Re: [WSG] Middle Div gets shoved around in IE

[Nick Gleitzman]

On Sunday, June 20, 2004, at 04:37  AM, Roger Williams wrote:
When the browser is reduced in width to less than 800px the middle 
content gets shoved down.

If the browser is wider then everything is fine.
OK, on closer observation:
Safari 1.0.2: the #middle div doesn't get shoved down; a horizontal 
scrollbar appears at 795px width or less.

IE5.2: acquires a horizontal scrollbar at 698px; #middle div shrinks in 
width to a minimum of the longest word contained within it, #pagetitle 
image overlaps with right column, until eventually, at 370 px width, 
the #middle div drops below the two floated columns.

Seems that IE doesn't honour 'min-width'. For the 'correct' approach, 
suggest you check out one of the many online resources on floats (and 
clears); I think that your standard 'header, 3 column, left and right 
floated' layout is suffereing because of the pagetitle img. This 
floated layout always points out that a long element (word, image, URL 
etc) will break the layout. Try 
 for starters. Or, try 
absolute positioning for your L and R columns instead of floats.

A quick fix might be to re-make your gifs so as to place the 'yoga 
village' and 'better world' gifs (both blue background) in the #header 
div, and let their default (non-overlapping) width define the page's 
min-width. Not exactly in the spirit of Standards, I guess, but there 
again, as things stand, you effectively have no ID of the page as 'Yoga 
Village' if imags are turned off...

Nick
___
Omnivision. Websight.
http://www.omnivision.com.au/
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Re: [WSG] Site Check / Improvements

[RC Pierce]

Sarah,

Your site gets my vote: Definitely a very nice site. You will let us know when you go 
live with it,
eh?

Roy


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[WSG] Disabilities Survey (was: Re: Accessibililty and the positioning of navigation)

[Mordechai Peller]

russ - maxdesign wrote:
Before meeting David I always read that navigation should be last I nthe
source. I asked David this when he came to talk to the WSG recently and he
said emphatically:
"The navigation should go before the content".
This proves once again the difficulty of perfect accessibility. There are
personal views as to best practices. I'd go with David's view now as I
respect his knowledge and experience.
 

It might be worth putting together a bunch of questions and doing our 
own (WSG members) survey of people with assorted disabilities.

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RE: [WSG] Middle Div gets shoved around in IE

[Roger Williams]

When the browser is reduced in width to less than 800px the middle content gets shoved 
down.

If the browser is wider then everything is fine.

> > In IE for Mac or PC the middle div gets bumped around:
> > www.yogavillage.net
> >
> > I have set all the widths accordingly and the middle div gets a
> > min-width of 430 px which is wider than the
> > center graphic.
> >
> > Any ideas? i have a feeling that this is an IE hack but I have no
> idea
> > which one.
>
> Checked in IE5.2 and Safari 1.0.2 on OSX 10.2.8, and IE5.5 on Win2K ...
>
> all looks fine to me - ? What exactly do you mean by 'bumped around'?
>
> My only criticism of the whole layout is that the 'Location' link li
> needs a right border...
>
> Nick
> ___
> Omnivision. Websight.
> http://www.omnivision.com.au/
>
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RE: [WSG] Accessibililty and the positioning of navigation

[Mike Pepper]

Hi Pete,

And welcome to the group :o)

I would suggest the reason for comparison to a book is with regard to how
one might arrive at a sight: invariably via a search engine.

Unless one knows or can anticipate the domain name - often through branding,
like IBM, where you stick a simple dot com on the end and you're there -
you'll perform a generic search for, let's say, 'teething rings for babies'
... and what you get is a well PR'd site elevated by a commercially astute
webmaster/SEO who will float a page with headlines along the lines of
'Teething problems ... no longer babies ...' and you've hooked a boot. Gross
oversimplification but the premise stands.

This is where smart accessibility comes into play. Summarise the page
content with  a title and summary paragraph and have your nav links up front
but preceded by a skip to content jump. This way first-timers will get a
shot at evaluating the relevance of the site as a whole and the specific
page content but the old hands will simply bookmark and jump to content.

As to SEO: the engines are smart enough to realise link are links and will
skip these to get to the meat. You'll be neither penalised or rewarded for
the placement of your navigational block.

Mike Pepper
Accessible Web Developer (without a red gun on his CRT and looking for a new
monitor)
www.seowebsitepromotion.com
www.gawds.org


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Peter Costello
Sent: 19 June 2004 03:56
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessibililty and the positioning of navigation


Also... and maybe off topic.
I'm not sure I understand the comparison to books.
>From my personal experience, when I go to a site the last thing I want
is a cover page.  I want current content quickly and the ability to
find what I want quickly.

Most books by nature are linear in flow.  A more apt comparison may be
a newspaper or magazine.  This said, I'm often frustrated when reading
the paper at the lack of "navigation" as most of the time the paper is
strewn across the lounge room floor and finding the contents page
"often under the couch" is a nightmare.  Thank god for websites and
consistent navigation. Now we can get to any piece of content from any
other piece of content.

Just thinking out loud.
Cheers
Pete
--
ciao bella
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RE: [WSG] critque

[Alan Harrison]

Hi Ryan,

Don't know if you've noticed it or not, but on the
http://www.moreofthesame.com/notes/notes.htm page, your link
http://http://www.freetranslation.com is broken !


-Alan.

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RE: [WSG] critque

[Ryan Smith]

Thanks. You'll hopefully see a lot of those alterations soon. 


e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
w: www.moreofthesame.com
p: 0423 058 273


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tim Lucas
Sent: Saturday, 19 June 2004 4:54 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] critque

Ryan Smith spoke the following wise words on 19/06/2004 3:58 PM EST:
> Another newbie here. I've just sent my site live and wanted some 
> constructive feedback from both designers and developers. The xhtml 
> validates & I'm working on getting it 'strict'. Although there are a 
> couple of usability issues (like the skip to content misses the folio 
> links) overall I'm happy with it.

Good to see another designer embracing web standards =)

Clean and minimal markup and using JS to insert the decorative graphics.

You've let a bgcolor sneak on all the pages though ;)

To guarantee no UAs get confused with the inline javascript you could 
make it less intrusive by using