Re: [WISPA] Lightning AGAIN

2010-08-12 Thread Marco Coelho
We had all sorts of lightning issues at our primary tower 15 years
ago.  Here's what fixed it:

What we did was put a ground ring around the tower, and another ring
around the building connected to that ring.  150 ground rods
interconnected with #2 solid copper cad welded to the rods.  Each leg
of the tower is cadwelded with #2 sold and that is cadwelded to the
tower ring.
From that ring, we bring in #2 awg 'stingers', or connections into the
building that the equipment gets grounded to.  Rack, Routers,
everything.  Avoid ground loops.

I would also recommend lightning dissapators that discharge the ion
field before the strike ever happens.  A ground rod with it's own #2
from the top of the tower should also get connected to the ring.

Shielded ethernet cables everywhere since the emf from the lightning
couples into the high impedance line and fries ports.

APC UPS's on all AC, TrippLite IsoBar surge protectors or TrippLite
PDUs on all AC connections.

All radio cables coming from outside are shielded and grounded.  All
those go to grounded surge protectors.   All RF cables have grounded
polyphaser surge protectors (these rock).

Knock on wood, not an issue since then (10+ years).

Marco Coelho
Argon Technologies Inc.



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Re: [WISPA] Lightning AGAIN

2010-08-11 Thread Greg Ihnen
Are the APC's grounded and do they have the industrial strength surge 
protection necessary to divert a large inrush without too much voltage rise?

Greg

On Aug 6, 2010, at 5:19 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote:

 I have two giant apc's and don't see a problem there.
 
 Sent from my iPhone



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Re: [WISPA] Lightning AGAIN

2010-08-11 Thread Greg Ihnen
IS PFSense or Vyatta better than MT?

Greg

On Aug 6, 2010, at 4:18 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote:

 For the router ... I can suggest a quick solution, 
 
 PFSENSE  - or Vyatta. 
 
 Best part - both are 100% FREE 
 
 Replacing a computer much of the time is much cheaper than a router... 
 AND - these do a much better job for sure. 
 




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Re: [WISPA] Lightning AGAIN

2010-08-11 Thread Scott Lambert
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 05:42:43PM -0430, Greg Ihnen wrote:
 IS PFSense or Vyatta better than MT?

In the sense that an orange is better than a bannana, yes or no.

If you are familiar with MT, run that on the PC router.

I like my pfSense boxes but have found places where they just don't
fit and a MikroTik or ImageStream work better.  No experience with
Vyatta.

 On Aug 6, 2010, at 4:18 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote:
  For the router ... I can suggest a quick solution, 
  
  PFSENSE  - or Vyatta. 
  
  Best part - both are 100% FREE 
  
  Replacing a computer much of the time is much cheaper than a router... 
  AND - these do a much better job for sure. 

-- 
Scott LambertKC5MLE   Unix SysAdmin
lamb...@lambertfam.org




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Re: [WISPA] Lightning AGAIN

2010-08-11 Thread Greg Ihnen
I've not tried Vyatta either, but I've done PFSense and got tired of waiting 
for features that weren't quite working in beta.

RouterOS seems much more powerful and configurable to me. Though maybe you can 
do as much with PFSense at the CLI.

Greg

On Aug 11, 2010, at 7:50 PM, Scott Lambert wrote:

 On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 05:42:43PM -0430, Greg Ihnen wrote:
 IS PFSense or Vyatta better than MT?
 
 In the sense that an orange is better than a bannana, yes or no.
 
 If you are familiar with MT, run that on the PC router.
 
 I like my pfSense boxes but have found places where they just don't
 fit and a MikroTik or ImageStream work better.  No experience with
 Vyatta.



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Re: [WISPA] Lightning AGAIN

2010-08-06 Thread Glenn Kelley
For the router ... I can suggest a quick solution, 

PFSENSE  - or Vyatta. 

Best part - both are 100% FREE 

Replacing a computer much of the time is much cheaper than a router... 
AND - these do a much better job for sure. 



On Aug 6, 2010, at 4:38 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote:

 For the second week in a row lightning has got me. This time it was my
 main tower taking out my core cisco router, switch, AP. My luck is
 great. Maybe it's time to look at something besides cisco.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 
 
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_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.




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Re: [WISPA] Lightning AGAIN

2010-08-06 Thread Fred Goldstein
At 8/6/2010 04:38 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote:
For the second week in a row lightning has got me. This time it was my
main tower taking out my core cisco router, switch, AP. My luck is
great. Maybe it's time to look at something besides cisco.

Hmmm, I'm sensing a product opportunity here.  Cisco routers are 
expensive.  So rather than let anything conductive touch them (other 
than the power feed, which presumably has its own protectors), use a 
jumper of all-dielectric fiber to isolate them from anything that 
goes near the outside.  Sort of an air gap, but made of glass...


  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein at ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701 




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Re: [WISPA] Lightning AGAIN

2010-08-06 Thread Jeremie Chism
Good idea. I had Ethernet surge protectors but it must have jumped them.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 6, 2010, at 4:13 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote:

 At 8/6/2010 04:38 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote:
 For the second week in a row lightning has got me. This time it was my
 main tower taking out my core cisco router, switch, AP. My luck is
 great. Maybe it's time to look at something besides cisco.

 Hmmm, I'm sensing a product opportunity here.  Cisco routers are
 expensive.  So rather than let anything conductive touch them (other
 than the power feed, which presumably has its own protectors), use a
 jumper of all-dielectric fiber to isolate them from anything that
 goes near the outside.  Sort of an air gap, but made of glass...


  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein at ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701



 
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Re: [WISPA] Lightning AGAIN

2010-08-06 Thread lakeland
Could have come in thru the AC power.  I have seen selective failures following 
lightning hits on the service feeds. Just FYI
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com
Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 16:16:38 
To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lightning AGAIN

Good idea. I had Ethernet surge protectors but it must have jumped them.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 6, 2010, at 4:13 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote:

 At 8/6/2010 04:38 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote:
 For the second week in a row lightning has got me. This time it was my
 main tower taking out my core cisco router, switch, AP. My luck is
 great. Maybe it's time to look at something besides cisco.

 Hmmm, I'm sensing a product opportunity here.  Cisco routers are
 expensive.  So rather than let anything conductive touch them (other
 than the power feed, which presumably has its own protectors), use a
 jumper of all-dielectric fiber to isolate them from anything that
 goes near the outside.  Sort of an air gap, but made of glass...


  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein at ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701



 
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Re: [WISPA] Lightning AGAIN

2010-08-06 Thread Dennis Burgess
RouterBoards are cheap, a 9 port 10/100 box that can do about 50 meg
runs 212 bucks!  289 if you want rack mount.  www.wlan1.com is a good
place to get units.

---
Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 3:38 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Lightning AGAIN

For the second week in a row lightning has got me. This time it was my
main tower taking out my core cisco router, switch, AP. My luck is
great. Maybe it's time to look at something besides cisco.

Sent from my iPhone




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Re: [WISPA] Lightning AGAIN

2010-08-06 Thread Jeremie Chism
I have two giant apc's and don't see a problem there.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 6, 2010, at 4:37 PM, lakel...@gbcx.net wrote:

 Could have come in thru the AC power.  I have seen selective failures 
 following lightning hits on the service feeds. Just FYI
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

 -Original Message-
 From: Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com
 Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
 Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 16:16:38
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lightning AGAIN

 Good idea. I had Ethernet surge protectors but it must have jumped them.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Aug 6, 2010, at 4:13 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote:

 At 8/6/2010 04:38 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote:
 For the second week in a row lightning has got me. This time it was my
 main tower taking out my core cisco router, switch, AP. My luck is
 great. Maybe it's time to look at something besides cisco.

 Hmmm, I'm sensing a product opportunity here.  Cisco routers are
 expensive.  So rather than let anything conductive touch them (other
 than the power feed, which presumably has its own protectors), use a
 jumper of all-dielectric fiber to isolate them from anything that
 goes near the outside.  Sort of an air gap, but made of glass...


 --
 Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein at ionary.com
 ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
 +1 617 795 2701



 
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Re: [WISPA] Lightning arrestors

2009-11-29 Thread os10rules
You have to check the specs. The possible problems are high VSWR. Rather than 
transiting through the device the radio waves bounce back from the device. This 
could damage your transmitter, will reduce your transmitted power, and increase 
receive loss (reduced receive signal strength). It's also possible for the 
device to maintain a low VSWR (still present a 50 ohm impedance at 5.8GHz) but 
be very lossy (reduced transmit power, reduced receive signal strength).

I don't believe the lightning protection benefits are any different between 
units for different bands. The difference is how it passes the RF signals 
you're trying to pass through it (loss and VSWR).

Greg
On Nov 28, 2009, at 11:00 PM, Michael Baird wrote:

 What happens if you use a 2.4 lightning arrestor on a 5.8 radio? Will it 
 cause degraded signal or incorrect lightning protection.
 
 Regards
 Michael Baird
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Lightning arrestors

2009-11-28 Thread Nathan Stooke
Hello,

Yes if it is not rated for up to 5.8ghz.  You should be able to find
specs on the lightning arrestor.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Baird
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 10:01 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Lightning arrestors

What happens if you use a 2.4 lightning arrestor on a 5.8 radio? Will it 
cause degraded signal or incorrect lightning protection.

Regards
Michael Baird




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Re: [WISPA] Lightning arrestors

2009-11-28 Thread Robert West
I second that.  Most ARE rated for up to 5.8 but don't seem to list it
unless you ask.  Last time I purchased them I found the ones listed for 5.8
only were much more $$ than the 2.4.  Turned out the 2.4's I was buying were
indeed rated to 5.8, I just had to ask to find out.  Makes sense, why make 2
when you can do the same with just one product.



Bob-



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Nathan Stooke
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 11:19 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lightning arrestors

Hello,

Yes if it is not rated for up to 5.8ghz.  You should be able to find
specs on the lightning arrestor.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Baird
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 10:01 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Lightning arrestors

What happens if you use a 2.4 lightning arrestor on a 5.8 radio? Will it 
cause degraded signal or incorrect lightning protection.

Regards
Michael Baird




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Re: [WISPA] Lightning arrestors

2009-11-28 Thread Michael Baird
They are rflinx quarterwave rated from 2.1-2.7, they were used instead 
of polyphasers on a couple of new backhauls we deployed. I'm seeing 
unusual noise floors on both of them which I know are incorrect due to 
the readings from previous 5.8 gear that was replaced. I'm just 
wondering if this would be a symptom, what does the frequency range 
actually mean on those I suspect it would make my noise floors go out of 
whack like that. They aren't in use and I will replace them before going 
into production, I'm just curious.

Regards
Michael Baird
 I second that.  Most ARE rated for up to 5.8 but don't seem to list it
 unless you ask.  Last time I purchased them I found the ones listed for 5.8
 only were much more $$ than the 2.4.  Turned out the 2.4's I was buying were
 indeed rated to 5.8, I just had to ask to find out.  Makes sense, why make 2
 when you can do the same with just one product.



 Bob-



 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Nathan Stooke
 Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 11:19 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lightning arrestors

 Hello,

   Yes if it is not rated for up to 5.8ghz.  You should be able to find
 specs on the lightning arrestor.

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Michael Baird
 Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 10:01 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] Lightning arrestors

 What happens if you use a 2.4 lightning arrestor on a 5.8 radio? Will it 
 cause degraded signal or incorrect lightning protection.

 Regards
 Michael Baird


 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Lightning arrestors

2009-11-28 Thread Chuck Hogg
We carry quite a few different ones.  Most popular are the PolyPhasers,
go thru 7GHz.

http://www.quicklinkwireless.com/items.asp?Cc=LIGHTNINGPROTiTpStatus=0;
Tp=Bc=


Regards,
Chuck Hogg
Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com
http://www.shelbybb.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 12:08 AM
To: nsto...@wisperisp.com; 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lightning arrestors

I second that.  Most ARE rated for up to 5.8 but don't seem to list it
unless you ask.  Last time I purchased them I found the ones listed for
5.8
only were much more $$ than the 2.4.  Turned out the 2.4's I was buying
were
indeed rated to 5.8, I just had to ask to find out.  Makes sense, why
make 2
when you can do the same with just one product.



Bob-



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Nathan Stooke
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 11:19 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lightning arrestors

Hello,

Yes if it is not rated for up to 5.8ghz.  You should be able to
find
specs on the lightning arrestor.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Baird
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 10:01 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Lightning arrestors

What happens if you use a 2.4 lightning arrestor on a 5.8 radio? Will it

cause degraded signal or incorrect lightning protection.

Regards
Michael Baird





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Re: [WISPA] Lightning 1, Bullet 0

2009-07-24 Thread Adam Kennedy
That'll buff out.


Adam Kennedy
Senior Network Administrator
Cyberlink Technologies, Inc.
Phone: (888) 293-3693
Fax: (574) 855-5761


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 5:15 PM
To: WISPA General List; Motorola Canopy User Group
Subject: [WISPA] Lightning 1, Bullet 0

For your vicarious enjoyment of nature vs. Ubiquiti products

http://www.thelar.com/gallery2/v/Wireless/Miscellaneous/

Won't be doing an RMA on this unit.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com





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Re: [WISPA] Lightning 1, Bullet 0

2009-07-23 Thread Robert West
A little Hot glue should be able to fix that right up.


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 5:15 PM
To: WISPA General List; Motorola Canopy User Group
Subject: [WISPA] Lightning 1, Bullet 0

For your vicarious enjoyment of nature vs. Ubiquiti products

http://www.thelar.com/gallery2/v/Wireless/Miscellaneous/

Won't be doing an RMA on this unit.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com





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Re: [WISPA] Lightning 1, Bullet 0

2009-07-23 Thread Joe Miller

It didn't stand a chance, lol.



- Original Message 
From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; Motorola Canopy User Group 
motor...@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 4:17:34 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lightning 1, Bullet 0

A little Hot glue should be able to fix that right up.


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 5:15 PM
To: WISPA General List; Motorola Canopy User Group
Subject: [WISPA] Lightning 1, Bullet 0

For your vicarious enjoyment of nature vs. Ubiquiti products

http://www.thelar.com/gallery2/v/Wireless/Miscellaneous/

Won't be doing an RMA on this unit.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com





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Re: [WISPA] Lightning 1, Bullet 0

2009-07-23 Thread Israel Lopez-LISTS
No lightning protection on the little guy?  I imagine not since they 
were cheap.

-IL

Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:
 For your vicarious enjoyment of nature vs. Ubiquiti products

 http://www.thelar.com/gallery2/v/Wireless/Miscellaneous/

 Won't be doing an RMA on this unit.

 Matt Larsen
 vistabeam.com



 
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Re: [WISPA] Lightning 1, Bullet 0

2009-07-23 Thread Tom Sharples
Now we finally know why they haven't released the new SDK!

Tom S.

- Original Message - 
From: Matt Larsen - Lists li...@manageisp.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; Motorola Canopy User Group 
motor...@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 2:14 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Lightning 1, Bullet 0


 For your vicarious enjoyment of nature vs. Ubiquiti products

 http://www.thelar.com/gallery2/v/Wireless/Miscellaneous/

 Won't be doing an RMA on this unit.

 Matt Larsen
 vistabeam.com



 
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Re: [WISPA] Lightning protection used on installs

2009-04-12 Thread Tom DeReggi
The newest version of Citel's outdoor protector is pretty awesome also.
Its a pretty close competition on whether the Canopy or Citel is better.
The Citel can be had at about the same cost, depedning on how buying.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.com
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 8:17 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Lightning protection used on installs



 Its about that time :)

 What have you guys found most cost effective (and it needs to work) for
 lightning protection where the cable enters an exterior wall?

 How much and where do you get them?  So far the motorola units seem to be
 the best I've seen for what you get and how they work...

 Also, if you don't mind describing the rest of the pieces you like to use
 I'm all ears...  (which type of ground wire / guage / how to attach to 
 wall
 / color etc)

 Scott Carullo
 Brevard Wireless
 321-205-1100 x102



 
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Re: [WISPA] Lightning protection

2008-12-29 Thread John McDowell
We are mostly Canopy and Redline AN80 around here. We have had great luck
with the transtector ALPU-POE for Canopy and have had great luck with the
units that are recommended by redline for AN80. We're actually trying on a
couple of sites a POE with Surge from Hyperlinktech.

On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Josh Luthman
j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote:

 I'd like to inquiry this mailing list on what other WISPs use as far as
 lightning protection.  We've had a bad spring every other year with
 something going bad.  This recent past spring two towers were hit causing
 massive outages and a really bad day.

 We have a stock of these things which is why this was brought up:

 http://shop.wirelessguys.com/s.nl;jsessionid=0a0108421f43ab6dee3813784f588a6a9ab61e2443c4.e3eTaxePaNqNe34Pa38Ta38NaNj0?it=Aid=2681

 Usually for our Trangos and MTs we use the PacWireless esp-100-poe
 http://www.pacwireless.com/products/ESP-100-POE_datasheet.pdf

 The Transtector units have been on the shelf for a while, they came from an
 old storage unit from another company.  With the price tag I wondered if
 they didn't do anything extra.  I opened them up and it looks like nothing
 more then resistors and a patch pannel on a piece of PCB.

 The units that we lost last spring were RB532s with the esp-100-poe and two
 ODUs for Redline AN50s (not the IDU, though!)  Hopefully someone can
 suggest
 a better way to defend us from those acts of god =)

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
 --- Henry Spencer



 
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-- 
John M. McDowell
Boonlink Communications
307 Grand Ave NW
Fort Payne, AL 35967
256.844.9932
j...@boonlink.com
www.boonlink.com






This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged.
Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee),
you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or any
information contained in the message. If you have received the message in
error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail j...@boonlink.com, and
delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to spoofing,
spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your
computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the message or the
source, please contact the sender directly.



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Re: [WISPA] Lightning protection

2008-12-29 Thread Dustin Jurman
A combination of surge protection and proper grounding is the key.  We
utilize a multi-point ground tester and find a large portion of our sites
have poor grounds (less then 5 Ohms to earth) or some crack head stole the
buss bars and copper. (Very likely in FLA).  Testing has become part of our
semi-annual maintenance. We also utilize static dissipaters to reduce the
conditions for lightning to form around the site as well as surge
protectors.

As far as Transtectors, The large one for the canopy is very well designed
and works well.  We have replaced all of the ALPU-ORT (PTP Transtector
versions) with the new Motorola units.  They stand up better, are made for
hanging on towers and don't fill with water after baking in the sun for a
few years.

Dustin  

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of John McDowell
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lightning protection

We are mostly Canopy and Redline AN80 around here. We have had great luck
with the transtector ALPU-POE for Canopy and have had great luck with the
units that are recommended by redline for AN80. We're actually trying on a
couple of sites a POE with Surge from Hyperlinktech.

On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Josh Luthman
j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote:

 I'd like to inquiry this mailing list on what other WISPs use as far as
 lightning protection.  We've had a bad spring every other year with
 something going bad.  This recent past spring two towers were hit causing
 massive outages and a really bad day.

 We have a stock of these things which is why this was brought up:


http://shop.wirelessguys.com/s.nl;jsessionid=0a0108421f43ab6dee3813784f588a6
a9ab61e2443c4.e3eTaxePaNqNe34Pa38Ta38NaNj0?it=Aid=2681

 Usually for our Trangos and MTs we use the PacWireless esp-100-poe
 http://www.pacwireless.com/products/ESP-100-POE_datasheet.pdf

 The Transtector units have been on the shelf for a while, they came from
an
 old storage unit from another company.  With the price tag I wondered if
 they didn't do anything extra.  I opened them up and it looks like nothing
 more then resistors and a patch pannel on a piece of PCB.

 The units that we lost last spring were RB532s with the esp-100-poe and
two
 ODUs for Redline AN50s (not the IDU, though!)  Hopefully someone can
 suggest
 a better way to defend us from those acts of god =)

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
 --- Henry Spencer






 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/





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-- 
John M. McDowell
Boonlink Communications
307 Grand Ave NW
Fort Payne, AL 35967
256.844.9932
j...@boonlink.com
www.boonlink.com






This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged.
Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee),
you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or any
information contained in the message. If you have received the message in
error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail j...@boonlink.com, and
delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to spoofing,
spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your
computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the message or the
source, please contact the sender directly.




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Re: [WISPA] Lightning Surge Suppressers

2008-05-20 Thread Jack Unger
Mark,

I doubt the ohmeter will tell you anything. The gas tube is supposed to 
measure open. It's job is to conduct only when lightning needs to be 
shorted to ground instead of going through your equipment.

Put the arrestor inline between an antenna and a radio. If the radio 
works as well after installation as it did before then the arrestor is 
probably OK, assuming the gas tube isn't bad. After a lightning storm, 
if your radio stills works as well as it did before the storm then you 
know the gas tube is probably good.

If you think the gas tube is probably bad then just replace it with a 
new one.

jack


Mark McElvy wrote:
 I have some Altelicon glass tube lightning surge arresters. I am trying
 to figure out how to test then to see if they are good. I have used an
 ohm meter to compare a new one with an old one I suspected to be bad but
 all reads the same. The replaceable glass tube measures open on bothe
 old and new.

  

 Mark McElvy
 AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.



  



 
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-- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
Vendor-Neutral Wireless Design-Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting
FCC License # PG-12-25133 Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger
Phone 818-227-4220  Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]






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Re: [WISPA] Lightning Surge Suppressers

2008-05-20 Thread Chuck McCown - 2
The way I test the surge suppressors I manufacture is to place a high 
voltage across the suppression device (such as your gas tube).  The voltage 
must be higher than the breakdown voltage of the device.  Frequently 120 VAC 
from the outlet will do.  I use a variac coupled to a step up transformer so 
I can go to 1000 volts if needs be.

You must put a current limiting resistor in series with the gas tube to keep 
from blowing a circuit breaker and damaging the gas tube.  If the gas tube 
is firing, it will have a voltage across it at whatever level the breakdown 
voltage is.  If it is not firing, the full applied voltage will be measured. 
If it is shorted, very low or no voltage will be seen.

- Original Message - 
From: Mark McElvy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 1:15 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Lightning Surge Suppressers


I have some Altelicon glass tube lightning surge arresters. I am trying
 to figure out how to test then to see if they are good. I have used an
 ohm meter to compare a new one with an old one I suspected to be bad but
 all reads the same. The replaceable glass tube measures open on bothe
 old and new.



 Mark McElvy
 AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.







 
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Re: [WISPA] Lightning Surge Suppressers

2008-05-20 Thread Mark McElvy
Well the reason for concern is about a month ago I lost a 3 sector tower
to lightning or at least during a lightning storm. Everything with an
Ethernet port lost the Ethernet port as well as the three radios. I
replaced all three aps but left the lightning suppressors in place. One
of the AP's seems to have poor receive signals. I am trying to determine
if it is the new foliage or a blown suppressor.

Mark McElvy
AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 2:34 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lightning Surge Suppressers

Mark,

I doubt the ohmeter will tell you anything. The gas tube is supposed to 
measure open. It's job is to conduct only when lightning needs to be 
shorted to ground instead of going through your equipment.

Put the arrestor inline between an antenna and a radio. If the radio 
works as well after installation as it did before then the arrestor is 
probably OK, assuming the gas tube isn't bad. After a lightning storm,

if your radio stills works as well as it did before the storm then you 
know the gas tube is probably good.

If you think the gas tube is probably bad then just replace it with a 
new one.

jack


Mark McElvy wrote:
 I have some Altelicon glass tube lightning surge arresters. I am
trying
 to figure out how to test then to see if they are good. I have used an
 ohm meter to compare a new one with an old one I suspected to be bad
but
 all reads the same. The replaceable glass tube measures open on bothe
 old and new.

  

 Mark McElvy
 AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.



  






 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/



  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



   

-- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
Vendor-Neutral Wireless Design-Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting
FCC License # PG-12-25133 Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger
Phone 818-227-4220  Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]







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Re: [WISPA] Lightning Surge Suppressers

2008-05-20 Thread Steve Barnes
Don't forget pigtails. I have had a simple Pigtail cause odd receive signals
at the AP end.  

Steve Barnes
Executive Manager
PCS-WIN
RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service
(765)584-2288

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark McElvy
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 4:07 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lightning Surge Suppressers

Well the reason for concern is about a month ago I lost a 3 sector tower
to lightning or at least during a lightning storm. Everything with an
Ethernet port lost the Ethernet port as well as the three radios. I
replaced all three aps but left the lightning suppressors in place. One
of the AP's seems to have poor receive signals. I am trying to determine
if it is the new foliage or a blown suppressor.

Mark McElvy
AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 2:34 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lightning Surge Suppressers

Mark,

I doubt the ohmeter will tell you anything. The gas tube is supposed to 
measure open. It's job is to conduct only when lightning needs to be 
shorted to ground instead of going through your equipment.

Put the arrestor inline between an antenna and a radio. If the radio 
works as well after installation as it did before then the arrestor is 
probably OK, assuming the gas tube isn't bad. After a lightning storm,

if your radio stills works as well as it did before the storm then you 
know the gas tube is probably good.

If you think the gas tube is probably bad then just replace it with a 
new one.

jack


Mark McElvy wrote:
 I have some Altelicon glass tube lightning surge arresters. I am
trying
 to figure out how to test then to see if they are good. I have used an
 ohm meter to compare a new one with an old one I suspected to be bad
but
 all reads the same. The replaceable glass tube measures open on bothe
 old and new.

  

 Mark McElvy
 AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.



  






 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/



  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

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-- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
Vendor-Neutral Wireless Design-Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting
FCC License # PG-12-25133 Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger
Phone 818-227-4220  Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]







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Re: [WISPA] Lightning Surge Suppressers

2008-05-20 Thread Scott Reed
In addition to water in a cable and even water in an antenna.

Steve Barnes wrote:
 Don't forget pigtails. I have had a simple Pigtail cause odd receive signals
 at the AP end.  

 Steve Barnes
 Executive Manager
 PCS-WIN
 RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service
 (765)584-2288

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Mark McElvy
 Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 4:07 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lightning Surge Suppressers

 Well the reason for concern is about a month ago I lost a 3 sector tower
 to lightning or at least during a lightning storm. Everything with an
 Ethernet port lost the Ethernet port as well as the three radios. I
 replaced all three aps but left the lightning suppressors in place. One
 of the AP's seems to have poor receive signals. I am trying to determine
 if it is the new foliage or a blown suppressor.

 Mark McElvy
 AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Jack Unger
 Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 2:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lightning Surge Suppressers

 Mark,

 I doubt the ohmeter will tell you anything. The gas tube is supposed to 
 measure open. It's job is to conduct only when lightning needs to be 
 shorted to ground instead of going through your equipment.

 Put the arrestor inline between an antenna and a radio. If the radio 
 works as well after installation as it did before then the arrestor is 
 probably OK, assuming the gas tube isn't bad. After a lightning storm,

 if your radio stills works as well as it did before the storm then you 
 know the gas tube is probably good.

 If you think the gas tube is probably bad then just replace it with a 
 new one.

 jack


 Mark McElvy wrote:
   
 I have some Altelicon glass tube lightning surge arresters. I am
 
 trying
   
 to figure out how to test then to see if they are good. I have used an
 ohm meter to compare a new one with an old one I suspected to be bad
 
 but
   
 all reads the same. The replaceable glass tube measures open on bothe
 old and new.

  

 Mark McElvy
 AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.



  




 
 
 
   
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Owner
NewWays Networking, LLC
Wireless Networking
Network Design, Installation and Administration
Mikrotik Advanced Certified
www.nwwnet.net
(765) 855-1060




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Re: [WISPA] Lightning Surge Suppressers

2008-05-20 Thread Bob Moldashel
At $10 each its probably a lot easier and safer to just replace the tube
when in doubt.  A whole new arrestor is only $25!


On 5/20/08 3:39 PM, Chuck McCown - 2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The way I test the surge suppressors I manufacture is to place a high
 voltage across the suppression device (such as your gas tube).  The voltage
 must be higher than the breakdown voltage of the device.  Frequently 120 VAC
 from the outlet will do.  I use a variac coupled to a step up transformer so
 I can go to 1000 volts if needs be.
 
 You must put a current limiting resistor in series with the gas tube to keep
 from blowing a circuit breaker and damaging the gas tube.  If the gas tube
 is firing, it will have a voltage across it at whatever level the breakdown
 voltage is.  If it is not firing, the full applied voltage will be measured.
 If it is shorted, very low or no voltage will be seen.
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Mark McElvy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 1:15 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Lightning Surge Suppressers
 
 
 I have some Altelicon glass tube lightning surge arresters. I am trying
 to figure out how to test then to see if they are good. I have used an
 ohm meter to compare a new one with an old one I suspected to be bad but
 all reads the same. The replaceable glass tube measures open on bothe
 old and new.
 
 
 
 Mark McElvy
 AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Lightning Surge Suppressers

2008-05-20 Thread Mark McElvy
I guess the question would changing the glass tube be a fix all or can
the assembly go bad?

Mark McElvy
AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.



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Re: [WISPA] lightning rods?

2007-08-01 Thread Graham McIntire
I made one out of an old (shot) bearing that came with my tower (I got
it free for taking it down) and a few pieces of stranded heavier gauge
copper wire.  The bearing was for a mast I don't use, so I was able to
mount it on the very top of my tower since it already had the mount
for it there.  It's only grounded to the tower metal itself and has
been up for a little over a year.  I haven't blown a radio on that
tower yet, so I presume it's doing the job... we've had plenty of
lightning storms come through this year.

Graham

On 8/1/07, RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I've been seeing these little lightning rods at truck inspection
 stops on the interstate. They look like metal daisies. Anyone have an
 idea where to get them? I hear they work well. Take a look at:
 http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?f=7t=9734hilit=
 Scroll way down!
 -RickG
 
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 feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists.  The current 
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Re: [WISPA] lightning rods?

2007-08-01 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
That is a homemade static dissipater's.  Basically the manufactured 
designs look like a stainless steel or copper bottle brush.  The concept 
as it was explained to me some years ago at trade show is that each of 
the tips dissipates static electric charges to the atmosphere.  Works 
like the static wicks on trailing edge of aircraft wings.  Basically 
lightening is just static.  REALLY BIG STATIC on STEROIDS!


For a real explanation on how it works check the following links.  By 
the way some of our guys in S. and Central Florida swear by these things.


http://www.nottltd.com/lightning.html

http://www.nottltd.com/article.html

Tracy Tippett

RickG wrote:

I've been seeing these little lightning rods at truck inspection
stops on the interstate. They look like metal daisies. Anyone have an
idea where to get them? I hear they work well. Take a look at:
http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?f=7t=9734hilit=
Scroll way down!
-RickG

Would you like to see your advertisement here?  Let the WISPA Board know your 
feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists.  The current 
Board is taking this under consideration at this time.  We want to know your 
thoughts.

  


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Territorial Sales Manager

Western US  Canada

Electro-Comm Distributing Inc.

303-917-2264 cell

866-582-7287 H-office

800-525-0173 ECD office

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.ecommwireless.com

www.shopecbiz.com



Wireless data  voice connectivity products are our only business!  
Our trained staff and friendly service, keep it simple, so you can concentrate on your business.






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Re: [WISPA] Lightning Protection

2007-05-30 Thread Jaron Parsons

Jim,
I too have the pleasure of enjoying the wonderful Kansas Storms...
Our main tower had been hit three times (in a row, in one season) while 
i have been using it for wireless, and I got fed up with changing out 
the equipment each time.  I have found that on most of the towers, if it 
has a good ground, and you leave some of the tower, or a pole up higher 
than your equipment, there are no Lightning problems.  On our main tower 
however, it was not grounded well.  So in doing a little research I came 
across this kit from glen martin (I am sure there are others out there 
too) http://www.glenmartin.com/catalog/lightning.htm
It came with everything but the wire to run down the side of the tower, 
which i was able to purchase from our local electric dept.
I installed it, as well as drove a rod at each leg (it was a self 
supporting tower with three legs) and grounded each as well.  since this 
was installed, I have not had a single problem through two seasons of 
storms now. I also installed a surge protection system , in my equipment 
room, that is connected to a ground bar that is tied to the tower as 
well. (an electrician told me to make sure your have your grounds tied 
together.  Something about ground differentials, or equipment from two 
different grounding sources.  I cannot remember the exact reason)
In the past it seemed I was losing the equipment (or more specifically 
the mini-pci cards) from at least one tower everytime it decided to 
cloud over, due to another problem as well.  Come to find out most of 
that problem was related to static build up on the antennas. (in fact 
every Omni directional antenna i had nearly, popped a card each time it 
clouded over)  I found a solution to that as well, which you can read 
about here ( http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?f=7t=9734hilit= 
Topic:Wireless card recieve blows issue, in Wireless Networking Category 
) on the Mikrotik Forums.  Again  Since implementing it, Havent lost a 
single card.


Hope this all helps.

Jaron Parsons
Sumner Communications

Jim Stout wrote:

Spring arrived in Kansas City and so did the thunder storms.  I took a 
lightning stike on my tower and lost both APs, the POEs, two switches and a 
Mikrotik router.  The Antennas survived but it looks like I lost a little gain. 
 My question is how do I protect against this happening again?  Are lightning 
rods effective?  Any thoughts will be appreciated.  I don't want to have to 
replace everything again.

TIA, Jim

Jim Stout
LTO Communications, LLC
15701 Henry Andrews Dr
Pleasant Hill, MO 64080
(816) 305-1076 - Mobile
(816) 497-0033 - Pager
  


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Re: [WISPA] Lightning Protection

2007-05-30 Thread Mike Hammett

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_loop_%28electricity%29


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Jaron Parsons [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lightning Protection



Jim,
I too have the pleasure of enjoying the wonderful Kansas Storms...
Our main tower had been hit three times (in a row, in one season) while i 
have been using it for wireless, and I got fed up with changing out the 
equipment each time.  I have found that on most of the towers, if it has a 
good ground, and you leave some of the tower, or a pole up higher than 
your equipment, there are no Lightning problems.  On our main tower 
however, it was not grounded well.  So in doing a little research I came 
across this kit from glen martin (I am sure there are others out there 
too) http://www.glenmartin.com/catalog/lightning.htm
It came with everything but the wire to run down the side of the tower, 
which i was able to purchase from our local electric dept.
I installed it, as well as drove a rod at each leg (it was a self 
supporting tower with three legs) and grounded each as well.  since this 
was installed, I have not had a single problem through two seasons of 
storms now. I also installed a surge protection system , in my equipment 
room, that is connected to a ground bar that is tied to the tower as well. 
(an electrician told me to make sure your have your grounds tied together. 
Something about ground differentials, or equipment from two different 
grounding sources.  I cannot remember the exact reason)
In the past it seemed I was losing the equipment (or more specifically the 
mini-pci cards) from at least one tower everytime it decided to cloud 
over, due to another problem as well.  Come to find out most of that 
problem was related to static build up on the antennas. (in fact every 
Omni directional antenna i had nearly, popped a card each time it clouded 
over)  I found a solution to that as well, which you can read about here 
( http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?f=7t=9734hilit= Topic:Wireless 
card recieve blows issue, in Wireless Networking Category ) on the 
Mikrotik Forums.  Again  Since implementing it, Havent lost a single card.


Hope this all helps.

Jaron Parsons
Sumner Communications

Jim Stout wrote:
Spring arrived in Kansas City and so did the thunder storms.  I took a 
lightning stike on my tower and lost both APs, the POEs, two switches and 
a Mikrotik router.  The Antennas survived but it looks like I lost a 
little gain.  My question is how do I protect against this happening 
again?  Are lightning rods effective?  Any thoughts will be appreciated. 
I don't want to have to replace everything again.


TIA, Jim

Jim Stout
LTO Communications, LLC
15701 Henry Andrews Dr
Pleasant Hill, MO 64080
(816) 305-1076 - Mobile
(816) 497-0033 - Pager



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Re: [WISPA] lightning

2006-10-17 Thread Jenco Wireless
DigiKey lists a standard inductance for each core and the frequencies they filter. Its been awhile since I researched them, but my primary focus was the FM interference and my secondary was just to get as much inductance as possible for lightning suppression. - the more times you loop the cable through it, the greater the inductance. I go for as many loops as I can possibly get. A lot of times, I buy the inductor mostlybased an the physical size that will work for my application. I use them on just about everything, even my RF pig-tails (with no looping).



Brad Hagstrom


On 10/17/06, Dylan Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How do you compute the total amount of inductance? Based on the length/properties of the Cat5 alone? Would you mind posting the formula or, better, a spreadsheet like that posted for solar? 
Best,-- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC --WISPA Wireless List: 
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RE: [WISPA] lightning

2006-10-17 Thread rwf



Yep-

We 
look at Hamfests for any inductor with a "big hole" and pass the Ethernet or 
COAX through with as many turns as we can cram in the hole.

Ralph



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jenco 
WirelessSent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:42 AMTo: WISPA 
General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] lightning

DigiKey lists a standard inductance for each core and the frequencies they 
filter. Its been awhile since I researched them, but my primary focus was 
the FM interference and my secondary was just to get as much inductance as 
possible for lightning suppression. - the more times you loop the cable 
through it, the greater the inductance. I go for as many loops as I can 
possibly get. A lot of times, I buy the inductor mostlybased an the 
physical size that will work for my application. I use them on just about 
everything, even my RF pig-tails (with no looping). 


Brad Hagstrom


On 10/17/06, Dylan 
Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote: 
How 
  do you compute the total amount of inductance? Based on the length/properties 
  of the Cat5 alone? Would you mind posting the formula or, better, a 
  spreadsheet like that posted for solar? 
  Best,-- Dylan 
  Oliver Primaverity, LLC --WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
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Re: [WISPA] lightning

2006-10-17 Thread Jenco Wireless
It's the simple method - but it works !


Brad H

On 10/17/06, rwf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Yep-

We look at Hamfests for any inductor with a big hole and pass the Ethernet or COAX through with as many turns as we can cram in the hole.


Ralph



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jenco WirelessSent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:42 AMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] lightning



DigiKey lists a standard inductance for each core and the frequencies they filter. Its been awhile since I researched them, but my primary focus was the FM interference and my secondary was just to get as much inductance as possible for lightning suppression. - the more times you loop the cable through it, the greater the inductance. I go for as many loops as I can possibly get. A lot of times, I buy the inductor mostlybased an the physical size that will work for my application. I use them on just about everything, even my RF pig-tails (with no looping). 



Brad Hagstrom


On 10/17/06, Dylan Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote: 
How do you compute the total amount of inductance? Based on the length/properties of the Cat5 alone? Would you mind posting the formula or, better, a spreadsheet like that posted for solar? 
Best,-- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC --WISPA Wireless List: 
wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless 
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
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RE: [WISPA] lightning

2006-10-16 Thread Paul Hendry








Hi Brad,



Im curious as to why you chose this
particular model of ferrite and if you run poe through these cables? Did these
resolve a problem you where having with interference on the cat5?











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Jenco Wireless
Sent: 08 October 2006 00:33
To: WISPA
 General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning







http://pdfcatalog.digikey.com/T063/1150.pdf#search=%22digikey%20240-2318-nd%22











I use the 240-2318-ND (towards the bottom of the page). Just wrap
the Ethernet cable through it as many times as possible. You have to
purchase 100 to get that low, low price I mentioned :-). We are located
in Ohio. 























Brad Hagstrom





(Jenco Wireless)







On 10/7/06, KyWiFi
LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote: 

Can you share some info on the $1.50 inductor you reference below?
Do you then ground the inductor to the mounting arm which is then 
grounded to an earth ground? Please share if you don't mind, inquiring
minds would LOVE to know. ;-)

Also, where are the bulk of your subscribers located (city/state)? I
would venture to say that WISP's out west have fewer lightning 
related failures than WISP's in the East or South.


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling,
 Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL 
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message -
From: Jenco Wireless  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List
wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning


I lost 15% of my CPE's one year.It was a dry Summer (I theorize the
earth
was not conducting well), then we had a couple of bad
storms.Usinga
$1.50 inductor on the Ethernet cable near the radios really seems to have 
helped a lot.


Brad Hagstrom


On 10/7/06, Jason Hensley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Actually, I've been fairly lucky.The only lightning losses
I've had were 
 on my tower.I've got one CPE that may have been taken out by
lightning,
 but it came through the house and blew a LOT
of other stuff as well.To
 me,
 to add $30 per install doesn't make sense when I've only lost 1 
 (percentage-wise, less than 1% for me) in a little over a year.




 - Original Message -
 From: KyWiFi LLC 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List
wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 2:53 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning 


  Lightning is by far the largest threat to our WISP. It would be
  interesting
  to know the typical CPE failure rate (due to lightning) experienced
by
  WISP's. I know that we'll replace 10% (+/- 5%) this year due to 
 lightning.
  We use the $30 Citel brand Cat5 surge protectors on both ends of the
  outdoor shielded Cat5 and we also ground the mounting arm to an
approved
  earth ground via 10 guage copper wire. I don't believe we've taken
any 
  direct strikes, mainly blown Ethernet ports on the CPE or AP. IMO,
 owning
  a WISP would be a LOT less stressful if wireless gear was not so
prone
 to
  damage caused by lightning. 
 
  BTW, if you would like to share your own CPE-lightning-failure-rates
 with
  the list, please do so. Same goes for lightning protection tips,
tricks
  and
  wisdom. 
 
  Anyone using coaxial surge protection on 50% or more of your CPE
  installations? If so, would you say that it is worth the extra $15 -
$20
  per install? How do your failure rates with coaxial surge protection 
  compare with installations where there is none?
 
 
  Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
  KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling,
 Kentucky
  Your Hometown Broadband Provider 
  http://www.KyWiFi.com
  Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
  ===
  $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
  $14.99 Home Phone Service 
  $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
  - No Phone Line Required for DSL
  - FREE Activation  Equipment
  - Affordable Upfront Pricing
  - Locally Owned  Operated 
  - We Also Service Most Rural Areas
  ===
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Brent Hegerfeld  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: 'WISPA General List'
wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 5:06 PM
  Subject: RE: [WISPA] lightning 
 
 
  Lightning has not been very kind to us the past few
months.Knocked a
  backhaul out on our main tower, another tower hit 3 times (twice in 1
  week),
  another tower hit this past week, going on 10+ CPE's.I'm
told the 
  probability of lightning over the next 4 months is
low.Let's hope.
 
  Brent Hegerfeld
  East Allen High Speed Internet, LLC.
 
 
  -Original Message- 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On
  Behalf Of KyWiFi LLC
  Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:31 PM 
  To: WISPA

Re: [WISPA] lightning

2006-10-16 Thread Jenco Wireless
Hi Paul. I chose this model for an FM tower and the total amount of inductance. They work fine for PoE as well. After using these, I was able to get my Ethernet speed increased from 10 Mbps to 100 on several different devices on this tower, so they definitely worked for that.




On 10/16/06, Paul Hendry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Hi Brad,

I'm curious as to why you chose this particular model of ferrite and if you run poe through these cables? Did these resolve a problem you where having with interference on the cat5?






From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
On Behalf Of Jenco WirelessSent: 08 October 2006 00:33 
To: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] lightning






http://pdfcatalog.digikey.com/T063/1150.pdf#search=%22digikey%20240-2318-nd%22



I use the 240-2318-ND (towards the bottom of the page). Just wrap the Ethernet cable through it as many times as possible. You have to purchase 100 to get that low, low price I mentioned :-). We are located in Ohio. 








Brad Hagstrom

(Jenco Wireless)

On 10/7/06, KyWiFi LLC 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
Can you share some info on the $1.50 inductor you reference below?Do you then ground the inductor to the mounting arm which is then grounded to an earth ground? Please share if you don't mind, inquiring
minds would LOVE to know. ;-)Also, where are the bulk of your subscribers located (city/state)? Iwould venture to say that WISP's out west have fewer lightning related failures than WISP's in the East or South.
Shannon D. Denniston, Co-FounderKyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, KentuckyYour Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.comCall Us Today: 859.274.4033===$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet$14.99 Home Phone Service$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV- No Phone Line Required for DSL 
- FREE Activation  Equipment- Affordable Upfront Pricing- Locally Owned  Operated- We Also Service Most Rural Areas===- Original Message -From: Jenco Wireless  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: WISPA General List 
wireless@wispa.orgSent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 11:02 AMSubject: Re: [WISPA] lightningI lost 15% of my CPE's one year.It was a dry Summer (I theorize the earthwas not conducting well), then we had a couple of bad storms.Usinga
$1.50 inductor on the Ethernet cable near the radios really seems to have helped a lot.Brad HagstromOn 10/7/06, Jason Hensley 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, I've been fairly lucky.The only lightning losses I've had were  on my tower.I've got one CPE that may have been taken out by lightning, but it came through the house and blew a LOT of other stuff as well.To
 me, to add $30 per install doesn't make sense when I've only lost 1  (percentage-wise, less than 1% for me) in a little over a year. - Original Message -
 From: KyWiFi LLC  [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List 
wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning 
  Lightning is by far the largest threat to our WISP. It would be  interesting  to know the typical CPE failure rate (due to lightning) experienced by  WISP's. I know that we'll replace 10% (+/- 5%) this year due to 
 lightning.  We use the $30 Citel brand Cat5 surge protectors on both ends of the  outdoor shielded Cat5 and we also ground the mounting arm to an approved  earth ground via 10 guage copper wire. I don't believe we've taken any 
  direct strikes, mainly blown Ethernet ports on the CPE or AP. IMO, owning  a WISP would be a LOT less stressful if wireless gear was not so prone to  damage caused by lightning. 
   BTW, if you would like to share your own CPE-lightning-failure-rates with  the list, please do so. Same goes for lightning protection tips, tricks  and  wisdom. 
   Anyone using coaxial surge protection on 50% or more of your CPE  installations? If so, would you say that it is worth the extra $15 - $20  per install? How do your failure rates with coaxial surge protection 
  compare with installations where there is none?Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder  KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky  Your Hometown Broadband Provider 
  http://www.KyWiFi.com  Call Us Today: 859.274.4033  ===
  $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet  $14.99 Home Phone Service   $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV  - No Phone Line Required for DSL  - FREE Activation  Equipment
  - Affordable Upfront Pricing  - Locally Owned  Operated   - We Also Service Most Rural Areas  ===- Original Message -
  From: Brent Hegerfeld  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  To: 'WISPA General List' 
wireless@wispa.org  Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 5:06 PM  Subject: RE: [WISPA] lightning 
Lightning has not been very kind to us the past few months.Knocked a  backhaul out on our main tower, another tower hit 3 times (twice in 1  week),  another tower hit this past week, going on 10+ CPE's.I'm told the 
  probability of lightning over the next 4 months is low.Let's hope.   Brent Hegerfeld  East Allen High

Re: [WISPA] lightning

2006-10-09 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181



lol, I always do that at the radio end. Maybe 
because I wad it up, not coil it up?

Marlon(509) 
982-2181 
Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
(Vonage) 
Consulting services42846865 
(icq) 
And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jenco 
  Wireless 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:35 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning
  
  Good point - also,I forgot to mention the other reason I lost so 
  many CPE's - don't leave a big roll if extra cable - that lowers the 
  impedance.
  
  
  On 10/8/06, Jason 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote: 
  I 
use ferrite beads for the same reason.Sometimes I use 2; one at 
theradio and one right before the cables enter the house.DO 
NOT put them on a ground wire since that's where you want the 
lightning's current togo.Because its current has such a fast 
rise and fall time, lightningbehaves like ac or rf.That's 
why ground wires are supposed to be as straight as possible, and if you 
have to bend it, you should make theradius of the bend as large as you 
can.A tight bend acts as a coil(increased impedance) and 
will cause the lightning to look for a betterpath.Ferrite 
beads do the same thing.By putting a ferrite on thecables, 
you still let your signals through, but it looks less invitingfor the 
lightning.JasonJenco Wireless wrote: Contrary to 
popular belief, lightning likes to follow the path of  least 
inductance.Inductance is the resistance to a change in 
current flow.All I can say is that they have worked for 
me. On 10/7/06, *Dylan 
Oliver*  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote: On 10/7/06, *Jenco Wireless* 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote: http://pdfcatalog.digikey.com/T063/1150.pdf#search=%22digikey%20240-2318-nd%22 
http://pdfcatalog.digikey.com/T063/1150.pdf#search=%22digikey%20240-2318-nd%22 
 I 
use the 240-2318-ND (towards the bottom of the 
page).Just 
wrap the Ethernet cable through it as many times as 
possible. You have 
to purchase 100 to get that low, low price I 
 mentioned 
:-).We are located in 
Ohio. Sounds like this is 
more for reducing EMI .. how do you figure 
it protects from lightning 
damage? Best, 
 -- Dylan 
Oliver Primaverity, 
LLC -- WISPA 
Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org 
mailto: 
wireless@wispa.org 
Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless 
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 
http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/--WISPA 
Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless 
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
  
  

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Re: [WISPA] lightning

2006-10-09 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
We don't run filters on much of anything.  We almost never have cpe get 
blown.


What kind of gear are you using?

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: KyWiFi LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 12:53 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning


Lightning is by far the largest threat to our WISP. It would be 
interesting

to know the typical CPE failure rate (due to lightning) experienced by
WISP's. I know that we'll replace 10% (+/- 5%) this year due to lightning.
We use the $30 Citel brand Cat5 surge protectors on both ends of the
outdoor shielded Cat5 and we also ground the mounting arm to an approved
earth ground via 10 guage copper wire. I don't believe we've taken any
direct strikes, mainly blown Ethernet ports on the CPE or AP. IMO, owning
a WISP would be a LOT less stressful if wireless gear was not so prone to
damage caused by lightning.

BTW, if you would like to share your own CPE-lightning-failure-rates with
the list, please do so. Same goes for lightning protection tips, tricks 
and

wisdom.

Anyone using coaxial surge protection on 50% or more of your CPE
installations? If so, would you say that it is worth the extra $15 - $20
per install? How do your failure rates with coaxial surge protection
compare with installations where there is none?


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - 
From: Brent Hegerfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 5:06 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] lightning


Lightning has not been very kind to us the past few months.  Knocked a
backhaul out on our main tower, another tower hit 3 times (twice in 1 
week),

another tower hit this past week, going on 10+ CPE's.  I'm told the
probability of lightning over the next 4 months is low.  Let's hope.

Brent Hegerfeld
East Allen High Speed Internet, LLC.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of KyWiFi LLC
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:31 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning

We offer an optional $4.99 Equipment Protection Plan for residential
subscribers and it's $9.99 for Commercial and Non-Profit accounts.
If they wish to waive it, they must furnish us with documentation from
their insurance agency stating that it will be covered. No exceptions.
As a result, approx. 95% of our subscribers purchase our EPP. The
added revenue allows us to cover the cost of CPE that gets taken out
by lightning and the associated service call fees we incur.


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - 
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning


If it's your equipment and the customer didn't damage it (hit it with a 
rock

etc.) then
it's your problem to deal with.

The cheaper the gear, usually the easier it is to break :-).

I've had much less trouble this year with cpe from Tranzeo than from any
other brand I've
used.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



 - Original Message - 
 From: chris cooper

 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] lightning


 We had the lightning storm of the century here 2 days ago.  It was an
awesome spectacle
to witness.  It was a much more distressing spectacle to watch our network
map begin to
blink red all over the place.  Which leads me to a couple of questions:



 How do you handle customer installations that get fried

Re: [WISPA] lightning

2006-10-08 Thread Jason
I use ferrite beads for the same reason.  Sometimes I use 2; one at the 
radio and one right before the cables enter the house.  DO NOT put them 
on a ground wire since that's where you want the lightning's current to 
go.  Because its current has such a fast rise and fall time, lightning 
behaves like ac or rf.  That's why ground wires are supposed to be as 
straight as possible, and if you have to bend it, you should make the 
radius of the bend as large as you can.  A tight bend acts as a coil 
(increased impedance) and will cause the lightning to look for a better 
path.  Ferrite beads do the same thing.  By putting a ferrite on the 
cables, you still let your signals through, but it looks less inviting 
for the lightning.


Jason

Jenco Wireless wrote:
Contrary to popular belief, lightning likes to follow the path of 
least inductance.  Inductance is the resistance to a change in current 
flow.  All I can say is that they have worked for me.
 
 
 

 
On 10/7/06, *Dylan Oliver* [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


On 10/7/06, *Jenco Wireless*  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


http://pdfcatalog.digikey.com/T063/1150.pdf#search=%22digikey%20240-2318-nd%22

http://pdfcatalog.digikey.com/T063/1150.pdf#search=%22digikey%20240-2318-nd%22
 
I use the 240-2318-ND (towards the bottom of the page).  Just
wrap the Ethernet cable through it as many times as possible. 
You have to purchase 100 to get that low, low price I

mentioned :-).  We are located in Ohio.


Sounds like this is more for reducing EMI .. how do you figure it
protects from lightning damage?
 


Best,
-- 
Dylan Oliver

Primaverity, LLC
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Re: [WISPA] lightning

2006-10-08 Thread Jenco Wireless
Good point - also,I forgot to mention the other reason I lost so many CPE's - don't leave a big roll if extra cable - that lowers the impedance.


On 10/8/06, Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I use ferrite beads for the same reason.Sometimes I use 2; one at theradio and one right before the cables enter the house.DO NOT put them
on a ground wire since that's where you want the lightning's current togo.Because its current has such a fast rise and fall time, lightningbehaves like ac or rf.That's why ground wires are supposed to be as
straight as possible, and if you have to bend it, you should make theradius of the bend as large as you can.A tight bend acts as a coil(increased impedance) and will cause the lightning to look for a better
path.Ferrite beads do the same thing.By putting a ferrite on thecables, you still let your signals through, but it looks less invitingfor the lightning.JasonJenco Wireless wrote: Contrary to popular belief, lightning likes to follow the path of
 least inductance.Inductance is the resistance to a change in current flow.All I can say is that they have worked for me. On 10/7/06, *Dylan Oliver* 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/7/06, *Jenco Wireless*  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
http://pdfcatalog.digikey.com/T063/1150.pdf#search=%22digikey%20240-2318-nd%22 http://pdfcatalog.digikey.com/T063/1150.pdf#search=%22digikey%20240-2318-nd%22
 I use the 240-2318-ND (towards the bottom of the page).Just wrap the Ethernet cable through it as many times as possible. You have to purchase 100 to get that low, low price I
 mentioned :-).We are located in Ohio. Sounds like this is more for reducing EMI .. how do you figure it protects from lightning damage? Best,
 -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:
wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: 
http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
--WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
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Re: [WISPA] lightning

2006-10-07 Thread KyWiFi LLC
Lightning is by far the largest threat to our WISP. It would be interesting
to know the typical CPE failure rate (due to lightning) experienced by
WISP's. I know that we'll replace 10% (+/- 5%) this year due to lightning.
We use the $30 Citel brand Cat5 surge protectors on both ends of the
outdoor shielded Cat5 and we also ground the mounting arm to an approved
earth ground via 10 guage copper wire. I don't believe we've taken any
direct strikes, mainly blown Ethernet ports on the CPE or AP. IMO, owning
a WISP would be a LOT less stressful if wireless gear was not so prone to
damage caused by lightning.

BTW, if you would like to share your own CPE-lightning-failure-rates with
the list, please do so. Same goes for lightning protection tips, tricks and
wisdom.

Anyone using coaxial surge protection on 50% or more of your CPE
installations? If so, would you say that it is worth the extra $15 - $20
per install? How do your failure rates with coaxial surge protection
compare with installations where there is none?


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - 
From: Brent Hegerfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 5:06 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] lightning


Lightning has not been very kind to us the past few months.  Knocked a
backhaul out on our main tower, another tower hit 3 times (twice in 1 week),
another tower hit this past week, going on 10+ CPE's.  I'm told the
probability of lightning over the next 4 months is low.  Let's hope.

Brent Hegerfeld
East Allen High Speed Internet, LLC.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of KyWiFi LLC
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:31 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning

We offer an optional $4.99 Equipment Protection Plan for residential
subscribers and it's $9.99 for Commercial and Non-Profit accounts.
If they wish to waive it, they must furnish us with documentation from
their insurance agency stating that it will be covered. No exceptions.
As a result, approx. 95% of our subscribers purchase our EPP. The
added revenue allows us to cover the cost of CPE that gets taken out
by lightning and the associated service call fees we incur.


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - 
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning


If it's your equipment and the customer didn't damage it (hit it with a rock
etc.) then 
it's your problem to deal with.

The cheaper the gear, usually the easier it is to break :-).

I've had much less trouble this year with cpe from Tranzeo than from any
other brand I've 
used.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



  - Original Message - 
  From: chris cooper
  To: 'WISPA General List'
  Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 7:55 AM
  Subject: [WISPA] lightning


  We had the lightning storm of the century here 2 days ago.  It was an
awesome spectacle 
to witness.  It was a much more distressing spectacle to watch our network
map begin to 
blink red all over the place.  Which leads me to a couple of questions:



  How do you handle customer installations that get fried?  We install and
own the gear. 
We are taking the external ones on the chin.  We took down one panel that
has a big black 
hole right in the center. Another customer has a hole in his roof- our gear
died along 
with the roof. What do you do if the customer AC takes a shot, and burns
your equipment? 
Do they pay because it came in on their side or do you take the replacement
and the truck 
roll on the chin because you own the equipment?



  We have multiple brands of products on the same towers.  The tower that
took a hit was 
populated with, among other things, some B-14s, proxim QB, and some

RE: [WISPA] lightning

2006-10-07 Thread Harold Bledsoe
I have a friend that is a tech for VZ and goes around replacing cell
gear hit by lightning.  Even with the protection that VZ puts on their
equipment, grounding, surge arrestors, etc., let's just say he gets a
lot of overtime during the summer.  ;-)  No matter what you do to try to
protect the gear, you will still see some failures.  Of course, those
failures can be reduced by adding surge protection.

I think you have to look at the numbers to see if they work for you.  If
you can estimate your failure rate and the cost each failure costs, then
you can compare with the $30~50 more you will spend to try to protect
it.  Also, you can compare the cost to the cost of a radio that has
built-in surge protection (usually a few $$ more to pay for the
protection device).  If the numbers work out, then add the protection.
If it does not, then don't.

Of course there is also the health aspect I suppose...  ;-)

-Hal
__
Harold Bledsoe
Deliberant LLC
800.742.9865 x205
http://www.deliberant.com

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of KyWiFi LLC
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 3:53 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning

Lightning is by far the largest threat to our WISP. It would be
interesting to know the typical CPE failure rate (due to lightning)
experienced by WISP's. I know that we'll replace 10% (+/- 5%) this year
due to lightning.
We use the $30 Citel brand Cat5 surge protectors on both ends of the
outdoor shielded Cat5 and we also ground the mounting arm to an approved
earth ground via 10 guage copper wire. I don't believe we've taken any
direct strikes, mainly blown Ethernet ports on the CPE or AP. IMO,
owning a WISP would be a LOT less stressful if wireless gear was not so
prone to damage caused by lightning.

BTW, if you would like to share your own CPE-lightning-failure-rates
with the list, please do so. Same goes for lightning protection tips,
tricks and wisdom.

Anyone using coaxial surge protection on 50% or more of your CPE
installations? If so, would you say that it is worth the extra $15 - $20
per install? How do your failure rates with coaxial surge protection
compare with installations where there is none?


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message -
From: Brent Hegerfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 5:06 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] lightning


Lightning has not been very kind to us the past few months.  Knocked a
backhaul out on our main tower, another tower hit 3 times (twice in 1
week),
another tower hit this past week, going on 10+ CPE's.  I'm told the
probability of lightning over the next 4 months is low.  Let's hope.

Brent Hegerfeld
East Allen High Speed Internet, LLC.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of KyWiFi LLC
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:31 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning

We offer an optional $4.99 Equipment Protection Plan for residential
subscribers and it's $9.99 for Commercial and Non-Profit accounts.
If they wish to waive it, they must furnish us with documentation from
their insurance agency stating that it will be covered. No exceptions.
As a result, approx. 95% of our subscribers purchase our EPP. The
added revenue allows us to cover the cost of CPE that gets taken out
by lightning and the associated service call fees we incur.


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - 
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning


If it's your equipment and the customer didn't damage it (hit it with a
rock
etc.) then 
it's your problem to deal with.

The cheaper the gear, usually the easier it is to break :-).

I've had much less trouble this year with cpe from Tranzeo than from any
other brand I've 
used.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq

Re: [WISPA] lightning

2006-10-07 Thread Jason Hensley
Actually, I've been fairly lucky.  The only lightning losses I've had were 
on my tower.  I've got one CPE that may have been taken out by lightning, 
but it came through the house and blew a LOT of other stuff as well.  To me, 
to add $30 per install doesn't make sense when I've only lost 1 
(percentage-wise, less than 1% for me) in a little over a year.





- Original Message - 
From: KyWiFi LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 2:53 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning


Lightning is by far the largest threat to our WISP. It would be 
interesting

to know the typical CPE failure rate (due to lightning) experienced by
WISP's. I know that we'll replace 10% (+/- 5%) this year due to lightning.
We use the $30 Citel brand Cat5 surge protectors on both ends of the
outdoor shielded Cat5 and we also ground the mounting arm to an approved
earth ground via 10 guage copper wire. I don't believe we've taken any
direct strikes, mainly blown Ethernet ports on the CPE or AP. IMO, owning
a WISP would be a LOT less stressful if wireless gear was not so prone to
damage caused by lightning.

BTW, if you would like to share your own CPE-lightning-failure-rates with
the list, please do so. Same goes for lightning protection tips, tricks 
and

wisdom.

Anyone using coaxial surge protection on 50% or more of your CPE
installations? If so, would you say that it is worth the extra $15 - $20
per install? How do your failure rates with coaxial surge protection
compare with installations where there is none?


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - 
From: Brent Hegerfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 5:06 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] lightning


Lightning has not been very kind to us the past few months.  Knocked a
backhaul out on our main tower, another tower hit 3 times (twice in 1 
week),

another tower hit this past week, going on 10+ CPE's.  I'm told the
probability of lightning over the next 4 months is low.  Let's hope.

Brent Hegerfeld
East Allen High Speed Internet, LLC.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of KyWiFi LLC
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:31 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning

We offer an optional $4.99 Equipment Protection Plan for residential
subscribers and it's $9.99 for Commercial and Non-Profit accounts.
If they wish to waive it, they must furnish us with documentation from
their insurance agency stating that it will be covered. No exceptions.
As a result, approx. 95% of our subscribers purchase our EPP. The
added revenue allows us to cover the cost of CPE that gets taken out
by lightning and the associated service call fees we incur.


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - 
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning


If it's your equipment and the customer didn't damage it (hit it with a 
rock

etc.) then
it's your problem to deal with.

The cheaper the gear, usually the easier it is to break :-).

I've had much less trouble this year with cpe from Tranzeo than from any
other brand I've
used.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



 - Original Message - 
 From: chris cooper

 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] lightning


 We had the lightning storm of the century here 2 days ago.  It was an
awesome spectacle
to witness.  It was a much more distressing spectacle to watch our network
map begin to
blink red all over the place.  Which leads me to a couple of questions:



 How do you handle customer installations that get fried?  We install and
own the gear.
We are taking

Re: [WISPA] lightning

2006-10-07 Thread Jenco Wireless
I lost 15% of my CPE's one year. It was a dry Summer (I theorize the earth was not conducting well), then we had a couple of bad storms. Using a $1.50 inductor on the Ethernet cable near the radios really seems to have helped a lot.



Brad Hagstrom

On 10/7/06, Jason Hensley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Actually, I've been fairly lucky.The only lightning losses I've had wereon my tower.I've got one CPE that may have been taken out by lightning,
but it came through the house and blew a LOT of other stuff as well.To me,to add $30 per install doesn't make sense when I've only lost 1(percentage-wise, less than 1% for me) in a little over a year.
- Original Message -From: KyWiFi LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: WISPA General List 
wireless@wispa.orgSent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 2:53 AMSubject: Re: [WISPA] lightning Lightning is by far the largest threat to our WISP. It would be interesting to know the typical CPE failure rate (due to lightning) experienced by
 WISP's. I know that we'll replace 10% (+/- 5%) this year due to lightning. We use the $30 Citel brand Cat5 surge protectors on both ends of the outdoor shielded Cat5 and we also ground the mounting arm to an approved
 earth ground via 10 guage copper wire. I don't believe we've taken any direct strikes, mainly blown Ethernet ports on the CPE or AP. IMO, owning a WISP would be a LOT less stressful if wireless gear was not so prone to
 damage caused by lightning. BTW, if you would like to share your own CPE-lightning-failure-rates with the list, please do so. Same goes for lightning protection tips, tricks and
 wisdom. Anyone using coaxial surge protection on 50% or more of your CPE installations? If so, would you say that it is worth the extra $15 - $20 per install? How do your failure rates with coaxial surge protection
 compare with installations where there is none? Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky Your Hometown Broadband Provider 
http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV - No Phone Line Required for DSL
 - FREE Activation  Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned  Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas === - Original Message -
 From: Brent Hegerfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 5:06 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] lightning Lightning has not been very kind to us the past few months.Knocked a backhaul out on our main tower, another tower hit 3 times (twice in 1
 week), another tower hit this past week, going on 10+ CPE's.I'm told the probability of lightning over the next 4 months is low.Let's hope. Brent Hegerfeld East Allen High Speed Internet, LLC.
 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
] On Behalf Of KyWiFi LLC Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning We offer an optional $4.99 Equipment Protection Plan for residential
 subscribers and it's $9.99 for Commercial and Non-Profit accounts. If they wish to waive it, they must furnish us with documentation from their insurance agency stating that it will be covered. No exceptions.
 As a result, approx. 95% of our subscribers purchase our EPP. The added revenue allows us to cover the cost of CPE that gets taken out by lightning and the associated service call fees we incur.
 Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky Your Hometown Broadband Provider http://www.KyWiFi.com
 Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV - No Phone Line Required for DSL
 - FREE Activation  Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned  Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas === - Original Message -
 From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List 
wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning If it's your equipment and the customer didn't damage it (hit it with a
 rock etc.) then it's your problem to deal with. The cheaper the gear, usually the easier it is to break :-). I've had much less trouble this year with cpe from Tranzeo than from any
 other brand I've used. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
- Original Message -From: chris cooperTo: 'WISPA General List'Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 7:55 AMSubject: [WISPA] lightning
We had the lightning storm of the century here 2 days ago.It was an awesome spectacle to witness.It was a much more distressing spectacle to watch our network map begin to blink red all over the place.Which

Re: [WISPA] lightning

2006-10-07 Thread KyWiFi LLC
Can you share some info on the $1.50 inductor you reference below?
Do you then ground the inductor to the mounting arm which is then
grounded to an earth ground? Please share if you don't mind, inquiring
minds would LOVE to know. ;-)

Also, where are the bulk of your subscribers located (city/state)? I
would venture to say that WISP's out west have fewer lightning
related failures than WISP's in the East or South.


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - 
From: Jenco Wireless [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning


I lost 15% of my CPE's one year.  It was a dry Summer (I theorize the earth
was not conducting well), then we had a couple of bad storms.  Using  a
$1.50 inductor on the Ethernet cable near the radios really seems to have
helped a lot.


Brad Hagstrom


On 10/7/06, Jason Hensley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Actually, I've been fairly lucky.  The only lightning losses I've had were
 on my tower.  I've got one CPE that may have been taken out by lightning,
 but it came through the house and blew a LOT of other stuff as well.  To
 me,
 to add $30 per install doesn't make sense when I've only lost 1
 (percentage-wise, less than 1% for me) in a little over a year.




 - Original Message -
 From: KyWiFi LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 2:53 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning


  Lightning is by far the largest threat to our WISP. It would be
  interesting
  to know the typical CPE failure rate (due to lightning) experienced by
  WISP's. I know that we'll replace 10% (+/- 5%) this year due to
 lightning.
  We use the $30 Citel brand Cat5 surge protectors on both ends of the
  outdoor shielded Cat5 and we also ground the mounting arm to an approved
  earth ground via 10 guage copper wire. I don't believe we've taken any
  direct strikes, mainly blown Ethernet ports on the CPE or AP. IMO,
 owning
  a WISP would be a LOT less stressful if wireless gear was not so prone
 to
  damage caused by lightning.
 
  BTW, if you would like to share your own CPE-lightning-failure-rates
 with
  the list, please do so. Same goes for lightning protection tips, tricks
  and
  wisdom.
 
  Anyone using coaxial surge protection on 50% or more of your CPE
  installations? If so, would you say that it is worth the extra $15 - $20
  per install? How do your failure rates with coaxial surge protection
  compare with installations where there is none?
 
 
  Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
  KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
  Your Hometown Broadband Provider
  http://www.KyWiFi.com
  Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
  ===
  $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
  $14.99 Home Phone Service
  $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
  - No Phone Line Required for DSL
  - FREE Activation  Equipment
  - Affordable Upfront Pricing
  - Locally Owned  Operated
  - We Also Service Most Rural Areas
  ===
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Brent Hegerfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 5:06 PM
  Subject: RE: [WISPA] lightning
 
 
  Lightning has not been very kind to us the past few months.  Knocked a
  backhaul out on our main tower, another tower hit 3 times (twice in 1
  week),
  another tower hit this past week, going on 10+ CPE's.  I'm told the
  probability of lightning over the next 4 months is low.  Let's hope.
 
  Brent Hegerfeld
  East Allen High Speed Internet, LLC.
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
  Behalf Of KyWiFi LLC
  Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:31 PM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning
 
  We offer an optional $4.99 Equipment Protection Plan for residential
  subscribers and it's $9.99 for Commercial and Non-Profit accounts.
  If they wish to waive it, they must furnish us with documentation from
  their insurance agency stating that it will be covered. No exceptions.
  As a result, approx. 95% of our subscribers purchase our EPP. The
  added revenue allows us to cover the cost of CPE that gets taken out
  by lightning and the associated service call fees we incur.
 
 
  Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
  KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
  Your Hometown Broadband Provider
  http://www.KyWiFi.com
  Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
  ===
  $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
  $14.99 Home Phone Service
  $19.99 All Digital

Re: [WISPA] lightning

2006-10-07 Thread Jenco Wireless
http://pdfcatalog.digikey.com/T063/1150.pdf#search=%22digikey%20240-2318-nd%22

I use the 240-2318-ND (towards the bottom of the page). Just wrap the Ethernet cable through it as many times as possible. You have to purchase 100 to get that low, low price I mentioned :-). We are located in Ohio.




Brad Hagstrom
(Jenco Wireless)
On 10/7/06, KyWiFi LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can you share some info on the $1.50 inductor you reference below?Do you then ground the inductor to the mounting arm which is then
grounded to an earth ground? Please share if you don't mind, inquiringminds would LOVE to know. ;-)Also, where are the bulk of your subscribers located (city/state)? Iwould venture to say that WISP's out west have fewer lightning
related failures than WISP's in the East or South.Shannon D. Denniston, Co-FounderKyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, KentuckyYour Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.comCall Us Today: 859.274.4033===$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet$14.99 Home Phone Service$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment- Affordable Upfront Pricing- Locally Owned  Operated- We Also Service Most Rural Areas===- Original Message -From: Jenco Wireless 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgSent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightningI lost 15% of my CPE's one year.It was a dry Summer (I theorize the earthwas not conducting well), then we had a couple of bad storms.Usinga$1.50 inductor on the Ethernet cable near the radios really seems to have
helped a lot.Brad HagstromOn 10/7/06, Jason Hensley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, I've been fairly lucky.The only lightning losses I've had were
 on my tower.I've got one CPE that may have been taken out by lightning, but it came through the house and blew a LOT of other stuff as well.To me, to add $30 per install doesn't make sense when I've only lost 1
 (percentage-wise, less than 1% for me) in a little over a year. - Original Message - From: KyWiFi LLC 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning
  Lightning is by far the largest threat to our WISP. It would be  interesting  to know the typical CPE failure rate (due to lightning) experienced by  WISP's. I know that we'll replace 10% (+/- 5%) this year due to
 lightning.  We use the $30 Citel brand Cat5 surge protectors on both ends of the  outdoor shielded Cat5 and we also ground the mounting arm to an approved  earth ground via 10 guage copper wire. I don't believe we've taken any
  direct strikes, mainly blown Ethernet ports on the CPE or AP. IMO, owning  a WISP would be a LOT less stressful if wireless gear was not so prone to  damage caused by lightning.
   BTW, if you would like to share your own CPE-lightning-failure-rates with  the list, please do so. Same goes for lightning protection tips, tricks  and  wisdom.
   Anyone using coaxial surge protection on 50% or more of your CPE  installations? If so, would you say that it is worth the extra $15 - $20  per install? How do your failure rates with coaxial surge protection
  compare with installations where there is none?Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder  KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky  Your Hometown Broadband Provider
  http://www.KyWiFi.com  Call Us Today: 859.274.4033  ===  $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet  $14.99 Home Phone Service
  $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV  - No Phone Line Required for DSL  - FREE Activation  Equipment  - Affordable Upfront Pricing  - Locally Owned  Operated
  - We Also Service Most Rural Areas  ===- Original Message -  From: Brent Hegerfeld 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org  Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 5:06 PM  Subject: RE: [WISPA] lightning
Lightning has not been very kind to us the past few months.Knocked a  backhaul out on our main tower, another tower hit 3 times (twice in 1  week),  another tower hit this past week, going on 10+ CPE's.I'm told the
  probability of lightning over the next 4 months is low.Let's hope.   Brent Hegerfeld  East Allen High Speed Internet, LLC.-Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On  Behalf Of KyWiFi LLC  Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:31 PM
  To: WISPA General List  Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning   We offer an optional $4.99 Equipment Protection Plan for residential  subscribers and it's $9.99 for Commercial and Non-Profit accounts.
  If they wish to waive it, they must furnish us with documentation from  their insurance agency stating that it will be covered. No exceptions.  As a result, approx. 95% of our subscribers purchase our EPP. The
  added revenue allows us to cover the cost of CPE that gets taken out  by lightning and the associated service call fees we incur.Shannon D. Denniston, Co

Re: [WISPA] lightning

2006-10-07 Thread Dylan Oliver
On 10/7/06, Jenco Wireless [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://pdfcatalog.digikey.com/T063/1150.pdf#search=%22digikey%20240-2318-nd%22


I use the 240-2318-ND (towards the bottom of the page). Just wrap the Ethernet cable through it as many times as possible. You have to purchase 100 to get that low, low price I mentioned :-). We are located in Ohio.
Sounds like this is more for reducing EMI .. how do you figure it protects from lightning damage?Best,-- Dylan OliverPrimaverity, LLC
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Re: [WISPA] lightning

2006-10-07 Thread Jenco Wireless
Contrary to popular belief, lightning likes to follow the path of least inductance. Inductance is the resistance to a change in current flow. All I can say is that they have worked for me.


 
On 10/7/06, Dylan Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 10/7/06, Jenco Wireless 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 


http://pdfcatalog.digikey.com/T063/1150.pdf#search=%22digikey%20240-2318-nd%22 


I use the 240-2318-ND (towards the bottom of the page). Just wrap the Ethernet cable through it as many times as possible. You have to purchase 100 to get that low, low price I mentioned :-). We are located in Ohio. 

Sounds like this is more for reducing EMI .. how do you figure it protects from lightning damage?Best,-- Dylan OliverPrimaverity, LLC --WISPA Wireless List: 
wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

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Re: [WISPA] lightning

2006-10-06 Thread Scott Reed




What a storm in Indiana!
We, too, own the radios and have been taking the loss.


Scott Reed 


Owner 


NewWays 


Wireless Networking 


Network Design, Installation and Administration 


www.nwwnet.net 




-- Original Message 
---

From: chris cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org 


Sent: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 10:55:53 -0400 


Subject: [WISPA] lightning 



 We had the lightning storm of the century here 2 
days
ago.  It was an awesome spectacle to witness.  It was a much 
more
distressing spectacle to watch our network map begin to blink red all over 
the
place.  Which leads me to a couple of 
questions:

  


 How do you handle customer installations that 
get
fried?  We install and own the gear.  We are taking the external 
ones
on the chin.  We took down one panel that has a big black hole right 
in
the center. Another customer has a hole in his roof- our gear died along 
with
the roof. What do you do if the customer AC takes a shot, and burns 
your
equipment?  Do they pay because it came in on their side or do you 
take
the replacement and the truck roll on the chin because you own the 
equipment?

  


 We have multiple brands of products on the 
same
towers.  The tower that took a hit was populated with, among other 
things,
some B-14s, proxim QB, and some Tranzeos.  All units are grounded to 
the
same structure/bussbar. The Tranzeos seem much more sensitive to lightning 
than
some of the other products.  Has anyone had any similar experiences 
with
them?

  


 Thanks

 Chris

--- End of Original Message 
---






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Re: [WISPA] lightning

2006-10-06 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181



If it's your equipment and the customer didn't 
damage it (hit it with a rock etc.) then it's your problem to deal 
with.

The cheaper the gear, usually the easier it is to 
break :-).

I've had much less trouble this year with cpe from 
Tranzeo than from any other brand I've used.

Marlon(509) 
982-2181 
Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
(Vonage) 
Consulting services42846865 
(icq) 
And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  chris 
  cooper 
  To: 'WISPA General List' 
  Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 7:55 
  AM
  Subject: [WISPA] lightning
  
  
  We had the lightning storm of the 
  century here 2 days ago. It was an awesome spectacle to witness. 
  It was a much more distressing spectacle to watch our network map begin to 
  blink red all over the place. Which leads me to a couple of 
  questions:
  
  How do you handle customer 
  installations that get fried? We install and own the gear. We are 
  taking the external ones on the chin. We took down one panel that has a 
  big black hole right in the center. Another customer has a hole in his roof- 
  our gear died along with the roof. What do you do if the customer AC takes a 
  shot, and burns your equipment? Do they pay because it came in on their 
  side or do you take the replacement and the truck roll on the chin because you 
  own the equipment?
  
  We have multiple brands of 
  products on the same towers. The tower that took a hit was populated 
  with, among other things, some B-14s, proxim QB, and some Tranzeos. All 
  units are grounded to the same structure/bussbar. The Tranzeos seem much more 
  sensitive to lightning than some of the other products. Has anyone had 
  any similar experiences with them?
  
  Thanks
  Chris
  
  

  -- WISPA Wireless List: 
  wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: 
  http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
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Re: [WISPA] lightning

2006-10-06 Thread KyWiFi LLC
We offer an optional $4.99 Equipment Protection Plan for residential
subscribers and it's $9.99 for Commercial and Non-Profit accounts.
If they wish to waive it, they must furnish us with documentation from
their insurance agency stating that it will be covered. No exceptions.
As a result, approx. 95% of our subscribers purchase our EPP. The
added revenue allows us to cover the cost of CPE that gets taken out
by lightning and the associated service call fees we incur.


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - 
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning


If it's your equipment and the customer didn't damage it (hit it with a rock 
etc.) then 
it's your problem to deal with.

The cheaper the gear, usually the easier it is to break :-).

I've had much less trouble this year with cpe from Tranzeo than from any other 
brand I've 
used.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



  - Original Message - 
  From: chris cooper
  To: 'WISPA General List'
  Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 7:55 AM
  Subject: [WISPA] lightning


  We had the lightning storm of the century here 2 days ago.  It was an awesome 
spectacle 
to witness.  It was a much more distressing spectacle to watch our network map 
begin to 
blink red all over the place.  Which leads me to a couple of questions:



  How do you handle customer installations that get fried?  We install and own 
the gear. 
We are taking the external ones on the chin.  We took down one panel that has a 
big black 
hole right in the center. Another customer has a hole in his roof- our gear 
died along 
with the roof. What do you do if the customer AC takes a shot, and burns your 
equipment? 
Do they pay because it came in on their side or do you take the replacement and 
the truck 
roll on the chin because you own the equipment?



  We have multiple brands of products on the same towers.  The tower that took 
a hit was 
populated with, among other things, some B-14s, proxim QB, and some Tranzeos.  
All units 
are grounded to the same structure/bussbar. The Tranzeos seem much more 
sensitive to 
lightning than some of the other products.  Has anyone had any similar 
experiences with 
them?



  Thanks

  Chris



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RE: [WISPA] lightning

2006-10-06 Thread Brent Hegerfeld
Lightning has not been very kind to us the past few months.  Knocked a
backhaul out on our main tower, another tower hit 3 times (twice in 1 week),
another tower hit this past week, going on 10+ CPE's.  I'm told the
probability of lightning over the next 4 months is low.  Let's hope.


Brent Hegerfeld
East Allen High Speed Internet, LLC.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of KyWiFi LLC
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:31 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning

We offer an optional $4.99 Equipment Protection Plan for residential
subscribers and it's $9.99 for Commercial and Non-Profit accounts.
If they wish to waive it, they must furnish us with documentation from
their insurance agency stating that it will be covered. No exceptions.
As a result, approx. 95% of our subscribers purchase our EPP. The
added revenue allows us to cover the cost of CPE that gets taken out
by lightning and the associated service call fees we incur.


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - 
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning


If it's your equipment and the customer didn't damage it (hit it with a rock
etc.) then 
it's your problem to deal with.

The cheaper the gear, usually the easier it is to break :-).

I've had much less trouble this year with cpe from Tranzeo than from any
other brand I've 
used.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



  - Original Message - 
  From: chris cooper
  To: 'WISPA General List'
  Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 7:55 AM
  Subject: [WISPA] lightning


  We had the lightning storm of the century here 2 days ago.  It was an
awesome spectacle 
to witness.  It was a much more distressing spectacle to watch our network
map begin to 
blink red all over the place.  Which leads me to a couple of questions:



  How do you handle customer installations that get fried?  We install and
own the gear. 
We are taking the external ones on the chin.  We took down one panel that
has a big black 
hole right in the center. Another customer has a hole in his roof- our gear
died along 
with the roof. What do you do if the customer AC takes a shot, and burns
your equipment? 
Do they pay because it came in on their side or do you take the replacement
and the truck 
roll on the chin because you own the equipment?



  We have multiple brands of products on the same towers.  The tower that
took a hit was 
populated with, among other things, some B-14s, proxim QB, and some
Tranzeos.  All units 
are grounded to the same structure/bussbar. The Tranzeos seem much more
sensitive to 
lightning than some of the other products.  Has anyone had any similar
experiences with 
them?



  Thanks

  Chris




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Re: [WISPA] lightning

2006-10-06 Thread Jason Hensley
Since I own the gear, my insurance company will actually cover under 
equipment located offsite.


We had a bad one here too about a month ago.  Direct hit on a 5.8 omni on 
the tip of my tower.  Disintegrated that antenna, blew the front off the 
Tranzeo 6000 it was connected to.  Took out 2 radios, a couple of switches, 
and a couple of routers.  Could have been worse, but it was bad enough.



- Original Message - 
From: Brent Hegerfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 4:06 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] lightning



Lightning has not been very kind to us the past few months.  Knocked a
backhaul out on our main tower, another tower hit 3 times (twice in 1 
week),

another tower hit this past week, going on 10+ CPE's.  I'm told the
probability of lightning over the next 4 months is low.  Let's hope.


Brent Hegerfeld
East Allen High Speed Internet, LLC.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of KyWiFi LLC
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:31 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning

We offer an optional $4.99 Equipment Protection Plan for residential
subscribers and it's $9.99 for Commercial and Non-Profit accounts.
If they wish to waive it, they must furnish us with documentation from
their insurance agency stating that it will be covered. No exceptions.
As a result, approx. 95% of our subscribers purchase our EPP. The
added revenue allows us to cover the cost of CPE that gets taken out
by lightning and the associated service call fees we incur.


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - 
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning


If it's your equipment and the customer didn't damage it (hit it with a 
rock

etc.) then
it's your problem to deal with.

The cheaper the gear, usually the easier it is to break :-).

I've had much less trouble this year with cpe from Tranzeo than from any
other brand I've
used.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



 - Original Message - 
 From: chris cooper

 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] lightning


 We had the lightning storm of the century here 2 days ago.  It was an
awesome spectacle
to witness.  It was a much more distressing spectacle to watch our network
map begin to
blink red all over the place.  Which leads me to a couple of questions:



 How do you handle customer installations that get fried?  We install and
own the gear.
We are taking the external ones on the chin.  We took down one panel that
has a big black
hole right in the center. Another customer has a hole in his roof- our 
gear

died along
with the roof. What do you do if the customer AC takes a shot, and burns
your equipment?
Do they pay because it came in on their side or do you take the 
replacement

and the truck
roll on the chin because you own the equipment?



 We have multiple brands of products on the same towers.  The tower that
took a hit was
populated with, among other things, some B-14s, proxim QB, and some
Tranzeos.  All units
are grounded to the same structure/bussbar. The Tranzeos seem much more
sensitive to
lightning than some of the other products.  Has anyone had any similar
experiences with
them?



 Thanks

 Chris




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Re: [WISPA] lightning

2006-10-06 Thread Jason Hensley
I guess it was actually a Tranzeo TR5a the 5.8 omni was connected 
to...doh!!!


Killed a 6000 as well though.


- Original Message - 
From: Jason Hensley [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning


Since I own the gear, my insurance company will actually cover under 
equipment located offsite.


We had a bad one here too about a month ago.  Direct hit on a 5.8 omni on 
the tip of my tower.  Disintegrated that antenna, blew the front off the 
Tranzeo 6000 it was connected to.  Took out 2 radios, a couple of 
switches, and a couple of routers.  Could have been worse, but it was bad 
enough.



- Original Message - 
From: Brent Hegerfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 4:06 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] lightning



Lightning has not been very kind to us the past few months.  Knocked a
backhaul out on our main tower, another tower hit 3 times (twice in 1 
week),

another tower hit this past week, going on 10+ CPE's.  I'm told the
probability of lightning over the next 4 months is low.  Let's hope.


Brent Hegerfeld
East Allen High Speed Internet, LLC.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of KyWiFi LLC
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:31 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning

We offer an optional $4.99 Equipment Protection Plan for residential
subscribers and it's $9.99 for Commercial and Non-Profit accounts.
If they wish to waive it, they must furnish us with documentation from
their insurance agency stating that it will be covered. No exceptions.
As a result, approx. 95% of our subscribers purchase our EPP. The
added revenue allows us to cover the cost of CPE that gets taken out
by lightning and the associated service call fees we incur.


Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Your Hometown Broadband Provider
http://www.KyWiFi.com
Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
===
$29.99 DSL High Speed Internet
$14.99 Home Phone Service
$19.99 All Digital Satellite TV
- No Phone Line Required for DSL
- FREE Activation  Equipment
- Affordable Upfront Pricing
- Locally Owned  Operated
- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
===


- Original Message - 
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning


If it's your equipment and the customer didn't damage it (hit it with a 
rock

etc.) then
it's your problem to deal with.

The cheaper the gear, usually the easier it is to break :-).

I've had much less trouble this year with cpe from Tranzeo than from any
other brand I've
used.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



 - Original Message - 
 From: chris cooper

 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] lightning


 We had the lightning storm of the century here 2 days ago.  It was an
awesome spectacle
to witness.  It was a much more distressing spectacle to watch our 
network

map begin to
blink red all over the place.  Which leads me to a couple of questions:



 How do you handle customer installations that get fried?  We install and
own the gear.
We are taking the external ones on the chin.  We took down one panel that
has a big black
hole right in the center. Another customer has a hole in his roof- our 
gear

died along
with the roof. What do you do if the customer AC takes a shot, and burns
your equipment?
Do they pay because it came in on their side or do you take the 
replacement

and the truck
roll on the chin because you own the equipment?



 We have multiple brands of products on the same towers.  The tower that
took a hit was
populated with, among other things, some B-14s, proxim QB, and some
Tranzeos.  All units
are grounded to the same structure/bussbar. The Tranzeos seem much more
sensitive to
lightning than some of the other products.  Has anyone had any similar
experiences with
them?



 Thanks

 Chris




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RE: [WISPA] Lightning hits

2006-08-09 Thread Chad Halsted
I'm not 100% sure, but my first inclination would be no.  If lightning
hits your tower and the equipment/tower is not properly grounded with
surge suppression in place, it will get blown, whether it is powered up
or not.  Current is still going to flow through the radio; it just won't
make it out the Ethernet because you unplugged the line.

Chad

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 10:32 AM
To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization
Subject: [WISPA] Lightning hits

I have a Canopy 900 that is getting taken out from static.  Until I can 
get the right solution in place to prevent this, I have a question.  If 
I unplug the power from the radio when a storm is coming will the radio 
survive?  It is still in the air, but there is no power to it.  I am 
trying to save the RF side.  Will it work.

Brian
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Re: [WISPA] Lightning hits

2006-08-09 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
I am not worried about lightning strikes because I cannot stop that.  
Mostly the part where stuff catches on fire.


The problem seems to lie in the fact that I have an 11ft tall omni that 
is the second tallest thing on the tower and it sucks in static like a 
vaccum and takes out the RF side.  So would powering off save the RF 
until I figure out what can be done with the tower (grain leg)


Brian

Chad Halsted wrote:


I'm not 100% sure, but my first inclination would be no.  If lightning
hits your tower and the equipment/tower is not properly grounded with
surge suppression in place, it will get blown, whether it is powered up
or not.  Current is still going to flow through the radio; it just won't
make it out the Ethernet because you unplugged the line.

Chad

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 10:32 AM
To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization
Subject: [WISPA] Lightning hits

I have a Canopy 900 that is getting taken out from static.  Until I can 
get the right solution in place to prevent this, I have a question.  If 
I unplug the power from the radio when a storm is coming will the radio 
survive?  It is still in the air, but there is no power to it.  I am 
trying to save the RF side.  Will it work.


Brian
 


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RE: [WISPA] Lightning hits

2006-08-09 Thread Chad Halsted
I really don't think it's going to make a difference.  If it's pulling
in that much energy through the antenna, it's got to go somewhere, and
the only place it can go is through your pigtail strait to the radio.
If the radio isn't properly grounded to the tower, and the tower
properly grounded to well, the ground, something is going to get smoked.
I don't THINK it's going to matter much if the power is on or not.  

But hey, it's worth a shot.  It sure won't hurt to try.  

One of our 50' towers has a big ham yagi antenna on the top of it.  The
home owner said that his yagi was pulling in so much static he could
hear it arcing from across the room. It was arcing from the connector on
the end of the cable to a nail that was driven into a 2X4 stud.  There
wasn't a cloud in the sky at that time either.

That's some crazy stuff.

Good Luck!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 1:35 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lightning hits

I am not worried about lightning strikes because I cannot stop that.  
Mostly the part where stuff catches on fire.

The problem seems to lie in the fact that I have an 11ft tall omni that 
is the second tallest thing on the tower and it sucks in static like a 
vaccum and takes out the RF side.  So would powering off save the RF 
until I figure out what can be done with the tower (grain leg)

Brian

Chad Halsted wrote:

I'm not 100% sure, but my first inclination would be no.  If lightning
hits your tower and the equipment/tower is not properly grounded with
surge suppression in place, it will get blown, whether it is powered up
or not.  Current is still going to flow through the radio; it just
won't
make it out the Ethernet because you unplugged the line.

Chad

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 10:32 AM
To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization
Subject: [WISPA] Lightning hits

I have a Canopy 900 that is getting taken out from static.  Until I can

get the right solution in place to prevent this, I have a question.  If

I unplug the power from the radio when a storm is coming will the radio

survive?  It is still in the air, but there is no power to it.  I am 
trying to save the RF side.  Will it work.

Brian
  

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Re: [WISPA] Lightning hits

2006-08-09 Thread Ron Wallace
Hey Brian,
You should have a lightning arrestor between the antenna and radio, well grounded to the tower, also an arrestor between the radio and your red barn, well grounded. That should protect the radio as well as can be. 

7/1/05, my tower was hit, I had all the arrestors in place, and well grounded. Of the 4 AP's on the tower one survived, but I have had good luck since.Ron Wallace Hahnron, Inc. 220 S. Jackson Dt. Addison, MI 49220 Phone: (517)547-8410 Mobile: (517)605-4542 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]-Original Message-From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2006 11:32 AMTo: 'Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization'Subject: [WISPA] Lightning hitsI have a Canopy 900 that is getting taken out from static. Until I can get the right solution in place to prevent this, I have a question. If I unplug the power from the radio when a storm is coming will the radio survive? It is still in the air, but there is no power to it. I am trying to save the RF side. Will it work.Brian-- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
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RE: [WISPA] Lightning Protection

2006-02-20 Thread chris cooper








So does this mean that cabling and
equipment should be grounded to same source? I understand grounding the
cable prior to entry. Does grounding my cable to one ground and then
using the shelter power, which is on a different ground, set up a potential on
the equipment? Maybe disconnect the ground on the power side and bond
everything to a single point?



Chris









Your sapose to do both ground
outside before you get to the shelter portand insideto tie into the
ground ring inside the shelter.






























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Re: [WISPA] Lightning Protection

2006-02-17 Thread michaeldavidlake

Your sapose to do both ground outside before you get to the shelter portand insideto tie into the ground ring inside the shelter.


Your grounding should be every 75 to 100 feet of your cable run down the tower.So if you have 300 feet of cable run your going to have 3 grounds in your system TOP, MIDDLE, BOTTOM. I usually see at least two TOP and BOTTOM, one at the ODU and one inside or sometimes outside if the grounding bar/ring is on the outside of the tower.Nothing really wrong with just two, butone every 75-100 feetis standard.
It can be different from tower to tower depending onhow the site was engineered and built. Example most ALtel sites have a ground bar at the port entery ( outside) to the shelter which ties into the main ground ring, on this site yes you would ground outside. You still have to ground the equipment to the rack inside the shelter, but your surge supressor would go outside. Other sites you will have to ground inside because the site designhas the bus bar ( ground bar ) inside just after the entery port. Both designs are very common. So to answer yes it does good to have a supressor inside its you last defence untill you get to the radio ( idu ) and then as long as its grounded to the rack and the rack is grounded to the ground ring inside the shelter it should be a well protected link but even then it isnt a garrenty that you are 100% safe. Lightning is a strange hazzarded to try to ward off. I am in Florida so I see just about everything as far as protect
 ion goes. And I can tell you right now that if your customer isnt a MAJOR carrier you site is probably not properly designed aganst lightning strikes so you need to bring them up to speed and properly ground the site or the customer is just asking for trouble.I work with a local WISP that had no Idea about grounding and I have had to redesign the ground rings on most of their sites. SO FYI it doesnt matter how much protection you put in if it isnt properlydesign inside and shelter and outyour equipment will get fried everytime.


Mike
-Original Message- From: JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: wireless@wispa.orgSent: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 01:20:54 -0600Subject: [WISPA] Lightning Protectione 


Does is really do any good to have the supressor inside of the enclosure grounded to everything inside ? I thought the suppressor was supposed to go straight to ground ?http://www.kywifi.com/images/vptower/CIMG5529.jpgCan someone clarify - I think we've been doing this wrong all of these years if this IS the proper way to do it .JohnnyO
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Re: [WISPA] Lightning Protection

2006-02-16 Thread JohnnyO




The only reason I asked this and think it's funny - *no offense intended* is b/c one of my techs did an install like this - Apparently when the tower got struck by lightning - the enclosure exploded due to the discharge ring on the supressor inside of the box... I mean literally exploded. I had routerboard / enclosure crap for 100s of ft all around the tower. Wish I could have gotten that on video.

On Fri, 2006-02-17 at 01:20 -0600, JohnnyO wrote:

Does is really do any good to have the supressor inside of the enclosure grounded to everything inside ? I thought the suppressor was supposed to go straight to ground ?

http://www.kywifi.com/images/vptower/CIMG5529.jpg


Can someone clarify - I think we've been doing this wrong all of these years if this IS the proper way to do it .

JohnnyO





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Re: [WISPA] Lightning protecting WRAPs

2005-09-28 Thread Tom DeReggi

Blair,

I am using a DC to DC converter with each of my WRAPs so they are powered 
with the Lucent standard 48V POE.  The D-Link 5V/12V switchable POE units 
work fine for this.


I take it then that the D-Link 12V Poe terminator then acts sorta like a 
fuse or barrier between the WRAP and the 48V POE.  How do you get the Dlink 
12V POE terminator inside the radio case? Does it just hang inside? What is 
that combination POE costing you?


I use flooded, shielded, with drain wire, outdoor CAT5 cable.  (about $75 
for 1000ft)  I tie the drain wire to the coax and WRAP board ground 
topside.  I ground the coax to the tower/antenna mount.  Ground the drain 
wire at the power injector.


Great idea, using the drain wire cable.  What brand cable do you use, that 
only costs $75 a spool?


I'm paying about $265 for Superior Essex without a drain wire.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc

Since doing this, I have had NO WRAP failures, and no spike induced 
lockups that require a power off/on cycle.
Using this in other locations, (non WRAP) seems to have eliminated the 
need for POE/ethernet surge protectors..


We have had several major thunderstorm systems go thru since then.  I have 
not lost any equipment at locations I have done this at.  We used to loose 
a WRAP or 2 with each major storm front.


Note that shielded CAT5 doesn't seem to be good enough.  The drain wire 
seems to be required.


Blair

Tom DeReggi wrote:


What are people doing for WRAP board lightning protection?

Basically the WRAP board has a part that blows up, if it receives more 
than 21 Volts to its DC input.
So a typical CAT5 Lightning protector that protects the DC pairs at only 
35V, 50V or 60V would pretty much be useless for protecting the WRAP over 
the DC lines.


Any Protectors on the market that start to clamp at 20V DC?  I'm guessing 
most people are just going without lightning protections, and settling 
for UPS protection on the AC line?


What about the COAX/antenna side? If installing the WRAP radio up on a 
tower, with an external antenna with a 3 foot Caox cable to it, are you 
guys, springing for the COAX lighting protector?


For a several 10 ft run down a tower, of course the COAX protection 
should be used, but for a 3 ft run?


I like the WRAP boards, but the 21V max tolerance, I think could end up 
being a major flaw for wide scale deployment.
What are others finding?  I like the design of the Mikrotik 532's better, 
but to standardize on it, I need to know that there is more than one 
distributor/reseller of the product nationwide.  Hopefully the production 
will improve once the product becomes more mainstream.



Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband



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Re: [WISPA] Lightning protecting WRAPs

2005-09-28 Thread Blair Davis




Tom DeReggi wrote:
Blair,
  
  
  I am using a DC to DC converter with each of
my WRAPs so they are powered with the Lucent standard 48V POE. The
D-Link 5V/12V switchable POE units work fine for this.

  
  
I take it then that the D-Link 12V Poe terminator then acts sorta like
a fuse or barrier between the WRAP and the 48V POE. How do you get the
Dlink 12V POE terminator inside the radio case? Does it just hang
inside? What is that combination POE costing you?
  
  

I would not say it acts as a fuse. It doesn't 'blow out'. It just
seems to be much more tolerant of voltage spikes on its input side
while keeping the 12VDC output side steady. I build my own cases for
the WRAPs using FiberCor boxes. I just let the POE dangle in the radio
box. I also buy a 1ft network cable to use with it in the radio box.
The D-Link POE is about $30 or so.

  I use flooded, shielded, with drain wire,
outdoor CAT5 cable. (about $75 for 1000ft) I tie the drain wire to
the coax and WRAP board ground topside. I ground the coax to the
tower/antenna mount. Ground the drain wire at the power injector.

  
  
Great idea, using the drain wire cable. What brand cable do you use,
that only costs $75 a spool?
  


I get it from ARC wireless. Part number SW-CAB-108190.

Speak to Ken. Here is his contact info

<>Kenneth M. Muscato
National Sales Manager
Mobile Base Station
 Flat Panel Antennas  Cable Products
<>

Wireless Communications Solutions Division,
ARC Wireless
Solutions, Inc.
219 West Tanglewood Drive
Arlington Heights, IL
60004

<>Ph# 847-778-2589
email address [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.antennas.com

Please tell him I sent you there.



I'm paying about $265 for Superior Essex without a drain wire.
  
  
Tom DeReggi
  
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
  
  
  Since doing this, I have had NO WRAP
failures, and no spike induced lockups that require a power off/on
cycle.

Using this in other locations, (non WRAP) seems to have eliminated the
need for POE/ethernet surge protectors..


We have had several major thunderstorm systems go thru since then. I
have not lost any equipment at locations I have done this at. We used
to loose a WRAP or 2 with each major storm front.


Note that shielded CAT5 doesn't seem to be good enough. The drain wire
seems to be required.


Blair


Tom DeReggi wrote:


What are people doing for WRAP board
lightning protection?
  
  
Basically the WRAP board has a part that blows up, if it receives more
than 21 Volts to its DC input.
  
So a typical CAT5 Lightning protector that protects the DC pairs at
only 35V, 50V or 60V would pretty much be useless for protecting the
WRAP over the DC lines.
  
  
Any Protectors on the market that start to clamp at 20V DC? I'm
guessing most people are just going without lightning protections, and
settling for UPS protection on the AC line?
  
  
What about the COAX/antenna side? If installing the WRAP radio up on a
tower, with an external antenna with a 3 foot Caox cable to it, are you
guys, springing for the COAX lighting protector?
  
  
For a several 10 ft run down a tower, of course the COAX protection
should be used, but for a 3 ft run?
  
  
I like the WRAP boards, but the 21V max tolerance, I think could end up
being a major flaw for wide scale deployment.
  
What are others finding? I like the design of the Mikrotik 532's
better, but to standardize on it, I need to know that there is more
than one distributor/reseller of the product nationwide. Hopefully the
production will improve once the product becomes more mainstream.
  
  
  
Tom DeReggi
  
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
  
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
  
  
  

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AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC



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Re: [WISPA] Lightning protecting WRAPs

2005-09-28 Thread Dylan Oliver
What is FiberCor, and where do you get it? Would you post a pic of one of these assemblies?
Thanks,-- Dylan OliverPrimaverity, LLC
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Re: [WISPA] Lightning protecting WRAPs

2005-09-28 Thread Brian Rohrbacher




I just ordered the cat 5 from ARC Wireless. He gave me a price of
.0689 per foot. GREAT DEAL! Thanks Blair.

Brian

Blair Davis wrote:

  
  
Tom DeReggi wrote:
  Blair, 

I am using a DC to DC converter with each
of
my WRAPs so they are powered with the Lucent standard 48V POE. The
D-Link 5V/12V switchable POE units work fine for this. 


I take it then that the D-Link 12V Poe terminator then acts sorta like
a fuse or barrier between the WRAP and the 48V POE. How do you get the
Dlink 12V POE terminator inside the radio case? Does it just hang
inside? What is that combination POE costing you? 

  
I would not say it acts as a fuse. It doesn't 'blow out'. It just
seems to be much more tolerant of voltage spikes on its input side
while keeping the 12VDC output side steady. I build my own cases for
the WRAPs using FiberCor boxes. I just let the POE dangle in the radio
box. I also buy a 1ft network cable to use with it in the radio box.
The D-Link POE is about $30 or so.
  
I use flooded, shielded, with drain wire,
outdoor CAT5 cable. (about $75 for 1000ft) I tie the drain wire to
the coax and WRAP board ground topside. I ground the coax to the
tower/antenna mount. Ground the drain wire at the power injector. 


Great idea, using the drain wire cable. What brand cable do you use,
that only costs $75 a spool? 
  
  
I get it from ARC wireless. Part number SW-CAB-108190.
  
Speak to Ken. Here is his contact info
  
Kenneth M. Muscato
National Sales Manager
  Mobile Base Station
 Flat Panel Antennas  Cable Products

  
Wireless Communications Solutions Division,
  ARC Wireless
Solutions, Inc.
  219 West Tanglewood Drive
  Arlington Heights, IL
  60004
  
Ph# 847-778-2589
email address [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  www.antennas.com
  
Please tell him I sent you there.
  
  
  
I'm paying about $265 for Superior Essex without a drain wire. 

Tom DeReggi 
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc 

Since doing this, I have had NO WRAP
failures, and no spike induced lockups that require a power off/on
cycle. 
Using this in other locations, (non WRAP) seems to have eliminated the
need for POE/ethernet surge protectors.. 
  
We have had several major thunderstorm systems go thru since then. I
have not lost any equipment at locations I have done this at. We used
to loose a WRAP or 2 with each major storm front. 
  
Note that shielded CAT5 doesn't seem to be good enough. The drain wire
seems to be required. 
  
Blair 
  
Tom DeReggi wrote: 
  
  What are people doing for WRAP board
lightning protection? 

Basically the WRAP board has a part that blows up, if it receives more
than 21 Volts to its DC input. 
So a typical CAT5 Lightning protector that protects the DC pairs at
only 35V, 50V or 60V would pretty much be useless for protecting the
WRAP over the DC lines. 

Any Protectors on the market that start to clamp at 20V DC? I'm
guessing most people are just going without lightning protections, and
settling for UPS protection on the AC line? 

What about the COAX/antenna side? If installing the WRAP radio up on a
tower, with an external antenna with a 3 foot Caox cable to it, are you
guys, springing for the COAX lighting protector? 

For a several 10 ft run down a tower, of course the COAX protection
should be used, but for a 3 ft run? 

I like the WRAP boards, but the 21V max tolerance, I think could end up
being a major flaw for wide scale deployment. 
What are others finding? I like the design of the Mikrotik 532's
better, but to standardize on it, I need to know that there is more
than one distributor/reseller of the product nationwide. Hopefully the
production will improve once the product becomes more mainstream. 


Tom DeReggi 
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc 
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband 


  
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Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.6/111 - Release Date:
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  -- 
Blair Davis

AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC
  
  

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.6/111 - Release Date: 9/23/2005
  



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Re: [WISPA] Lightning protecting WRAPs

2005-09-27 Thread Blair Davis
I am using a DC to DC converter with each of my WRAPs so they are 
powered with the Lucent standard 48V POE.  The D-Link 5V/12V switchable 
POE units work fine for this.


I use flooded, shielded, with drain wire, outdoor CAT5 cable.  (about 
$75 for 1000ft)  I tie the drain wire to the coax and WRAP board ground 
topside.  I ground the coax to the tower/antenna mount.  Ground the 
drain wire at the power injector.


Since doing this, I have had NO WRAP failures, and no spike induced 
lockups that require a power off/on cycle. 

Using this in other locations, (non WRAP) seems to have eliminated the 
need for POE/ethernet surge protectors..


We have had several major thunderstorm systems go thru since then.  I 
have not lost any equipment at locations I have done this at.  We used 
to loose a WRAP or 2 with each major storm front.


Note that shielded CAT5 doesn't seem to be good enough.  The drain wire 
seems to be required.


Blair

Tom DeReggi wrote:


What are people doing for WRAP board lightning protection?

Basically the WRAP board has a part that blows up, if it receives more 
than 21 Volts to its DC input.
So a typical CAT5 Lightning protector that protects the DC pairs at 
only 35V, 50V or 60V would pretty much be useless for protecting the 
WRAP over the DC lines.


Any Protectors on the market that start to clamp at 20V DC?  I'm 
guessing most people are just going without lightning protections, and 
settling for UPS protection on the AC line?


What about the COAX/antenna side? If installing the WRAP radio up on a 
tower, with an external antenna with a 3 foot Caox cable to it, are 
you guys, springing for the COAX lighting protector?


For a several 10 ft run down a tower, of course the COAX protection 
should be used, but for a 3 ft run?


I like the WRAP boards, but the 21V max tolerance, I think could end 
up being a major flaw for wide scale deployment.
What are others finding?  I like the design of the Mikrotik 532's 
better, but to standardize on it, I need to know that there is more 
than one distributor/reseller of the product nationwide.  Hopefully 
the production will improve once the product becomes more mainstream.



Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband



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