Re: [WSG] Align text vertically in a division
Rachel Radford wrote: Is there any other reliable way of mimicking the old-school valign for table layouts? I realy don't want to use hacky stuff or any javascript stuff cause already there is so much hacks just for IE!!! Unfortunately, no, there is no way without massive hacking. Bruno Fassino has discussed the problem, the technique is described here http://www.brunildo.org/test/img_center.html and the version for vertically centering a block is here http://www.brunildo.org/test/vertmiddle.html Sorry, can't provide a better alternative. Ingo -- http://www.satzansatz.de/css.html ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] IE min-width problem
http://www.svendtofte.com/code/max_width_in_ie/- is a good article on using IE expressionsto control text width. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Tania MorrisSent: Wednesday, 10 August 2005 4:20 p.m.To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: [WSG] IE min-width problem Hi Folks, I've been working on a site which has three columns which unfortunately need full height backgrounds, some have rounded corners and... well it's been tricky but it's all working ok... except that due to the fact that IE doesn't accept min-width, it becomes quick ugly in IE when the window is resized... You can look at the beta site at http://dev.papercutmedia.com/perthjazz/ The CSS isn't to messy, but the XHTML does contain a few "spare" divs to enable the various background pics to get the "look" right ( boy am I looking forward to CSS3 with multiple background images for single elements!) and I'm getting the feeling I've looked at it too long and am not seeingsomething obvious... Any pearls of wisdom that can be offered would be graciously recieved. Tania
[WSG] Flash and 100% height - retry and apologies
Firstly, not to excuse the format of my previous email, but I'm stuck with the Outlook Web Access mail client. Try as I might to get it to send text emails, this is as close as it gets. I apologise for any inconvenience it may have caused. I have to say it was dishearteningto see my request trashed before it was read, so I come to you all again humbled somewhat. Thanks to Russ, Martin and David for their responses. I have changed tact with my problem with the suggestions I received. I'm now trying an absolute layout and I think I'm closer, but IE is still nabbing me with it's insistence that the Flash application must be set to 100% of the viewport. Viewing this URL in Firefox https://demo.hpa.com.au/OLM/test/apps/ies/need_help3.htm gives me the result I need: 100px of space top and bottom of the "viewer app", 150px of space to the left of it. The viewer is snug up against the right of the window. Finally if the browser is resized, the spacing remains and the viewer app expands/contracts it's dimensions to fill the available area. This isn't the final layout intended, but is enough to figure the logic I require (I think!) IE maintains the spacing on the top, left and bottom of the app and keeps it snug to the right, but it calculates the dimension of the viewer to equal 100% of the viewport height. I hope it is not taboo, here is the relevant CSS and HTML: style type="text/css"!--body, html {height: 100%;width: 100%;margin: 0px;padding: 0px;background-color:#99;}#viewer{position:absolute;top: 100px;bottom: 100px;left: 150px;right: 0px;background-color:#339900;}#imageviewer{height: 100%;width: 100%;} --/style/headbody div id="viewer" object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="" id="imageviewer" param name="movie" value="../../flashviewer/ImageViewer.swf?imageurl=https://demo.hpa.com.au/OLM/test/testxml/test1.xml" / param name="quality" value="best" / param name="menu" value="false" / /object /div /body Thanks for your time, Brendan.
RE: [WSG] Newbie Questions: East-Asian Character Sets and Marking-up Poetry
Thanks for the link. Thankfully, this being Chinese poetry, indentation isn't a problem: Chinese poetry is frightfully regular, as in lines of precisely 4 characters (syllables) (with some abberations which may be attributed to its origins in folk poetry and song -- the syllables may have been sung swiftly to fit within one proper beat), 5 characters, and 7 characters; and no weird indentations like we encounter in English poetry. I haven't examined the entire corpus, so I may be missing some of the more esoteric forms, but that's my general observation of around 80 or so poems from varying periods. Certainly that's the types of poetry that I'm planning on writing about... I was more concerned with whether to use a blockquote, because this isn't my work: I'm quoting someone else's translations and the original is also not mine, they being written around 1400 years ago. I've decided, after some thought, that semantically a blockquote, to indicate that this is a quotation from The Book of Odes, or the 300 Tang Dynasty Poems, seems to work best. The dl version was just a bit of a thought, because it might allow me some flexibility if in the future I put up some examples of English poetry I like, but now I'm convinced that it isn't at all semantic. Also, how best to display the Chinese version without delivering odd garbage characters to people without Chinese fonts installed on their system. I'm leaning towards putting the pure English version on the blog entry, with a link to the Chinese version for those people who'd like to look at the original. Thanks again. Kwok Ting ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Sliced Image Dilema
Can anyone here please post urls to some reading regarding the use of sliced images in building a website vs using CSS instead. Kind of a "pros and cons" type of paper. Thanks Jeff D. ReidMIS DepartmentDavitt-Hanser Music CompanyCincinnati, OHhttp://www.bcrich.comhttp://www.kustom.comhttp://www.olpguitars.comOwnerROMDevCincinnati, OHhttp://www.romdev.comhttp://www.patandjeff.com"A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." -Mitch Ratliffe-
RE: [WSG] bi-lingual page?
Hi, This is stuff we're pretty much used to deal with on a daily basis, here in Belgium. We have 3 national languages : Dutch, German, and French. Not only do we do this on websites but also in regular software in which dynamic switching between languages should be possible, or printing in French while the interface is displayed in Dutch. Here you were talking about displaying the content simultaneously in Englisg and German. This is definitely easier to manage than dynamic language switching. The way I used to deal with this issue was to store all my content in a database and extract the text from one field or another (msg_fr, msg_de, or msg_en) based on the current language of the user. You can also achieve the same thing via external text files that you include in your main page (for example you have a page called mypage.php ... and this would include the content of mypage.php.de.txt if German is what you need or mypage.php.en.txt if English is required. The language of the user is usually stored in a cookie and you should apply a default language to a page. When you display the information, please mark your paragraphs with the appropriate lang attribute: either p xml:lang=de.../p (XHTML 1.1) or p lang=de (HTML 1.0). Please notice that your main page should be marked with a language attribute too : html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; xml:lang=en (XHTML 1.1) or html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; xml:lang=en lang=en (XHTML 1.0) Mark the paragraphs with their language attribute only if they differ from the default language of the page. You can easily decide to hide text in a certain language via CSS: *[lang=en] { display:none }. But this will NOT work with IE unfortunately. By using the lang attribute on your paragraphs, you will ease the pain of the search engines. If you want to implement dynamic language switching, you will have to implement a mechanism such as a link to a page that will update the cookie of the user: changelang.php?lang=en or changelang.php?lang=de. What thsi page does is very simple : it updates the cookie of the user and then gets back to the HTTP referrer (the page we're coming from so that it gets redisplayed). However, this can create some accessibility problems because it breaks the back sequence. Also, there may be some issues to solve with caching. Hope this helps Pat -Original Message- hi all this is the first time I've done anything like this but I'm wondering what it takes to display two languages (and therefore two charsets) on the same page? - English and German the content will be a side-by-side translation of each language thanx barry.b PS: no doubt I'll have more questions later but I'm starting from the display and working backwards to the content storage (ensuring the database can support unicode, etc) and then the content capture (a form in either English and German) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] bi-lingual page?
patboens You can easily decide to hide text in a certain language via CSS: *[lang=en] { display:none }. But this will NOT work with IE unfortunately. Although, when CSS is off (or when using older screen readers which do actually read out things hidden via display:none), the page will look funky. Patrick __ Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Flash and 100% height - retry and apologies
Brendan, Am Mittwoch, 10. August 2005 um 12:41:53 haben Sie geschrieben: I have changed tact with my problem with the suggestions I received. I'm now trying an absolute layout and I think I'm closer, but IE is still nabbing me with it's insistence that the Flash application must be set to 100% of the viewport. Calculate and assign the height - and if you need to the width too - of the container div using a expression and some JavaScript. Feed it to IE by using conditional comments. Martin. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] footer at bottom of page
I was hoping someone could look at this page http://www.wealthdevelopmentmortgage.com/Bruce/Company.htm and help me with getting the footer at the absolute bottom of the page. Right now, as I look at in in FF PC, there is some of the body which shows below it. The body is green and the footer is white. the CSS is at : http://www.wealthdevelopmentmortgage.com/Bruce/WDM.css thx! -- ::Bruce:: ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] footer at bottom of page
hey, i would try setting all body-margins explicit, so i mean the 0-margins too, to avoid the different browser-default-settings for the body-margin. maybe u'll have to set the top- bottom-margins for the main container too. /*global CSS for Wealth Development Mortgage*/body { margin: 2em 0 0 0; /* top right bottom left */ padding: 0; color: #333; font: 76%/1.4em san ... } :) bit 2005/8/10, Bruce Gilbert [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I was hoping someone could look at this pagehttp://www.wealthdevelopmentmortgage.com/Bruce/Company.htmand help me with getting the footer at the absolute bottom of the page. Right now, as I look at in in FF PC, there is some of the bodywhich shows below it. The body is green and the footer is white.the CSS is at : http://www.wealthdevelopmentmortgage.com/Bruce/WDM.cssthx!--::Bruce::**The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help** -- Software is like Sex - it's better when it's free ... (Linus Torvalds)
Re: [WSG] Sliced Image Dilema
Jeff D. Reid wrote: Can anyone here please post urls to some reading regarding the use of sliced images in building a website vs using CSS instead. Kind of a pros and cons type of paper. The pros are probably well covered in this http://www.alistapart.com/articles/sprites/ (although the markup there may need some additional work to make it nicely accessible, like proper text in those links). Only cons I can think of right now are the usual images off, CSS on or the lack of any visuals when CSS is off. -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Sliced Image Dilema
Jeff D. Reid wrote: Can anyone here please post urls to some reading regarding the use of sliced images in building a website vs using CSS instead. Kind of a pros and cons type of paper. I find your question a little confusing. The use of sliced images and CSS are not mutually exclusive. As a matter of fact, ImageReady has an option to create a layout for a sliced image using CSS. The use of sliced images is not common these days, because people have found other ways of creating layouts, but you can use sliced images with layouts very effectively using CSS for the image placement. What are you trying to do that would require you to use one or the other? Carl. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Sliced Image Dilema
Jeff D. Reid wrote: Can anyone here please post urls to some reading regarding the use of sliced images in building a website vs using CSS instead. Kind of a pros and cons type of paper. I'm not sure I understand your question. Is it about tables used to hold sliced images, like some Graphics program create? Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Sliced Image Dilema
I think your question should be rephrazed a little table based sliced image html (as seen in david seaguls book Killer Websites) Vs Webstandard 'Tableless' CSS design table based sliced image layout pros easy to produce consistant layout may even use images instead of text (at the expense of accessibilty) cons (too many to list) inaccessiable large file sizes (hence longer to download, greater cost of ownership etc) ... Webstandard 'Tableless' CSS design pros (too many to list) seach engines crawl the site and index information more appropriately greater file economy (elements can be reused, many elements can be removed) seperation of style and content (makes managing the site really simple. Really, really simple) present the same page of mark up to various devices (eg Desktops, handhelds, phones, PDA) ... cons older defunked browsers on anceint machines display unformatted information (even this has its advantages) requires a little more attension in production stages (this depend on who elaborate the design is) atb Sam Jeff D. Reid wrote: Can anyone here please post urls to some reading regarding the use of sliced images in building a website vs using CSS instead. Kind of a "pros and cons" type of paper. Thanks Jeff D. Reid MIS Department Davitt-Hanser Music Company Cincinnati, OH http://www.bcrich.com http://www.kustom.com http://www.olpguitars.com Owner ROMDev Cincinnati, OH http://www.romdev.com http://www.patandjeff.com "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." -Mitch Ratliffe-
[WSG] No Preload Rollover Issue
Hi, At the following url: (http://ckimedia.com/bushido_fall/index.htm) there's trouble with the no-preloader rollovers, the a state is fine except hiding the over state, also having issues getting the a:hover state into the same position. I've looked over several tutorials, but am still stuck at this point. Thanks in advance, C ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] No Preload Rollover Issue
They don't line-up in safari 2.0 either I having issues with hiding the :hover state. On Aug 10, 2005, at 1:58 PM, Kenny Graham wrote: Not sure exactly what you're wanting it to do. If you want it to hide the images until you move the mouse over them, then it works in decent browsers, but they don't line up in IE. Is that the problem you're talking about? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] footer at bottom of page
http://solardreamstudios.com/learn/css/footerstick/ On 11 Aug 2005, at 3:22 AM, Bruce Gilbert wrote: help me with getting the footer at the absolute bottom of the page. kind regards Terrence Wood. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] No Preload Rollover Issue[solved]
Hi, Step away for lunch, upon returning, this solution seems to have worked, is this a cross-platform solution? C On Aug 10, 2005, at 2:14 PM, Chris Kennon wrote: They don't line-up in safari 2.0 either I having issues with hiding the :hover state. On Aug 10, 2005, at 1:58 PM, Kenny Graham wrote: Not sure exactly what you're wanting it to do. If you want it to hide the images until you move the mouse over them, then it works in decent browsers, but they don't line up in IE. Is that the problem you're talking about? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Accessibility articles for those interested
Hi folks, As an information professional I read a lot of for librarians publications. The current issue of Ariadne (http://www.ariadne.ac.uk/) has several articles that might be of interest to some in this group: Involving Users in the Development of a Web Accessibility Tool http://www.ariadne.ac.uk/issue44/craven/ how the EC-funded European Internet Accessibility Observatory Project is involving users in the development of a Web accessibility checking and monitoring tool. Web Accessibility Revealed: The Museums, Libraries and Archives Council Audit http://www.ariadne.ac.uk/issue44/petrie-weisen/ ... a comprehensive Web accessibility audit involving extensive user testing as well as automatic testing of Web sites. Towards a Pragmatic Framework for Accessible e-Learning http://www.ariadne.ac.uk/issue44/phipps/ ...while recognising the importance of accessibility in e-learning resources, query the universal applicability of the Web Accessibility Initiative's guidelines and describe a pragmatic framework which provides a broader context for their use. Evaluating Web Sites for Accessibility with Firefox http://www.ariadne.ac.uk/issue44/lauke/ Patrick Lauke outlines how Mozilla Firefox can be used in conjunction with the Web Developer Toolbar to carry out a preliminary accessibility review. Apologies to those who already know of this publication or these articles, but for those who don't or are not involved in library land-type publications, it might be a useful resource to check sometimes. Regards, sunny. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Sliced Image Dilema
Yes this is what I was searching for in a nutshell. I have been researching pros and cons of using an image created for print as a web page. I am really striving towards revamping all our brand sites to meet web standards and accessibility issues. Biggest hurdle is working with the files I am sent to build from and to try and make something similar in style sheets. Thanks to all who replied... Jeff - Original Message - From: sam sherlock To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Sliced Image Dilema I think your question should be rephrazed a littletable based sliced image html (as seen in david seaguls book Killer Websites)VsWebstandard 'Tableless' CSS designtable based sliced image layoutpros easy to produce consistant layout may even use images instead of text (at the expense of accessibilty)cons (too many to list) inaccessiable large file sizes (hence longer to download, greater cost of ownership etc) ...Webstandard 'Tableless' CSS design pros (too many to list) seach engines crawl the site and index information more appropriately greater file economy (elements can be reused, many elements can be removed) seperation of style and content (makes managing the site really simple. Really, really simple) present the same page of mark up to various devices (eg Desktops, handhelds, phones, PDA) ...cons older defunked browsers on anceint machines display unformatted information (even this has its advantages) requires a little more attension in production stages (this depend on who elaborate the design is)atb SamJeff D. Reid wrote: Can anyone here please post urls to some reading regarding the use of sliced images in building a website vs using CSS instead. Kind of a "pros and cons" type of paper. Thanks Jeff D. Reid MIS Department Davitt-Hanser Music Company Cincinnati, OH http://www.bcrich.com http://www.kustom.com http://www.olpguitars.com Owner ROMDev Cincinnati, OH http://www.romdev.com http://www.patandjeff.com "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." -Mitch Ratliffe-
[WSG] Sydney WSG Meeting - Now Tuesday 30 August
Rather than organise two events in a week and have Lisa Herrod do her presentation twice, the September Sydney WSG meeting has been combined with the Web Essentials Free Briefing so it is now to be held on TUESDAY 30 August in the theatre at the Museum. Also note the earlier start time of 6:00pm for 6:30pm. Please see http://webstandardsgroup.org/go/event37.cfm The upside is that there will be more in the presentations with the addition of the ever popular David Woodbridge and Robert Spriggs of the Royal Blind Society, the significantly better food and drinks are free, and you have a chance to win a free ticket to WE05! RSVP is essential - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Regards, Peter Firminger ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE min-width problem
On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 12:20:27 +0800, Tania Morris wrote: ... except that due to the fact that IE doesn't accept min-width, it becomes quick ugly in IE when the window is resized... Tania, you may also like to look at Stu Nicholls's CSS-only method of enforcing min-width. It seems to be cross-browser, with versions for both quirks and standards mode: http://www.stunicholls.myby.co.uk/boxes/minwidth.html Cordially, David -- David Hucklesby, on 8/10/2005 http://www.hucklesby.com/ -- ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **