Thierry
In what arcane alternate reality do comments drive code? You are still
talking about a hack. How is using this different to parsing a User
Agent string? different method but same result.
Adding to this, it's not a valid way of writing your code, as
mentioned on another thread. The
Hi all
Next week bibliotek.dk [Denmark] (url http://bibliotek.dk) is going to
redesign their website
In bibliotek.dk you will find records of all items published in Denmark
as well as all items found in the Danish public research libraries.
There is a beta version ready
Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
The same happens when you use floats inside a container: if you don't
have something as the last item of the container to clear them, the
container will collapse.
That's not always true. If the container is also floated, it DOES expand
to contain child floats.
Hi guys
Im creating a site which will be using rollovers but
what is the best way to create the rollovers, use _javascript_ or use CSS to
control them.
I have used _javascript_ at the moment but I seem to be having
some problems with firefox and images, firefox seems to put some kind
You can do it all using css.
Try this link: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/sprites
Hopefully that helps.
Cheers,
James
From: Kevin Arrowsmith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Image rollovers
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 11:52:56
I expected the manual inputs to accept hex values since that's typically how we work with colors on the web. Perhaps you could offer the option of using hex or decimal?Steve Ferguson - Illumit L.L.C. http://illumit.comOn Oct 8, 2005, at 6:25 PM, Christian Montoya wrote:Hey all, Thanks for the
On 10/9/05, Steve Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I expected the manual inputs to accept hex values since that's
typically how we work with colors on the web. Perhaps you could offer
the option of using hex or decimal?Steve Ferguson - Illumit L.L.C. http://illumit.com
I will, later.
-- - C
hello
all,
ive
dug myself into a hole trying to create a3
div-semiliquidlayout with expandable
drop shadows.-
The
drop shadow method im using isnt perfect for this application but
I cant find a better one as i want an eqaul shadow on
all 4 sides of the div. I cant remember where i got
If you mean for search engines, then yes, I think you are correct.
However, there may be other valid reasons for using metadata.
Does anyone remember when Anil Dash (from Six Apart) beat out 2 SEO
companies and won a SEO competition in 2004?
http://www.dashes.com/anil/2004/07/27/optimizing_sear
Both links point to the same page.
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kvnmcwebn
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005
2:52 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] 3 row(div) liquid
vertical layout w/drop shadows-help-
hello all,
Hi James,
Adding to this, it's not a valid way of writing your code, as
mentioned on another thread.
AFAIK, the discussion you're referring to didn't take us anywhere. It has
been said that Michael Landis summed up the thread pretty well saying:
I think we're getting very close to a debate on
sorry
thats
http://mcmonagle.biz/test.htm
http://mcmonagle.biz/test2.htm
sorry all, i've foundthetutorial that
might help me with this problem so i will try and
figure it out on my own.
thanks
Soren Johannessen wrote:
Next week bibliotek.dk [Denmark] (url http://bibliotek.dk) is going to
redesign their website
In bibliotek.dk you will find records of all items published in Denmark
as well as all items found in the Danish public research libraries.
There is a beta version ready
I'm getting the hang of this whole Web Standards way of designing a website
and for the most part can totally avoid using br. But in the example below
I'm unsure whether I should in fact avoid using br:
pstrongAll correspondence should be addressed to:/strongbr /
The Secretarybr /
Your Clubbr /
This sounds like it's going to turn into another let's all figure out how
to use the address tag thing so let me pre-empt that.
I think the bigger question is can someone proivde an example of when best
to use the br / tag in general?
What type of content semantically requires a line break.
Hi Hope,
There is nothing evil about the br element unless one is using it for visual
effect. In your example, you are using br correctly. For addresses, you might
want to use the address element instead of p.
Regards,
-Vlad
http://xstandard.com
Original Message
From: Hope
On 10/9/05, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That's totally irrelevant. If 2 days ago you knew your article was flawed
then why posting a link to it?
I only mentioned it because it was published exactly 365 days earlier
on a very similar topic (linking CSS to html files). I was amused
The one thing that jumps immediately to my mind is poetry where the linebreak has serious semantic value.
Another might be for code snippets where the author wants to indicate thatthe actaull code continues on one line but is broken up in his example fordeomnstration / readability. This is usually
Richard Czeiger wrote:
I think the bigger question is can someone proivde an example of when
best to use the br / tag in general?
What type of content semantically requires a line break.
- Original Message - From: Hope Stewart
I'm unsure whether I should in fact avoid using br:
Tantek Celik talks about the address and br / tags in his Elements of
Meaningful XHTML presentation at WE05 available here:
http://www.odeo.com/audio/270419/view
My suggestion would be that br / is not necessary when the same visual
effect can be achieved with span around each address item
I've only started using web standards this year. This list has been an
invaluable source of knowledge (thanks everyone -- keep it up!).
There was a thread earlier this year that discussed how images that are
presentational and not part of the content should be placed as background
images through
Vlad Alexander (XStandard) wrote:
Hi Hope,
There is nothing evil about the br element unless one is using it for visual effect. In your
example, you are using br correctly. For addresses, you might want to use the address
element instead of p.
Regards,
-Vlad
http://xstandard.com
I
Hope Stewart wrote:
pstrongAll correspondence should be addressed to:/strongbr /
The Secretarybr /
Your Clubbr /
PO Box 999br /
Anytown VIC 3000/p
This may be a good case for an address tag:
pAll correspondence should be addressed to:/p
address
spanThe Secretary/span
spanYour Club/span
On 10/10/05 9:47 AM, Jon Tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Tantek Celik talks about the address and br / tags in his Elements of
Meaningful XHTML presentation at WE05 available here:
http://www.odeo.com/audio/270419/view
I was present for Tantek's talk and I thought he said address was used
only
Jon Tan said:
My suggestion would be that br / is not necessary when the same visual
effect can be achieved with span around each address item which is then
style span{display:block} with CSS. Each span could have a semantically
useful classname or you could look in to the hCard microformat:
pAll correspondence should be addressed to:/p
address
spanThe Secretary/span
spanYour Club/span
spanPO Box 999/span
spanAnytown VIC 3000/span
/address
a) This is IMHO not good use for an address element (context matters).
b) spans? Why? The're inline and they're overhead here.
--
Jan Brasna
Hope Stewart wrote:
There was a thread earlier this year that discussed how images that
are presentational and not part of the content should be placed as
background images through the css and not coded into the html with
the img. This makes a lot of sense.
With all sites I've worked on, I'd
Hope Stewart wrote:
How do others code an address? My feeling is that semantically it
should be contained within one paragraph or entity of some sort. But
if you were using a screen reader, how would you differentiate one
line from the next?
Non-CSS browsers dictates where to use br /
span has absolutely no semantic value, so unless you are going to apply
formatting to each constiuent of the address, or you are going to use the
hcard microformat I really see no point in adding page weight simply to
avoid using a br / element of two.
kind regards
Terrence Wood.
The hCard
I was present for Tantek's talk and I thought he said address was used
only for information about the author, not for various adddresses that
might
be listed on a Contact Us page. I don't recall what he said about br.
I'll
have to download the podcast and listen to it again -- it will be a
Hope Stewart wrote:
I was present for Tantek's talk and I thought he said address was used
only for information about the author
Which holds true if the address is used to mark up:
- the contact information for the current site (e.g. if it's a corporate
site and you're giving the company's
Hope Stewart said:
With all sites I've worked on, I'd say that the company logo falls into
this presentational category. But I wasn't aware of this concept for my
first few sites, so I have some sites where the company logo is part of
the html and others where it is part of the css.
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:51:49 +1000, Hope Stewart wrote:
What do others think? I am quite happy to be persuaded otherwise by a sound
logical argument/discussion!
I have decided to (generally) make the logo part of the html.
Its part of the content, the company's branding is an important element
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 00:47:42 +0100, Jon Tan wrote:
My suggestion would be that br / is not necessary when the same visual
effect can be achieved with span around each address item which is then
style span{display:block} with CSS.
Curiosity - why use a span and apply display: block? Why not
Mike Brown wrote:
Ok, I'll bite and ask why would you not use br / in the address
example above? Aren't the semantics of an address that the different
elements are (usually) on separate lines?
You answered your own question: Parts of an address are *usually*, but
*not always*, written on
pstrongAll correspondence should be addressed to:/strongbr /
The Secretarybr /
Your Clubbr /
PO Box 999br /
Anytown VIC 3000/p
How do others code an address? My feeling is that semantically it should
be
contained within one paragraph or entity of some sort. But if you were
using
a screen reader,
If BR is good enough for W3C, it's good enough for me.
Refer: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/html3/address.html
The ADDRESS element specifies such information as address, signature and
authorship for the current document, and typically placed at the top or
bottom of the document. When used with %text,
Terrence Wood wrote:
span has absolutely no semantic value,
That's not quite true. The spans used in the previous examples do have
semantic value: they group together parts of an address. Admittedly,
that might not be much, but it's not nothing.
Curiosity - why use a span and apply display: block? Why not just use a
div in the first place? What are we gaining that I have missed?
Hi Lea,
The span use instead of div was to allow for semantic class names as per
http://www.microformats.org/wiki/hcard. Maybe it's also personal preference
Graham Cook wrote:
If BR is good enough for W3C, it's good enough for me.
Refer: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/html3/address.html
Sure, back in March 1995 when HTML 3.0 was released as a recommendation.
**
The discussion list for
What do others think?
1 vote here for always making the logo a regular img and part of the
html markup. reasoning for me is a pretty simple one. its content! :)
cheers,
pete
~~~
Peter Ottery ~ Creative Director
Daemon Pty Ltd
17 Roslyn Gardens
Elizabeth Bay NSW 2011
If BR is good enough for W3C, it's good enough for me.
Refer: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/html3/address.html
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/126 - Release Date:
09/10/2005
Hi Graham
Without being pedantic, you're
Lea de Groot wrote:
Curiosity - why use a span and apply display: block? Why not just use a
div in the first place? What are we gaining that I have missed?
It's invalid:
!ELEMENT address %Inline;
**
The discussion list for
Thierry -
Umm... the first result:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=conditional+comments+are+evilbtnG=Searchmeta=
is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2005Apr/0027.html
One of the functions of this list and group is to implement best
practices using W3C standards based
My thoughts entirely.
I would definitely want the company logo as an IMG element.
If your company's site was to be viewed without the use of CSS, would you still want the logo the appear? I would.
--adam--On 10/10/05, Peter Ottery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What do others think?1 vote here for
Jon Tan wrote:
The span use instead of div was to allow for semantic class names
as per http://www.microformats.org/wiki/hcard. Maybe it's also
personal preference but I would always seek to minimise the block
level grouping elements in my mark-up.
span or div, if the purpose of wrapping
OK so someone pointed out that pre would be better for poetry and I agree
but with some reservations.
pre does a nice job of handling the visual side of things but from a
screen reader's point of view, how do they handle a line break through pre
as opposed to br /. Do they pause or say new
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 03:18:51 +0200, Mordechai Peller wrote:
It's invalid:
!ELEMENT address %Inline;
What? No, this is used instead of an address element.
No one suggested we should put divs inside an address.
Jon's reply of matching the hcard microformat is a good one :) Thank
you, Jon.
span or div, if the purpose of wrapping these lines is just to make them
behave as block elements, then why not wrapping only 2 our of 4?
If it was pure presenation, sure, but this was with reference to sematics. A
hCard (which was the original idea of the reply) needs more:
Jon Tan wrote:
It's arguable whether address applies to the whole resource or just
a document within it,
In many cases, the contact information for a document and that of its
site are the same. This is especially true on a Contact Us or an
About Us type page.
James Ellis wrote:
One of the functions of this list and group is to implement best
practices using W3C standards based development. These conditionals you
talk about are a Microsoft addition to workaround bugs in their software
(what happened to fixing the bugs?), like coloured scrollbars
On 10/10/05 11:25 AM, adam reitsma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I would definitely want the company logo as an IMG element.
If your company's site was to be viewed without the use of CSS, would you
still want the logo the appear? I would.
Really, really good point! Thanks, I hadn't thought of
However, there is an argument that
has the logo in the CSS particularly for branding purposes. Hear me
out...
You put the logo in the CSS. Nice
and big and branded etc...
Then you make a special logo for,
oh I don't know, mobile devices. Small, crisp, pixel perfect.
Now your users can see
James,
One of the functions of this list and group is to implement best
practices
using W3C standards based development. These conditionals you talk
about are
a Microsoft addition to workaround bugs in their software (what
happened to
fixing the bugs?), like coloured scrollbars and DirectX
I need to rephrase what I said earlier.
If you are using the hcard microformat, or you want to apply styles to
each constiuent use span. If the previous conditions are not true, then
use br, because it has much semantic value as span and uses less
markup.
span is a generic container for language
Crikey, I use br / all the time. I did not know I was being so naughty.
-Original Message-
From: Hope Stewart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 10 October 2005 8:48 AM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: [WSG] Avoiding the evil br
I'm getting the hang of this whole Web Standards way
This thread is a clear case of why non-standards developers laugh at us (Web
Standards Zealots) and justifiably say we're irrelevant.
We're arguing over a line break! Forget the context (but a postal or street
address is a fine example of the need for a line break in the way most (en)
people
Now that's a good argument, Richard! And just when I had been persuaded to
use img. hm.
On the second website I ever made using web standards I do have one logo for
browsers and a cut-down version for print. But when I was making the site, I
didn't know about putting images in the background
Richard Czeiger wrote:
Doing it this way IS good branding.
It's also about controlling HOW you want your logo to appear in
certain context. Anyone that's written a Corporate Style Guide will
know what I'm talking about...
Good point.
This Image Replacement method [1] allows this type of
1. Why use spans and not divs when divs are already block level
elements. No need for CSS styling.
2. The main compelling reason to use br's is because semanically that
is the right way to do it. Not a big deal I though because a line
break is a fairly semantically neurtal thing anyways.
I prefer the following IR:
div id=masthead
h1a href=index.html title=The Company Name Web SiteCompany
Name/a/h1
/div
in the stylesheet:
#masthead h1 {
margin: 0px; padding: 0px;
}
a {
width: Xpx; height: Ypx; overflow: hidden;
margin: 0px; padding: 0px; padding-top: Xpx;
Peter Firminger wrote:
This thread is a clear case of why non-standards developers laugh at us (Web
Standards Zealots) and justifiably say we're irrelevant.
We're arguing over a line break! Forget the context (but a postal or street
address is a fine example of the need for a line break in the
Richard Czeiger wrote:
That way you don't get clear.gif going in your otherwise
semantically nice mark up :o)
... but that way you don't get a clickable logo ;)
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
**
The discussion list for
oh dear
is it just me, or does this TIP method seem like the modern-day version of the spacer gif?
On 10/10/05, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Richard Czeiger wrote: Doing it this way IS good branding. It's also about controlling HOW you want your logo to appear in certain context.
Umm actually you do..
Check out www.courtappearances.com.au to see what I'm talking about.
Here's the CSS for that:
http://www.courtappearances.com.au/styles/style.css
R :o)
- Original Message -
From: Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent:
I dont' know how it works in the big leagues over at the W3C but I imagine
that there's a fair amount of discussion internally about every single
little bit they put into their specs.
Also, I have a stong feeling that our little mailing list here actually is a
significant player into what the
Sorry if this has been discussed before and it may be a little of topic of this
thread but
I have always wondered why h1 would be used in the header of the page for a
logo.
I have always thought the h1 element should be the main heading for the content
eg.
h1About Us/h1
pcontent.../p
This
Not much to wory about though. You can download the file open it with a
simple text editor and read it.
=== standardistas.src =
# Rollyo Search - Sherlock Plug-in
SEARCH
name=Standardistas
description = Standards-based web development resources
method=GET
On 10/9/05, Richard Czeiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
OK so someone pointed out that pre would be better for poetry That was me.
pre does a nice job of handling the visual side of things but from ascreen reader's point of view, how do they handle a line break through preas opposed to br /. Do
On 10/9/05, Buddy Quaid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Peter Firminger wrote:This thread is a clear case of why non-standards developers laugh at us (WebStandards Zealots) and justifiably say we're irrelevant.We're arguing over a line break! Forget the context (but a postal or street
address is a fine
I just (hopefully) finished a somewhat complex layout. It's liquid, and has max-width for all the good browsers. As for IE, it has some _javascript_ that forces IE to implement max-width. After that, it's just an untamed liquid layout for the IE users without _javascript_... who probably don't
Good morning all,
I've racked my brain, but can't seem to figure out the problem. I just launched
my site's
redesign (www.webnetdesignstudios.com), and although I'm pleased with the
initial results I'm
still addressing a few bugs. The one that bothers me the most is the fact that
the main menu
Hey Christian.
Actually I find when reading an
address (or telling it to someone else) I do pause after certain
elements:
street,
suburb,
state and postcode (these seem to
go togetherfor my internal voice - NSW 2011 - almost like a license
plate)
Saying the whole address wihout
pausing
74 matches
Mail list logo
