RE: [WSG] forum @ WSG?c]
Hi Scott, Not off topic at all. We're right in the middle of a planning stage for WSG and will be making some announcements soon. Yes we have discussed a forum, but have agreed that it will not fulfil the purpose as questions won't get answered with the same speed. I am on many fora and only ever go to them when I have a problem, then I get in and out without answering others questions. We don't want that to happen here, but we are looking at some passive solutions. Tim mentioned an NNTP (news) in the last 24 hours but this is not likely to happen I'm afraid. Integrating the list and an nntp server isn't that simple (with the server software I have available) and the list is (and will remain) the primary method of active communication for this community. I'll look at the IIS NNTP thingie again soon and see if I can get it working as a read-only newsfeed. Don't hold your breath though. We are currently testing an RSS feed of the list (obviously read only) with all email addresses (loudly) hidden but threading is still an issue with RSS 2.0. It also links to the members section so a login is required if you don't read it within the blog reader. We are looking at Atom as well and this should allow threading (I believe) but I haven't done it yet. While we're on the subject (although it's over a week old now) http://nick.typepad.com/blog/2004/03/dave_winer_merg.html (Doh! Just let it go Dave...) Stay tuned for more on the WSG site rebuild soon. Regards, Peter first post to this list - greetings to everyone. i'd just like to know if there are any plans for a forum on WSG? i bet it's been thought of, but i just thought i'd mention it. cheers, scott * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] forum @ WSG?]
hi peter, thanks for the reply. yeah, that makes sense to me. you guys obviously know what's best, and that's a good thing. thanks for the prompt reply. scott == Scott Villarosa === Lortie feu faccumm loreetuercin et lor sequi blandiam. Hi Scott, Not off topic at all. We're right in the middle of a planning stage for WSG and will be making some announcements soon. Yes we have discussed a forum, but have agreed that it will not fulfil the purpose as questions won't get answered with the same speed. I am on many fora and only ever go to them when I have a problem, then I get in and out without answering others questions. We don't want that to happen here, but we are looking at some passive solutions. Tim mentioned an NNTP (news) in the last 24 hours but this is not likely to happen I'm afraid. Integrating the list and an nntp server isn't that simple (with the server software I have available) and the list is (and will remain) the primary method of active communication for this community. I'll look at the IIS NNTP thingie again soon and see if I can get it working as a read-only newsfeed. Don't hold your breath though. We are currently testing an RSS feed of the list (obviously read only) with all email addresses (loudly) hidden but threading is still an issue with RSS 2.0. It also links to the members section so a login is required if you don't read it within the blog reader. We are looking at Atom as well and this should allow threading (I believe) but I haven't done it yet. While we're on the subject (although it's over a week old now) http://nick.typepad.com/blog/2004/03/dave_winer_merg.html (Doh! Just let it go Dave...) Stay tuned for more on the WSG site rebuild soon. Regards, Peter first post to this list - greetings to everyone. i'd just like to know if there are any plans for a forum on WSG? i bet it's been thought of, but i just thought i'd mention it. cheers, scott * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * _ You could be a genius! Find out by taking the IQ Test 2003. $5.50 (incl GST). Click here: http://sites.ninemsn.com.au/minisite/testaustralia/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] forum @ WSG? - [off topic]
On Friday 19 March 2004 10:48, scott villarosa wrote: first post to this list - greetings to everyone. i'd just like to know if there are any plans for a forum on WSG? i bet it's been thought of, but i just thought i'd mention it. http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ Not exactly a forum, but pretty close anyway. I find it useful for checking [WSG] posts when I don't have my email client handy. - Lorenzo -- _/\/¯¯\/\_. (w) www.quirk.co.za (e) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (h) +27 (0)86 11 021 33 (t) +27 (0)21 462 7353 (f) +27 (0)21 462 7354 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Relative font sizes - resizing in IE
Not only was I corrected, but I have corrected the page as well.
http://www.eatons.net/test/IE-S.html
=
On Friday, March 19, 2004, at 06:02 AM, Charles Eaton wrote:
On Thursday, March 18, 2004, at 10:32 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
Charles Eaton wrote:
http://www.eatons.net/test/IE-S.html
All that proves is the size of a point varies with DPI. 12pt is twice
as
big at 144 DPI as at 72 DPI. On my sisters 192 DPI system, 12pt is
quite
big. 12pt may or may not be the same size as the user's default, so
why
bother even setting the base size if it's likely to be the default
only
in most cases? Better to use 'body {font-size: 100%;}', because that
always = the user's preference.
Well, it looks like I'm going to stop being a 12pt Soup Nazi and
design my pages using only % and relative sizes. I was looking at
it from the standpoint of a client browser being set to read the style
sheets of any web site and not taking the user's point of view.
Using % and em only works when a true font size has been stated.
Therefore, setting the body to the user's preference solves the
problem.
body {font-size:100%;}
Thank you, I stand corrected.
-chuck
--
Surely God would not have created such a being as man to exist only
a day! No, no, man was made for immortality.
President Abraham Lincoln
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409
Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/
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RE: [WSG] Purpose of this mailing list
Don't worry, as a newbie here and to a lot of the standards, I should bring the bar down a few pegs when my response to an answer is simple Huh? BTW guess it's time I said hi, instead of lurking like I have been for the past week. I've recently come over here from CSS-F list, which I was only on for like a week or 2 when they decided a merger with this one would be a good idea. Actually I have done some CSS and standards compliant work before, so the concept isn't totally forign to me. How ever, as I look at some of the answers and site checks, I still have a way to go, both technicaly, and artisticly. I have noticed that this list seem does seem pretty friendly, glad I happen to stuble acrossed it. Micheal Peters -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Lloyd Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 11:23 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Purpose of this mailing list On 9 Mar 2004, at 21:21, Paul Ross wrote: The trouble with this list - and the people on it - is that you are all too helpful and friendly. I am also a member of the Webesign-L.com list and would never post there because the list-mom and most of the members seem to be arrogant elitist techno-fascists who sneer and chide those of us further down the learning curve. Ahh, so you're friends with Steven Champeon then? Heh ;-) I know what you mean though. Trouble is, it can easily happen with WSG list - all it takes is time and people will learn more, ask more complicated questions and attempt to show how clever they are by posting complicated 'helpful' answers. That's the trouble with discussion lists the world over.. Ian Lloyd ~ WEB: http://www.ian-lloyd.com/ | AIM: uklloydi Round-the-World trip blog: http://ianandmanda.typepad.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Purpose of this mailing list
Hi Peters, Welcome to the list. That is one of our aims here - to keep it informative but also as friendly as possible. We have designers and developers with a very wide range of skills and skill levels. But we are all in the same web standards boat :) The best quote on friendly attitude would have to be Eric Meyer's: quote The thing about CSS is that it's a tool. It's a very powerful tool, one that has the potential to become even more powerful and therefore useful, but it's still a tool. People should of course always use the best tool for a job, whatever it might be, and the expert ought to help others use the tool better. But no matter how skilled you are with a tool, you shouldn't use it to hit other people. /quote http://www.dmxzone.com/showDetail.asp?TypeId=28NewsId=5307LinkFile=page2.h tm I have noticed that this list seem does seem pretty friendly, glad I happen to stuble acrossed it. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Why deprecate FIRc ?
In the 'it's better to ask and seem a fool for a minute...' spirit. http://www.stopdesign.com/present/sxsw2004/goodbad/?no=6 I've read Doug Bowman deprecation of FIR techniques and while i can agree in the failure of both traditional FIR and the 'text-indent' variant, I cannot see the point in rejecting the absolute positioning of the img method. If the method fails on img transparency, well, don't make them transparent. What' so serious about that to deprecate it too? -- Manuel González Noriega Simplelógica, construcción web URL: http://simplelogica.net EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65 Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Some links for reading...
Russ Wow what a great set of links... Thanks for supplying me with tonight reading. Douglas Bowman can really cook... I hope some of his stuff will rub off on me. Leo * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] css from photoshop file?
On 19 Mar 2004, at 09:52, Mark Stanton wrote: Tip #1 - make sure the psd files come from a designer that understands CSS. Good luck, there aren't many of them ;-) Ian Lloyd ~ WEB: http://www.ian-lloyd.com/ | AIM: uklloydi Round-the-World trip blog: http://ianandmanda.typepad.com/ -- Disclaimer: I am currently traveling and connect to the Internet sporadically. As such, much of what I write offline may be days (or more) old when it gets sent, hence the content may have been superseded by other people's emails. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] css from photoshop file?
On 19 Mar 2004, at 10:18, Mike Brown wrote: Off the top of my head, some things you may need to sort out with the designer: :: is it a fluid or fixed-width layout? :: do you use fonts or images for navigation? :: do elements on the page have to be exactly the pixels apart shown in the design, or do you have some flexibility there? :: is it clear from the design what elements are heading elements - h1, h2, etc? HTH Some excellent tips, Mike. These are /exactly/ the kinds of things that need to be considered. In addition, are there any more mock-ups that can be provided that show other eventualities, such as: * What about when you have a lower-level heading? * What to do when content overflows what appears to be a predefined area - scrolling? Where do the stretches take place? There are probably tonnes more of these but they've probably already been addressed by the list. The main thing was to say bravo for the points mentioned above. Ian Lloyd ~ WEB: http://www.ian-lloyd.com/ | AIM: uklloydi Round-the-World trip blog: http://ianandmanda.typepad.com/ -- Disclaimer: I am currently traveling and connect to the Internet sporadically. As such, much of what I write offline may be days (or more) old when it gets sent, hence the content may have been superseded by other people's emails. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Next Sydney meeting - a fantastic guest presenter
On 19 Mar 2004, at 00:43, russ weakley wrote: The next Sydney meeting has been moved back from the 8th to the 15th April to avoid the Easter long weekend. If I'm still in Sidders, I'll come along, but I think I'll be somewhere near Melbourne or NZ by then :-( I mean, for missing the meeting otherwise I'm more :-) Ian Lloyd ~ WEB: http://www.ian-lloyd.com/ | AIM: uklloydi Round-the-World trip blog: http://ianandmanda.typepad.com/ -- Disclaimer: I am currently travelling and connect to the Internet sporadically. As such, much of what I write offline may be days (or more) old when it gets sent, hence the content may have been superceded by other people's emails. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] A rave about h1's
On 19 Mar 2004, at 01:24, Jeremy Flint wrote: I do believe that he said officially, not really speaking for himself, but for the CSS community that supported that method as a whole. It was just a turn of phrase - using the language of specs and such like (and yes he did say those exact words), but really what he was saying was this: As of this day, I'm no longer gonna push FIR because frankly we opened a can of worms ... unless someone can figure a way to get those worms back in that can. Actually, it's probably better what he said ;-) Ian Lloyd ~ WEB: http://www.ian-lloyd.com/ | AIM: uklloydi Round-the-World trip blog: http://ianandmanda.typepad.com/ -- Disclaimer: I am currently travelling and connect to the Internet sporadically. As such, much of what I write offline may be days (or more) old when it gets sent, hence the content may have been superceded by other people's emails. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] dreamweaver
On 18 Mar 2004, at 09:41, Jeremy Flint wrote: how many are successfully using the WYSIWYG on a consistent basis and doing standards compliant work? Sooner or later, you have to get into the code. I have used DWMX for a long time and managed to keep standards up to par, but mainly because I have done most of the hand-coding first in another editor (HomeSite/BBEdit); then I use DW for it's templating/site management facilities. Thereafter, if all I'm using it for is to enter/amend text in areas that I've defined as editable, it's great. DW is not the quickest editor for markup, but overall I think it does an excellent job of creating standards-based markup - better than any other wysiwyg editor that I can think of, anyway Ian Lloyd ~ WEB: http://www.ian-lloyd.com/ | AIM: uklloydi Round-the-World trip blog: http://ianandmanda.typepad.com/ -- Disclaimer: I am currently travelling and connect to the Internet sporadically. As such, much of what I write offline may be days (or more) old when it gets sent, hence the content may have been superceded by other people's emails. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Opera market share
Now that it seems Opera is back in town for the Mac, with its 7.5 beta, has anyone come across any more current info on stats for this browser? Perhaps this is a topic that has been done to death. I've just looked back on the list and found that Peter Firminger noted a while back what I have just seen for myself with the new beta... that Opera *by default* identifies as Internet Explorer! Could there be any more self-effacing behaviour?? So we really have no idea how important it is to code for Opera. -Hugh Todd * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Opera market share
Hugh, I don't mean to jump on this comment, so apologies if take out of context, but the aim is to code for standards first, then deal with individual browser issues as they come up. We should not need to code for Opera. While they all have slight idiosyncrasies, recent versions of browsers such as Opera, Mozilla, Firebird and Safari are standards compliant. This means you should find your layouts are reasonably stable in these browsers. Once this is established, you may have do do a few specific tweaks or workarounds for the IE family. If you start the other way around - coding for the IE family, Opera or one particular browser - you can quickly end in a tail spin. Starting with browser specific markup is not ideal. The two most important tips for CSS layout: 1. Start by coding to standards and do workarounds only as needed. 2. Do your layouts in small steps and test each step across the widest selection of browsers you can get hold off - this avoids frustration and backtracking. Sorry if that sounded like a lecture :( Russ Could there be any more self-effacing behaviour?? So we really have no idea how important it is to code for Opera. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Opera market share
Russ, Quite right. I'm afraid I didn't put the question very well. All I was trying to get at was an idea of whether it was worth putting in the work to fix any Opera idiosyncracies, if there still are any. That said, my guess would be that while the aim is to code in a standards-compliant way, *in practice* what tends to happen (for me, anyway) is that I *think* I'm coding to standards, but I'm actually doing a running check on my work by testing in Safari and Firefox. So the purist in me says, code to standards, but being a visual person first (designer) I rely on the visual for confirmation that I'm on the right track. Not quite kosher, I guess, but that's my admission for the day. -Hugh I don't mean to jump on this comment, so apologies if take out of context, but the aim is to code for standards first, then deal with individual browser issues as they come up. We should not need to code for Opera. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Opera market share
Hugh Russ is right. Standards based design done visually or not will save you time and headaches. Besides, Opera 7.5 is still beta so why should you even care about it yet. The current Opera doesn't rendered well on the Mac and I suspect the new Opera won't be any better. IMHO you should stick with FireFox, Mozilla, and Safari for visual designing on the Mac. Leo On Saturday, March 20, 2004, at 12:50 AM, Hugh Todd wrote: whether it was worth putting in the work to fix any Opera idiosyncracies * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
