Re: [WISPA] Survey Comments: 2. Do you see value in raising WISPA feesto allow for more efficient lobbying efforts with the FCC andother Government Entities
The narrower they are the higher the power can be. It's a complicated formula that I never figured out. marlon - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 11:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Survey Comments: 2. Do you see value in raising WISPA feesto allow for more efficient lobbying efforts with the FCC andother Government Entities Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Got the FCC to agree that a routed group of individual AP's could fall under the same higher powered 2.4ghz rules as active antennas. Too bad no one built and certified a system of 8 or 10 ap's with very narrow sectors (how about 24db grids :-). Did you guys know that we CAN use more than 4 watts at the AP's if the systems are designed right and are certified as such? WISPA got that interpretation of the rules done.I remember reading about this, but never managed to find out how narrow the beams would have to be. If 60-90 deg would work, there are MANY good ways to do it -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Survey Comments: 2. Do you see value in raising WISPA feesto allow for more efficient lobbying efforts with the FCC andother Government Entities
Comments inline: 9. I'm conflicted on this. I'm not sure WISPA is having any real effect, but I'm not sure they are not. [We believe we had a major impact in the TV Whitespaces NPRM and outcome, it has taught us the importance of strong legal counsel in Washington DC and it has assisted us in talking to the right people.] I know I'll miss some things here, but lets see what I can come up with off the top of my head: CALEA standard. WISPA has the ONLY free to everyone standard that's made it through the whole process. We worked directly with the FBI on our standard. There are standards out there that the FBI is said to be fighting against. Form 477 FAQ #8. That one is the direct result of a group of WISPs that met with the Form 477 folks to help clarify exactly what WISPs are expeted to do and how we're to do it. Sure saved me a LOT of time and heartache. Clarification of the new updated FCC rules after the last major upgrade to them. Got the FCC to agree that a routed group of individual AP's could fall under the same higher powered 2.4ghz rules as active antennas. Too bad no one built and certified a system of 8 or 10 ap's with very narrow sectors (how about 24db grids :-). Did you guys know that we CAN use more than 4 watts at the AP's if the systems are designed right and are certified as such? WISPA got that interpretation of the rules done. Worked the Whitespaces issue for 4 years. It tried to die a natural death several times. We kept after it every chance we got. Done multiple training sessions for FCC staff. (we teach them what really goes on out in the world.) 10. The only way we are going to be heard is if we have a full time presence just like the big boys. [In process since July!] Not true. We're heard every time we open our mouths. They (the FCC) LOVE to hear from us. We are the guys in the trenches. We're the ones with the bloody knuckles. They know that. I've never been turned down for a meeting at the FCC, I've met with all of the commissioners but one. I've had meetings with the chairman's office. In fact I met with Martin back when he was still a commissioner. Got the pictures to prove it :-). None of this is because of me or anyone I know. It's because of who we are within the internet industry. 11. I feel the dues should be based on a WISP's subscriber count. Vendor dues should be based on a member's annual revenues or some other metric. [That is one of the options we are looking at.] I said that since before we even were WISPA. 12. Can't agree to raising the price when I don't know the current price. [$250 annually] 13. No, but I would pay more for stuff that I can reach out and touch. Buying groups, documents, passworded site with super vault filled with treasures. [We are currently developing a members only section on the website where these documents can be stored. We will also be developing further member discounts with our vendors over the next few months. There are already some discounts listed on the http://www.wispa.org/?page_id=256 Vendor Discounts page on the website.] Don't forget what WISPA's mission is. Rick, is the mission statement right at the top of the home page yet? 14. I would rather see income rise because of membership increases before raising the dues. [I agree, however, after 4 years and some major current lobbying efforts and a need for an Executive director or staff, we have reached a level where we need to reassess our dues structure to achieve all the desires of our members] 15. only slightly, since it tends to drive out the smaller startups! [We are very aware of this, it is always at the forefront of our thought processes] 16. I think they should remain the same. 17. Bring forth products and services, then take a cut of them to fund lobbying efforts. [This is also something we are considering] 18. I would need to see more specific examples of how additional funding is needed to achieve tangible goals. [See above, if this doesn't answer your questions, email me offlist] 19. actually this should be unknown or N/A as I am not fully aware of WISPAs lobbying efforts. [See above] 20. I think that indepth lobbying that can be effective is critical. WISPA has shown massive progress and influence on the process and anything supporting those continued efforts would be well received. Can I just donate money toward lobbying and not join? [Thank you for your encouragement. Of course, email me offlist and we can take care of your request but why would you not join?] I agree with Rick here. The money (more importantly the time) always helps. But part of what adds weight to our statements is numbers. The more members we have the more people we can speak for
Re: [WISPA] Survey Comments: 2. Do you see value in raising WISPA feesto allow for more efficient lobbying efforts with the FCC andother Government Entities
Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Got the FCC to agree that a routed group of individual AP's could fall under the same higher powered 2.4ghz rules as active antennas. Too bad no one built and certified a system of 8 or 10 ap's with very narrow sectors (how about 24db grids :-). Did you guys know that we CAN use more than 4 watts at the AP's if the systems are designed right and are certified as such? WISPA got that interpretation of the rules done. I remember reading about this, but never managed to find out how narrow the beams would have to be. If 60-90 deg would work, there are MANY good ways to do it WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] survey
All- I don't quite get what the major change we are seeing here is. Patrick was an exec at one major wimax and pre wimax company ( alvarion ) and now he works for Aperto, another major wimax and pre wimax company. And as much as some people may not like to debate, I personally love a good solid debate where people trade facts and argue their positions. Ultimately that leads to education of everyone who participates. I look forward to many more debates on here. :) - Jeff Aperto 206.455.4950 mobile -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] survey Yeah, amazing how stuff changes... I once recall having a list monopolizing debate with Patrick that went on to the point of rousing a mob... Patrick arguing that residential wireless could not be done, and me arguing that without residential, wireless was doomed. I wonder if he remembers... Just FYI, Patrick. You were so determined that residential wireless could not be done that I went out and did it. Just wanted you to know that :) insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] survey After, God it seems like forever at least since I started looking into being a WISP Patrick was with Alvarion... now to see Aperto it's so weird. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:48 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WISPA] survey Obviously I am commenting late, so sorry for that, but what jumps out for me is that this shows that list participation is weighted towards Canopy users. Canopy users have built a vibrant community of operators, especially under the august stewardship and commitment of Chuck from the operator side. That said, I suspect of non-802.11 and non-WiMAX type networks, Motorola enjoys a MAJORITY share. For sure though I can tell you as an ex-Alvarion person, that most Alvarion users are not active list participants, so the count of subscribers and concurrent single digit percentages are meaningless. In other words, this survey is not a reflection of reality of the market, only the reality of this set of lists. Cheers, Patrick Aperto 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:47 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] survey Brand # Subs % By Subs Redline 286 0.56% Alvarion 938 1.83% Ubiquity 960 1.88% Canopy 32933 64.39% Other 4345 8.49% Trango 8217 16.06% MT 3471 6.79% Total 51150 100.00% Responses 47 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe
Re: [WISPA] survey
Well, I don't remember ever saying residential wireless cannot be done, especially since I've had many customers doing it for years. I have frequently said that many come in to the business saying they want to do a 100% residential play, to which I generally commented that a mix was better and healthier, with commercial users tapping capacity in the day and the networking weighting towards residential at night. That was an efficient way to leverage your network's capacity. One thing I have absolutely said is that business connections were the low hanging fruit. Cheers, Patrick -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of rea...@muddyfrogwater.us Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] survey Yeah, amazing how stuff changes... I once recall having a list monopolizing debate with Patrick that went on to the point of rousing a mob... Patrick arguing that residential wireless could not be done, and me arguing that without residential, wireless was doomed. I wonder if he remembers... Just FYI, Patrick. You were so determined that residential wireless could not be done that I went out and did it. Just wanted you to know that :) insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] survey After, God it seems like forever at least since I started looking into being a WISP Patrick was with Alvarion... now to see Aperto it's so weird. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:48 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: motor...@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] survey Obviously I am commenting late, so sorry for that, but what jumps out for me is that this shows that list participation is weighted towards Canopy users. Canopy users have built a vibrant community of operators, especially under the august stewardship and commitment of Chuck from the operator side. That said, I suspect of non-802.11 and non-WiMAX type networks, Motorola enjoys a MAJORITY share. For sure though I can tell you as an ex-Alvarion person, that most Alvarion users are not active list participants, so the count of subscribers and concurrent single digit percentages are meaningless. In other words, this survey is not a reflection of reality of the market, only the reality of this set of lists. Cheers, Patrick Aperto 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:47 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: motor...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] survey Brand # Subs % By Subs Redline 286 0.56% Alvarion 938 1.83% Ubiquity 960 1.88% Canopy 32933 64.39% Other 4345 8.49% Trango 8217 16.06% MT 3471 6.79% Total 51150 100.00% Responses 47 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] survey
That would have been all the back in ... 02? And on the ISP-Wireless lists, before they got crazy paranoid about competition or whatever it was that caused them to start banning people left and right way back whenever. I haven't been back there since, no idea how those lists go today. Anyway, you said that residential as a primary focus was not financially feasible, and most of that was based on the fact that CPE was not much under 1K at the time. This was before the advent of Atheros as a huge player in the chipset market and wifi based stuff was mostly done with Lucent stuff... I said I needed a 200 dollar CPE. Today I'm a little over that, it's FCC compliant, and the flexibility of the platform I started out with has been, well, great. Ahh, the good old days of wandering in a wilderness of unexplored possibilities. :) insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] survey Well, I don't remember ever saying residential wireless cannot be done, especially since I've had many customers doing it for years. I have frequently said that many come in to the business saying they want to do a 100% residential play, to which I generally commented that a mix was better and healthier, with commercial users tapping capacity in the day and the networking weighting towards residential at night. That was an efficient way to leverage your network's capacity. One thing I have absolutely said is that business connections were the low hanging fruit. Cheers, Patrick -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of rea...@muddyfrogwater.us Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] survey Yeah, amazing how stuff changes... I once recall having a list monopolizing debate with Patrick that went on to the point of rousing a mob... Patrick arguing that residential wireless could not be done, and me arguing that without residential, wireless was doomed. I wonder if he remembers... Just FYI, Patrick. You were so determined that residential wireless could not be done that I went out and did it. Just wanted you to know that :) insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] survey After, God it seems like forever at least since I started looking into being a WISP Patrick was with Alvarion... now to see Aperto it's so weird. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:48 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: motor...@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] survey Obviously I am commenting late, so sorry for that, but what jumps out for me is that this shows that list participation is weighted towards Canopy users. Canopy users have built a vibrant community of operators, especially under the august stewardship and commitment of Chuck from the operator side. That said, I suspect of non-802.11 and non-WiMAX type networks, Motorola enjoys a MAJORITY share. For sure though I can tell you as an ex-Alvarion person, that most Alvarion users are not active list participants, so the count of subscribers and concurrent single digit percentages are meaningless. In other words, this survey is not a reflection of reality of the market, only the reality of this set of lists. Cheers, Patrick Aperto 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:47 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: motor...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] survey Brand # Subs % By Subs Redline 286 0.56% Alvarion 938 1.83% Ubiquity 960 1.88% Canopy 32933 64.39% Other 4345 8.49% Trango 8217 16.06% MT 3471 6.79% Total 51150 100.00% Responses 47 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] survey says
I'd think that is fairly close. Heck, even out here I'm over 600 now! marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] survey says Interesting to note that by these numbers there is an average of just over 1000 subscribers per WISP. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 8:37 PM To: wireless@wispa.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] survey says Brand # Subs % By Subs Redline 286 0.30% Alvarion 4027 4.24% Ubiquity 1778 1.87% Canopy 41617 43.85% Other 8316 8.76% Trango 11352 11.96% Tranzeo 12779 13.47% MT 14746 15.54% Total 94901 100.00% Responses 93 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] survey
After, God it seems like forever at least since I started looking into being a WISP Patrick was with Alvarion... now to see Aperto it's so weird. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:48 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WISPA] survey Obviously I am commenting late, so sorry for that, but what jumps out for me is that this shows that list participation is weighted towards Canopy users. Canopy users have built a vibrant community of operators, especially under the august stewardship and commitment of Chuck from the operator side. That said, I suspect of non-802.11 and non-WiMAX type networks, Motorola enjoys a MAJORITY share. For sure though I can tell you as an ex-Alvarion person, that most Alvarion users are not active list participants, so the count of subscribers and concurrent single digit percentages are meaningless. In other words, this survey is not a reflection of reality of the market, only the reality of this set of lists. Cheers, Patrick Aperto 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:47 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] survey Brand # Subs % By Subs Redline 286 0.56% Alvarion 938 1.83% Ubiquity 960 1.88% Canopy 32933 64.39% Other 4345 8.49% Trango 8217 16.06% MT 3471 6.79% Total 51150 100.00% Responses 47 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] survey says
Interesting to note that by these numbers there is an average of just over 1000 subscribers per WISP. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 8:37 PM To: wireless@wispa.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] survey says Brand # Subs % By Subs Redline 286 0.30% Alvarion 4027 4.24% Ubiquity 1778 1.87% Canopy 41617 43.85% Other 8316 8.76% Trango 11352 11.96% Tranzeo 12779 13.47% MT 14746 15.54% Total 94901 100.00% Responses 93 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
