[WSG] Final Reminder - Join us next week in Berlin: 27th Unicode Conference

2005-03-31 Thread Tex Texin
  Unicode, Cultural Diversity and Multilingual Computing
  http://www.global-conference.com/iuc27/
 Berlin, Germany
 April 6-8, 2005

**
   A few spaces still available!
**

Program Highlights:
==

  * Multilingual and Multicultural Computing
  * Computing in the Expanded European Union
  * Web Internationalization
  * Localization Technologies, sponsored by TILP (www.tilponline.org)
  * Language Support in Francophone Africa  NEW!!
An in-depth workshop, conducted in French, led by a panel 
of experts including Donald Osborn on the languages of 
Francophone Africa. 

  * Other highlights:
- Common Locale Data Repository (CLDR)
- Internationalized Web Addresses
- A progress report on Language Tags
- Supplementary characters in Linux
- Internationalized mobile applications

  * Tutorials and implementation support:
  One day of our highly acclaimed tutorials, including 
  Unicode 4.0, Web internationalization, XML and localization,
  getting started with ICU, and designing culturally appropriate 
  user interfaces. 
 
Register now at http://www.global-conference.com/iuc27/

WHO SHOULD ATTEND?

If you have a limited training budget, this is the one
Internationalization
conference you need.  Send staff that are involved in either
Unicode-enabling software, or internationalization of software and the
Internet, including: managers, software engineers, systems analysts,
font
designers, graphic designers, content developers, Web designers, Web
administrators, system administrators, technical writers, and product
marketing personnel.

CONFERENCE WEB SITE, PROGRAM and REGISTRATION

The Conference Program and Registration form are available at the
Conference Web site:

   http://www.global-conference.com/iuc27/

GLOBAL COMPUTING SHOWCASE

Visit the Showcase to find out more about products supporting the
Unicode Standard, and products and services that can help you
globalize/localize your software, documentation and Internet content.

For more information, please see:
   http://www.global-conference.com/iuc27/showcase.html

CONFERENCE VENUE

The Conference will take place at the:

  Crowne Plaza Berlin City Centre
  Nuernberger Strasse 65
  D-10787 Berlin
  Germany

  Tel: +49 (0) 30 21 00 70
  Fax: +49 (0) 30 21 32 00 9

CONFERENCE MANAGEMENT

   Global Meeting Services Inc.
   8949 Lombard Place, #416
   San Diego, CA 92122, USA

   Tel: +1 858 638 0206 (voice)
   +1 858 638 0504 (fax)

   Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   or: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

THE UNICODE CONSORTIUM

The Unicode Consortium was founded as a non-profit organization in 1991.
It is dedicated to the development, maintenance and promotion of The
Unicode Standard, a worldwide character encoding. The Unicode Standard
encodes the characters of the world's principal scripts and languages,
and is code-for-code identical to the international standard ISO/IEC
10646. In addition to cooperating with ISO on the future development of
ISO/IEC 10646, the Consortium is responsible for providing character
properties and algorithms for use in implementations. Today the
membership base of the Unicode Consortium includes major computer
corporations, software producers, database vendors, research
institutions, international agencies and various user groups.

For further information on the Unicode Standard, visit the Unicode Web
site at http://www.unicode.org

*  *  *  *  *

Unicode(r) and the Unicode logo are registered trademarks of Unicode,
Inc. Used with permission.
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[WSG] Information Architecture and relevence to Web Standards Development

2005-03-31 Thread Neerav
A few days I came across the term Information Architecture in the 
context of a web development position listed on a recruitment companys 
website advertising for:

An Information architect with :
Strong HTML/DHTML/XHTML/CSS/Javascript skills,
Dreamweaver/MX knowledge 
an understanding of W3C Accessibility Standard
I had no idea what this meant so I thought id do a little research, the 
results of which are published at: 
http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/2005/03/31/demystifying-the-term-information-architecture/

--
Neerav Bhatt
http://www.bhatt.id.au
Web Development  IT consultancy
http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts
http://www.bhatt.id.au/photos/
http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav
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RE: [WSG] Hidden Content

2005-03-31 Thread Mike Foskett
Hi all,

I don't actually believe that CSS styling will make any difference to search 
engine ranking.
These robots spend enough time trawling through the HTML content.
It would be time wasted to cross reference the content against: visibility, 
display, colours used, z-index and positioning.

I recently thought I had a holding page barred for unintentional content 
stuffing / hiding.
http://www.senuik.com/ 
On asking Google it turns out it wasn't, just ranked low (lack of links I 
presume) appearing at 20 and 27.

The 'hiding' methods used were colour and positioning.
The intent was for styled text to display when Flash wasn't available 
(accessibility).

My point is if this page wasn't barred then I think it incredibly unlikely that 
other hiding techniques would be.

Does anyone actually know of a page barred, blacklisted or banned by Google?
I somehow doubt they ever do. 
Something to do with possible litigation if they are incorrect in their 
analysis?

These are just my thoughts on the matter and are in no way conclusive.



mike 2k:)2


 
 Mike Foskett 
 Web Standards, Accessibility  Testing Consultant
 Multimedia Publishing and Production 
 British Educational Communications and Technology Agency (Becta) 
 Milburn Hill Road, Science Park, Coventry CV4 7JJ 
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Tel:  02476 416994  Ext 3342 [Tuesday - Thursday]
 Fax: 02476 411410 
 www.becta.org.uk

 




-Original Message-
From: Tom Livingston [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 30 March 2005 19:56
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Hidden Content


So you're using one practice to compensate for another bad practice...


If your site is entirely in Flash - well, too bad. It shouldn't be.

Well.

Flash actually is searchable. There's even a 
search SDK for search engines. It's also 
accessible, with tab order/indexing, etc.

If your site is entirely Flash, it _is_ a good 
idea to have an (X)HTML-based alternative for 
those who don't have, or won't install, the 
plug-in (the number of which is declining daily). 
If this is the case, a link to it (like in the 
footer) will allow even better spidering by 
search engines.

2¢ deposited...

-- 
-
Tom Livingston
Senior Multimedia Artist
Media Logic
mlinc.com
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[WSG] need design suggestions

2005-03-31 Thread john
Hello, group.
Can get a bit of advice for you all, please?  My client has suddenly 
informed me that they would like to enable the images of their products 
to be enlarged, if the user wishes.  This wasn't originally in the spec, 
and I didn't design it for such a feature.  However, this morning I took 
some time and came up with something.  I'm not entirely happy with it, 
and think it could be improved with a little more CSS.

Ideally, I think being able replace the text on the left with a centered 
image in that DIV would be good, but I'm not sure how to do that.  I'm 
not entirely in love with the onmousedown solution I used, as it takes 
some time for the image to load.  Would it be possible, when the user 
clicks and holds on the thumb, that a picture loading message would 
replace the text on the left, followed by the image itself?  Your 
suggestions are very much appreciated.  I'm not a qualified javascript 
(or CSS, really) person, so I may need some of this spelled out for me. 
 I hope nobody minds.

site:  http://www.drzeus.net/clients/arrecadacao/decor/
css:  http://www.drzeus.net/clients/arrecadacao/style.css
Thanks.
--
~john
_
Dr. Zeus Web Design
http://www.DrZeus.net
content without clutter
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[WSG] typographic challenge with css

2005-03-31 Thread Vaska . WSG
Hi folks:
I'm trying to do something and I'm not sure if this is possible.  What 
I want to do is write simple sentence constructed of left floated 
divs...like...

div class='sentence'This/div
div class='sentence'is/div
div class='sentence'a/div
div class='sentence'sentence./div
The tricky part, since I can't do this with a span (I believe) is that 
I only want class='sentence' to be just the width of the word itself 
(just as a span does it).  Additionally, and this is why it's 
necessary, I want to mark up each div with further things (the 'sub' 
class would center the text underneath the 'sentence' class and would 
have smaller text)...

div class='sentence'
This
div class='sub'A/div
/div
div class='sentence'
is
div class='sub'A/div
/div
div class='sentence'
a
div class='sub'A/div
/div
div class='sentence'
sentence.
div class='sub'A/div
/div
???
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Re: [WSG] Hidden Content

2005-03-31 Thread Kay Smoljak
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 10:46:23 +0100, Mike Foskett
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I don't actually believe that CSS styling will make any difference to search 
 engine ranking.
 These robots spend enough time trawling through the HTML content.
 It would be time wasted to cross reference the content against: visibility, 
 display, colours used, z-index and positioning.

You can see what search engines request by looking at your log files.
They've never requested my css files. However, I read somewhere a
Google staff member said something like we reserve the right to index
css files or not which means they may start in the future.

 Does anyone actually know of a page barred, blacklisted or banned by Google?
 I somehow doubt they ever do.

They do ban sites - it happened to one of my clients (although nothing
to do with css) and it took about eight months of campaigning to get
the site included again. However, the biggest risk is your competitors
- if I see a site spamming a search engine I report it. Many people do
the same, and there *have* been cases of the engines taking action.

-- 
Kay Smoljak
http://kay.smoljak.com/
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Re: [WSG] typographic challenge with css

2005-03-31 Thread Kornel Lesinski
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:31:25 +0100, Vaska.WSG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The tricky part, since I can't do this with a span (I believe) is that I  
only want class='sentence' to be just the width of the word itself (just  
as a span does it)
a bit offtopic note:
From CSS point of view there is no difference between tags.
You can* do same things with span, div, b, table or even apply
styles to title and meta tags.
*) except old buggy browsers, ofcourse
Magic:
span {display: block;}
div {display: inline;}
and you have presenation of those two swapped!
This doesn't affect HTML, which still has to follow
it's own rules and should carry semantics.
--
regards, Kornel Lesiski
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Re: [WSG] typographic challenge with css

2005-03-31 Thread Vaska . WSG
Thanks for that.  I was missing the span display:block...plus I had 
forgotten the simplicity of a floated div that doesn't have a width 
applied to it.

*) except old buggy browsers, ofcourse
Yep...it's will work in IE5/Mac is it's just span (without 
display:block) oddly enough, otherwise it doesn't.  Good thing I don't 
really develop for that browser any more.  I still need to check all of 
this on IE5/PC though...later.  ;)

On Mar 31, 2005, at 2:00 PM, Kornel Lesinski wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:31:25 +0100, Vaska.WSG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The tricky part, since I can't do this with a span (I believe) is 
that I only want class='sentence' to be just the width of the word 
itself (just as a span does it)
a bit offtopic note:
From CSS point of view there is no difference between tags.
You can* do same things with span, div, b, table or even apply
styles to title and meta tags.
*) except old buggy browsers, ofcourse
Magic:
span {display: block;}
div {display: inline;}
and you have presenation of those two swapped!
This doesn't affect HTML, which still has to follow
it's own rules and should carry semantics.
--
regards, Kornel Lesi?ski
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Re: [WSG] Hidden Content

2005-03-31 Thread Ben Hamilton
Google do remove pages from their index. Current case in point is WordPress.
Andre Torrez http://notes.torrez.org/ was the first to note that links 
to the articles (168,000 of them!) delare/delwere hidden on the 
Wordpress homepage using negative positioning with CSS.

See http://www.waxy.org/archive/2005/03/30/wordpres.shtml for more.
Ben.
Kay Smoljak wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 10:46:23 +0100, Mike Foskett
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 

I don't actually believe that CSS styling will make any difference to search engine ranking.
These robots spend enough time trawling through the HTML content.
It would be time wasted to cross reference the content against: visibility, display, colours used, z-index and positioning.
   

You can see what search engines request by looking at your log files.
They've never requested my css files. However, I read somewhere a
Google staff member said something like we reserve the right to index
css files or not which means they may start in the future.
 

Does anyone actually know of a page barred, blacklisted or banned by Google?
I somehow doubt they ever do.
   

They do ban sites - it happened to one of my clients (although nothing
to do with css) and it took about eight months of campaigning to get
the site included again. However, the biggest risk is your competitors
- if I see a site spamming a search engine I report it. Many people do
the same, and there *have* been cases of the engines taking action.
 


--
Ben Hamilton
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hamilton.id.au/?:-) 

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RE: [WSG] Hidden Content

2005-03-31 Thread Mike Foskett

It still comes down to the legalities.
If Google receive a complaint, and it appears justifiable, then it is acted 
upon in good faith.
There is a document trail which is admissible as proof.

If a googlebot, on the other hand, automatically bans a site for what it thinks 
is wrong.
Then Google are solely responsible, and could be deemed as acting upon impulse 
rather than on due consideration.
A point lawyers would love to take to court.

But again this is only opinion.
Maybe the question should've been Have you heard of a site banned, barred or 
blacklisted without a complaint?

regards

mike 2k:)2


 
 Mike Foskett 
 Web Standards, Accessibility  Testing Consultant
 Multimedia Publishing and Production 
 British Educational Communications and Technology Agency (Becta) 
 Milburn Hill Road, Science Park, Coventry CV4 7JJ 
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Tel:  02476 416994  Ext 3342 [Tuesday - Thursday]
 Fax: 02476 411410 
 www.becta.org.uk

 




-Original Message-
From: Kay Smoljak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 31 March 2005 12:50
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Hidden Content


On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 10:46:23 +0100, Mike Foskett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I don't actually believe that CSS styling will make any difference to 
 search engine ranking. These robots spend enough time trawling through 
 the HTML content. It would be time wasted to cross reference the 
 content against: visibility, display, colours used, z-index and 
 positioning.

You can see what search engines request by looking at your log files. They've 
never requested my css files. However, I read somewhere a Google staff member 
said something like we reserve the right to index css files or not which 
means they may start in the future.

 Does anyone actually know of a page barred, blacklisted or banned by 
 Google? I somehow doubt they ever do.

They do ban sites - it happened to one of my clients (although nothing to do 
with css) and it took about eight months of campaigning to get the site 
included again. However, the biggest risk is your competitors
- if I see a site spamming a search engine I report it. Many people do the 
same, and there *have* been cases of the engines taking action.

-- 
Kay Smoljak
http://kay.smoljak.com/
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Re: [WSG] Information Architecture and relevence to Web Standards Development

2005-03-31 Thread Ben Bishop
 Information Architecture and relevance to Web Standards Development

I missed the bit where you explained the relevance to Web Standards,
but I'm sure you're just getting the topic warmed up :)

While IA is indeed important, only discussions specifically on IA 
Web Standards would be on-topic here.

There are good resources out there. IAWiki makes a good start:
http://www.iawiki.net/IAwiki

And if you are still Sydney based, you might even check out the IA
meetings (see the IAWiki site.)


-Ben
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Re: [WSG] Hidden Content

2005-03-31 Thread Tom Livingston
I'm not flaming you - but have you seen this:
Why Google's indexing of swfs is worthless
http://www.quasimondo.com/archives/000404.php

Same old same old. If you read the comments, one person states that 
he has a Flash-based forum that is entirely indexed by Google.

--
-
Tom Livingston
Senior Multimedia Artist
Media Logic
mlinc.com
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[WSG] Re: Hidden Content

2005-03-31 Thread Tom Livingston
  Flash actually is searchable.
Hmm. Does it have to be a specific version of flash, built a specific
way? Just thinking of claims that flash is accessible, which
actually means flash mx can be accessible if the developer really
knows what they are doing; and the user knows how to use it, has the
latest plugin and doesn't have flash disabled.
 If your site is entirely Flash, it _is_ a good
 idea to have an (X)HTML-based alternative for
 those who don't have, or won't install, the
 plug-in (the number of which is declining daily).
The flip side is that an increasing number of users now
disable/selectively enable Flash content. Opera and Firefox both have
easy ways to control plugins; and now that Flash ads are the new
popups, people are motivated to disable Flash. As you can probably
guess, I'm one of those people :)
It's amazing how many sites have absolutely no content at all when
Flash is disabled - not even a turn flash on message.
We do use MX2004 here. But to be honest, without even trying, we were 
able to tab to every link on our site. No special knowledge or coding.

FWIW, we check and redirect to an XHTML site if the user is without 
the Flash plugin.

--
-
Tom Livingston
Senior Multimedia Artist
Media Logic
mlinc.com
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Re: [WSG] Hidden Content

2005-03-31 Thread Kornel Lesinski
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:35:50 +0100, Tom Livingston
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm not flaming you - but have you seen this:
Why Google's indexing of swfs is worthless
http://www.quasimondo.com/archives/000404.php
Same old same old. If you read the comments, one person states that he  
has a Flash-based forum that is entirely indexed by Google.
Have you seen it? It's not Flash that gets indexed.
He outputs all content as HTML and puts Flash on top of it.
--
regards, Kornel Lesiski
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[WSG] Structure Advice and IE display - solutionpark.ch

2005-03-31 Thread Michael Vogt
Hi.

I see a lot of usefull advice for all the requests for site review on
this list, so please allow me to also provide a page from a site I'm
currently working on, and asking for feedback.

My main interest is feedback for the HTML-structure. While we are
bound to HTML 4 trans right now, because our otherwise clever
development platform outputs old HTML, I would like to prepare as much
as possible for the switch to XHTML when the bugs are fixed in the
platform.

The structure as it is comes from a layout generator somewhere on the
web. While I have good results so far with it, I wonder whether the
nested divs are really necessary, because changing the layout is quite
complex. So any feedback and advice is highly welcome.

Page: 
http://powerplay.solutionpark.ch/test.html

CSS:
http://powerplay.solutionpark.ch/SSRD_files/css/main.css
http://powerplay.solutionpark.ch/SSRD_files/css/div.css


When your looking at the page with Internet Explorer on Windows, you
will see white areas on the page, where the background-color set on
the html/body elements should be displayed. Any idea where this comes
from?


Any feedback is welcome,
Michael Vogt
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[WSG] Re: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org

2005-03-31 Thread Jacqueline MARCUS

Thank you for your email. I am on leave from April 1 till April 10. If
you have any urgent queries please call Online Services on  extensions
9084, 9088 or 9048.

regards,
Jacqueline Marcus

Disclaimer: This message is intended for the addressee named and may
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[WSG] list bullet question

2005-03-31 Thread Drake, Ted C.
I have a global list question.

When creating custom bullets, I tend to use the background and padding
avenue. I know you can also assign an image as a bullet. My question is,
which is better?  Is one method more bullet-proof?

Thank you for any input
Ted

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[WSG] Extra hidden content

2005-03-31 Thread Stevio
How do you handle the situation of hidden elements becoming displayed when 
the normal stylesheet is not used? Is this a problem that concerns you?

For example, I quite often have two headers - one which integrates with the 
site design when viewed on screen, and one which is used for printing 
(simplified, no background colours etc). Various other elements might be 
hidden and shown when printing, such as side elements removed etc to narrow 
the page for printing.

The problem can come when the page is viewed without the stylesheet, and two 
headers can be displayed, for example.

What do you think of this?
Thanks,
Stephen 


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Re: [WSG] list bullet question

2005-03-31 Thread russ - maxdesign
Hi Ted,
All personal opinion, but the bullet as background image has a lot of
advantages:

- You have far more control over the positioning of the bullet, as you can
set it in any position using a range of units (pixel, ems, percents. You can
even position the bullets under the list items if desired.
- As it is positioned exactly, it is also more cross-browser stable, at
least across the modern CS supporting browsers.

Russ

 
 When creating custom bullets, I tend to use the background and padding
 avenue. I know you can also assign an image as a bullet. My question is,
 which is better?  Is one method more bullet-proof?
 

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Re: [WSG] list bullet question

2005-03-31 Thread Alan Trick




Hi,
There are several advatages to using list-style-image

  you can click on the image to select the list item
  it's slightly simpler
  you can still have another background-image on the element

IMHO, the bullet as background image is still better though because of
buggy css support.

Alan Trick

  Hi Ted,
All personal opinion, but the bullet as background image has a lot of
advantages:

- You have far more control over the positioning of the bullet, as you can
set it in any position using a range of units (pixel, ems, percents. You can
even position the bullets under the list items if desired.
- As it is positioned exactly, it is also more cross-browser stable, at
least across the modern CS supporting browsers.

Russ
  
  
When creating custom bullets, I tend to use the background and padding
avenue. I know you can also assign an image as a bullet. My question is,
which is better?  Is one method more bullet-proof?
  





Re: [WSG] Extra hidden content

2005-03-31 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Stevio wrote:
How do you handle the situation of hidden elements becoming displayed 
when the normal stylesheet is not used? Is this a problem that concerns 
you?
Pages should make sense when stylesheets are disabled (for users of 
screenreaders, text-only browsers, users with css disabled, search 
engine spiders, etc)...so I'd advise against the above mentioned practice.

IMHO, of course.
--
Patrick H. Lauke
_
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
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Re: [WSG] Hidden Content

2005-03-31 Thread Chris Dimmock
Tom Livingston wrote:
Flash actually is searchable. There's even a
search SDK for search engines. It's also
accessible, with tab order/indexing, etc.

Search SDK was designed as a tool for search engines themselves to
extract data from Flash (up to V6) files - the key issue, as outlined
below, is When a search engine deploys this SDK. It was lauched back
in 2002.

The Macromedia Flash Search Engine SDK 1.0 provides search engines
with the means to search and index Macromedia Flash (SWF) movies. The
swf2html utility used by the SDK extracts text and links from a
Macromedia Flash SWF file, and outputs it to stdout or to an HTML
document. When a search engine deploys this SDK, users can locate
relevant Flash content when searching by keyword or file type.
 
Only one SE I know of ever deployed SDK - back in 2002. And that
search engine got gobbled up by one of the larger ones.

The Macromedia Flash Search Engine SDK is designed for search engine
application engineering teams. Users of the SDK can add Flash file
decompression, parsing, and indexing features to their server-based
search applications.

http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/accessibility/features/flash/player.html

Macromedia's perception of accessibility is slightly different to many
other peoples..

Make movies and put them on the internet if you want - but don't kid
yourself that a text based indexing spider is interested in indexing
or ranking them - unless you have substantial inbound links - and even
then you'll only get ranked for one or two search phrases.

Chris
http://www.cogentis.com.au

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:17:31 +0100, Kornel Lesinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:35:50 +0100, Tom Livingston
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I'm not flaming you - but have you seen this:
 
  Why Google's indexing of swfs is worthless
  http://www.quasimondo.com/archives/000404.php
 
  Same old same old. If you read the comments, one person states that he
  has a Flash-based forum that is entirely indexed by Google.
 
 Have you seen it? It's not Flash that gets indexed.
 He outputs all content as HTML and puts Flash on top of it.
 
 --
 regards, Kornel Lesiski
 
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[WSG] Any Safari 1.0 users out there?

2005-03-31 Thread Maxine Sherrin
I wonder if someone could confirm something for me. I got a comment the 
other day about a specific page at our site having major problems in 
Safari 1.0. I don't actually have access to Safari 1.0, and the person 
who made the comment now seems to have disappeared.

But, being a in the business of selling software to Mac customers, and 
this being the opening page to our site, I'm a little paranoid about 
something like this. I've actually worked on instinct and figured that 
the problem was being caused by using an image replacement technique, 
so I've ditched this and gone back to a good old inline image.
I'd really appreciate it if someone who had Safari 1.0 could have a 
look at this page for me.

http://www.westciv.com/style_master/index.html
And if it is a stinking wreck, are other pages the same?, eg
http://www.westciv.com/style_master/product_info/index.html
TIA
Maxine
Maxine Sherrin

web : westciv.com
blog : http://westciv.typepad.com/standards/
flickr : http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxine/
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Re: [WSG] Any Safari 1.0 users out there?

2005-03-31 Thread Philippe Wittenbergh
On 1 Apr 2005, at 1:16 pm, Maxine Sherrin wrote:
I wonder if someone could confirm something for me. I got a comment 
the other day about a specific page at our site having major problems 
in Safari 1.0. I don't actually have access to Safari 1.0, and the 
person who made the comment now seems to have disappeared.
You can use Omniweb 4.5 or 5.0 which rely on the Safari 1.0 engine. 
Omniweb 5.1 use the latest WebKit (same as Safari 1.2). Should be 
available somewhere, else just ask.
But, being a in the business of selling software to Mac customers, and 
this being the opening page to our site, I'm a little paranoid about 
something like this. I've actually worked on instinct and figured that 
the problem was being caused by using an image replacement technique, 
so I've ditched this and gone back to a good old inline image.
I'd really appreciate it if someone who had Safari 1.0 could have a 
look at this page for me.

http://www.westciv.com/style_master/index.html
(Viewing with Omniweb on Panther)
There is small problem at the bottom right, the screenshots cover up 
the xhtml/css buttons; screen grab on your way. Otherwise identical to  
Safari/Firefox.

(In Omniweb 4.5, the screenshots are cut of)
Omniweb 5.0 has a smaller default font-size than other browser, bug 
fixed in Omniweb 5.1, this might be part of the explanation. If I 
reduce the font-size in Firefox, the same problem happens.

And if it is a stinking wreck, are other pages the same?, eg
http://www.westciv.com/style_master/product_info/index.html
A quick look around with Safari 1.2 and Omniweb 5.0, I'd say yes.
Philippe
---/---
Philippe Wittenbergh
now live : http://emps.l-c-n.com/
code | design | web projects : http://www.l-c-n.com/
IE5 Mac bugs and oddities : http://www.l-c-n.com/IE5tests/
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Re: [WSG] Any Safari 1.0 users out there?

2005-03-31 Thread JonathanC
Looks fine here.

(Safari 1.0, Mac OSX 10.2.8)

Regards,

Jonathan Cooper
Manager of Information / Website
Art Gallery of New South Wales
Sydney, Australia
http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 01/04/2005 02:16:51 PM:

 I wonder if someone could confirm something for me. I got a comment the 
 other day about a specific page at our site having major problems in 
 Safari 1.0. I don't actually have access to Safari 1.0, and the person 
 who made the comment now seems to have disappeared.
 
 But, being a in the business of selling software to Mac customers, and 
 this being the opening page to our site, I'm a little paranoid about 
 something like this. I've actually worked on instinct and figured that 
 the problem was being caused by using an image replacement technique, 
 so I've ditched this and gone back to a good old inline image.
 I'd really appreciate it if someone who had Safari 1.0 could have a 
 look at this page for me.
 
 http://www.westciv.com/style_master/index.html
 
 And if it is a stinking wreck, are other pages the same?, eg
 
 http://www.westciv.com/style_master/product_info/index.html
 
 TIA
 
 Maxine
 
 Maxine Sherrin
 
 web : westciv.com
 blog : http://westciv.typepad.com/standards/
 flickr : http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxine/
 
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[WSG] Main Content won't Center Align in IE

2005-03-31 Thread standards
G'day Mates,

I've persuaded a client to convert their small web site to standards, and
I'm in the process of removing tables, and using CSS to control the layout
and design.

My problem is the main content area on the homepage is left justified in
IE, but center aligned in FF and Opera, which is correct. The following is
a snippet from my CSS file, which controls the main content area:

#container
{position: relative;
 width: 760px;
 margin: 15px auto;
 font: 12px verdana, helvetica, arial, sans-serif;
 text-align: justify;
 line-height: 16pt;
 color: #000;
 padding: 10px;}

I want it to center align in IE too therefore what am I doing wrong?
Here's the URL for the test file: http://www.waltermortgage.com/index1.stm

Any advice is always appreciated!

Respectfully requested,
Mario S. Cisneros



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Re: [WSG] Main Content won't Center Align in IE

2005-03-31 Thread Chris Stratford
Hey Mario,
IE Doesnt understand margin: auto
You need to give the parent container text-align: center - then in the 
child (#container) have: text-align: left to fix the centered text.

Simply add this to your body {} CSS:
text-align: center;
Because you already have: text-align: justify - there wont be any other 
problems :)
aww and since your table is centered, that causes no problems either!

:)
Cheers
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
G'day Mates,
I've persuaded a client to convert their small web site to standards, and
I'm in the process of removing tables, and using CSS to control the layout
and design.
My problem is the main content area on the homepage is left justified in
IE, but center aligned in FF and Opera, which is correct. The following is
a snippet from my CSS file, which controls the main content area:
#container
{position: relative;
width: 760px;
margin: 15px auto;
font: 12px verdana, helvetica, arial, sans-serif;
text-align: justify;
line-height: 16pt;
color: #000;
padding: 10px;}
I want it to center align in IE too therefore what am I doing wrong?
Here's the URL for the test file: http://www.waltermortgage.com/index1.stm
Any advice is always appreciated!
Respectfully requested,
Mario S. Cisneros

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--

Chris Stratford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.neester.com

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Re: [WSG] Main Content won't Center Align in IE

2005-03-31 Thread Kazuhito Kidachi
Hi,

I think your question is a kind of FAQ, and the solution is adding
text-align:center; style to the body element, I guess.

On Apr 1, 2005 3:58 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 My problem is the main content area on the homepage is left justified in
 IE, but center aligned in FF and Opera, which is correct. The following is
 a snippet from my CSS file, which controls the main content area:
 
 #container
 {position: relative;
  width: 760px;
  margin: 15px auto;
  font: 12px verdana, helvetica, arial, sans-serif;
  text-align: justify;
  line-height: 16pt;
  color: #000;
  padding: 10px;}
 
 I want it to center align in IE too therefore what am I doing wrong?
 Here's the URL for the test file: http://www.waltermortgage.com/index1.stm



-- 
Kazuhito Kidachi
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[WSG] Vertical navbar with hidden menu items in CSS

2005-03-31 Thread Danielle Hickie
Does any one know how to do this sort of menu with CSS
only? I am looking for something that works in Ie 5.5
and Firefox 1.0. 

The example I'm looking at:

http://tutorials.alsacreations.com/deroulant/menu-vertical.htm


Thanks very much,

Dan Hickie
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Re: [WSG] Main Content won't Center Align in IE

2005-03-31 Thread David Laakso
On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 00:58:55 -0600 (CST),  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]
I want it to center align in IE too therefore what am I doing wrong?
Here's the URL for the test file:  
http://www.waltermortgage.com/index1.stm
Any advice is always appreciated!
Add text-align: center to the body declaration.
body  { background: #fff; margin: 0; padding: 0; text-align: center; }
(you may also want to run the HTML file through Tidy Online  
http://infohound.net/tidy/ to  check and clean it).
Respectfully requested,
Mario S. Cisneros
Best,
David
--
de gustibus non est disputandum
http://www.dlaakso.com/
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Re: [WSG] Main Content won't Center Align in IE

2005-03-31 Thread standards
Chris,

I feel stupid! I completely forgot IE doesn't recognize margin: auto,
and I've inserted text-align: center in the CSS body rule in another
design.

Please forgive my temporary memory freeze :)

Again, I've just gotten started on the conversion, and do plan on removing
all table tags.

Thanks very much for the quick response, and my apologies for the post,
but sometimes it's the simple rules you forget.

Warm regards,
Mario

 Hey Mario,

 IE Doesnt understand margin: auto

 You need to give the parent container text-align: center - then in the
  child (#container) have: text-align: left to fix the centered text.

 Simply add this to your body {} CSS:
 text-align: center;

 Because you already have: text-align: justify - there wont be any other
 problems :)
 aww and since your table is centered, that causes no problems either!

 :)

 Cheers


 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

G'day Mates,

I've persuaded a client to convert their small web site to standards,
 and I'm in the process of removing tables, and using CSS to control the
 layout and design.

My problem is the main content area on the homepage is left justified
 in IE, but center aligned in FF and Opera, which is correct. The
 following is a snippet from my CSS file, which controls the main
 content area:

#container
{position: relative;
 width: 760px;
 margin: 15px auto;
 font: 12px verdana, helvetica, arial, sans-serif;
 text-align: justify;
 line-height: 16pt;
 color: #000;
 padding: 10px;}

I want it to center align in IE too therefore what am I doing wrong?
 Here's the URL for the test file:
 http://www.waltermortgage.com/index1.stm

Any advice is always appreciated!

Respectfully requested,
Mario S. Cisneros



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 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
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 --
 
 Chris Stratford
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.neester.com
 

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Re: [WSG] Main Content won't Center Align in IE

2005-03-31 Thread Lennart Fylling
On Apr 1, 2005 3:58 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My problem is the main content area on the homepage is left
justified in IE, but center aligned in FF and Opera, which is
correct. The following is a snippet from my CSS file, which controls
the main content area: 

#container
{position: relative;
 width: 760px;
 margin: 15px auto;
 font: 12px verdana, helvetica, arial, sans-serif;
 text-align: justify;
 line-height: 16pt;
 color: #000;
 padding: 10px;}
body {
  text-align: center;
}
#container {
 margin: 15px auto;
 text-align: justify; /* or text-align left */
}
margin: auto does'nt work in IE.
--
Mvh/Regards
Lennart Fylling
http://lennart-fylling.com
web design  consultancy
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Re: [WSG] Any Safari 1.0 users out there?

2005-03-31 Thread Will Jensen
I have Safari 1.2.4 (v125.12) with OS-X version 10.3.8 - Your page is fine.

I know an earlier version of Safari had problems with some websites that used Javascript or some CGI scripts for user/password logins. But even that has gone away after the latest OS-X update.

Your 'disappeared' user may been having problems as well with a 'Speed download' event using Safari. I still get that - and did on your site when I downloaded the StyleMaster 4.0 update. Had to switch to Firefox to get around the problem.

Will Jensen
Moscow, Russia
[EMAIL PROTECTED]