Re: [WSG] accessibility statements

2005-01-24 Thread Andy Budd
The Bo$$ wrote: I really don't think accesskeys are all that good for accessiblity though. See http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2005/01/04/im_still_off/ I think that's a matter of opinion. If you use numbers for your accesskeys the conflicts are fairly limited. Even if few people use them, they

Re: [WSG] CSS Footers

2005-01-24 Thread Tom Hamshere
On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:28:06 +, David R [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've tried setting both div#wrapper to min-height: 100% but no change is observed. Does anyone have any suggestions for getting elements to clear floating boxes? I have solved what I believe to be the same problem by

Re: [WSG] Re: Advantage of word-wrapping?

2005-01-24 Thread Kornel Lesinski
BUT - for development purposes wrapping is far more readable. Same way that code indenting is a nice thing to do but serves no practical purpose. Of course, if you're very concerned about page size (kb wise) the wrapping, indenting etc are just pointless wastes of space. Most of my pages are

Re: [WSG] Future XHTML Proposals?

2005-01-24 Thread Kornel Lesinski
Where the Simple edition is a vastly simplified version where there's less emphasis on content/presentation separation, such as greater support for attribute styles and perhaps a LayoutTable element? Where each LayoutCell has a Context Order informing screen-readers in what order to read

Re: [WSG] I'll Have Fries(Chips)With My CMS

2005-01-24 Thread James Ellis
Hi The WSG has a dedicated CMS list - discussions about the applications can be best be answered there... All you need to do is edit your subscription at this link: http://webstandardsgroup.org/manage/login_edit.cfm Cheers James -- admin On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 03:09:08 +0100, JohnyB [EMAIL

[WSG] scribbles

2005-01-24 Thread designer
Hi All, I'm not 'doing a blog', but have started to put down some thoughts about various areas of this 'new philosophy' which have me (as a newcomer of only 4 months to 'standards') totally confused. The first endeavour concerns the classic - opening new windows. My scribbling can be seen at:

Re: [WSG] access keys - accessibility statements

2005-01-24 Thread Justin Thorp
We use number access keys. a good article - http://www.clagnut.com/blog/193/ It also helps that we are trying to set a standard within our organization. That way everyone is using the same access keys. Sincerely, Justin Thorp http://thinkthenthype.blogspot.com

[WSG] content-language

2005-01-24 Thread john
Can somebody please explain what the content-language meta tag is useful for? Is it required for validity? I have a site that is being translated into 6 languages, so should I include all the languages in the content-language tag? meta http-equiv=Content-Language content=en,pt,es,fr,nl,de /

[WSG] a good accessibility primer

2005-01-24 Thread Justin Thorp
Matt May from the W3C's Web Accessibility Initiative wrote a really good article for Digital Web magazine called, Accessibility From The Ground Up. Its a really good introduction to accessibility and what it is. I would recommend passing it around to fellow colleagues.

Re: [WSG] a good accessibility primer

2005-01-24 Thread Andy Budd
Justin Thorp wrote: http://www.digital-web.com/articles/accessibility_from_the_ground_up/ I did a presentation on Accessibility the other night. If you're interested, here are my lecture notes. http://www.andybudd.com/presentations/skillswap05/accessibility/ Andy Budd http://www.message.uk.com/

Re: [WSG] scribbles

2005-01-24 Thread Michael Cordover
Hi Bob, You make a good point. But the reason I don't use new windows isn't accesibility. It's an irritation at having new windows opened for me. Being a firefox user, I open in a new tab when I want to and in the current otherwise. People know what they want, generally, and are able to

Re: [WSG] content-language

2005-01-24 Thread Kornel Lesinski
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 14:06:00 +, john [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can somebody please explain what the content-language meta tag is useful for? It's not exactly meta tag. It's HTTP header. See: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc3282.html Is it required for validity? No. I have a site that is being

RE: [WSG] scribbles

2005-01-24 Thread Josh Withrow
I've seen where people use hidden DIV's that show/hide and who's content changes depending on the function at hand... That works REALLY well. Just an insight. I do think that popup style windows have a place in function and can be convenient. It's in a mixed spot for me. --- Josh Withrow

Re: [WSG] scribbles

2005-01-24 Thread Carmelyne Thompson
A question to answer your question. Would you consider pop up windows as focus-stealing from a users point of view with regards to controlling his browsing environment? http://asktog.com/Bughouse/10MostPersistentBugs.html compiled by Bruce Tognazzini - Carmelyne Thompson designer wrote: Hi

[WSG] Question about use of flash in a pure css page

2005-01-24 Thread Sven-Eric Buschgens
Hello, I am currently busy/trying to make a pure css website.. Not using tables or frames. The problem that has occured for the menu we are using a flashbased menu. But because the index.php file is only one file which reloads when clicking on something the flash menu also reloads all the time.

Re: [WSG] Question about use of flash in a pure css page

2005-01-24 Thread Kornel Lesinski
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:03:29 +0100, Sven-Eric Buschgens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem that has occured for the menu we are using a flashbased menu. Is removing flash menu altogether an option? It seems that you can do it with simple :hover and animgif or it might be possible to get

Re: [WSG] Question about use of flash in a pure css page

2005-01-24 Thread Carmelyne Thompson
One thing you may want to provide is an alternative text based menu with /or without flash plug ins enabled. I've never encountered a .swf file not refreshing along with the refresh button. :( - Carmelyne Thompson Sven-Eric Buschgens wrote: Hello, I am currently busy/trying to make a pure css

[WSG] re:scribbles

2005-01-24 Thread designer
Hi Carmelyne, - Original Message - From: Carmelyne Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] scribbles A question to answer your question. Would you consider pop up windows as focus-stealing from a users

[WSG] RE: newbie with popup menus question

2005-01-24 Thread Devendra Shrikhande
Andreas, David, Boss, et al: Thank you for taking the time to respond. Your comments have certainly helped. Had forgotten about the invisible load associated with adding those popup menus and the need for an alternate navigation system is JavaScript is turned off. Cheers! ¤ devendra ¤

Re: [WSG] Question about use of flash in a pure css page

2005-01-24 Thread Tom Livingston
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:03:29 +0100, Sven-Eric Buschgens wrote: Hello, The thing that I want is that either flash isn't reload on a refresh or loading a new content.. of a way to use flash in this situation where it wont be reloaded all the time. Hope that anyone can help me with this..

Re: [WSG] content-language

2005-01-24 Thread Anthony Timberlake
I am pretty sure it is for if you have a second language pack on your computer, the browser will load that before loading your site (allowing the user to see the page in their foreign tongue). On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 14:34:33 -, Kornel Lesinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 24 Jan 2005

Re: [WSG] Question about use of flash in a pure css page

2005-01-24 Thread Anthony Timberlake
Flash takes a while to load on slow connections. I wouldn't use it due to that fact. On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:45:26 -0500, Tom Livingston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:03:29 +0100, Sven-Eric Buschgens wrote: Hello, The thing that I want is that either flash isn't reload

Re: [WSG] content-language

2005-01-24 Thread john
Personally I think that HTML lang (or xml:lang) attributes are more appropriate (and precise). Could you please elaborate more on this? I'm just wondering what I should do for this site, since there are multiple languages. Should I do anything at all? Thanks. ~john _

Re: [WSG] Question about use of flash in a pure css page

2005-01-24 Thread Chris Kennon
Hi, I'm exciting a burning time, but I adore FLASH, when used correctly. In this instance spare yourself the headache and use an animated GIF solution. This will increase accessibility options and spare you time and energy. On Monday, January 24, 2005, at 07:03 AM, Sven-Eric Buschgens wrote:

Re: [WSG] content-language

2005-01-24 Thread Kornel Lesinski
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 17:08:47 +, john [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally I think that HTML lang (or xml:lang) attributes are more appropriate (and precise). Could you please elaborate more on this? I'm just wondering what I should do for this site, since there are multiple languages.

Re: [WSG] content-language[is it search op?]

2005-01-24 Thread Chris Kennon
Hi, Would this fall under search engine optimization? If so where could I find more on the subject? On Monday, January 24, 2005, at 09:35 AM, Kornel Lesinski wrote: Screen readers as well as search engines use this information. In HTML use lang, in XHTML/1.0 use lang and xml:lang, in XHTML/1.1

RE: [WSG] scribbles

2005-01-24 Thread Martin J. Lambert
designer wrote: http://www.betasite.fsnet.co.uk/comment/scribblings.html On this page, you write: Of course you can use javascript to open a new window (onClick), but that isn't the point, is it? I think that's exactly the point, however. My understanding is that the W3C did not remove the

Re: [WSG] content-language[is it search op?]

2005-01-24 Thread Kornel Lesinski
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:10:52 -0800, Chris Kennon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would this fall under search engine optimization? If so where could I find more on the subject? http://diveintoaccessibility.org/day_7_identifying_your_language.html -- regards, Kornel Lesiski

[WSG] Container primer?

2005-01-24 Thread Robin Lauryssen-Mitchell
It appears from some of the postings here that the use of Containers is considered to be superior to the use of Table. Is there a guide available to converting old beggers like me from Tables to Containers? Regards RobinClear skies and warm feet! (expat Brit in Czech Republic)Location: N

RE: [WSG] Container primer?

2005-01-24 Thread Ted Drake
Try the Eric Meyers on CSS book, part one or two. It will walk you through the evolution of tables to standards in easy steps. -Original Message-From: Robin Lauryssen-Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 10:41 AMTo:

[WSG] Nav Before or After Main Content

2005-01-24 Thread Michael Wilson
Hi, Over the last year or so, I've been steadily pushing for improved use of standards within one of my organizations sites. I've moved the site away away from table based layouts and implemented CSS for presentation. The initial transition (01) was an improvement; however, there are still

Re: [WSG] Nav Before or After Main Content

2005-01-24 Thread Anthony Timberlake
I like the second one much better! Very nice. On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 14:26:46 -0500, Michael Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Over the last year or so, I've been steadily pushing for improved use of standards within one of my organizations sites. I've moved the site away away from table

RE: [WSG] content-language[is it search op?]

2005-01-24 Thread Devendra Shrikhande
Thanks Kornel. Very useful resource. devendra -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kornel Lesinski Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 11:32 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] content-language[is it search op?] On Mon, 24

Re: [WSG] Question about use of flash in a pure css page

2005-01-24 Thread csslist
since you are using a server-side language you can do an "if" statement to where if it meets the flash needs it gives the flash menu if not gives an alternative menu. or if just refreshing is the problem, cache the swf immediately. ok i think i read that wrong i use coldfusion and i know what i'd

Re: [WSG] Nav Before or After Main Content

2005-01-24 Thread russ - maxdesign
One of the issues I wanted to address first was source order versus screen arrangement of the various pieces of content. In the current So what do you guys think? There is no right or wrong. There are the two basic arguments. NAV BEFORE * theoretically better for Search Engine Optimisation

Re: [WSG] Nav Before or After Main Content

2005-01-24 Thread Terrence Wood
Russ, isn't it NAV AFTER that is better for SEO, as the content is at the top -- this leads to better keyword density, likliness of headings being found etc?. Terrence Wood. russ - maxdesign wrote: NAV BEFORE * theoretically better for Search Engine Optimisation (as the content is at the top)

Re: [WSG] Nav Before or After Main Content

2005-01-24 Thread russ - maxdesign
Russ, isn't it NAV AFTER that is better for SEO, as the content is at Ooppps... Completely correct. The two headings should be reversed... NAV AFTER * theoretically better for Search Engine Optimisation (as the content is at the top) NAV BEFORE * theoretically better for blind users (it is

Re: [WSG] Nav Before or After Main Content

2005-01-24 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
Michael Wilson wrote: My question at this point is: which is a better approach--nav first with a skip to content link or nav last with a skip to nav link? I'm inclined to think putting the nav last or at least after the main content is better for screen readers and such as well as for SEO, but I

[WSG] Image replacement and printing

2005-01-24 Thread Ryan Sabir
Hi all, We've just been investigating using Fahrner Image Replacement, or one of its more accessibility friendly derivatives, when we came across the problem of printing. It seems that in IE the default option is to not print background images and colours. So a person printing our web page will

RE: [WSG] Nav Before or After Main Content

2005-01-24 Thread Mike Pepper
One thing highlighted at an accessibility site design awards ceremony I recently attended was the wish for developers to include a site map link at the head jump links on all pages so non-sighted users could immediately jump to the page and get a feel for site relevance to search topic, especially

Re: [WSG] Image replacement and printing

2005-01-24 Thread Rimantas Liubertas
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 10:08:47 +1100, Ryan Sabir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... It seems that in IE the default option is to not print background images and colours. So a person printing our web page will not be getting any of the headings that have been replaced with images. Has anyone found a

RE: [WSG] Image replacement and printing

2005-01-24 Thread Ted Drake
Rimantas is only giving half the answer. I came across this problem as well, and although my solution isn't the most elegant, it works. We placed a div in the header with a class=print. The div contains a header image that looks good on the printed page. The style sheet has .print

Re: [WSG] scribbles

2005-01-24 Thread Ben Curtis
I ... have started to put down some thoughts about various areas of this 'new philosophy' which have me (as a newcomer of only 4 months to 'standards') totally confused. The first endeavour concerns the classic - opening new windows. My scribbling can be seen at:

Re: [WSG] Future XHTML Proposals?

2005-01-24 Thread Ben Curtis
I was thinking about your stereotypical Angelfire / Tripod user, the beginner hobbyist. I think about them a *lot*. If it weren't for the ease of publishing, the web would not have taken off. Doubt me? How many other networked document protocols created in the early 90's or before do you use

[WSG] Heading without line break

2005-01-24 Thread Ryan Sabir
Heya? How would I tell a stylesheet to not put a line break at the end of an Hx tag? e.g. h3My heading/h3 and some more text. I want the words and some more text. to appear on the same line. How would I do this? thanks, bye! --- Ryan Sabir Newgency Pty Ltd 2a Broughton

Re: [WSG] Heading without line break

2005-01-24 Thread Gary Menzel
Have you tried changing the DISPLAY style to INLINE instead of BLOCK ? Gary On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:31:15 +1100, Ryan Sabir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Heya? How would I tell a stylesheet to not put a line break at the end of an Hx tag? e.g. h3My heading/h3 and some more text. I want

Re: [WSG] Heading without line break

2005-01-24 Thread Jeff Lowder - Accessibility 1st
display: inline Cheers Jeff Lowder Accessibility 1st E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: http://www.accessibility1st.com.au On 25/1/05 12:31 PM, Ryan Sabir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Heya? How would I tell a stylesheet to not put a line break at the end of an Hx tag? e.g. h3My

Re: [WSG] Heading without line break

2005-01-24 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Ryan Sabir wrote: How would I tell a stylesheet to not put a line break at the end of an Hx tag? Apply display: inline to both the heading and the following tag. Alternately, you could play with display: run-in applied just to the heading, but it may not be supported by all browsers.

[WSG] Election campaign websites

2005-01-24 Thread Miles Burke
It is interesting to note that for us lot in Western Australia, that none of the political party campaign websites for the state election next month actually meet html or css validation. http://www.waliberals.net/ http://betterfuture.com.au http://www.greens.org.au http://wwwdemocrats.org.au

[WSG] Text wrapping and background images

2005-01-24 Thread Ryan Sabir
Hi all, me again... Strange problem with text wrapping and background images here: http://www.newgency.com/ryans/test/test.html I'm trying to get the 'read more' graphic to always sit at the right of the 'Read more' text. In Firefox this works fine, but in IE, when the 'Read more' text wraps,

Re: [WSG] Text wrapping and background images

2005-01-24 Thread Bert Doorn
G'day http://www.newgency.com/ryans/test/test.html I'm trying to get the 'read more' graphic to always sit at the right of the 'Read more' text. ... Is there any way to make this work correctly across browsers? or will I have to give up on using css to put that image there. The style info is in

Re: [WSG] Nav Before or After Main Content

2005-01-24 Thread Gunlaug Srtun
Mike Pepper wrote: One thing highlighted at an accessibility site design awards ceremony I recently attended was the wish for developers to include a site map link at the head jump links on all pages so non-sighted users could immediately jump to the page and get a feel for site relevance to

RE: [WSG] Container primer?

2005-01-24 Thread Robin Lauryssen-Mitchell
Thanks for the info. Whilst waiting for books to be delivered I have found this site. Thought it might be useful to other aged ones, such as myself, to whom HTML used to mean "High tea mi' Lord?": http://www.elated.com/tutorials/authoring/css/ Regards RobinClear skies and warm feet! (expat Brit