Re: [WSG] University textbook or other resources?
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RE: [WSG] A little help with a charity site please
Click the link below join this SIZZLING HOT and Brand NEW PAYING Program ! http://www.kbcmail.com/?uid=188476 I won't go on to explain how you'll earn because it's all mentioned very clearly on the site itself. Just remember DO NOT WASTE TIME ! Hurry join it now, or else your friends will join through someone else you'll miss out on 2$ per friend ! And get the steps right. 1. Join for a KBCmail.com email Address. 2. Get your KBCmail.com ID number. That's it. You can make 1000's of $$$ in no time !!! Enjoy this Diwali with Y! India Click here
Re: [WSG] Horizontal CSS based Navigation
Can anyone point me in the right direction for a CSS based horizontal navigation using UL's and LI's, where the first Level of nav uses images!? Regards Jack Bennie A good place to start would be at http://css.maxdesign.com.au/index.htm , where you click the 'Listamatic' option. Even though not all of them is about images, you can easily edit the code to insert your own images! :-) Bernard
Re: [WSG] A little help with a charity site please
Mani, This group is not an outlet for you to make money. Besides, one would assume that a group of web designers would have their email addresses sorted out already. However, if you require a designer to overhaul that nasty website, you've come to the right place. Up late and tired, ~pixelpete mani naidu wrote: Click the link below join this SIZZLING HOT and Brand NEW PAYING Program ! http://www.kbcmail.com/?uid=188476 I won't go on to explain how you'll earn because it's all mentioned very clearly on the site itself. Just remember DO NOT WASTE TIME ! Hurry join it now, or else your friends will join through someone else you'll miss out on 2$ per friend ! And get the steps right. 1. Join for a KBCmail.com email Address. 2. Get your KBCmail.com ID number. That's it. You can make 1000's of $$$ in no time !!! Enjoy this Diwali with Y! India Click here http://in.promos.yahoo.com/fabmall/index.html ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG]My first take at standards and CSS did not go so well, Need Help!
Hi Everyone, Well here is my problem I am a newbie with CSS and web standards and my first take end up look crap in Firefox but "great" in IE? Also my _javascript_ Moo-FX effects not are working anywhere. I trying all day not and it drive me crazy I do not understand what is wrong with it. Here is the Temp URL: http://www.estudiomcarmona.com.ar/test/ Please help me out. Thanks Jack Geoff Pack wrote: I agree with Bert - use the start attribute and a transitional dtd. It's cleaner, more concise, and captures exactly the semantics of what you are doing. You don't need the div around the text info though. Of course you could always write out the first 39 empty list-items and hide them :) Geoff Pack Somaya Langley wrote: Hi All - I'm putting together a template for a contents list page for the National Library of Australia's online pictures delivery system. We need to start an ordered list on a page from a number other than 1, as the lists could be quite long and so will be chunked into a set per page. There are two solutions... the first, for example: ol start="40" li divtext info in here/div /li ... or, the second: ol li divnumber inserted in here from our digital content management system/div divtext info in here/div /li ... While the first would be more elegant, start is now a depricated attribute. What do people suggest? Thanks Somaya ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Character encoding mismatch
Hi Richard, Thanks for that info, the guy who runs the server here has fixed the server to run UTF-8, so no problems there. The XHTML reference was really good. I had started using the apos; XHTML tag for #39; not realising that it wouldn't work for browsers that don't read XHTML (such as IE5). Glad I got to read that one before we went live! I have now changed it to rsquo; What's your opinion on using Character Entities over Hexadecimal values. I can't seem to get a clear response on which is better. Thanks again. Paul - Original Message - From: Richard Ishida To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 6:54 PM Subject: RE: [WSG] Character encoding mismatch Thanks, Susan, for pointing to that stuff.Paul, you if you're using Apache you may also find this particularly useful:"Setting 'charset' information in .htaccess"http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-htaccess-charsetThat would allow you to continue using utf-8, which I think is a good move.Also, you may find the following useful wrt using character references:"Using character entities and NCRs"http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-escapesHope that helps,RIRichard IshidaInternationalization LeadW3Chttp://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/http://www.w3.org/International/http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/http://www.flickr.com/photos/ishida/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susanne Jäger Sent: 10 November 2005 12:21 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Character encoding mismatch Paul Collins wrote, On 10.11.2005 12:44: I thought this was the correct way to add special characters for XHTML, but what I am reading now seems to contradict this. This is the part of standards where I get a bit confused. Does anyone have any advice or know of some good articles where they explain this in simple terms?? Have a look at the material in W3Cs internationalization-Section W3C I18N Topic Index http://www.w3.org/International/resource-index.html#charset I like the Tutorial: Character sets encodings in XHTML, HTML and CSS http://www.w3.org/International/tutorials/tutorial-char-enc/#choosing At least they try to explain the rather complicated stuff for everyone. ;-) HTH Susanne -- http://sujag.de - Webentwicklung und -beratung [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lottumstr. 22, 10119 Berlin, Tel: 030 - 440 483 47 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help**
[WSG] More on character encoding
I am assuming there are other web developers in Exchange environments that might have some insight into a problem I'm having. It's standards-related, I promise. We're a company that utilizes an Exchange server for mail and scheduling. We have lots of email addresses and lots of email distribution groups. Our Net Admins have established a naming convention for distribution groups that enforces a desired sort in Outlook. Here is a recent example: %Company Code-Cross-Functional Team (Distribution Group) My problem mostly revolves around this fairly new cross-functional team naming convention. You may have noticed the problem already. The group name starts with a percent sign. That means their email address starts with a percent sign. If everyone stayed completely within Outlook for email generation, that'd be just fine...Outlook doesn't care. But webpages with mailto links that fire up a mail client, even Outlook, *do*. And cross-functional teams in our company are small enough that they want to link to their email address in simple mailto links on their various webpages. The percent sign is an escape character. On its own, a mail client (even Outlook) looks two characters beyond the percent sign and tries to figure out what character you really meant. Since in my case, this is usually %ME it's outside of the conventions for escaped characters. Outlook interprets %ME as ?. I don't believe that using a percent sign in an email address is best form. But my opinion doesn't matter. I'll need to use standards published by recognized bodies of knowledge to make my case. The W3C helps a little, calling a percent sign a reserved character not for use in URIs. IANA establishes that mailtos are indeed URIs in RFC2368. This is helpful in establishing that mailto is a URI scheme, but this RFC also suggests escaping the escape (%25) to make a percent sign. IETF in its RFC3986 suggests the same thing but reads a little more ominous about using percents. Gah! Are there any other resources people are aware of that may help me make this argument using standards rationale? Jona ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] More on character encoding
this link might help http://www.remote.org/jochen/mail/info/chars.html Charlie http://www.bartlettdesign.co.uk On 11/23/05, Jona Decker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am assuming there are other web developers in Exchange environmentsthat might have some insight into a problem I'm having. It's standards-related, I promise.We're a company that utilizes an Exchange server for mail andscheduling. We have lots of email addresses and lots of emaildistribution groups. Our Net Admins have established a naming convention for distribution groups that enforces a desired sort in Outlook. Here isa recent example:%Company Code-Cross-Functional Team (Distribution Group)My problem mostly revolves around this fairly new cross-functional team naming convention. You may have noticed the problem already. Thegroup name starts with a percent sign. That means their email addressstarts with a percent sign. If everyone stayed completely within Outlook for email generation, that'd be just fine...Outlook doesn't care. Butwebpages with mailto links that fire up a mail client, even Outlook,*do*. And cross-functional teams in our company are small enough that they want to link to their email address in simple mailto links on theirvarious webpages.The percent sign is an escape character. On its own, a mail client (evenOutlook) looks two characters beyond the percent sign and tries to figure out what character you really meant. Since in my case, this isusually %ME it's outside of the conventions for escaped characters.Outlook interprets %ME as ?.I don't believe that using a percent sign in an email address is best form. But my opinion doesn't matter. I'll need to use standardspublished by recognized bodies of knowledge to make my case. The W3Chelps a little, calling a percent sign a reserved character not for usein URIs. IANA establishes that mailtos are indeed URIs in RFC2368. This is helpful in establishing that mailto is a URI scheme, but this RFCalso suggests escaping the escape (%25) to make a percent sign. IETF inits RFC3986 suggests the same thing but reads a little more ominous about using percents. Gah! Are there any other resources people areaware of that may help me make this argument using standards rationale?Jona**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Re: University textbook or other resources?
Title: Re: University textbook or other resources? Hi everyone, New member, first post, although youll find I mostly lurk. The two books by Knowbility partners arent exactly university focused textbooks, but are very good for training in accessibility. http://www.knowbility.org/air-interactive/?content=resources Virginia ivanovitch wrote: Folks I've been asked if there are useful university-focused textbooks or other resources suitable for teaching accessible web design. So far 'Effective website development' (Darlington) and 'Principles of web site design' (Skalr) have been proposed as possible options. Thoughts? -- Virginia DeBolt Author: Integrated HTML and CSS: A Smarter, Faster Way to Learn Blog: Web Teacher Resources for Teaching Web Design: Book Reviews http://www.webteacher.ws --
Re: [WSG] More on character encoding
Jona Decker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...]Are there any other resources people are aware of that may help me make this argument using standards rationale? According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email_address the character is valid in the local part of an address according to RFC 2822. However, WCAG Checkpoint 14.1 would be appropriate if the email address will be rendered on the page at any time: 14.1 Use the clearest and simplest language appropriate for a site's content. [Priority 1] http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT/#gl-facilitate-comprehension Again, if it will be visible checkpoint 13.1 also applies: 13.1 Clearly identify the target of each link. [Priority 2] Link text should be meaningful enough to make sense when read out of context http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT/#gl-facilitate-navigation Jon Tan www.gr0w.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Horizontal CSS based Navigation
On Wed 11/23/2005 1:48 AM, Jack Bennie wrote: Can anyone point me in the right direction for a CSS based horizontal navigation using UL's and LI's, where the first Level of nav uses images!? You may want to take a look at the article Css Sprites on A List Apart. http://www.alistapart.com/articles/sprites/ It's a standards-based technique to replace image maps. --- Jonathan Bloy Web Services Librarian Edgewood College Library Madison, Wisconsin http://library.edgewood.edu winmail.dat
[WSG] Efficient CSS Practice Methods
Happy Holidays All, When between projects, practice is the order of the day, as mastery in this field is a fallacy. However, it simply seems counter- productive laying out sites that will not be used for personal or commercial gain. This belief begs the question how does one effectively practice CSS? Should I continue creating scenarios and templates, or can some knowledgeable member share practice methodologies? Respectfully, CK ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] OT: Need recomendations for a JavaScript/DOM book
I would also recommend the Jeremy Keith book, dead easy to read and understand. There's more information about the book here:http://www.domscripting.com/ On 22/11/05, Steve Clason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/22/2005 9:50 AM Ted Drake wrote: I would recommend starting with Domscripting by Jeremy Keith. Then, follow with DHTML Utopia, I don't remember the author of DHTML Utopia.+1 for the Keith book, but be aware many of the examples don't work in Mozilla browsers, I believe because they lack full support forsetAttribute.Or at least that was my experience--when I played around using Opera itwas much more fun.--Steve Clason Web Design and DevelopmentBoulder, Colorado, USAwww.topdogstrategy.com(303)818-8590**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] why liquid layout is important.
These $100 laptops, at the moment anyway, are only pre-prototype. There isn't even one fully functional version of it yet, and it will be a while until there is. Kofi Annan broke the handle of it when it was unveiled the other day, because he thought it was the real thing, but unfortunately it isn't, it's just a basic model of what it might be like. It's definitely a good idea, but surely, a poor African family would rather sell the laptop for money than keep the laptop if they had the choice... On 21/11/05, Duckworth, Nigel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think anyone here would disagree that the equitable delivery of and access to information and education is every persons right.I disagree. I'm pretty sure this is not the forum for this topic though. -Nigel-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] On Behalf Of Herrod, LisaSent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 7:48 PMTo: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org'Subject: RE: [WSG] why liquid layout is important. This is a great article Terrance, and while interesting from a design /technology perspective, I think the human side of this story is moreimportant.I'm sure everyone who saw Doug Bowmans presentation at WE05 'Zooming out of the trenches' http://we05.com/podcast/ was incredibly moved by hispresentation - I heard stories of tears. After all, building tostandards is really about equity isn't it? I don't think anyone here would disagree that the equitable delivery of and access to informationand education is every persons right.It would be great if we (WSG listers) could come together to work on aproject like this - we all have such great contacts, it would be a very powerful thing to do. I've been wanting to do something like this for along time, if you are interested too, please contact me.lisa-Original Message-From: Terrence Wood [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Monday, 21 November 2005 9:28 AMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: [WSG] why liquid layout is important. Sorry if this has been commented on in this forum:http://chronicle.com/free/2005/11/2005111602t.htm10 Million 7.5in small screens, pretty sure that will change the face of the browser market.--Terrence Wood**The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help** **The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help**
Re: [WSG] Efficient CSS Practice Methods
On 11/23/2005 10:16 AM Chris Kennon wrote: Happy Holidays All, When between projects, practice is the order of the day, as mastery in this field is a fallacy. However, it simply seems counter-productive laying out sites that will not be used for personal or commercial gain. This belief begs the question how does one effectively practice CSS? Should I continue creating scenarios and templates, or can some knowledgeable member share practice methodologies? Consider pro bono work for charitable or non-profit organizations. I've done dozens of sites for churches, political candidates, neighborhood associations, amateur sports teams, political interest groups and so on. They always appreciate the help (especially if you include a way for them to update the content), you get to sharpen your tools and try out new techniques with less pressure. And feel good about yourself, help the planet I recommend thinking hard before doing free work for organizations with paid staff--after all, if they can afford to pay people they should pay you--but I sometimes do if I support the cause enough or if the organization is very small (a small church, for instance). -- Steve Clason Web Design and Development Boulder, Colorado, USA www.topdogstrategy.com (303)818-8590 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] why liquid layout is important.
Rik Lomas said: It's definitely a good idea, but surely, a poor African family would rather sell the laptop for money than keep the laptop if they had the choice... I'm pretty sure that Africa is not the only distribution point for these things. Sure food, and health are priorities, but education and knowledge are handy too... teach a man to fish and all that. The ultimate goal is to make computers as pervasive as pencil and paper. kind regards Terrence Wood. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] why liquid layout is important.
I'm pretty sure this is not the forum for this topic though. -Nigel Often when we discuss accessibility, we ignore needs of people with low or no bandwidth. So I think this topic is a great reminder that accessibility is much broader than solely meeting the needs of the disabled, although that's clearly a baseline to be met too. I've been working with the World Health Organization and other UN agencies for years. They (at least some folks there) see the need for accessible web information in health and development all across the world. It's not for us to decide who would have good uses for inexpensive computers. I do wonder if adults would let children keep such a valuable tool to themselves. I'll be watching to see what happens. I also figure that this is a good first step in connecting people who are so far unconnected to the Internet. I figure their strategy was to raise funds and interest by limiting the project to children. But it will certainly spread from there, if it actually comes to fruition. I've worked with a project called Health InterNetwork, which birthed HIN Access to Research Initiative at WHO. HIN succeeded in getting the really big medical publishers to allow access to lots of medical journals to research institutes and health organizations throughout the developing world through a WHO sub-site. ( http://www.who.int/ hinari/en/ ) I also work with Knowledge Management at WHO ( http://www.who.int/kms/ en/ ) I've just finished a report that was presented at WSIS, with lots of statistics on ICT and health indicators for the WHO regions, for those who are interested in the broad topic. The pdf is available at the above address. In the next year, the research on a country level will be added to the WHO site and will be published in book form. Best regards, Marilyn Langfeld Langfeldesigns http://www.langfeldesigns.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Radio New Zealand site relaunch
The way that it uses the white space is nice ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG]My first take at standards and CSS did not go so well, Need Help!
Jack Saat said: Please help me out. Hi Jack, It is quite common to end up with designs that work in one browser but not the other when starting out developing with web standards. I haven't got access to your page with FF at the moment so I can't often any advice on the specific problems you may have with your page. However, I would like to offer some advice on how to approach developing with web standards - it may save a lot of headaches. 1. Work up your design in a standards compliant browser first (i.e. not IE). Any browser released in the last couple of years will be fine. I personally use FF because of it's extension archecture (web developers toolbar is indespensible), with the occasional check in Opera, and Safari as I go along. This ensures my design works in the 3 major (standards compliant) rendering engines: Moz/Ghecko, Opera and Webkit/KHTML. 2. 'Fix' the design for browsers that have patchy standards support but you must accomodate (i.e. IE6, IE5.5, and any others *if* you know they form part of your target audience). Personally, I don't create CSS for v4 browsers, NN7, Opera7. These browsers get raw html, or occasionally just a basic stylesheet with some color's but no positioning, or the CSS but no debugging (reason is these browsers are all optional installations and most people will upgrade them). I don't specifically support Mac IE5 unless the CSS required to support it is quick and easy to implement. 3. Keep hacks and workarounds together where possible. Some people suggest that you shouldn't use hacks, but I've found they can't really be avoided. I try to group any rendering fixes at the end of my CSS files - that way they are easy to find and edit and it ensures that the rest of my CSS is clean and compliant. I use the * html hack, or conditional comments to deliver CSS to IE. HTH kind regards Terrence Wood. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1
I wouldn't be too surprised to discover that a little javascript could manipulate the numbering. Also, and I'll probably get lynched for this but the following should also work in a transiational doctype. ol li value=40/li ... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Somaya Langley Sent: Wednesday, 23 November 2005 4:08 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1 Hi All - I'm putting together a template for a contents list page for the National Library of Australia's online pictures delivery system. We need to start an ordered list on a page from a number other than 1, as the lists could be quite long and so will be chunked into a set per page. There are two solutions... the first, for example: ol start=40 li divtext info in here/div /li ... or, the second: ol li divnumber inserted in here from our digital content management system/div divtext info in here/div /li ... While the first would be more elegant, start is now a depricated attribute. What do people suggest? Thanks Somaya _ Somaya Langley Digital Preservations Officer / Web Audio Analyst National Library of Australia Parkes Place Canberra ACT 2600 ph +61 2 6262 1366 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.musicaustralia.org http://www.nla.gov.au ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Efficient CSS Practice Methods
From: Chris Kennon This belief begs the question how does one effectively practice CSS? Should I continue creating scenarios and templates, or can some knowledgeable member share practice methodologies? Chris, Long before this list existed I used to try and solve all the problems that came up on the css-d list, I'd create a simplified test case of the problem area and work on it to figure out what was causing the problem, then try and find a fix for it. Replying back to the list with my findings had the benefit of assisting the original questioner and also getting peer review of my findings. Discussions would often bring further info to light and some of us would go away with more knowledge than we started with. I'm still a member of css-d, but I rarely have time to investigate or help very much these days. http://www.css-discuss.org/ -- Peter Williams ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1
Paul Noone wrote: Also, and I'll probably get lynched for this but the following should also work in a transiational doctype. ol li value=40/li ... Not for using it, just for not quoting it properly ;) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] :after, IE, and link text wrapping
Hi folks,
I'm displaying a small image to indicate an external link using this:
a.external:after {
content: url(media/external.gif);
padding-left: 2px;
}
Obviously IE doesn't show this, so I've used this in a separate style
sheet for IE:
a.external {
background: url(media/external.gif) no-repeat 100% 50%;
padding-right: 15px;
}
The first method produces this, even if the link text wraps:
Some link text here [pic]
or
Some link text
here [pic]
Sweet.
But in IE, when the link text wraps, I get this:
Some link text [pic]
here
IE is misplacing the image in links that wrap, but places them
perfectly correctly if the link is contained in one line.
I'm considering just turning off the pretty [pic] for IE users and
leaving it at that.
Is there a way to make it display the image at the END of the LINK,
instead of at the end of the LINE?
I've messed around w/ placement and padding etc. No joy.
ta,
sunny.
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1
Hi, Can someone explain why this incredibly useful attribute: ol li value=40/li is deprecated, or is it? C On Nov 23, 2005, at 3:44 PM, Geoff Pack wrote: Paul Noone wrote: Also, and I'll probably get lynched for this but the following should also work in a transiational doctype. ol li value=40/li ... Not for using it, just for not quoting it properly ;) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1
Thanks guys. Javascript is out, as our internal NLA standards try to avoid where possible. Value attribute falls into the same category as the start attribute... Yes, theoretically you can do things with the counter in CSS, but to actually do anything meaningful, CSS would really need to be a fully programmable environment where relationships and variables were possible and easy to handle. ON another note... re: snip Can someone explain why this incredibly useful attribute: ol li value=40/li is deprecated, or is it? /snip There's a little bit of info here http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/markdown-discuss/2004-March/000255.htm l Thanks Somaya _ Somaya Langley Digital Preservations Officer / Web Audio Analyst National Library of Australia Parkes Place Canberra ACT 2600 ph +61 2 6262 1366 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.musicaustralia.org http://www.nla.gov.au ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1
Chris Kennon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can someone explain why this incredibly useful attribute: ol li value=40/li is deprecated, or is it? It is depreciated ( http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html) although it is not obselete therefore will still be supported for backward compatibility. One possible reason could be that it completely destroys the semantics of an ordered list by allowing it to be broken up. I'm curious about the function of the list - does the numbering describe the images to make them meaningful in some way? An ordered list spread over multiple URIs strikes me as wrong as the list portion referenced by an individual URI may have less meaning when dislocated from other portions of the list. Something like spreading a library index over different rooms[files] in the building[domain]. Is there a reason apart from file size / download time that this list should be spread over multiple pages? I assume the archive is huge but if its just a contents list page then wouldn't it be hypertext with anchors for blocks and meaningful URIs for each image? I assume the library has some kind of tagging system or category system to classify images so access to groups of images themselves is achieved through that? Jon Tan www.gr0w.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] CSS Validators
Does anyone know of a downloadable CSS validator (other than the W3C one) that I can install on an local server to batch check files on my local network? We currently use the WDG html validator, but their CSS validator is not available for download. Cheers Geoff Pack ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] :after, IE, and link text wrapping
SunUp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a way to make it display the image at the END of the LINK, instead of at the end of the LINE? I've messed around w/ placement and padding etc. No joy. Hi Sunny Turning them off for IE has always been my answer. If you realy want the bg img in there to indicate an external link one workaround is to add a span before the closing /a and apply a bg to that but it's a little verbose. btw... [off topic] for all of you who may go to the Melbourne bbq *blah* on behalf of anyone suffering under winter in the northern hemisphere; when people start talking about frisbees I get jealous. Jon Tan www.gr0w.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1
Perhaps you're right that an ordered list is not the right list to choose, as it will be chunked and split across pages, however the scenario is such that: * a collection of images may contain thousands of items * the collection is the highest level in the heirachy and so needs a finding aid in some way to access items within the collection and to describe relationships that may not be possible at lower levels (not worth going into, needless to say that there are complex relationships between items particularly in manuscript collections) * the way that's been selected is to show a thumbnail icon and the title or some descriptive metadata (similar to search results pages on the site: http://www.musicaustralia.org) * list of items/images (including file sizes) would be too long that our usability tests (and commonsense) shows that users are just unable to scroll through thousands of items - hence chunking is necesssary * while there is a fairly indepth persistent identification naming scheme for image files, again it harks back to the relationships that can't be expressed via the naming scheme and the need to build these content list pages as a way for users to view large collections perhaps I'll roll this page back to XHTML transitional so start can be used, but am hesitant to begin by knowingly working with things that aren't the way forward so to speak. Thanks Somaya -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon Tan Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2005 12:29 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1 Chris Kennon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can someone explain why this incredibly useful attribute: ol li value=40/li is deprecated, or is it? It is depreciated ( http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html) although it is not obselete therefore will still be supported for backward compatibility. One possible reason could be that it completely destroys the semantics of an ordered list by allowing it to be broken up. I'm curious about the function of the list - does the numbering describe the images to make them meaningful in some way? An ordered list spread over multiple URIs strikes me as wrong as the list portion referenced by an individual URI may have less meaning when dislocated from other portions of the list. Something like spreading a library index over different rooms[files] in the building[domain]. Is there a reason apart from file size / download time that this list should be spread over multiple pages? I assume the archive is huge but if its just a contents list page then wouldn't it be hypertext with anchors for blocks and meaningful URIs for each image? I assume the library has some kind of tagging system or category system to classify images so access to groups of images themselves is achieved through that? Jon Tan www.gr0w.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] CSS Validators
I hazard to mention that Dreamweaver has built-in validation for CSS acrosse various browsers. StyleMaster is probably worth checking out, too. Although there are others on this list far better equipped to dicuss its merits than I. ;) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Geoff Pack Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2005 12:43 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] CSS Validators Does anyone know of a downloadable CSS validator (other than the W3C one) that I can install on an local server to batch check files on my local network? We currently use the WDG html validator, but their CSS validator is not available for download. Cheers Geoff Pack ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] :after, IE, and link text wrapping
Thanks Jon ... It was suggested that I try span, which I did, but IE still displays the image at the end of the line, where the long link text wraps, instead of at the of whole link. I think I'll just hide it afterall, and IE users can (in the inimitable words of Dad in The Castle) suffer in their jocks. thanks, sunny On 11/24/05, Jon Tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SunUp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a way to make it display the image at the END of the LINK, instead of at the end of the LINE? I've messed around w/ placement and padding etc. No joy. Hi Sunny Turning them off for IE has always been my answer. If you realy want the bg img in there to indicate an external link one workaround is to add a span before the closing /a and apply a bg to that but it's a little verbose. btw... [off topic] for all of you who may go to the Melbourne bbq *blah* on behalf of anyone suffering under winter in the northern hemisphere; when people start talking about frisbees I get jealous. Jon Tan www.gr0w.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Working Drafts: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2.0
From the W3C The Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) Working Group has released Working Drafts of the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2.0 [1] and HTML Techniques for WCAG 2.0 [2] and a First Public Working Draft of Understanding WCAG 2.0 [3]. Following WCAG makes Web content more accessible to the vast majority of users, including people with disabilities and older users, using many different devices including a wide variety of assistive technology. Read about the Web Accessibility Initiative [4]. [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-WCAG20-20051123/ [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20051123/ [3] http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20051123/ [4] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ Thanks Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1
There's also the idea that legal documents are often split into sections which continue numbering but are infact separate documents (addendums, etc...) . At the moment, legal docs can't be semantically marked-up (at least in OZ) because: 1. any electonic version of a legal document MUST replicate the numbering and ordering EXACTLY. 2. current HTML/XHTML list mark-up/styling is not flexible enough to accomplish this. The 'start' attribute and the 'value' attribute in lis would be amazingly helpful for this. Of course, the obvious solution is to teach bl**dy lawyers how to meaningfully put together a document but they can't even write in plain English let alone manage something as complex as nested lists! ;oP On a more serious note, if someone can put together a MicroFormat that solves this problem, they'll go down in the Web Geek Hall of Fame or something. (if you do manage it though, please let me know!) R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1
On 23/11/05, Geoff Pack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree with Bert - use the start attribute and a transitional dtd. It's cleaner, more concise, and captures exactly the semantics of what you are doing. You don't need the div around the text info though. Of course you could always write out the first 39 empty list-items and hide them :) Agree with Bert and Geoff here. The dropping of 'start' attribute from strict DTD was, and is, a controversial W3C decision - one with which I disagree, personally. There are plenty of plausible and sensible scenarios for having an ordered list start with something other than 1... this NLA case being an excellent example. This is one case where I would regard (this particular aspect of) validation as being a hindrance rather than a help. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1
the first, for example: ol start=40 li divtext info in here/div /li What do people suggest? I'd vote for: ol start=40 litext info in here/li /ol I think the specs should not have deprecated the attribute - breaking up huge lists into separate pages is entirely legit, which means the numbering is an important part of the *content*. The idea that all numbers should be added with CSS goes against the idea of separating style and content, IMHO. I'd recommend using li value=n, but I'm not clear about the future interpretation of the attribute. I notice it's included in XHTML 2.0 (http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-xhtml2-20040722/mod-list.html#adef_list_value), but the spec doesn't say whether following items should continue the numbering from the previous value. That would be *logical*, but ...well, specs aren't always logical :) cheers, h -- --- http://www.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] :after, IE, and link text wrapping
Sunny, what Jon and I meant was to put the span at the end of the link like this: a class=externalThe linkspan class=extimage/span/a This will force the image to appear at the nend of the link. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SunUp Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2005 12:53 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] :after, IE, and link text wrapping Thanks Jon ... It was suggested that I try span, which I did, but IE still displays the image at the end of the line, where the long link text wraps, instead of at the of whole link. I think I'll just hide it afterall, and IE users can (in the inimitable words of Dad in The Castle) suffer in their jocks. thanks, sunny On 11/24/05, Jon Tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SunUp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a way to make it display the image at the END of the LINK, instead of at the end of the LINE? I've messed around w/ placement and padding etc. No joy. Hi Sunny Turning them off for IE has always been my answer. If you realy want the bg img in there to indicate an external link one workaround is to add a span before the closing /a and apply a bg to that but it's a little verbose. btw... [off topic] for all of you who may go to the Melbourne bbq *blah* on behalf of anyone suffering under winter in the northern hemisphere; when people start talking about frisbees I get jealous. Jon Tan www.gr0w.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1
Somaya Langley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...]* the way that's been selected is to show a thumbnail icon and the title or some descriptive metadata (similar to search results pages on the site: http://www.musicaustralia.org) If the ol is just to place the record in a block of search results like the example site then it might be worth considering dl with dt as the hyperlinked title - that would also apply more meningful html to the title of the item returned. The results description shown contextualy [Resources (1-20 of 529)] etc. numbers the block anyway. Interesting site btw. Jon Tan www.gr0w.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon Tan Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2005 12:29 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1 Chris Kennon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can someone explain why this incredibly useful attribute: ol li value=40/li is deprecated, or is it? It is depreciated ( http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html) although it is not obselete therefore will still be supported for backward compatibility. One possible reason could be that it completely destroys the semantics of an ordered list by allowing it to be broken up. I'm curious about the function of the list - does the numbering describe the images to make them meaningful in some way? An ordered list spread over multiple URIs strikes me as wrong as the list portion referenced by an individual URI may have less meaning when dislocated from other portions of the list. Something like spreading a library index over different rooms[files] in the building[domain]. Is there a reason apart from file size / download time that this list should be spread over multiple pages? I assume the archive is huge but if its just a contents list page then wouldn't it be hypertext with anchors for blocks and meaningful URIs for each image? I assume the library has some kind of tagging system or category system to classify images so access to groups of images themselves is achieved through that? Jon Tan www.gr0w.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Incoming: No virus found. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.7/180 - Release Date: 23/11/2005 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1
Amazing site. Nice use of pictograms. Categorising all that data must have been one hell of a job. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon Tan Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2005 1:18 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1 Somaya Langley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...]* the way that's been selected is to show a thumbnail icon and the title or some descriptive metadata (similar to search results pages on the site: http://www.musicaustralia.org) If the ol is just to place the record in a block of search results like the example site then it might be worth considering dl with dt as the hyperlinked title - that would also apply more meningful html to the title of the item returned. The results description shown contextualy [Resources (1-20 of 529)] etc. numbers the block anyway. Interesting site btw. Jon Tan www.gr0w.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon Tan Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2005 12:29 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1 Chris Kennon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can someone explain why this incredibly useful attribute: ol li value=40/li is deprecated, or is it? It is depreciated ( http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html) although it is not obselete therefore will still be supported for backward compatibility. One possible reason could be that it completely destroys the semantics of an ordered list by allowing it to be broken up. I'm curious about the function of the list - does the numbering describe the images to make them meaningful in some way? An ordered list spread over multiple URIs strikes me as wrong as the list portion referenced by an individual URI may have less meaning when dislocated from other portions of the list. Something like spreading a library index over different rooms[files] in the building[domain]. Is there a reason apart from file size / download time that this list should be spread over multiple pages? I assume the archive is huge but if its just a contents list page then wouldn't it be hypertext with anchors for blocks and meaningful URIs for each image? I assume the library has some kind of tagging system or category system to classify images so access to groups of images themselves is achieved through that? Jon Tan www.gr0w.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Incoming: No virus found. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.7/180 - Release Date: 23/11/2005 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1
matt andrews wrote: Agree with Bert and Geoff here. The dropping of 'start' attribute from strict DTD was, and is, a controversial W3C decision - one with which I disagree, personally. There are plenty of plausible and sensible scenarios for having an ordered list start with something other than 1... this NLA case being an excellent example. This is one case where I would regard (this particular aspect of) validation as being a hindrance rather than a help. I like where the W3C Validator says that a page with the start attribute is invalid whereas Tidy says it's ok... I'm in total agreement that start shouldn't have been dropped. There are several legal type documents that require things to be numbered. However, for the reason of simplicity for the user it was decided by the web team that the sections be different pages and the number needs to remain consistent. Even though it's depreciated and many pages at many websites aren't valid in the first place -- couldn't you still use the start attribute on a Strict page anyways? Ducks and runs...*poof* .Peter -- Peter J. Farrell :: Maestro Publishing http://blog.maestropublishing.com Rooibos Generator - Version 2.1 Create boilerplate beans and transfer objects for ColdFusion for free! http://rooibos.maestropublishing.com/ - Member Team Mach-II - Member Team Fusion! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] BOM and charset declaration in CSS
Who uses an encoding declaration at the head of their external CSS style sheets? And how do you get around the UTF-8 signature or byte order mark (BOM) that some editors add to the document? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of russ - maxdesign Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2005 1:03 PM To: Web Standards Group Subject: [WSG] Working Drafts: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2.0 From the W3C The Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) Working Group has released Working Drafts of the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2.0 [1] and HTML Techniques for WCAG 2.0 [2] and a First Public Working Draft of Understanding WCAG 2.0 [3]. Following WCAG makes Web content more accessible to the vast majority of users, including people with disabilities and older users, using many different devices including a wide variety of assistive technology. Read about the Web Accessibility Initiative [4]. [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-WCAG20-20051123/ [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20051123/ [3] http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20051123/ [4] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ Thanks Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] :after, IE, and link text wrapping
... what Jon and I meant was to put the span at the end of the link like
this:
a class=externalThe linkspan class=extimage/span/a
*nod*
I did try that.
And then the CSS would be:
span.exit {
background: url(media/external.gif) no-repeat;
}
yea?
It doesn't show at all :(
Clearly I need a sign on my back that says I'm too thick to do this stuff.
Thanks guys,
sunny.
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RE: [WSG] :after, IE, and link text wrapping
Set a width or padding on your exit class that is sufficient to display the
image.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of SunUp
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2005 1:59 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] :after, IE, and link text wrapping
... what Jon and I meant was to put the span at the end of the link
like
this:
a class=externalThe linkspan class=extimage/span/a
*nod*
I did try that.
And then the CSS would be:
span.exit {
background: url(media/external.gif) no-repeat; }
yea?
It doesn't show at all :(
Clearly I need a sign on my back that says I'm too thick to do this stuff.
Thanks guys,
sunny.
**
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**
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Re: [WSG] :after, IE, and link text wrapping
G'day
Paul Noone wrote:
Set a width or padding on your exit class that is sufficient to display the
image.
And get the class name in the html matching the css. In fact,
the span doesn't need a class at all if you do this:
a.external span { /* whatever styles needed */ }
a class=externalBlahspan /span/a
FWIW, I don't like the idea of adding extra, non semantic markup
for presentational purposes.
Regards
--
Bert Doorn, Better Web Design
http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/
Fast-loading, user-friendly websites
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Re: [WSG] BOM and charset declaration in CSS
Hi Paul, Paul Noone wrote: Who uses an encoding declaration at the head of their external CSS style sheets? if my stylesheet just uses the basic Latin range, I usually don't bother with an encoding declaration. If the values of my id and class attributes fall outside that range or if I have unescaped text being inserted into the document via CSS then I'd add an encoding declaration. And how do you get around the UTF-8 signature or byte order mark (BOM) that some editors add to the document? Some info on BOM at http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-utf8-bom for those interested. Some editors will give you the option of saving with or without BOM. For this type of stuff I use emeditor. There are various tools out there for striping the BOM, eg http://www.xs4all.nl/~mechiel/projects/bomstrip/ Andrew -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of russ - maxdesign Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2005 1:03 PM To: Web Standards Group Subject: [WSG] Working Drafts: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2.0 From the W3C The Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) Working Group has released Working Drafts of the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2.0 [1] and HTML Techniques for WCAG 2.0 [2] and a First Public Working Draft of Understanding WCAG 2.0 [3]. Following WCAG makes Web content more accessible to the vast majority of users, including people with disabilities and older users, using many different devices including a wide variety of assistive technology. Read about the Web Accessibility Initiative [4]. [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-WCAG20-20051123/ [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20051123/ [3] http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20051123/ [4] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ Thanks Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Andrew Cunningham e-Diversity and Content Infrastructure Solutions Public Libraries Unit, Vicnet State Library of Victoria 328 Swanston Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Australia andrewc+AEA-vicnet.net.au Ph. 3-8664-7430 Fax: 3-9639-2175 http://www.openroad.net.au/ http://www.libraries.vic.gov.au/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] :after, IE, and link text wrapping
Set a width or padding on your exit class that is sufficient to display the
image.
Yes, did that. I still can't see the wretched thing.
And get the class name in the html matching the css. In fact,
the span doesn't need a class at all if you do this:
a.external span { /* whatever styles needed */ }
a class=externalBlahspan /span/a
FWIW, I don't like the idea of adding extra, non semantic markup
for presentational purposes.
Thanks for that too Bert. That's just about what I ended up with, and
it just won't show itself. Agreed, the extra markup is undesirable,
but I was getting annoyed that it wasn't working and was willing to
try anything just to get the thing to show, and THEN decided whether I
wanted to live with it like that.
However, I give up on it. Weird though, I can see it working in IE
here: http://webdesign.maratz.com/lab/visited_links_styling/. I
seriously don't know why it's not working for me .. maybe something
else in the styles is preventing it? shrug
Thanks to you all for your input.
I'm 10 pages down, and about 100 to go, on a major redesign from
table-based to .. well, not table-based. I'm sure I have other things
I should be paying more attention to.
sunny.
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Re: [WSG] :after, IE, and link text wrapping
Paul Noone wrote:
Set a width or padding on your exit class that is sufficient to display the
image.
On 11/24/05, Bert Doorn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In fact, the span doesn't need a class at all if you do this:
a.external span { /* whatever styles needed */ }
a class=externalBlahspan /span/a
FWIW, I don't like the idea of adding extra, non semantic markup
for presentational purposes.
One way to avoid dealing with whether or not an empty span displays
its background (and perhaps to salve the conscience over non-semantic
markup) is to place the last word of the link within the span.
So a class=externalThe last spanword/span/a for longer links
that might split over lines; which collapses to
a class=externalspanBlah/span/a when there is only a single word.
Bob
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for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] University textbook or other resources?
Sorry for the sarcasm but I dream of a lecturer covering things like accessibility, especially with decent books and knowledgeable and interested tutors :-P Well, one of my minors at Uni SA has a subject/course of Accesible Interactive Multimedia, so your dream is my reality :) Thanks for that! ;p Kat ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Working Drafts: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2. 0
Is anyone aware of the proposed date WCAG 2.0 will replace 1.0? -Original Message- From: russ - maxdesign [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2005 1:03 PM To: Web Standards Group Subject: [WSG] Working Drafts: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2.0 From the W3C The Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) Working Group has released Working Drafts of the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2.0 [1] and HTML Techniques for WCAG 2.0 [2] and a First Public Working Draft of Understanding WCAG 2.0 [3]. Following WCAG makes Web content more accessible to the vast majority of users, including people with disabilities and older users, using many different devices including a wide variety of assistive technology. Read about the Web Accessibility Initiative [4]. [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-WCAG20-20051123/ [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20051123/ [3] http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20051123/ [4] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ Thanks Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] :after, IE, and link text wrapping
... place the last word of the link within the span. So a class=externalThe last spanword/span/a for longer links Ok ok, I know I said I'd given up, but I tried this, and it finally worked. Still ... it's weird that it didn't show up before. And in fact, when I move the span back to get this ... a class=externalLink herespan/span/a ... it disappears again. When I wrap it around the last word again, it appears. Crazy stuff. Thanks again, gentlemen. sunny ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] final word on numbering lists...
of course, you could just use the start attribute *and* the Strict DTD. I consider this the case where using start is the best *and simplest* solution, and frankly, that's what we're all trying to do isn't it. If we keep it simple - it's not just keeping content and layout separate, especially when XHML is *only* the front component to largescale dynamic database driven sites. Thanks all for your input, if anyone who is working for/with w3c is on this list, perhaps this could be fed back...? Hope you all had a good meeting at the NLA a few weeks back, sorry couldn't make it. Thanks again Somaya _ Somaya Langley Digital Preservations Officer / Web Audio Analyst National Library of Australia Parkes Place Canberra ACT 2600 ph +61 2 6262 1366 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.musicaustralia.org http://www.nla.gov.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter J. Farrell Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2005 1:31 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1 matt andrews wrote: Agree with Bert and Geoff here. The dropping of 'start' attribute from strict DTD was, and is, a controversial W3C decision - one with which I disagree, personally. There are plenty of plausible and sensible scenarios for having an ordered list start with something other than 1... this NLA case being an excellent example. This is one case where I would regard (this particular aspect of) validation as being a hindrance rather than a help. I like where the W3C Validator says that a page with the start attribute is invalid whereas Tidy says it's ok... I'm in total agreement that start shouldn't have been dropped. There are several legal type documents that require things to be numbered. However, for the reason of simplicity for the user it was decided by the web team that the sections be different pages and the number needs to remain consistent. Even though it's depreciated and many pages at many websites aren't valid in the first place -- couldn't you still use the start attribute on a Strict page anyways? Ducks and runs...*poof* .Peter -- Peter J. Farrell :: Maestro Publishing http://blog.maestropublishing.com Rooibos Generator - Version 2.1 Create boilerplate beans and transfer objects for ColdFusion for free! http://rooibos.maestropublishing.com/ - Member Team Mach-II - Member Team Fusion! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] :after, IE, and link text wrapping
G'day Ok ok, I know I said I'd given up, but I tried this, and it finally worked. Still ... it's weird that it didn't show up before. And in fact, when I move the span back to get this ... a class=externalLink herespan/span/a ... it disappears again. When I wrap it around the last word again, it appears. Probably because you have an empty inline element (nothing inside the span). Browser says: there's nothing there so I'll display nothing :-) Maybe if you put a space in it (hoping MSIE doesn't decide it's unneeded whitespace)? Or give it display:inline-block, with a width. Regards -- Bert Doorn, Better Web Design http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/ Fast-loading, user-friendly websites ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Validators
You can try using HTML-kit try to install the plugin for w3c css validatorhere is the link http://www.chami.com, hope this will help you.regardsJhondie AbenazaGeoff Pack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know of a downloadable CSS validator (other than the W3C one) that I can install on an local server to batch check files on my local network? We currently use the WDG html validator, but their CSS validator is not available for download.CheersGeoff Pack**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help** Linux by choice, geek by nature. www.jdam.net Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
Re: [WSG] BOM and charset declaration in CSS
Hi Paul and Russ, Paul wrote: And how do you get around the UTF-8 signature or byte order mark (BOM) that some editors add to the document? I see you already have some replies on this BOM bit. For looking over your file format (and also simply deleting the BOM) you might also try a utility like XVI32.exe which displays your file character by character along side the hex values. Anything that your editor puts before the DOCTYPE will put you into quirks mode so the BOM (and anything else the editor inserted at the beginning of the file) can and probably should be deleted. I like XVI32 a lot because I don't have a lot of files to run in batch and I was curious what was happening. Regards, Gene Falck [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Maccaws.org contact
Hi to all, do you know an alternative way to contact the people at Maccaws.org? The direct email seems not existing and I'm not sure about the form... Thank you very much Vito -- Vito Tardia - Freelance = Sviluppatore Creativo e Artista Digitale Creative Developer and Digital Artist V.lo S. Crispino, 1 22070 Cirimido (Co) - Italy Tel.: +39-347-4355516 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.vtardia.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
