (presuming it has one, at 160' that is not a requirement). You can make a choke coil out of copper tubing and run the cat5 through the tubing. There are also commercially made isolation transformers for doing this but each is customized to the type of antenna and the frequency. Be better yet if you can run it in conduit clear to where you are mounting the equipment. Lots of factors would influence whether or not you would want to ground the shield and if so where. The voltage on a grounded quarter wave stick goes from zero to infinity (in theory). The main thing is to keep the AM current off the CAT 5 totally if you can. If you cannot, you would want to bond the shield to the tower every 10 feet to keep the magnitude of the current low. - Original Message - From: Doug Ratcliffe do...@dwwfl.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 12:06 PM Subject: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower We've had for many years access to a non-live AM radio tower (by non- live, the antennas are mounted on the sides of the tower, insulated, look like long steel cables). For a long time we ran AC to the top, into a small choke/transformer (some little gizmo) that filtered the AM radio signal, along with a fiber cable to the bottom. A lightning strike zapped all the equipment a few years ago, and we never replaced it. The time has come that we need to put equipment on it again. I'd like to move towards running POE to the bottom, and at the top would be Nanostations 2/5's. The tower is 160 ft tall self-supporting. I was thinking about running shielded twisted pair cable. In the past we've been able to run short lengths of CAT5 at the top from the main power box, but the last time any experimentation was done with CAT5 was with a former partner, and the now deceased engineer that used to run the radio station. Would the shielded cable remove the interference/static charge/etc or is this just not possible? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower
The tower is a 4-leg self supporting tower, it was built a long time ago, built from what I've heard in the mid 1900's... The antennas for the tower are isolated from the tower, it appears that there are 3 vertical antennas, attached with copper tubing from the transmitter to each of the antennas (which are on isolated standoffs, top to bottom. There is some kind of matching transformer in the building under the tower. The tower is 10kW, 1450 AM (good guess on the frequency!).. - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown - 3 ch...@beehive.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower Are you sure it is non-live? Normally AM antennas are the whole tower. Is it sitting on an insulator at the base? Do you know the power of the transmitter? 160 feet sure fits the mold of a quarter wavelength vertical. Like 1460 kHz. If it is shunt fed, then you will have a tap up about a quarter of the way energizing the whole tower. Or it could be base fed and there would be a matching network/loading network in a transformer shed or enclosure at the base. Either way if it is an active AM tower of that length the whole tower most certaily has current on it. The best way would be to run the POE ethernet cable in the exact same manner as the tower light (presuming it has one, at 160' that is not a requirement). You can make a choke coil out of copper tubing and run the cat5 through the tubing. There are also commercially made isolation transformers for doing this but each is customized to the type of antenna and the frequency. Be better yet if you can run it in conduit clear to where you are mounting the equipment. Lots of factors would influence whether or not you would want to ground the shield and if so where. The voltage on a grounded quarter wave stick goes from zero to infinity (in theory). The main thing is to keep the AM current off the CAT 5 totally if you can. If you cannot, you would want to bond the shield to the tower every 10 feet to keep the magnitude of the current low. - Original Message - From: Doug Ratcliffe do...@dwwfl.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 12:06 PM Subject: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower We've had for many years access to a non-live AM radio tower (by non-live, the antennas are mounted on the sides of the tower, insulated, look like long steel cables). For a long time we ran AC to the top, into a small choke/transformer (some little gizmo) that filtered the AM radio signal, along with a fiber cable to the bottom. A lightning strike zapped all the equipment a few years ago, and we never replaced it. The time has come that we need to put equipment on it again. I'd like to move towards running POE to the bottom, and at the top would be Nanostations 2/5's. The tower is 160 ft tall self-supporting. I was thinking about running shielded twisted pair cable. In the past we've been able to run short lengths of CAT5 at the top from the main power box, but the last time any experimentation was done with CAT5 was with a former partner, and the now deceased engineer that used to run the radio station. Would the shielded cable remove the interference/static charge/etc or is this just not possible? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower
... the TRANSMITTER is 10 kW, not the tower... Doug Ratcliffe wrote: The tower is a 4-leg self supporting tower, it was built a long time ago, built from what I've heard in the mid 1900's... The antennas for the tower are isolated from the tower, it appears that there are 3 vertical antennas, attached with copper tubing from the transmitter to each of the antennas (which are on isolated standoffs, top to bottom. There is some kind of matching transformer in the building under the tower. The tower is 10kW, 1450 AM (good guess on the frequency!).. - Original Message - From: "Chuck McCown - 3" ch...@beehive.net To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower Are you sure it is non-live? Normally AM antennas are the whole tower. Is it sitting on an insulator at the base? Do you know the power of the transmitter? 160 feet sure fits the mold of a quarter wavelength vertical. Like 1460 kHz. If it is shunt fed, then you will have a tap up about a quarter of the way energizing the whole tower. Or it could be base fed and there would be a matching network/loading network in a transformer shed or enclosure at the base. Either way if it is an active AM tower of that length the whole tower most certaily has current on it. The best way would be to run the POE ethernet cable in the exact same manner as the tower light (presuming it has one, at 160' that is not a requirement). You can make a choke coil out of copper tubing and run the cat5 through the tubing. There are also commercially made isolation transformers for doing this but each is customized to the type of antenna and the frequency. Be better yet if you can run it in conduit clear to where you are mounting the equipment. Lots of factors would influence whether or not you would want to ground the shield and if so where. The voltage on a grounded quarter wave stick goes from zero to infinity (in theory). The main thing is to keep the AM current off the CAT 5 totally if you can. If you cannot, you would want to bond the shield to the tower every 10 feet to keep the magnitude of the current low. - Original Message - From: "Doug Ratcliffe" do...@dwwfl.com To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 12:06 PM Subject: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower We've had for many years access to a non-live AM radio tower (by non-live, the antennas are mounted on the sides of the tower, insulated, look like long steel cables). For a long time we ran AC to the top, into a small choke/transformer (some little gizmo) that filtered the AM radio signal, along with a fiber cable to the bottom. A lightning strike zapped all the equipment a few years ago, and we never replaced it. The time has come that we need to put equipment on it again. I'd like to move towards running POE to the bottom, and at the top would be Nanostations 2/5's. The tower is 160 ft tall self-supporting. I was thinking about running shielded twisted pair cable. In the past we've been able to run short lengths of CAT5 at the top from the main power box, but the last time any experimentation was done with CAT5 was with a former partner, and the now deceased engineer that used to run the radio station. Would the shielded cable remove the interference/static charge/etc or is this just not possible? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" WISPs - Do you know where your customers are? For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn
Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower
* Jack Unger wrote, On 1/3/2009 8:15 PM: ... the TRANSMITTER is 10 kW, not the tower... Doug Ratcliffe wrote: The tower is a 4-leg self supporting tower, it was built a long time ago, built from what I've heard in the mid 1900's... The antennas for the tower are isolated from the tower, it appears that there are 3 vertical antennas, attached with copper tubing from the transmitter to each of the antennas (which are on isolated standoffs, top to bottom. There is some kind of matching transformer in the building under the tower. The tower is 10kW, 1450 AM (good guess on the frequency!).. snip What is the callsign of the station we can then find out the true power from the FCC DB. Leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower
* Doug Ratcliffe wrote, On 1/3/2009 7:33 PM: The tower is a 4-leg self supporting tower, it was built a long time ago, built from what I've heard in the mid 1900's... The antennas for the tower are isolated from the tower, it appears that there are 3 vertical antennas, attached with copper tubing from the transmitter to each of the antennas (which are on isolated standoffs, top to bottom. There is some kind of matching transformer in the building under the tower. The tower is 10kW, 1450 AM (good guess on the frequency!).. I think 1450 is a CLASS IV (or what was a CLASS IV) freq and should be 1kW. What's the callsign and location? leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower
I am guessing WMFJ - Original Message - From: Leon D. Zetekoff, NCE wa4...@backwoodswireless.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower * Doug Ratcliffe wrote, On 1/3/2009 7:33 PM: The tower is a 4-leg self supporting tower, it was built a long time ago, built from what I've heard in the mid 1900's... The antennas for the tower are isolated from the tower, it appears that there are 3 vertical antennas, attached with copper tubing from the transmitter to each of the antennas (which are on isolated standoffs, top to bottom. There is some kind of matching transformer in the building under the tower. The tower is 10kW, 1450 AM (good guess on the frequency!).. I think 1450 is a CLASS IV (or what was a CLASS IV) freq and should be 1kW. What's the callsign and location? leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
