Re: [WSG] CSS Driven?

2005-12-17 Thread Bob Schwartz

Terrence.

Plus I don't want to get into the quirks of clients in this  
thread, I'd like to concentrate on finding a solution to a real  
problem that is as reliable (browser-wise) and as easy to  
implement as it is with a table,


Sure... clients who needs them? But see the real problem is clients  
making design decisions that may not be appropriate for the shape  
of the market today (and tomorrow). And given that they aren't  
designers... how can they make effective design decisions, if you  
don't tell them what works best?


In other words, Terrance, the goal is a design as described above  
and the solution can't be change the design, but has to be: attain  
the design without a table.


My apologies, I never realised the visual design was non-negotiable.


The point of both of these statements was to try and keep the thread  
on topic i.e; a solution to a specific, clearly defined problem in  
which the only choice is to realize it as stated, preferrably without  
a table.


It obviously didn't work.

I had hoped those of you making assumptions about the side bits,  
would leave aside your assumptions and take up the challenge on the  
actual problem.


I didn't want to write War and Peace to explain that I have indeed  
tried to sway the client, have used intelligent arguments, etc., etc.  
ad nauseum to keep this thread from getting lost in those arguments,  
but maybe I should have.


An example of the assumptions: you (or someone) said a design of this  
1998 type should never have been presented to the client. Where in  
anything I said did I say I presented the design? Maybe the client  
came to me with his design and for the purpose of my original  
question, what does it really matter?


how can they make effective design decisions, if you don't tell  
them what works best?


Why do you assume I didn't? Its this type of flawed assumptions that  
has caused this thread to wander all over the landscape without  
arriving at a solution to the problem at hand.



Plus I don't want to get into the quirks of clients in this thread,

Sure... clients who needs them?


A clear statement of my intent and your snide comment which shows you  
didn't get it.

Do you think you are being helpful? Believe me, you're not.

bob






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Re: [WSG] CSS Driven?

2005-12-17 Thread Rick Faaberg
 Why do you assume I didn't? Its this type of flawed assumptions that
 has caused this thread to wander all over the landscape without
 arriving at a solution to the problem at hand.

And over the last few months, the list has devolved into unending threads
that serve nothing wrt web standards. Most threads *never* end!

I'm leaving. I'll check back in a few months and see what's goin' on.

Have fun!

Rick Faaberg

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Re: [WSG] Frames ?

2005-12-17 Thread Terrence Wood

On 17 Dec 2005, at 6:46 PM, Thierry Koblentz wrote:


Terrence Wood wrote:

Have I missed something or is this just, erm, frames using javascript
instead of a static page?


I'm not sure I understand your question.
Isn't what the OP is looking for? Being able to link to *and* frame 
other

web sites?



The OP asked if there is a web standards and CSS way to maintain his 
clients branding for remote sites, and while recognising that frames 
will achieve this wondered if there is an alternative.


Frames do form part of HTML so, provided they validate, then that is 
standards design. There is no way to brand a remote site without frames 
or without having the branding served by the remote site e.g. via the 
refer header, or some such mechanism.


The thread has moved on to suggest alternatives to frames in their 
entirety given the usability issues of frames, and the ethical issues 
around framing content which owned by a third party. The alternatives 
revolve around some variation of linking to the site.


You solution is (from my cursory look) a script driven frames 
implementation, as opposed to a static file based one, and I questioned 
it because it didn't seem to add anything at this point and usually 
your contributions are both excellent and timely.



kind regards
Terrence Wood.

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Re: [WSG] CSS Driven?

2005-12-17 Thread Bob Schwartz

Christian,


Do these table layouts go in your portfolio?


Since you asked. I have my very first site in my portfolio and it is  
a nested table/spacer gif monster.
But except for you guys, I doubt if anyone has ever done a view  
source on the site.



Do these clients
recommend you to others as one of those designers who will still do
those 1998 designs we like so much?


No, they recommend me because I did a site they liked.
Outside this list, I doubt if anyone thinks in terms of 1998 sites.


I guess the big question is, how
do these designs affect your image as a standards based designer?


The big answer is: they don't. We all started somewhere.
However, if it will help you sleep better: at the first re-do of the  
site, the nested tables and spacer gifs will go.



My thinking is that if I ever had to do one of these sites, I would
not put it in my portfolio. I would have made it clear to the client
that I was doing it against my own good judgement and I would never
want someone to think it was something I would do again.


Maybe if I hang around you long enough, one day, I too will become  
arrogant, but I doubt it.


bob

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Re: [WSG] CSS Driven?

2005-12-17 Thread Terrence Wood

On 17 Dec 2005, at 9:04 PM, Bob Schwartz wrote:

Do you think you are being helpful? Believe me, you're not.
I think I made it pretty clear that I was having a general rant, not 
talking directly to you Bob. I was just using your situation as a 
jumping off point.


On 17 Dec 2005, at 9:06 AM, Terrence Wood wrote:
Again, nothing personal Bob, this rant is for any designer who has 
clients wanting that 1998 look.


And in fact, I have had off-list responses thanking me for my 
contribution to this thread.


On 16 Dec 2005, at 11:44 PM, Bob Schwartz wrote:

No can do Bob. I showed you the solution.
End of story: solution, choices made, move on :)


Yes Sir. Thank you Sir. I will just fold my table and slink away.
It's been a honor being in your illustrious presence.
I will return when I feel more worthy .


Obviously you haven't found this thread helpful, but others have.

I'm really not sure what you are looking for Bob, but clearly, we are 
two different people.


kind regards
Terrence Wood.

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Re: [WSG] CSS Driven?

2005-12-17 Thread Bob Schwartz

Terrence,


Obviously you haven't found this thread helpful, but others have.


Oddly enough I have, though the (seems to be) answer came in off list.
If after doing some testing, the solution does indeed work as I need  
it to, I will post it for those who remember what the original  
question was.


I'm really not sure what you are looking for Bob, but clearly, we  
are two different people.


Probably not, just the pitfalls of communicating by e-mail. If we  
were sitting at an outdoor cafe sipping a good coffee, watching  
pretty girls go by and having this discussion, it would have an all- 
together different flavor.


Bob
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[WSG] XHTML1.1 differences - was [ Fixed Height: Headers and Footers]

2005-12-17 Thread designer

Christian Montoya wrote:

[snip  ]

Are you serving the webpages as mime-type application/xhtml+xml ?
Because that is the only mime-type that should be used with XHTML 1.1.
Otherwise if you are going to use text/html then you should use
XHTML 1.0 Strict or HTML 4.01 Strict. There are only 3, exactly 3
differences between XHTML 1.0 Strict and XHTML 1.1, and unless you are
serving application/xhtml+xml you should not be using 1.1.

If you want to know why there's a thread in the archives all about that.

--

Hi Christian,

Only 3 differences? I seem to remember more than a dozen . . .  What are 
your 3?  I am genuinely interested in compiling a list of these 
differences.  I recently made the transition from XHTML1.0 strict to 1.1 
and I was quite stunned by some of the simple things which failed to 
work in the latter without modification.  I also found that references 
to these mods were scattered around and I thought it was time to 'get 
them together'.


--
Best Regards,

Bob McClelland

Cornwall (UK)
www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk


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Re: [WSG] XHTML1.1 differences

2005-12-17 Thread Lachlan Hunt

designer wrote:

Are you serving the webpages as mime-type application/xhtml+xml ?
Because that is the only mime-type that should be used with XHTML 1.1.


It can also use application/xml or text/xml (although it's best to avoid 
text/xml completely), or other appropriate XML MIME type.


Only 3 differences? I seem to remember more than a dozen . . .  What are 
your 3?


There's 3 listed in the XHTML 1.1 Appendix A [1].  However, there are 
other undocumented changes too.  One that I can remember is that the 
usemap attribute changed from a URI in HTML 4.01 and XHTML 1.0 to an 
IDREF in XHTML 1.1.


That means for image maps, it must be written using a fragment 
identifier like this in XHTML 1.0:

img ... usmap=#foo

but like this in XHTML 1.1:
img ... usmap=foo

Both refer to:
map id=foo/

I've no doubt there are other differences too, but I've never really 
gone through and looked hard enough myself.


[1] http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/changes.html#a_changes

--
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http://lachy.id.au/

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Re: [WSG] Site Critic

2005-12-17 Thread Srecko Micic
Uf, needs much more work. As Jay said it's bold move by posting this
site to this group. Follow the standards but first learn them.
All the best,

2005/12/16, Jay Gilmore [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  This is a standards group and as such I think it would be best  if you
 checked your sites in a browser that was more standards compliant than IE6
 both of these layouts break in Firefox 1.5. On top of it all this is a
 tables based layout that doesn't even work cross browser. There is nothing
 in this layout that couldn't be accomplished using Cascading Style Sheets.
 Your page doesn't validate according to doctype HTML 4.01 and you have all
 sorts of deprecated tag usage such as font.

  Honestly, you are making a bold move by posting these sites to this group.
  All the best,

  Jay


  Boteler, Cheree wrote:

 Hi everyone:

 I was wondering if any of you would be willing to look at my new sites and
 critic them.  Any comments would be great!

 Thanks!

 http://econdev.sierrapacific.com

 http://econdev.nevadapower.com



 Cheree Boteler
 Web Marketing Consultant
 Economic Development
 Sierra Pacific Power Company
 6100 Neil Road
 Reno, NV 89501
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 (775) 834.3755
 Fax: (775) 834.3384
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Re: [WSG] Site Critic

2005-12-17 Thread James O'Neill
Cheree ,One of the first things you will want to do is to validate your code. That will be of a tremedous help not only to your development process, but it will also go a long way towards getting more answers here. Validation is your friend!!
You can pick up Chris Pedericks developer tool bar for Firefoxhttp://chrispederick.com/work/webdeveloper/or something similar here for Internet Explorer:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=e59c3964-672d-4511-bb3e-2d5e1db91038DisplayLang=en
If you do not have the Firefox browser, get it! It is your best friend!http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/My BLog has a bunuch of links that may be of interes such as:
http://www.alistapart.com/http://www.htmldog.com/http://www.w3schools.com/that can Super-Charge your standards development journey! 
Welcome to the list! =)JimOn 12/16/05, Boteler, Cheree [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





Hi 
everyone:

I was wondering if 
any of you would be willing to look at my new sites and critic them. Any 
comments would be great!

Thanks!

http://econdev.sierrapacific.com

http://econdev.nevadapower.com



Cheree Boteler
Web Marketing Consultant
Economic Development
Sierra Pacific PowerCompany
6100 Neil Road
Reno, NV 89501
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(775) 834.3755
Fax: (775) 
834.3384

-- __Bugs are, by definition, necessary. Just ask Microsoft!www.co.sauk.wi.us
 (Work)www.arionshome.com (Personal)www.freexenon.com (Consulting)__Take Back the Web with Mozilla Fire Fox 
http://www.getfirefox.comMaking a Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standardshttp://www.maccaws.org/Web Standards Project
http://www.webstandards.org/Web Standards Grouphttp://www.webstandardsgroup.org/Guild of Accessible Web Designers
http://www.gawds.org/


Re: [WSG] Site Critic

2005-12-17 Thread James O'Neill
Cheree,

One of the first things I will say it looks like  you might be writing
this in MS Frontpage!

You have a lot of inline javascipt:

Your may want to take a look at Unobtrusive Javascript

http://www.onlinetools.org/articles/unobtrusivejavascript/

Keeping your javascript in an external file will be more efficient and
make it easier to maintain.

Sierra Pacific

Counties: This can be done in all CSS (AlistAPart has great
examples).A CSS solution will be more search engine friendly and
accessible.

Nevada Industrial Parks sections: You can create this using headers
and Paragraph tags instead of multiple br  tags. This type of
solution will be more semantically correct.

h2 a href=industrialparks/index.htmNevada Industrial Parks/a/h2
pView a list of industrial parks within Nevada./p

h2a href=taxes.htmNevada Taxes/Incentives/ah2
pThe incentives of doing business in Nevada are expansive.
Nevada boasts
one of the most liberal tax structures in the nation and from
a tax-planning
perspective, the return on investment in the form of tax saving dollars
can be enormous. Explore the numerous advantages of doing business in
Nevada./p

h2a href=documents/overview.pdfNorthern Nevada Overview/a/h2
 .


Contact Info Section: A similar solution of using headers would be
good and more semantically correct. Also a definition list would be a
good set of tags to use here for the pictures and associated
information.

h2CONTACT INFO/h2
dl
dta href=about.htm#simsimg src=images/grant.gif
alt=Grant Sims align=left border=0 height=57 width=45Grant
  Sims/a/dt
  ddManagerbr
 775.834.5742br
  a href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]/a/p

/dd
dta href=about.htm#woodringimg src=images/brad.gif
alt=Brad Woodring align=right border=0 height=57
width=48Brad
   Woodring/adt
ddExecutivebr
  775.834.3716br
  a href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]/a/p
/dd
 /dl

I will not go into the multiple h1 issue. Some believe that there
should only be one H1 per page, like me, and the rest believe that it
is OK! The specification sure does not help. My opinion is that there
should only be one h1 per page, take it for what it is worth. =)

Just some thoughts to get you going! Similar things can be said of the
other site as well!

Good luck,
Jim!

--
__
Bugs are, by definition, necessary.
Just ask Microsoft!

www.freexenon.com (Consulting)
www.arionshome.com (Personal)

__
Take Back the Web with Mozilla Fire Fox
http://www.getfirefox.com

Making a Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards
http://www.maccaws.org/

Web Standards Project
http://www.webstandards.org/

Web Standards Group
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Re: [WSG] Fixed Height: Headers and Footers

2005-12-17 Thread CHRISTOPHER MEEK
Thanks for your pointers, unfortunately it's for a client intranet site and they exclusively use I.E. 6 (more's the pitty) . I modified your suggestion to used position: absolute and have a fixed height (which i can just about work with), which although means i don't get the same scroll bar behaviour does seem to work fine.Am I right in thinking i would use the "MIME Map" section of the "Http Headers" tab in the IIS properties for a particular site to change how the pages are served?Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  On 12/16/05, CHRISTOPHER MEEK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: I'm attempting to move a site away from using 10's of nested tables towards using just CSS I have a layout with 3 vertical elements, a header a footer and the
 content The header, obviously sits quietly at the top of the screen but will chane size depending on content The content comes next with overflow: auto so that it scrolls as needed The footer needs to sit permanently at the bottom of the screen.What you really want is a fixed header and footer. I'm not sure howdesirable this is since this consumes a lot of screen space, but formost browsers it's as simple as applying position:fixed to both divs.So you would have:#header { position:fixed; top:0; left:0; width:100%; }#footer { position:fixed; bottom:0; left:0; width:100%; }The reason to use position:fixed is that it allows the user to usetheir default browser scrollbar to scroll the content, which is muchmore accessible than internal scrollbars. The problem is getting thisto work with older browsers like IE 6. If you really want to consumethe space and you want
 to take the time to make this work withbrowsers like IE 6, let us know.Otherwise if you don't care so much about the accessibility part thenyou can just combine some other form of position and give the contentoverflow:auto.I'm sure someone else can explain one of these techniques better than I can. Plus, I'm using an XHTML 1.1 doctype.Are you serving the webpages as mime-type "application/xhtml+xml" ?Because that is the only mime-type that should be used with XHTML 1.1.Otherwise if you are going to use "text/html" then you should useXHTML 1.0 Strict or HTML 4.01 Strict. There are only 3, exactly 3differences between XHTML 1.0 Strict and XHTML 1.1, and unless you areserving "application/xhtml+xml" you should not be using 1.1.If you want to know why there's a thread in the archives all about that.Christian Montoyachristianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ...
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[WSG] the kind of assignment that makes you want to scream

2005-12-17 Thread Ted Drake








Can you imagine being the one stuck with creating this
navigation scheme?

http://shop2.outpost.com/product/4600108?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG



holy moley, mother of all tabs. It makes me itch just
looking at it. 



Ted Drake

Front-end
Engineer

Yahoo! Tech










Re: [WSG] the kind of assignment that makes you want to scream

2005-12-17 Thread Marko Mihelcic - founder of mcville.net (http.//www.mcville.net)|(http://board.mcville.net)
lol heh m8 I'm like O_O nah this can't be posible :) Good luck :)2005/12/17, Ted Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED]:













Can you imagine being the one stuck with creating this
navigation scheme?


http://shop2.outpost.com/product/4600108?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG



holy moley, mother of all tabs. It makes me itch just
looking at it. 



Ted Drake

Front-end
Engineer

Yahoo! Tech












RE: [WSG] the kind of assignment that makes you want to scream

2005-12-17 Thread Duckworth, Nigel
 Can you imagine being the one stuck with creating this navigation
scheme?
 http://shop2.outpost.com/product/4600108?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

Ouch. Didn't Amazon look like that for a while? 

Buy a House | Sell a House | Adopt a Child | Sell a Child...

-Nigel
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Re: [WSG] the kind of assignment that makes you want to scream

2005-12-17 Thread Zulema

Ted Drake wrote:


Can you imagine being the one stuck with creating this navigation scheme?

http://shop2.outpost.com/product/4600108?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

 


holy moley, mother of all tabs. It makes me itch just looking at it.

Who agreed that having the pull-downs cover up some of the tabs on the 
rows was all right? The Apple Computer pull down menu covers up a 
large chunk of tabs below. Yikes!


--
Zulema Ortiz
Web Designer
folio: http://zoblue.com
blog: http://blog.zoblue.com
browser: http://getfirefox.com

Whenever you're in conflict with someone, there is one factor that can 
make the
difference between damaging your relationship and deepening it. That 
factor is

attitude.
- William James.
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Re: [WSG] the kind of assignment that makes you want to scream

2005-12-17 Thread Terrence Wood

On 18 Dec 2005, at 9:16 AM, Ted Drake wrote:
Can you imagine being the one stuck with creating this navigation 
scheme?
Yes, but worse, can you imagine being stuck using this nav without a 
search function?


Now, just to steal your thread Ted, will the fans of drop down menus 
please visit this site and actually try to use it. It is a pretty good 
example of what to avoid in a main navigation system.



If you don't want to visit it here is my internal dialogue during the 
first 10 seconds visiting this site.


Ever so slightly Amazon-esque pre the 'see all 32' tab, but with less 
categories. OK so far, what is Ted talking about?


3 levels of tabs? Hmm, anyone who's used Word should feel right at 
home. Hopefully they don't reorder the tabs like word when you click 
one. OK so far.


[moves mouse to tab]
Oh, how inspired! Tabs and dropdowns... Up to four levels to boot! 
Itch? My brain is melting! Where's the search?


To be fair, if you turn off js and just use the tabs and the left hand 
navigation, the site navigation is pretty good. But dropdowns? Just say 
no.


kind regards
Terrence Wood.

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Re: [WSG] the kind of assignment that makes you want to scream

2005-12-17 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Ted Drake wrote:
 Can you imagine being the one stuck with creating this navigation
 scheme? 
 
 http://shop2.outpost.com/product/4600108?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG


Hi Ted,
Wow! Graphic tabs + flyout menu altogether!
Jaws announces 128 links on the home page ;)

Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] the kind of assignment that makes you want to scream

2005-12-17 Thread Kenny Graham
i like tabs as much as anybody else, but when it's _that_ bad, it's
time to move them from the top to the side.  wouldn't look nearly as
bad as a vertical nav, and wouldnt have the flyouts covering 50% of
the remaining nav
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Re: [WSG] XHTML1.1 differences

2005-12-17 Thread Christian Montoya
On 12/17/05, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 designer wrote:
  Only 3 differences? I seem to remember more than a dozen . . .  What are
  your 3?

 There's 3 listed in the XHTML 1.1 Appendix A [1].  However, there are
 other undocumented changes too.

That's what I was remembering. Probably shouldn't have said that so
matter-of-factly.

--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com
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Re: [WSG] XHTML1.1 differences

2005-12-17 Thread José Kusunoki Gutiérrez

Hello,
Does anyone can help me?
I want to know why in IE my side bar is wrong i mean the bullets are not in 
the rigth place, and when i see it in Firefox its ok... is there a css hack 
that i need for IE?

Thanks for your help.

- Original Message - 
From: Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] XHTML1.1 differences


On 12/17/05, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

designer wrote:
 Only 3 differences? I seem to remember more than a dozen . . .  What are
 your 3?

There's 3 listed in the XHTML 1.1 Appendix A [1].  However, there are
other undocumented changes too.


That's what I was remembering. Probably shouldn't have said that so
matter-of-factly.

--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com
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[WSG] Help with CSS ul

2005-12-17 Thread José Kusunoki Gutiérrez



Hello,Does 
anyone can help me?I want to know why in IE my side bar is wrong i mean the 
bullets are not in the rigth place, and when i see it in Firefox its ok... 
is there a css hack that i need for IE?Thanks for your 
help.
PD: Sorry about the last message that i sent it had 
the wrong subject accidentally

--José Kusunoki 
G.Diseñador[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.constantconcept.com(511) 
97004563


Re: [WSG] Help with CSS ul

2005-12-17 Thread matt
Jose - Probably a margin padding issue.  Try reducing the padding margin
and position the bullets with the xy positioning on the background rule
for the li or a:li.

I'm not that great with css, you'll probably get some better answers.
Have a nice holiday.
Matt


 Hello,
 Does anyone can help me?
 I want to know why in IE my side bar is wrong i mean the bullets are not
 in
 the rigth place, and when i see it in Firefox its ok... is there a css
 hack
 that i need for IE?
 Thanks for your help.

 PD: Sorry about the last message that i sent it had the wrong subject
 accidentally

 --
 José Kusunoki G.
 Diseñador
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 www.constantconcept.com
 (511) 97004563


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Re: [WSG] Help with CSS ul

2005-12-17 Thread Lachlan Hunt

José Kusunoki Gutiérrez wrote:
I want to know why in IE my side bar is wrong i mean the bullets are not in 
the rigth place, and when i see it in Firefox its ok... is there a css hack 
that i need for IE?


No-one can possibly offer you any useful advice on how to solve this 
problem because you haven't provided a link, we can't see the problem 
for ourselves, we don't know what styles you have applied and thus have 
no idea what may be causing the issue in IE.


It may be a simple case of making sure you set the margin and padding on 
the ul and li elements, as they do have different default values in 
different browsers.  It could be a double-margin float bug.  It could be 
one of many thousands of IE bugs.


Start at position is everything, look through the IE bugs and see if you 
can find one that resembles your problem.  If not, provide much more 
information about your page.  A link to the page is the most useful.


http://positioniseverything.net/


PD: Sorry about the last message that i sent it had the wrong subject 
accidentally


It's not a good idea to start a new thread by replying to another 
message in a completely unrelated thread.  Simply changing the subject 
and deleting the quote (Both of which you initially failed to do.) isn't 
good enough either, since the message may still contain headers that 
indicate which thread it's in.  Always start a new thread by creating a 
new message.


--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/

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Re: [WSG] Help with CSS ul

2005-12-17 Thread Jorge Laranjo

I think that is http://www.constantconcept.com/

On 18/12/05 1:25, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 No-one can possibly offer you any useful advice on how to solve this
 problem because you haven't provided a link, we can't see the problem
 for ourselves, we don't know what styles you have applied and thus have
 no idea what may be causing the issue in IE.


-- 
Atentamente,
Jorge Laranjo

email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
gTalk  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
msn  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
aim  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
skype jorge.laranjo
http://www.olhares.com/fueg0/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fueg0/


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Re: [WSG] Help with CSS ul

2005-12-17 Thread Lachlan Hunt

Jorge Laranjo wrote:

On 18/12/05 1:25, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


No-one can possibly offer you any useful advice on how to solve this
problem because you haven't provided a link, we can't see the problem
for ourselves, we don't know what styles you have applied and thus have
no idea what may be causing the issue in IE.


I think that is http://www.constantconcept.com/


My mistake, I didn't look in the sig.  Although, it's generally a good 
idea to explicitly state which site is being talked about in the body of 
the message anyway.


--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/

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[WSG] So Sorry

2005-12-17 Thread José Kusunoki Gutiérrez


though that i had put 
it

www.constantconcept.com
and the css is
http://constantconcept.com/wp-content/themes/mio/style.css

Thank you very much and sorry again about i didnt 
put the links

--José Kusunoki 
G.Diseñador[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.constantconcept.com(511) 
97004563


Re: [WSG] Help with CSS ul

2005-12-17 Thread russ - maxdesign
Hey Jose,

It seems that you are referring to the li elements within the
#contentright div?

I don¹t have IE in front of me but there is a known whitespace bug to do
with IE and list items.

There are a range of methods that can be used to fix it including:

1. floating the li

2. setting the a element to display block, moving the background image to
this element and then adding display: inline to overcome whitespace
issues. 

3. using negative margins on the li

4. playing with border-bottom on the li

Best to try them all and see which suits your needs.

On another note, you seem to have linked to the one css file twice in the
head of your document.

First link:
link rel=stylesheet
href=http://constantconcept.com/wp-content/themes/mio/style.css;
type=text/css media=screen /

Second link:
style type=text/css
!--
@import url(http://constantconcept.com/wp-content/themes/mio/style.css;);
--
/style

If the aim is to hide styles from older browsers, the second method may be
best, but it would definitely be best to link to the same file only once...
Unless I am missing something here  :)

Finally, everyone stuffs up their first post or two to mail lists. I think I
stuffed up my first 20 or so... Don't stress about it!

HTH
Russ


 Hello,
 Does anyone can help me?
 I want to know why in IE my side bar is wrong i mean the bullets are not in
 the rigth place, and when i see it in Firefox its ok... is there a css hack
 that i need for IE?
 Thanks for your help.
 PD: Sorry about the last message that i sent it had the wrong subject
 accidentally


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[WSG] Posting and discussions on the WSG list

2005-12-17 Thread russ - maxdesign
Hi all,

Generally speaking, the WSG list has a great vibe - with members helping
each other and offering advice. However, I have been concerned with a recent
trend on list. There seems to be an element of lecturing, chest beating and
heavy-handed criticism.

Can I ask all members to think of a few things before posting. We should all
avoid:

- Posts that criticise other people or their opinion.
- Posting to show other people how clever we are.
- Continuing threads that have obviously moved away from open discussion
into dogmatic stances and set opinions.

The aim of this list is not to scare people off, to put people down or to
hammer people with your opinion. The aim of posting is to help others and to
stimulate discussion around the topic of web standards.

For new members, a few simple guides that may help you as well as helping
those that want to help you (and possibly even help those who want to help
those who want to help you - but I should stop before I get dizzy).

1. Set up a sample page that shows just the problem in action.
2. Validate your HTML code
3. Validate your CSS code
4. Test the page on a range of browsers - as many as you can get access to.
5. Post your problem to the list with the following info:
- a link to the sample url
- a link to the css file if it is separate
- a short, clear explanation of the problem
- a list of browsers and how they render the problem

M Sound familiar?
http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm

A final request... Please don't respond to this on-list - feel free to abuse
me OFFLIST!  :)

Peace!
Russ

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Re: [WSG] Help with CSS ul

2005-12-17 Thread Steve Clason

On 12/17/2005 5:36 PM José Kusunoki Gutiérrez wrote:


I want to know why in IE my side bar is wrong i mean the bullets are not in
the rigth place, and when i see it in Firefox its ok... is there a css hack
that i need for IE?


Hi José,

I don't think you need a hack for IE, just to set the line height for 
#contentright li. I did this:


#contentright li{
  background: url(images/flech.gif) no-repeat left top;
  font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
  font-size: 0.7em;
  line-height: 1.2; /*!!! new !!!*/
  margin: 5px;
  padding: 3px 0 2px 13px;
}

And the right section looks OK in IE and Firefox, although the 
difference in font size remains.


--
Steve Clason
Web Design and Development
Boulder, Colorado, USA
www.topdogstrategy.com
(303)818-8590

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Re: [WSG] Help with CSS ul

2005-12-17 Thread Thierry Koblentz
José Kusunoki Gutiérrez wrote:
 Hello,
 Does anyone can help me?
 I want to know why in IE my side bar is wrong i mean the bullets are
 not in
 the rigth place, and when i see it in Firefox its ok... is there a
 css hack
 that i need for IE?
 Thanks for your help.

José,
Before you try to fix the issue with CSS, try removing the whitespace
between the list items in the markup.
IE has a problem with whitespace in there.

HTH,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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