Re: [WISPA] tv white spaces update and a question for you guys

2006-09-13 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181



I think it should use carrier 
sensing.

Forget that gps anything crap.

Marlon(509) 
982-2181 
Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
(Vonage) 
Consulting services42846865 
(icq) 
And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Ron 
  Wallace 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 1:24 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] tv white spaces 
  update and a question for you guys
  
  Here is the relevant paragraph.
  
  "The Notice proposed to require that fixed 
  unlicensed devices incorporate a geo-location method such as GPS or be 
  professionally installed, and that they access a database to identify vacant 
  channels at their location. It proposed to require that portable 
  unlicensed devices operate only when they receive a control signal from a 
  source such as an FM or TV station that identifies the vacant TV channels in 
  that particular area. The Commission also sought comment on the use of 
  spectrum sensing to identify vacant TV channels, but did not propose any 
  specific technical requirements for devices that use spectrum 
  sensing."
  The GPS requirement does not seem to present a 
  problem, for Fixed Wireless, many GPs devices cna be incorporated into any 
  PC. As for a data base that exists and is available from Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] , 
  or could be accomodated to ID vacant channels at a given location. If 
  this is all that is required the information is already 
available.
  
  For "Portable Unlicensed devices" the 
  requirement is more difficult, I admit. But to runa test for fixed 
  unlicensed devices this should be much more straight forward.
  
  What do you guys think?
  Ron Wallace Hahnron, 
  Inc. 220 S. Jackson Dt. Addison, MI 49220 Phone: (517)547-8410 
  Mobile: (517)605-4542 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]-Original Message-From: 
  John Scrivner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 
  2006 01:17 PMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: Re: [WISPA] tv 
  white spaces update and a question for you guysI would think a 
  better approach would be to work with Intel or another company who is 
  already building prototypes to get a test system built and have WISPs 
  become the operations portion of a test for this type of technology. A 
  converted WiFi unit will not have any of the existing GPS or sniffing 
  capabilities required in the NPRM. If we are going to become part of 
  the solution then we need to have something capable of doing what is 
  being asked in the NPRM.ScrivMarlon K. Schafer 
  (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All, 
  http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-06-1813A1.doc 
  Looks like we're still TWO years away from being able to use the white 
   spaces. In a month we'll see the first draft rules from the 
  FCC. It looks like what they want to do is to get some 
  testing data. I'd  like to propose to them that we be allowed to 
  build a few test systems  using 2.4 ghz to tv band converters. 
  Similar to the 2.4 to 900mhz  converters. 
  I think it's important to have the support of WISPA on this, 
  officially. Thoughts? Marlon 
  (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting 
  services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 
  64.146.146.12 (net meeting) 
  www.odessaoffice.com/wireless 
  www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam-- 
  WISPA Wireless List: 
  wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: 
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Re: [WISPA] tv white spaces update and a question for you guys

2006-09-13 Thread John Scrivner
I do not know what you are asking. Marlon and I were debating what type 
of system we should try to get the FCC to allow us to use as a test bed 
system for experimentation with unused television channel space as a 
platform for broadband delivery. I think we are all talking about the 
same thing here but I am not sure what you are asking.

Scriv


Mario Pommier wrote:

if you want to test tv-band spectrum penetration in rural areas -- 
read, with lots of trees -- that's where testing needs to take place.
I'm sure there's a lot of us who operate in areas that qualify for 
this kind of signal obstruction.

what do you mean by wispa officially supports?

Mario

John Scrivner wrote:

I would think a better approach would be to work with Intel or 
another company who is already building prototypes to get a test 
system built and have WISPs become the operations portion of a test 
for this type of technology. A converted WiFi unit will not have any 
of the existing GPS or sniffing capabilities required in the NPRM. If 
we are going to become part of the solution then we need to have 
something capable of doing what is being asked in the NPRM.

Scriv


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:


Hi All,

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-06-1813A1.doc

Looks like we're still TWO years away from being able to use the 
white spaces.  In a month we'll see the first draft rules from the FCC.


It looks like what they want to do is to get some testing data.  I'd 
like to propose to them that we be allowed to build a few test 
systems using 2.4 ghz to tv band converters.  Similar to the 2.4 to 
900mhz converters.


I think it's important to have the support of WISPA on this, 
officially.


Thoughts?
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own 
wisp!

64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




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Re: [WISPA] tv white spaces update and a question for you guys

2006-09-13 Thread Jon Langeler
Marlon, I'm rather surprised that you would even mention 2.4GHz(wifi I 
assume) as a possible technology to use in these bands. Now that they 
have cellular technologies specifically designed for BWA purposes 
(Canopy and WIMAX are good examples) and given the possibility of a 
fresh start to using this spectrum, using an unarguably inferior 
technology for BWA like wifi just doesn't make sense. You end up with 
the craziness we have right now in the current bands. If testing data 
for equipment operation in that band is needed, you could probably 
obtain this information from a few companies off the top of my head like 
Qualcomm(Flash-OFDM), IPwireless(TD-CDMA) and Airspan(WIMAX and 
proprietary), that currently have experience w/ 700MHz.
IMO if they ever release a 'WISP band'(which I would be surprised), 
they need to have a GPS synchronized transmission cycle as a 
requirement... Here's an idea, make WIMAX as the accepted technology for 
that spectrum. Then all you need is the WISP(s) in the area to 
coordinate transmission cycles to minimize interference potential. That 
leads to a whole other subject, if a 'wisp-band' were opened up, the 
WISP industry could potentially be a whole new ball-game...think 
companies(AOL, Speakeasy, Covad, etc) spending 10s of millions to go 
regional/nation-wide that you would otherwise potentially not have to 
compete against. Now THAT would be interesting :-)


Jon Langeler
Michwave Tech.

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:


Hi All,

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-06-1813A1.doc

Looks like we're still TWO years away from being able to use the white 
spaces.  In a month we'll see the first draft rules from the FCC.


It looks like what they want to do is to get some testing data.  I'd 
like to propose to them that we be allowed to build a few test systems 
using 2.4 ghz to tv band converters.  Similar to the 2.4 to 900mhz 
converters.


I think it's important to have the support of WISPA on this, officially.

Thoughts?
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



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Re: [WISPA] tv white spaces update and a question for you guys

2006-09-12 Thread John Scrivner
I would think a better approach would be to work with Intel or another 
company who is already building prototypes to get a test system built 
and have WISPs become the operations portion of a test for this type of 
technology. A converted WiFi unit will not have any of the existing GPS 
or sniffing capabilities required in the NPRM. If we are going to become 
part of the solution then we need to have something capable of doing 
what is being asked in the NPRM.

Scriv


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:


Hi All,

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-06-1813A1.doc

Looks like we're still TWO years away from being able to use the white 
spaces.  In a month we'll see the first draft rules from the FCC.


It looks like what they want to do is to get some testing data.  I'd 
like to propose to them that we be allowed to build a few test systems 
using 2.4 ghz to tv band converters.  Similar to the 2.4 to 900mhz 
converters.


I think it's important to have the support of WISPA on this, officially.

Thoughts?
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




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Re: [WISPA] tv white spaces update and a question for you guys

2006-09-12 Thread Ron Wallace
Yea, Scriv you are right - forget my screwball ideas.
Ron Wallace Hahnron, Inc. 220 S. Jackson Dt. Addison, MI 49220 Phone: (517)547-8410 Mobile: (517)605-4542 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]-Original Message-From: John Scrivner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 01:17 PMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: Re: [WISPA] tv white spaces update and a question for you guysI would think a better approach would be to work with Intel or another company who is already building prototypes to get a test system built and have WISPs become the operations portion of a test for this type of technology. A converted WiFi unit will not have any of the existing GPS or sniffing capabilities required in the NPRM. If we are going to become part of the solution then we need to have something capable of doing what is being asked in the NPRM.ScrivMarlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All, http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-06-1813A1.doc Looks like we're still TWO years away from being able to use the white  spaces. In a month we'll see the first draft rules from the FCC. It looks like what they want to do is to get some testing data. I'd  like to propose to them that we be allowed to build a few test systems  using 2.4 ghz to tv band converters. Similar to the 2.4 to 900mhz  converters. I think it's important to have the support of WISPA on this, officially. Thoughts? Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam-- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
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Re: [WISPA] tv white spaces update and a question for you guys

2006-09-12 Thread Ron Wallace
Here is the relevant paragraph.

"The Notice proposed to require that fixed unlicensed devices incorporate a geo-location method such as GPS or be professionally installed, and that they access a database to identify vacant channels at their location. It proposed to require that portable unlicensed devices operate only when they receive a control signal from a source such as an FM or TV station that identifies the vacant TV channels in that particular area. The Commission also sought comment on the use of spectrum sensing to identify vacant TV channels, but did not propose any specific technical requirements for devices that use spectrum sensing."
The GPS requirement does not seem to present a problem, for Fixed Wireless, many GPs devices cna be incorporated into any PC. As for a data base that exists and is available from Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] , or could be accomodated to ID vacant channels at a given location. If this is all that is required the information is already available.

For "Portable Unlicensed devices" the requirement is more difficult, I admit. But to runa test for fixed unlicensed devices this should be much more straight forward.

What do you guys think?
Ron Wallace Hahnron, Inc. 220 S. Jackson Dt. Addison, MI 49220 Phone: (517)547-8410 Mobile: (517)605-4542 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]-Original Message-From: John Scrivner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 01:17 PMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: Re: [WISPA] tv white spaces update and a question for you guysI would think a better approach would be to work with Intel or another company who is already building prototypes to get a test system built and have WISPs become the operations portion of a test for this type of technology. A converted WiFi unit will not have any of the existing GPS or sniffing capabilities required in the NPRM. If we are going to become part of the solution then we need to have something capable of doing what is being asked in the NPRM.ScrivMarlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All, http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-06-1813A1.doc Looks like we're still TWO years away from being able to use the white  spaces. In a month we'll see the first draft rules from the FCC. It looks like what they want to do is to get some testing data. I'd  like to propose to them that we be allowed to build a few test systems  using 2.4 ghz to tv band converters. Similar to the 2.4 to 900mhz  converters. I think it's important to have the support of WISPA on this, officially. Thoughts? Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam-- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
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RE: [WISPA] tv white spaces update and a question for you guys

2006-09-12 Thread Brian Webster



Ron,
 Where did this relevant paragraph come from? I like the mention of 
me but I can't take credit for it. I use the information from the FCC data, just 
happen to be pretty good at mapping the information. Most people could do a 
simple search channel by channel in the FCC database and get maps. This 
requirement should be easy to meet. I have said before that we should also be 
able to use the methods yet to be approved for 5.4 GHz stuff. If it's good 
enough not to broadcast over radar it should work for TV stations too. The idea 
of some FM or TV station sending some control signal scares me. That's like 
leaving the mouse in charge of the cheese factory. Who gets a say in what they 
put on that control channel. Spectrum sensing should be a no brainer and would 
work fine. It still irks the crap out of me that they worry about this anyway. 
So few people receive signals off the air that they won't notice any low power 
spread spectrum signals. Politicsat least all these failed 
muni projects will force some spectrum policy though. It'll take a couple of 
years but it'll happen.

Thank You,
Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

  -Original Message-From: Ron Wallace 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 
  4:25 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] tv 
  white spaces update and a question for you guys
  Here is the relevant paragraph.
  
  "The Notice proposed to require that fixed 
  unlicensed devices incorporate a geo-location method such as GPS or be 
  professionally installed, and that they access a database to identify vacant 
  channels at their location. It proposed to require that portable 
  unlicensed devices operate only when they receive a control signal from a 
  source such as an FM or TV station that identifies the vacant TV channels in 
  that particular area. The Commission also sought comment on the use of 
  spectrum sensing to identify vacant TV channels, but did not propose any 
  specific technical requirements for devices that use spectrum 
  sensing."
  The GPS requirement does not seem to present a 
  problem, for Fixed Wireless, many GPs devices cna be incorporated into any 
  PC. As for a data base that exists and is available from Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] , 
  or could be accomodated to ID vacant channels at a given location. If 
  this is all that is required the information is already 
available.
  
  For "Portable Unlicensed devices" the 
  requirement is more difficult, I admit. But to runa test for fixed 
  unlicensed devices this should be much more straight forward.
  
  What do you guys think?
  Ron Wallace Hahnron, 
  Inc. 220 S. Jackson Dt. Addison, MI 49220 Phone: (517)547-8410 
  Mobile: (517)605-4542 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]-Original Message-From: 
  John Scrivner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 
  2006 01:17 PMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: Re: [WISPA] tv 
  white spaces update and a question for you guysI would think a 
  better approach would be to work with Intel or another company who is 
  already building prototypes to get a test system built and have WISPs 
  become the operations portion of a test for this type of technology. A 
  converted WiFi unit will not have any of the existing GPS or sniffing 
  capabilities required in the NPRM. If we are going to become part of 
  the solution then we need to have something capable of doing what is 
  being asked in the NPRM.ScrivMarlon K. Schafer 
  (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All, 
  http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-06-1813A1.doc 
  Looks like we're still TWO years away from being able to use the white 
   spaces. In a month we'll see the first draft rules from the 
  FCC. It looks like what they want to do is to get some 
  testing data. I'd  like to propose to them that we be allowed to 
  build a few test systems  using 2.4 ghz to tv band converters. 
  Similar to the 2.4 to 900mhz  converters. 
  I think it's important to have the support of WISPA on this, 
  officially. Thoughts? Marlon 
  (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting 
  services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 
  64.146.146.12 (net meeting) 
  www.odessaoffice.com/wireless 
  www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam-- 
  WISPA Wireless List: 
  wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: 
  http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 
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