Re: [WISPA] marine interference problem on 2.4 GHz
Oh yeah, 509.988.0260 Sorry about that! marlon - Original Message - From: "Rogelio" To: "Jack Unger" Cc: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] marine interference problem on 2.4 GHz > Jack Unger wrote: >> I respectfully suggest you hire an expert to address this problem. > > In light of Jack's comment, I thought I'd share with everyone my > "non-expert" opinion on what the ultimate problem is/was (I was out > there last week): > > --poorly placed radios, > --poorly placed antennas, and > --some mysterious boat radar > > Without the s-band interference and the boats, there are definitely some > cold spots, but the bands have relatively little interference the vast > majority of the time. A radio higher up hits most of the dock, and a > radio really high up in certain certain areas gives all boats in the > area a fairly okay LOS. (hrping tests at 100ms gave me less than 5% > packet loss at like -65 -> -70 dBm when the radio was about 1000' feet > away high up). Also, you can try to hit the boats from multiple angles, > giving the boats a higher chance of having one or more SSIDs to hit when > one is blocked. > > These boats pay anywhere from $6-8/foot, which can amount to $1000-2000 > per night. They expect Internet access (many of the boat owners own > companies like Monster, Y!, Google, etc) and aren't too forgiving. There > have been a few foreign boats that come in and basically excrete on the > 2.4 GHz band for everyone. No one knows who it is until the big boat > leaves, then all the problems magically go away! > > Anyway, hope this helps others on the list. I got bad/stupid/incomplete > information earlier, hence the general n00b-ish feel to my earlier post. > :b > > If anyone here knows about building stuff on docks in marine > environments, I'd love to talk to you and can probably refer you some > big clients. (I'll perhaps post that in a different thread) > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] marine interference problem on 2.4 GHz
I haven't done a doc lately. But I do have a couple of sites around the water. It can be interesting to say the least. If you want, give me a call and I'll give you an idea or two to go try. If those small scale tests work you should be able to easily fix the whole site. marlon - Original Message - From: "Rogelio" To: "Jack Unger" Cc: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] marine interference problem on 2.4 GHz > Jack Unger wrote: >> I respectfully suggest you hire an expert to address this problem. > > In light of Jack's comment, I thought I'd share with everyone my > "non-expert" opinion on what the ultimate problem is/was (I was out > there last week): > > --poorly placed radios, > --poorly placed antennas, and > --some mysterious boat radar > > Without the s-band interference and the boats, there are definitely some > cold spots, but the bands have relatively little interference the vast > majority of the time. A radio higher up hits most of the dock, and a > radio really high up in certain certain areas gives all boats in the > area a fairly okay LOS. (hrping tests at 100ms gave me less than 5% > packet loss at like -65 -> -70 dBm when the radio was about 1000' feet > away high up). Also, you can try to hit the boats from multiple angles, > giving the boats a higher chance of having one or more SSIDs to hit when > one is blocked. > > These boats pay anywhere from $6-8/foot, which can amount to $1000-2000 > per night. They expect Internet access (many of the boat owners own > companies like Monster, Y!, Google, etc) and aren't too forgiving. There > have been a few foreign boats that come in and basically excrete on the > 2.4 GHz band for everyone. No one knows who it is until the big boat > leaves, then all the problems magically go away! > > Anyway, hope this helps others on the list. I got bad/stupid/incomplete > information earlier, hence the general n00b-ish feel to my earlier post. > :b > > If anyone here knows about building stuff on docks in marine > environments, I'd love to talk to you and can probably refer you some > big clients. (I'll perhaps post that in a different thread) > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] marine interference problem on 2.4 GHz
Jack Unger wrote: > I respectfully suggest you hire an expert to address this problem. In light of Jack's comment, I thought I'd share with everyone my "non-expert" opinion on what the ultimate problem is/was (I was out there last week): --poorly placed radios, --poorly placed antennas, and --some mysterious boat radar Without the s-band interference and the boats, there are definitely some cold spots, but the bands have relatively little interference the vast majority of the time. A radio higher up hits most of the dock, and a radio really high up in certain certain areas gives all boats in the area a fairly okay LOS. (hrping tests at 100ms gave me less than 5% packet loss at like -65 -> -70 dBm when the radio was about 1000' feet away high up). Also, you can try to hit the boats from multiple angles, giving the boats a higher chance of having one or more SSIDs to hit when one is blocked. These boats pay anywhere from $6-8/foot, which can amount to $1000-2000 per night. They expect Internet access (many of the boat owners own companies like Monster, Y!, Google, etc) and aren't too forgiving. There have been a few foreign boats that come in and basically excrete on the 2.4 GHz band for everyone. No one knows who it is until the big boat leaves, then all the problems magically go away! Anyway, hope this helps others on the list. I got bad/stupid/incomplete information earlier, hence the general n00b-ish feel to my earlier post. :b If anyone here knows about building stuff on docks in marine environments, I'd love to talk to you and can probably refer you some big clients. (I'll perhaps post that in a different thread) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] marine interference problem on 2.4 GHz
Yeah. It does sound like a pretty complex issue that would be best served by a consultant specializing in this sort of problem. Can anyone on the list provide the necessary expertise or put Roger in touch with someone who can? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Jack Unger Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 22:47:33 To: ; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] marine interference problem on 2.4 GHz Rog, I respectfully suggest you hire an expert to address this problem. jack Rogelio wrote: > I've got an interesting interference problem in a marine area, and I was > hoping to get some feedback on it. > > Every week or so, something evil on 2.4 GHz comes through and > drastically raises the noise floor for about a day (an analysis showed > me like -50 dBm), thus knocking off everyone in the boat dock area who > is using that AP. > > I was thinking about the following type of solution and wanted to get > some feedback: > > --on each dock (9 total), have two dual radios > --mesh them on an available 5.8 GHz channel (this band is not currently > a problem) > --put in a 2.4 GHz panel antenna on each end (maybe a 19 dBi one that > gives, say, a 30 degree X 30 degree beam coverage). 7 dBm + 19 dBi = 36 > dBm EIRP for ISM band in U.S. > --have panels on each radio pointing in towards the middle dock area > (boats in the middle would have redundant coverage. Boats on the far > edge would likely only be covered by the distant AP) > --cover each dock with two channels, so if one channel is down, another > one is an option (or possibly the same channel on a different polarization) > --possibly use band filters (assuming I know which band is the problem > child) > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm quite new to figuring out RF > problems like this. > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] marine interference problem on 2.4 GHz
If the docks have AC power all along them, have you considered using BPL of some sort? I have many docks in my area asking about internet service, and many times 2.4 ghz across water is a fun experience. I know some companies such as Tendnet make a wireless 2.4 AP that derives it's Internet source through BPL. I have such a unit setting on my shelf for testing, but have not tried yet. Scott -- Original Message -- From: Rogelio Reply-To: scubac...@gmail.com, WISPA General List Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 16:45:18 -0700 >I've got an interesting interference problem in a marine area, and I was >hoping to get some feedback on it. > >Every week or so, something evil on 2.4 GHz comes through and >drastically raises the noise floor for about a day (an analysis showed >me like -50 dBm), thus knocking off everyone in the boat dock area who >is using that AP. > >I was thinking about the following type of solution and wanted to get >some feedback: > >--on each dock (9 total), have two dual radios >--mesh them on an available 5.8 GHz channel (this band is not currently >a problem) >--put in a 2.4 GHz panel antenna on each end (maybe a 19 dBi one that >gives, say, a 30 degree X 30 degree beam coverage). 7 dBm + 19 dBi = 36 >dBm EIRP for ISM band in U.S. >--have panels on each radio pointing in towards the middle dock area >(boats in the middle would have redundant coverage. Boats on the far >edge would likely only be covered by the distant AP) >--cover each dock with two channels, so if one channel is down, another >one is an option (or possibly the same channel on a different polarization) >--possibly use band filters (assuming I know which band is the problem >child) > >Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm quite new to figuring out RF >problems like this. > > > >WISPA Wants You! Join today! >http://signup.wispa.org/ > > >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] marine interference problem on 2.4 GHz
Jack Unger wrote: > I respectfully suggest you hire an expert to address this problem. That's the most polite way I've been told that my idea for a solution sucks! I suppose that until I find an expert, Google is my friend. :) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] marine interference problem on 2.4 GHz
Rog, I respectfully suggest you hire an expert to address this problem. jack Rogelio wrote: > I've got an interesting interference problem in a marine area, and I was > hoping to get some feedback on it. > > Every week or so, something evil on 2.4 GHz comes through and > drastically raises the noise floor for about a day (an analysis showed > me like -50 dBm), thus knocking off everyone in the boat dock area who > is using that AP. > > I was thinking about the following type of solution and wanted to get > some feedback: > > --on each dock (9 total), have two dual radios > --mesh them on an available 5.8 GHz channel (this band is not currently > a problem) > --put in a 2.4 GHz panel antenna on each end (maybe a 19 dBi one that > gives, say, a 30 degree X 30 degree beam coverage). 7 dBm + 19 dBi = 36 > dBm EIRP for ISM band in U.S. > --have panels on each radio pointing in towards the middle dock area > (boats in the middle would have redundant coverage. Boats on the far > edge would likely only be covered by the distant AP) > --cover each dock with two channels, so if one channel is down, another > one is an option (or possibly the same channel on a different polarization) > --possibly use band filters (assuming I know which band is the problem > child) > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm quite new to figuring out RF > problems like this. > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] marine interference problem on 2.4 GHz
Maybe an S band radar is the source of the interference/noise? Check out the frequency here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S_band Typically only larger ships have S band radar (it sees through rain better). Why not put the subs on 5.8ghz? Greg On May 1, 2009, at 7:45 PM, Rogelio wrote: > I've got an interesting interference problem in a marine area, and I > was > hoping to get some feedback on it. > > Every week or so, something evil on 2.4 GHz comes through and > drastically raises the noise floor for about a day (an analysis showed > me like -50 dBm), thus knocking off everyone in the boat dock area who > is using that AP. > > I was thinking about the following type of solution and wanted to get > some feedback: > > --on each dock (9 total), have two dual radios > --mesh them on an available 5.8 GHz channel (this band is not > currently > a problem) > --put in a 2.4 GHz panel antenna on each end (maybe a 19 dBi one that > gives, say, a 30 degree X 30 degree beam coverage). 7 dBm + 19 dBi = > 36 > dBm EIRP for ISM band in U.S. > --have panels on each radio pointing in towards the middle dock area > (boats in the middle would have redundant coverage. Boats on the far > edge would likely only be covered by the distant AP) > --cover each dock with two channels, so if one channel is down, > another > one is an option (or possibly the same channel on a different > polarization) > --possibly use band filters (assuming I know which band is the problem > child) > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm quite new to figuring > out RF > problems like this. > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
