[WSG] Advanced Tables Tutorial

2003-12-10 Thread Mark Lynch
As we haven't had a Russ Weaklyorial this week I thought I'd contribute 
this little tutorial I created. 

The reason I created it was that I have never seen any articles 
discussing tables and there is a lot of useful and information that I 
believe is relatively unknown. 

Please forgive any mistakes (but do let me know so I can remedy them) as 
I have pieced it together over the last few weeks in the few moments of 
free time I've had.

http://markl.f2o.org/tutorial/tables/Advanced_Tables.html

Enjoy,
Mark
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Re: [WSG] Re: px em pt ???

2003-12-10 Thread Gino Ferraro
Hi Miles,

Owen Briggs of 'The Noodle Incident' has a very good article on CSS 
Typography. He has developed a sample style sheet that covers all the 
base elements using %'s and ems.

check it out at:
http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/typography/index.html
Cheers
Gino
Miles Tillinger wrote:
Peter, I know its a bit of a cop-out and less of a 'learning experience', but I'd love to get my hands on a generic CSS template that I can use as a starting point...  Has anyone been nice enough to make one available anywhere?

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Re: [WSG] Re: px em pt ???

2003-12-10 Thread Tonico Strasser
Taco Fleur wrote:

Makes sense too..

I guess in the end it all becomes a case of - is the client willing to pay for your extra time required to apply all these hacks.

Having worked for several government bodies I am afraid to say I have NEVER worked with %, simply because it looked like a paint to work with. And the only downfall I see in using pixels is due to the fact IE (some versions) can't scale it.

IE is not the only downfall in using px if you conisder to account for 
the users base font size.

Tonico

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Re: [WSG] Generated Content

2003-12-10 Thread Peter Neal
So what I understand from your tutorial Moose, and from my own 
experimenting, is that simple content can be displayed in Mozilla, eg. 
img:after {content: attr(alt)} but anything complex, including counters 
doesn't appear (anyone got a hack?) From literarymoose though it appears 
that Opera does display the generated content.

Peter.

Moose wrote:


I'm wondering if anyone out there can point me to an article or 
crib-sheet discussing the current support for generated content in 
CSS2. Such as are discussed here 
http://www.richinstyle.com/guides/generated2.html. I would like to use 
counters to add numbering to headings in web-versions of some 
technical documents.


Allo,

See here:

http://www.literarymoose.info/=/article/conquistadors.html

3 pages full of generated content. Enjoy!

M.

p.s. IE will see nothing, hear nothing... so it's safe to use GC.

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Lab: +61-2-9385-4320
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Re: [WSG] Browser Engine Standard???

2003-12-10 Thread Cade Whitbourn

Taco,

The company that I work for at the moment cannot afford to say 'bye bye' to 5% of web 
users (let alone 2%) for the simple fact that 5% represents THOUSANDS of customers all 
wanting to pay us money to provide them with web services.

BTW, You were 'web designing' in 1991...?

 
 -
 Unfortunately, while we do vaguely know what *most* of the
 users use right now, we don't know at any point, for any
 particular site, what those *specific* users are browsing with,
 and what they will be browsing with in the future.
 -
 
 Is it really still vague? 
 If we keep thinking like this, will we ever get a standard?
 
 I realize years ago, it was crazy to say, hey I will only code for  Browser X, 
 because there was such a variety used out there. But lately  it has been quite 
 obvious what the USERS are using (and once again let  me stress out that that does 
 not mean I agree with what they are using)  the two browsers at the top are 
 Internet Explorer and Mozilla, with  Internet Explorer Leading. 
 Cool, time to say bye bye to EVERY other browser that is not within this  range, 
 i.e. the ones that only have a share of 5% or less percent. Let  the top two battle 
 it out, i.e. let's see who the users will choose in  the next two years, after 
 that, bye bye number 2. One browser left, and  we can all code for one browser (or 
 engine/parser if they wised up and  used the same backend but different front-end) 
 and we can all finally  start using those fancy features that we have stayed away 
 from because  they don't work in every browser.
 
 ;-))
 Taco
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Re: [WSG] Browser Engine Standard???

2003-12-10 Thread Ryan Christie
Taco-

I think it's more of a complex situation than that. I'm sort of sick of 
all the browser hoopla as well, and I've only been into designing for 5 
years. Back when I was a consumer in the browser wars, that was a good 
time as well - fun to kick back and watch the dust fly :)

I doubt there will ever be THE BROWSER 1.0 FINAL ... There's too much 
sharky business stuff that goes on behind the scenes for the browsers to 
all work the same. Without some sort of branding, there only would be 
one browser probably. I'm not sure why the browser wars were so damn 
violent - so if anyone with more knowledge of that stuff wants to send 
out a verbose email on/offlist to me I'll be happy to turn on sponge 
mode. As I see it, Netscrape VS Internut Exploder was simple brand name 
competition - technically, possession is 9/10's the law as they say. 
More market share, more branding awareness, more business.

Now, at least the browsers are starting to all adopt standards which is 
definitely less of a headache for us as designers and coders. Even 
though they all agree on the standards though, each browser has it's own 
agenda - even Mozilla's Firebird has its own special CSS element 
properties that can be toyed with to do different things. You can see 
them all when using the DOM inspector within the program and loading up 
Computed Style, they all start with -moz from the bottom of the styles 
list up.

The engine deal goes right in hand with the branding - because in order 
to set themselves apart from others, every browser will at least have 
their own tweaked version of a standard engine. I think that right now 
with the rise of standards the big dogs are going to start to flop out 
unless they can keep up with the open source development of the Mozilla 
team. And to their own credit, Netscrape's 7.1 browser is actually very 
pretty and works quite well. Of course, it is driven by Gecko - 
Mozilla's open source web engine.

I dread seeing Microsoft's next IE release in the upcoming year. After 
this long without an update at all, they better be damn well sweating 
over hot keyboards with a new built-from-scratch engine driving the 
circus along. If they still have that same old legacy code plopped in 
there from IE6 I'm giving up on them as far as hope is concerned completely.

Of course, given they still hold top market share, we'll still have to 
support their lousy browser.

-Ryan

Taco Fleur wrote:

Will there ever be such a thing as a Standard Browser Engine/Parser or 
what ever you want to call it?

12 years ago when I first started web design I was already sick of the 
differences between how browsers display and handle things, back then 
I figured that after some time (12 years maybe) everybody would get 
their act together and at least use a default engine/parser for every 
browser..

Whats the deal? Is anybody working on this, will it ever happen?

Why do so many designers still use and code for browsers that are not 
within the top highest browser market share?
Isn't it time to say, we now know what the users use (even though we 
don't agree with what they use) and completely forget about the rest?

If we all would do this and set our pride aside, I reckon we might 
have that dream we have come true!

Or am I just babbling away again, and talk about things I have no clue 
about??

*Taco Fleur
07 3535 5072*
Tell me and I will forget
Show me and I will remember
Teach me and I will learn
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[WSG] A few links for a Thursday...

2003-12-10 Thread russ weakley
1. 
Westciv Free CSS1 course is now starting. Every week a new major section
will become available, but the old installments will disappear.
http://www.westciv.com/courses/free/index.html

2.
Nemesis article: Two columns with color - a simple step by step tutorial on
how make a two column CSS layout with columns in color.
http://nemesis1.f2o.org/articles

3.
Via Literary Moose, check out the CSS lamp:
http://www.mraveniste.org/weblog/css-lampa/

Now... If I could just get those two promised links from particular members
regarding number plates and bar graphs...  :)

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Re: [WSG] Browser Engine Standard???

2003-12-10 Thread Gary Menzel

 I'm not sure why the browser wars were so damn
 violent

Two words

Market Share

The big companies realised, once the Internet started becoming popular
outside of Universities and large organisations, that the Browser was the
perfect conduit into people's homes (far moreso even than Television).

TV is a very passive medium.  As such, it is much harder to gain peoples
attention and concentration.  Most of us actually don't really concentrate
on what is happening on the TV even when we are sitting in front of it.
Even so, TV had a huge impact on marketting products to people.  Part of
the appeal was from the psychology of subliminal influence.

The web, however, is very different.  The person surfing is generally
engaged in the process 100%.  And psychology has come along again to tell
us that when people are very focussed on something that subliminal
messages can be even more effective.

So.

THAT's why Browser manufacturers want to be THE one on your desktop and
why the Browser Wars still are in full swing.  Because if they can
dominate the marketplace then THEY are the ones in control of how you are
influenced (maybe) and can then charge other people (who want to influence
you) lots of money to use the conduit.

This is why the browser technologies are free.  Because you will end up
paying for them in the products that you buy.


Personally, I think this is a load of fetted dingoes kidneys (TM Douglas
Addams, HHGTTG).  And the Marketting arm of the Sirius Cybernetics
Corporation are just a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first
against the wall when the revolution comes!



Gary Menzel
Web Development Manager
IT Operations Brisbane -+- ABN AMRO Morgans Limited
Level 29, 123 Eagle Street BRISBANE QLD 4000
PH: 07 333 44 828  FX:  07 3834 0828




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Re: [WSG] A few links for a Thursday...

2003-12-10 Thread David McDonald



Is it just me, or are the images missing from Russ's two column tutorial at 
http://nemesis1.f2o.org/articles ?

Regards,

David McDonald
Web Designer
Melbourne, Australia
http://www.davidmcdonald.org

ICQ:11814164

- Original Message -
From: russ weakley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thursday, December 11, 2003 12:03 pm
Subject: [WSG] A few links for a Thursday...

 1. 
 Westciv Free CSS1 course is now starting. Every week a new major 
 sectionwill become available, but the old installments will disappear.
 http://www.westciv.com/courses/free/index.html
 
 2.
 Nemesis article: Two columns with color - a simple step by step 
 tutorial on
 how make a two column CSS layout with columns in color.
 http://nemesis1.f2o.org/articles
 
 3.
 Via Literary Moose, check out the CSS lamp:
 http://www.mraveniste.org/weblog/css-lampa/
 
 Now... If I could just get those two promised links from 
 particular members
 regarding number plates and bar graphs...  :)
 
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Re: [WSG] A few links for a Thursday...

2003-12-10 Thread russ weakley
David, correct! The site owner has been contacted. Thanks for the pickup -
makes the entire article pointless really  : )
Russ


 
 
 
 Is it just me, or are the images missing from Russ's two column tutorial at
 http://nemesis1.f2o.org/articles ?
 
 Regards,
 
 David McDonald
 Web Designer
 Melbourne, Australia
 http://www.davidmcdonald.org
 
 ICQ:11814164
 
 - Original Message -
 From: russ weakley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Thursday, December 11, 2003 12:03 pm
 Subject: [WSG] A few links for a Thursday...
 
 1. 
 Westciv Free CSS1 course is now starting. Every week a new major
 sectionwill become available, but the old installments will disappear.
 http://www.westciv.com/courses/free/index.html
 
 2.
 Nemesis article: Two columns with color - a simple step by step
 tutorial on
 how make a two column CSS layout with columns in color.
 http://nemesis1.f2o.org/articles
 
 3.
 Via Literary Moose, check out the CSS lamp:
 http://www.mraveniste.org/weblog/css-lampa/
 
 Now... If I could just get those two promised links from
 particular members
 regarding number plates and bar graphs...  :)

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Re: [WSG] A few links for a Thursday...

2003-12-10 Thread David McDonald


That's OK! I thought that the layouts looked a bit plain (without the images) - or 
that I was missing something ... 

Anyway, it's a good article. The syndication of Russ Worldwide continues!!

Regards,

David McDonald
Web Designer
Melbourne, Australia
http://www.davidmcdonald.org

ICQ:11814164

- Original Message -
From: russ weakley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thursday, December 11, 2003 3:41 pm
Subject: Re: [WSG] A few links for a Thursday...

 David, correct! The site owner has been contacted. Thanks for the 
 pickup -
 makes the entire article pointless really  : )
 Russ
 
 
  
  
  
  Is it just me, or are the images missing from Russ's two column 
 tutorial at
  http://nemesis1.f2o.org/articles ?
  
  Regards,
  
  David McDonald
  Web Designer
  Melbourne, Australia
  http://www.davidmcdonald.org
  
  ICQ:11814164
  
  - Original Message -
  From: russ weakley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Thursday, December 11, 2003 12:03 pm
  Subject: [WSG] A few links for a Thursday...
  
  1. 
  Westciv Free CSS1 course is now starting. Every week a new major
  sectionwill become available, but the old installments will 
 disappear. http://www.westciv.com/courses/free/index.html
  
  2.
  Nemesis article: Two columns with color - a simple step by step
  tutorial on
  how make a two column CSS layout with columns in color.
  http://nemesis1.f2o.org/articles
  
  3.
  Via Literary Moose, check out the CSS lamp:
  http://www.mraveniste.org/weblog/css-lampa/
  
  Now... If I could just get those two promised links from
  particular members
  regarding number plates and bar graphs...  :)
 
 *
 The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
 * 
 
 
  

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