Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-23 Thread Matt Larsen - Lists

I would echo Pauls sentiments, exactly.

StarOS has been great for me, and seems to get the most out of the 
hardware that I run it on.  I have some WAR boards, but they are not in 
production yet - I'm waiting for v3 to be ported over before putting 
them up.   There are three things that I really like about StarOS:


1)  Reliability - The code is stable and almost every single failure I 
have had with AP or backhaul radios has been something to do with the 
hardware it was running on.  Sometimes it can be a little sensitive, 
but  generally it is very  good and provides excellent troubleshooting 
information for a hardware related failure


2)  Versatility - You can run it like a regular bridged AP, you can 
route individual subnets to each card, you can do bandwidth control at 
the AP, you can run DNS/DHCP/OSPF/Squid/Hotspot etc etc right there at 
the AP.  I believe most of these features are in Mikrotik as well, so 
just consider that to be plusses for both of them.


3)  Ease of Use - The StarOS interface is very straightforward and full 
of excellent tools and documentation examples.  I have taught several 
green techs how to run it in a very short period of time.   The 
Mikrotik interface - not so easy.  You can do a lot of basic stuff with 
Winbox on the Mikrotik, but the text-based interface harks back to the 
days of Cisco IOS for me.  I don't really feel a strong need to go back 
there.


One other important reason for preferring StarOS is that it has an 
excellent driver for the Orinoco/Lucent chipset cards.  I don't believe 
Mikrotik has one.  Someone recently told me that using the Orinoco 
chipset cards was so 1999, but the combination of a Lucent card 
with a YDI amplifier has been extremely stable for me and provides 
excellent results especially in long range and high-noise environments.  
For my environment, there is simply no better card/amp combination.  And 
it works best in StarOS.


I do like Mikrotik a lot - in fact my core router is a Mikrotik.  It has 
a lot of routing features that StarOS doesn't have, and works great for 
that.  I know that a lot of people are also using it for AP and CPE as 
well, with plenty of success.   We are very fortunate to have tools like 
these available to us.


Matt Larsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Paul Hendry wrote:


Hey Ron and happy Crimbo to you all,

 

Ah, that old chestnut. I think this question has been asked on every 
forum and list I have ever been on. In general, StarOS has always come 
out on top in any point-to-point and point-to-multipoint tests we have 
done even with Mikrotik running nstreme. Certainly on the WRAP 
platform StarOS is able to pass almost double the traffic than 
Mikrotik before the CPU becomes the issue. I believe Mikrotik have 
significantly improved the wireless driver in the latest test wireless 
package but haven’t had a chance to test it yet. StarVX running on the 
new WAR boards is amazingly fast and we have seen wireless throughput 
tests on the 4 port board that outperforms both Mikrotik and StarOS 
running on P4 systems. However, there are several bugs in StarVX which 
has caused Valemount to give up development of StarVX and port there 
upcoming V3 StarOS to the WAR platform. Unfortunately, there is 
expected to be a bit of a performance hit with this L


RouterOS does have a lot more features than StarOS and features like 
vlan support are much better with Mikrotik. The main gripe with 
Mikrotik is the support and attitude however this seems to be 
improving too.


Because they both have pro’s and con’s we use StarOS/VX for all 
wireless links (inc. CPE’s) and Mikrotik for core routers, traffic 
shapers, etc.


 


Cheers,

 


P.



*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
*On Behalf Of *Ron Wallace

*Sent:* 22 December 2005 23:11
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

 


Paul,

Merry Christmas  Happy New Year to you and your family.

How would you compare StraOS/VX to Mikrotik RouterOS?


-Original Message-
From: Paul Hendry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 03:52 PM
To: ''WISPA General List''
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

I get about 25 meg aggregate through StarOS on WRAP boards and have 

seen at

least double this on a 2 port WAR board running StarVX. Testing was done
using 2 Mikrotik routers at each end with random UDP traffic.

Cheers,

P.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: 22 December 2005 18:14
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

Have you actually seen these speeds? I have never seen a Star OS
installation do more than about 17 meg aggregate. If you have seen this
then by all means please share the details of the actual hardware used
and configuration if you do not mind.
Thank you,
Scriv


noc.kl.terranova.net wrote:


VIA with StarOS on 5.2/5.3

Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-23 Thread Mark Nash
Matt/Paul/Others:  Thanks for the flow of info.

What hardware is preferred to run the StarOS on?  Most interested in the AP,
but for CPE as well?

I'm highly interested in bandwidth shaping and routing at the AP, and if
routing is available at the sector, then bonus.

Does the StarOS at the AP allow for:

1. Public IPs?  We use all public IP's (usually kept to 1 per customer).

2. Static IPs?  We route /30 subnets out to customers who require static IP
addresses.  That way they will never change even if the network does.  So, a
sub-question here is can we route multiple subnets to a single AP sector?

3. DHCP reservations? (We use DHCP reservations...a low-cost low-security
solution to tell who's using what IP address without authentication.)

Mark Nash
Network Engineer
UnwiredOnline.Net
325 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax

- Original Message - 
From: Matt Larsen - Lists [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 6:20 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?


 I would echo Pauls sentiments, exactly.

 StarOS has been great for me, and seems to get the most out of the
 hardware that I run it on.  I have some WAR boards, but they are not in
 production yet - I'm waiting for v3 to be ported over before putting
 them up.   There are three things that I really like about StarOS:

 1)  Reliability - The code is stable and almost every single failure I
 have had with AP or backhaul radios has been something to do with the
 hardware it was running on.  Sometimes it can be a little sensitive,
 but  generally it is very  good and provides excellent troubleshooting
 information for a hardware related failure

 2)  Versatility - You can run it like a regular bridged AP, you can
 route individual subnets to each card, you can do bandwidth control at
 the AP, you can run DNS/DHCP/OSPF/Squid/Hotspot etc etc right there at
 the AP.  I believe most of these features are in Mikrotik as well, so
 just consider that to be plusses for both of them.

 3)  Ease of Use - The StarOS interface is very straightforward and full
 of excellent tools and documentation examples.  I have taught several
 green techs how to run it in a very short period of time.   The
 Mikrotik interface - not so easy.  You can do a lot of basic stuff with
 Winbox on the Mikrotik, but the text-based interface harks back to the
 days of Cisco IOS for me.  I don't really feel a strong need to go back
 there.

 One other important reason for preferring StarOS is that it has an
 excellent driver for the Orinoco/Lucent chipset cards.  I don't believe
 Mikrotik has one.  Someone recently told me that using the Orinoco
 chipset cards was so 1999, but the combination of a Lucent card
 with a YDI amplifier has been extremely stable for me and provides
 excellent results especially in long range and high-noise environments.
 For my environment, there is simply no better card/amp combination.  And
 it works best in StarOS.

 I do like Mikrotik a lot - in fact my core router is a Mikrotik.  It has
 a lot of routing features that StarOS doesn't have, and works great for
 that.  I know that a lot of people are also using it for AP and CPE as
 well, with plenty of success.   We are very fortunate to have tools like
 these available to us.

 Matt Larsen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Paul Hendry wrote:

  Hey Ron and happy Crimbo to you all,
 
 
 
  Ah, that old chestnut. I think this question has been asked on every
  forum and list I have ever been on. In general, StarOS has always come
  out on top in any point-to-point and point-to-multipoint tests we have
  done even with Mikrotik running nstreme. Certainly on the WRAP
  platform StarOS is able to pass almost double the traffic than
  Mikrotik before the CPU becomes the issue. I believe Mikrotik have
  significantly improved the wireless driver in the latest test wireless
  package but haven’t had a chance to test it yet. StarVX running on the
  new WAR boards is amazingly fast and we have seen wireless throughput
  tests on the 4 port board that outperforms both Mikrotik and StarOS
  running on P4 systems. However, there are several bugs in StarVX which
  has caused Valemount to give up development of StarVX and port there
  upcoming V3 StarOS to the WAR platform. Unfortunately, there is
  expected to be a bit of a performance hit with this L
 
  RouterOS does have a lot more features than StarOS and features like
  vlan support are much better with Mikrotik. The main gripe with
  Mikrotik is the support and attitude however this seems to be
  improving too.
 
  Because they both have pro’s and con’s we use StarOS/VX for all
  wireless links (inc. CPE’s) and Mikrotik for core routers, traffic
  shapers, etc.
 
 
 
  Cheers,
 
 
 
  P.
 
  
 
  *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  *On Behalf Of *Ron Wallace
  *Sent:* 22

Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-23 Thread Ron Wallace
ROFLMAO-Original Message-From: David E. Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 10:29 AMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?Ron Wallace wrote: That is exactly what I needed to hear, regarding the 2 OSs. Now a second Q, what is the difference between the WRAP and WAR boards? In the good ole USA these days, a WAR board may take on many definitions. And since the CIA is monitoring e-mails I'm sure this will 'peak' their interest. And where are you getting your boards?War violence ECHELON MI-6 Al-Qaeda hatecrime. There, that'll keep the CIAbusy for a while. :DThe WAR board is a specialized board that Valemount makes; you can get 'emfrom www.star-os.com. (Depending on how your network is laid out, youmight want to wait another couple weeks until they finish the nextrevision of the software -- there are reports on the StarOS forums thatbridging is more-or-less fried at this time.) WAR boards use an...interesting... processor (the Intel IXP 420, which I'd never even heard ofbefore I first saw these boards), which basically means StarVX (theirsouped-up version of StarOS for this board) is the only thing you can usethem for.WRAPs are widely available from your favorite wireless shop. It'sbasically a tiny Pentium-233. You get more flexibility in what you can runon a WRAP board (it's a standard x86-type processor, so you can runStarOS, RouterOS, heck, MS-DOS, probably even Windows 95 if you work atit), but there's not nearly as much performance there (it's ageneral-purpose board with an older processor).David SmithMVN.net-- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
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Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-23 Thread David E. Smith
Mark Nash wrote:

 What hardware is preferred to run the StarOS on?  Most interested in the
 AP, but for CPE as well?

The neat thing about StarOS is that it's Linux-based, so it'll probably
run on just about any old computer you've got sitting in the closet. :D

If your traffic will stay under, say, 10Mbps aggregate at a given
location, a WRAP board, or a Routerboard 200, will work splendidly. (Both
those boards start hitting the limits of the CPU around there.) I prefer
the Routerboard 200s, personally; they're a bit more expensive, but I like
having PCMCIA slots and the option to add more RAM if I ever need it. And
they seem to be a bit more tolerant of the OMG COLD weather, though I've
seen a few of them get flaky when the temperatures fall below -10 degrees
Fahrenheit.

For CPE, I'd probably stick with WRAP boards. They're smaller and cuter.
And wisp-router.com sells the indoor cases in a wide variety of colors to
match most any carpet and drapes scheme.

 I'm highly interested in bandwidth shaping and routing at the AP, and if
 routing is available at the sector, then bonus.

Bandwidth shaping works well, but can be a bit processor-intensive. With
routing multiple subnets, running two separate wireless cards, and doing
bandwidth shaping, a RB200 should be able to handle most of a hundred
clients (one of my boards in that exact setup has about 70 clients and
stays at 30-40% CPU usage).

 Does the StarOS at the AP allow for:

 1. Public IPs?  We use all public IP's (usually kept to 1 per customer).

Yep. (IPs are IPs, the software doesn't care whether they're public or
RFC1918-private.)

 2. Static IPs?  We route /30 subnets out to customers who require static
 IP
 addresses.  That way they will never change even if the network does.  So,
 a
 sub-question here is can we route multiple subnets to a single AP sector?

Shouldn't be a problem. We route our network a bit differently - sending a
/27 or so to a given location, and assigning static addresses out of that
block to the customers - but in theory you should be able to put a larger
quantity of /30s on an interface and it'll work just the same.

 3. DHCP reservations? (We use DHCP reservations...a low-cost low-security
 solution to tell who's using what IP address without authentication.)

It's in there, though the configuration syntax is a bit ugly until you're
used to it. (You'll basically be editing a Linux dhcpd.conf file, and
learning all its quirks will probably take a very small amount of
trial-and-error.)

Good luck!

David Smith
MVN.net
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RE: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-23 Thread Paul Hendry
The WAR board is to Valemount what RB511 is to Mikrotik in that you can only
run proprietary software on the hardware but the pro's of this are that the
software can get better performance than if using generic x86 platform. Ony
thing is that the performance increase with the RB511 over a WRAP isn't
anywhere near as good as the performance increase of a WAR over a WRAP.

BTW, the WRAP uses a Geode 266 which is lots slower than a Pentium 266.

Cheers,

P.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David E. Smith
Sent: 23 December 2005 15:29
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

Ron Wallace wrote:

 That is exactly what I needed to hear, regarding the 2 OSs. Now a second
 Q, what is the difference between the WRAP and WAR boards? In the good ole
 USA these days, a WAR board may take on many definitions. And since the
 CIA is monitoring e-mails I'm sure this will 'peak' their interest. And
 where are you getting your boards?

War violence ECHELON MI-6 Al-Qaeda hatecrime. There, that'll keep the CIA
busy for a while. :D

The WAR board is a specialized board that Valemount makes; you can get 'em
from www.star-os.com. (Depending on how your network is laid out, you
might want to wait another couple weeks until they finish the next
revision of the software -- there are reports on the StarOS forums that
bridging is more-or-less fried at this time.) WAR boards use an...
interesting... processor (the Intel IXP 420, which I'd never even heard of
before I first saw these boards), which basically means StarVX (their
souped-up version of StarOS for this board) is the only thing you can use
them for.

WRAPs are widely available from your favorite wireless shop. It's
basically a tiny Pentium-233. You get more flexibility in what you can run
on a WRAP board (it's a standard x86-type processor, so you can run
StarOS, RouterOS, heck, MS-DOS, probably even Windows 95 if you work at
it), but there's not nearly as much performance there (it's a
general-purpose board with an older processor).

David Smith
MVN.net
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Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-23 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

agreed.

I don't think of myself as a wireless guy.  I'm a bit pusher.  Want dailup, 
I got that.  Want wireless?  i got that.  Want fiber?  I got that too.


Sometimes I think I should install a fur lined interior on the car and wear 
a bright red silk suit to work!  grin


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: George [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?



I do not believe you laying fiber is at all a bad sign to your customers.
You have been on the cutting edge of technology with wireless, why would 
you not do the fiber to continue on with your cutting edge technology 
deployment.


It almost sounds like you believe wireless is better than fiber, but we 
all know fiber/wireless is the end game.


If you are fiber and wireless, you are the cutting edge leader.

My opinion.

George



John Scrivner wrote:
I need some feedback from the collective.  I am looking for a backhaul 
radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at this location. 
It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 meg full or 100 meg 
half duplex. I would like this solution to be under $8K or so. 5.3 Ghz is 
pretty open here. Does a solution exist? I can lay fiber for about $12K 
or so. I am considering doing that but I think laying fiber for my main 
connection when I am a fixed broadband wireless provider sends the wrong 
message to my potential customers when Charter is going all over town 
selling fiber connections. I welcome your feedback.

Scriv




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Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-23 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

For all of you guys looking at fiber.  Be VERY careful.

We've got it out here.  Basically a municipal network, many of them in the 
state already.  Many years old.


It's normally several orders of magnitude more expensive than it's ever made 
out to be.


Just the labor and digging up streets will bust many a budget.

When digging up the roads conduit should certainly be laid to get ready for 
it though!


laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?


I am seeing a future that is very much a mix of fiber, coax, wireless and 
twisted pair. Somewhat like it is now. I think we will see some ultra-high 
bandwidth roll-outs over all mediums that dwarf what we see in most 
situations today. I do see an emerging gravitation toward fiber / wireless 
as the predominant technologies for broadband deployment. We live in a time 
when the promise of $500 - 1.25 Gbps radios is not too far off. I am not 
talking about junk spectrum here. I am talking about licensed 70 to 90 Ghz 
millimeter-wave technology. These are licenses we can all get easily.


I was talking to Jack Rickard not long ago about this technology and its 
impact going forward. I did not understand the advantages of moving the 
semiconductor platform for these millimeter-wave radios from SiGe (Silicon 
Germanium) to CMOS (Complementary Metal Oxide Semiconductor) that I had 
heard others touting as the next big move in this budding industry. Jack 
explained it to me as only he can. He said, Shit John, it's like the 
difference between building chips out of diamonds or rusty nails.. It is 
an economic advantage obviously when it is put like that. I wish you guys 
could have been on that call. It was a trip.


Anyway, I think there are some places where any one technology platform is 
the best choice and I think the delivery technologies are all continuing 
to mature and advance. Prices continue to fall and performance continues 
to increase in DSLAMs, Fiber Systems, Wireless Radio Technology, DOCSIS, 
etc. I see no reason to think there is a dead technology in the lot. I 
simply think that some will prove to be better in some applications than 
others. I do think that fiber is going to be a clear winner in the numbers 
game of which technology serves the highest number of bits in and out. 
That said I do not think people can fathom how much data will be 
airborne within the next few years.


I have two airborne DS3 links on their way to me today. I believe these 
may last three years in their placement before being edged outward in the 
network. This is how my network grows. It parallels someone else's post 
here recently.Very little of my network is ever Dead technology. It 
simply gets re-allocated to the outermost edges of the network to lower 
demand areas as needs increase and change. When I outgrow the DS3 radio at 
my main tower then I am sure there will be $500 1.25 Gbps radios ready to 
put in their place. It is just the natural progression of the cycle of 
technology it seems to me.


Let's just hope Uncle Sam does not screw things up too much under the new 
FCC leadership which seem to want to thwart the efforts of a growing and 
thriving industry. If any of you believe we have a WISP friendly FCC 
right now then I assure you that the facts do not support it. Do not wring 
your hands in fear though. As long as we can all work together as a group 
we will fight the battles for policy and law for this industry. I do not 
plan to sit idly by and let others put up barriers to  opportunities. I 
plan to help make policy and law work for a balanced and fair framework we 
can all work within.


WISPs are now officially very much on the radar. We have made an 
impression. Now Goliath is scared. Congratulations WISPs. You are 
officially important enough to be feared and controversial. In the FCC 
right now the term WISP is well known and understood from a policy 
standpoint. The term WISP is being used in policy hearings, legal 
debates, rulemakings, etc. We are officially a real industry. Now we just 
have to start handling this industry instead letting others handle it for 
us. If you are not already involved then it is time for you to pay up, 
show up or shut up. Pick your path. There is work to do.

Merry Christmas,
Scriv

PS. You would think I would lighten up at Christmas time! Sorry so deep 
today guys!  :-)




George wrote:

Money wise you may be right, not sure of the entire situation that john 
is involved with.


But the focus today is on fiber. And how the community you serve 
perceives your

Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-22 Thread John Scrivner
I am seeing a future that is very much a mix of fiber, coax, wireless 
and twisted pair. Somewhat like it is now. I think we will see some 
ultra-high bandwidth roll-outs over all mediums that dwarf what we see 
in most situations today. I do see an emerging gravitation toward fiber 
/ wireless as the predominant technologies for broadband deployment. We 
live in a time when the promise of $500 - 1.25 Gbps radios is not too 
far off. I am not talking about junk spectrum here. I am talking about 
licensed 70 to 90 Ghz millimeter-wave technology. These are licenses we 
can all get easily.


I was talking to Jack Rickard not long ago about this technology and its 
impact going forward. I did not understand the advantages of moving the 
semiconductor platform for these millimeter-wave radios from SiGe 
(Silicon Germanium) to CMOS (Complementary Metal Oxide Semiconductor) 
that I had heard others touting as the next big move in this budding 
industry. Jack explained it to me as only he can. He said, Shit John, 
it's like the difference between building chips out of diamonds or rusty 
nails.. It is an economic advantage obviously when it is put like that. 
I wish you guys could have been on that call. It was a trip.


Anyway, I think there are some places where any one technology platform 
is the best choice and I think the delivery technologies are all 
continuing to mature and advance. Prices continue to fall and 
performance continues to increase in DSLAMs, Fiber Systems, Wireless 
Radio Technology, DOCSIS, etc. I see no reason to think there is a dead 
technology in the lot. I simply think that some will prove to be better 
in some applications than others. I do think that fiber is going to be a 
clear winner in the numbers game of which technology serves the highest 
number of bits in and out. That said I do not think people can fathom 
how much data will be airborne within the next few years.


I have two airborne DS3 links on their way to me today. I believe 
these may last three years in their placement before being edged outward 
in the network. This is how my network grows. It parallels someone 
else's post here recently.Very little of my network is ever Dead 
technology. It simply gets re-allocated to the outermost edges of the 
network to lower demand areas as needs increase and change. When I 
outgrow the DS3 radio at my main tower then I am sure there will be $500 
1.25 Gbps radios ready to put in their place. It is just the natural 
progression of the cycle of technology it seems to me.


Let's just hope Uncle Sam does not screw things up too much under the 
new FCC leadership which seem to want to thwart the efforts of a growing 
and thriving industry. If any of you believe we have a WISP friendly 
FCC right now then I assure you that the facts do not support it. Do not 
wring your hands in fear though. As long as we can all work together as 
a group we will fight the battles for policy and law for this industry. 
I do not plan to sit idly by and let others put up barriers to  
opportunities. I plan to help make policy and law work for a balanced 
and fair framework we can all work within.


WISPs are now officially very much on the radar. We have made an 
impression. Now Goliath is scared. Congratulations WISPs. You are 
officially important enough to be feared and controversial. In the FCC 
right now the term WISP is well known and understood from a policy 
standpoint. The term WISP is being used in policy hearings, legal 
debates, rulemakings, etc. We are officially a real industry. Now we 
just have to start handling this industry instead letting others handle 
it for us. If you are not already involved then it is time for you to 
pay up, show up or shut up. Pick your path. There is work to do.

Merry Christmas,
Scriv

PS. You would think I would lighten up at Christmas time! Sorry so deep 
today guys!  :-)




George wrote:

Money wise you may be right, not sure of the entire situation that 
john is involved with.


But the focus today is on fiber. And how the community you serve 
perceives your company is very important.


We talked about fiber in 2001 and today people still ask us when the 
fiber is going to be deployed.
Lately our City has been doing telecommunications studies and fiber is 
the key word.


Everyone who studies the future of broadband and connectivity comes to 
the conclusion that fiber is the technology that has the most 
potential in terms of potential to keep up with and surpass any thing 
that comes down the pike.


When everyone was copper a lot of us isps were  pioneering wireless, 
now that wireless is the hot topic, we need to keep our minds open on 
what is available to deploy and fiber is the other option.


In Johns case, which is similar to mine, Charter is rolling out fiber 
builds.


They are leap frogging ahead.

Charter and Telco is our competition and we have to consider our 
future when considering what we deploy today and what our long term 
investments 

Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-22 Thread noc.kl.terranova.net

VIA with StarOS on 5.2/5.3 will get 100Mb. WAR board might do same. - cw


John Scrivner wrote:
I need some feedback from the collective.  I am looking for a 
backhaul radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at 
this location. It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 
50 meg full or 100 meg half duplex. I would like this solution to 
be under $8K or so. 5.3 Ghz is pretty open here. Does a solution 
exist? I can lay fiber for about $12K or so. I am considering doing 
that but I think laying fiber for my main connection when I am a 
fixed broadband wireless provider sends the wrong message to my 
potential customers when Charter is going all over town selling 
fiber connections. I welcome your feedback.

Scriv

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Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-22 Thread John Scrivner
Have you actually seen these speeds? I have never seen a Star OS 
installation do more than about 17 meg aggregate. If you have seen this 
then by all means please share the details of the actual hardware used 
and configuration if you do not mind.

Thank you,
Scriv


noc.kl.terranova.net wrote:


VIA with StarOS on 5.2/5.3 will get 100Mb. WAR board might do same. - cw


John Scrivner wrote:

I need some feedback from the collective.  I am looking for a 
backhaul radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized 
at this location. It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at 
least 50 meg full or 100 meg half duplex. I would like this 
solution to be under $8K or so. 5.3 Ghz is pretty open here. Does 
a solution exist? I can lay fiber for about $12K or so. I am 
considering doing that but I think laying fiber for my main 
connection when I am a fixed broadband wireless provider sends 
the wrong message to my potential customers when Charter is going 
all over town selling fiber connections. I welcome your feedback.

Scriv



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RE: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-22 Thread Paul Hendry
I get about 25 meg aggregate through StarOS on WRAP boards and have seen at
least double this on a 2 port WAR board running StarVX. Testing was done
using 2 Mikrotik routers at each end with random UDP traffic.

Cheers,

P.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: 22 December 2005 18:14
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

Have you actually seen these speeds? I have never seen a Star OS 
installation do more than about 17 meg aggregate. If you have seen this 
then by all means please share the details of the actual hardware used 
and configuration if you do not mind.
Thank you,
Scriv


noc.kl.terranova.net wrote:

 VIA with StarOS on 5.2/5.3 will get 100Mb. WAR board might do same. - cw

 John Scrivner wrote:

 I need some feedback from the collective.  I am looking for a 
 backhaul radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized 
 at this location. It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at 
 least 50 meg full or 100 meg half duplex. I would like this 
 solution to be under $8K or so. 5.3 Ghz is pretty open here. Does 
 a solution exist? I can lay fiber for about $12K or so. I am 
 considering doing that but I think laying fiber for my main 
 connection when I am a fixed broadband wireless provider sends 
 the wrong message to my potential customers when Charter is going 
 all over town selling fiber connections. I welcome your feedback.
 Scriv

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Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-21 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
Agreed, but if you can do it for 2 grand why spend 12?  If the ebay 
radios are reliable, then skip the fiber in my opinion.  Might as well 
take the 10 grand that is left over and install another 25 subs.  ;)


George wrote:


I do not believe you laying fiber is at all a bad sign to your customers.
You have been on the cutting edge of technology with wireless, why 
would you not do the fiber to continue on with your cutting edge 
technology deployment.


It almost sounds like you believe wireless is better than fiber, but 
we all know fiber/wireless is the end game.


If you are fiber and wireless, you are the cutting edge leader.

My opinion.

George



John Scrivner wrote:

I need some feedback from the collective.  I am looking for a 
backhaul radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at 
this location. It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 
meg full or 100 meg half duplex. I would like this solution to be 
under $8K or so. 5.3 Ghz is pretty open here. Does a solution exist? 
I can lay fiber for about $12K or so. I am considering doing that but 
I think laying fiber for my main connection when I am a fixed 
broadband wireless provider sends the wrong message to my potential 
customers when Charter is going all over town selling fiber 
connections. I welcome your feedback.

Scriv






--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17

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RE: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-21 Thread G.Villarini
With the 12K you can put 2 38 ghz links and have lots of spare change

Gino A. Villarini, 
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.767.7466

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 2:34 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

Agreed, but if you can do it for 2 grand why spend 12?  If the ebay 
radios are reliable, then skip the fiber in my opinion.  Might as well 
take the 10 grand that is left over and install another 25 subs.  ;)

George wrote:

 I do not believe you laying fiber is at all a bad sign to your customers.
 You have been on the cutting edge of technology with wireless, why 
 would you not do the fiber to continue on with your cutting edge 
 technology deployment.

 It almost sounds like you believe wireless is better than fiber, but 
 we all know fiber/wireless is the end game.

 If you are fiber and wireless, you are the cutting edge leader.

 My opinion.

 George



 John Scrivner wrote:

 I need some feedback from the collective.  I am looking for a 
 backhaul radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at 
 this location. It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 
 meg full or 100 meg half duplex. I would like this solution to be 
 under $8K or so. 5.3 Ghz is pretty open here. Does a solution exist? 
 I can lay fiber for about $12K or so. I am considering doing that but 
 I think laying fiber for my main connection when I am a fixed 
 broadband wireless provider sends the wrong message to my potential 
 customers when Charter is going all over town selling fiber 
 connections. I welcome your feedback.
 Scriv




-- 
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17

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Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-21 Thread George
Money wise you may be right, not sure of the entire situation that john 
is involved with.


But the focus today is on fiber. And how the community you serve 
perceives your company is very important.


We talked about fiber in 2001 and today people still ask us when the 
fiber is going to be deployed.
Lately our City has been doing telecommunications studies and fiber is 
the key word.


Everyone who studies the future of broadband and connectivity comes to 
the conclusion that fiber is the technology that has the most potential 
in terms of potential to keep up with and surpass any thing that comes 
down the pike.


When everyone was copper a lot of us isps were  pioneering wireless, now 
that wireless is the hot topic, we need to keep our minds open on what 
is available to deploy and fiber is the other option.


In Johns case, which is similar to mine, Charter is rolling out fiber 
builds.


They are leap frogging ahead.

Charter and Telco is our competition and we have to consider our future 
when considering what we deploy today and what our long term investments 
are.


I believe our initial fiber deployment is the biggest hurdle.

I myself am working towards a fiber build out to jump ahead of what is 
coming down the pike.


I am not saying the end of wireless is in sight, I am saying we need to 
mature our networks to what the future demands will require.


My opinions.

George



Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
Agreed, but if you can do it for 2 grand why spend 12?  If the ebay 
radios are reliable, then skip the fiber in my opinion.  Might as well 
take the 10 grand that is left over and install another 25 subs.  ;)


George wrote:


I do not believe you laying fiber is at all a bad sign to your customers.
You have been on the cutting edge of technology with wireless, why 
would you not do the fiber to continue on with your cutting edge 
technology deployment.


It almost sounds like you believe wireless is better than fiber, but 
we all know fiber/wireless is the end game.


If you are fiber and wireless, you are the cutting edge leader.

My opinion.

George



John Scrivner wrote:

I need some feedback from the collective.  I am looking for a 
backhaul radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at 
this location. It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 
meg full or 100 meg half duplex. I would like this solution to be 
under $8K or so. 5.3 Ghz is pretty open here. Does a solution exist? 
I can lay fiber for about $12K or so. I am considering doing that but 
I think laying fiber for my main connection when I am a fixed 
broadband wireless provider sends the wrong message to my potential 
customers when Charter is going all over town selling fiber 
connections. I welcome your feedback.

Scriv








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RE: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-20 Thread G.Villarini
John ,

Youre best and cheap option here is a 38 ghz lic. Backhaul.  For around
$1000 or less you can buy the whole DS3 link with antennas, youll need to
buy a pair of DS3 to Ethernet converters if you want Ethernet (around $1500
or less for the pair).  The license lease is around $500 anually

This will give you a full duplex 45 mbps link with a 1 - 2 ms round trip
delay

Gino A. Villarini, 
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.767.7466

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:09 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

I need some feedback from the collective.  I am looking for a backhaul 
radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at this 
location. It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 meg full 
or 100 meg half duplex. I would like this solution to be under $8K or 
so. 5.3 Ghz is pretty open here. Does a solution exist? I can lay fiber 
for about $12K or so. I am considering doing that but I think laying 
fiber for my main connection when I am a fixed broadband wireless 
provider sends the wrong message to my potential customers when Charter 
is going all over town selling fiber connections. I welcome your feedback.
Scriv

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RE: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-20 Thread Cliff Leboeuf
Ditto!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of G.Villarini
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 5:36 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

John ,

Youre best and cheap option here is a 38 ghz lic. Backhaul.  For around
$1000 or less you can buy the whole DS3 link with antennas, youll need
to
buy a pair of DS3 to Ethernet converters if you want Ethernet (around
$1500
or less for the pair).  The license lease is around $500 anually

This will give you a full duplex 45 mbps link with a 1 - 2 ms round trip
delay

Gino A. Villarini, 
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.767.7466

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:09 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

I need some feedback from the collective.  I am looking for a backhaul 
radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at this 
location. It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 meg full

or 100 meg half duplex. I would like this solution to be under $8K or 
so. 5.3 Ghz is pretty open here. Does a solution exist? I can lay fiber 
for about $12K or so. I am considering doing that but I think laying 
fiber for my main connection when I am a fixed broadband wireless 
provider sends the wrong message to my potential customers when Charter 
is going all over town selling fiber connections. I welcome your
feedback.
Scriv

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Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-20 Thread Travis Johnson
No, we get full speed on this link. 44.5mbps in each direction at the 
same time using Mikrotik to test.


Travis
Microserv

Tom DeReggi wrote:


Travis,

That is the one I was referring to (when I reference YDI ElinkII or 
was it CX) before it evolved to the current product line. Are you 
getting full 45 mbps? I heard you could only get around 30 mbps real 
thoughput.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 12:20 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?



Hi,

We have used a Terabridge 5345 (now Proxim) and have been very happy. 
45mbps full duplex, 10/100 ethernet, external antenna connectors, web 
and snmp management, 2ms latency (even at full load), etc. The 5345 
is 5.3ghz and the 5845 is 5.8ghz. The only issue will be the price... 
brand new they are around $9k plus antennas.


Travis
Microserv

John Scrivner wrote:

I need some feedback from the collective.  I am looking for a 
backhaul radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at 
this location. It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 
meg full or 100 meg half duplex. I would like this solution to be 
under $8K or so. 5.3 Ghz is pretty open here. Does a solution exist? 
I can lay fiber for about $12K or so. I am considering doing that 
but I think laying fiber for my main connection when I am a fixed 
broadband wireless provider sends the wrong message to my potential 
customers when Charter is going all over town selling fiber 
connections. I welcome your feedback.

Scriv



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Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-20 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Anytime the budget allows it I run wires.  Wireless is great but there's no 
guarantee of service as it's unlicensed.  Yes we can do a very good job by 
buying good gear and being smart about the design etc.  But.


Also, anytime you can use wires you free up valuable spectrum for ptmp 
systems and that's where we really shine eh?


Having said that I'd look at some of the FSO options.  I've cc'd the boys at 
Plaintree Systems to see if they can help you out.


If you want to get fancy with some switches etc. you could always run a pair 
of Airaya links and have almost 40 megs full duplex (one system sending and 
one rec.).


Proxim has gear that'll do what you ask, but who wants them these days?

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 9:08 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?


I need some feedback from the collective.  I am looking for a backhaul 
radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at this location. 
It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 meg full or 100 meg 
half duplex. I would like this solution to be under $8K or so. 5.3 Ghz is 
pretty open here. Does a solution exist? I can lay fiber for about $12K or 
so. I am considering doing that but I think laying fiber for my main 
connection when I am a fixed broadband wireless provider sends the wrong 
message to my potential customers when Charter is going all over town 
selling fiber connections. I welcome your feedback.

Scriv



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Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-20 Thread Travis Johnson
Search on ebay for 38ghz. There are quite a few Pcom complete systems 
for $600-$800 with antennas. Then you need a DS3 to ethernet converter 
(like mentioned). Those are $800 for each side. Then you have to have a 
ROCK SOLID mounting point on each side. The beamwidth on 38ghz with 2ft 
dishes is like 1 degree. Maximum distance (per spec) is 2 miles.


Travis
Microserv

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:


$1000 per LINK?  How?

Heck, I could even justify some of that around here!
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Cliff Leboeuf 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 5:24 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?


Ditto!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of G.Villarini
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 5:36 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

John ,

Youre best and cheap option here is a 38 ghz lic. Backhaul.  For around
$1000 or less you can buy the whole DS3 link with antennas, youll need
to
buy a pair of DS3 to Ethernet converters if you want Ethernet (around
$1500
or less for the pair).  The license lease is around $500 anually

This will give you a full duplex 45 mbps link with a 1 - 2 ms round trip
delay

Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.767.7466

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:09 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

I need some feedback from the collective.  I am looking for a backhaul 
radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at this 
location. It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 meg full


or 100 meg half duplex. I would like this solution to be under $8K or 
so. 5.3 Ghz is pretty open here. Does a solution exist? I can lay 
fiber for about $12K or so. I am considering doing that but I think 
laying fiber for my main connection when I am a fixed broadband 
wireless provider sends the wrong message to my potential customers 
when Charter is going all over town selling fiber connections. I 
welcome your

feedback.
Scriv



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Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-20 Thread Dylan Oliver
On 12/20/05, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A.OK.I've watch for them some but never seen any actually show up.

I see you're going for one now! Good luck bidding.

Best,-- Dylan OliverPrimaverity, LLC
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RE: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-20 Thread Jason Lee
Hello John, please let me know if I can help you in any way.

You can visit our website for product information:

www.plaintree.com

-Original Message-
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: December 20, 2005 11:08 AM
To: WISPA General List
Cc: Jason Lee
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

Anytime the budget allows it I run wires.  Wireless is great but there's no 
guarantee of service as it's unlicensed.  Yes we can do a very good job by 
buying good gear and being smart about the design etc.  But.

Also, anytime you can use wires you free up valuable spectrum for ptmp 
systems and that's where we really shine eh?

Having said that I'd look at some of the FSO options.  I've cc'd the boys at

Plaintree Systems to see if they can help you out.

If you want to get fancy with some switches etc. you could always run a pair

of Airaya links and have almost 40 megs full duplex (one system sending and 
one rec.).

Proxim has gear that'll do what you ask, but who wants them these days?

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 9:08 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?


I need some feedback from the collective.  I am looking for a backhaul 
radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at this location. 
It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 meg full or 100 meg 
half duplex. I would like this solution to be under $8K or so. 5.3 Ghz is 
pretty open here. Does a solution exist? I can lay fiber for about $12K or 
so. I am considering doing that but I think laying fiber for my main 
connection when I am a fixed broadband wireless provider sends the wrong 
message to my potential customers when Charter is going all over town 
selling fiber connections. I welcome your feedback.
 Scriv



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RE: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-20 Thread Kurt Fankhauser
60ghz

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 9:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

For around $1000 a month I think you can get a 1 gbps wireless link from

Gigabeam, that would work for that distance I think.
Atlas has been working great for us, using 5.3 for that short distance,
you 
likely can get the full 54 mbps. We are getting about 36 mbps throughout
for 
a 14 mile link we have live. But then again that does not meet the spec
you 
are asking for of 50mbps full duplex.
You probably can use one of the Tsunami radios that bond several 5.3 
channels, or the YDI ElinkIIs that I think use double channels (FDD).
None 
of these will give you the FULL 50 mbps Full duplex you are asking for 
though. I think they peak out around 30 mbps full Duplex real
throughput.
Because your range is so close, maybe you should jump up to 23 Ghz?
Although 
you probably can't pull that off for 8 grand.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 12:08 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?


I need some feedback from the collective.  I am looking for a backhaul 
radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at this
location. 
It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 meg full or 100
meg 
half duplex. I would like this solution to be under $8K or so. 5.3 Ghz
is 
pretty open here. Does a solution exist? I can lay fiber for about $12K
or 
so. I am considering doing that but I think laying fiber for my main 
connection when I am a fixed broadband wireless provider sends the
wrong 
message to my potential customers when Charter is going all over town 
selling fiber connections. I welcome your feedback.
 Scriv

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Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-20 Thread Brian Rohrbacher

This help?
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bssbrftog=1fstype=1from=R10satitle=38+ghzsacat=-1%26catref%3DC6bs=Searchsargn=-1%26saslc%3D2sadis=200fpos=ZIP%2FPostalftrt=1ftrv=1saprclo=saprchi=fsop=1fsoo=1

I ebayed 38 ghz
Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

A.  OK.  I've watch for them some but never seen any actually show 
up.


Thanks,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?


Search on ebay for 38ghz. There are quite a few Pcom complete 
systems for $600-$800 with antennas. Then you need a DS3 to ethernet 
converter (like mentioned). Those are $800 for each side. Then you 
have to have a ROCK SOLID mounting point on each side. The beamwidth 
on 38ghz with 2ft dishes is like 1 degree. Maximum distance (per 
spec) is 2 miles.


Travis
Microserv

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:


$1000 per LINK?  How?

Heck, I could even justify some of that around here!
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own 
wisp!

64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Cliff Leboeuf 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 5:24 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?


Ditto!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of G.Villarini
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 5:36 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

John ,

Youre best and cheap option here is a 38 ghz lic. Backhaul.  For around
$1000 or less you can buy the whole DS3 link with antennas, youll need
to
buy a pair of DS3 to Ethernet converters if you want Ethernet (around
$1500
or less for the pair).  The license lease is around $500 anually

This will give you a full duplex 45 mbps link with a 1 - 2 ms round 
trip

delay

Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.767.7466

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:09 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

I need some feedback from the collective.  I am looking for a 
backhaul radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at 
this location. It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 
meg full


or 100 meg half duplex. I would like this solution to be under $8K 
or so. 5.3 Ghz is pretty open here. Does a solution exist? I can lay 
fiber for about $12K or so. I am considering doing that but I think 
laying fiber for my main connection when I am a fixed broadband 
wireless provider sends the wrong message to my potential customers 
when Charter is going all over town selling fiber connections. I 
welcome your

feedback.
Scriv



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www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17

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Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-20 Thread Bob Moldashel

He can do a Proxim GigaLink for $10K.  Fiber interface, 1.25Gb.

-B-



Tom DeReggi wrote:

For around $1000 a month I think you can get a 1 gbps wireless link 
from Gigabeam, that would work for that distance I think.
Atlas has been working great for us, using 5.3 for that short 
distance, you likely can get the full 54 mbps. We are getting about 36 
mbps throughout for a 14 mile link we have live. But then again that 
does not meet the spec you are asking for of 50mbps full duplex.
You probably can use one of the Tsunami radios that bond several 5.3 
channels, or the YDI ElinkIIs that I think use double channels (FDD). 
None of these will give you the FULL 50 mbps Full duplex you are 
asking for though. I think they peak out around 30 mbps full Duplex 
real throughput.
Because your range is so close, maybe you should jump up to 23 Ghz? 
Although you probably can't pull that off for 8 grand.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 12:08 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?


I need some feedback from the collective.  I am looking for a 
backhaul radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at 
this location. It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 
meg full or 100 meg half duplex. I would like this solution to be 
under $8K or so. 5.3 Ghz is pretty open here. Does a solution exist? 
I can lay fiber for about $12K or so. I am considering doing that but 
I think laying fiber for my main connection when I am a fixed 
broadband wireless provider sends the wrong message to my potential 
customers when Charter is going all over town selling fiber 
connections. I welcome your feedback.

Scriv

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Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-20 Thread Tom DeReggi

Who can do one for $10K?

However, isn't Proxim's gear 60 Ghz, right?
There is a big difference between the capabilties of 60Ghz vs 70Ghz of 
Gigabeam.

60Ghz is effected much larger by Oxygen absorbion.
so...
60Ghz- reliable to half mile.
70Ghz - reliable to 2.5 miles.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?



He can do a Proxim GigaLink for $10K.  Fiber interface, 1.25Gb.

-B-



Tom DeReggi wrote:

For around $1000 a month I think you can get a 1 gbps wireless link from 
Gigabeam, that would work for that distance I think.
Atlas has been working great for us, using 5.3 for that short distance, 
you likely can get the full 54 mbps. We are getting about 36 mbps 
throughout for a 14 mile link we have live. But then again that does not 
meet the spec you are asking for of 50mbps full duplex.
You probably can use one of the Tsunami radios that bond several 5.3 
channels, or the YDI ElinkIIs that I think use double channels (FDD). 
None of these will give you the FULL 50 mbps Full duplex you are asking 
for though. I think they peak out around 30 mbps full Duplex real 
throughput.
Because your range is so close, maybe you should jump up to 23 Ghz? 
Although you probably can't pull that off for 8 grand.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 12:08 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?


I need some feedback from the collective.  I am looking for a backhaul 
radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at this 
location. It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 meg full 
or 100 meg half duplex. I would like this solution to be under $8K or 
so. 5.3 Ghz is pretty open here. Does a solution exist? I can lay fiber 
for about $12K or so. I am considering doing that but I think laying 
fiber for my main connection when I am a fixed broadband wireless 
provider sends the wrong message to my potential customers when Charter 
is going all over town selling fiber connections. I welcome your 
feedback.

Scriv

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Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-20 Thread Bob Moldashel

Tom DeReggi wrote:


Who can do one for $10K?

However, isn't Proxim's gear 60 Ghz, right?
There is a big difference between the capabilties of 60Ghz vs 70Ghz of 
Gigabeam.

60Ghz is effected much larger by Oxygen absorbion.
so...
60Ghz- reliable to half mile.
70Ghz - reliable to 2.5 miles.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband



Agreed...But I thought John said 1500' ???

And how many do you want???  :-)

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-20 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
I would second that- you can usually find good quality ( stratex for  
example ) used backhauls on ebay for around a few grand.


-

Jeff

On Dec 20, 2005, at 3:35 AM, G.Villarini wrote:


John ,

Youre best and cheap option here is a 38 ghz lic. Backhaul.  For  
around
$1000 or less you can buy the whole DS3 link with antennas, youll  
need to
buy a pair of DS3 to Ethernet converters if you want Ethernet  
(around $1500

or less for the pair).  The license lease is around $500 anually

This will give you a full duplex 45 mbps link with a 1 - 2 ms round  
trip

delay

Gino A. Villarini,
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.767.7466

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:09 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

I need some feedback from the collective.  I am looking for a backhaul
radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at this
location. It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 meg  
full

or 100 meg half duplex. I would like this solution to be under $8K or
so. 5.3 Ghz is pretty open here. Does a solution exist? I can lay  
fiber

for about $12K or so. I am considering doing that but I think laying
fiber for my main connection when I am a fixed broadband wireless
provider sends the wrong message to my potential customers when  
Charter
is going all over town selling fiber connections. I welcome your  
feedback.

Scriv

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Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-19 Thread Travis Johnson

Hi,

We have used a Terabridge 5345 (now Proxim) and have been very happy. 
45mbps full duplex, 10/100 ethernet, external antenna connectors, web 
and snmp management, 2ms latency (even at full load), etc. The 5345 is 
5.3ghz and the 5845 is 5.8ghz. The only issue will be the price... brand 
new they are around $9k plus antennas.


Travis
Microserv

John Scrivner wrote:

I need some feedback from the collective.  I am looking for a backhaul 
radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at this 
location. It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 meg 
full or 100 meg half duplex. I would like this solution to be under 
$8K or so. 5.3 Ghz is pretty open here. Does a solution exist? I can 
lay fiber for about $12K or so. I am considering doing that but I 
think laying fiber for my main connection when I am a fixed broadband 
wireless provider sends the wrong message to my potential customers 
when Charter is going all over town selling fiber connections. I 
welcome your feedback.

Scriv



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Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-19 Thread Tom DeReggi
For around $1000 a month I think you can get a 1 gbps wireless link from 
Gigabeam, that would work for that distance I think.
Atlas has been working great for us, using 5.3 for that short distance, you 
likely can get the full 54 mbps. We are getting about 36 mbps throughout for 
a 14 mile link we have live. But then again that does not meet the spec you 
are asking for of 50mbps full duplex.
You probably can use one of the Tsunami radios that bond several 5.3 
channels, or the YDI ElinkIIs that I think use double channels (FDD). None 
of these will give you the FULL 50 mbps Full duplex you are asking for 
though. I think they peak out around 30 mbps full Duplex real throughput.
Because your range is so close, maybe you should jump up to 23 Ghz? Although 
you probably can't pull that off for 8 grand.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 12:08 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?


I need some feedback from the collective.  I am looking for a backhaul 
radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at this location. 
It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 meg full or 100 meg 
half duplex. I would like this solution to be under $8K or so. 5.3 Ghz is 
pretty open here. Does a solution exist? I can lay fiber for about $12K or 
so. I am considering doing that but I think laying fiber for my main 
connection when I am a fixed broadband wireless provider sends the wrong 
message to my potential customers when Charter is going all over town 
selling fiber connections. I welcome your feedback.

Scriv

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Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-19 Thread Tom DeReggi

Travis,

That is the one I was referring to (when I reference YDI ElinkII or was it 
CX) before it evolved to the current product line. Are you getting full 45 
mbps? I heard you could only get around 30 mbps real thoughput.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 12:20 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?



Hi,

We have used a Terabridge 5345 (now Proxim) and have been very happy. 
45mbps full duplex, 10/100 ethernet, external antenna connectors, web and 
snmp management, 2ms latency (even at full load), etc. The 5345 is 5.3ghz 
and the 5845 is 5.8ghz. The only issue will be the price... brand new they 
are around $9k plus antennas.


Travis
Microserv

John Scrivner wrote:

I need some feedback from the collective.  I am looking for a backhaul 
radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at this location. 
It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 meg full or 100 meg 
half duplex. I would like this solution to be under $8K or so. 5.3 Ghz is 
pretty open here. Does a solution exist? I can lay fiber for about $12K 
or so. I am considering doing that but I think laying fiber for my main 
connection when I am a fixed broadband wireless provider sends the wrong 
message to my potential customers when Charter is going all over town 
selling fiber connections. I welcome your feedback.

Scriv



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RE: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?

2005-12-19 Thread CHUCK PROFITO
Why not a laser?

 -Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent:   Monday, December 19, 2005 9:09 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject:[WISPA] Good Backhaul?

I need some feedback from the collective.  I am looking for a backhaul
radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at this
location. It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 meg full
or 100 meg half duplex. I would like this solution to be under $8K or
so. 5.3 Ghz is pretty open here. Does a solution exist? I can lay fiber
for about $12K or so. I am considering doing that but I think laying
fiber for my main connection when I am a fixed broadband wireless
provider sends the wrong message to my potential customers when Charter
is going all over town selling fiber connections. I welcome your feedback.
Scriv

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