RE: [WISPA] salary WARNING: DON'T DO IT! THREAD ENDED

2006-12-19 Thread Rick Harnish
OK, I KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN HERE.  DON'T GO THERE GUYS.  START A NEW
SALARY THREAD IF YOU WANT.  PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS ONE.

Rick Harnish
President
OnlyInternet Broadband  Wireless, Inc.
260-827-2482
Founding Member of WISPA


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lonnie Nunweiler
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 2:32 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary

Mac, and Matt.  This is an easy question to answer.

You stop doing it when it stops being fun and becomes a job.  I built
five 100' towers this Summer.  

Lonnie

On 12/18/06, Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Gino,


   That's a question that Larsen and I have been hunting an answer to for a
 couple years. We both said we were going to sit back and collect some of
our
 initial investments back over a year ago. I know Larsen is still hanging
 gear in every town along the 3 States he borders (get 'em son) and also
 created one of the longest production wireless backhaul links (60+
miles)
 of anybody anywhere that I am aware of. I too have built 7 new towers in
the
 last few months and built out about a dozen new towns and gone to all
fiber.


 My point is this - - - it's a vicious circle! When is enough - enough? We
 get a new tower up and swear this is the last, but from that tower there
 is another community that is yet without internet connectivity and just
one
 more little hop will get them caught! It's a never ending story - - -
looks
 like we need a wireless anonymous group to help us break the cycle!!

  If you find the cure - - send Larsen and myself a double dose.


 Mac




 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini
 Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:51 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] salary

 The question I always ask myself is when to stop upgrading and expanding..

 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of George Rogato
 Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:08 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary

 Ditto, and we make enough profit to roll the profit back into our
 business in network upgrades, etc.

 If I stopped my upgrades and just collected money, I could lay someone
 off and make a very handsome roi.

 George

 John Scrivner wrote:
  Yes. We earn salary and profits. It is not as much as I would like but
  our company is profitable and has been for 9 years.
  Scriv
 
 
  Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
 
  Is this all such a big deal?  You guys actually have profits!?
 
  Brian
 
  John Scrivner wrote:
 
  I do not think any WISPs here really know the answer to this. What is
  needed is an answer from an accountant. If anyone on here is a CPA
  and can share what the rules are I would be glad to see them. I do
  not believe that simply drawing profits from a S corp WISP as opposed
  to taking a salary is tax evasion. In a S corp you pay taxes for
  profits same as you do for payroll. Where you might have a problem is
  with unemployment insurance, social security, workmans comp, etc.
  Those are based on payroll. Profits are not in the calculation.
  Essentially you are dodging those when you do not take a salary.
  Scriv
 
 
 
  Charles Wu wrote:
 
  snip
  Zero.  When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is
  an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a
  repayment of loan?
  The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed
  wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber.
  /snip
 
  B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business,
  is just a
  matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion...
 
  -Charles
 
  ---
  WiNOG Wireless Roadshows
  Coming to a City Near You
  http://www.winog.com
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
  Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
  Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary
 
 
 
  Tom DeReggi
  RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
  IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
 
 
  - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM
  Subject: [WISPA] salary
 
 
 
 
  Hi,
 
  Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)
 
  What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the
  percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...
 
  Travis
  Microserv
  --
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  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
 
 

 --
 George Rogato

 Welcome to WISPA

 www.wispa.org

 http

Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-19 Thread Travis Johnson

Peter,

Everyone in an S Corp has to get the same benefits - so if you take 
health care, so does every employee is incorrect. We have consulted 
with our accountant and our attorney on this exact matter. We have about 
30% of our employees with health insurance and 70% without.


Travis
Microserv

Peter R. wrote:

Sweat equity.
The Google boys' $1 salary.
Different levels of stock.
Investors.
}}} All of that is tax planning and corporate law.
An S Corp has limitations - both tax and structure.
There is a limit on who can be a stockholder and how many. (Like no 
foreign investment).

There can only be one kind of stock.
Everyone in an S Corp has to get the same benefits - so if you take 
health care, so does every employee.

Minutes and meetings are required annually.
Business plan is a necessity.
Also, losses for 4 years straight for an LLC and S Corp is a flag at 
the IRS. Losses indicate a hobby.

BTW, some states don't like the LLC (like California).

The 2 reasons to incorporate is to reduce tax liability and protect 
against personal liability (asset protection).


Asset protection and tax strategy are complicated. Many CPA's aren't 
equipped to do complex tax work. (They can only pump a 1040). Three 
good tax/asset strategists are Sandy Botkin, Lee Phillips, and Lisa Tom.


Make sure that your CPA is willing to go with you to the IRS to defend 
your accounting practices. (And I would get that it writing).


Regards,

Peter Radizeski
RAD-INFO, Inc.
(813) 963-5884






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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-19 Thread Matt Liotta

Travis Johnson wrote:
Everyone in an S Corp has to get the same benefits - so if you take 
health care, so does every employee is incorrect. We have consulted 
with our accountant and our attorney on this exact matter. We have 
about 30% of our employees with health insurance and 70% without.
I believe the correct statement is that an S Corp can only have a single 
class of shareholders. In that sense, all shareholders must be treated 
the same because they share a common class. Employees are not 
necessarily shareholders.


-Matt

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RE: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-19 Thread Rick Smith
as long as you OFFER it to them on a poster somewhere in the building.

At least, that's what NJ says...  that way it's opt in and there's no
discrimination

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 9:21 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary

Peter,

Everyone in an S Corp has to get the same benefits - so if you take health
care, so does every employee is incorrect. We have consulted with our
accountant and our attorney on this exact matter. We have about 30% of our
employees with health insurance and 70% without.

Travis
Microserv

Peter R. wrote:
 Sweat equity.
 The Google boys' $1 salary.
 Different levels of stock.
 Investors.
 }}} All of that is tax planning and corporate law.
 An S Corp has limitations - both tax and structure.
 There is a limit on who can be a stockholder and how many. (Like no 
 foreign investment).
 There can only be one kind of stock.
 Everyone in an S Corp has to get the same benefits - so if you take 
 health care, so does every employee.
 Minutes and meetings are required annually.
 Business plan is a necessity.
 Also, losses for 4 years straight for an LLC and S Corp is a flag at 
 the IRS. Losses indicate a hobby.
 BTW, some states don't like the LLC (like California).

 The 2 reasons to incorporate is to reduce tax liability and protect 
 against personal liability (asset protection).

 Asset protection and tax strategy are complicated. Many CPA's aren't 
 equipped to do complex tax work. (They can only pump a 1040). Three 
 good tax/asset strategists are Sandy Botkin, Lee Phillips, and Lisa Tom.

 Make sure that your CPA is willing to go with you to the IRS to defend 
 your accounting practices. (And I would get that it writing).

 Regards,

 Peter Radizeski
 RAD-INFO, Inc.
 (813) 963-5884





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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-19 Thread George Rogato

Rick Smith wrote:

as long as you OFFER it to them on a poster somewhere in the building.

At least, that's what NJ says...  that way it's opt in and there's no
discrimination



We are a C corp. Med plans, if offered, has to be available to all 
employees.
One of the benefits is the medical reimbursement tax benefits. It's nice 
to be able to give money to the employees, tax free.




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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-19 Thread Peter R.

Matt Liotta wrote:


Travis Johnson wrote:

Everyone in an S Corp has to get the same benefits - so if you take 
health care, so does every employee is incorrect. We have consulted 
with our accountant and our attorney on this exact matter. We have 
about 30% of our employees with health insurance and 70% without.


I believe the correct statement is that an S Corp can only have a 
single class of shareholders. In that sense, all shareholders must be 
treated the same because they share a common class. Employees are not 
necessarily shareholders.


-Matt


That's more accurate. I wasn't writing clearly last night.

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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-19 Thread Frank Muto
Thought I would throw this out about the GAO's report on company formations. 
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d06376.pdf


This may or not be relevant to the topic at hand, but may be parallel 
information to be aware of.


Cliff note summary from the report.

Why the study:
Companies form the basis of most commercial and entrepreneurial activities 
in market-based economies; however, shell companies, which have no 
operations, can be used for illicit purposes such as laundering money. Some 
states have been criticized for requiring minimal ownership information to 
form a U.S. company, raising concerns about the ease with which companies 
may be used for illicit purposes. In this report, GAO describes (1) the 
kinds of information each of the 50 states and the District of Columbia and 
third party agents collect on companies, (2) law enforcement concerns about 
the use of companies to hide illicit activity and how company information 
from states and agents helps or hinders investigations, and (3) implications 
of requiring states or agents to collect company ownership information.


What the GAO found:
Most states do not require ownership information at the time a company is 
formed, and while most states require corporations and limited liability 
companies (LLC) to file annual or biennial reports, few states require 
ownership information on these reports. With respect to the formation of 
LLCs, four states require some information on members, who are owners of the 
LLC. Some states require companies to list the names and addresses of 
directors, officers or managers on filings, but these persons may not own 
the company. Nearly all states screen company filings for statutorily 
required information, but none verify the identities of company officials. 
Third-party agents may submit formation documents to the state on a company's 
behalf, usually collecting only billing and statutorily required information 
for formations. These agents generally do not collect any information on 
owners of the companies they represent, and instances where agents told us 
they verified some information were rare.




Frank Muto
President/CEO
FSM Marketing Group, Inc








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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-18 Thread George Rogato
Ditto, and we make enough profit to roll the profit back into our 
business in network upgrades, etc.


If I stopped my upgrades and just collected money, I could lay someone 
off and make a very handsome roi.


George

John Scrivner wrote:
Yes. We earn salary and profits. It is not as much as I would like but 
our company is profitable and has been for 9 years.

Scriv


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


Is this all such a big deal?  You guys actually have profits!?

Brian

John Scrivner wrote:

I do not think any WISPs here really know the answer to this. What is 
needed is an answer from an accountant. If anyone on here is a CPA 
and can share what the rules are I would be glad to see them. I do 
not believe that simply drawing profits from a S corp WISP as opposed 
to taking a salary is tax evasion. In a S corp you pay taxes for 
profits same as you do for payroll. Where you might have a problem is 
with unemployment insurance, social security, workmans comp, etc. 
Those are based on payroll. Profits are not in the calculation. 
Essentially you are dodging those when you do not take a salary.

Scriv



Charles Wu wrote:


snip
Zero.  When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is 
an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a 
repayment of loan?
The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed 
wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber.

/snip

B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business, 
is just a

matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion...

-Charles

---
WiNOG Wireless Roadshows
Coming to a City Near You
http://www.winog.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary



Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM
Subject: [WISPA] salary


 


Hi,

Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the
percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...

Travis
Microserv
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RE: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-18 Thread Gino A. Villarini
The question I always ask myself is when to stop upgrading and expanding.. 

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of George Rogato
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:08 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary

Ditto, and we make enough profit to roll the profit back into our 
business in network upgrades, etc.

If I stopped my upgrades and just collected money, I could lay someone 
off and make a very handsome roi.

George

John Scrivner wrote:
 Yes. We earn salary and profits. It is not as much as I would like but 
 our company is profitable and has been for 9 years.
 Scriv
 
 
 Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
 
 Is this all such a big deal?  You guys actually have profits!?

 Brian

 John Scrivner wrote:

 I do not think any WISPs here really know the answer to this. What is 
 needed is an answer from an accountant. If anyone on here is a CPA 
 and can share what the rules are I would be glad to see them. I do 
 not believe that simply drawing profits from a S corp WISP as opposed 
 to taking a salary is tax evasion. In a S corp you pay taxes for 
 profits same as you do for payroll. Where you might have a problem is 
 with unemployment insurance, social security, workmans comp, etc. 
 Those are based on payroll. Profits are not in the calculation. 
 Essentially you are dodging those when you do not take a salary.
 Scriv



 Charles Wu wrote:

 snip
 Zero.  When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is 
 an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a 
 repayment of loan?
 The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed 
 wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber.
 /snip

 B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business, 
 is just a
 matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion...

 -Charles

 ---
 WiNOG Wireless Roadshows
 Coming to a City Near You
 http://www.winog.com


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
 Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary



 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] salary


  

 Hi,

 Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

 What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the
 percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...

 Travis
 Microserv
 -- 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe: 
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
   


  


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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-18 Thread George Rogato

Gino A. Villarini wrote:
The question I always ask myself is when to stop upgrading and expanding.. 



Last year at this time, I took from November till March 1st off. No work 
at the isp, just worked on my home, my kid's house, had fun with stocks 
and just enjoyed rest and relaxation :)
Was great to be able to take 4 months off  and have the rest of the 
people at the shop take care of business. So we didn't really spend any 
money on upgrades or retooling. We felt the effects of that on our cash 
flow.


There also was negative stuff because of it. Like overloaded ap's that 
disgruntled some subs.


George


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RE: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-18 Thread Brad Belton
That's an easy one; never.

Continue upgrading and if necessary push older gear further out on the
network.  

Best,

Brad


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:51 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] salary

The question I always ask myself is when to stop upgrading and expanding.. 

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of George Rogato
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:08 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary

Ditto, and we make enough profit to roll the profit back into our 
business in network upgrades, etc.

If I stopped my upgrades and just collected money, I could lay someone 
off and make a very handsome roi.

George

John Scrivner wrote:
 Yes. We earn salary and profits. It is not as much as I would like but 
 our company is profitable and has been for 9 years.
 Scriv
 
 
 Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
 
 Is this all such a big deal?  You guys actually have profits!?

 Brian

 John Scrivner wrote:

 I do not think any WISPs here really know the answer to this. What is 
 needed is an answer from an accountant. If anyone on here is a CPA 
 and can share what the rules are I would be glad to see them. I do 
 not believe that simply drawing profits from a S corp WISP as opposed 
 to taking a salary is tax evasion. In a S corp you pay taxes for 
 profits same as you do for payroll. Where you might have a problem is 
 with unemployment insurance, social security, workmans comp, etc. 
 Those are based on payroll. Profits are not in the calculation. 
 Essentially you are dodging those when you do not take a salary.
 Scriv



 Charles Wu wrote:

 snip
 Zero.  When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is 
 an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a 
 repayment of loan?
 The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed 
 wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber.
 /snip

 B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business, 
 is just a
 matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion...

 -Charles

 ---
 WiNOG Wireless Roadshows
 Coming to a City Near You
 http://www.winog.com


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
 Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary



 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] salary


  

 Hi,

 Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

 What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the
 percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...

 Travis
 Microserv
 -- 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe: 
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
   


  


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RE: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-18 Thread Mac Dearman
Gino,


  That's a question that Larsen and I have been hunting an answer to for a
couple years. We both said we were going to sit back and collect some of our
initial investments back over a year ago. I know Larsen is still hanging
gear in every town along the 3 States he borders (get 'em son) and also
created one of the longest production wireless backhaul links (60+ miles)
of anybody anywhere that I am aware of. I too have built 7 new towers in the
last few months and built out about a dozen new towns and gone to all fiber.


My point is this - - - it's a vicious circle! When is enough - enough? We
get a new tower up and swear this is the last, but from that tower there
is another community that is yet without internet connectivity and just one
more little hop will get them caught! It's a never ending story - - - looks
like we need a wireless anonymous group to help us break the cycle!!

 If you find the cure - - send Larsen and myself a double dose.


Mac 




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:51 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] salary

The question I always ask myself is when to stop upgrading and expanding.. 

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of George Rogato
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:08 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary

Ditto, and we make enough profit to roll the profit back into our 
business in network upgrades, etc.

If I stopped my upgrades and just collected money, I could lay someone 
off and make a very handsome roi.

George

John Scrivner wrote:
 Yes. We earn salary and profits. It is not as much as I would like but 
 our company is profitable and has been for 9 years.
 Scriv
 
 
 Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
 
 Is this all such a big deal?  You guys actually have profits!?

 Brian

 John Scrivner wrote:

 I do not think any WISPs here really know the answer to this. What is 
 needed is an answer from an accountant. If anyone on here is a CPA 
 and can share what the rules are I would be glad to see them. I do 
 not believe that simply drawing profits from a S corp WISP as opposed 
 to taking a salary is tax evasion. In a S corp you pay taxes for 
 profits same as you do for payroll. Where you might have a problem is 
 with unemployment insurance, social security, workmans comp, etc. 
 Those are based on payroll. Profits are not in the calculation. 
 Essentially you are dodging those when you do not take a salary.
 Scriv



 Charles Wu wrote:

 snip
 Zero.  When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is 
 an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a 
 repayment of loan?
 The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed 
 wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber.
 /snip

 B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business, 
 is just a
 matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion...

 -Charles

 ---
 WiNOG Wireless Roadshows
 Coming to a City Near You
 http://www.winog.com


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
 Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary



 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] salary


  

 Hi,

 Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

 What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the
 percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...

 Travis
 Microserv
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RE: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-18 Thread Gino A. Villarini
The never ending story ...

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mac Dearman
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 4:29 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] salary

Gino,


  That's a question that Larsen and I have been hunting an answer to for a
couple years. We both said we were going to sit back and collect some of our
initial investments back over a year ago. I know Larsen is still hanging
gear in every town along the 3 States he borders (get 'em son) and also
created one of the longest production wireless backhaul links (60+ miles)
of anybody anywhere that I am aware of. I too have built 7 new towers in the
last few months and built out about a dozen new towns and gone to all fiber.


My point is this - - - it's a vicious circle! When is enough - enough? We
get a new tower up and swear this is the last, but from that tower there
is another community that is yet without internet connectivity and just one
more little hop will get them caught! It's a never ending story - - - looks
like we need a wireless anonymous group to help us break the cycle!!

 If you find the cure - - send Larsen and myself a double dose.


Mac 




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:51 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] salary

The question I always ask myself is when to stop upgrading and expanding.. 

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of George Rogato
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:08 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary

Ditto, and we make enough profit to roll the profit back into our 
business in network upgrades, etc.

If I stopped my upgrades and just collected money, I could lay someone 
off and make a very handsome roi.

George

John Scrivner wrote:
 Yes. We earn salary and profits. It is not as much as I would like but 
 our company is profitable and has been for 9 years.
 Scriv
 
 
 Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
 
 Is this all such a big deal?  You guys actually have profits!?

 Brian

 John Scrivner wrote:

 I do not think any WISPs here really know the answer to this. What is 
 needed is an answer from an accountant. If anyone on here is a CPA 
 and can share what the rules are I would be glad to see them. I do 
 not believe that simply drawing profits from a S corp WISP as opposed 
 to taking a salary is tax evasion. In a S corp you pay taxes for 
 profits same as you do for payroll. Where you might have a problem is 
 with unemployment insurance, social security, workmans comp, etc. 
 Those are based on payroll. Profits are not in the calculation. 
 Essentially you are dodging those when you do not take a salary.
 Scriv



 Charles Wu wrote:

 snip
 Zero.  When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is 
 an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a 
 repayment of loan?
 The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed 
 wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber.
 /snip

 B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business, 
 is just a
 matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion...

 -Charles

 ---
 WiNOG Wireless Roadshows
 Coming to a City Near You
 http://www.winog.com


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
 Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary



 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] salary


  

 Hi,

 Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

 What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the
 percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...

 Travis
 Microserv
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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-18 Thread Matt Larsen - Lists

I cured myself - sort of.  :^)

I stopped building out new tower sites in June 2006, other than a few 
little repeaters that were pretty basic network extensions with no tower 
work involved.  A couple of months before that, I also stopped doing new 
leases for CPE equipment.  In August, I had one employee leave and we 
decided not to replace him.  Oh yeah, also bumped up my installation 
charges from $150 to $250 for new installs. 

End result - all new equipment is now bought out of cash flow.  Number 
of customer installs went down, but net customers continues to increase 
each month.Cash flow position has never been better, and gets better 
every month.  My original debt and lease payments start to come off the 
books in March of next year.  At this point, I can drive for two hours 
in every direction from my house before I get to the ends of my network, 
and I'm tired of driving so  I'm done expanding geographically.  I will 
continue to deploy picocells and fill in areas within the footprint 
where we don't have capacity.  I'm also planning to put in more 5ghz 
equipment and continue moving higher consumption customers over to that 
system.   There is some work there, but it is a far cry from the long 
hours and crazy buildouts of the last three years for me. 

Unfortunately, instead of taking time off to savor things, I have a 
consulting client with 400 towers in rural areas around the US that they 
want to light up with wireless Internet.  So I will be spending the next 
year putting my freed up time into that project.  That should cure my 
desire to keep building out on my own system. 

Kevin Suitor told me something at WISPCON III that I will never forget.  
He  said that this (meaning wireless broadband) was about a seven to ten 
year industry.  By the tenth year, it will all be commoditized and all 
of the original innovators will have sold out or moved into the 
corporate world.  In the meantime, it will be a really fun ride and lots 
of people will have amazing opportunities to make money and do neat 
things. 

My late father had a saying (common in these rural areas) Make hay 
while the sun is shining.   The sun is shining on this industry right 
now, and I'm going to do everything I can to make the most of the 
opportunity.  I feel that if I can play my cards right, I'll be retired 
by the time I'm 40.  I'll probably be ready to start on something else 
by the time I'm 41, but my goal is that work will be a choice and not a 
necessity by then and I can spend a lot of quality time with Monique and 
Diego.  Oh yeah, I'd also like to get together with Mac and Scriv and a 
bunch of my wireless buddies for beers and talking about the old days a 
couple times a year.  Hopefully on a beach somewhere.


A person can dream, right?

Matt Larsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Mac Dearman wrote:

Gino,


  That's a question that Larsen and I have been hunting an answer to for a
couple years. We both said we were going to sit back and collect some of our
initial investments back over a year ago. I know Larsen is still hanging
gear in every town along the 3 States he borders (get 'em son) and also
created one of the longest production wireless backhaul links (60+ miles)
of anybody anywhere that I am aware of. I too have built 7 new towers in the
last few months and built out about a dozen new towns and gone to all fiber.


My point is this - - - it's a vicious circle! When is enough - enough? We
get a new tower up and swear this is the last, but from that tower there
is another community that is yet without internet connectivity and just one
more little hop will get them caught! It's a never ending story - - - looks
like we need a wireless anonymous group to help us break the cycle!!

 If you find the cure - - send Larsen and myself a double dose.


Mac 





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:51 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] salary

The question I always ask myself is when to stop upgrading and expanding.. 

  


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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-18 Thread Tom DeReggi
 to invest money and take out money from their 
company.  If they do not plan accordingly ahead of time, you'll get screwed 
at tax time.  Its hard to plan though as its hard to predict whether goals 
will be met or not.  In my case, the outcome after 5 years was much 
different than I expected at day 1 business plan.  One of the advantages of 
using a professional third party accountant is that there is a recorded 
record of what financial/tax decissions were made and when, to conform to 
the needs of the IRS.


Lastly, I'll add. A big decission to make intially is whether to put money 
into your company as a loan or equity investment.  If in doubt, put it in as 
a loan. The reason is that you can write into the note, the terms of what 
happens to the loan if loan is the loan is defaulted on, for example 
converting to equity.  It is also feasible to secure the note with a 
warrant, allowing the lender to convert their loan to equity at the stock 
value at the time the loan was given, so that there is no legal problem with 
changing your mind years after the fact.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 10:19 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] salary


snip
Zero.  When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an
S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of
loan?
The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether they
have an equity position or not, and of what caliber.
/snip

B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business, is just a
matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion...

-Charles

---
WiNOG Wireless Roadshows
Coming to a City Near You
http://www.winog.com



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary



Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM
Subject: [WISPA] salary



Hi,

Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the
percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...

Travis
Microserv
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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-18 Thread Tom DeReggi
Thats were it gets tricky... Recouping value for the time you put into the 
company, at a later time.
If you were valuing your company preparing for aquisition, or setting share 
value of your stock to plan for taking on investors or partners, you may 
want to get credit for your time that you didn't take salary yet for.  If 
you are the ownly owner, its a mute point, you make your money back on the 
profit of the sale (the difference between invested amount and sale price).
But what if selling for Stock or not selling and just taking on new 
partners.  Do you just give yourself a higher percentage of the stock to 
account for it, or do you write up a loan to compensate for a reasonable 
repayment of unpaid back salaries? Or is there a way to take a corporate 
loss at a value equivellent to the unpaid salary? You got to be careful, 
because you don't want to have to pay back income tax on salary that you 
never received, because it was a salary that was documented as owed.  These 
are all tax questions that need addressing, at the appropriate time in ones 
business evolution.  My experience shows that once there are multiple 
investors (outside of family), they need to be addressed.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 1:34 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] salary



of course, if you own an Scorp, you HAVE to have annual meetings with
minutes and post annual reports to the state.  At least in NJ.

And, Tom's right.  Repayment of loans is a nice way to not pay tax.  NOW,
you can only do that if you've actually loaned the company things.  But if
you're a working partner, you're loaning time to the company which needs
to be repaid at a certain rate. (so long as you don't claim expenses like
mileage and other reimbursements - then you HAVE to take a salary.  can't
have the best of both worlds)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter R.
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 9:34 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary

Check with your CPA on that.
The IRS likes to see salary and other activities that represent that your
company really is a company and not a tax shelter so that you avoid the
sole proprietor tax schedule.
(It's called piercing the veil -- if you don't have minutes and annual
shareholder meetings and run it like a business, you lose the corporate
shield for tax purposes AND for liability as in civil litigation).

- Peter

Tom DeReggi wrote:


Zero.  When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is
an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a
repayment of loan?
The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether
they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-18 Thread Tom DeReggi
the IRS will treat the capital-gains as real income and will tax the CEO at 
the higher personal rate.


Maybe. But you have to have capitol gains to tax. Not all companies have 
gains, even when assessing a fair value to the stock. The reason is many 
investment activities fund activity that does not necessarilly have value 
that can be realized until the company is sold. For example research and 
development. For example, locking down a 20 year contract on a prime tower 
needs to be looked at as an asset for a sale activity, but as a liabilty for 
tax purposes. The value can't be proven until someone pays for the company 
to establish the value.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

- Original Message - 
From: Larry Yunker [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary


- Original Message - 
From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary



Check with your CPA on that.
The IRS likes to see salary and other activities that represent that your 
company really is a company and not a tax shelter so that you avoid the 
sole proprietor tax schedule.
(It's called piercing the veil -- if you don't have minutes and annual 
shareholder meetings and run it like a business, you lose the corporate 
shield for tax purposes AND for liability as in civil litigation).


I think you are on the mark here... according to what I picked up through 
my Business Planning coursework, the IRS has fairly consistently applied a 
reasonableness test to the salary of a CEO who is also a majority 
shareholder.  But reasonable is a fairly broad term.  Zero would not be 
reasonable in any case, but $10,000 or more might meet the reasonableness 
standard for companies with limited revenues.  On the other hand, if your 
company is turning $1MM in sales, you better be paying your full time CEO 
substantially more than $10,000 because the IRS will see right through 
that ploy.  In addition, if you try to pay the CEO through an incentive 
program (dividends or stock options) in lieu of salary, the IRS will treat 
the capital-gains as real income and will tax the CEO at the higher 
personal rate.  You have to provide a balance of salary and other 
non-salary incentives in order to get the maximum tax advantage.


- Larry




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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-18 Thread Tom DeReggi
I guess thats proof that I'm not the only moron in business that works for 
free, to maximize their net worth.
Now all I need to do is make my stock price worth 4 billion dollars like 
Googles :-)


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Frank Muto [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary



http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/31/technology/google/index.htm

Google leaders stick with $1 salary
According to the search engine's latest proxy filing, Eric Schmidt, Larry 
Page and Sergey Brin each turned down a raise.

By Paul R. La Monica, CNNMoney.com senior writer
March 31, 2006: 4:38 PM EST
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Google's co-founders and chief executive officer 
were offered a raise this year by the company's compensation committee, 
but the three turned it down and are sticking with their current annual 
salary of $1.


The search engine company made the disclosure in its proxy statement, 
which was filed Friday with the Securities and Exchange Commission. CEO 
Eric Schmidt and co-founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin first requested 
that their salary be cut to $1 in the second quarter of 2004, just before 
the company's initial public offering. Prior to that, Schmidt was making 
$250,000 a year while Page and Brin each earned a salary of $150,000.


In Friday's filing, Google (Research) said that due to our continued 
strong performance, the leadership by Eric, Sergey and Larry throughout 
the year, and below-market cash compensation levels, the Committee 
determined that an increase in cash compensation opportunities was 
merited, and we offered Eric, Sergey and Larry an increase in salary and 
bonus for 2006.


The company added that Schmidt, Page and Brin turned the offer down 
because their primary compensation continues to come from returns on 
their ownership stakes in Google. As significant stockholders, their 
personal wealth is tied directly to sustained stock price appreciation and 
performance, which provides direct alignment with stockholder interests.


According to the filing, Schmidt owns about 12.45 million shares of 
Google, which are worth about $4.86 billion based on the company's most 
recent stock price. Brin owns about 31.6 million Google shares and Page 
owns a little more than 32 million shares. So their stakes are each worth 
more than $12 billion based on current stock prices.




Frank Muto
President/CEO
FSM Marketing Group, Inc






















- Original Message - 
From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]




Check with your CPA on that.
The IRS likes to see salary and other activities that represent that 
your company really is a company and not a tax shelter so that you 
avoid the sole proprietor tax schedule.
(It's called piercing the veil -- if you don't have minutes and annual 
shareholder meetings and run it like a business, you lose the corporate 
shield for tax purposes AND for liability as in civil litigation).




- Original Message - 
From: Larry Yunker [EMAIL PROTECTED]


I think you are on the mark here... according to what I picked up through 
my Business Planning coursework, the IRS has fairly consistently applied 
a reasonableness test to the salary of a CEO who is also a majority 
shareholder.  But reasonable is a fairly broad term.  Zero would not be 
reasonable in any case, but $10,000 or more might meet the reasonableness 
standard for companies with limited revenues.  On the other hand, if your 
company is turning $1MM in sales, you better be paying your full time CEO 
substantially more than $10,000 because the IRS will see right through 
that ploy.  In addition, if you try to pay the CEO through an incentive 
program (dividends or stock options) in lieu of salary, the IRS will 
treat the capital-gains as real income and will tax the CEO at the higher 
personal rate.  You have to provide a balance of salary and other 
non-salary incentives in order to get the maximum tax advantage.


- Larry




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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-18 Thread Tom DeReggi

Peter,

That is good advice, and is relevent for this thread.
However, it does not apply to my case. No veil peircing going on here.

I think whats important is, the realization that its easy to have little 
details and formalities fall through the cracks in the world of limited 
time.
The sooner one gets things in order and documented, the less risk they take 
inadvertently piercing the corporate veil.

Trying to fix it after the fact, can be a pain.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary



Check with your CPA on that.
The IRS likes to see salary and other activities that represent that your 
company really is a company and not a tax shelter so that you avoid the 
sole proprietor tax schedule.
(It's called piercing the veil -- if you don't have minutes and annual 
shareholder meetings and run it like a business, you lose the corporate 
shield for tax purposes AND for liability as in civil litigation).


- Peter

Tom DeReggi wrote:

Zero.  When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an 
S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of 
loan?
The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether 
they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-18 Thread Peter R.

Sweat equity.
The Google boys' $1 salary.
Different levels of stock.
Investors.
}}} All of that is tax planning and corporate law.
An S Corp has limitations - both tax and structure.
There is a limit on who can be a stockholder and how many. (Like no 
foreign investment).

There can only be one kind of stock.
Everyone in an S Corp has to get the same benefits - so if you take 
health care, so does every employee.

Minutes and meetings are required annually.
Business plan is a necessity.
Also, losses for 4 years straight for an LLC and S Corp is a flag at the 
IRS. Losses indicate a hobby.

BTW, some states don't like the LLC (like California).

The 2 reasons to incorporate is to reduce tax liability and protect 
against personal liability (asset protection).


Asset protection and tax strategy are complicated. Many CPA's aren't 
equipped to do complex tax work. (They can only pump a 1040). Three good 
tax/asset strategists are Sandy Botkin, Lee Phillips, and Lisa Tom.


Make sure that your CPA is willing to go with you to the IRS to defend 
your accounting practices. (And I would get that it writing).


Regards,

Peter Radizeski
RAD-INFO, Inc.
(813) 963-5884





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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-18 Thread Lonnie Nunweiler

Mac, and Matt.  This is an easy question to answer.

You stop doing it when it stops being fun and becomes a job.  I built
five 100' towers this Summer.  It was fun especially the day I had
three erections.

Lonnie

On 12/18/06, Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Gino,


  That's a question that Larsen and I have been hunting an answer to for a
couple years. We both said we were going to sit back and collect some of our
initial investments back over a year ago. I know Larsen is still hanging
gear in every town along the 3 States he borders (get 'em son) and also
created one of the longest production wireless backhaul links (60+ miles)
of anybody anywhere that I am aware of. I too have built 7 new towers in the
last few months and built out about a dozen new towns and gone to all fiber.


My point is this - - - it's a vicious circle! When is enough - enough? We
get a new tower up and swear this is the last, but from that tower there
is another community that is yet without internet connectivity and just one
more little hop will get them caught! It's a never ending story - - - looks
like we need a wireless anonymous group to help us break the cycle!!

 If you find the cure - - send Larsen and myself a double dose.


Mac




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:51 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] salary

The question I always ask myself is when to stop upgrading and expanding..

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of George Rogato
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:08 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary

Ditto, and we make enough profit to roll the profit back into our
business in network upgrades, etc.

If I stopped my upgrades and just collected money, I could lay someone
off and make a very handsome roi.

George

John Scrivner wrote:
 Yes. We earn salary and profits. It is not as much as I would like but
 our company is profitable and has been for 9 years.
 Scriv


 Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

 Is this all such a big deal?  You guys actually have profits!?

 Brian

 John Scrivner wrote:

 I do not think any WISPs here really know the answer to this. What is
 needed is an answer from an accountant. If anyone on here is a CPA
 and can share what the rules are I would be glad to see them. I do
 not believe that simply drawing profits from a S corp WISP as opposed
 to taking a salary is tax evasion. In a S corp you pay taxes for
 profits same as you do for payroll. Where you might have a problem is
 with unemployment insurance, social security, workmans comp, etc.
 Those are based on payroll. Profits are not in the calculation.
 Essentially you are dodging those when you do not take a salary.
 Scriv



 Charles Wu wrote:

 snip
 Zero.  When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is
 an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a
 repayment of loan?
 The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed
 wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber.
 /snip

 B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business,
 is just a
 matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion...

 -Charles

 ---
 WiNOG Wireless Roadshows
 Coming to a City Near You
 http://www.winog.com


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
 Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary



 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] salary




 Hi,

 Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

 What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the
 percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...

 Travis
 Microserv
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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-17 Thread John Scrivner
I do not think any WISPs here really know the answer to this. What is 
needed is an answer from an accountant. If anyone on here is a CPA and 
can share what the rules are I would be glad to see them. I do not 
believe that simply drawing profits from a S corp WISP as opposed to 
taking a salary is tax evasion. In a S corp you pay taxes for profits 
same as you do for payroll. Where you might have a problem is with 
unemployment insurance, social security, workmans comp, etc. Those are 
based on payroll. Profits are not in the calculation. Essentially you 
are dodging those when you do not take a salary.

Scriv



Charles Wu wrote:


snip
Zero.  When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an 
S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of 
loan?
The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether they 
have an equity position or not, and of what caliber.

/snip

B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business, is just a
matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion...

-Charles

---
WiNOG Wireless Roadshows
Coming to a City Near You
http://www.winog.com 




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary



Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM
Subject: [WISPA] salary


 


Hi,

Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the
percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...

Travis
Microserv
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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-17 Thread Mark Koskenmaki

While I was digging around in incorporating advice books, I ran across some
commentary about this.   It seems that if you attempt to claim only income
from your stock (assuming your stock pays dividends to you ) which is taxed
less than wages or salary, the IRS will arbitrarily consider a specific
percentage of it to be salary for tax purposes to raise your tax
liability.   Now, this is focused on small corporations, not public ones,
where you as the majority stockholder, have the ability to choose how to
pay yourself.   I believe it applies to S corp and other small and
privately held corporations with working or actively engaged in the
business stockholders.

Doing so ( paying yourself only dividends) will result in things like audits
and a lot of scrutiny of your operation and personal tax issues from the
IRS, too.But since the founders of Google cannot set their own wages and
that is governed by a board of directors of a public corporation, they don't
face quite the same set of circumstances.

Frankly, as businessmen,  we should lobby for the abolition of the IRS and
income taxes.   While I doubt Uncle Sam's appetite for money will go away,
I've read that the  cost of compliance with IRS rules and regs is often
significant for businesses..., and as far as large corporations go, it's
usually MORE than the taxes they pay. That, and that the way we buy and sell
and conduct our business is influenced far too much by tax issues.
Something that gets the IRS out of our accountant's business and lets us
focus purely on business as business would be better.



+++
neofast.net - fast internet for North East Oregon and South East Washington
email me at mark at neofast dot net
541-969-8200
Direct commercial inquiries to purchasing at neofast dot net

- Original Message - 
From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary


 I do not think any WISPs here really know the answer to this. What is
 needed is an answer from an accountant. If anyone on here is a CPA and
 can share what the rules are I would be glad to see them. I do not
 believe that simply drawing profits from a S corp WISP as opposed to
 taking a salary is tax evasion. In a S corp you pay taxes for profits
 same as you do for payroll. Where you might have a problem is with
 unemployment insurance, social security, workmans comp, etc. Those are
 based on payroll. Profits are not in the calculation. Essentially you
 are dodging those when you do not take a salary.
 Scriv



 Charles Wu wrote:

 snip
 Zero.  When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an
 S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of
 loan?
 The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether
they
 have an equity position or not, and of what caliber.
 /snip
 
 B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business, is
just a
 matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion...
 
 -Charles
 
 ---
 WiNOG Wireless Roadshows
 Coming to a City Near You
 http://www.winog.com
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
 Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary
 
 
 
 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] salary
 
 
 
 
 Hi,
 
 Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)
 
 What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the
 percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...
 
 Travis
 Microserv
 --
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-17 Thread Peter R.

http://www.traderstatus.com/IRSsloppy.htm
about Case: Montagne v. Commissioner, 04-4137


 +_
 _


Jan. 2003

Every year or so there seems to be some hot issues the IRS is looking 
at. This year the amount of *salary* taken by shareholder-employees is 
on the IRS hot list. This issue is not new, but seems to be one of the 
items that will be looked at closer by the IRS in 2003. Not knowing how 
to play the game can lead to an audit. Even knowing how to play the game 
may not prevent an audit, but will go a long way to avoid additional 
taxes and penalties.


Background

The issue of double taxation has long been a concern of taxpayers. 
Dividends paid to shareholders of a closely held business are includible 
in the shareholder's gross income and are not tax deductible. This issue 
is relevant if your PR firm operates as a C corporation. The IRS loves 
dividends and tries to inflict this pain on C corporations either 
voluntarily or involuntarily. For many PR firms, operating as an *S* 
corporation or LLC is the medicine to cure the double taxation issue. 
Nevertheless, switching to an *S* corporation or LLC can be expensive 
and may not be the best business model for all PR firms. In this case, 
the treatment of choice is to clean out taxable income by paying a 
bonus to the shareholder-employee(*s*).


PR firms operating as a S corporation also have compensation issues. *S* 
corporations try to implement a tax-savings strategy of limiting 
compensation payments to shareholder-employees. Smaller compensation 
payments mean reduced liabilities for federal Social Security and 
Medicare taxes. Distributions passed through to shareholder-employees 
are not subject to the federal self-employment tax. Additionally, since 
*S* corporation taxable income passed through to shareholder-employees 
increases the tax basis of stock, distributions of corporate cash flow 
can usually be received income taxfree by shareholder employees.


Reasonable compensation

The IRS will be reviewing C corporation business tax returns to assess 
whether the compensation issue will reap tax dollars. Tax returns 
showing high officer compensation will be targeted. The IRS will attempt 
to argue that the *salary* paid was unreasonable for the services 
rendered and includes a dividend element. For example, assume a 
shareholder-employee's *salary* for 2002 is $800,000. The IRS could 
argue that a portion of the $800,000 is a disguised dividend. If 
$100,000 is considered a dividend, the shareholder-employee will still 
pay tax on $800,000, but the PR firm will lose the $100,000 deduction.


How much is reasonable?

How much can be paid as *salary* without raising the IRS' eyebrows? The 
position of the IRS is generally that reasonable compensation is equal 
to the amount paid by similar employers for similar services. The IRS 
has only to look at the various PR industry *salary* surveys to compile 
this information.


For some closely held firms, the eat what you can kill theory will be 
the answer. If you were a sole proprietor and earned $800,000, operating 
as a C corporation and paying an $800,000 *salary* will work no matter 
how much the IRS complains. Any *salary* paid should qualify as 
reasonable as long as it does not exceed net corporate profits from 
the services personally rendered.


Larger agencies

Let's say you are the CEO of a 20-person PR firm and earn $800,000. Will 
this *salary* be reasonable? It may very well be; however, what if the 
O'Dwyer or Council *salary* surveys indicate CEO's salaries for this 
size agency are $300,000? In this case, the IRS will argue that your 
*salary* was actually derived in part from the labor of other PR 
professionals. In other words, you are no longer rendering all the 
services yourself. The IRS, with the help of the Tax Court, is now 
holding much better cards. Your chances of winning are no longer as solid.


The new medicine

The case is not as easy to cure, but certainly an ounce of prevention 
can go a long way to making sure the disease does not spread. You need 
to understand the questions the IRS will ask in order to arrive at what 
they consider to be a reasonable *salary*. These include:


   1) Your duties;
   2) The amount of time required to perform those duties;
   3) Your ability and accomplishments;
   4) The complexity of the business;
   5) The gross and net income of the bus business;
   6) Your compensation history, and
   7) The firm's *salary* policy for all its employees.

There are a number of steps you can take to make it more likely that the 
compensation you earn will be considered reasonable and therefore 
deductible by your corporation. For example, you can:


   Use the minutes to contemporaneously document the reasons for the
   amount of compensation paid. For example, if compensation is being
   paid in the current year to make up for a year in which it was too
   low, be sure that the minutes reflect this.

   

Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-17 Thread Brian Rohrbacher

Is this all such a big deal?  You guys actually have profits!?

Brian

John Scrivner wrote:
I do not think any WISPs here really know the answer to this. What is 
needed is an answer from an accountant. If anyone on here is a CPA and 
can share what the rules are I would be glad to see them. I do not 
believe that simply drawing profits from a S corp WISP as opposed to 
taking a salary is tax evasion. In a S corp you pay taxes for profits 
same as you do for payroll. Where you might have a problem is with 
unemployment insurance, social security, workmans comp, etc. Those are 
based on payroll. Profits are not in the calculation. Essentially you 
are dodging those when you do not take a salary.

Scriv



Charles Wu wrote:


snip
Zero.  When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is 
an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a 
repayment of loan?
The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether 
they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber.

/snip

B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business, is 
just a

matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion...

-Charles

---
WiNOG Wireless Roadshows
Coming to a City Near You
http://www.winog.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary



Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM
Subject: [WISPA] salary


 


Hi,

Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the
percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...

Travis
Microserv
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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-17 Thread John Scrivner
Yes. We earn salary and profits. It is not as much as I would like but 
our company is profitable and has been for 9 years.

Scriv


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


Is this all such a big deal?  You guys actually have profits!?

Brian

John Scrivner wrote:

I do not think any WISPs here really know the answer to this. What is 
needed is an answer from an accountant. If anyone on here is a CPA 
and can share what the rules are I would be glad to see them. I do 
not believe that simply drawing profits from a S corp WISP as opposed 
to taking a salary is tax evasion. In a S corp you pay taxes for 
profits same as you do for payroll. Where you might have a problem is 
with unemployment insurance, social security, workmans comp, etc. 
Those are based on payroll. Profits are not in the calculation. 
Essentially you are dodging those when you do not take a salary.

Scriv



Charles Wu wrote:


snip
Zero.  When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is 
an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a 
repayment of loan?
The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed 
wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber.

/snip

B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business, 
is just a

matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion...

-Charles

---
WiNOG Wireless Roadshows
Coming to a City Near You
http://www.winog.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary



Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM
Subject: [WISPA] salary


 


Hi,

Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the
percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...

Travis
Microserv
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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-16 Thread George Rogato

That is a good message to send to stockholders.

I wonder how many shares Brin and Page sell a year.
Or if they are also playing the stock option game.

Schmidt has been selling, but didn't notice much for Brin or Page.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/it?s=GOOG

George



Frank Muto wrote:

http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/31/technology/google/index.htm

Google leaders stick with $1 salary
According to the search engine's latest proxy filing, Eric Schmidt, 
Larry Page and Sergey Brin each turned down a raise.

By Paul R. La Monica, CNNMoney.com senior writer
March 31, 2006: 4:38 PM EST
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Google's co-founders and chief executive 
officer were offered a raise this year by the company's compensation 
committee, but the three turned it down and are sticking with their 
current annual salary of $1.


The search engine company made the disclosure in its proxy statement, 
which was filed Friday with the Securities and Exchange Commission. CEO 
Eric Schmidt and co-founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin first requested 
that their salary be cut to $1 in the second quarter of 2004, just 
before the company's initial public offering. Prior to that, Schmidt was 
making $250,000 a year while Page and Brin each earned a salary of 
$150,000.


In Friday's filing, Google (Research) said that due to our continued 
strong performance, the leadership by Eric, Sergey and Larry throughout 
the year, and below-market cash compensation levels, the Committee 
determined that an increase in cash compensation opportunities was 
merited, and we offered Eric, Sergey and Larry an increase in salary and 
bonus for 2006.


The company added that Schmidt, Page and Brin turned the offer down 
because their primary compensation continues to come from returns on 
their ownership stakes in Google. As significant stockholders, their 
personal wealth is tied directly to sustained stock price appreciation 
and performance, which provides direct alignment with stockholder 
interests.


According to the filing, Schmidt owns about 12.45 million shares of 
Google, which are worth about $4.86 billion based on the company's most 
recent stock price. Brin owns about 31.6 million Google shares and Page 
owns a little more than 32 million shares. So their stakes are each 
worth more than $12 billion based on current stock prices.




Frank Muto
President/CEO
FSM Marketing Group, Inc























- Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Check with your CPA on that.
The IRS likes to see salary and other activities that represent that 
your company really is a company and not a tax shelter so that you 
avoid the sole proprietor tax schedule.
(It's called piercing the veil -- if you don't have minutes and 
annual shareholder meetings and run it like a business, you lose the 
corporate shield for tax purposes AND for liability as in civil 
litigation).




- Original Message - From: Larry Yunker 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


I think you are on the mark here... according to what I picked up 
through my Business Planning coursework, the IRS has fairly 
consistently applied a reasonableness test to the salary of a CEO who 
is also a majority shareholder.  But reasonable is a fairly broad 
term.  Zero would not be reasonable in any case, but $10,000 or more 
might meet the reasonableness standard for companies with limited 
revenues.  On the other hand, if your company is turning $1MM in 
sales, you better be paying your full time CEO substantially more than 
$10,000 because the IRS will see right through that ploy.  In 
addition, if you try to pay the CEO through an incentive program 
(dividends or stock options) in lieu of salary, the IRS will treat the 
capital-gains as real income and will tax the CEO at the higher 
personal rate.  You have to provide a balance of salary and other 
non-salary incentives in order to get the maximum tax advantage.


- Larry




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RE: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-16 Thread Rick Smith
of course, if you own an Scorp, you HAVE to have annual meetings with
minutes and post annual reports to the state.  At least in NJ.

And, Tom's right.  Repayment of loans is a nice way to not pay tax.  NOW,
you can only do that if you've actually loaned the company things.  But if
you're a working partner, you're loaning time to the company which needs
to be repaid at a certain rate. (so long as you don't claim expenses like
mileage and other reimbursements - then you HAVE to take a salary.  can't
have the best of both worlds)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter R.
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 9:34 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary

Check with your CPA on that.
The IRS likes to see salary and other activities that represent that your
company really is a company and not a tax shelter so that you avoid the
sole proprietor tax schedule.
(It's called piercing the veil -- if you don't have minutes and annual
shareholder meetings and run it like a business, you lose the corporate
shield for tax purposes AND for liability as in civil litigation).

- Peter

Tom DeReggi wrote:

 Zero.  When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is 
 an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a 
 repayment of loan?
 The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether 
 they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

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RE: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-16 Thread Charles Wu
snip
Zero.  When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an 
S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of 
loan?
The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether they 
have an equity position or not, and of what caliber.
/snip

B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business, is just a
matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion...

-Charles

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-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary



Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM
Subject: [WISPA] salary


 Hi,

 Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

 What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the
 percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...

 Travis
 Microserv
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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-15 Thread Tom DeReggi

Salaries are likely to vary by region.
In the DC Metro area, you aren't going to find a CEO class person willing to 
work for $40K (as a non-equity / non-investor person).
More like $100K +.  If I could find one for significantly less, I'd have one 
:-(   But this probably has more to do with cost of living in our area.
But I don't think this is a fair question.  Salary is proportional to the 
revenue that is controlled and managed by the CEO. If the company is bigger, 
they are likely to pay more.
In a startup, people work for future potential, or for the fun of teh 
experience.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:05 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] salary


I've been going through a bunch of sale / merger / buyout / funding 
meetings
lately, and that's about the salary they've all agreed on for an owner of 
a

wisp at around 500 users.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary

I just take what I need home.  It doesn't amount to much but the company
pays all gas, cell phone, auto repair, computer etc. bills.  So the number
isn't really fair.

We billed an insurance company for some work that I did after a storm, we
negotiated a $4000 per month rate for me as a typical paycheck for a 
person

with a company of this one's size.

laters,
marlon

- Original Message -
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:55 PM
Subject: [WISPA] salary



Hi,

Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the
percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...

Travis
Microserv
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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-15 Thread Peter R.

Check with your CPA on that.
The IRS likes to see salary and other activities that represent that 
your company really is a company and not a tax shelter so that you 
avoid the sole proprietor tax schedule.
(It's called piercing the veil -- if you don't have minutes and annual 
shareholder meetings and run it like a business, you lose the corporate 
shield for tax purposes AND for liability as in civil litigation).


- Peter

Tom DeReggi wrote:

Zero.  When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is 
an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a 
repayment of loan?
The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether 
they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-15 Thread Larry Yunker
- Original Message - 
From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary



Check with your CPA on that.
The IRS likes to see salary and other activities that represent that your 
company really is a company and not a tax shelter so that you avoid the 
sole proprietor tax schedule.
(It's called piercing the veil -- if you don't have minutes and annual 
shareholder meetings and run it like a business, you lose the corporate 
shield for tax purposes AND for liability as in civil litigation).


I think you are on the mark here... according to what I picked up through my 
Business Planning coursework, the IRS has fairly consistently applied a 
reasonableness test to the salary of a CEO who is also a majority 
shareholder.  But reasonable is a fairly broad term.  Zero would not be 
reasonable in any case, but $10,000 or more might meet the reasonableness 
standard for companies with limited revenues.  On the other hand, if your 
company is turning $1MM in sales, you better be paying your full time CEO 
substantially more than $10,000 because the IRS will see right through that 
ploy.  In addition, if you try to pay the CEO through an incentive program 
(dividends or stock options) in lieu of salary, the IRS will treat the 
capital-gains as real income and will tax the CEO at the higher personal 
rate.  You have to provide a balance of salary and other non-salary 
incentives in order to get the maximum tax advantage.


- Larry




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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-15 Thread Frank Muto

http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/31/technology/google/index.htm

Google leaders stick with $1 salary
According to the search engine's latest proxy filing, Eric Schmidt, Larry 
Page and Sergey Brin each turned down a raise.

By Paul R. La Monica, CNNMoney.com senior writer
March 31, 2006: 4:38 PM EST
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Google's co-founders and chief executive officer 
were offered a raise this year by the company's compensation committee, but 
the three turned it down and are sticking with their current annual salary 
of $1.


The search engine company made the disclosure in its proxy statement, which 
was filed Friday with the Securities and Exchange Commission. CEO Eric 
Schmidt and co-founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin first requested that 
their salary be cut to $1 in the second quarter of 2004, just before the 
company's initial public offering. Prior to that, Schmidt was making 
$250,000 a year while Page and Brin each earned a salary of $150,000.


In Friday's filing, Google (Research) said that due to our continued strong 
performance, the leadership by Eric, Sergey and Larry throughout the year, 
and below-market cash compensation levels, the Committee determined that an 
increase in cash compensation opportunities was merited, and we offered 
Eric, Sergey and Larry an increase in salary and bonus for 2006.


The company added that Schmidt, Page and Brin turned the offer down because 
their primary compensation continues to come from returns on their 
ownership stakes in Google. As significant stockholders, their personal 
wealth is tied directly to sustained stock price appreciation and 
performance, which provides direct alignment with stockholder interests.


According to the filing, Schmidt owns about 12.45 million shares of Google, 
which are worth about $4.86 billion based on the company's most recent stock 
price. Brin owns about 31.6 million Google shares and Page owns a little 
more than 32 million shares. So their stakes are each worth more than $12 
billion based on current stock prices.




Frank Muto
President/CEO
FSM Marketing Group, Inc






















- Original Message - 
From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]




Check with your CPA on that.
The IRS likes to see salary and other activities that represent that your 
company really is a company and not a tax shelter so that you avoid the 
sole proprietor tax schedule.
(It's called piercing the veil -- if you don't have minutes and annual 
shareholder meetings and run it like a business, you lose the corporate 
shield for tax purposes AND for liability as in civil litigation).




- Original Message - 
From: Larry Yunker [EMAIL PROTECTED]


I think you are on the mark here... according to what I picked up through 
my Business Planning coursework, the IRS has fairly consistently applied a 
reasonableness test to the salary of a CEO who is also a majority 
shareholder.  But reasonable is a fairly broad term.  Zero would not be 
reasonable in any case, but $10,000 or more might meet the reasonableness 
standard for companies with limited revenues.  On the other hand, if your 
company is turning $1MM in sales, you better be paying your full time CEO 
substantially more than $10,000 because the IRS will see right through 
that ploy.  In addition, if you try to pay the CEO through an incentive 
program (dividends or stock options) in lieu of salary, the IRS will treat 
the capital-gains as real income and will tax the CEO at the higher 
personal rate.  You have to provide a balance of salary and other 
non-salary incentives in order to get the maximum tax advantage.


- Larry




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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-15 Thread Peter R.

Google is a C Corp, not an LLC or an S Corp.
Big difference.

Frank Muto wrote:


http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/31/technology/google/index.htm

Google leaders stick with $1 salary
According to the search engine's latest proxy filing, Eric Schmidt, 
Larry Page and Sergey Brin each turned down a raise.

By Paul R. La Monica, CNNMoney.com senior writer
March 31, 2006: 4:38 PM EST
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Google's co-founders and chief executive 
officer were offered a raise this year by the company's compensation 
committee, but the three turned it down and are sticking with their 
current annual salary of $1.


The search engine company made the disclosure in its proxy statement, 
which was filed Friday with the Securities and Exchange Commission. 
CEO Eric Schmidt and co-founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin first 
requested that their salary be cut to $1 in the second quarter of 
2004, just before the company's initial public offering. Prior to 
that, Schmidt was making $250,000 a year while Page and Brin each 
earned a salary of $150,000.


In Friday's filing, Google (Research) said that due to our continued 
strong performance, the leadership by Eric, Sergey and Larry 
throughout the year, and below-market cash compensation levels, the 
Committee determined that an increase in cash compensation 
opportunities was merited, and we offered Eric, Sergey and Larry an 
increase in salary and bonus for 2006.


The company added that Schmidt, Page and Brin turned the offer down 
because their primary compensation continues to come from returns on 
their ownership stakes in Google. As significant stockholders, their 
personal wealth is tied directly to sustained stock price appreciation 
and performance, which provides direct alignment with stockholder 
interests.


According to the filing, Schmidt owns about 12.45 million shares of 
Google, which are worth about $4.86 billion based on the company's 
most recent stock price. Brin owns about 31.6 million Google shares 
and Page owns a little more than 32 million shares. So their stakes 
are each worth more than $12 billion based on current stock prices.




Frank Muto
President/CEO
FSM Marketing Group, Inc


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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-15 Thread Travis Johnson

Google is a PUBLICLY TRADED C Corp... even a bigger difference. :)

Travis


Peter R. wrote:

Google is a C Corp, not an LLC or an S Corp.
Big difference.

Frank Muto wrote:


http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/31/technology/google/index.htm

Google leaders stick with $1 salary
According to the search engine's latest proxy filing, Eric Schmidt, 
Larry Page and Sergey Brin each turned down a raise.

By Paul R. La Monica, CNNMoney.com senior writer
March 31, 2006: 4:38 PM EST
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Google's co-founders and chief executive 
officer were offered a raise this year by the company's compensation 
committee, but the three turned it down and are sticking with their 
current annual salary of $1.


The search engine company made the disclosure in its proxy statement, 
which was filed Friday with the Securities and Exchange Commission. 
CEO Eric Schmidt and co-founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin first 
requested that their salary be cut to $1 in the second quarter of 
2004, just before the company's initial public offering. Prior to 
that, Schmidt was making $250,000 a year while Page and Brin each 
earned a salary of $150,000.


In Friday's filing, Google (Research) said that due to our continued 
strong performance, the leadership by Eric, Sergey and Larry 
throughout the year, and below-market cash compensation levels, the 
Committee determined that an increase in cash compensation 
opportunities was merited, and we offered Eric, Sergey and Larry an 
increase in salary and bonus for 2006.


The company added that Schmidt, Page and Brin turned the offer down 
because their primary compensation continues to come from returns on 
their ownership stakes in Google. As significant stockholders, their 
personal wealth is tied directly to sustained stock price 
appreciation and performance, which provides direct alignment with 
stockholder interests.


According to the filing, Schmidt owns about 12.45 million shares of 
Google, which are worth about $4.86 billion based on the company's 
most recent stock price. Brin owns about 31.6 million Google shares 
and Page owns a little more than 32 million shares. So their stakes 
are each worth more than $12 billion based on current stock prices.




Frank Muto
President/CEO
FSM Marketing Group, Inc



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RE: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-14 Thread CHUCK PROFITO
Salary? I think I remember that word...CRS you know.  Equals  leftovers,
right Tim?  
Rock soup again :-)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:56 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] salary


Hi,

Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the 
percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...

Travis
Microserv
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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-14 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
I just take what I need home.  It doesn't amount to much but the company 
pays all gas, cell phone, auto repair, computer etc. bills.  So the number 
isn't really fair.


We billed an insurance company for some work that I did after a storm, we 
negotiated a $4000 per month rate for me as a typical paycheck for a person 
with a company of this one's size.


laters,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:55 PM
Subject: [WISPA] salary



Hi,

Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the 
percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...


Travis
Microserv
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RE: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-14 Thread Rick Smith
I've been going through a bunch of sale / merger / buyout / funding meetings
lately, and that's about the salary they've all agreed on for an owner of a
wisp at around 500 users.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary

I just take what I need home.  It doesn't amount to much but the company
pays all gas, cell phone, auto repair, computer etc. bills.  So the number
isn't really fair.

We billed an insurance company for some work that I did after a storm, we
negotiated a $4000 per month rate for me as a typical paycheck for a person
with a company of this one's size.

laters,
marlon

- Original Message -
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:55 PM
Subject: [WISPA] salary


 Hi,

 Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

 What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the 
 percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...

 Travis
 Microserv
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 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

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RE: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-14 Thread Gino A. Villarini
Possibly if your arpu is $40, if arpu is around $150, compensation should be
about $100k year or so.  That's my experience

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rick Smith
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 12:05 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] salary

I've been going through a bunch of sale / merger / buyout / funding meetings
lately, and that's about the salary they've all agreed on for an owner of a
wisp at around 500 users.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary

I just take what I need home.  It doesn't amount to much but the company
pays all gas, cell phone, auto repair, computer etc. bills.  So the number
isn't really fair.

We billed an insurance company for some work that I did after a storm, we
negotiated a $4000 per month rate for me as a typical paycheck for a person
with a company of this one's size.

laters,
marlon

- Original Message -
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:55 PM
Subject: [WISPA] salary


 Hi,

 Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

 What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the 
 percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...

 Travis
 Microserv
 -- 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-14 Thread Larry Yunker
IF your company is making money, the salary that you pay the CEO (assuming 
that you ARE the CEO) is really highly dependent on tax liability.


If you have your company set up as a pass-through tax entity such as a LLC, 
S Corporation, or god forbid a plain-jane partnership, then you are getting 
taxed directly on the organizations revenues.  You need to make sure that 
you pay yourself a living wage + enough to cover your tax liability on the 
organization's revenue.  Aside from that, you are just as well off if you 
leave the money in the company as if you took the money out of the company. 
If you leave money in the company, you still own that money as equity in 
the company as retained earnings.


On the other hand, if you are set up a C-corp, there are entirely different 
considerations as how to determine your salary.  We all know that a C-corp 
is a non-pass-through tax entity.  Therefore, any net profit before taxes 
are taxed at the company's tax rate and then taxed again if the company 
makes a distribution to you as a stockholder in the form of a dividend. 
Your first instinct would be to give yourself a big salary in order to 
minimize the tax burden of the company.  However, you might find that the 
company has a lower tax rate than you do personally.  Therefore, there are 
circumstances, especially with small closely-held corporations where it 
makes most sense to grant yourself a small salary and then give yourself a 
big dividend to take advantage of the 15% capital gains tax-rate.  There are 
also some methods for granting yourself stock options that yield an expense 
for the company and at the same time provide a capital gains distribution to 
you as an employee.


The bottom line is that the number you pay your CEO should be determined not 
only by what your company can currently bear but also upon what will protect 
your equity from the taxman.  What other company's pay their CEO shouldn't 
really figure into the equation.  It's more important that you figure out 
how to retain your equity/earnings and at the same time provide sufficient 
funding for the growth and prosperity of your business.


Larry Yunker
Network Consultant
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 7:55 PM
Subject: [WISPA] salary



Hi,

Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the 
percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...


Travis
Microserv
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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-14 Thread Tom DeReggi
Zero.  When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an 
S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of 
loan?
The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether they 
have an equity position or not, and of what caliber.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM
Subject: [WISPA] salary



Hi,

Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the 
percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...


Travis
Microserv
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