Re: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)

2006-10-12 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
The way around it is to book it as an install Tom.  YES you should be paid 
for work you do for people.  That includes a site survey.  If they just want 
to look, than you go out of them.  If they want to buy it's for you.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)


There is a big difference between not getting the subscriber because they 
changed their mind versus they couldn't get signal.
If the customer wants your service, and you can;t get it to them, should 
you be able to charge for the trip?
If I could, I'd make more money doing site surveys than providing service. 
With that policy, its just a matter of time before the best practice would 
be start advertising in every publication and promising the world. Whats 
wrong with over promising, if the end result will be just that they don;t 
qualify, and you are off the hook for delivering? For these reason, and 
credibilty I believe it is inappropriate to charge for site surveys.  The 
ISP's job is to know develop systems for accurate pre-qual and know their 
target areas, and have efficient site survey methods, adequate to reduce 
the loss associated with the site surveys. I charge higher install fees, 
because the people that are successfull, subsidize the cost of those that 
are not.


However, I feel getting a deposit is not a bad idea, and I see no reason 
to refund money for people that change their mind after the work was 
performed successfully.  The problem is how to do it legally and amicably. 
Sure you can get a Credit Card, but they can protest the charge unless you 
have signed paperwork. They now need a fax machine to get you the 
paperwork. Most residential users don't have this.  So now the survey 
process gets delayed several days, until they get to the office to fax the 
paper work, in the mean time you lost the opportunity to send the tech by 
that was just down the street already.  Its jsut so much easier to send a 
contract with the installer to get signed when he arrives. And are they 
really going to sign it, if you aren't successful and there?


I guess it depends on how far away the installation is, on wether its 
worth the risk to go without getting a deposit. Instead what we do is that 
we jsut make everyone wait for a surevey until its cost effective and 
convenient for us to do it, and its free. If someone wants us to escalate 
the survey, which increases our cost, then we charge them a priority fee 
upfront (non-refundable).  There is also now a demand that has been 
established by the customer, and providers cost for special treatment 
recognized by custoemr, and an approival that he doesn't mind paying if 
you are unsuccessful.


Money lost on site surveys is a sore point for us as well, but I'm just 
not sure there is a good away around it, and part of teh cost of doing 
business. I think instead a provider needs to think about what markets he 
serves are cost effective for them to serve, and how to cost effectively 
serve them. This is the difference between soliciting qualified leads and 
advertising blindly.  The way we handled it for residential is that we 
send the van to the area that we want to serve, and he does a site survey 
from the road in front of every house, and if they qualify, they get a 
flyer on their door. Its cheaper to survey all the homes at once even if 
tehy aren't prospects than it is to go back and survey a few individually 
as they order.  When a neighbor refers a new client to us, we pull up 
their address, and go, Yes we already sureveyed you, you do or do not 
qualify.



Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Blair Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 12:06 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)



I would not even consider charging for a site survey.

Way too many possibilitys for bad press.  I simply consider it a cost of 
doing business.  Rarely do we have someone decline service if it can be 
done at our $199/$299 install rate.  I have declines on the $799+ 
installs, but I expect those.


Blair Davis
West Michigan Wireless ISP

Justin Wilson wrote:

I would not be happy about the $29.95 fee. If you can get away with 
it go right ahead.  I look at it the customer is betting $29.95 that 
they can get service.  I would rather have it here if they can get 
service, and they don't then they are charged $29.95. If they can't get 
service why should they have to pay

Re: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)

2006-10-10 Thread KyWiFi LLC
Will 700Mhz not work like the local tv station broadcast?
I mean, if someone can pick up a local tv station's broadcast via
an antenna, they should be able to receive broadband via the same
spectrum, right? Are you saying that 700Mhz is not much better
than 900Mhz?


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - 
From: Chris Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 7:17 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)


You are still going to need to do site surveys w/ 700. If you are in rolling
terrain, the 700 is going to have the same problem with dirt as 900

c

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of KyWiFi LLC
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 2:07 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)


I can see both sides. Since we haven't implemented the new policy
yet, we may just charge the $29.99 site survey fee if they decline
service after a successful site survey. We only charge $99 for installation
and our CPE is provided on a free-to-use basis as we are competing
against one other WISP, cable and DSL. Out of 10 site surveys, only
3 or 4 are successful due to the rolling terrain in our coverage area and
we have (17) broadcast sites! Now if we were using 900Mhz, we could
probably double our site survey success rate but fewer people would be
interested because of the cost of the 900Mhz CPE which we would have
to pass along to them in order for it to be feasible.

In a perfect world, prospects should expect to pay for an onsite site
survey because there are costs involved (labor and gas). Too bad we
don't live in a perfect world.

Hopefully unlicensed 700Mhz will become available in our lifetime and
we can avoid site surveys altogether. I wonder though if it will be less
costly than 900Mhz gear when/if that time does come?


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message -
From: Justin Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:48 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)


I would not be happy about the $29.95 fee. If you can get away
with it go right ahead.  I look at it the customer is betting $29.95 that
they can get service.  I would rather have it here if they can get
service, and they don't then they are charged $29.95. If they can't get
service why should they have to pay $29.95?  That would be like going to
buy a new car. You want a Blue one with a stick shift. The dealer can't
get you one, but they charge you $29.95 for looking. I think the word will
spread pretty quickly. Customers are a weird beast. I can see the coffee
shop conversations now:

  Joe:Yeah that company came out and did a site survey to see if
they could get me wireless
  Bob  How did that go?
  Joe The installer guy waived an antenna around and said he could
not get me a signal
  Bob Too bad, so what now?
  Joe I don't know, but I got charged $29.95 for him coming out
  Bob What? They are supposed to come out next week. I don't want
them charging me $29.95 if they can't hook me up.

  Just my .02
  Justin

--
Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Access - WISP Consulting - Tower Climbing
Web: http://www.mtin.net
Web: http://www.jwilson.ws


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RE: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)

2006-10-10 Thread chris cooper
No- what Im saying is that rolling, or hilly terrain is inherently
difficult to cover.  We are in pretty hilly terrain, use 900 and its
rough at times.  We almost always do signal testing for each prospect.
We have paging down as low as 158.7 that still wont propagate
everywhere. A big high ridge is a real signal killer.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of KyWiFi LLC
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 8:08 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)

Will 700Mhz not work like the local tv station broadcast?
I mean, if someone can pick up a local tv station's broadcast via
an antenna, they should be able to receive broadband via the same
spectrum, right? Are you saying that 700Mhz is not much better
than 900Mhz?


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - 
From: Chris Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 7:17 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)


You are still going to need to do site surveys w/ 700. If you are in
rolling
terrain, the 700 is going to have the same problem with dirt as 900

c

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of KyWiFi LLC
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 2:07 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)


I can see both sides. Since we haven't implemented the new policy
yet, we may just charge the $29.99 site survey fee if they decline
service after a successful site survey. We only charge $99 for
installation
and our CPE is provided on a free-to-use basis as we are competing
against one other WISP, cable and DSL. Out of 10 site surveys, only
3 or 4 are successful due to the rolling terrain in our coverage area
and
we have (17) broadcast sites! Now if we were using 900Mhz, we could
probably double our site survey success rate but fewer people would be
interested because of the cost of the 900Mhz CPE which we would have
to pass along to them in order for it to be feasible.

In a perfect world, prospects should expect to pay for an onsite site
survey because there are costs involved (labor and gas). Too bad we
don't live in a perfect world.

Hopefully unlicensed 700Mhz will become available in our lifetime and
we can avoid site surveys altogether. I wonder though if it will be less
costly than 900Mhz gear when/if that time does come?


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message -
From: Justin Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:48 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)


I would not be happy about the $29.95 fee. If you can get away
with it go right ahead.  I look at it the customer is betting $29.95
that
they can get service.  I would rather have it here if they can get
service, and they don't then they are charged $29.95. If they can't get
service why should they have to pay $29.95?  That would be like going to
buy a new car. You want a Blue one with a stick shift. The dealer can't
get you one, but they charge you $29.95 for looking. I think the word
will
spread pretty quickly. Customers are a weird beast. I can see the coffee
shop conversations now:

  Joe:Yeah that company came out and did a site survey to see if
they could get me wireless
  Bob  How did that go?
  Joe The installer guy waived an antenna around and said he could
not get me a signal
  Bob Too bad, so what now?
  Joe I don't know, but I got charged $29.95 for him coming out
  Bob What? They are supposed to come out next week. I don't want
them charging me $29.95 if they can't hook me up.

  Just my .02
  Justin

--
Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Access - WISP Consulting - Tower Climbing
Web: http://www.mtin.net
Web: http://www.jwilson.ws


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Re: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)

2006-10-10 Thread Leon D. Zetekoff

KyWiFi LLC wrote:

Will 700Mhz not work like the local tv station broadcast?
I mean, if someone can pick up a local tv station's broadcast via
an antenna, they should be able to receive broadband via the same
spectrum, right? Are you saying that 700Mhz is not much better
than 900Mhz?
  
Remember broadcast stations have much higher transmit power and ERP than 
fixed broadband wireless. 700 is a little better propagation wise, but 
the key is antenna again and placement.


Leon


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - 
From: Chris Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 7:17 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)


You are still going to need to do site surveys w/ 700. If you are in rolling
terrain, the 700 is going to have the same problem with dirt as 900

c

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of KyWiFi LLC
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 2:07 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)


I can see both sides. Since we haven't implemented the new policy
yet, we may just charge the $29.99 site survey fee if they decline
service after a successful site survey. We only charge $99 for installation
and our CPE is provided on a free-to-use basis as we are competing
against one other WISP, cable and DSL. Out of 10 site surveys, only
3 or 4 are successful due to the rolling terrain in our coverage area and
we have (17) broadcast sites! Now if we were using 900Mhz, we could
probably double our site survey success rate but fewer people would be
interested because of the cost of the 900Mhz CPE which we would have
to pass along to them in order for it to be feasible.

In a perfect world, prospects should expect to pay for an onsite site
survey because there are costs involved (labor and gas). Too bad we
don't live in a perfect world.

Hopefully unlicensed 700Mhz will become available in our lifetime and
we can avoid site surveys altogether. I wonder though if it will be less
costly than 900Mhz gear when/if that time does come?


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message -
From: Justin Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:48 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)


I would not be happy about the $29.95 fee. If you can get away
with it go right ahead.  I look at it the customer is betting $29.95 that
they can get service.  I would rather have it here if they can get
service, and they don't then they are charged $29.95. If they can't get
service why should they have to pay $29.95?  That would be like going to
buy a new car. You want a Blue one with a stick shift. The dealer can't
get you one, but they charge you $29.95 for looking. I think the word will
spread pretty quickly. Customers are a weird beast. I can see the coffee
shop conversations now:

  Joe:Yeah that company came out and did a site survey to see if
they could get me wireless
  Bob  How did that go?
  Joe The installer guy waived an antenna around and said he could
not get me a signal
  Bob Too bad, so what now?
  Joe I don't know, but I got charged $29.95 for him coming out
  Bob What? They are supposed to come out next week. I don't want
them charging me $29.95 if they can't hook me up.

  Just my .02
  Justin
  


begin:vcard
fn:Leon Zetekoff
n:Zetekoff;Leon
org:BackWoods Wireless
adr;dom:;;505 B Main Street;Blandon;PA;19510
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:Proprietor
tel;work:484-335-9920
tel;fax:484-335-9921
tel;home:610-916-0230
tel;cell:610-223-8642
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
url:http://www.backwoodswireless.net
version:2.1
end:vcard

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Re: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)

2006-10-09 Thread KyWiFi LLC
I can see both sides. Since we haven't implemented the new policy
yet, we may just charge the $29.99 site survey fee if they decline
service after a successful site survey. We only charge $99 for installation
and our CPE is provided on a free-to-use basis as we are competing
against one other WISP, cable and DSL. Out of 10 site surveys, only
3 or 4 are successful due to the rolling terrain in our coverage area and
we have (17) broadcast sites! Now if we were using 900Mhz, we could
probably double our site survey success rate but fewer people would be
interested because of the cost of the 900Mhz CPE which we would have
to pass along to them in order for it to be feasible.

In a perfect world, prospects should expect to pay for an onsite site
survey because there are costs involved (labor and gas). Too bad we
don't live in a perfect world.

Hopefully unlicensed 700Mhz will become available in our lifetime and
we can avoid site surveys altogether. I wonder though if it will be less
costly than 900Mhz gear when/if that time does come?


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - 
From: Justin Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:48 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)


I would not be happy about the $29.95 fee. If you can get away 
with it go right ahead.  I look at it the customer is betting $29.95 that 
they can get service.  I would rather have it here if they can get 
service, and they don't then they are charged $29.95. If they can't get 
service why should they have to pay $29.95?  That would be like going to 
buy a new car. You want a Blue one with a stick shift. The dealer can't 
get you one, but they charge you $29.95 for looking. I think the word will 
spread pretty quickly. Customers are a weird beast. I can see the coffee 
shop conversations now:

  Joe:Yeah that company came out and did a site survey to see if 
they could get me wireless
  Bob  How did that go?
  Joe The installer guy waived an antenna around and said he could 
not get me a signal
  Bob Too bad, so what now?
  Joe I don't know, but I got charged $29.95 for him coming out
  Bob What? They are supposed to come out next week. I don't want 
them charging me $29.95 if they can't hook me up.

  Just my .02
  Justin

--
Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Access - WISP Consulting - Tower Climbing
Web: http://www.mtin.net
Web: http://www.jwilson.ws


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RE: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)

2006-10-09 Thread Chris Cooper
You are still going to need to do site surveys w/ 700. If you are in rolling
terrain, the 700 is going to have the same problem with dirt as 900

c

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of KyWiFi LLC
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 2:07 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)


I can see both sides. Since we haven't implemented the new policy
yet, we may just charge the $29.99 site survey fee if they decline
service after a successful site survey. We only charge $99 for installation
and our CPE is provided on a free-to-use basis as we are competing
against one other WISP, cable and DSL. Out of 10 site surveys, only
3 or 4 are successful due to the rolling terrain in our coverage area and
we have (17) broadcast sites! Now if we were using 900Mhz, we could
probably double our site survey success rate but fewer people would be
interested because of the cost of the 900Mhz CPE which we would have
to pass along to them in order for it to be feasible.

In a perfect world, prospects should expect to pay for an onsite site
survey because there are costs involved (labor and gas). Too bad we
don't live in a perfect world.

Hopefully unlicensed 700Mhz will become available in our lifetime and
we can avoid site surveys altogether. I wonder though if it will be less
costly than 900Mhz gear when/if that time does come?


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message -
From: Justin Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:48 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)


I would not be happy about the $29.95 fee. If you can get away
with it go right ahead.  I look at it the customer is betting $29.95 that
they can get service.  I would rather have it here if they can get
service, and they don't then they are charged $29.95. If they can't get
service why should they have to pay $29.95?  That would be like going to
buy a new car. You want a Blue one with a stick shift. The dealer can't
get you one, but they charge you $29.95 for looking. I think the word will
spread pretty quickly. Customers are a weird beast. I can see the coffee
shop conversations now:

  Joe:Yeah that company came out and did a site survey to see if
they could get me wireless
  Bob  How did that go?
  Joe The installer guy waived an antenna around and said he could
not get me a signal
  Bob Too bad, so what now?
  Joe I don't know, but I got charged $29.95 for him coming out
  Bob What? They are supposed to come out next week. I don't want
them charging me $29.95 if they can't hook me up.

  Just my .02
  Justin

--
Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Access - WISP Consulting - Tower Climbing
Web: http://www.mtin.net
Web: http://www.jwilson.ws


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Re: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)

2006-10-09 Thread Pete Davis
I can't see charging for a failed site survey, but we do turn down 
customers that we know that we cannot reach. If we fail 3 customers on 
Pebble Ridge Drive, then customer numbers 4 and 5 probably won't get a 
truck roll, but the HOA in the area might get a call to see if we can 
put in an AP on that street. If we can make something big and (not too) 
ugly work, we might call back all 5 customers, as well as their neighbors.


pd

KyWiFi LLC wrote:

I can see both sides. Since we haven't implemented the new policy
yet, we may just charge the $29.99 site survey fee if they decline
service after a successful site survey. We only charge $99 for installation
and our CPE is provided on a free-to-use basis as we are competing
against one other WISP, cable and DSL. Out of 10 site surveys, only
3 or 4 are successful due to the rolling terrain in our coverage area and
we have (17) broadcast sites! Now if we were using 900Mhz, we could
probably double our site survey success rate but fewer people would be
interested because of the cost of the 900Mhz CPE which we would have
to pass along to them in order for it to be feasible.

In a perfect world, prospects should expect to pay for an onsite site
survey because there are costs involved (labor and gas). Too bad we
don't live in a perfect world.

Hopefully unlicensed 700Mhz will become available in our lifetime and
we can avoid site surveys altogether. I wonder though if it will be less
costly than 900Mhz gear when/if that time does come?


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - 
From: Justin Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:48 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)


I would not be happy about the $29.95 fee. If you can get away 
with it go right ahead.  I look at it the customer is betting $29.95 that 
they can get service.  I would rather have it here if they can get 
service, and they don't then they are charged $29.95. If they can't get 
service why should they have to pay $29.95?  That would be like going to 
buy a new car. You want a Blue one with a stick shift. The dealer can't 
get you one, but they charge you $29.95 for looking. I think the word will 
spread pretty quickly. Customers are a weird beast. I can see the coffee 
shop conversations now:


  Joe:Yeah that company came out and did a site survey to see if 
they could get me wireless

  Bob  How did that go?
  Joe The installer guy waived an antenna around and said he could 
not get me a signal

  Bob Too bad, so what now?
  Joe I don't know, but I got charged $29.95 for him coming out
  Bob What? They are supposed to come out next week. I don't want 
them charging me $29.95 if they can't hook me up.


  Just my .02
  Justin

--
Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Access - WISP Consulting - Tower Climbing
Web: http://www.mtin.net
Web: http://www.jwilson.ws


  


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Re: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)

2006-10-09 Thread Cliff Leboeuf
We will only do a site survey after we have a signed contract.

I learned after my second one over five years ago...
Husband call to see if we could provide them wireless service. Sent team out
to verify. Once we verified that we could provide them service, husband
responded 'well, I'll check with the wife and get back with you...'

Since then, we require our contract to be signed before we attempt a site
survey. If our survey is successful, we continue with the install as we have
a signed contract. If our survey fails, there is no charge to the customer.
We thank them for the opportunity and keep their information available in
case we add a POP that may allow them to get service.

- Cliff



On 10/8/06 11:06 PM, Blair Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I would not even consider charging for a site survey.
 
 Way too many possibilitys for bad press.  I simply consider it a cost of
 doing business.  Rarely do we have someone decline service if it can be
 done at our $199/$299 install rate.  I have declines on the $799+
 installs, but I expect those.
 
 Blair Davis
 West Michigan Wireless ISP
 
 Justin Wilson wrote:
 
 I would not be happy about the $29.95 fee. If you can get away
 with it go right ahead.  I look at it the customer is betting $29.95
 that they can get service.  I would rather have it here if they can
 get service, and they don't then they are charged $29.95. If they
 can't get service why should they have to pay $29.95?  That would be
 like going to buy a new car. You want a Blue one with a stick shift.
 The dealer can't get you one, but they charge you $29.95 for looking.
 I think the word will spread pretty quickly. Customers are a weird
 beast. I can see the coffee shop conversations now:
 
 Joe:Yeah that company came out and did a site survey to see if
 they could get me wireless
 Bob  How did that go?
 Joe The installer guy waived an antenna around and said he could
 not get me a signal
 Bob Too bad, so what now?
 Joe I don't know, but I got charged $29.95 for him coming out
 Bob What? They are supposed to come out next week. I don't want
 them charging me $29.95 if they can't hook me up.
 
 Just my .02
 Justin
 
 -- 
 Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Access - WISP Consulting - Tower Climbing
 Web: http://www.mtin.net
 Web: http://www.jwilson.ws
 
 

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Re: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)

2006-10-09 Thread Mark Nash - Lists
We have the same policy as this, but without the contract.  Had the same
problem, usually the husband 'checking with the wife'.  I tell people that
we come out to install service.  The first part of the installation is a
signal test.  If it is successful, then we continue installing service and
settle up for the installation fee of $199 when we're done.  If it is NOT
successful, we pack up and go away and they don't owe us anything.  It's
easy for people to agree to this if they want the service.  If they are the
type that doesn't know what they want, they don't waste our time.

This solution works great because people know that if we get a good signal,
they're going to receive our service and pay when we're done.  I think it
works well because it's more of an impulsive thing, because we're there and
they feel committed.  If we did the site survey then had to come back to
install, there is time for second thoughts and I imagine a number of
successful site surveys would not turn into customers.  The signed contract
and/or down payment would eliminate/discourage this.

The problem I have now is that we now want to pay a contractor for
installations, but I don't want to pay for alot of failed installations.  If
I had my way, all installations would be 100% positive.  I don't want the
contractor going out on site and not receiving payment, either...that would
make for a bad relationship between us and the contractor.

Perhaps a solution for us would be to have a contract and/or down payment
and do the site surveys ourselves. This would save us the time needed to do
the installations, and would solve my problem of not wanting to pay for
unsuccessful site surveys.  That seems like a good next step for us.

Mark Nash
Network Engineer
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax

- Original Message - 
From: Cliff Leboeuf [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 8:10 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)


 We will only do a site survey after we have a signed contract.

 I learned after my second one over five years ago...
 Husband call to see if we could provide them wireless service. Sent team
out
 to verify. Once we verified that we could provide them service, husband
 responded 'well, I'll check with the wife and get back with you...'

 Since then, we require our contract to be signed before we attempt a site
 survey. If our survey is successful, we continue with the install as we
have
 a signed contract. If our survey fails, there is no charge to the
customer.
 We thank them for the opportunity and keep their information available in
 case we add a POP that may allow them to get service.

 - Cliff



 On 10/8/06 11:06 PM, Blair Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  I would not even consider charging for a site survey.
 
  Way too many possibilitys for bad press.  I simply consider it a cost of
  doing business.  Rarely do we have someone decline service if it can be
  done at our $199/$299 install rate.  I have declines on the $799+
  installs, but I expect those.
 
  Blair Davis
  West Michigan Wireless ISP
 
  Justin Wilson wrote:
 
  I would not be happy about the $29.95 fee. If you can get away
  with it go right ahead.  I look at it the customer is betting $29.95
  that they can get service.  I would rather have it here if they can
  get service, and they don't then they are charged $29.95. If they
  can't get service why should they have to pay $29.95?  That would be
  like going to buy a new car. You want a Blue one with a stick shift.
  The dealer can't get you one, but they charge you $29.95 for looking.
  I think the word will spread pretty quickly. Customers are a weird
  beast. I can see the coffee shop conversations now:
 
  Joe:Yeah that company came out and did a site survey to see if
  they could get me wireless
  Bob  How did that go?
  Joe The installer guy waived an antenna around and said he could
  not get me a signal
  Bob Too bad, so what now?
  Joe I don't know, but I got charged $29.95 for him coming out
  Bob What? They are supposed to come out next week. I don't want
  them charging me $29.95 if they can't hook me up.
 
  Just my .02
  Justin
 
  -- 
  Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Access - WISP Consulting - Tower Climbing
  Web: http://www.mtin.net
  Web: http://www.jwilson.ws
 
 

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Re: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)

2006-10-08 Thread Blair Davis

I would not even consider charging for a site survey.

Way too many possibilitys for bad press.  I simply consider it a cost of 
doing business.  Rarely do we have someone decline service if it can be 
done at our $199/$299 install rate.  I have declines on the $799+ 
installs, but I expect those.


Blair Davis
West Michigan Wireless ISP

Justin Wilson wrote:

I would not be happy about the $29.95 fee. If you can get away 
with it go right ahead.  I look at it the customer is betting $29.95 
that they can get service.  I would rather have it here if they can 
get service, and they don't then they are charged $29.95. If they 
can't get service why should they have to pay $29.95?  That would be 
like going to buy a new car. You want a Blue one with a stick shift. 
The dealer can't get you one, but they charge you $29.95 for looking. 
I think the word will spread pretty quickly. Customers are a weird 
beast. I can see the coffee shop conversations now:


Joe:Yeah that company came out and did a site survey to see if 
they could get me wireless

Bob  How did that go?
Joe The installer guy waived an antenna around and said he could 
not get me a signal

Bob Too bad, so what now?
Joe I don't know, but I got charged $29.95 for him coming out
Bob What? They are supposed to come out next week. I don't want 
them charging me $29.95 if they can't hook me up.


Just my .02
Justin

--
Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Access - WISP Consulting - Tower Climbing
Web: http://www.mtin.net
Web: http://www.jwilson.ws




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Re: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)

2006-10-08 Thread David E. Smith

Blair Davis wrote:

I would not even consider charging for a site survey.

Way too many possibilitys for bad press.  I simply consider it a cost of 
doing business.  Rarely do we have someone decline service if it can be 
done at our $199/$299 install rate.  I have declines on the $799+ 
installs, but I expect those.


You must have better customers (or potential customers) than I do... 
Over the past three years my company has done hundreds of site surveys 
for folks that could get our service but never actually did, for 
whatever reason. That's hundreds of pay guy to drive out there and 
put gas in truck and it all adds up.


My boss recently decided to split the difference on site surveys - ask 
for a small deposit up-front, which is refunded if we can't get service. 
That way, our costs are covered, and so far it seems to be discouraging 
folks that aren't seriously interested in our service, which is exactly 
what we want. (This is actually a new-ish policy, so check back in a few 
months and I'll let you know whether it's really working like it should.)


David Smith
MVN.net
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