Re: [WISPA] Spammers or not?

2008-10-24 Thread Isp Operator

And what the internet has told you, is that we AREN'T GOING TO ASK to 
remove ourselves from lists we DIDN'T ASK TO BE ON.

What a JERK.


Butch Evans wrote:
 On Wed, 22 Oct 2008, Jeff Broadwick wrote:
 
 Personally, I don't mind if someone sends me a single UCE with 
 something that relates to what I do.  I'm even more open to that 
 sort of thing on our Sales@ or Info@ addresses.  What I ask is that 
 I be removed as soon as I tell them I don't want their emails.
 
 The thing that has ALWAYS been troublesome to me is getting off 
 these lists.  It is the reason, frankly, that I approached it as I 
 did.  Either way, I'm not going to continue in this argument or 
 discussion (whatever term you want to apply).
 
 I will say again to all on this list...if you want off the list I 
 created, you have but to ask.
 




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Re: [WISPA] Spammers or not?

2008-10-24 Thread Jeff Broadwick
I thought this thread was closed...
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Isp Operator
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 7:23 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Spammers or not?


And what the internet has told you, is that we AREN'T GOING TO ASK to remove
ourselves from lists we DIDN'T ASK TO BE ON.

What a JERK.


Butch Evans wrote:
 On Wed, 22 Oct 2008, Jeff Broadwick wrote:
 
 Personally, I don't mind if someone sends me a single UCE with 
 something that relates to what I do.  I'm even more open to that sort 
 of thing on our Sales@ or Info@ addresses.  What I ask is that I be 
 removed as soon as I tell them I don't want their emails.
 
 The thing that has ALWAYS been troublesome to me is getting off these 
 lists.  It is the reason, frankly, that I approached it as I did.  
 Either way, I'm not going to continue in this argument or discussion 
 (whatever term you want to apply).
 
 I will say again to all on this list...if you want off the list I 
 created, you have but to ask.
 





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Re: [WISPA] Spammers or not?

2008-10-23 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Butch is a vendor member.  If you got an email from the list it's an ad that 
he paid for one way or another.  That's one of the ways that WISPA earns 
it's money.

laters,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Paul Dowling [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Spammers or not?


I was pissed when Butch Evans sent his spam from the list.  You click a 
link
 to unsubscribe, then they send you another e-mail to verify your
 unsubscription and you have to return the e-mail or click on a link. 
 Double
 opt-out?!?!?!  I just blocked his whole domain in our spam filter for the
 entire network.

 On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 9:47 AM, Paul Dowling 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

 I was pissed when Butch Evans sent his spam from the list.  You click a
 link to unsubscribe, then they send you another e-mail to verify your
 unsubscription and you have to return the e-mail or click on a link. 
 Double
 opt-out?!?!?!  I just blocked his whole domain in our spam filter for the
 entire network.


 On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

 Spam is different from UCE (unsolicited email).

 But I don't normally buy from companies that send me junk mail.

 On the other hand, how do they get ahold of any of us these days?

 Tough call sometimes.

 Of course, they can always PAY for ads on wispa's lists.
 malron

 - Original Message -
 From: Jim Patient [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 6:22 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Spammers or not?


  Is it ethical for vendors to search for WISPs on wispdirectory.com and
  send unsolicited emails to the harvested email addresses?
 
  I've been getting advertisements from vendor members through my WISP
  email addys and aside from a web search for WISPs or this directory, I
  don't know how they would have gotten those email addys.
 
  Jim
 
 
 
 
 
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
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  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




 
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Re: [WISPA] Spammers or not?

2008-10-22 Thread Paul Dowling
I was pissed when Butch Evans sent his spam from the list.  You click a link
to unsubscribe, then they send you another e-mail to verify your
unsubscription and you have to return the e-mail or click on a link.  Double
opt-out?!?!?!  I just blocked his whole domain in our spam filter for the
entire network.

On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 9:47 AM, Paul Dowling [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

 I was pissed when Butch Evans sent his spam from the list.  You click a
 link to unsubscribe, then they send you another e-mail to verify your
 unsubscription and you have to return the e-mail or click on a link.  Double
 opt-out?!?!?!  I just blocked his whole domain in our spam filter for the
 entire network.


 On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

 Spam is different from UCE (unsolicited email).

 But I don't normally buy from companies that send me junk mail.

 On the other hand, how do they get ahold of any of us these days?

 Tough call sometimes.

 Of course, they can always PAY for ads on wispa's lists.
 malron

 - Original Message -
 From: Jim Patient [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 6:22 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Spammers or not?


  Is it ethical for vendors to search for WISPs on wispdirectory.com and
  send unsolicited emails to the harvested email addresses?
 
  I've been getting advertisements from vendor members through my WISP
  email addys and aside from a web search for WISPs or this directory, I
  don't know how they would have gotten those email addys.
 
  Jim
 
 
 
 
 
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




 
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Re: [WISPA] Spammers or not?

2008-10-22 Thread Butch Evans
On Wed, 22 Oct 2008, Paul Dowling wrote:

I was pissed when Butch Evans sent his spam from the list.  You 
click a link to unsubscribe, then they send you another e-mail to 
verify your unsubscription and you have to return the e-mail or 
click on a link.  Double opt-out?!?!?!  I just blocked his whole 
domain in our spam filter for the entire network.

There was no spam sent.  In fact, the original message was intended 
to ask your permission to do so.  The unsubscribe is normal for a 
mailman list.  It is not double opt-out at all.  It is a 
confirmation message.  The reason I configured it that way was so 
that you could be certain you were no longer subscribed.

-- 

*Butch Evans*Professional Network Consultation *
*Network Engineering*MikroTik RouterOS *
*573-276-2879   *ImageStream   *
*http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE   *
*http://blog.butchevans.com/*Wired or wireless Networks*
*http://www.wisp-forums.com/*http://www.wisp-wiki.com/
*Mikrotik Certified Consultant  *Professional Technical Trainer*




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Re: [WISPA] Spammers or not?

2008-10-22 Thread D. Ryan Spott
That is the standard config for mail-man. I think there are well over 10 
digits of this software installed around the planet in this method.

ryan

Butch Evans wrote:
 On Wed, 22 Oct 2008, Paul Dowling wrote:

   
 I was pissed when Butch Evans sent his spam from the list.  You 
 click a link to unsubscribe, then they send you another e-mail to 
 verify your unsubscription and you have to return the e-mail or 
 click on a link.  Double opt-out?!?!?!  I just blocked his whole 
 domain in our spam filter for the entire network.
 

 There was no spam sent.  In fact, the original message was intended 
 to ask your permission to do so.  The unsubscribe is normal for a 
 mailman list.  It is not double opt-out at all.  It is a 
 confirmation message.  The reason I configured it that way was so 
 that you could be certain you were no longer subscribed.

   



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Re: [WISPA] Spammers or not?

2008-10-22 Thread Paul Dowling
The definition of spam is an unsolicited e-mail.  Obviously we didn't ask
you to sendus the request so it was an unsolicited e-mail.  Just because you
politely ask to
send spam doesn't make it right.

On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 1:43 PM, Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Wed, 22 Oct 2008, Paul Dowling wrote:

 I was pissed when Butch Evans sent his spam from the list.  You
 click a link to unsubscribe, then they send you another e-mail to
 verify your unsubscription and you have to return the e-mail or
 click on a link.  Double opt-out?!?!?!  I just blocked his whole
 domain in our spam filter for the entire network.

 There was no spam sent.  In fact, the original message was intended
 to ask your permission to do so.  The unsubscribe is normal for a
 mailman list.  It is not double opt-out at all.  It is a
 confirmation message.  The reason I configured it that way was so
 that you could be certain you were no longer subscribed.

 --
 
 *Butch Evans*Professional Network Consultation *
 *Network Engineering*MikroTik RouterOS *
 *573-276-2879   *ImageStream   *
 *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE   *
 *http://blog.butchevans.com/*Wired or wireless Networks*
 *http://www.wisp-forums.com/*http://www.wisp-wiki.com/
 *Mikrotik Certified Consultant  *Professional Technical Trainer*
 



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

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Re: [WISPA] Spammers or not?

2008-10-22 Thread Mike Hammett
Apparently there's the widely accepted terms and then each individual's 
term, which can vary quite widely.


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Paul Dowling [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:10 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Spammers or not?

 The definition of spam is an unsolicited e-mail.  Obviously we didn't ask
 you to sendus the request so it was an unsolicited e-mail.  Just because 
 you
 politely ask to
 send spam doesn't make it right.

 On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 1:43 PM, Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:

 On Wed, 22 Oct 2008, Paul Dowling wrote:

 I was pissed when Butch Evans sent his spam from the list.  You
 click a link to unsubscribe, then they send you another e-mail to
 verify your unsubscription and you have to return the e-mail or
 click on a link.  Double opt-out?!?!?!  I just blocked his whole
 domain in our spam filter for the entire network.

 There was no spam sent.  In fact, the original message was intended
 to ask your permission to do so.  The unsubscribe is normal for a
 mailman list.  It is not double opt-out at all.  It is a
 confirmation message.  The reason I configured it that way was so
 that you could be certain you were no longer subscribed.

 --
 
 *Butch Evans*Professional Network Consultation *
 *Network Engineering*MikroTik RouterOS *
 *573-276-2879   *ImageStream   *
 *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE   *
 *http://blog.butchevans.com/*Wired or wireless Networks*
 *http://www.wisp-forums.com/*http://www.wisp-wiki.com/
 *Mikrotik Certified Consultant  *Professional Technical Trainer*
 



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] Spammers or not?

2008-10-22 Thread Jeff Broadwick
Personally, I don't mind if someone sends me a single UCE with something
that relates to what I do.  I'm even more open to that sort of thing on our
Sales@ or Info@ addresses.  What I ask is that I be removed as soon as I
tell them I don't want their emails.

I've been on two lists for years that I can't seem to get rid of, and one of
them is my alma mater...go figure.  

Regards,

Jeff
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 3:26 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Spammers or not?

Apparently there's the widely accepted terms and then each individual's
term, which can vary quite widely.


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Paul Dowling [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:10 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Spammers or not?

 The definition of spam is an unsolicited e-mail.  Obviously we didn't ask
 you to sendus the request so it was an unsolicited e-mail.  Just because 
 you
 politely ask to
 send spam doesn't make it right.

 On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 1:43 PM, Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:

 On Wed, 22 Oct 2008, Paul Dowling wrote:

 I was pissed when Butch Evans sent his spam from the list.  You
 click a link to unsubscribe, then they send you another e-mail to
 verify your unsubscription and you have to return the e-mail or
 click on a link.  Double opt-out?!?!?!  I just blocked his whole
 domain in our spam filter for the entire network.

 There was no spam sent.  In fact, the original message was intended
 to ask your permission to do so.  The unsubscribe is normal for a
 mailman list.  It is not double opt-out at all.  It is a
 confirmation message.  The reason I configured it that way was so
 that you could be certain you were no longer subscribed.

 --
 
 *Butch Evans*Professional Network Consultation *
 *Network Engineering*MikroTik RouterOS *
 *573-276-2879   *ImageStream   *
 *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE   *
 *http://blog.butchevans.com/*Wired or wireless Networks*
 *http://www.wisp-forums.com/*http://www.wisp-wiki.com/
 *Mikrotik Certified Consultant  *Professional Technical Trainer*
 






 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] Spammers or not?

2008-10-22 Thread Faisal Imtiaz
I would agree with you Jeff.

Associations such as WISPA are a fine balance of Vendors and WISP's, without
either of them the association would just be a casual 'watering hole' -:)

Getting annoyed at a particular vendor or even a particular person is
understandable, but a public 'lashing out' against a Vendor Member(s) of
Association, over a Email Ad's,  on the list is a bit over the top.
 
Just my two cents.

(it takes less time to hit the delete key than the write emails)

-:)

Faisal Imtiaz
SnappyDSL.net

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 3:33 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Spammers or not?

Personally, I don't mind if someone sends me a single UCE with something
that relates to what I do.  I'm even more open to that sort of thing on our
Sales@ or Info@ addresses.  What I ask is that I be removed as soon as I
tell them I don't want their emails.

I've been on two lists for years that I can't seem to get rid of, and one of
them is my alma mater...go figure.  

Regards,

Jeff
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 3:26 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Spammers or not?

Apparently there's the widely accepted terms and then each individual's
term, which can vary quite widely.


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Paul Dowling [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:10 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Spammers or not?

 The definition of spam is an unsolicited e-mail.  Obviously we didn't 
 ask you to sendus the request so it was an unsolicited e-mail.  Just 
 because you politely ask to send spam doesn't make it right.

 On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 1:43 PM, Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 On Wed, 22 Oct 2008, Paul Dowling wrote:

 I was pissed when Butch Evans sent his spam from the list.  You 
 click a link to unsubscribe, then they send you another e-mail to 
 verify your unsubscription and you have to return the e-mail or 
 click on a link.  Double opt-out?!?!?!  I just blocked his whole 
 domain in our spam filter for the entire network.

 There was no spam sent.  In fact, the original message was intended 
 to ask your permission to do so.  The unsubscribe is normal for a 
 mailman list.  It is not double opt-out at all.  It is a 
 confirmation message.  The reason I configured it that way was so 
 that you could be certain you were no longer subscribed.

 --
 
 *Butch Evans*Professional Network Consultation *
 *Network Engineering*MikroTik RouterOS *
 *573-276-2879   *ImageStream   *
 *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE   *
 *http://blog.butchevans.com/*Wired or wireless Networks*
 *http://www.wisp-forums.com/*http://www.wisp-wiki.com/
 *Mikrotik Certified Consultant  *Professional Technical Trainer*
 






 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] Spammers or not?

2008-10-22 Thread Butch Evans
On Wed, 22 Oct 2008, Paul Dowling wrote:

The definition of spam is an unsolicited e-mail.  Obviously we 
didn't ask you to sendus the request so it was an unsolicited 
e-mail.  Just because you politely ask to send spam doesn't make it 
right.

I understand your position.  I'm not trying to justify any action on 
my part, either.  I don't even feel the need to do so.  I recognise 
that the email both frustrated and angered you.  In truth, I even 
agree with your position to a point.  I simply felt like this was a 
better approach than sending the message with the advertisement 
first.  If you disagree, that is your right.  Consider this my 
public apology to you (and others) if you are or were offended by 
this approach.  As the original message stated, anyone who requests 
it either by following the link in the message OR by sending me a 
direct email WILL be removed and will NOT be seeing further email 
from me on this subject.

-- 

*Butch Evans*Professional Network Consultation *
*Network Engineering*MikroTik RouterOS *
*573-276-2879   *ImageStream   *
*http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE   *
*http://blog.butchevans.com/*Wired or wireless Networks*
*http://www.wisp-forums.com/*http://www.wisp-wiki.com/
*Mikrotik Certified Consultant  *Professional Technical Trainer*




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Re: [WISPA] Spammers or not?

2008-10-22 Thread Butch Evans
On Wed, 22 Oct 2008, Jeff Broadwick wrote:

Personally, I don't mind if someone sends me a single UCE with 
something that relates to what I do.  I'm even more open to that 
sort of thing on our Sales@ or Info@ addresses.  What I ask is that 
I be removed as soon as I tell them I don't want their emails.

The thing that has ALWAYS been troublesome to me is getting off 
these lists.  It is the reason, frankly, that I approached it as I 
did.  Either way, I'm not going to continue in this argument or 
discussion (whatever term you want to apply).

I will say again to all on this list...if you want off the list I 
created, you have but to ask.

-- 

*Butch Evans*Professional Network Consultation *
*Network Engineering*MikroTik RouterOS *
*573-276-2879   *ImageStream   *
*http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE   *
*http://blog.butchevans.com/*Wired or wireless Networks*
*http://www.wisp-forums.com/*http://www.wisp-wiki.com/
*Mikrotik Certified Consultant  *Professional Technical Trainer*




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Re: [WISPA] Spammers or not?

2008-10-22 Thread Mark McElvy
I sorry, but by your definition ALL email is spam if you did not
specifically ask for it. If I emailed you directly I would be spamming
you unless I called and asked first.

Mark


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Paul Dowling
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Spammers or not?

The definition of spam is an unsolicited e-mail.  Obviously we didn't
ask
you to sendus the request so it was an unsolicited e-mail.  Just because
you
politely ask to
send spam doesn't make it right.

On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 1:43 PM, Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 On Wed, 22 Oct 2008, Paul Dowling wrote:

 I was pissed when Butch Evans sent his spam from the list.  You
 click a link to unsubscribe, then they send you another e-mail to
 verify your unsubscription and you have to return the e-mail or
 click on a link.  Double opt-out?!?!?!  I just blocked his whole
 domain in our spam filter for the entire network.

 There was no spam sent.  In fact, the original message was intended
 to ask your permission to do so.  The unsubscribe is normal for a
 mailman list.  It is not double opt-out at all.  It is a
 confirmation message.  The reason I configured it that way was so
 that you could be certain you were no longer subscribed.

 --
 
 *Butch Evans*Professional Network Consultation *
 *Network Engineering*MikroTik RouterOS *
 *573-276-2879   *ImageStream   *
 *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE   *
 *http://blog.butchevans.com/*Wired or wireless Networks*
 *http://www.wisp-forums.com/*http://www.wisp-wiki.com/
 *Mikrotik Certified Consultant  *Professional Technical Trainer*
 






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Re: [WISPA] Spammers or not?

2008-10-21 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Spam is different from UCE (unsolicited email).

But I don't normally buy from companies that send me junk mail.

On the other hand, how do they get ahold of any of us these days?

Tough call sometimes.

Of course, they can always PAY for ads on wispa's lists.
malron

- Original Message - 
From: Jim Patient [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 6:22 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Spammers or not?


 Is it ethical for vendors to search for WISPs on wispdirectory.com and
 send unsolicited emails to the harvested email addresses?

 I've been getting advertisements from vendor members through my WISP
 email addys and aside from a web search for WISPs or this directory, I
 don't know how they would have gotten those email addys.

 Jim



 
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