RE: [WSG] Dean Jackson presentation url
Many thanks Amit I'm glad not everyone was a slack as me and someone had the sense to write it down. Roger -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Amit Karmakar Sent: Saturday, 4 September 2004 4:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Dean Jackson presentation url There you go http://www.w3.org/2004/Talks/dj-we04-edugov/ On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 15:39:04 +1000, Web Usability [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Did anyone write down the url for the excellent presentation Dean Jackson gave at the WE04 session on Thursday Sept 2. Thanks Roger ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Regards, Amit Karmakar http://www.karmakars.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dean Jackson presentation url
Roger, I have added them on my blog here http://www.karmakars.com/weblog/archives/2004/09/03/web_essentials_group I don't have the link to Roger's Presentation though. On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 17:21:48 +1000, Web Usability [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Many thanks Amit I'm glad not everyone was a slack as me and someone had the sense to write it down. Roger -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Amit Karmakar Sent: Saturday, 4 September 2004 4:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Dean Jackson presentation url There you go http://www.w3.org/2004/Talks/dj-we04-edugov/ On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 15:39:04 +1000, Web Usability [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Did anyone write down the url for the excellent presentation Dean Jackson gave at the WE04 session on Thursday Sept 2. Thanks Roger ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Regards, Amit Karmakar http://www.karmakars.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Regards, Amit Karmakar http://www.karmakars.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] commonly used order of styles within a css class
For ordering statements I usually start with broad statements and then get narrower. Then within this list I sort by html statements and then my IDs and classes as they fall in the page from top to bottom. As for selectors I go in this order positioning display margin padding background (minus color)(image, position, repeat) text (family, size, weight, then any extras like line height) text color background color I don't know why but I like to see any color information at the end, grouped together. Call me quirky! :) Chris On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 15:19:12 +1200, Sean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know if there is a common way of listing styles in CSS? I don't mean the order of a:hover a: visited, or the order of specification. I am thinking more of some logical order that would be helpful to anyone else working on stylesheets I have created. For example, perhaps the font and inline information is first, the block, padding and margin information next, and then the positioning. In the same way that naming conventions of CSS classes and IDs is helpful, is anyone aware of any logical or consistent order in which the styles are displayed in CSS? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] FireFox - Built In CSS Error Handler?
Aww thanks. I must not be using the DOM inspector properly since I have never seen any CSS or any CSS errors displayed inside there... How do you view the CSS of an item? Mine just shows the text and blinks a border around it etc... Cheers Neerav wrote: Tools - DOM inspector Tools - Javascript Console ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Browsing without images
I just realised there is a problem with using css to insert images such as styling a h1 element to show a logo. Many rural users browse with images off to conserve bandwidth, however it's (in my assumption) not likely that css will be turned off too. If this is the case nothing will show and the user may not be able to determine the subject of the page or the website. My question is what (in an accessibility point of view) would be the best solution. Is there a way you can determine if images are turned off and therefor render a different stylesheet, is there a hack that can be used or should one just provide a text only version, that still uses stylesheets but doesn't insert images? Marc. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Browsing without images
Have you tested this Marc? I had assumed that if images were switched off, it wouldn't matter if they are in the CSS, that the browser would still ignore them? Would be good to know. Natalie On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 21:51:36 +1000, Marc Greenstock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just realised there is a problem with using css to insert images such as styling a h1 element to show a logo. Many rural users browse with images off to conserve bandwidth, however it's (in my assumption) not likely that css will be turned off too. If this is the case nothing will show and the user may not be able to determine the subject of the page or the website. My question is what (in an accessibility point of view) would be the best solution. Is there a way you can determine if images are turned off and therefor render a different stylesheet, is there a hack that can be used or should one just provide a text only version, that still uses stylesheets but doesn't insert images? Marc. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- -- Freelance Website Designer/Developer www.pixelkitty.net www.ausblog.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] commonly used order of styles within a css class
If you think about it, ordering IDs in the order that they appear in the HTML goes against the grain of XHTML/CSS separation of content and style. If you change the position of an object in the HTML, then you have to change it in the CSS, otherwise your order becomes meaningless. The best way is to have an order independent of the HTML content, such as alphabetical. -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com --- Brian Duchek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm 100% with Andy on this one. My coding style (pun intended) usually falls into the source ordered approach (i.e. the ID selectors will be found in the CSS in the same order that they appear in the HTML document). I'll do grouping of helper classes as well, as I use them as sort of utilities. Within each class or selector statement, I'll let my editor (DW or Topstyle) place them for me. At most it ends up being 10 short lines of text, and easy enough to scan quickly and identify what's what. I do tend to put any hacks or unusual approaches at the bottom of the definition. Cheers! Brian Duchek www.inquiline.com On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 10:33:23 +0100, Andy Budd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sean wrote: Does anyone know if there is a common way of listing styles in CSS? I don't mean the order of a:hover a: visited, or the order of specification. I am thinking more of some logical order that would be helpful to anyone else working on stylesheets I have created. Are you meaning in a micro or macro sense. i.e. how to structure sets of statement within a stylesheet or how to structure a set of declarations within a statement? If it's the former there tend to be a couple of main ways. One is to group statements into logical types, such as all layout goes in one place, all text stuff in another. However I personally break this info into separate stylesheets as I find it easier to manage. Another popular way is to structure stylesheets based on selector type, so you may have all element selectors first, then all id's and lastly all classes. I can see the logic behind this but it's not something I favour. The way I tend to arrange statements is by position in the flow of the document. So I'll have all universal statements at the top, then statements relating to the header, nav, content and finally footer statements at the bottom. This works well for me, but I do often find that I'll need to add a new statement later that's the same of similar to one I already have. Rather than taking the original statement out and putting it up top with the universal statements, I tend just to tack a new selector on. This means that sometimes statements aren't always exactly matching the flow of the document. This is fine if you've only got one person working on the CSS, but would get confusing if you've got multiple people using the same file. As for arranging declarations within a statement, because statements don't tend to be so long, I generally don't have a format. I simply put them in the order I write them in. Andy Budd http://www.message.uk.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Brian Duchek =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c: 847.809.2140 w: www.inquiline.com =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Browsing without images
You just realised it, but this has been a huge part of the whole image replacement discussion from the beginning. http://www.google.com/search?q=accessibility+image+replacement+css No, there's no way to test if images are turned off. Use techniques that don't actually hide the original text. but just cover it (I lost track which one of the *IR techniques does). If all else fails, go back to tried and tested stick and image in your source code. If it's a heading, you can still wrap the image tag like so: h1img src=... alt=your heading text //h1 Patrick _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Browsing without images
just checked the various IR methods. your best bet looks like Gilder/Levin and/or the Shea enhancement http://www.mezzoblue.com/tests/revised-image-replacement/ Patrick _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] commonly used order of styles within a css class
Sorry Cameron, but I think that you're taking it a step too far here. At the end of the day, those who work with the CSS can order it any way they please and that works for them. This is all about personal preference and working styles, and separation of content and style has nothing to do with it. IMHO, anyway. Patrick Cameron Adams wrote: If you think about it, ordering IDs in the order that they appear in the HTML goes against the grain of XHTML/CSS separation of content and style. If you change the position of an object in the HTML, then you have to change it in the CSS, otherwise your order becomes meaningless. The best way is to have an order independent of the HTML content, such as alphabetical. -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com --- Brian Duchek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm 100% with Andy on this one. My coding style (pun intended) usually falls into the source ordered approach (i.e. the ID selectors will be found in the CSS in the same order that they appear in the HTML document). I'll do grouping of helper classes as well, as I use them as sort of utilities. Within each class or selector statement, I'll let my editor (DW or Topstyle) place them for me. At most it ends up being 10 short lines of text, and easy enough to scan quickly and identify what's what. I do tend to put any hacks or unusual approaches at the bottom of the definition. Cheers! Brian Duchek www.inquiline.com On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 10:33:23 +0100, Andy Budd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sean wrote: Does anyone know if there is a common way of listing styles in CSS? I don't mean the order of a:hover a: visited, or the order of specification. I am thinking more of some logical order that would be helpful to anyone else working on stylesheets I have created. Are you meaning in a micro or macro sense. i.e. how to structure sets of statement within a stylesheet or how to structure a set of declarations within a statement? If it's the former there tend to be a couple of main ways. One is to group statements into logical types, such as all layout goes in one place, all text stuff in another. However I personally break this info into separate stylesheets as I find it easier to manage. Another popular way is to structure stylesheets based on selector type, so you may have all element selectors first, then all id's and lastly all classes. I can see the logic behind this but it's not something I favour. The way I tend to arrange statements is by position in the flow of the document. So I'll have all universal statements at the top, then statements relating to the header, nav, content and finally footer statements at the bottom. This works well for me, but I do often find that I'll need to add a new statement later that's the same of similar to one I already have. Rather than taking the original statement out and putting it up top with the universal statements, I tend just to tack a new selector on. This means that sometimes statements aren't always exactly matching the flow of the document. This is fine if you've only got one person working on the CSS, but would get confusing if you've got multiple people using the same file. As for arranging declarations within a statement, because statements don't tend to be so long, I generally don't have a format. I simply put them in the order I write them in. Andy Budd http://www.message.uk.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Brian Duchek =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c: 847.809.2140 w: www.inquiline.com =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- _ re·dux
Re: [WSG] commonly used order of styles within a css class
To clarify my previous message: what I mean is Cameron Adams wrote: If you change the position of an object in the HTML, then you have to change it in the CSS, otherwise your order becomes meaningless. Yes, it becomes meaningless in that it makes it more convoluted to work with, *but* it does not mean that it won't work. There is no dependency here between the order in which it appears in the XHTML and the CSS (unless you have deep dark cascade dependencies going on where the order is indeed important). Patrick _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] FireFox - Built In CSS Error Handler?
Aww thanks. I must not be using the DOM inspector properly since I have never seen any CSS or any CSS errors displayed inside there... How do you view the CSS of an item? Mine just shows the text and blinks a border around it etc... The DOM inspector doesn't validate stuff. Not sure about how it will display CSS errors either. To see the stuff though.. When you click on something and the border blinks, you click on the icon next to where it says Object - DOM mode -- that will bring up a list of possible data displays. Play around with it. Ryan Christie ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Interview markup?
What is the most semantic way to markup an interview? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Interview markup?
Sage Olson wrote: What is the most semantic way to markup an interview? I believe it must be cite/cite and for bigger phrases, you can useblockquote title= /blockquote Correct me someone if I'm wrong. -- Lennart Fylling Aalesund Norway ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Interview markup?
Oops, sorry I wasn't more specific I meant a large interview that takes up an entire article, something like this: http://www.macthemes.net/articles/insider/000189.php (Note: I'm not a staff member or anything of MacThemes.) They've used bold tags to indicate the interviewer's questions, and regular text to indicate the interviewee's answer. However, I'd like a more semantic way of doing it, if there is one (I'm not sure if definition lists would be overkill, but everybody seems to be using them for just about everything these days). -Sage On Sep 4, 2004, at 1:37 PM, Lennart Fylling wrote: Sage Olson wrote: What is the most semantic way to markup an interview? I believe it must be cite/cite and for bigger phrases, you can useblockquote title= /blockquote Correct me someone if I'm wrong. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Interview markup?
I'd go for definition lists, overkill or not. dl dtQ/dt ddA/dd /dl Failing that, the question could be in headings h1interview/h1 h2Q1/h2 p.../p h2Q2/h2 p.../p Patrick Sage Olson wrote: Oops, sorry I wasn't more specific I meant a large interview that takes up an entire article, something like this: http://www.macthemes.net/articles/insider/000189.php (Note: I'm not a staff member or anything of MacThemes.) They've used bold tags to indicate the interviewer's questions, and regular text to indicate the interviewee's answer. However, I'd like a more semantic way of doing it, if there is one (I'm not sure if definition lists would be overkill, but everybody seems to be using them for just about everything these days). -Sage On Sep 4, 2004, at 1:37 PM, Lennart Fylling wrote: Sage Olson wrote: What is the most semantic way to markup an interview? I believe it must be cite/cite and for bigger phrases, you can useblockquote title= /blockquote Correct me someone if I'm wrong. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- _ redux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Interview markup?
Heading tags are not appropriate nor semantically correct. cite is used for quoting a citation from a book, article or other piece of work referenced in an article. This is more adeptly used in reference articles. dl is the most appropriate method as it not only visually separates the question from the answer, but it also indicates that the text in the definition actually answers or defines the question or term in the definition type. I hope this helps. Lee Roberts http://www.roserockdesign.com http://www.applepiecart.com -- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.262 / Virus Database: 264.7.7 - Release Date: 9/3/2004 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Interview markup?
The WSG ten question interviews are marked up as Definition lists: http://webstandardsgroup.org/features/ More on definition lists here: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/definition/ Russ What is the most semantic way to markup an interview? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] commonly used order of styles within a css class
On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 15:19:12 +1200, Sean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know if there is a common way of listing styles in CSS? ... For example, perhaps the font and inline information is first, the block, padding and margin information next, and then the positioning. Sean, I've seen more styles of styling than there are stylers! My personal preference is to step from properties that are most likely to affect other elements on the page to properties that are least likely to do so: - first properties of position visibility (position, display, visibility, z-index...) - then properties that affect dimension (height, width, margins, borders, font-size...) - finally properties that don't affect dimension (text-align, background, color...) I hold to this convention loosely; I also find it convenient to group related properties together, for example z-index with position and all the font properties together whether or not they affect box dimension, and I put padding immediately below margins because I tend to work with them simultaneously when I'm tweaking a page. Whatever system you develop, being consistent over time will help you quickly locate properties you need to adjust, and will help other programmers (and your future self!) to modify your code more easily down the road. Your own style of styling should make natural sense to yourself so you can move around in your files intuitively. Personally, I'd never sequence properties alphabetically because I suspect I'd constantly interrupting my thought processes of semantic and graphic organization to recall how property names are spelled -- whereas alphabetization might come as second nature to someone else with a differently wired brain. Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] commonly used order of styles within a css class
what about the mozilla way http://www.mozilla.org/contribute/writing/markup ? -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy Mobile: +61 (0)403 8000 27 http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav Sean wrote: Does anyone know if there is a common way of listing styles in CSS? I don't mean the order of a:hover a: visited, or the order of specification. I am thinking more of some logical order that would be helpful to anyone else working on stylesheets I have created. For example, perhaps the font and inline information is first, the block, padding and margin information next, and then the positioning. In the same way that naming conventions of CSS classes and IDs is helpful, is anyone aware of any logical or consistent order in which the styles are displayed in CSS? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] just in from the great out-there
G'day, web-standard groupies :) Here I am! blushes hotly Yep, I'm new to this group. I've been on CSS-discuss for some time, which I find pretty heavy going because it's a busy list. I'm also very new to CSS. I'm a Mac StyleMaster user, have previously also used PageSpinner but now I need to be able to to write and edit Unicode html pages, I haven't been able to find a html editor (SubEthaEdit is an excellent _text_ editor) with some time-saving tools, that support Unicode fully. Thus my growing interest in standards: Unicode has been the standard, or a standard, for quite some time, but it is very patchily supported, if at all in many areas. For example, Mac OSX supports Unicode fully but that's not much use if the vast majority of applications running on it don't, including those written by Mac for the system. I'd be interested in discussing the Unicode (webpages and general) issue with anyone who is also dealing with it. Generally speaking, I'll be the clueless newbie in the corner who has to have her PDA taken away from her during discussions because she plays games when she gets lost in the flow of data. :) However, I bet I'll learn a lot in such a clueful bunch. Thanks for making this discussion, and site, available. from Clytie, language lecturer, Vietnamese translator and general inquiring mind (yes, that tiny thing in the jar) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Interview markup?
What is the most semantic way to markup an interview? I've been thinking about this a bit. If I did want to find the _most semantic_ way to markup an interview (I can't imagine thinking about it if we hadn't been discussing it though ;-), why wouldn't a paragraph with a meaningful class be the best solution (such as the speaker or whether it's a question or answer)? I mean, a definition list is really for definitions, and headings are really meant for, well, headings. Given that there is no element in XHTML specifically for interview questions and answers, a paragraph is the most applicable element that is still semantically (meaningfully) correct - we just want to give it a bit more meaning with some well-chosen classes. For example, a paragraph could simply be given a class corresponding to the person speaking (class=interviewee or class=DarrinHinch) or even two classes to be more meaningful (class=interviewer statement or class=interviewer question (aside: i've seen this in XML but not sure if two values for a class is actually correct in XHTML?)) Anyway, that being said, not sure that it matters too much :-) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
