Re: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon

2005-09-28 Thread John Scrivner
Actually I did not speak out of turn. I stand by my original post in all 
details unless you have alternate information. I am not trying to start 
an argument here but I think I spoke 100% the truth in my last post. I 
welcome proof to the contrary but I did not use speculation in my post. 
I stand firm in my belief that WISPA is the only recognized non-profit 
organization of any 501c(x) designation in the WISP industry. I agree 
with your other observations about the importance of being run by WISPs  
but I do not believe we should be taking away any importance in the 
governance aspect of WISPA being established as a 501c6. Being 
classified a 501c6 has more to do with fair governance of the 
organization than it does a tax break. Read the CFRs and check out the 
background of other organizations before you counter a post from me as 
being false please. I was speaking what I believe to be 100% the truth 
and I did it with as much objectivity and neutral bias as I possibly could.

Scriv


Tom DeReggi wrote:

I don't know that the for-profit claims are accurate.  WISPCON is a 
For-Profit.  Last I understood, Part-15 was also a Non-Profit.  
The difference is that Part-15 is an organization where control is 
maintained by an individual, the owner, Michael Anderson (and 
spouse?).  Appropriate, since he is the founder, primary contributor, 
and investor.  That does not make it a for-Profit organization.  
WISPA on the other hand is supposed to be at least in spirit, an 
organization for WISPs controlled by WISPs. How realistic that is, is 
not yet proven, but the ideal is there.


So lets not forget this is not about Profit or Not, its about 
control and/or guaranteeing direction and representation.


Wether or not, Part-15 funnels business to WISPCON and vice versa, or 
that one intity owns both, is irrelevent.  Just as it is irrlevent 
that WISPA may funnel business or offer support to WISPNOG or ISPCON, 
or vice versa.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:09 PM
Subject: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon


There is not a show discount relationship between WISPA and 
WISPCON. WISPCON is not directly tied to WISPA in any way. I believe 
WISPCON has a discount program through Part-15 just as WISPA has with 
ISPCON and WiNOG at times in the past. There have been no discussions 
of offering these discounts for WISPCON but would consider it if an 
opportunity were made available to us. I believe you will continue to 
see options for the discounts for WISPA members through WiNOG and 
ISPCON shows in the future as long as the ownership of these 
organizations see this as a valuable opportunity to help WISPA and 
themselves.


It should be noted that of all organizations mentioned above that 
WISPA is the only one that is federally recognized under CFR # 501c6 
as a non-profit trade association.. Every other entity listed above 
is working to make a profit in their efforts and as such would likely 
be looking to advance  individual  interests over those of the 
industry as a whole. WISPA is designed to promote the efforts of WISP 
operators over and above all other interests. As a matter of law we 
cannot act to allow one WISP to be given more consideration from the 
efforts of this organization than another. This means it is truly 
level ground for our efforts going forward.


This does not mean I think that a for-profit company cannot help 
the efforts of the industry. This is far from true. I am simply 
explaining the different philosophies and how one could benefit more 
than another in certain situations. We are firm believers that WISPA 
is the organization that most fairly represents the interests of 
WISPs regarding policy issues. Other interests will develop where our 
industry can share our collective efforts as we did in the 
Katrina/Rita effort. WISPA will always look for different 
organizations that can help us forward our efforts of better policy 
to help us in our industry. Sometimes the other entities will be 
for-profit and sometimes not.


WISPA has decided at this time to not create another show to the mix 
of what many would say is an over-crowded industry segment. We do 
allow the promotion and advertisement of shows when a show owner 
works with us to provide an opportunity. This could include a 
scenario where WISPA can make money and further our efforts through 
exposure at show events by speaking and or exhibiting..


This may be more information than you were looking for but I wanted 
to make sure everyone understood the dynamics and position of WISPA 
in relation to shows around the industry. I hope that helped.

Scriv


Jory Privett wrote:


WISPA


- Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 
982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, 

Re: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon

2005-09-28 Thread Butch Evans
On Wed, 28 Sep 2005, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

or dislike one or the other fine.  There are more important things
to talk about on this list though.

Does this mean I should hold my toungue (fingers, as it were)
regarding Part 15?  :-)

-- 
Butch Evans
BPS Networks  http://www.bpsnetworks.com/
Bernie, MO
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
(http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html)

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RE: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon

2005-09-28 Thread Charles Wu
Last I understood, Part-15 was also a Non-Profit.

That's the sham

Although .org domain names are traditionally reserved for non-profit
institutions, there is nothing within ICANN policy preventing a for-profit
organization from registering a .org domain

A quick who-is of Part-15.org  WISPCON.info outputs the following:

Registrant: 
   Prime Directive Corp.   
   P.O. Box 157 
   North Aurora, IL 60542  
   US  
 
   Domain Name: PART-15.ORG  
  
   Administrative Contact :
   Prime Directive Corp   
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
   PO BOX 157 
   NORTH AURORA, IL 60542-0157  
   US  
   Phone: 630-906-0323  
   Fax: 630-906-0323  
 
Registrant: 
   Prime Directive Corp.   
   P.O. Box 157 
   North Aurora, IL 60542  
   US  
 
   Domain Name: WISPCON.INFO  
  
   Administrative Contact :
   Prime Directive Corp   
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
   PO BOX 157 
   NORTH AURORA, IL 60542-0157  
   US  
   Phone: 630-906-0323  
   Fax: 630-906-0323  

A lookup in the State of Illinois Corporation/LLC Database shows Prime
Directive, Inc as a FOR-PROFIT CORPORATION with Michael Anderson (Bullit) as
the President

http://cdsprod.ilsos.net/CorpSearchWeb/CorporationSearchServlet?fileNumber=5
9278304sysId=CDnameType=MST

While there's nothing wrong with running a for-profit industry association /
show (ISPCON, Shorecliff's Broadband Wireless World, Jupiter Media, etc), I
have an ethical issue when the for-profit group tries to generate goodwill
by marketing itself as a not-for-profit trade group when it's express
purpose is to maximize shareholder (in this case Michael Anderson) profits.

So, in comparing Part-15 vs. WISPA, it is worth noting that Part-15 is an
opportunistic for-profit entity focused on capitalizing market share in the
WISP industry (can you fault them? I mean, all of us are for-profits), and
WISPA is a LEGITIMATE NOT-FOR-PROFIT focused on representing the WISP
industry as a whole

With that in mind, you should be able to make an intelligent  informed
decision on who/where to give your money to

-Charles

---
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Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com 

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RE: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon

2005-09-28 Thread Charles Wu
snip
It should be noted that of all organizations mentioned above that WISPA 
is the only one that is federally recognized under CFR # 501c6 as a 
non-profit trade association.. Every other entity listed above is 
working to make a profit in their efforts and as such would likely be 
looking to advance  individual  interests over those of the industry as 
a whole. WISPA is designed to promote the efforts of WISP operators over 
and above all other interests. As a matter of law we cannot act to allow 
one WISP to be given more consideration from the efforts of this 
organization than another. This means it is truly level ground for our 
efforts going forward.
/snip

As one of the abovementioned for-profit entities, it is worth noting that
there is nothing wrong w/ trying to make an honest buck ducking
That said, all the other industires (cellular, cable, telco) have their own
represented NOT-FOR-PROFIT association that pushes their interests in DC, if
you (as a WISP), don't bother to spend the time/money/energy supporting
WISPA, then don't complain if legislation leaves you in the dust

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 4:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon


There is not a show discount relationship between WISPA and WISPCON. 
WISPCON is not directly tied to WISPA in any way. I believe WISPCON has 
a discount program through Part-15 just as WISPA has with ISPCON and 
WiNOG at times in the past. There have been no discussions of offering 
these discounts for WISPCON but would consider it if an opportunity were 
made available to us. I believe you will continue to see options for the 
discounts for WISPA members through WiNOG and ISPCON shows in the future 
as long as the ownership of these organizations see this as a valuable 
opportunity to help WISPA and themselves.



This does not mean I think that a for-profit company cannot help the 
efforts of the industry. This is far from true. I am simply explaining 
the different philosophies and how one could benefit more than another 
in certain situations. We are firm believers that WISPA is the 
organization that most fairly represents the interests of WISPs 
regarding policy issues. Other interests will develop where our industry 
can share our collective efforts as we did in the Katrina/Rita effort. 
WISPA will always look for different organizations that can help us 
forward our efforts of better policy to help us in our industry. 
Sometimes the other entities will be for-profit and sometimes not.

WISPA has decided at this time to not create another show to the mix of 
what many would say is an over-crowded industry segment. We do allow 
the promotion and advertisement of shows when a show owner works with us 
to provide an opportunity. This could include a scenario where WISPA can 
make money and further our efforts through exposure at show events by 
speaking and or exhibiting..

This may be more information than you were looking for but I wanted to 
make sure everyone understood the dynamics and position of WISPA in 
relation to shows around the industry. I hope that helped. Scriv


Jory Privett wrote:

WISPA


- Original Message -
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISPCon


As a paid member of p15 or wispa?

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message -
From: Jory Privett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:18 AM
Subject: [WISPA] WISPCon


  

As a WISP paid member  does anyone know where I can get discount 
passes to WispCon in Dallas October 9-11?


Jory Privett
WCCS


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Re: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon

2005-09-28 Thread Tom DeReggi
I'm not sure what part you thought made no sense.  Maybe I was not possitive 
enough about WISPA? Maybe, Im not accurate on the current state of Part-15's 
legal status? It doesn't matter.


All I really meant is WISPA is a GROUP for WISPS operated by WISPs. I'm a 
strong supporter and member of WISPA.
Part-15 is a group for WISPs by an individual.  I'm not sure what doesn't 
make sense about that, thats the way I see it.

Nothing wrong with either model, just different.

But OK, I'll drop the subject.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon



?  Tom that made no sense.

WISPA has non profit LOBBYING status with the IRS.  Last anyone I knew 
we're the only one with that status.  I believe we're also the only one 
who's bylaws require a majority of the board members to be wisps.


Now can we PLEASE drop the p15 talk?  We're us, they are them.  If you 
like or dislike one or the other fine.  There are more important things to 
talk about on this list though.


thanks,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon


I don't know that the for-profit claims are accurate.  WISPCON is a 
For-Profit.  Last I understood, Part-15 was also a Non-Profit.  The 
difference is that Part-15 is an organization where control is maintained 
by an individual, the owner, Michael Anderson (and spouse?).  Appropriate, 
since he is the founder, primary contributor, and investor.  That does not 
make it a for-Profit organization.  WISPA on the other hand is supposed 
to be at least in spirit, an organization for WISPs controlled by WISPs. 
How realistic that is, is not yet proven, but the ideal is there.


So lets not forget this is not about Profit or Not, its about control 
and/or guaranteeing direction and representation.


Wether or not, Part-15 funnels business to WISPCON and vice versa, or 
that one intity owns both, is irrelevent.  Just as it is irrlevent that 
WISPA may funnel business or offer support to WISPNOG or ISPCON, or vice 
versa.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:09 PM
Subject: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon


There is not a show discount relationship between WISPA and WISPCON. 
WISPCON is not directly tied to WISPA in any way. I believe WISPCON has 
a discount program through Part-15 just as WISPA has with ISPCON and 
WiNOG at times in the past. There have been no discussions of offering 
these discounts for WISPCON but would consider it if an opportunity were 
made available to us. I believe you will continue to see options for the 
discounts for WISPA members through WiNOG and ISPCON shows in the future 
as long as the ownership of these organizations see this as a valuable 
opportunity to help WISPA and themselves.


It should be noted that of all organizations mentioned above that WISPA 
is the only one that is federally recognized under CFR # 501c6 as a 
non-profit trade association.. Every other entity listed above is 
working to make a profit in their efforts and as such would likely be 
looking to advance  individual  interests over those of the industry as 
a whole. WISPA is designed to promote the efforts of WISP operators over 
and above all other interests. As a matter of law we cannot act to allow 
one WISP to be given more consideration from the efforts of this 
organization than another. This means it is truly level ground for our 
efforts going forward.


This does not mean I think that a for-profit company cannot help the 
efforts of the industry. This is far from true. I am simply explaining 
the different philosophies and how one could benefit more than another 
in certain situations. We are firm believers that WISPA is the 
organization that most fairly represents the interests of WISPs 
regarding policy issues. Other interests will develop where our industry 
can share our collective efforts as we did in the Katrina/Rita effort. 
WISPA will always look for different organizations that can help us 
forward our efforts of better policy to help us in our industry. 
Sometimes the other entities will be for-profit and sometimes not.


WISPA has decided at this time to not create

Re: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon

2005-09-28 Thread Tom DeReggi

John,

do not believe we should be taking away any importance in the

governance aspect of WISPA being established as a 501c6.


I fully agree, it is excellent that WISPA had the dicipline to follow 
through with the process. It valididates the organization.
Its just that that arguement couldn't be used the first full year WISPA was 
in existence, so I don't like to hold that formality over Michael's head, 
like Part-15 is just a get rich quick sceam.  But you made your point, and I 
do not contest/challenge it.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon


Actually I did not speak out of turn. I stand by my original post in all 
details unless you have alternate information. I am not trying to start an 
argument here but I think I spoke 100% the truth in my last post. I 
welcome proof to the contrary but I did not use speculation in my post. I 
stand firm in my belief that WISPA is the only recognized non-profit 
organization of any 501c(x) designation in the WISP industry. I agree with 
your other observations about the importance of being run by WISPs  but I 
do not believe we should be taking away any importance in the governance 
aspect of WISPA being established as a 501c6. Being classified a 501c6 has 
more to do with fair governance of the organization than it does a tax 
break. Read the CFRs and check out the background of other organizations 
before you counter a post from me as being false please. I was speaking 
what I believe to be 100% the truth and I did it with as much objectivity 
and neutral bias as I possibly could.

Scriv


Tom DeReggi wrote:

I don't know that the for-profit claims are accurate.  WISPCON is a 
For-Profit.  Last I understood, Part-15 was also a Non-Profit.  The 
difference is that Part-15 is an organization where control is maintained 
by an individual, the owner, Michael Anderson (and spouse?). 
Appropriate, since he is the founder, primary contributor, and investor. 
That does not make it a for-Profit organization.  WISPA on the other 
hand is supposed to be at least in spirit, an organization for WISPs 
controlled by WISPs. How realistic that is, is not yet proven, but the 
ideal is there.


So lets not forget this is not about Profit or Not, its about control 
and/or guaranteeing direction and representation.


Wether or not, Part-15 funnels business to WISPCON and vice versa, or 
that one intity owns both, is irrelevent.  Just as it is irrlevent that 
WISPA may funnel business or offer support to WISPNOG or ISPCON, or vice 
versa.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:09 PM
Subject: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon


There is not a show discount relationship between WISPA and WISPCON. 
WISPCON is not directly tied to WISPA in any way. I believe WISPCON has 
a discount program through Part-15 just as WISPA has with ISPCON and 
WiNOG at times in the past. There have been no discussions of offering 
these discounts for WISPCON but would consider it if an opportunity were 
made available to us. I believe you will continue to see options for the 
discounts for WISPA members through WiNOG and ISPCON shows in the future 
as long as the ownership of these organizations see this as a valuable 
opportunity to help WISPA and themselves.


It should be noted that of all organizations mentioned above that WISPA 
is the only one that is federally recognized under CFR # 501c6 as a 
non-profit trade association.. Every other entity listed above is 
working to make a profit in their efforts and as such would likely be 
looking to advance  individual  interests over those of the industry as 
a whole. WISPA is designed to promote the efforts of WISP operators over 
and above all other interests. As a matter of law we cannot act to allow 
one WISP to be given more consideration from the efforts of this 
organization than another. This means it is truly level ground for our 
efforts going forward.


This does not mean I think that a for-profit company cannot help the 
efforts of the industry. This is far from true. I am simply explaining 
the different philosophies and how one could benefit more than another 
in certain situations. We are firm believers that WISPA is the 
organization that most fairly represents the interests of WISPs 
regarding policy issues. Other interests will develop where our industry 
can share our collective efforts as we did in the Katrina/Rita effort. 
WISPA will always look for different organizations that can help us 
forward our efforts of better policy to help us in our industry. 
Sometimes the other entities

Re: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon

2005-09-28 Thread George

Charles Wu wrote:
 if

you (as a WISP), don't bother to spend the time/money/energy supporting
WISPA, then don't complain if legislation leaves you in the dust

-Charles


Well said, do you think you could post this a few times on the various 
lists?


George
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Re: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon

2005-09-28 Thread Bob Moldashel

Charles Wu wrote:


snip
All I really meant is WISPA is a GROUP for WISPS operated by WISPs. I'm a 
strong supporter and member of WISPA.
Part-15 is a group for WISPs by an individual.  I'm not sure what doesn't 
make sense about that, thats the way I see it.

Nothing wrong with either model, just different.
/snip

Democracy vs. Dictatorship?
 



Nice correlation  :-)




Remember, absolute power corrupts...

Absolutely

-Charles


---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com 



 




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Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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