Re: [WISPA] pppoe server, Redback capability of other solutions?
I agree completely on Redback...they are excellent, but expensive. We've seen Ciscos fall down completely in these applications though. Jeff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Muehleisen Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] pppoe server, Redback capability of other solutions? Redback is untouchable in terms of PPPoE aggregation. Cisco is really the only other Router out there that is of Redback's caliber. We currently terminate close to 15,000 subscribers using a Redback SE 400. Attached is our current CPU usage. -Eric rabbtux rabbtux wrote: All I'm in the process of moving over to another upstream provider. I'm working with them closely to get service to my county PUD system that uses pppoe tunnels for virtually all end user connections. ( I know that I can get a vlan, but the cost is prohibitive at the moment) So, I'm their first beta tester in my area and they have this used Redback router. First there were problems that were to be solved with a firmware upgrade, now they have a hardware failure without a spare. I'm not familiar with this router at all, but discussed it with their sysadmin. Apparently the need is for something that can handle 2000 sessions and has full 100Mbps NICs and can support that speed. I'm not a pppoe expert, but would a decent PC, with 4/8GB of RAM and mikrotik SW installed handle something like this??? Butch? or other MT experts? Or is this requirement way out of the MT league? For my own reasons, I want to get them going, promptly! Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!! Marshall Rabbit Meadows Technology -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] pppoe server, Redback capability of other solutions?
Redback routers are very very good at what they do (PPPoX subscriber aggregation) I am not aware of something equivalent in the PC / OpenSource world. Not to side step your question, but what kind of Hardware Failure is causing the 'emergency'. We use Redback routers for our DSL subs, and have plenty of spare equipment on hand. It that can help you any, please feel free to contact me. Regards Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of rabbtux rabbtux Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] pppoe server, Redback capability of other solutions? All I'm in the process of moving over to another upstream provider. I'm working with them closely to get service to my county PUD system that uses pppoe tunnels for virtually all end user connections. ( I know that I can get a vlan, but the cost is prohibitive at the moment) So, I'm their first beta tester in my area and they have this used Redback router. First there were problems that were to be solved with a firmware upgrade, now they have a hardware failure without a spare. I'm not familiar with this router at all, but discussed it with their sysadmin. Apparently the need is for something that can handle 2000 sessions and has full 100Mbps NICs and can support that speed. I'm not a pppoe expert, but would a decent PC, with 4/8GB of RAM and mikrotik SW installed handle something like this??? Butch? or other MT experts? Or is this requirement way out of the MT league? For my own reasons, I want to get them going, promptly! Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!! Marshall Rabbit Meadows Technology WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] pppoe server, Redback capability of other solutions?
Redback is untouchable in terms of PPPoE aggregation. Cisco is really the only other Router out there that is of Redback's caliber. We currently terminate close to 15,000 subscribers using a Redback SE 400. Attached is our current CPU usage. -Eric rabbtux rabbtux wrote: All I'm in the process of moving over to another upstream provider. I'm working with them closely to get service to my county PUD system that uses pppoe tunnels for virtually all end user connections. ( I know that I can get a vlan, but the cost is prohibitive at the moment) So, I'm their first beta tester in my area and they have this used Redback router. First there were problems that were to be solved with a firmware upgrade, now they have a hardware failure without a spare. I'm not familiar with this router at all, but discussed it with their sysadmin. Apparently the need is for something that can handle 2000 sessions and has full 100Mbps NICs and can support that speed. I'm not a pppoe expert, but would a decent PC, with 4/8GB of RAM and mikrotik SW installed handle something like this??? Butch? or other MT experts? Or is this requirement way out of the MT league? For my own reasons, I want to get them going, promptly! Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!! Marshall Rabbit Meadows Technology WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] pppoe server, Redback capability of other solutions?
Also, if you need help with Redback, just ask around. There's a lot of people with a lot of experience with those guys. Faisal from SnappyDSL who posted earlier could point you in the right direction and hook you up with plenty of spare hardware and setup information if desired. Clint Ricker -Kentis Technologies On Feb 7, 2008 10:24 PM, Clint Ricker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I admit that I'm biased against Mikrotik. It's good for what it is, but it's value is primarily in its price / flexibility. It's not exactly...telco/carrier grade, or however you want to put it. It's fine as edge gear, but, not what I'd put in a core role like this. Perhaps in terms of getting it up and running, you may be quicker with something that you know and have a good feel for--ie intel hardware running Mikrotik. However, in terms of reliability, uptime, and scalability, (and I'd assume configuration options) Redback is the way to go. If you want something that is a little more flexible, go Cisco (but, you'd pay more for comparable performance). Price wise, Redback's are very attractive and very easy to get spare equipment for. Plus, you get _good_ hardware. Not throw CPU cycles at it and keep some extra boxes in the closet for when it chokes good; I mean swap out failed power supplies / Ethernet cards / CPUs without any downtime sort of good. Using PCs / Mikrotik is good when you can't get your hands on good gear at a reasonable cost. That's not the case in this situation... -Clint Ricker Kentnis Technologies ps...Please don't turn this into a flame war :). I realize people here love Mikrotik, and it has its purposes. However, in terms of field tested performance and reliability for PPPoE, Mikrotik is a PC based platform that has relatively few PPPoE deployments running under relatively light loads whereas Redback had a really large install base for high volume PPPoE termination and generally proved itself to be a very solid and scalable platform. On Feb 7, 2008 8:40 PM, Eric Muehleisen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Redback is untouchable in terms of PPPoE aggregation. Cisco is really the only other Router out there that is of Redback's caliber. We currently terminate close to 15,000 subscribers using a Redback SE 400. Attached is our current CPU usage. -Eric rabbtux rabbtux wrote: All I'm in the process of moving over to another upstream provider. I'm working with them closely to get service to my county PUD system that uses pppoe tunnels for virtually all end user connections. ( I know that I can get a vlan, but the cost is prohibitive at the moment) So, I'm their first beta tester in my area and they have this used Redback router. First there were problems that were to be solved with a firmware upgrade, now they have a hardware failure without a spare. I'm not familiar with this router at all, but discussed it with their sysadmin. Apparently the need is for something that can handle 2000 sessions and has full 100Mbps NICs and can support that speed. I'm not a pppoe expert, but would a decent PC, with 4/8GB of RAM and mikrotik SW installed handle something like this??? Butch? or other MT experts? Or is this requirement way out of the MT league? For my own reasons, I want to get them going, promptly! Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!! Marshall Rabbit Meadows Technology WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] pppoe server, Redback capability of other solutions?
We have tested 2600 PPPoE sessions with a PoweRouter 732. This with ONE core on only.. Plus, it includes 7 GigE interfaces. Rackmount etc.. Dennis -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of rabbtux rabbtux Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 6:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] pppoe server, Redback capability of other solutions? All I'm in the process of moving over to another upstream provider. I'm working with them closely to get service to my county PUD system that uses pppoe tunnels for virtually all end user connections. ( I know that I can get a vlan, but the cost is prohibitive at the moment) So, I'm their first beta tester in my area and they have this used Redback router. First there were problems that were to be solved with a firmware upgrade, now they have a hardware failure without a spare. I'm not familiar with this router at all, but discussed it with their sysadmin. Apparently the need is for something that can handle 2000 sessions and has full 100Mbps NICs and can support that speed. I'm not a pppoe expert, but would a decent PC, with 4/8GB of RAM and mikrotik SW installed handle something like this??? Butch? or other MT experts? Or is this requirement way out of the MT league? For my own reasons, I want to get them going, promptly! Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!! Marshall Rabbit Meadows Technology WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] pppoe server, Redback capability of other solutions?
On Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 04:22:19PM -0800, rabbtux rabbtux wrote: So, I'm their first beta tester in my area and they have this used Redback router. First there were problems that were to be solved with a firmware upgrade, now they have a hardware failure without a spare. I'm not familiar with this router at all, but discussed it with their sysadmin. Redback should be good stuff, if they didn't get one that someone drug out of a dumpster. Apparently the need is for something that can handle 2000 sessions and has full 100Mbps NICs and can support that speed. I'm not a pppoe expert, but would a decent PC, with 4/8GB of RAM and mikrotik SW installed handle something like this??? Butch? or other MT experts? Or is this requirement way out of the MT league? I have heard of 8,000 sessions terminated on a Cisco 7200VXR with an NPE-G1. I currently have just over 1,700 PPPoEoATM sessions on our used VXR doing about 28Mbps of DSL traffic and our backhaul running about 50Mbps for all of our services (DSL/Wireless/Hosting/Dialup) and it's not working hard. To do that on a PC, with as high an expectation of reliability, I'd probably have spent close to the same amount of money to get high grade, highly redundant parts. -- Scott LambertKC5MLE Unix SysAdmin [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] pppoe server, Redback capability of other solutions?
This is an area that MT has shown considerable interest in as well as have several GOOD hardware products out there. The 1000 is going to be a contender. Not as expandable, but with the price vs performance, don't think you can go wrong. A non MT based product is the PoweRouter 732. There are treads on MTs forums that list 2600 PPPoE sessions with one of the processor cores on, moving 30 meg of traffic with power to spare. Plus both of these are industrial platforms designed to compete with Cisco. The 732 has a MTBF of 100,000+ hours. And I bet the 1000 is about the same. There are hundreds of WISPs across the world that run MT as their cores right now. I think in the next year or two there will be some serious contenders with MT based systems that will rival many well established companies, yes like Cisco, and get a decent market share. The way I see it, the 732, can replace a 20k Cisco for 7% of the price. But as you said, lets not get started on a yours is better than mine war. Not the point of the conversation. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Clint Ricker Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 9:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] pppoe server, Redback capability of other solutions? I admit that I'm biased against Mikrotik. It's good for what it is, but it's value is primarily in its price / flexibility. It's not exactly...telco/carrier grade, or however you want to put it. It's fine as edge gear, but, not what I'd put in a core role like this. Perhaps in terms of getting it up and running, you may be quicker with something that you know and have a good feel for--ie intel hardware running Mikrotik. However, in terms of reliability, uptime, and scalability, (and I'd assume configuration options) Redback is the way to go. If you want something that is a little more flexible, go Cisco (but, you'd pay more for comparable performance). Price wise, Redback's are very attractive and very easy to get spare equipment for. Plus, you get _good_ hardware. Not throw CPU cycles at it and keep some extra boxes in the closet for when it chokes good; I mean swap out failed power supplies / Ethernet cards / CPUs without any downtime sort of good. Using PCs / Mikrotik is good when you can't get your hands on good gear at a reasonable cost. That's not the case in this situation... -Clint Ricker Kentnis Technologies ps...Please don't turn this into a flame war :). I realize people here love Mikrotik, and it has its purposes. However, in terms of field tested performance and reliability for PPPoE, Mikrotik is a PC based platform that has relatively few PPPoE deployments running under relatively light loads whereas Redback had a really large install base for high volume PPPoE termination and generally proved itself to be a very solid and scalable platform. On Feb 7, 2008 8:40 PM, Eric Muehleisen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Redback is untouchable in terms of PPPoE aggregation. Cisco is really the only other Router out there that is of Redback's caliber. We currently terminate close to 15,000 subscribers using a Redback SE 400. Attached is our current CPU usage. -Eric rabbtux rabbtux wrote: All I'm in the process of moving over to another upstream provider. I'm working with them closely to get service to my county PUD system that uses pppoe tunnels for virtually all end user connections. ( I know that I can get a vlan, but the cost is prohibitive at the moment) So, I'm their first beta tester in my area and they have this used Redback router. First there were problems that were to be solved with a firmware upgrade, now they have a hardware failure without a spare. I'm not familiar with this router at all, but discussed it with their sysadmin. Apparently the need is for something that can handle 2000 sessions and has full 100Mbps NICs and can support that speed. I'm not a pppoe expert, but would a decent PC, with 4/8GB of RAM and mikrotik SW installed handle something like this??? Butch? or other MT experts? Or is this requirement way out of the MT league? For my own reasons, I want to get them going, promptly! Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!! Marshall Rabbit Meadows Technology WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] pppoe server, Redback capability of other solutions?
Thanks everyone! It sounds like suggesting an MT-PC based solution to my new upstream provider would not be productive in this situation. Sounds like 2000 sessions really requires a serious solution. I would not want to suggest something like this and have my customers suffer for it. Thanks again. On Feb 7, 2008 9:43 PM, Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an area that MT has shown considerable interest in as well as have several GOOD hardware products out there. The 1000 is going to be a contender. Not as expandable, but with the price vs performance, don't think you can go wrong. A non MT based product is the PoweRouter 732. There are treads on MTs forums that list 2600 PPPoE sessions with one of the processor cores on, moving 30 meg of traffic with power to spare. Plus both of these are industrial platforms designed to compete with Cisco. The 732 has a MTBF of 100,000+ hours. And I bet the 1000 is about the same. There are hundreds of WISPs across the world that run MT as their cores right now. I think in the next year or two there will be some serious contenders with MT based systems that will rival many well established companies, yes like Cisco, and get a decent market share. The way I see it, the 732, can replace a 20k Cisco for 7% of the price. But as you said, lets not get started on a yours is better than mine war. Not the point of the conversation. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Clint Ricker Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 9:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] pppoe server, Redback capability of other solutions? I admit that I'm biased against Mikrotik. It's good for what it is, but it's value is primarily in its price / flexibility. It's not exactly...telco/carrier grade, or however you want to put it. It's fine as edge gear, but, not what I'd put in a core role like this. Perhaps in terms of getting it up and running, you may be quicker with something that you know and have a good feel for--ie intel hardware running Mikrotik. However, in terms of reliability, uptime, and scalability, (and I'd assume configuration options) Redback is the way to go. If you want something that is a little more flexible, go Cisco (but, you'd pay more for comparable performance). Price wise, Redback's are very attractive and very easy to get spare equipment for. Plus, you get _good_ hardware. Not throw CPU cycles at it and keep some extra boxes in the closet for when it chokes good; I mean swap out failed power supplies / Ethernet cards / CPUs without any downtime sort of good. Using PCs / Mikrotik is good when you can't get your hands on good gear at a reasonable cost. That's not the case in this situation... -Clint Ricker Kentnis Technologies ps...Please don't turn this into a flame war :). I realize people here love Mikrotik, and it has its purposes. However, in terms of field tested performance and reliability for PPPoE, Mikrotik is a PC based platform that has relatively few PPPoE deployments running under relatively light loads whereas Redback had a really large install base for high volume PPPoE termination and generally proved itself to be a very solid and scalable platform. On Feb 7, 2008 8:40 PM, Eric Muehleisen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Redback is untouchable in terms of PPPoE aggregation. Cisco is really the only other Router out there that is of Redback's caliber. We currently terminate close to 15,000 subscribers using a Redback SE 400. Attached is our current CPU usage. -Eric rabbtux rabbtux wrote: All I'm in the process of moving over to another upstream provider. I'm working with them closely to get service to my county PUD system that uses pppoe tunnels for virtually all end user connections. ( I know that I can get a vlan, but the cost is prohibitive at the moment) So, I'm their first beta tester in my area and they have this used Redback router. First there were problems that were to be solved with a firmware upgrade, now they have a hardware failure without a spare. I'm not familiar with this router at all, but discussed it with their sysadmin. Apparently the need is for something that can handle 2000 sessions and has full 100Mbps NICs and can support that speed. I'm not a pppoe expert, but would a decent PC, with 4/8GB of RAM and mikrotik SW installed handle something like this??? Butch? or other MT experts? Or is this requirement way out of the MT league? For my own reasons, I want to get them going, promptly! Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!! Marshall Rabbit Meadows Technology WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
