Re: [WSG] menu suggestions and problems
yes I know that But you are not getting it, which is fine, you don't have too, I do. We know some or a lot of people it wont fit which is a given. But your option is to make them page scroll and mine is to window scroll so that they DON'T have to scroll all the way up to use the menu. Does that make sense too you? Ok like on your http://cheeaun.phoenity.com/weblog/ if i am using that site and am going through the about section and i read all the way to the bottom of the page and I decide to go to a different page I have to up scroll how many hundreds if not thousands of lines to do that??? Really, it's quite annoying and thats what we DIDNT want on this site, you can stay put and scrool and have immediate access to the menu without adding additional menus or floating annoying menus. anyways, im heading to bed and im sure people are sick of this threadFrom: Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 5:08 AMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] menu suggestions and problems And too add to that, their stats say well over 90% of their web site users are using a screen resolution of 800 x 600screen resolution != viewport sizethis is a common mistake among developers. I just explained to youthat my screen resolution is 1280 x 768 which is much bigger thanthat, however my viewport size is 1257 x 536.1257 x 536 -- notice the number less than 600If you would explain that to your client maybe they would realize themistake being made.once again, screen resolution != viewport size.Christian Montoyachristianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help**
Re: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)
Hi, If you tell your client to visit www.msn.com with his Mac IE5.2 browser then he'll get the message that his browser is out of date and that he should change it to another browser like FireFox or Safari. So even Microsoft tells Macusers to change to another browser than Internet Explorer. I think that's a good arguement. Maybe your client would accept a message asking the user to change to a newer browser which supports webstandard? Personally I think we should design for all browsers on all platforms, but when even the creators of IE (Microsoft) tells the audience to change to another one it's time for us to forget about IE for Mac. Regards Vincent Hasselgård On 11/25/05, Web Man Walking [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are you using as an editor? I noticed a meta I haven't seen before:meta name=MSSmartTagsPreventParsing content=true /Does that indicate FrontPage or something MS-based? http://www.html-reference.com/META_name_MSSmartTagsPreventParsing.htmPoint out to your client that IE5.2 is so flakey it might as well be in sanskrit and that and smart people using Macs will be using Safari orFirefox ;-)Will give it a shot.ThanksE.**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] menu suggestions and problems
So you hit CTRL and HOME for the top or CTRL and END for the bottom of a page. And yes, lots of people do know that. Simple, Josh. Yahoo! Model Search - Could you be the next catwalk superstar? Check out the competition now
RE: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)
Title: Dragon Way (Site Check) http://test.dragon-way.com/ Any other comments would be ace. Firstly, congratulations on putting together a site that is well structured with the headings etc. My comments relate more to the usability and accessibility aspects. Your splash screen and internal top menu use the mystery meat paradigm, ie you dont know what the graphics relate to until you mouse or tab over them. The first doll doesnt show a title if tabbed, only if moused over If images are turned off as many users on slower modems do, you cant get past the splash screen There is no indication via alt tag or other that the Dragon Way logo actually links to a contact page My guess would be that many users would click on the Dragon Way logo on the splash screen expecting to go to an introductory page about Dragon Way and would be quite confused when they arrive on the contact page. This should of course be verified through user testing. I would have expected much more detail about the food. While it is good to know where the restaurants are I would not be enticed to go there unless I had a reasonably good idea of the menu. It the menu page intended to be expanded or is the list it??? The title on the menu page is also confusing. I clicked on menu, my expectation is to see what dishes are offered if I go to the restaurant. The page title states Take away and home delivery menu. Questions will automatically be raised. Is this different to the restaurant menu? Are the prices different? Where o I find the restaurant menu? Did I click on the wrong thing? Etc etc. Much better just to title it Menu then add text if take away and dine-in differ. Regards Graham Cook www.uaoz.com
[WSG] RNZFB new website - plus article in Macguide
The latest NZ Macguide magazine has a good interview on Macs and accessibility at Royal NZ Foundation for the Blind, and also some info on their new website (which uses Plone CMS) at http://www.rnzfb.org.nz/ Both well worth a look. Cheers Rebecca ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Extra menu for when images are turned off
I have added a hidden menu to a site for those using text browsers or surfing with images turned off. The regular menu is image based but uses titles for accessibility, but this doesn't show in Lynx. I'd rather have a text based menu now but the client is happy and it is better than the drop down menu they wanted. I'm just wondering if there may be any disadvantages, for SEO or otherwise, by doing this? Also related to having images turned off and for SEO, I have a hidden h1. As I'm already using sIFR, I can't do a secondary image replacement for the logo which is currently a bg image. Ideally, I'd like to detect if images are turned off and reset the margin so the h1 appears onscreen. Does anyone know how to detect if images are turned off? Regards, Stuart ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Extra menu for when images are turned off
Stuart Sherwood wrote: I have added a hidden menu to a site for those using text browsers or surfing with images turned off. The regular menu is image based but uses titles for accessibility, but this doesn't show in Lynx. You *ARE* giving those images suitable ALT attributes, I hope? TITLE is irrelevant for accessibility. -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] page break up
Hi-I am new to CSS and strict. The URL I am having trouble with is http://members.cox.net/loricole.newhome.html. The style sheet is at http://members.cox.net.loricole/newtext.css. As you use the navigations tabs and go back to the home page, the blue background breaks up the white index card. Refreshing the screen stops it unless you tab through and cursor back again. I have IE v6. Also, I was intending for the hover of the tabs to be yellow but that does not happen. Thank you for any help. Lori
Re: [WSG] Extra menu for when images are turned off
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: TITLE is irrelevant for accessibility. Actually, let me rephrase that before it causes confusion: TITLE on images is pretty much irrelevant (unless you're doing some sort of mystery meat navigation and need to ensure that Firefox gives the user a tooltip description of the image, as FF chooses not to display ALT as a tooltip...but that type of navigation is seriously frowned upon anyway and really not advisable). -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Extra menu for when images are turned off
Sorry, I forgot to mention that the menu uses CSS Sprit rollovers so there are no images in the markup, therefore no alt tags. Title tags are irrelevant for accessibility? From W3C: Audio user agents may speak the title information in a similar context. For example, setting the attribute on a link allows user agents (visual and non-visual) to tell users about the nature of the linked resource. So where does that leave us? Here is the mark up for my menus (or see the site www.cofieldwines.com.au)... IMAGE MENU div id=menu ul id=nav lia id=Home title=Home href=index.jsp/a/li lia id=Wines title=Wines href=Wines.jsp/a/li lia id=CellarCircle title=Cellar Circle href=CellarCircle.jsp/a/li lia id=AboutUs title=About Us href=AboutUs.jsp/a/li lia id=ContactUs title=Contact Us href=ContactUs.jsp/a/li lia id=Links title=Links href=Links.jsp/a/li /ul /div HIDDEN MENU div id=textmenua title=Home href=index.jspHome/a | a title=Wines href=Wines.jspWines/a | a title=Cellar Circle href=CellarCircle.jspCellar Circle/a | a title=About Us href=AboutUs.jspAbout Us/a | a title=Contact Us href=ContactUs.jspContact Us/a | a title=Links href=Links.jspLinks/a/div Regards, Stuart Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Stuart Sherwood wrote: I have added a hidden menu to a site for those using text browsers or surfing with images turned off. The regular menu is image based but uses titles for accessibility, but this doesn't show in Lynx. You *ARE* giving those images suitable ALT attributes, I hope? TITLE is irrelevant for accessibility. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] page break up
Lori Cole wrote: Hi-I am new to CSS and strict. The URL I am having trouble with is http://members.cox.net/loricole.newhome.html. The style sheet is at http://members.cox.net.loricole/newtext.css. Please make sure you type the URIs correctly in the future and use '.' and '/' appropriately. http://members.cox.net/loricole/newtext.css http://members.cox.net/loricole/newhome.html The first problem I noticed in the CSS is that you have attempted to use comments like !--tab, !--heading--, etc. These are HTML comments, not CSS comments. (Also note that the first is an invalid HTML comment, but that's really irrelevant in this case). You need to use CSS comments in CSS and HTML comments in HTML. CSS comments are: /* comment */ Fixing these issues may solve some of your problems. -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Extra menu for when images are turned off
Stuart Sherwood wrote:
Sorry, I forgot to mention that the menu uses CSS Sprit rollovers so
there are no images
in the markup, therefore no alt tags.
They're *attributes*, not tags, please learn the correct terminology.
Title tags are irrelevant for accessibility?
No, they're not irrelevant, but they need to be used appropriately and
cannot be depended upon for giving information to the user.
lia id=Home title=Home href=index.jsp/a/li
Put the text inside the a element and use CSS to hide it. There are
still some accessibility problems with this method, but until more UAs
support the 'content' property on any element, there's not much you can
do about it.
try something like this:
a { background: ...; text-indent: -2000px; text-decoration: none; }
Look up image replacement techniques for more alternatives.
--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
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RE: [WSG] page break up
Hi Lori Your issue with the tabs can be quickly fixed by switching the order in your css of the #menu a:visited and #menu a:hover, so the hover is 'above' the visited declaration. The page break up looks like a guillotine bug. Need to dig more to find the cause for that! Regards Scott Swabey Lafinboy Productions www.lafinboy.com Lori Cole wrote: Subject: [WSG] page break up Also, I was intending for the hover of the tabs to be yellow but that does not happen. Thank you for any help. Lori ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Extra menu for when images are turned off
Thankyou for correcting my terminology.
Text-indent. That's just what I need! Thankyou Lachlan, its a much
better solution.
Stuart
Lachlan Hunt wrote:
Stuart Sherwood wrote:
Sorry, I forgot to mention that the menu uses CSS Sprit rollovers so
there are no images
in the markup, therefore no alt tags.
They're *attributes*, not tags, please learn the correct terminology.
Title tags are irrelevant for accessibility?
No, they're not irrelevant, but they need to be used appropriately and
cannot be depended upon for giving information to the user.
lia id=Home title=Home href=index.jsp/a/li
Put the text inside the a element and use CSS to hide it. There are
still some accessibility problems with this method, but until more UAs
support the 'content' property on any element, there's not much you
can do about it.
try something like this:
a { background: ...; text-indent: -2000px; text-decoration: none; }
Look up image replacement techniques for more alternatives.
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
RE: [WSG] page break up
Thanks Scott, The correct order of those elements is doing the trick. Yellow appears. I did change the CSS comments to be the CSS format but that has altered some other page's format like the form entry windows and text alignment in the client page. The blue line still appears on the home page. Lori -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Swabey - Lafinboy Productions Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 9:20 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] page break up Hi Lori Your issue with the tabs can be quickly fixed by switching the order in your css of the #menu a:visited and #menu a:hover, so the hover is 'above' the visited declaration. The page break up looks like a guillotine bug. Need to dig more to find the cause for that! Regards Scott Swabey Lafinboy Productions www.lafinboy.com Lori Cole wrote: Subject: [WSG] page break up Also, I was intending for the hover of the tabs to be yellow but that does not happen. Thank you for any help. Lori ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Extra menu for when images are turned off
Stuart Sherwood wrote:
I have added a hidden menu to a site for those using text browsers or
surfing with images turned off.
Avoid creating links without text, it's bad practice. Using small images
of text in you main navigation is bad too.
Things that make me go 'huh?'
1. If I turn off CSS while viewing you site I can see the bullet points
but no text.
2. If I view your site in Lynx (with my configuration) I see your empty
links as [Hidden Link].
3. My screen reader collects your links in it's link collection... I am
told there are 12 links but I can only see 6. (I can also collect these in
Lynx, in any configuration).
4. I have to tab past your 'hidden links' in any desktop browser (without
any feedback about what I am tabbing past) because they still appear in
the tab order.
5. I can't read your navigation labels because they are images, and my eye
sight is not good, but I do love wine.
Why not just add a span around the anchor text and move the span off-left?
Other benefits of using span are less page weight, and only one menu to
maintain.
HTML
lia href=someplace.htmlspanSome Place/span/ali
CSS
li a span {
position: absolute;
left: -px;
}
Even better, don't use images - the typeface is so plain I really wouldn't
notice the difference if it was helvetica, arial or something else - in
fact, it would look sharper. You can get the small caps effect with:
#textmenu a {
letter-spacing: 0.1em;
text-decoration: none;
font-variant: small-caps;
font-family: trebuchet ms,serif; /* you could even specify the corporate
font here */
}
kind regards
Terrence Wood.
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Re: [WSG] CSS Validators
What don't you want to use the W3C one? On Nov 23, 2005, at 5:42 PM, Geoff Pack wrote: Does anyone know of a downloadable CSS validator (other than the W3C one) that I can install on an local server to batch check files on my local network? We currently use the WDG html validator, but their CSS validator is not available for download. Cheers Geoff Pack ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] page break up
Jay Gilmore Developer/Consultant Affordable Websites and Marketing Solutions for Real Small Business. SmashingRed Web Marketing P) 902.529.0651 E) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lori Cole wrote: Thanks Scott, The correct order of those elements is doing the trick. Yellow appears. I did change the CSS comments to be the CSS format but that has altered some other page's format like the form entry windows and text alignment in the client page. The blue line still appears on the home page. Lori -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Scott Swabey - Lafinboy Productions Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 9:20 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] page break up Hi Lori Your issue with the tabs can be quickly fixed by switching the order in your css of the #menu a:visited and #menu a:hover, so the hover is 'above' the visited declaration. The page break up looks like a guillotine bug. Need to dig more to find the cause for that! Regards Scott Swabey Lafinboy Productions www.lafinboy.com Lori Cole wrote: Subject: [WSG] page break up Also, I was intending for the hover of the tabs to be yellow but that does not happen. Thank you for any help. Lori ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] CSS Validators
Geoff Pack wrote: ...install on an local server to batch check files on my local network? From: Steve Ferguson What don't you want to use the W3C one? ...files on my local network, if you're working on an intranet you can't use the w3c validators, unless you cut and paste, or upload files, which is a bother at times. -- Peter Williams ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] page break up
Lachlan Hunt said: !--tab is an invalid HTML comment how so? Please make sure you type the URIs correctly in the future and use '.' and '/' appropriately. minor typos are easy to ignore, and really don't warrant being commented on kind regards Terrence WOod. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Validators
On Nov 27, 2005, at 7:44 PM, Peter Williams wrote: Geoff Pack wrote: ...install on an local server to batch check files on my local network? From: Steve Ferguson What don't you want to use the W3C one? ...files on my local network, if you're working on an intranet you can't use the w3c validators, unless you cut and paste, or upload files, which is a bother at times. You can download and build the w3c css valididator. You can probably find a binary distribution, if not and you want one, let me know. I'll build one and make it available. -- Peter Williams ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] page break up
Lori, I am going to suggest that you download Firefox or Mozilla to develop with. You will find that IE is too forgiving and allows errors to fall through the cracks by trying to render the page vs. not parsing invalid code.It is better to learn to make it right and then tweak it for IE. I have a couple of things below: Your CSS doesn't actually validate. Please check it and correct all errors. When styling your the a pseudo classes, hover, active, visited. The way to ensure that the cascade works is through the "LoVe HAte" a:link, a:visited, a:hover (a:focus), a:active. I read somewhere that there was is a Star Wars reference that takes the focus into consideration. Try not to use absolute measurements other than pixels as they are rendered and or represented differently on different browsers and platforms. Using cm and inches is fine for printing stylesheets but can cause layout problems on screen. All the best, Jay Jay Gilmore Developer/Consultant Affordable Websites and Marketing Solutions for Real Small Business. SmashingRed Web Marketing P) 902.529.0651 E) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lori Cole wrote: Hi-I am new to CSS and strict. The URL I am having trouble with is http://members.cox.net/loricole.newhome.html. The style sheet is at http://members.cox.net.loricole/newtext.css. As you use the navigations tabs and go back to the home page, the blue background breaks up the white index card. Refreshing the screen stops it unless you tab through and cursor back again. I have IE v6. Also, I was intending for the hover of the tabs to be yellow but that does not happen. Thank you for any help. Lori
Re: [WSG] Extra menu for when images are turned off
Stuart, Try this http://tjkdesign.com/articles/tip.aspRegards, Irina.
Re: [WSG] page break up
Terrence Wood wrote: Lachlan Hunt said: !--tab is an invalid HTML comment how so? In SGML, the comment syntax is as follows: ! (Markup declaration open (MDO)) -- first comment --(Zero or more comments.) -- second comment -- (Markup declaration close (MDC)) Only white space (or nothing) may occur between comments (except that no whitespace may occur immediately after the MDO). So, breaking up the above comment into components, we see: !(MDO) --tab-- (comment 1) -- (start of comment 2, missing end --) (Missing MDC) If it were XHTML, it would be well-formedness error. However, since it was occuring in CSS, it wasn't really an (X)HTML comment, it was just using the syntax and I felt it worthwhile to mention so that the same mistake isn't made within HTML. -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Validators
On Nov 23, 2005, at 5:42 PM, Geoff Pack wrote: Does anyone know of a downloadable CSS validator (other than the W3C one) that I can install on an local server to batch check files on my local network? We currently use the WDG html validator, but their CSS validator is not available for download. Firefox 1.5 and higher will report CSS errors in the JavaScript console. It won't do batch files, unfortunately, but I find it more convenient than a validator anyway, since it tells me as I'm writing and previewing them. -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] page break up
Lord Vader's Former Handle, Anakin link, visited, focus, hover, active Always in that order! -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] page break up
From: Terrence Wood Lachlan Hunt said: !--tab is an invalid HTML comment how so? Perhaps not by strict definition, but the following reference explains where Lachlan is probably coming from. http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/wilbur/misc/comment.html I like to stick with the !-- comment -- method to avoid any potential problems. -- Peter Williams ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] page break up
Jay Gilmore wrote: 2. When styling your the a pseudo classes, hover, active, visited. The way to ensure that the cascade works is through the LoVe HAte a:link, a:visited, a:hover (a:focus), a:active. I read somewhere that there was is a Star Wars reference that takes the focus into consideration. Lord Vader's Handle Formerly Anakin http://mezzoblue.com/css/cribsheet/#lovehate -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] page break up
Lachlan Hunt said: In SGML, the comment syntax is as follows: I believe your original comment was that it was invalid HTML. While similar, the SGML rule differs from HTML in it's treatment of whitespace, and the example you provided is, in fact, invalid HTML. The recommendation[1] goes on to say authors should avoid multiple hyphens together in comments, however mulitple hyphens do not invalidate the document (otherwise, I presume, the recommendation would read MUST avoid multiple hyphens, and the validators would flag multiple occurances of them). EXAMPLES: !-- html style valid comment -- ! -- SGML style invalid comment -- [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/intro/sgmltut.html#h-3.2.4 kind regards Terrence Wood. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] page break up
Christian Montoya wrote: Lord Vader's Former Handle, Anakin link, visited, focus, hover, active Always in that order! Yeah -- that's it! -Jay Jay Gilmore Developer/Consultant Affordable Websites and Marketing Solutions for Real Small Business. SmashingRed Web Marketing P) 902.529.0651 E) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [WSG] Extra menu for when images are turned off
I think I have come up with a more elegant solution now. There is only one menu with each link formatted like this: lia id=Home title=Home href=index.jspbr /Home/a/li The br pushes the text under the header so it isn't visable to regular users but accessable when images are turned off. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] page break up
Terrence Wood wrote: Lachlan Hunt said: In SGML, the comment syntax is as follows: I believe your original comment was that it was invalid HTML. While similar, the SGML rule differs from HTML in it's treatment of whitespace, There is no formal difference between HTML4 and SGML comments, as HTML is an application of SGML which follows SGML rules. On the practical side of things, however, browsers will handle various forms of invalid comments in various ways, but that doesn't make them any less invalid, nor alter the formal HTML comment syntax. and the example you provided is, in fact, invalid HTML. Note that I broke the comment onto multiple lines in order to explain each component clearly, and I did mention that whitespace could not follow the MDO and that only whitespace could occur between comments. I thought it was clear that the notes in parenthesis were just that, and not actually part of the comment. The recommendation[1] That part of the rec should be treated as being informative, rather than normative. goes on to say authors should avoid multiple hyphens together in comments, however mulitple hyphens do not invalidate the document (otherwise, I presume, the recommendation would read MUST avoid multiple hyphens, and the validators would flag multiple occurances of them). It says *should* because it still uses SGML comment syntax, but authors should avoid using it because a) browser support is limited (and was much more limited at the time of writing) and b) most authors are unlikely to understand the SGML comment syntax, and it's advisable for authors to simply avoid strings of hyphens, rather than worry about all the technical details. If it said *must*, then that would not comply with SGML rules. eg. !-- this is a valid -- -- comment declaration -- !-- this -- is not -- valid -- Run those through the validator to confirm that, if you like. [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/intro/sgmltut.html#h-3.2.4 -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Extra menu for when images are turned off
Stuart Sherwood wrote:
I think I have come up with a more elegant solution now.
There is only one menu with each link formatted like this:
lia id=Home title=Home href=index.jspbr /Home/a/li
The br pushes the text under the header so it isn't visable to regular
users but accessable when images are turned off.
In that case, just use
a { padding-top: 1.2em; height: 0; }
(leave overflow: visible;, or it won't be visible without images)
Then make sure the header image does cover up the text. There's no need
to pollute the markup with unnecessary presentational uses for elements.
You may run into some trouble in IE with that because of the way it
treats 'height' somewhat like 'min-height', but you should be able to
get it to work.
--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
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