Re: [WSG] CSS book

2003-12-14 Thread Gino Ferraro
Check our Eric Meyer on CSS. While not aimed only at CSS layouts, it 
includes some really good projects on layouts and every step is 
explained in detail and includes options for taking the project to an 
advanced level.

Cheers
Gino
Taco Fleur wrote:
What is a really good book aimed at only CSS layout, and takes you from 
medium to advanced?
 
*Taco Fleur
*Tell me and I will forget
Show me and I will remember
Teach me and I will learn
 
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Re: [WSG] do people still use bookmarks?

2003-12-14 Thread Anton Andreasson
I don't know about you guys, but Word Documents, Bookmarks and URI 
namespace rules takes a lot of space on this list now, and I'm 
drowning.. Could we all please be a little more brief when discussion 
thos (OT) issues, ok?

TIA,

/Anton
--
What your body lacks, your head compensates.
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RE: [WSG] do people still use bookmarks?

2003-12-14 Thread Gary Menzel

 With all due respect Gary...
 http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI.html (look for I didn't think URLs
 have to be persistent - that was URNs)

I think that document just highlights how inefficient the current
conventions are for ensuring a piece of information will always be
accessible.  I think it also indicates that the most useful and reliable
URI is one that identifies the document in space and time.  Referring back
to Taco's original comment about URL's.. this would not really make
for a memorable URL (as it would tend to be mostly made up of date/time
information).  The article even says that date/time is a good place to
start for creating URI's.

The opening sentences in that document says:

There are no reasons at all in theory for people to change URIs (or stop
maintaining documents), but millions of reasons in practice.


The process is so subjective and every different organisation has it's own
rules on what it will and wont do with URI's (which include both URL's and
URN's).

Saying that Apache as a web server has ways and means to mask all of this
is fine.  Except so many webmasters out there don't even know what their
web server can actually do - or they are hamstrung by internal policies
that dont allow them to use the server effectively.

Again I quote from the article:

A lot of people don't know that servers such as Apache give you a lot of
control over a flexible relationship between the URI of an object and
where a file which represents it actually is in a file system.


So - in terms of this list and standards.  there are some
standards out there about what these things are - but a lot of
imagination about how they are are actually being used.

That being the case, then surely therein is the argument for coming up
with a better approach.

I brought up URN's because they are not used very much.

Tim clearly states in the section you mentioned that what people should do
is build a database of URN's that map to the underlying file system.

Make a database which maps document URN to current filename, and let the
web server use that to actually retrieve files.


And he also states that the tools for doing the above really aren't mature
enough at the moment.

See the section entitled: We would like to but we just dont have the
right tools.  And I think you will see exactly where my argument was
coming from.


So - I tend to think I am pretty much in agreement with what is being said
there.



Gary Menzel
Web Development Manager
IT Operations Brisbane -+- ABN AMRO Morgans Limited
Level 29, 123 Eagle Street BRISBANE QLD 4000
PH: 07 333 44 828  FX:  07 3834 0828




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[WSG] Web Standards OT ?? (was: do people still use bookmarks?)

2003-12-14 Thread Gary Menzel

 I don't know about you guys, but Word Documents, Bookmarks and URI
 namespace rules takes a lot of space on this list now, and I'm
 drowning.. Could we all please be a little more brief when discussion
 thos (OT) issues, ok?

While I agree with regard to discussion on Word Documents (and probably
bookmarks), I have to disagree with regard to URI's.

URI's (URL's and URN's) are a fundamental web standard that should be
discussable in this forum and are not OT.


Gary Menzel
Web Development Manager
IT Operations Brisbane -+- ABN AMRO Morgans Limited
Level 29, 123 Eagle Street BRISBANE QLD 4000
PH: 07 333 44 828  FX:  07 3834 0828



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Re: [WSG] CSS Tables... [Virus checkedAU]

2003-12-14 Thread Viktor . Radnai




This email is to be read subject to the disclaimer below.

Hi Chris,

I see that Russ has already answered my question, but I should add that
using this method you can have more than two things each side. Here's a
really simple example I did:

! Insert some doctype here...
html
head
titleI'm floating.../title
style type=text/css
  p { clear: none; width: 20%; }
  .left { float: left; }
  .right { float: right; }
/style
/head
body
div
  p class=leftLeft/p
  p class=leftLeft/p
  p class=rightRight/p
  p class=rightRight/p
/div
/body
/html

Hope you find this useful...

Cheers,
Vik
--
Viktor Radnai
Web Developer
Business Innovation Online
Ernst  Young Australia
http://www.eyware.com/
http://www.eyonline.com/
Direct: +612 9248 4361
Fax: +612 9248 4073
Mobile: +61408 662 546


   

   Chris  

   Stratford  To:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

   [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:  
   
   il.com Subject: [WSG] CSS  Tables...  [Virus 
checkedAU]   
   

   15/12/2003  

   11:27 AM

   Please respond  

   to wsg  

   

   




I have always wanted to do this
I have never seen it possible without TABLES or Absolute positioning

It must be possible though.

What I want to do is, have 1 piece of text aligned LEFT, and on the same
line, another piece of text aligned RIGHT

Its a admin panel, where the line displays:

Title  username (then on the very right is a link to LOGOUT)

But unless I use tables I cant do that

The reason why I am after this is because I want my whole website to be
absent of any tables.

www.neester.com/index2.php - that is the continuing method  there is a
guestbook where you can leave comments if you like


I was hoping that CSS would allow you to have this sort of thing:

p style=align:left HEADING p style=align:right (if I close the p
tag it will create a new line, but it does this when you open a new p tag
anyway
is there anyway around this?

I have yet to try: span tags.
And the last resort would be using 2 divs
That is my last resort because, I have div class=contentdiv
class=admin then I would have 2 more nested divs
It would end up a hassle like tables end up a hassle


Any help anyone?
Thanks in advance!


 Chris Stratford
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 www.neester.com






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[WSG] CSS Tables - Thanks

2003-12-14 Thread Chris Stratford








Ok, wow

Well I must have done something wrong when I tried
the FLOAT:LEFT and right



It did get to me, so I left it hehehe



Also, if you want to see my full CSS Guestbook: www.neester.com/guestbook.php



What do you think of that?

I think it makes the page load quicker because
since tables are very verbose and there is a lot of wasted text, here all I have
is some Divs and Classes

No more tabletrtd etc



I'm very proud of that effort there J







 Chris Stratford
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 www.neester.com 












[WSG] Hiding LEGEND in Netscape 4

2003-12-14 Thread Miles Tillinger

I'm developing an accessible form template that uses fieldsets.  I'm hiding the legend 
using display:none so it doesn't appear, which keeps the form accessible.  Problem is 
that the legend still displays in Netscape 4, but I thought display:none was supported?

e.g.

legend class=legDefaultTitle/legend

class is

legDefault { default: none; }

Any ideas why this wouldn't work in NS4?

Cheers,

Miles.

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RE: [WSG] Hiding LEGEND in Netscape 4

2003-12-14 Thread Miles Tillinger

before you say it, yes, i did actually use a . in the declaration, e.g.

legDefault { default: none; }

-Original Message-
From: Miles Tillinger 
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 12:42 PM
To: Web Standards Group (E-mail)
Subject: [WSG] Hiding LEGEND in Netscape 4



I'm developing an accessible form template that uses fieldsets.  I'm hiding the legend 
using display:none so it doesn't appear, which keeps the form accessible.  Problem is 
that the legend still displays in Netscape 4, but I thought display:none was supported?

e.g.

legend class=legDefaultTitle/legend

class is

legDefault { default: none; }

Any ideas why this wouldn't work in NS4?

Cheers,

Miles.

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RE: [WSG] Hiding LEGEND in Netscape 4

2003-12-14 Thread Miles Tillinger

DOH, I did a fantastic job of writing this email!  Let me try again:

legend class=legDefaultTitle/legend

legDefault { display: none; }

This works fine in IE4+ and Mozilla flavours.  But not NS4...

-Original Message-
From: russ weakley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 12:45 PM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: Re: [WSG] Hiding LEGEND in Netscape 4


Try:
display: none;



 
 I'm developing an accessible form template that uses fieldsets.  I'm hiding
 the legend using display:none so it doesn't appear, which keeps the form
 accessible.  Problem is that the legend still displays in Netscape 4, but I
 thought display:none was supported?
 
 e.g.
 
 legend class=legDefaultTitle/legend
 
 class is
 
 legDefault { default: none; }
 
 Any ideas why this wouldn't work in NS4?
 
 Cheers,
 
 Miles.
 
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 *

Thanks
Russ

---
Russ Weakley
Max Design
Phone: (02) 9410 2521
Mobile: 0403 433 980
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.maxdesign.com.au
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RE: [WSG] CSS Tables...

2003-12-14 Thread Chris Stratford

Hey James,

I already have a horizontal list.
It's just really for any Admins I appoint to the website, and myself.

Here is a screenshot of the admin panel.
This is where I wanted the title to split left and right, but its too
tricky for me at the moment.
Too much screwing around, so I am going to give it up right now.

http://www.neester.com/media/admin.jpg

That's the screenshot there.


 Chris Stratford
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.neester.com 


-Original Message-
From: James Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, 15 December 2003 1:26 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS  Tables...


Hey Chris

why don't you try a horizontal list - they're ok for this kind of stuff.

I do a similar thing at my.spamtrap.net.au with titles and logins...

Cheers
James
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RE: [WSG] CSS Tables...

2003-12-14 Thread Chris Stratford

Sorry 4 the second email.
But if you want to load the admin up on your PC:

www.neester.com/administration.php

user: test
pass: test

you wont have any user rights at the moment.
I may allow some right later on for the test account.


 Chris Stratford
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.neester.com 


-Original Message-
From: James Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, 15 December 2003 1:26 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS  Tables...


Hey Chris

why don't you try a horizontal list - they're ok for this kind of stuff.

I do a similar thing at my.spamtrap.net.au with titles and logins...

Cheers
James
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[WSG] Strange Netscape list button behaviour

2003-12-14 Thread Universal Head
Title: Strange Netscape list button
behaviour


HELP!

http://universalhead.com/clients/oceanwavedigital/support_server.html

I've tried everything, but I can't work out why the CSS for the
left menu is not working properly in Netscape (PC and Mac - works fine
in IE). There are 1 and 2 pixel differences in the width of the list
element buttons. I've tried fiddling with the list css in every
possible combinations and I can't see the logic behind why this is
happening.

I'd really appreciate it if anyone could come up with an
explanation for this.

Cheers
Peter
-- 



peter gifford

universal head 
design that works

visit 7/43 bridge road
 stanmore nsw
2048
 australia
call (+612) 9517 1466
fax (+612) 9565 4747
email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
site
www.universalhead.com




Re: [WSG] Strange Netscape list button behaviour

2003-12-14 Thread James Ellis





what version of netscape?

Universal Head wrote:

  
  Strange Netscape list button
behaviour
  HELP!
  
  
  http://universalhead.com/clients/oceanwavedigital/support_server.html
  
  
  I've tried everything, but I can't work out why the CSS for the
left menu is not working properly in Netscape (PC and Mac 
  



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RE: [WSG] Strange Netscape list button behaviour

2003-12-14 Thread Peter Ottery
Title: Strange Netscape list button behaviour



hiya,

yeah, 
i'm seeing the prob in IE6 PC aswell...
its a 
1 pixel white border being added to some a's within LI's and not 
others.

ie: 
where youve got the below (in red) in your 
stylesheet, some have border-right set to 1px, some have it set to none, and 
some are missing. If you make them all the same yr sorted. i think. 


hey 
all, am new here by the way, just signed up today. um. hi :)

incidently, i used the mozilla bookmarklet called "edit styles" on this 
page
http://www.squarefree.com/bookmarklets/webdevel.html
to 
edit and view the css changes live. it rocks.

cheers,
pete


/* 
front page *//* -- 
*/

#support { background: 
#e58200;border-top: 1px solid #fff; border-right: 1px solid 
#fff; }#consulting { background: 
#966a22;border-top: 1px solid #fff; border-right: 1px solid 
#fff; }

#procurement { background: 
#324e57;border-top: 1px solid #fff; border-right: 1px solid 
#fff; }

#network {background: #003c85;border-top: 1px solid 
#fff; border-right: none; }

/* 
services *//* -- */

#adhoc { background: 
#e58200;border-right: 1px solid #fff; 
}#server { background: 
#966a22;border-right: 1px solid #fff; }

#help { background: 
#324e57;border-right: 1px solid #fff; }

#itpartner {background: #003c85;border-right: none; 
}

  -Original Message-From: Universal Head 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 4:43 
  PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [WSG] Strange 
  Netscape list button behaviour
  HELP!
  
  http://universalhead.com/clients/oceanwavedigital/support_server.html
  
  I've tried everything, but I can't work out why the CSS for the left menu 
  is not working properly in Netscape (PC and Mac - works fine in IE). There are 
  1 and 2 pixel differences in the width of the list element buttons. I've tried 
  fiddling with the list css in every possible combinations and I can't see the 
  logic behind why this is happening.
  
  I'd really appreciate it if anyone could come up with an explanation for 
  this.
  
  Cheers
  Peter-- 

  peter gifforduniversal 
  head design that 
  worksvisit 7/43 bridge 
  road stanmore nsw 
  2048 
  australiacall (+612) 9517 
  1466fax (+612) 9565 
  4747email 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]site 
  www.universalhead.com


Re: [WSG] Strange Netscape list button behaviour

2003-12-14 Thread Universal Head
Title: Re: [WSG] Strange Netscape list button
behaviour


on the PC, the latest - 7.1.
also Mozilla 1.5 on the mac

P


what version of netscape?

Universal Head wrote:
Strange Netscape list button
behaviour
HELP!

http://universalhead.com/clients/oceanwavedigital/support_server.html

I've tried everything, but I can't work
out why the CSS for the left menu is not working properly in Netscape
(PC and Mac


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discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
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-- 



peter gifford

universal head 
design that works

visit 7/43 bridge road
 stanmore nsw
2048
 australia
call (+612) 9517 1466
fax (+612) 9565 4747
email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
site
www.universalhead.com