[WSG] google chrome frame

2010-01-03 Thread tee
This new kid has been showing up in a number of sites' stats that I  
built.


Wonder if this may spread the use of HTML 5, also curious what benefit  
will it be for us web developers to push IE6 down to 18th level of hell.


For those corporations that are still using W2K and IE6, will IE6  
renders like Google Chrome if user installs Google Chrome Frame and  
that a site has it implemented?


It seems to be.

Quote: Users running Internet Explorer with Google Chrome Frame  
installed will automatically have their pages rendered by Google  
Chrome Frame


However it does not answered if we need to worry about fixing IE6 or  
not.


tee


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***



Re: [WSG] google chrome frame

2010-01-03 Thread David Dorward
On 3 Jan 2010, at 09:32, tee wrote:
 For those corporations that are still using W2K and IE6, will IE6 renders 
 like Google Chrome if user installs Google Chrome Frame and that a site has 
 it implemented?

Most of those corporations don't allow end users to install software, and 
Chrome frame appears to require XP or newer (so you can count Win2k users out).

 However it does not answered if we need to worry about fixing IE6 or not.


This nudges the effective usage of IE6 down a little, but the browser is still 
out there and you still need to decide about the relative merits of supporting 
those users Vs. not doing a lot of work.

-- 
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***



Re: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs

2010-01-03 Thread Frances de Waal

Hi Jamie,

So good to hear it from people who actually use speech.
I also think it makes most sense to use a paragraph for each verse and  
a break per line. After avoiding breaks I begin to get used on the idea.


Thanks,
Frances

Op 30 dec 2009, om 15:41 heeft Smith, Jamie het volgende geschreven:

I work for Blind Services.  This was an interesting question, so I  
sought out two folks that use speech and benefit from coding  
correctly.


The two blind folks that use speech , one an English major, one a  
verse writer, noted they would prefer that the code was done so  
verses equate to paragraph.  They don’t want to read poems as lists.  
And both often use the paragraph level to read poems to better enjoy  
them.  Paragraph by line, they both noted would make it too choppy  
if using the paragraph level to read the poem.


So, I’d use the paragraph code at the front of the verse, each line  
having a line break.



From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org  
[mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Frances de Waal

Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 3:42 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs

Hi there,

May I ask your opinion about some semantic/HTML basics?

In case of a poem, if I place every verse in a paragraph, what do I  
do with each line of text in the verse? Is this one of the very few  
occasions to use breaks? A verse doesn't seem a list to me... or is  
it? I like your opinion.


In the very few tutorials I have seen about how to markup a form  
semantically, both were using  a list in the form. To me that seems  
totally unneccessary plus too much markup. Does anyone know what can  
be the reason of doing it that way?


InContextEditing, the online CMS from Adobe, needs a extra div for  
every editable region. This makes me avoiding the tool. Some keep  
saying that extra divs don't make any difference to a page at all. I  
agree they have no meaning semantically, but they do create extra  
code which is not neccessary for the content. But then again, we  
don't talk about 100 divs here. So, besides of best practice, is  
there any place where the extra divs may have bad influence?


Frances de Waal
www.waalweb.nl

***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***

***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***


Re: [WSG] google chrome frame

2010-01-03 Thread David McKinnon
In our large-ish corporate environment we're stuck with IE6 as our default 
probably for another year :(

While we know that people have installed newer browsers——IE7 is authorised, but 
not the default--we still can't stop supporting IE6.


On 03/01/2010, at 8:54 PM, David Dorward wrote:

 On 3 Jan 2010, at 09:32, tee wrote:
 For those corporations that are still using W2K and IE6, will IE6 renders 
 like Google Chrome if user installs Google Chrome Frame and that a site has 
 it implemented?
 
 Most of those corporations don't allow end users to install software, and 
 Chrome frame appears to require XP or newer (so you can count Win2k users 
 out).
 
 However it does not answered if we need to worry about fixing IE6 or not.
 
 
 This nudges the effective usage of IE6 down a little, but the browser is 
 still out there and you still need to decide about the relative merits of 
 supporting those users Vs. not doing a lot of work.
 
 -- 
 David Dorward
 http://dorward.me.uk
 
 
 
 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
 ***
 



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***



RE: [WSG] google chrome frame

2010-01-03 Thread Steve Green
In our large-ish corporate environment we're stuck with IE6 as our default
probably for another year :(

While we know that people have installed newer browsers——IE7 is authorised,
but not the default--we still can't stop supporting IE6.



One of the UK high street banks who has tens of thousands of users recently
advised me that they will be retaining IE6 as the default browser until 2014
due to the huge amount of work required to fix the large number of bespoke
applications they use. Staff can ask for special dispensation to get IE7
installed but if you've ever tried to get a corporate IT department to do
anything you'll understand that very few people will bother asking.

I think that techies forget the concerns that ordinary people have about
technology. Older users in particular are often reluctant to install or
change anything because they don't know what they can trust and they are
scared something will break. Unlike us, they don't have the knowledge or
facilities to fix anything that goes wrong.

I suspect that the kind of websites that ordinary people use will still be
seeing significant IE6 traffic (probably in excess of 10%) for a couple more
years. The stats for techie sites will be very different, so a decision on
whether to support IE6 will depend on the demographics of the visitors.

FWIW, one of my team was in Bangalore over Christmas and had to use an
Internet café. The machines were running Windows 98! So let's not forget
that some parts of the world cannot afford to upgrade as fast as we can.

Steve Green

 




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***



RE: [WSG] google chrome frame

2010-01-03 Thread Tatham Oddie
I've spent the last 12 months working on the one of the largest sites in
Australia. Over this time we have updated our browser support matrix twice,
and will probably update it again soon.

For us, IE6 usage is starting to hit a rapid decline, falling at about 1
percentage point a week. The last 3 weeks have been 8.75%, 7.60% and now
6.25%.

Considering Chrome is currently unsupported but at 4.57% (and growing), I
expect our next update will be to drop IE6 support in favour of adding
Chrome support.

That being said, the whole site is based on progressive enhancement so it
already works in Chrome and we even have a small but consistent set of users
browsing on their PS3s.

Nevertheless, the decision of which browsers you support (and to what degree
you support them) needs to be something that you evaluate and decide
yourself using your own market metrics. Anybody who tells you what you
should and should not support is most likely an idiot and probably not a
very good business person.


Thanks,

Tatham Oddie
au mob: +61 414 275 989, us cell: +1 213 422 7068, skype: tathamoddie,
landline: +61 2 8011 3982, fax: +61 2 9475 5172
my business: tixi.com.au – Ticketing without the dramas


-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Monday, 4 January 2010 11:10 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] google chrome frame

In our large-ish corporate environment we're stuck with IE6 as our default
probably for another year :(

While we know that people have installed newer browsers——IE7 is authorised,
but not the default--we still can't stop supporting IE6.



One of the UK high street banks who has tens of thousands of users recently
advised me that they will be retaining IE6 as the default browser until 2014
due to the huge amount of work required to fix the large number of bespoke
applications they use. Staff can ask for special dispensation to get IE7
installed but if you've ever tried to get a corporate IT department to do
anything you'll understand that very few people will bother asking.

I think that techies forget the concerns that ordinary people have about
technology. Older users in particular are often reluctant to install or
change anything because they don't know what they can trust and they are
scared something will break. Unlike us, they don't have the knowledge or
facilities to fix anything that goes wrong.

I suspect that the kind of websites that ordinary people use will still be
seeing significant IE6 traffic (probably in excess of 10%) for a couple more
years. The stats for techie sites will be very different, so a decision on
whether to support IE6 will depend on the demographics of the visitors.

FWIW, one of my team was in Bangalore over Christmas and had to use an
Internet café. The machines were running Windows 98! So let's not forget
that some parts of the world cannot afford to upgrade as fast as we can.

Steve Green

 




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***