Re: [WSG] Site review

[Neerav]

Looks nice, wish I could afford it :-)
The only 2 small problems I see are caused by the standard text size 
being too small, so I choose "medium" size text (in Firefox 1.0 Win 2000 
1024x768) and:

1. "Making your African Dreams a Reality!" is overlapped by "Lodges & 
Hotels"

2. "Terms & Conditions" and "Office Information" overlap each other
--
Neerav Bhatt
http://www.bhatt.id.au
Web Development & IT consultancy
http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts
http://www.bhatt.id.au/photos/
http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav
Jacobus van Niekerk wrote:
Hi all,
We have recently launched http://www.getawayafrica.com/, your comments are
welcome. But would like to know more about if you have any problems with the
site.
Just a note,  the client is still inputting content.
Kind Regards
Jacobus van Niekerk
Creative Consultant

web: http://www.catics.com/  |  http://www.freelancecontractors.com
tel: + 27 21 982 7805
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[WSG] Opinions about contact form please

[Neerav]

Any opinions about my contact form at 
http://www.bhatt.id.au/contactus.php are appreciated

AFAIK it displays fine in all browsers and even with css off
--
Neerav Bhatt
http://www.bhatt.id.au
Web Development & IT consultancy
http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts
http://www.bhatt.id.au/photos/
http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav
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[WSG] Auckland WSG?

[Williams, Cara]

Title: Auckland WSG?





Hi Everyone,


I'm moving to Auckland in June, and want to know if a WSG has kicked off there yet? I'd be interested in getting together with other webbys when I move there, away from my little home town in North Queensland. :(

So whoever is from Auckland could you holler my way ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) and I'll probably pick your brains about the job opportunities over there too.

Cheers,


Cara Williams
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
WEB OFFICER
CQ TAFE Mackay Campus
web www.cqtafe.com
email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
phone (07) 4940 3206
fax (07) 4940 3355 






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[WSG] Site review

[Jacobus van Niekerk]

Hi all,

We have recently launched http://www.getawayafrica.com/, your comments are
welcome. But would like to know more about if you have any problems with the
site.

Just a note,  the client is still inputting content.

Kind Regards
Jacobus van Niekerk

Creative Consultant


web: http://www.catics.com/  |  http://www.freelancecontractors.com
tel: + 27 21 982 7805


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Re: [WSG] Styling Forms

[standards]

Good evening mates,

First, thanks to all for the excellent advice and direction!

I was successful in creating a table less form, albeit simple, that
renders perfectly in IE6 (hard to believe), and damn good in FF1 and
Opera7.4.

If interested, the page is located at the following URL:
http://www.waltermortgage.com/contactus.stm

Both the XHTML (transitional) and CSS validate with no errors or warnings
found! This particular client who is extremely computer literate
completely embraced the conversion to a standards-based site, and I wanted
it right.

Although I’ve been designing for 7+ years and working with standards for
15 months I always consider my cup half-full therefore please do not
hesitate to let me know if I missed something.

Here's the CSS if interested:

#contactform
{width: 645px;
 font: 12px verdana, helvetica, arial, sans-serif;
 color: #000;
 margin: 5% 0 2% 7.5%;}

#contactform fieldset
{border: 1px solid #090;
 padding: 0 15px;}

#contactform legend
{font: bold 14px arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
  color: #fff;
  background: #009900;
  border: 1px solid #ccc;
  border-bottom-color: #666;
  border-right-color: #666;
  margin-bottom: 10px;
  padding: 4px 8px;}

#contactform p
{clear: left;
 margin: 0;
 padding: 5px 0 10px 0;
 font-weight: bold;}

#contactform p label
{float: left;
 width: 30%;
 font-weight: bold;}

.input
{background: #E8F2D7;}

.btn
{color: #fff;
 background: #009900;
 border: 1px solid #ccc;
 border-bottom-color: #666;
 border-right-color: #666;
 margin-bottom: 5px;}

Very appreciatively yours,
Mario



> G'day folks
>
> Firstly, apologies to Chris for not noticing that he'd already referred
> Mario to Cameron's article
>
> Secondly, Drew's points:
>
>  > It may make styling easier but incorporating form controls in labels
> has a
>  > different meaning than associating a label and a form control. For
> one thing, it isn't usable for those choosing a table layout for
> forms.
> Nor is
>  > it possible to use an incorporated form control with multiple labels.
>
> Both very good points. Obviously incorporating form controls and labels
> wouldn't make sense for a typical tabular form layout. On the other
> hand, I don't know why you'd want to use tables for layout when you
> could style the elements themselves
>
> I guess there could be some cases where you NEED multiple inputs to be
> associated with each other as tabular data - perhaps an editable data
> grid or the like? In which case, not being able to assign multiple
> labels to each input would also be an issue
>
> I don't see standard web forms (ie detail-gathering for shopping,
> membership registration, feedback etc) as requiring a table structure.
> Those sort of forms inevitably have simpler internal relationships
>
> Back to the multiple labels: Again, there are definitely scenarios (such
>  as the one above) where they could be put to good use. However, I've
> never actually done it. Every time I've come across a potential use for
> multiple labels, I've realised that my form simply needs better
> specification
>
> Obviously all of the above is completely subjective. Maybe I'm the only
> one who has never needed to do either of the things Drew mentioned. As
> he said:
>  > Use what you want, but use it correctly.
>
> For my money, incorporating form controls inside labels is my default
> construction for form HTML. Occasionally, I've needed to consider other
> options, but each time some creative CSS has produced the required
> layout and saved me changing the HTML
>
> Oh, and I still use the FOR attribute, regardless of implicit
> associations
>
> Cheers,
> Lachlan
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Re: [WSG] Styling Forms

[Lachlan Hardy]

G'day folks
Firstly, apologies to Chris for not noticing that he'd already referred 
Mario to Cameron's article

Secondly, Drew's points:
> It may make styling easier but incorporating form controls in labels 
has a
> different meaning than associating a label and a form control. For one
> thing, it isn't usable for those choosing a table layout for forms. 
Nor is
> it possible to use an incorporated form control with multiple labels.

Both very good points. Obviously incorporating form controls and labels 
wouldn't make sense for a typical tabular form layout. On the other 
hand, I don't know why you'd want to use tables for layout when you 
could style the elements themselves

I guess there could be some cases where you NEED multiple inputs to be 
associated with each other as tabular data - perhaps an editable data 
grid or the like? In which case, not being able to assign multiple 
labels to each input would also be an issue

I don't see standard web forms (ie detail-gathering for shopping, 
membership registration, feedback etc) as requiring a table structure. 
Those sort of forms inevitably have simpler internal relationships

Back to the multiple labels: Again, there are definitely scenarios (such 
as the one above) where they could be put to good use. However, I've 
never actually done it. Every time I've come across a potential use for 
multiple labels, I've realised that my form simply needs better 
specification

Obviously all of the above is completely subjective. Maybe I'm the only 
one who has never needed to do either of the things Drew mentioned. As 
he said:
> Use what you want, but use it correctly.

For my money, incorporating form controls inside labels is my default 
construction for form HTML. Occasionally, I've needed to consider other 
options, but each time some creative CSS has produced the required 
layout and saved me changing the HTML

Oh, and I still use the FOR attribute, regardless of implicit associations
Cheers,
Lachlan
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Re: [WSG] position:absolute in IE

[Thierry Koblentz]

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
> reached by different means. I don't have a "personal preference", so I
> look into all solutions, and pick and choose from ideas and
> inspiration when/as needed. Guess that's how it should work across
> the web.

The same here. There is a lot of good stuff out there, very inspirational...

> Nice, but if any of my solutions works in NN4, then it may only be
> because I've forgotten to hide my styles from it. I usually stop well
> short of supporting old browsers, simply because I don't want to.

I like supporting NN4, I know it doesn't make much sense (structural hacks
and bad semantic), but I really enjoy the challenge ;-)

> Now I only have to "list" some of my structural navigation and clean
> up a bit, since the styles are already in place. Next stage is to cut
> the amount of styles in half, without loosing anything. After that --
> nobody knows.

:-)

> CSS is fun :-)

A lot of fun...

FWIW: I thought it would be more appropriate to send you this email
off-list, but it bounced...

Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Son of Suckerfish and IE 6 (SP2)

[info]

Kornel Lesinski wrote:
It's well documented, just search MSDN on IE SP2 changes.
It's also said that adding:
<-- saved from url=(0014)about:internet -->
at the beginning of the file disables this behaviour.
I think you meant:

^ it was missing the exclamation point. :D
Once the pages are put up live, tho, that line should be removed right?
regards,
Z
                        Â
*Z u l e m a O r t i z*
w e b d e s i g n e r
email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
website : http://zoblue.com/
weblog : http://blog.zoblue.com/
browser : http://getfirefox.com/
                        Â
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Re: [WSG] position:absolute in IE

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Thierry Koblentz wrote:
Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:

Hi Georg, You're floating the right column and you have a few 
structural hacks for clearing in there. Did you try without floating 
it? I had much better result that way. Then, the *only* browser that 
needs a clearing element for the left column seems to be NN6.
Thierry,
I left it like that at that time, and have only picked ideas from it
since. It could sure do with a "shine-up" -- or I'll delete it
altogether. Most structural "clearers" can probably be deleted or
replaced with proper CSS.
I use the float-property to contain stuff and create strange
element-interactions, and I'm often "overdoing" it:

Those pages were experimental, but I've kept floats as a major
problem-solver across my site.
Solutions like yours acts as reminders that almost every goal can be
reached by different means. I don't have a "personal preference", so I
look into all solutions, and pick and choose from ideas and inspiration
when/as needed. Guess that's how it should work across the web.
Browser-support shouldn't be a problem with either, as long as the 
old browsers are left out.
The solution I've posted works in NN4 :-)
Nice, but if any of my solutions works in NN4, then it may only be
because I've forgotten to hide my styles from it. I usually stop well
short of supporting old browsers, simply because I don't want to.
See: 
...btw: that's a 3-column structure overloaded with style-hooks and
styled as a simple 2-column. That means a couple of KB more structural
code than there has to be, and I only have to add content and change
styles when I want "something else". Guess I'm lazy. ;-)
Now I only have to "list" some of my structural navigation and clean up
a bit, since the styles are already in place. Next stage is to cut the
amount of styles in half, without loosing anything. After that -- nobody
knows.
Sometimes, when I haven't got anything better to do, I may play with
styles in an old browser. Not much of that will ever arrive on the web
though.
CSS is fun :-)
regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [WSG] How exactly can I get pixel perfect in IE?

[Paul Novitski]

At 12:29 PM 4/5/2005, tee wrote:
I have a one pixel in padding-bottom in the  Everything looks so perfect
in FF and Safari, but in IE (PC & Mac) , it's something like 3 or 4 pixel.
It messes up my menu.
At 12:42 PM 4/5/2005, Thierry Koblentz wrote:
In the markup, do not leave whitespace between the list items

Instead of this:

item
item
item

try this:
itemitemitem
This markup style leaves one list item per row to ease human readability, 
but effectively eliminates all white-space.

Paul  

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Re: [WSG] How exactly can I get pixel perfect in IE?

[Thierry Koblentz]

tee wrote:
> Hi, Been wanting to find a solution  but it's sort of something not
> critical until I came up with this menu
> 
> http://www.lotusseeds.com/tryagain_michael.html
> Any idea?

In the markup, do not leave whitespace between the list items

HTH,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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[WSG] How exactly can I get pixel perfect in IE?

[tee]

Hi, Been wanting to find a solution  but it's sort of something not critical
until I came up with this menu

http://www.lotusseeds.com/tryagain_michael.html

I have a one pixel in padding-bottom in the  Everything looks so perfect
in FF and Safari, but in IE (PC & Mac) , it's something like 3 or 4 pixel.
It messes up my menu.

I looked up the IE bugs page from position is everything, but couldn't find
something that is similar to this symptom.

Any idea?

tee

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Re: [WSG] ID conflicts

[Alan Trick]

tee wrote:
Yes Sir!
And thanks million for the fix. Came up a quick copy and paste test page. It
works beautifully. Will study  your code thoroughly lately tonight to make
sure I understand everything.
http://www.lotusseeds.com/tryagain_michael.html
Looks nice,
Maybe you've already thought of this, but the list is useless without 
css support. I'd suggest putting list item name in the list 
items and then do something like

|li a span {display:none}|
Good Luck
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Re: [WSG] css expresions? todo : not todo

[Alan Trick]

David Laakso wrote:

  One useful example I found would be something
like this:  
http://blogs.clearscreen.com/migs/archive/2004/12/23/676.aspx

  
(could not locate remote server)
  

Funny, it works well for me?  Anyways, it's just a nice article on wo
to make use of css selectors in IE.

for example: input{color:_expression_(this.type=="button"?'red':'black');}
for  input[type="button"]{color:
red;}.

Alan Trick

Re: [WSG] ID conflicts

[tee]

> Hi,
> 
> Then why are you still using the same id for both your 's and your
> 's in #siteOption ul? If you know this is a no no, then the first
> thing you should do is fix it. You don't *have* to use a class and in
> this case a class makes less sense (to me at least) than a unique id.
> 
Well! What can I say? For a not-so-bright student, I learn one thing and
lost the other at the same time:) I knew ID  can only use once but as soon
as I decided to add set current indicator I forgot that it creates conflict
to my button ID, not to mention completely forgotten to test my page again
(because it was OK!). Sounds familiar?

THANKS FOR REMINDING
>> 
>> This actually is the menu for English page. I hide it in my Chinese page and
>> will eventually remove it. The problem I am facing now has nothing to do
>> with this navlist.
> 
> It doesn't matter if you hide it... it's still in the document and it
> still has a conflict with the other navigation's id's. Take it out,
> rework the id's so they are unique to the page, rework your CSS to style
> the nav that you *will* use, retest, revalidate, and see if that clears
> up the problem...
Yes Sir!

And thanks million for the fix. Came up a quick copy and paste test page. It
works beautifully. Will study  your code thoroughly lately tonight to make
sure I understand everything.

http://www.lotusseeds.com/tryagain_michael.html


tee

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Re: [WSG] css expresions? todo : not todo

[David Laakso]

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 12:23:31 -0400, Alan Trick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:
What do you guys think of useing css expressions to mimic  
standards-compliant behavior. (hidden, of course, from the good browsers)
If you mean *ie expressions,* they work out well for me.
One useful example I found would be something like this:   
http://blogs.clearscreen.com/migs/archive/2004/12/23/676.aspx
(could not locate remote server)
Would using them allot cause the browser to slow down?
I don't know about you, but even if that is true, I'd probably consider it  
the least of my problems.
-Alan Trick
Best,
David
--
de gustibus non est disputandum
http://www.dlaakso.com/
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Re: [WSG] ID conflicts

[Michael Wilson]

tee wrote:
Yes, I fully aware that ID can only apply one and one ONLY :)
I have to say I didn¹t' think ahead when making the menu. Having the button
set to ID was fine and passed the flying colors with validator. The issue
arise once I decided to have the 'current page' indicator. I did try to
change button ID to class, set the conflict ID to different name, but no
matter what I do, either my button disappears or the indicator won't work.
Hi,
Then why are you still using the same id for both your 's and your 
's in #siteOption ul? If you know this is a no no, then the first 
thing you should do is fix it. You don't *have* to use a class and in 
this case a class makes less sense (to me at least) than a unique id.

In one instance you have (which is done correctly btw):


  http://www.lotusseeds.com";...

This actually is the menu for English page. I hide it in my Chinese page and
will eventually remove it. The problem I am facing now has nothing to do
with this navlist.
It doesn't matter if you hide it... it's still in the document and it 
still has a conflict with the other navigation's id's. Take it out, 
rework the id's so they are unique to the page, rework your CSS to style 
the nav that you *will* use, retest, revalidate, and see if that clears 
up the problem...

Set your nav ul up like this:

  


 

 
 


  



And your CSS like this (or similar depending on your specificity needs):

/* vertical  menu */
#siteOption #homeLink {
background: url(images/bigmenu/big5_home.jpg) no-repeat;
height: 28px; width: 150px;
}
#siteOption #projectsLink {
background: url(images/bigmenu/big5_pro.jpg) no-repeat;
height: 28px; width: 150px;
}
#siteOption li a#servicesLink {
background: url(images/bigmenu/big5-srvs.jpg) no-repeat;
height: 28px; width: 150px;
}
#siteOption #aboutLink {
background: url(images/bigmenu/big5_about.jpg) no-repeat;
height: 28px; width: 150px;
}
#siteOption #contactLink {
background: url(images/bigmenu/big5_contact.jpg) no-repeat;
height: 28px; width: 150px;
}
#siteOption #accessibilityLink {
background: url(images/bigmenu/big5_acs.jpg) no-repeat;
height: 28px; width: 150px;
}
#siteOption #big5Link {
background: url(images/bigmenu/big5_simp.jpg) no-repeat;
height: 28px; width: 150px;
}
#siteOption #englishLink {
background: url(images/bigmenu/big5_eng.jpg) no-repeat;
height: 28px; width: 150px;
}

/* big5 menu hover & page ID*/

#siteOption #homeLink:hover,
#homepage #homeLink {
background: url(images/bigmenu/big5_homeH.jpg) no-repeat;
height: 28px; width: 150px;
}
#siteOption #projectsLink:hover,
#projectspage #siteOption #projectsLink {
background: url(images/bigmenu/big5_proH.jpg) no-repeat;
height: 28px; width: 150px;
}
#siteOption #servicesLink:hover,
#servicespage #siteOption #servicesLink {
background: url(images/bigmenu/big5-srvsH.jpg) no-repeat;
height: 28px; width: 150px;
}
#siteOption #aboutLink:hover,
#aboutpage #siteOption #aboutLink {
background: url(images/bigmenu/big5_aboutH.jpg) no-repeat;
height: 28px; width: 150px;
}
#siteOption #contactLink:hover,
#contactpage #siteOption #contactLink {
background: url(images/bigmenu/big5_contactH.jpg) no-repeat;
height: 28px; width: 150px;
}
#siteOption #accessibilityLink:hover,
#accessibilitypage #siteOption #accessibilityLink {
background: url(images/bigmenu/big5_acsH.jpg) no-repeat;
height: 28px; width: 150px;
}
#siteOption #big5Link:hover {
background: url(images/bigmenu/big5_simpH.jpg) no-repeat;
height: 28px; width: 150px;
}
#siteOption #englishLink:hover {
background: url(images/bigmenu/big5_engH.jpg) no-repeat;
height: 28px; width: 150px;
}
--
Best regards,
Michael Wilson
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Re: [WSG] Styling the tag in a

[Rob Mientjes]

On Apr 5, 2005 6:57 PM, Phil Baines <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have been finding that the amount of styling a legend will take is rather
> limited since the browser applies a certain level of style to it by itself.
> I was wondering if any of you guys might know a good resource regarding
> styling legends, and what is/is not possible. 

Give this a shot:
http://www.themaninblue.com/experiment/InForm/
-- 
Cheers,
Rob.

http://zooibaai.nl  |  http://digital-proof.org  |  http://chancecube.com
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[WSG] Styling the tag in a

[Phil Baines]

Hi Guys, Gals and gender non-specifics,

 

I’ve been wondering about Legends… Not the kind
that makes a really good fantasy story, or Rock Star Legends, but the legends
that go along with fieldsets. 

 

I have been finding that the amount of styling a legend
will take is rather limited since the browser applies a certain level of style
to it by itself. I was wondering if any of you guys might know a good resource
regarding styling legends, and what is/is not possible.

 

Thank you very much.

 

Best Regards,

Phil Baines

 





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[WSG] css expresions? todo : not todo

[Alan Trick]

What do you guys think of useing css expressions to mimic 
standards-compliant behavior. (hidden, of course, from the good browsers)
One useful example I found would be something like this:  
http://blogs.clearscreen.com/migs/archive/2004/12/23/676.aspx
Would using them allot cause the browser to slow down?
-Alan Trick
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Re: [WSG] ID conflicts

[tee]

Hi Michael and Martin. Thanks for the reply.
A quick note first before I go playing with my code again.

> The problem is the still the same, but perhaps you missed the answers
> earlier.
> 
> You can only use id="home" once on any page--one time and one time
> only--and never twice on the same page. This includes using the same id
> on different tags or elements; if you use it on a  tag you cannot
> use it on an  tag--even if it is in a separate  or other
> element. The same rule applies for all id's--each one must be different
> e.g unique, not the same,... the only one of it's kind.
Yes, I fully aware that ID can only apply one and one ONLY :)
I have to say I didn¹t' think ahead when making the menu. Having the button
set to ID was fine and passed the flying colors with validator. The issue
arise once I decided to have the 'current page' indicator. I did try to
change button ID to class, set the conflict ID to different name, but no
matter what I do, either my button disappears or the indicator won't work.
> In one instance you have (which is done correctly btw):
> 
> 
>  
>http://www.lotusseeds.com";...

This actually is the menu for English page. I hide it in my Chinese page and
will eventually remove it. The problem I am facing now has nothing to do
with this navlist.

tee

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Re: [WSG] ID conflicts

[Michael Wilson]

tee wrote:
This is the page I'd working on now. The body and the menu buttons are in id
so it works but doesn't pass the validation of course.
http://www.lotusseeds.com/big5.htm

<.div id="siteOption">

   


Hi,
The problem is the still the same, but perhaps you missed the answers 
earlier.

You can only use id="home" once on any page--one time and one time 
only--and never twice on the same page. This includes using the same id 
on different tags or elements; if you use it on a  tag you cannot 
use it on an  tag--even if it is in a separate  or other 
element. The same rule applies for all id's--each one must be different 
e.g unique, not the same,... the only one of it's kind.

In one instance you have (which is done correctly btw):

  
http://www.lotusseeds.com";...
In another you have:

  

The conflict is that you have 2 's (the  in navlist and the li 
in #siteOption) and 1  (in #siteOption) all using the same id. To 
make this work you will need to give each  and each  a unique or 
different id or you simplify your specificity to use the id's already 
available to you--you don't have to give every element an id.

For example you could give each a unique id like so:

  
http://www.lotusseeds.com";...

  

Then you can style  based on unique id like so:
#sohome {
rules
}
And the :
#soLink {
rules
}
OR you could simplify your specificity like so:
To style the  within  you could use:
#siteOption li {
rules
}
To style the  within  you could use:
#siteOption li a {
rules
}
Regardless of the approach you choose, you cannot give any id to more 
than one element.

The Validator is a great tool for spotting these types of errors, so use 
it to identify where you have used an id more than once... there are 
allot of instances to correct.

--
Best regards,
Michael Wilson
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RE: [WSG] Styling Forms

[Trusz, Andrew]

 

  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony 
  TimberlakeSent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 8:59 AMTo: 
  wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] Styling 
  Forms
  
  I think that styling forms is very nice addon to any site.  Who 
  wants to look at a dull white area on a black site?  Not 
  me... ==
   
  Great, style 
  away; keeping in mind Jan's caution about non-major browser renderings. 
  Styling has nothing to do with the specs cited. Incorporating the 
  control or just associating it with a 
  label has meaningful/semantic consequences which are completely 
  unrelated to style. The point was to use label correctly.
   
  drew
   
   

Re: [WSG] position:absolute in IE

[Thierry Koblentz]

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
> Yes, that's another variant that'll work just fine. I made one based on
> the same idea back in may/june 2004, but Gecko-browsers wasn't
> "clearing" too well then:
> 

Hi Georg,
You're floating the right column and you have a few structural hacks for
clearing in there.
Did you try without floating it? I had much better result that way. Then,
the *only* browser that needs a clearing element for the left column seems
to be NN6.

> Browser-support shouldn't be a problem with either, as long as the old
> browsers are left out.

The solution I've posted works in NN4 :-)

Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re[2]: [WSG] ID conflicts

[Martin Heiden]

Tee,

Am Dienstag, 5. April 2005 um 15:47:49 haben Sie geschrieben:


t> This is the page I'd working on now. The body and the menu buttons are in id
t> so it works but doesn't pass the validation of course.
t> http://www.lotusseeds.com/big5.htm

t> <.div id="siteOption">
t> 
t>>
t> 
t> 

t> My code:
t> #siteOption li a#home {
t> #siteOption li a#home:hover {
t> body#homepage li#home a {

Try to adress your links by using the containers. Give the  a
class and discard the ids from the s.

Then you can set css properties by selectors like:

body#homepage div#siteOption li.home a
body#homepage div#navlist li.home a

Try to put all containers in your css-selectors so it is much easier
to identify them in the source code.

If you'd need the ids for accessing elements via javascript, you could
give certain elements a prefix like: li-home, a-home

But in your case you should just change to classes and use more
specific selectors.

Martin.



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Re: [WSG] Son of Suckerfish and IE 6 (SP2)

[Kornel Lesinski]

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 15:03:03 +0100, Alan Trick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:

Yes, I've encountered that as well.  I think It's interesting that it  
blocks javascript on your own computer, but will gleefully accept it  
(and activeX objects and whatnot) from the internet (because we all know  
who how safe the internet is).  I guess it's just one of those  
'undocumented features'.
It's well documented, just search MSDN on IE SP2 changes.
It's also said that adding:
<-- saved from url=(0014)about:internet -->
at the beginning of the file disables this behaviour.
--
regards, Kornel Lesiński
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OT: Re: [WSG] Son of Suckerfish and IE 6 (SP2)

[Jan Brasna]

(and activeX objects and whatnot) from the internet (because we all know 
who how safe the internet is).  I guess it's just one of those 
'undocumented features'.
I think it's intended as a security fix for all those *script mail 
viruses (iloveyou etc.)

The sad point is that the only solution for PNG transparency (filters) 
also stops working on local :(

--
Jan Brasna aka JohnyB :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com
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Re: [WSG] Son of Suckerfish and IE 6 (SP2)

[Alan Trick]

Yes, I've encountered that as well.  I think It's interesting that it 
blocks javascript on your own computer, but will gleefully accept it 
(and activeX objects and whatnot) from the internet (because we all know 
who how safe the internet is).  I guess it's just one of those 
'undocumented features'.

Jan Brasna wrote:
I notice that IE6 with service pack 2 installed
initially blocks the JavaScript that makes the li hover sections drop
It's only when browsing local files.
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Re: [WSG] ID conflicts

[tee]

I thought I solved the problem before going to bed yesterday, by changing
the id to class. This morning I checked, my  'persistent page indicator' or
whatever you call it, doesn't work anymore. I have spent last 3 hours trying
to find a way out to no avail. All tutorials and references regardless this
technique seemed clear to me but I still can't get it right.
A big puzzle I am missing somewhere?

99% of the time I like to solve the puzzle myself; I guess this is the one
percent that I call it quit when my brain no long can function the way I
like it to be (sigh!)

This is the page I'd working on now. The body and the menu buttons are in id
so it works but doesn't pass the validation of course.
http://www.lotusseeds.com/big5.htm

<.div id="siteOption">

   



My code:
#siteOption li a#home {
background: url(images/bigmenu/big5_home.jpg) no-repeat;
height: 28px; width: 150px;
}
#siteOption li a#home:hover {
background: url(images/bigmenu/big5_homeH.jpg) no-repeat;
height: 28px; width: 150px;
}
body#homepage li#home a {
background: url(images/bigmenu/big5_homeH.jpg) no-repeat;
height: 28px; width: 150px;
}

What/where exactly should I change the id to class from above three?


tee


> From: diona kidd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 23:38:09 -0400
> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> Subject: Re: [WSG] ID conflicts
> 
> tee, 
> 
> your english is great. even those of us that grew up on the language
> abuse it with regularity.
> 
> my only confusion comes from perhaps the 'persistent page indicator'.
> i'm not sure how this second definition is only triggered when a user
> visits the home page...irregardless, when the page loads, the css
> element definition loads and this is defining an element twice. this
> would be fine were it a 'class' element as opposed to an 'id' because a
> 'class' can be defined numerous times. however, an 'id' can only be
> defined once according to spec. here you're defining it twice.
> 
> try switching to 'class' instead to solve the issue.
> 
> diona
> 
> 
> On Mon, 2005-04-04 at 20:16 -0700, tee wrote:
>>> It looks like you're defining the same element twice, but in a different
>>> way and with a different background image. To me this makes sense why
>>> this would conflict.
>> 
>> There are 8 buttons in the menu and each button with unique ID because each
>> button is different.
>>  
>>> #siteOption li a#home { background: url(images/h_gb.gif) no-repeat; }
>>> 
>> This image is for the home button. But there are another 7 that have to
>> displayed within the same page as well.
>>> 
>>> body#homepage li#home a { background: url(images/hhover_gb.gif) no-
>>> repeat;  }
>> And this is for persistent page indicator, which is the same button as home
>> button hover class. So it will only trigger when viewer visits the 'home
>> page'. 
>> 
>> Does this make sense?  Sorry I know often time my English confuses people.
>> 
>> tee
>>> Which image are you trying to use for the bg of the href?
>>> 
>>> Diona
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, 2005-04-04 at 19:37 -0700, tee wrote:
 Hi, 
 
 I have a menu in my site that I use class ID for each link with different
 menu button. It was validated until I added body#ID for persistent page
 indicator. 
 
 Before  persisten page indicator:
 <.li>
 
 After page indicator:
  <.li id="home"> 
 
 If I remove the ID in the a href, my button disappears.
 
 Now my page no longer validated.
 
 http://www.lotusseeds.com/simplified.html
 http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.lotusseeds.com/simplified.html
 
 How can I solve this?
 
 Thanks!
 
 tee
 
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>>> 
>>> **
>>> The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>>> 
>>> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>>> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
>>> **
>>> 
>> 
>> **
>> The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>> 
>>  See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>>  for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
>> **
>> 
> 
> **
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> 
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> **
> 

Re: [WSG] {Spam?} css type glich

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On 5 Apr 2005, at 10:05 pm, James Ellis wrote:
Hi
It would be better if you tested and developed with
Firefox/Safari/Opera rather than to the non-compliant browsers like
IE5 mac and NS6. Netscape 6 was a dud alpha release of Mozilla code
and was pretty quickly put to sleep. I believe it was the equivalent
of Mozilla 0.9.4 - the current version is 1.7.6
Once you get the code working in the compliant browsers you can tweak
for the non-compliant ones.
Additionally, you may also find that the fonts you have specified are
causing the problem. Try a more standard font-family to start off with
like
font-family:  verdana, tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans serif;
and see if the problem disappears
HTH
James
On Apr 4, 2005 12:14 PM, Kvnmcwebn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
hi everyone,

This is happening on ie5mac and netscape 6mac, havnt tested it on the 
pc
I was under the impression that Kvnmcwebn is using  Mac OS 9.
The best browser available on that platform is Mac IE 5.
The most recent Mozilla build is the Wacom build (Mozilla 1.3.1), you 
can get from here


Philippe
---/---
Philippe Wittenbergh
now live : 
code | design | web projects : 
IE5 Mac bugs and oddities : 
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RE: [WSG] Styling Forms

[Mike Foskett]

I'm currently suggesting all input elements have a class to reflect the type.
So they can be controlled via CSS a little easier.
e.g.
  
  
  
  
etc.

Are there any associated issues that I've not considered?


regards


mike 2k:)2


 
 Mike Foskett 
 Web Standards, Accessibility & Testing Consultant
 Multimedia Publishing and Production 
 British Educational Communications and Technology Agency (Becta) 
 Milburn Hill Road, Science Park, Coventry CV4 7JJ 
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Tel:  02476 416994  Ext 3342 [Tuesday - Thursday]
 Fax: 02476 411410 
 www.becta.org.uk

 


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Re: [WSG] Styling Forms

[Jan Brasna]

I think that styling forms is very nice addon to any site.
And one thing more - you can't rely on it, you won't now how it is 
rendered on various platforms, nevertheless it might look weird, it 
might also be unusable etc. ...

If you style 'em, you have to be careful.
--
Jan Brasna aka JohnyB :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com
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Re: [WSG] Styling Forms

[Jan Brasna]

I think that styling forms is very nice addon to any site.
See  -- styling 
the form elements can make them look worse outside the major browsers.

--
Jan Brasna aka JohnyB :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com
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CLOSED Re: [WSG] Vision.To CMS Enterprise (XHTML/CSS)

[James Ellis]

Hi Femi

Sorry, this is not the list for product announcements. The WSG runs a
dedicated CMS list - you can can find and subscribe to it after
logging in at the WSG website.

Cheers
James

On Apr 5, 2005 3:11 AM, Vision.To Design <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
>  
> Hi 
> I have developed a new version of 
> CMS &Portal Solutions 
> XHTML / CSS compliant to W3C Recommendations and other standards
> (Except: Admin Part). 
> Your feedback is welcome. 
> ---
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Re: [WSG] Centering

[Ben Hamilton]

Paul wrote:
Hi hope this isn't too simple a question but what am I missing in 
trying to get the menu_table to center on this 
page...http://www.kinggeorgev.ca/test_1.php
 
Thanks,
Paul 
 
Paul Gauci
Director, Internet Development
m5i.com
t: 709.753.6227
f: 709.754.3990
m: 709.687.2617
 
#menu_table {
   position:relative;
   width:788px;
   border: solid 1px;
   height: 13px;
   margin:auto;   /* added line */
}
works in FF1.0.2
--
Ben Hamilton
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://dynamicwebhosting.com.au/
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Re: [WSG] {Spam?} css type glich

[James Ellis]

Hi 

It would be better if you tested and developed with
Firefox/Safari/Opera rather than to the non-compliant browsers like
IE5 mac and NS6. Netscape 6 was a dud alpha release of Mozilla code
and was pretty quickly put to sleep. I believe it was the equivalent
of Mozilla 0.9.4 - the current version is 1.7.6

Once you get the code working in the compliant browsers you can tweak
for the non-compliant ones.

Additionally, you may also find that the fonts you have specified are
causing the problem. Try a more standard font-family to start off with
like

font-family:  verdana, tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans serif;

and see if the problem disappears

HTH
James

On Apr 4, 2005 12:14 PM, Kvnmcwebn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> hi everyone,

 
> This is happening on ie5mac and netscape 6mac, havnt tested it on the pc
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Re: [WSG] Centering

[Vision.To Design]

Title: Message



You should use list property ...
se: http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/
 
regards
feha

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Paul 
  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 14:44
  Subject: [WSG] Centering
  
  Hi hope this isn't 
  too simple a question but what am I missing in trying to get the menu_table to 
  center on this page...http://www.kinggeorgev.ca/test_1.php
   
  Thanks,
  Paul 
   
  Paul Gauci
  Director, Internet 
  Development
  m5i.com
  t: 709.753.6227
  f: 709.754.3990
  m: 709.687.2617
   

Re: [WSG] Styling Forms

[Anthony Timberlake]

I think that styling forms is very nice addon to any site.  Who wants to look at a dull white area on a black site?  Not me...
On Apr 5, 2005 7:06 AM, Trusz, Andrew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] OnBehalf Of Lachlan HardySent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 1:52 AMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] Styling Forms[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:> Well, it seems that styling the actual form elements is the way to go,and  > certainly appears to be ideal for simple forms.I use FIELDSET, FORM etc as per other people's suggestions above, but mypersonal favourite is wrapping the relevant form field inside the LABELelement. Makes styling seriously easyAn invaluable reference is Cameron Adams's Accessible, Stylish Form Layout:http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2004/03/24/*It may make styling easier but incorporating form controls in labels has adifferent meaning than associating a label and a form control. For onething, it isn't usable for those choosing a table layout for forms. Nor isit possible to use an incorporated form control with multiple labels.This is what the html 4.01 specs have to say about the meaning of labels andtheir relationship to form controls:The LABEL element may be used to attach information to controls. Each LABELelement is associated with exactly one form control.The for attribute associates a label with another control explicitly: thevalue of the for attribute must be the same as the value of the id attributeof the associated control element. More than one LABEL may be associatedwith the same control by creating multiple references via the for attribute.This example creates a table that is used to align two text input controlsand their associated labels. Each label is associated explicitly with onetext input:            This example extends a previous example form to include LABEL elements.http://somesite.com/prog/adduser" method="post">                   Male    Female       To associate a label with another control implicitly, the control elementmust be within the contents of the LABEL element. In this case, the LABELmay only contain one control element. The label itself may be positionedbefore or after the associated control.In this example, we implicitly associate two labels with two text inputcontrols:  First Name  Last NameNote that this technique cannot be used when a table is being used forlayout, with the label in one cell and its associated control in anothercell.When a LABEL element receives focus, it passes the focus on to itsassociated control. See the section below on access keys for examples.Labels may be rendered by user agents in a number of ways (e.g., visually,read by speech synthesizers, etc.)http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html#edef-LABELUse what you want, but use it correctly.drew**The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list & getting help**-- Anthony TimberlakeHead Director at Spike Radiohttp://www.spikeradio.org

[WSG] Centering

[Paul]

Title: Message



Hi hope this isn't 
too simple a question but what am I missing in trying to get the menu_table to 
center on this page...http://www.kinggeorgev.ca/test_1.php
 
Thanks,
Paul 
 
Paul Gauci
Director, Internet 
Development
m5i.com
t: 709.753.6227
f: 709.754.3990
m: 709.687.2617
 

RE: [WSG] Styling Forms

[Trusz, Andrew]

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lachlan Hardy
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 1:52 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Styling Forms

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 > Well, it seems that styling the actual form elements is the way to go,
and  > certainly appears to be ideal for simple forms.

I use FIELDSET, FORM etc as per other people's suggestions above, but my
personal favourite is wrapping the relevant form field inside the LABEL
element. Makes styling seriously easy

An invaluable reference is Cameron Adams's Accessible, Stylish Form Layout: 
http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2004/03/24/
*

It may make styling easier but incorporating form controls in labels has a
different meaning than associating a label and a form control. For one
thing, it isn't usable for those choosing a table layout for forms. Nor is
it possible to use an incorporated form control with multiple labels. 

This is what the html 4.01 specs have to say about the meaning of labels and
their relationship to form controls:

The LABEL element may be used to attach information to controls. Each LABEL
element is associated with exactly one form control.

The for attribute associates a label with another control explicitly: the
value of the for attribute must be the same as the value of the id attribute
of the associated control element. More than one LABEL may be associated
with the same control by creating multiple references via the for attribute.

This example creates a table that is used to align two text input controls
and their associated labels. Each label is associated explicitly with one
text input:



  
First Name

  
Last Name




This example extends a previous example form to include LABEL elements.

 http://somesite.com/prog/adduser"; method="post">

First name: 
  
Last name: 
  
email: 
  
 Male
 Female
 

 

To associate a label with another control implicitly, the control element
must be within the contents of the LABEL element. In this case, the LABEL
may only contain one control element. The label itself may be positioned
before or after the associated control.

In this example, we implicitly associate two labels with two text input
controls:




   First Name
   


   
   Last Name




Note that this technique cannot be used when a table is being used for
layout, with the label in one cell and its associated control in another
cell.

When a LABEL element receives focus, it passes the focus on to its
associated control. See the section below on access keys for examples.

Labels may be rendered by user agents in a number of ways (e.g., visually,
read by speech synthesizers, etc.)

http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html#edef-LABEL


Use what you want, but use it correctly.

drew
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[WSG] Vision.To CMS Enterprise (XHTML/CSS)

[Vision.To Design]

Hi
I have developed a new version of 
CMS &Portal Solutions
XHTML / CSS compliant to W3C Recommendations and other standards(Except: Admin Part).
Your feedback is welcome.
 
 
regards---Vision.To 
DesignFemi Hasaniwww.vision.to  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  +46 736 009 
555Sweden / Suediwww.coder24.comwww.wowdev.com  
---