Re: [WISPA] Yagi vs. Grid?

2009-12-11 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless/antenna/how_to_pick_the_right_antenna.htm

Take a look at the antenna patterns in there.  A yagi is actually a very 
nice antenna.  Much better than a grid as far as MOST of the antenna pattern 
goes.

I like panels better because they tend to be even better yet.

You can't get too big with a yagi.  For lots of gain you need a grid or 
dish.

When Mike says grids leak he's talking about the RF not water (though that 
can happen too).

laters,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Yagi vs. Grid?


 It's harder to get as much gain out of a Yagi as you can out of a
 parabolic antenna.

 Both a grid and Yagi can suffer from ice loading.  A Yagi can be
 encased in a radome to eliminate that hazard.

 Most grids I've seen leak horribly.  That is, they tend to spew RF
 out the back because of the grid spacing.  They still have the
 forward gain, but spew to the rear.

 When world hams were preparing for the launch of P3D, a lot of
 experiments were going on in 2.4G because one of the transponders
 used that band.  The front to back ratio issues were solved by
 covering the grid with a finer mesh.

 A Yagi, compared to the grid has a better front to back ratio, but
 has more pronounced side lobes and other minor lobes.

 I know you were asking about comparisons between a Yagi and a
 Grid.  2.4G, it depends on what you are doing.  5.8G, a solid dish
 with a radome wins every time; font to back ratio, side lobes, and
 the radome seals from ice, snow, hornets and decreases the wind load
 because of the Bernoulli effect.

 mg


 At 09:18 AM 12/11/2009, you wrote:
Any benefit of generally using a yagi over a wire grid or vice versa for a
CPE install?



Robert West

Just Micro Digital Services Inc.

740-335-7020






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Re: [WISPA] Yagi vs. Grid?

2009-12-11 Thread Steve Barnes
Marlon do you have a list or single access to all these little articles you 
have written.  Or do you just hand them out when you find it helpful.

Steve Barnes
Manager
PCS-WIN
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service

Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of 
trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, vision cleared, ambition 
inspired, and success achieved.
- Helen Keller


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:46 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Yagi vs. Grid?

http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless/antenna/how_to_pick_the_right_antenna.htm

Take a look at the antenna patterns in there.  A yagi is actually a very 
nice antenna.  Much better than a grid as far as MOST of the antenna pattern 
goes.

I like panels better because they tend to be even better yet.

You can't get too big with a yagi.  For lots of gain you need a grid or 
dish.

When Mike says grids leak he's talking about the RF not water (though that 
can happen too).

laters,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Yagi vs. Grid?


 It's harder to get as much gain out of a Yagi as you can out of a
 parabolic antenna.

 Both a grid and Yagi can suffer from ice loading.  A Yagi can be
 encased in a radome to eliminate that hazard.

 Most grids I've seen leak horribly.  That is, they tend to spew RF
 out the back because of the grid spacing.  They still have the
 forward gain, but spew to the rear.

 When world hams were preparing for the launch of P3D, a lot of
 experiments were going on in 2.4G because one of the transponders
 used that band.  The front to back ratio issues were solved by
 covering the grid with a finer mesh.

 A Yagi, compared to the grid has a better front to back ratio, but
 has more pronounced side lobes and other minor lobes.

 I know you were asking about comparisons between a Yagi and a
 Grid.  2.4G, it depends on what you are doing.  5.8G, a solid dish
 with a radome wins every time; font to back ratio, side lobes, and
 the radome seals from ice, snow, hornets and decreases the wind load
 because of the Bernoulli effect.

 mg


 At 09:18 AM 12/11/2009, you wrote:
Any benefit of generally using a yagi over a wire grid or vice versa for a
CPE install?



Robert West

Just Micro Digital Services Inc.

740-335-7020






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Re: [WISPA] Yagi vs. Grid?

2009-12-11 Thread Robert West
And I always suffer from gain envy.  Must be why I've always used grids.
Thanks for the info, I only have a few panels but they are 900mhz, thinking
about trying some Arc panels though for 5 and 2.4 to see how they do.  


Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:46 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Yagi vs. Grid?

http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless/antenna/how_to_pick_the_right_antenna.h
tm

Take a look at the antenna patterns in there.  A yagi is actually a very 
nice antenna.  Much better than a grid as far as MOST of the antenna pattern

goes.

I like panels better because they tend to be even better yet.

You can't get too big with a yagi.  For lots of gain you need a grid or 
dish.

When Mike says grids leak he's talking about the RF not water (though that 
can happen too).

laters,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Yagi vs. Grid?


 It's harder to get as much gain out of a Yagi as you can out of a
 parabolic antenna.

 Both a grid and Yagi can suffer from ice loading.  A Yagi can be
 encased in a radome to eliminate that hazard.

 Most grids I've seen leak horribly.  That is, they tend to spew RF
 out the back because of the grid spacing.  They still have the
 forward gain, but spew to the rear.

 When world hams were preparing for the launch of P3D, a lot of
 experiments were going on in 2.4G because one of the transponders
 used that band.  The front to back ratio issues were solved by
 covering the grid with a finer mesh.

 A Yagi, compared to the grid has a better front to back ratio, but
 has more pronounced side lobes and other minor lobes.

 I know you were asking about comparisons between a Yagi and a
 Grid.  2.4G, it depends on what you are doing.  5.8G, a solid dish
 with a radome wins every time; font to back ratio, side lobes, and
 the radome seals from ice, snow, hornets and decreases the wind load
 because of the Bernoulli effect.

 mg


 At 09:18 AM 12/11/2009, you wrote:
Any benefit of generally using a yagi over a wire grid or vice versa for a
CPE install?



Robert West

Just Micro Digital Services Inc.

740-335-7020





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Re: [WISPA] Yagi vs. Grid?

2009-12-11 Thread Ryan Spott
http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless/

Marlon, one of the reasons I got into this business I curse him every
day. :)


ryan

On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 8:03 AM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote:

 Marlon do you have a list or single access to all these little articles you
 have written.  Or do you just hand them out when you find it helpful.

 Steve Barnes
 Manager
 PCS-WIN
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service

 Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of
 trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, vision cleared, ambition
 inspired, and success achieved.
 - Helen Keller


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:46 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Yagi vs. Grid?


 http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless/antenna/how_to_pick_the_right_antenna.htm

 Take a look at the antenna patterns in there.  A yagi is actually a very
 nice antenna.  Much better than a grid as far as MOST of the antenna
 pattern
 goes.

 I like panels better because they tend to be even better yet.

 You can't get too big with a yagi.  For lots of gain you need a grid or
 dish.

 When Mike says grids leak he's talking about the RF not water (though that
 can happen too).

 laters,
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 7:31 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Yagi vs. Grid?


  It's harder to get as much gain out of a Yagi as you can out of a
  parabolic antenna.
 
  Both a grid and Yagi can suffer from ice loading.  A Yagi can be
  encased in a radome to eliminate that hazard.
 
  Most grids I've seen leak horribly.  That is, they tend to spew RF
  out the back because of the grid spacing.  They still have the
  forward gain, but spew to the rear.
 
  When world hams were preparing for the launch of P3D, a lot of
  experiments were going on in 2.4G because one of the transponders
  used that band.  The front to back ratio issues were solved by
  covering the grid with a finer mesh.
 
  A Yagi, compared to the grid has a better front to back ratio, but
  has more pronounced side lobes and other minor lobes.
 
  I know you were asking about comparisons between a Yagi and a
  Grid.  2.4G, it depends on what you are doing.  5.8G, a solid dish
  with a radome wins every time; font to back ratio, side lobes, and
  the radome seals from ice, snow, hornets and decreases the wind load
  because of the Bernoulli effect.
 
  mg
 
 
  At 09:18 AM 12/11/2009, you wrote:
 Any benefit of generally using a yagi over a wire grid or vice versa for
 a
 CPE install?
 
 
 
 Robert West
 
 Just Micro Digital Services Inc.
 
 740-335-7020
 
 
 
 
 

 
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 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] Yagi vs. Grid?

2009-12-11 Thread Scott Reed
I have been using Arc 19db panels instead of grids recently.  I will be 
moving that way more.
Only disadvantage I see is with the grids we mount the radio at the 
bottom of the TV tower for easy maintenance.  With the panels we are 
using the integrated enclosure, which is really nice, but the radio ends 
up 30+ in the air making service a little more difficult.

Robert West wrote:
 And I always suffer from gain envy.  Must be why I've always used grids.
 Thanks for the info, I only have a few panels but they are 900mhz, thinking
 about trying some Arc panels though for 5 and 2.4 to see how they do.  


 Bob-


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:46 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Yagi vs. Grid?

 http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless/antenna/how_to_pick_the_right_antenna.h
 tm

 Take a look at the antenna patterns in there.  A yagi is actually a very 
 nice antenna.  Much better than a grid as far as MOST of the antenna pattern

 goes.

 I like panels better because they tend to be even better yet.

 You can't get too big with a yagi.  For lots of gain you need a grid or 
 dish.

 When Mike says grids leak he's talking about the RF not water (though that 
 can happen too).

 laters,
 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 7:31 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Yagi vs. Grid?


   
 It's harder to get as much gain out of a Yagi as you can out of a
 parabolic antenna.

 Both a grid and Yagi can suffer from ice loading.  A Yagi can be
 encased in a radome to eliminate that hazard.

 Most grids I've seen leak horribly.  That is, they tend to spew RF
 out the back because of the grid spacing.  They still have the
 forward gain, but spew to the rear.

 When world hams were preparing for the launch of P3D, a lot of
 experiments were going on in 2.4G because one of the transponders
 used that band.  The front to back ratio issues were solved by
 covering the grid with a finer mesh.

 A Yagi, compared to the grid has a better front to back ratio, but
 has more pronounced side lobes and other minor lobes.

 I know you were asking about comparisons between a Yagi and a
 Grid.  2.4G, it depends on what you are doing.  5.8G, a solid dish
 with a radome wins every time; font to back ratio, side lobes, and
 the radome seals from ice, snow, hornets and decreases the wind load
 because of the Bernoulli effect.

 mg


 At 09:18 AM 12/11/2009, you wrote:
 
 Any benefit of generally using a yagi over a wire grid or vice versa for a
 CPE install?



 Robert West

 Just Micro Digital Services Inc.

 740-335-7020





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Re: [WISPA] Yagi vs. Grid?

2009-12-11 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
http://odessaoffice.com/wireless/

Look under articles.  Most of them are there.

thanks,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Yagi vs. Grid?


 Marlon do you have a list or single access to all these little articles 
 you have written.  Or do you just hand them out when you find it helpful.

 Steve Barnes
 Manager
 PCS-WIN
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service

 Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience 
 of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, vision cleared, 
 ambition inspired, and success achieved.
 - Helen Keller


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:46 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Yagi vs. Grid?

 http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless/antenna/how_to_pick_the_right_antenna.htm

 Take a look at the antenna patterns in there.  A yagi is actually a very
 nice antenna.  Much better than a grid as far as MOST of the antenna 
 pattern
 goes.

 I like panels better because they tend to be even better yet.

 You can't get too big with a yagi.  For lots of gain you need a grid or
 dish.

 When Mike says grids leak he's talking about the RF not water (though that
 can happen too).

 laters,
 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 7:31 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Yagi vs. Grid?


 It's harder to get as much gain out of a Yagi as you can out of a
 parabolic antenna.

 Both a grid and Yagi can suffer from ice loading.  A Yagi can be
 encased in a radome to eliminate that hazard.

 Most grids I've seen leak horribly.  That is, they tend to spew RF
 out the back because of the grid spacing.  They still have the
 forward gain, but spew to the rear.

 When world hams were preparing for the launch of P3D, a lot of
 experiments were going on in 2.4G because one of the transponders
 used that band.  The front to back ratio issues were solved by
 covering the grid with a finer mesh.

 A Yagi, compared to the grid has a better front to back ratio, but
 has more pronounced side lobes and other minor lobes.

 I know you were asking about comparisons between a Yagi and a
 Grid.  2.4G, it depends on what you are doing.  5.8G, a solid dish
 with a radome wins every time; font to back ratio, side lobes, and
 the radome seals from ice, snow, hornets and decreases the wind load
 because of the Bernoulli effect.

 mg


 At 09:18 AM 12/11/2009, you wrote:
Any benefit of generally using a yagi over a wire grid or vice versa for 
a
CPE install?



Robert West

Just Micro Digital Services Inc.

740-335-7020






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