RE: [WSG] Spacing Issue
On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 11:24:13 +1000, Webmaster wrote: Are we not being a bit classist? (Coming in a little late here, guys - sorry!) Classist not to offer constructive help for a non-standards based implementation? I don't think so, for two main reasons: 1. The list is the web standards group, so a page that doesn't rely on standards is basically off topic. 2. Table-driven development methods involve a bunch of hacks [1] that people here either have never learnt (they joined the field recently) or are very rusty on (haven't used those techniques in years, oh I'm showing my age! ;)). So, the question is either off-topic, or not within our skill base. Either way, the OP won't get an answer. :( IMHO Lea ~ glad to hear you were able to improve the standards compliance within your constraints, Jeff! You'll get there! :) [1] no, thats not elitist either - standards-based methods generally require hacks too ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] vertical menu with background on IE5 :(
setiawan77th wrote: I was learning on these CSS, to have my vertical menu. It's work o IE6 and Mozzila. But some how it look weird in IE5 and IE5.5 Can someone be so kind helping me to my problem? http://embun.net http://embun.net/style/style_black.css Thanks setiawan Dunno Setiawan, but the fact that the software is unable to find the doctype maybe a place to start? http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1uri=http%3A//embun.net/ And, a few corrections for the css file are needed. (Tidy Online http://infohound.net/tidy/ is showing 158 warnings, and 1 error on your html file). It may be a good idea to straighten that stuff out, before tacking whatever may be necessary for 5 5.5. Regards, David Laakso -- David Laakso http://www.dlaakso.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Building a tree/table
I am trying to create a combined tree/table view using web standards.
If you don't know what a tree/table is take a look at the following example.
http://books.mozdev.org/screenshots/moz_0904.gif
Two parts to this question...
1) how should the content be structured?
2) how would the styling work?
I have tried two different structures.
(I will use span's and div's so as not to beg the solution.)
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN
http://.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd;
html
head
style
.tree {
border: 1em solid green;
}
.item {
border: 1em solid blue;
margin-left: 2em;
}
span {
border: 1em solid yellow;
}
/style
/head
body
div class=tree
div class=item
span class=nameassembly-1/span
span class=age5/span
span class=weight7/span
div class=item
span class=namesub-assembly-1-1/span
span class=age3/span
span class=weight4/span
div class=item
span class=namecomponent-1-1-1/span
span class=age1/span
span class=weight2/span
/div
/div
div class=item
span class=namesub-assembly-1-2/span
span class=age9/span
span class=weight2/span
/div
/div
div class=item
span class=nameassembly-2/span
span class=age9/span
span class=weight2/span
/div
/div
/body
/html
The idea is that the hierarchy is what is important and the attributes
are secondary.
The problem I am having is in getting the attributes to line up in columns.
(I'd also like to know why the span's borders overlay their parent
div's border.)
All except for the outline attribute (i.e. .name) which should be indented.
Presently, I am using a table and setting the padding on the outline attribute
based on its indent level (yuk!).
peace
assembly-1
5
7
sub-assembly-1-1
3
4
component-1-1-1
1
2
sub-assembly-1-2
9
2
assembly-2
9
2
Re: [WSG] Reason for leaving
The talk here is really dull, I agree Brian. On 8/12/05, Brian Grimmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This forum has unfortunately degraded from a useful resource in regards to properly writing code for use by those with disabilities to just another HTML help group... If you need help with tables, CSS, Divs or IE Hacks, there are a million and one such sites dedicated to just that - no need for another that was above the rest by be specific to Web Standards. Thanks for the good times and good luck in the future. Sincerely, Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy 918 N. Prescott St., Portland, OR 97217 971-244-8367 (main) - 503-720-2073 (mobile) 971-244-8367 (fax) - 503-961-7809 (fax2) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.thegrafixguy.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Rowan Lewis (AKA. The Wolf) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Reason for leaving
Rowan Lewis The talk here is really dull, I agree Brian. Well folks, here's a crazy idea: let's start some good discussions on the principles of web standards then. We need a bit of a catalyst to get things started. Any hot topics anybody's got at the moment? Patrick __ Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Building a tree/table
Hi Fred I don't want to repost the information because it was a bit lengthy, but you may want to visit this thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/wsg@webstandardsgroup.org/msg17305.html I have put together a nested unordered list and use a series of classes on the body and id attributes on the list and link elements to create an expanding contracting tree with arrows and whatnot. I haven't used the dotted lines to show the branches but this could probably be done with background images. Let me know if it doesn't make sense and I can also send you an updated example that accounts for elements that have no children. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fred Eisele Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 7:05 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Building a tree/table I am trying to create a combined tree/table view using web standards. If you don't know what a tree/table is take a look at the following example. http://books.mozdev.org/screenshots/moz_0904.gif Two parts to this question... 1) how should the content be structured? 2) how would the styling work? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Building a tree/table
I would really need an example of what this styles to understand completely, but... I don't *think* this addresses my specific problem. What I want is for the attributes to line up in columns (as in a table). (Sorry, that wasn't clear in the first post.) On 8/12/05, Drake, Ted C. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Fred I don't want to repost the information because it was a bit lengthy, but you may want to visit this thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/wsg@webstandardsgroup.org/msg17305.html I have put together a nested unordered list and use a series of classes on the body and id attributes on the list and link elements to create an expanding contracting tree with arrows and whatnot. I haven't used the dotted lines to show the branches but this could probably be done with background images. Let me know if it doesn't make sense and I can also send you an updated example that accounts for elements that have no children. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fred Eisele Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 7:05 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Building a tree/table I am trying to create a combined tree/table view using web standards. If you don't know what a tree/table is take a look at the following example. http://books.mozdev.org/screenshots/moz_0904.gif Two parts to this question... 1) how should the content be structured? 2) how would the styling work? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** Part Name Attribute 1 Attribute 2 assembly-1 5 7 sub-assembly-1-1 3 4 component-1-1-1 1 2 sub-assembly-1-2 9 2 assembly-2 9 2
Re: [WSG] Building a tree/table
I may be missing something here, but this looks like a classic case where a table could actually be more appropriate. 1. It looks like it is columns of content, so a data table could be appropriate. 2. if you structure the entire thing with spans and style it with CSS, it has no real meaning for other devices such as screen readers, text browsers, or browsers with CSS off. 3. marking the content up using tables would allow you to add accessibility features Here is a rough dummy of how it could be built if tables were chosen: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/jobs/tree-table/ You could do something similar with nested lists or definition lists (not spans), but would it be any more semantically pure? Russ If you don't know what a tree/table is take a look at the following example. http://books.mozdev.org/screenshots/moz_0904.gif Two parts to this question... 1) how should the content be structured? 2) how would the styling work? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Building a tree/table
On 8/12/05, russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I may be missing something here, but this looks like a classic case where a table could actually be more appropriate. Maybe, in fact I have been using a table. The number of levels is indefinite (my application is a assembly hierarchy) so... Rather than using classes (start, end) as you did I am putting in a set of empty elements (a class=child href=parent/) to indicate the level of indentation. (Although yours looks way better than mine, thanks for the clues.) 1. It looks like it is columns of content, so a data table could be appropriate. 2. if you structure the entire thing with spans and style it with CSS, it has no real meaning for other devices such as screen readers, text browsers, or browsers with CSS off. Right, I used spans and divs to rather than ul,li,tr,td to avoid suggesting that I believe that one symantic is more appropriate. 3. marking the content up using tables would allow you to add accessibility features Here is a rough dummy of how it could be built if tables were chosen: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/jobs/tree-table/ You could do something similar with nested lists or definition lists (not spans), but would it be any more semantically pure? No, I don't think it would, but I am not conviced it would be less pure either. snip/ I guess the basic problem then is that the tree with attributes is both a table and a nested list. In my application the tree represents a part assembly. One of the attributes is mass. The mass of the assembly includes the mass of each of its components. The purpose of the tree/table is to show how the parts assemble to produce a new part (a nested list, i.e. a tree) that has attributes derived from the similar attributes of its components. I have two attachments: 1) Tree-table.html - shows what can be done with an nested list major (still div and span which could be replaced with ul/ol/dl and li/dt/dd) 2) tree-Table.html - shows what can be done with table major. Part Name Attribute 1 Attribute 2 assembly-1 5 7 sub-assembly-1-1 3 4 component-1-1-1 1 2 sub-assembly-1-2 9 2 assembly-2 9 2 Part Name Attribute 1 Attribute 2 assembly-1 5 7 sub-assembly-1-1 3 4 component-1-1-1 1 2 sub-assembly-1-2 9 2 assembly-2 9 2
Re: [WSG] Building a tree/table
chop/ I guess the basic problem then is that the tree with attributes is both a table and a nested list. In my application the tree represents a part assembly. One of the attributes is mass. The mass of the assembly includes the mass of each of its components. The purpose of the tree/table is to show how the parts assemble to produce a new part (a nested list, i.e. a tree) that has attributes derived from the similar attributes of its components. I guess it depends on the audience. Sometimes tree-major is appropriate and sometimes table-major is. The table-major view looks pretty good (thanks Russ). But, how to line up the attributes in the tree-major view? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Announcing: Happy Clog!
For our members in the Netherlands (though I'm sure most of you are aware already)... http://kurafire.net/log/archive/2005/08/07/happy-clog Regards, Peter Firminger *** http://webboy.net/ info@webboy.net +612 49983388 +614 12932269 *** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Spacing Issue
Thanks for the replies. I actually took a step back, re-evaluated the suggestions I got and came up with this test page which appears to work: http://www.olpguitars.com/index2.asp The top links all work and I retained the graphic designer's sliced image. oh yeah...it VALIDATES! Thanks Jeff. - Original Message - From: Jeff D. Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Spacing Issue I am sorryhe says while walking away with his head hung in shame... I told them this would happen when trying to act legit and then designing sh..,er, crap. My hands are tied on this one. But I was able to fudge it by manipulating the background image somewhat. http://www.olpguitars.com/index2.asp Got it down to 43 errors at the W3C Validator. And it passes at the W3C CSS Valiadator. Will work on those remaining items in the mnorning...thanks to all. Good night. Jeff - Original Message - From: Peter Firminger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 8:45 PM Subject: RE: [WSG] Spacing Issue Hmmm, back to the basics of this list. Please read the section on Asking for help on the list http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Validate your code. http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.olpguitars.com/olp_basses/occ/o cc_chopperbass.asp Fix those 125 errors and then ask again. Keep in mind that not many people here will want to help you sort out a design that uses tables for layout. P ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
