Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need)

2005-12-28 Thread Tom DeReggi
The requirement is for cost to come down. When the cost comes down to the 
level that we can build the adequate redundancy into our design, it will be 
a reality to compete.  My hope is that GB wireless will get here when it is 
needed to compete for the market share before FOIS gets it first.  Getting 
market share after the fact is difficult and costly.


Travis's point on reliabilty is a good point. Tripple play is going to be 
the future competitor, and to offer tripple play reliabilty gets WAY more 
important.  Homebrew backyard designed networks are going to become a thing 
of the past. The industry got away with it with Broadband alone, but tripple 
play is a new animal.


The problem we have is that we can't leverage existing inplace 
infrastructure like the Telcos and Cable companies. They already have 
inbound revenue to pay the cost of the infrastructure in place. For them the 
tripple play is just a slight redesign, and they economies of scale to pay 
for their migrations and upgrades, and most importantly to use as calateral 
for their expansion loans. For new player in the WISP world, we don't have 
that advantage.  If we add a radio every mile along a road, we eat the cost 
of the UPS and electricity every mile down the road as well.  Thats hard to 
eat, when we have to pay cash for it all upfront. So financing/investment 
sources are going to have to become more easy obtainable to fund the growth. 
One of the things I liked about GigaBeam was their model to finance the gear 
through the manufacturer. It takes that limitation out of the equation.  OF 
course if gear ever gets sub $2000, financing will be less of an issue. It 
will be interesting to see how things develop.



Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really 
need)



I am not going to debate what the ultimate broadband system architecture is 
too long because there really is no perfect solution. There are way too 
many ways of doing things for us to debate it too much.  I used to be in 
the Cable Television industry. In my 10 years in that business I saw 
several different architectures used to deploy cable television networks. 
What I am proposing here is no more or less capable of being a solid 
delivery platform than these other designs I saw in the past. It is simply 
different.


There are more points of failure in what I am proposing than there is in 
direct fiber runs. That does not mean it is a bad solution. It simply 
means there are more possible points of failure. The impact of this factor 
can be minimized if proper design methods are employed. There is no 
mention here of how deep a cascade would go for these nodes of millimeter 
wave. We could all get into the specifics of node count, power backup, 
loop architecture, etc. but the long and short of it is this. If radios 
are designed and built with low cost,  low incidence of failure and 
cascade counts are kept to a minimum then a very acceptable and practical 
design can be built in a cost effective way to deliver a triple play 
solution.


The ability to deploy an entire community-wide network with this design in 
a timely fashion is probably the most attractive factor in this proposed 
design. I am reasonably certain that a well trained crew could setup an 
entire small town in just a few days. I really believe that in time you 
will see millimeter wave radios used as a way of delivering high bandwidth 
for multiple service offerings in WISP operations. Is it the broadband 
architecture? I doubt it. I also doubt there is a perfect architecture out 
there. Regardless I am certain what I am proposing is very capable of 
being an effective platform for triple play deployment. Until there are 
low-cost reliable CMOS based millimeter wave radios this discussion is 
academic.

Scriv



Travis Johnson wrote:


John,

I believe there is such a thing coming, and that it may fit in some 
applications. But I can't see carrying data, VoIP and TVIP across a 
wireless backbone that is all fed from the radio next to it. Unless you 
are going to run a complete mesh type network (which would be hard with 
radios that only reach a few hundred feet), then each radio is dependant 
on the upstream radio. So to go around a neighborhood with 100 homes, you 
could be talking 20-30 radios, plus the WiMAX or Wifi access points, etc.


You've heard the 12 days of Christmas song that says One light goes out 
they all go out, right? :)


We currently have a fully looped fiber ring around our city. We currently 
have about 50 customer drops, and we run Cisco switches with 
Spanning-Tree at 1gbps speeds. Even at this level, there are still 
problems. Fiber outages, switches that fail, long term power outages (8+ 
hours) at customer locations

Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need)

2005-12-27 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
Seriously, how much does a sub use anyway?  If you keep control over 
p2p, how much are they really going to take anyway?  Anyone got numbers?


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Although the service is not available yet in my area, it is getting close and
reports are it could be available in 2006 - check out this pricing - the 15Mbps
for $49.95 a month seems like a really good deal and would be tough to beat,
currently I am using Nstream/MT which gives me about 20Mbps to the customer

Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps $34.95 - $39.95 
Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps$44.95 - $49.95 
Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps$179.95 - $199.95


 



--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17


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RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need)

2005-12-27 Thread Rick Smith

And that's why having them sealed into a contract like Bob believes in protects 
you :)

Won't be long before YOU can get that feed (maybe from another ISP) as well and 
start feeding it into wireless shtuff 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:21 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need)

I agree, most sub's use about 1Mbps to 2Mbps if they very active downloading 
content (ftp, streaming, and some p2p) (I limit p2p on
my system but allow some
bursts) other traffic is not limited

But when trying to sell a customer will go and say hey I can get 15Mbps from 
verizon for $50 and only XX from  you


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
 Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:15 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they 
 really need)
 
 Seriously, how much does a sub use anyway?  If you keep control over 
 p2p, how much are they really going to take anyway?  Anyone got numbers?
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Although the service is not available yet in my area, it is getting 
 close and reports are it could be available in 2006 - check out this 
 pricing - the
 15Mbps
 for $49.95 a month seems like a really good deal and would be tough 
 to beat, currently I am using Nstream/MT which gives me about 20Mbps 
 to the customer
 
 Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps  $34.95 - $39.95
 Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps $44.95 - $49.95
 Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps $179.95 - $199.95
 
 
 
 
 
 --
 Brian Rohrbacher
 Reliable Internet, LLC
 www.reliableinter.net
 Cell 269-838-8338
 
 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17
 
 
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 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
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Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need)

2005-12-27 Thread Tom DeReggi

Bob made a good point regarding contracts.

Use the you can serve them today, to your advantage, and lock them in. 
Charge install fees because you can, so yoour gear is paid for by the time 
FIOS does come, and you are in the position to be your most competitive.
My view is that it is a time stall situation. Wireless gear is evolving. Its 
jsut a matter of time before 70 Ghz GB gear can be had for pennies. Maybe 
not this year, but sooner or later it will. When FIOS is a real threat to 
Wireless, thats when the GB wireless manufacturers will start to lower their 
prices, because it is what they'll need to do to sell gear.
Make sure your antenna colocation agreements on every sub's building allows 
for a second antenna, so when you can afford to go GB broadband, you can do 
so without delay from landlords.


Verizon has been advertising FIOS hard in our markets to, but its been over 
6 month for some, since advertsied and no FIOS. FIOS is expensive to 
buildout, and they need a certain number of pre-signed up subscribers to do 
it. Its hard to convince people to get rif of their satelite and cabled TV. 
There is security in not being locked down to a signle provider for ALL 
services. I can see it now, someone gets behind on their phone bill, and all 
a sudden the TV gets turned off, the broadband gets turned off, and the 
PHONE.


IF you wait until FIOS is installed and then try to compete you won't be 
able to. The goal is to scoop up the clients before its available.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 5:01 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really 
need)





Right.  Unless there's a technology upgrade soon in the 2 / 5 gig areas, 
we're going to

need something else to compete...

I have a 20 meg feed right now, and it's about 1.5 meg average...  But to 
no customers can

I deliver more than 10 meg to without a fortune in hardware

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:43 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really 
need)


I can get a 100Mbps or 200Mbps feed today at very good pricing (what I 
would pay for a T1 5 years ago :-)) but the problem I see it

is delivering 15+Mbps in a PtMP setup




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Rick Smith
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:28 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they
really need)


And that's why having them sealed into a contract like Bob believes in
protects you :)

Won't be long before YOU can get that feed (maybe from another ISP) as
well and start feeding it into wireless shtuff

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:21 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they
really need)

I agree, most sub's use about 1Mbps to 2Mbps if they very active
downloading content (ftp, streaming, and some p2p) (I limit p2p on my
system but allow some
bursts) other traffic is not limited

But when trying to sell a customer will go and say hey I can get
15Mbps from verizon for $50 and only XX from  you


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
 Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:15 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they
 really need)

 Seriously, how much does a sub use anyway?  If you keep control over
 p2p, how much are they really going to take anyway?  Anyone got 
 numbers?


 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Although the service is not available yet in my area, it is getting
 close and reports are it could be available in 2006 - check out
 this pricing - the
 15Mbps
 for $49.95 a month seems like a really good deal and would be tough
 to beat, currently I am using Nstream/MT which gives me about
 20Mbps to the customer
 
 Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps  $34.95 - $39.95
 Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps $44.95 - $49.95
 Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps $179.95 - $199.95
 
 
 
 

 --
 Brian Rohrbacher
 Reliable Internet, LLC
 www.reliableinter.net
 Cell 269-838-8338

 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17


 --
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

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 --
 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG Free Edition.
 Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date:
 12/23/2005


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7

Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need)

2005-12-27 Thread Travis Johnson
I have been saying for YEARS on these lists that you can NOT compete on 
price... you have to compete on service and customer support. Period.


We currently charge $10 per month more than CableOne. They are selling 
an up to 3meg connection for $29.95. I currently sell a 512k 
connection for $40 per month (guaranteed 512k 24x7), and we are doing 
80-100 installs per month. Most people are going up to the 1meg for $50 
per month even. But we offer local support, 10 email accounts, real 
static IP, a real office they can visit, and we ALWAYS answer the phone 
with a live person. :)


Travis
Microserv

Tom DeReggi wrote:


Bob made a good point regarding contracts.

Use the you can serve them today, to your advantage, and lock them in. 
Charge install fees because you can, so yoour gear is paid for by the 
time FIOS does come, and you are in the position to be your most 
competitive.
My view is that it is a time stall situation. Wireless gear is 
evolving. Its jsut a matter of time before 70 Ghz GB gear can be had 
for pennies. Maybe not this year, but sooner or later it will. When 
FIOS is a real threat to Wireless, thats when the GB wireless 
manufacturers will start to lower their prices, because it is what 
they'll need to do to sell gear.
Make sure your antenna colocation agreements on every sub's building 
allows for a second antenna, so when you can afford to go GB 
broadband, you can do so without delay from landlords.


Verizon has been advertising FIOS hard in our markets to, but its been 
over 6 month for some, since advertsied and no FIOS. FIOS is expensive 
to buildout, and they need a certain number of pre-signed up 
subscribers to do it. Its hard to convince people to get rif of their 
satelite and cabled TV. There is security in not being locked down to 
a signle provider for ALL services. I can see it now, someone gets 
behind on their phone bill, and all a sudden the TV gets turned off, 
the broadband gets turned off, and the PHONE.


IF you wait until FIOS is installed and then try to compete you won't 
be able to. The goal is to scoop up the clients before its available.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 5:01 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they 
really need)





Right.  Unless there's a technology upgrade soon in the 2 / 5 gig 
areas, we're going to

need something else to compete...

I have a 20 meg feed right now, and it's about 1.5 meg average...  
But to no customers can

I deliver more than 10 meg to without a fortune in hardware

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:43 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they 
really need)


I can get a 100Mbps or 200Mbps feed today at very good pricing (what 
I would pay for a T1 5 years ago :-)) but the problem I see it

is delivering 15+Mbps in a PtMP setup




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Rick Smith
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:28 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they
really need)


And that's why having them sealed into a contract like Bob believes in
protects you :)

Won't be long before YOU can get that feed (maybe from another ISP) as
well and start feeding it into wireless shtuff

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:21 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they
really need)

I agree, most sub's use about 1Mbps to 2Mbps if they very active
downloading content (ftp, streaming, and some p2p) (I limit p2p on my
system but allow some
bursts) other traffic is not limited

But when trying to sell a customer will go and say hey I can get
15Mbps from verizon for $50 and only XX from  you


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
 Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:15 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they
 really need)

 Seriously, how much does a sub use anyway?  If you keep control over
 p2p, how much are they really going to take anyway?  Anyone got  
numbers?


 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Although the service is not available yet in my area, it is getting
 close and reports are it could be available in 2006 - check out
 this pricing - the
 15Mbps
 for $49.95 a month seems like a really good deal and would be tough
 to beat, currently I am using Nstream/MT which gives me about
 20Mbps to the customer
 
 Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps  $34.95 - $39.95
 Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps $44.95 - $49.95

Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need)

2005-12-27 Thread Bob Moldashel

Tom DeReggi wrote:


Bob made a good point regarding contracts.

Use the you can serve them today, to your advantage, and lock them in. 
Charge install fees because you can, so yoour gear is paid for by the 
time FIOS does come, and you are in the position to be your most 
competitive.
My view is that it is a time stall situation. Wireless gear is 
evolving. Its jsut a matter of time before 70 Ghz GB gear can be had 
for pennies. Maybe not this year, but sooner or later it will. When 
FIOS is a real threat to Wireless, thats when the GB wireless 
manufacturers will start to lower their prices, because it is what 
they'll need to do to sell gear.
Make sure your antenna colocation agreements on every sub's building 
allows for a second antenna, so when you can afford to go GB 
broadband, you can do so without delay from landlords.


Verizon has been advertising FIOS hard in our markets to, but its been 
over 6 month for some, since advertsied and no FIOS. FIOS is expensive 
to buildout, and they need a certain number of pre-signed up 
subscribers to do it. Its hard to convince people to get rif of their 
satelite and cabled TV. There is security in not being locked down to 
a signle provider for ALL services. I can see it now, someone gets 
behind on their phone bill, and all a sudden the TV gets turned off, 
the broadband gets turned off, and the PHONE.


IF you wait until FIOS is installed and then try to compete you won't 
be able to. The goal is to scoop up the clients before its available.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


One more thing to add.Give some value to signing a contract. In 
other words...make the install price $249 instead of $599 if you sign a 
2 year contract.  Most judges like to see that the defendants (as I 
call them) have received some sort of compensation for signing the 
contract. This gives the contract some real legal worth.


And don't let people out of their contract for anything!  They signed, 
they got cheap install.  You held up your end of the deal..now they need 
to hold up theres


--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need)

2005-12-27 Thread Bob Moldashel

Travis Johnson wrote:

I have been saying for YEARS on these lists that you can NOT compete 
on price... you have to compete on service and customer support. Period.


We currently charge $10 per month more than CableOne. They are selling 
an up to 3meg connection for $29.95. I currently sell a 512k 
connection for $40 per month (guaranteed 512k 24x7), and we are doing 
80-100 installs per month. Most people are going up to the 1meg for 
$50 per month even. But we offer local support, 10 email accounts, 
real static IP, a real office they can visit, and we ALWAYS answer the 
phone with a live person. :)


Travis
Microserv




-B-   --waiting for Travis to retire any day now...   :-)

Sell that sucker...what are you waiting for

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need)

2005-12-27 Thread Travis Johnson

LOL.

Because I still enjoy coming to work each day and I'm making a good 
living... and I get to do what I want from replacing bad radios on 
top of 9,000ft mountains to changing out light bulbs (literally)... ;)


Of course, there are days that aren't so good Christmas Eve I had to 
go clean ice off the dish that's at 9,000ft elevation... 5 hours total 
time and then Christmas Day I got to go replace a failed Intel 
ethernet switch on a different mountaintop repeater... 6 hours total 
time... but all in all, it's still a fun job... :)


Travis
Microserv

Bob Moldashel wrote:


Travis Johnson wrote:

I have been saying for YEARS on these lists that you can NOT compete 
on price... you have to compete on service and customer support. Period.


We currently charge $10 per month more than CableOne. They are 
selling an up to 3meg connection for $29.95. I currently sell a 
512k connection for $40 per month (guaranteed 512k 24x7), and we are 
doing 80-100 installs per month. Most people are going up to the 1meg 
for $50 per month even. But we offer local support, 10 email 
accounts, real static IP, a real office they can visit, and we ALWAYS 
answer the phone with a live person. :)


Travis
Microserv





-B-   --waiting for Travis to retire any day now...   :-)

Sell that sucker...what are you waiting for



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Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need)

2005-12-27 Thread John Thomas
And, when they have a problem and the jerk at Verizon support doesn't 
fix it.


There is some value in being able to talk to the owner of a business. 
There are prople that don't see it


I worked for a roofing company, they moved about 8-10 million dollars a 
year. The owner of the company was approached by Wells Fargo bank. Do 
you know what hetold Wells Fargo?
When the president of Wells Fargo is willing to come over and pick up 
my daily receipts,then we can talk. You see, the President of the 
Brentwood bank  would occasionally come over and pick up the daily 
receipts. Granted, the roofing company was probably the biggest client 
of the bank, but it does show some value 


John

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I agree, most sub's use about 1Mbps to 2Mbps if they very active downloading
content (ftp, streaming, and some p2p) (I limit p2p on my system but allow some
bursts) other traffic is not limited

But when trying to sell a customer will go and say hey I can get 15Mbps from
verizon for $50 and only XX from  you


 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:15 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need)

Seriously, how much does a sub use anyway?  If you keep control over
p2p, how much are they really going to take anyway?  Anyone got numbers?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   


Although the service is not available yet in my area, it is getting close and
reports are it could be available in 2006 - check out this pricing - the
 


15Mbps
   


for $49.95 a month seems like a really good deal and would be tough to beat,
currently I am using Nstream/MT which gives me about 20Mbps to the customer

Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps $34.95 - $39.95
Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps$44.95 - $49.95
Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps$179.95 - $199.95




 


--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17


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Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005

   



 




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Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need)

2005-12-27 Thread John Scrivner
I am not going to debate what the ultimate broadband system architecture 
is too long because there really is no perfect solution. There are way 
too many ways of doing things for us to debate it too much.  I used to 
be in the Cable Television industry. In my 10 years in that business I 
saw several different architectures used to deploy cable television 
networks. What I am proposing here is no more or less capable of being a 
solid delivery platform than these other designs I saw in the past. It 
is simply different.


There are more points of failure in what I am proposing than there is in 
direct fiber runs. That does not mean it is a bad solution. It simply 
means there are more possible points of failure. The impact of this 
factor can be minimized if proper design methods are employed. There is 
no mention here of how deep a cascade would go for these nodes of 
millimeter wave. We could all get into the specifics of node count, 
power backup, loop architecture, etc. but the long and short of it is 
this. If radios are designed and built with low cost,  low incidence of 
failure and cascade counts are kept to a minimum then a very acceptable 
and practical design can be built in a cost effective way to deliver a 
triple play solution.


The ability to deploy an entire community-wide network with this design 
in a timely fashion is probably the most attractive factor in this 
proposed design. I am reasonably certain that a well trained crew could 
setup an entire small town in just a few days. I really believe that in 
time you will see millimeter wave radios used as a way of delivering 
high bandwidth for multiple service offerings in WISP operations. Is it 
the broadband architecture? I doubt it. I also doubt there is a 
perfect architecture out there. Regardless I am certain what I am 
proposing is very capable of being an effective platform for triple play 
deployment. Until there are low-cost reliable CMOS based millimeter wave 
radios this discussion is academic.

Scriv



Travis Johnson wrote:


John,

I believe there is such a thing coming, and that it may fit in some 
applications. But I can't see carrying data, VoIP and TVIP across a 
wireless backbone that is all fed from the radio next to it. Unless 
you are going to run a complete mesh type network (which would be hard 
with radios that only reach a few hundred feet), then each radio is 
dependant on the upstream radio. So to go around a neighborhood with 
100 homes, you could be talking 20-30 radios, plus the WiMAX or Wifi 
access points, etc.


You've heard the 12 days of Christmas song that says One light goes 
out they all go out, right? :)


We currently have a fully looped fiber ring around our city. We 
currently have about 50 customer drops, and we run Cisco switches with 
Spanning-Tree at 1gbps speeds. Even at this level, there are still 
problems. Fiber outages, switches that fail, long term power outages 
(8+ hours) at customer locations, etc.


People can handle the Internet being down for a few minutes or hours, 
and VoIP a few minutes but TV is an entirely different thing.


Travis
Microserv

John Scrivner wrote:

The day is going to happen in the not so distant future when there 
will be CMOS based 70 to 90 Ghz radios the size of a pack of smokes. 
These will only effectively send data about a few hundred feet. These 
radios will do over 1 Gbps from day one. The idea is to run them back 
to back from street light pole to pole and have WiMAX, Wifi, 802.11a 
(insert your favorite client platform radio here) as the client 
access device to serve a few homes or businesses around the poles.. 
This gives us a platform for broadband, telephone and cable 
television all over wireless. This is not a pipe dream. I am about 2 
weeks from having my first pole agreement signed. It is going to happen.


The 70 Ghz gear is not going to be a long haul solution. It is going 
to be a real nice high throughput short haul solution to compete for 
triple play in cities and even smaller towns eventually. I plan to 
help prove this as a viable broadband platform in my own community. 
Now I just wish my friends at Intel would hurry up the development of 
those CMOS radios! They have all the patents and prototypes today. 
Bring on the GigE through the air!

:-)
Scriv



G.Villarini wrote:


Tom,

How do you think 70 ghz gear will cost pennies and help us? For a 1 
mile ptp
link you need 4 ft dishes on each end, I cant imagine this working 
for us in

ptp or ptmp ...

Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.767.7466

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 6:51 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they 
really

need)

Bob made a good point regarding contracts.

Use the you can serve them today, to your advantage, and lock them 
in. Charge install