Re: [WSG] Firefox filter?
so why not use a Javascript solution? As a horrible understatement, because I'm not very good at javascript ;) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] is this a tabular data?
guys, what do you think if this kind of organizing data http://easyhttp.net/files/1.pdf - 17KB is it tabular data? or a list? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] is this a tabular data?
Jad Madi wrote: guys, what do you think if this kind of organizing data http://easyhttp.net/files/1.pdf - 17KB is it tabular data? or a list? At the moment it's tabular data, but the layout is not reflecting that...it's a layout table. Tabular would be something like table thead trthIcon/ththName/ththDescription/th/tr /thead tbody trtdimg src//tdtdname1/tdtddesc1/td/tr trtdimg src//tdtdname2/tdtddesc2/td/tr trtdimg src//tdtdname3/tdtddesc3/td/tr ... /tbody /table -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] is this a tabular data?
A definition list dl would be the best way to represent such data. Can even be styled in the tabular layout in your example. Scott McDaniel has an interesting article at http://www.scottmcdaniel.com/?p=33 in which he undertakes a layout similar to that you have proposed (example at http://www.scottmcdaniel.com/wp-content/articles/manipulating-definition-lists/index.htm) Another great resource on definition lists and styling options is http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/definition/ Regards, Jachin On 10/30/05, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jad Madi wrote: guys, what do you think if this kind of organizing data http://easyhttp.net/files/1.pdf - 17KB is it tabular data? or a list? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] is this a tabular data?
I'm not sure if i'm going to use defining trick, what I know about standards markup and symantic, is to use the tag by it's meaning rather than by How it look like, thats why i was consufed if it's a list or table, because I'm listing users , and at the same time I have more than two cells, and more than two rows, so I ended up with I'm listing users inside a table ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] is this a tabular data?
Jad Madi wrote: I'm not sure if i'm going to use defining trick, what I know about standards markup and symantic, is to use the tag by it's meaning rather than by How it look like, thats why i was consufed if it's a list or table, because I'm listing users , and at the same time I have more than two cells, and more than two rows, so I ended up with I'm listing users inside a table A table is also intrinsically a list (where each row in the table body is essentially an item). And yes, you were right to use a table. However, the WAY you used the table (from what I could gather from your PDF) was not the appropriate structured way...you were simply using it to present things in a certain visual order. -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] is this a tabular data?
Here is the actual markup for table NOTE: I'm not using th/th because I don't want it to appear visually, but I'm not sure if that would break standards or not, so please advise. table id=table tbody tr id=row1 td img src=path/to/icon.png alt=Icon of user / ul lispan class=pinktext toots boldName/span/li liPost # 1/li liPost # 2/li liPost # 3/li liPost # 4/li liPost # 5/li /ul span class=pinktextVote * ** *** */span /td td img src=path/to/icon.png alt=Icon of user / ul lispan class=pinktext toots boldName/span/li liPost # 1/li liPost # 2/li liPost # 3/li liPost # 4/li liPost # 5/li /ul span class=pinktextVote * ** *** */span /td td img src=path/to/icon.png alt=Icon of user / ul lispan class=pinktext toots boldName/span/li liPost # 1/li liPost # 2/li liPost # 3/li liPost # 4/li liPost # 5/li /ul span class=pinktextVote * ** *** */span /td /tr tr id=row2 td img src=path/to/icon.png alt=Icon of user / ul lispan class=pinktext toots boldName/span/li liPost # 1/li liPost # 2/li liPost # 3/li liPost # 4/li liPost # 5/li /ul span class=pinktextVote * ** *** */span /td td img src=path/to/icon.png alt=Icon of user / ul lispan class=pinktext toots boldName/span/li liPost # 1/li liPost # 2/li liPost # 3/li liPost # 4/li liPost # 5/li /ul span class=pinktextVote * ** *** */span /td tdimg src=path/to/icon.png alt=Icon of user / ul lispan class=pinktext toots boldName/span/li liPost # 1/li liPost # 2/li liPost # 3/li liPost # 4/li liPost # 5/li /ul span class=pinktextVote * ** *** */span /td /tr tr id=row3 tdimg src=path/to/icon.png alt=Icon of user / ul lispan class=pinktext toots boldName/span/li liPost # 1/li liPost # 2/li liPost # 3/li liPost # 4/li liPost # 5/li /ul span class=pinktextVote * ** *** */span /td td img src=path/to/icon.png alt=Icon of user / ul lispan class=pinktext toots boldName/span/li liPost # 1/li liPost # 2/li liPost # 3/li liPost # 4/li liPost # 5/li /ul span class=pinktextVote * ** *** */span /td td img src=path/to/icon.png alt=Icon of user / ul lispan class=pinktext toots boldName/span/li liPost # 1/li liPost # 2/li liPost # 3/li liPost # 4/li liPost # 5/li /ul span class=pinktextVote * ** *** */span /td /tr /tbody /table ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] form hidden field ?
csslist said:
thanks guys :)
I actually cheated and just took it out and put it elsewhere...
I couldnt take the Block display off because then it screws up form.
good catch though Joshua :)
Another fix for CSS2.1 compliant browsers (i.e. not IE):
input[type=hidden] {
display:none;
}
or
input[type=hidden]
{
position:absolute;
left: -px;
}
kind regards
Terrence Wood
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Re: [WSG] form hidden field ?
- - This is an automatic reply - - I am on leave until Monday 31 Oct If your email is regarding the University webite, please email [EMAIL PROTECTED] in my absence, or contact: Sarah Bell Marketing Communications Manager e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] t: 023 9284 2948 or Paul Krycler Web Content Editor e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] t: 023 9284 2747 Regards, James Mellor ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Adding a header to a tbody
Joshua Street said: Is there any rule against having more than one thead in a table? Ted Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't think of a way this morning to add a header to a tbody. @Joshua tbody is a misnomer... a better name would have been rowgroup, but I digress... Yes, you can have multiple tbody elements in a table. tbody is an implied element when you have *not* defined thead or tfoot in the table, otherwise it is required. @Ted You are only allowed one thead, and one tfoot (which must appear before tbody) per table. A heading for a tbody is th with scope=rowgroup. Of course, browser support for the scope attribute is patchy, but this is the semantically correct way of marking it up. It also gives you a really nice hook on which to apply your css: th[scope=rowgroup] Some samples of complex table markup: http://www.treasury.govt.nz/cms/samplemarkup/index.htm @people rushing to their favorite validators =) Yes, I'm aware of the missing alt, it's in the pipeline for a fix. See if you can find the error that the w3c validator misses. Replies offlist. kind regards Terrence Wood. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Firefox filter?
Is there any valid way make firefox (well, gecko in general)
ignore a rule
*|* selector {property:value}
pretty sure mozilla is the only browser to apply this rule from memory
YMMV and you probably want to check KHTML browsers.
kind regards
Terrence Wood.
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RE: [WSG] Firefox filter?
Hi Kenny, As far as I can tell it is all about how the browser plays and handles the animated GIFs. I have found that FF using animated GIFs as backgrounds will play the animation once on each page and it takes a refresh or navigating to a new page to play the animation again. I actually found Safari to be the most frustrating with animated GIFs as backgrounds - it depends on what element the GIF is placed as a background, but it will only play the first frame and stop. But yes, IE plays the animations perfectly each time as expected. However on site that I used animated GIFs as backgrounds it wasn't so much of an issue as they were little extras, not on navigation. I have not found any work around or solution so I'm afraid I can't help you any further. Rachel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kenny Graham Sent: Saturday, 29 October 2005 8:17 p.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Firefox filter? I would be concerned about a bug only showing up in Firefox, I believe that hiding something from Firefox is not the way to go, but rather, make it right in Firefox and then worry about the others. Usually I'd agree. But in this case, that won't work. :( ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] my rounded corner box isn't displaying correctly in IE
I have a rounded corner box I am using with four images and it displays fine in Mozilla... http://www.inspired-evolution.com/About_Me.php in IE, however, the right side of the box is flat. Can anyone offer some suggestions in getting this to look as intended in IE? the CSS is at : http://www.inspired-evolution.com/Gilbert.css thanks much in advance! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] my rounded corner box isn't displaying correctly in IE
Classic box model problem. Don't apply padding or margins (unless zero) to block level elements width a set width. Use an additional div for padding and margins. Joe Taylor http://sitesbyjoe.com Bruce Gilbert wrote: I have a rounded corner box I am using with four images and it displays fine in Mozilla... http://www.inspired-evolution.com/About_Me.php in IE, however, the right side of the box is flat. Can anyone offer some suggestions in getting this to look as intended in IE? the CSS is at : http://www.inspired-evolution.com/Gilbert.css thanks much in advance! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Text choices on our own sites
As a thought, I wanted to point something out. No one cares about standards or accessibility but us. Its our job to care. As an example, we can view any of the URLs on this list, and see a common thread - we all like to point out that we use standards and care about accessibility. I've noticed that often, our text almost sounds as though we write it just in case another group member reads it so we make sure no one thinks we suck or something. You won't find this in any other industry. Our potential clients want to know that we care, but we can never expect them to care about the difference between HTML and XHTML and XML, nor should we ever expect them to care much about CSS vs. tables for layout. Our clients don't care as long as it works. They do care that we care enough to make them the best, most accessible site we can, but they could care less how. Just a thought. Joe Taylor http://sitesbyjoe.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
When I explain to clients why standards are important I bring up the following list: http://www.geminidevelopment.com.au/html/article_whycomplient.php And explain it to them point by point. Samuel Joseph R. B. Taylor wrote: As a thought, I wanted to point something out. No one cares about standards or accessibility but us. Its our job to care. As an example, we can view any of the URLs on this list, and see a common thread - we all like to point out that we use standards and care about accessibility. I've noticed that often, our text almost sounds as though we write it just in case another group member reads it so we make sure no one thinks we suck or something. You won't find this in any other industry. Our potential clients want to know that we care, but we can never expect them to care about the difference between HTML and XHTML and XML, nor should we ever expect them to care much about CSS vs. tables for layout. Our clients don't care as long as it works. They do care that we care enough to make them the best, most accessible site we can, but they could care less how. Just a thought. Joe Taylor http://sitesbyjoe.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
Thanks, Sam. That was useful. I've been looking for official-looking third-party confitmation of this description. It's now being printed out and will be framed and mounted by end of day. :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Samuel Richardson Sent: Monday, 31 October 2005 10:09 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites When I explain to clients why standards are important I bring up the following list: http://www.geminidevelopment.com.au/html/article_whycomplient.php And explain it to them point by point. Samuel Joseph R. B. Taylor wrote: As a thought, I wanted to point something out. No one cares about standards or accessibility but us. Its our job to care. As an example, we can view any of the URLs on this list, and see a common thread - we all like to point out that we use standards and care about accessibility. I've noticed that often, our text almost sounds as though we write it just in case another group member reads it so we make sure no one thinks we suck or something. You won't find this in any other industry. Our potential clients want to know that we care, but we can never expect them to care about the difference between HTML and XHTML and XML, nor should we ever expect them to care much about CSS vs. tables for layout. Our clients don't care as long as it works. They do care that we care enough to make them the best, most accessible site we can, but they could care less how. Just a thought. Joe Taylor http://sitesbyjoe.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
Hi Everyone cares about accessibility, both consciously and/or subsconsciously. I hate this website, I can't find anything on it. I'm going somewhere else - that's someone caring about accessibility. Cheers JamesOn 10/31/05, Joseph R. B. Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a thought, I wanted to point something out.No one cares aboutstandards or accessibility but us.Its our job to care.
Re: [WSG] is this a tabular data?
I agree with Jachin. The most semantic way of doing it would be: dl dtimg src=icon.gif /Name/dt ddInfo/dd dtimg src=icon.gif /Name/dt ddInfo/dd /dl ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Adding a header to a tbody
Hi There is some good table info at http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/tables/table.html Cheers James
Re: [WSG] is this a tabular data?
Ok, I was basing my last post on the pdf. Things change a bit if you're throwing in a list of posts and stuff. I agree with Jachin. The most semantic way of doing it would be: dl dtimg src=icon.gif /Name/dt ddInfo/dd dtimg src=icon.gif /Name/dt ddInfo/dd /dl ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
Hi Joe, Our clients don't care as long as it works. They do care that we care enough to make them the best, most accessible site we can, but they could care less how. It's more of an issue when a website is maintained by the client. If they're not aware of the distinction between accessible and inaccessible markup, they'll be unable to preserve the integrity of the content. If they 'don't care' in this sense, then they won't take the time to add alt attributes, validate code, only use tables for data, etc. While some CMS's have measures to prevent contributors from unintentionally creating inaccessible markup, others happy proclaim standards compliance while encouraging/enabling content to be entered inappropriately or incompletely. For example, the use of blockquote to achieve a text indent (a 'feature' of a number of wysiwyg authoring tools). An informed content author would (of course) only use this feature to denote a quotation... The manufacturing industry provides another example of where standards are equally important. Screw threads, washer bores, etc. that are manufactured to a particular quality (as in materials or finish) or standard specification (size, weight) have a 'home' in the real world. It all depends on who the client is and what criteria they're using to assess potential development partners as to how relevant standards and accessibility discussions are. Legal precedents can also carry a bit of weight. Cheers, -- Andy Kirkwood | Creative Director Motive | web.design.integrity http://www.motive.co.nz ph: (04) 3 800 800 fx: (04) 970 9693 mob: 021 369 693 93 Rintoul St, Newtown PO Box 7150, Wellington South, New Zealand ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
Samuel Richardson wrote: When I explain to clients why standards are important I bring up the following list: http://www.geminidevelopment.com.au/html/article_whycomplient.php And explain it to them point by point. Of course if I was a client, I'd immediately question the compliance of the spelling :) whycomplient Mike - unable to resist, even though I do live in a glass house ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
I don't think it must be neccessarily a common issue. Many agencies I know here mostly don't even mention standards or the particular technologies, they're just selling greatly usable, effective and profitable web solutions to the clients and since they are professionals and they care the output is standards-based as an obvious thing. -- Jan Brasna aka JohnyB :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
Hi James, I would argue that your statement I hate this website, I can't find anything on it. I'm going somewhere else - that's someone caring about accessibility. Is someone caring about usability not accessibility. Whats the difference? Usability is about being fit for the intended purpose, accessibility is about being equally available to all demographics, or as I describe them when I train web accessibility, usability discriminates against everyone equally, accessibility discriminates against individuals or specific groups of people. Graham Cook www.uaoz.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Ellis Sent: Monday, 31 October 2005 10:18 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites Hi Everyone cares about accessibility, both consciously and/or subsconsciously. I hate this website, I can't find anything on it. I'm going somewhere else - that's someone caring about accessibility. Cheers James On 10/31/05, Joseph R. B. Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a thought, I wanted to point something out.No one cares about standards or accessibility but us.Its our job to care.
Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
I make a point of mentioning it in my scopes, if I'm asked about it then I iterate the advantages of it but I don't feel the need to really push the promotion of it. Jan Brasna wrote: I don't think it must be neccessarily a common issue. Many agencies I know here mostly don't even mention standards or the particular technologies, they're just selling greatly usable, effective and profitable web solutions to the clients and since they are professionals and they care the output is standards-based as an obvious thing. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
Actually James, I think this is more a Usability concern rather than an Accessibility concern. Whatyou might say instead is: "I can't view the site on my browser and even if I could, the text is samll and I can't change it!" Or "Why does this site tell me I need to have _javascript_ turned on? How do I even do that?" R :o) - Original Message - From: James Ellis To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites HiEveryone cares about accessibility, both consciously and/or subsconsciously."I hate this website, I can't find anything on it. I'm going somewhere else" - that's someone caring about accessibility.CheersJames On 10/31/05, Joseph R. B. Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a thought, I wanted to point something out.No one cares aboutstandards or accessibility but us.Its our job to care.
Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
I think another part of this is also the fact that web development is moving towards being a more respected industry and escaping the 'techno-mysticism' that surrounded it in the late 90s when we were all meant to be snowboarding designers or propellorheads. Having standards (and using them!) is a way to make Web Development more of a serious industry in the same way that having an industry body (like AIMIA) adds to our credibility. On top of of all that, Jan's absolutely right - we ARE professionals and we DO care about providing our clients with the best quality work we can - otherwise we'd all create web sites in MS word and export them as HTML. Our clients demand that we give them the best product and if they don't then it's only becuase they don't know the difference. Thing is, they shop around and if one developer mentions standards-compliant design in their proposal and another one doesn't then any vaguely intelligent client is going to ask the other do YOU write standards-compliant code? Hopefully, it will not be something to look out for in the future, but rather a base practice - like having a license to drive a taxi. In the meantime, I think it's still a bit of a selling point, if nothing else. R :o) - Original Message - From: Jan Brasna [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites I don't think it must be neccessarily a common issue. Many agencies I know here mostly don't even mention standards or the particular technologies, they're just selling greatly usable, effective and profitable web solutions to the clients and since they are professionals and they care the output is standards-based as an obvious thing. -- Jan Brasna aka JohnyB :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
You know, you CAN be semantic to a point. Usability is directly related to accessibility. If a site's unusable, ot difficult to navigate, then it is inaccessible. Nuff said, peeps. Let's get back to some real work. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard CzeigerSent: Monday, 31 October 2005 11:30 AMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites Actually James, I think this is more a Usability concern rather than an Accessibility concern. Whatyou might say instead is: "I can't view the site on my browser and even if I could, the text is samll and I can't change it!" Or "Why does this site tell me I need to have _javascript_ turned on? How do I even do that?" R :o) - Original Message - From: James Ellis To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites HiEveryone cares about accessibility, both consciously and/or subsconsciously."I hate this website, I can't find anything on it. I'm going somewhere else" - that's someone caring about accessibility.CheersJames On 10/31/05, Joseph R. B. Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a thought, I wanted to point something out.No one cares aboutstandards or accessibility but us.Its our job to care.
[WSG] {WSG] What's the best way to display links?
Heya, I'm writing up a page that has a lot of resource links with some very long urls. Consider these two ways of displaying the links: Leet Universitys - Online Leet Quiz http://www.wowthisisareallylongurl.com/with/four/sub/folders/andanequallybadhtmlpagename.html or Leet Universitys - Online Leet Quiz The 2nd way looks much nicer on the screen but a few other things come to mind when I look at the two links. 1) Screen Readers Is it wrong to have the link and description together? I mean, with a screen reader if you were going to base your decision on whether to go to the link on the description then you'd have to select the link before it finished reading it out. (Know what I mean?) I can imagine the thought process would be like this, Ok, this is a link to the Leet Universitys Online Leet Quiz. I think I'd like to take that quiz. But now I have to back pedal because we've moved on to the next link. 2) Screen Readers >From memory a screen reader reads out the url when it starts on a new page anyway so I'd imagine that constantly listening to full url's would become tedious. 3) Screen Readers The software has an option for displaying all links. Wouldn't a long list of links starting with http:// defeat the purpose compared with having meaninggul links such as Leet Universitys - Online Leet Quiz. 4) Printing Yes, you wouldnt get the url on paper. Maybe some CSS can solve this one. Any thoughts? Jon
Re: [WSG] is this a tabular data?
Jad, If you were going to use a table for displaying users, then Patrick's sample markup is the way to go. As far as I can see, the sample code you return uses the table purely for layout purposes. Whilst using an unordered list is the semantically correct way to mark-up the list of posts, putting the user's name in the same list isn't. Given your latest example, I would extend Patrick's code to include the list of posts as follows: table thead tr thIcon/th thName/th thDescription/th thPosts/th thVote/th /tr /thead tbody tr tdimg src//td tdname1/td tddesc1/td td ul liPost 1/li liPost 2/li lietc.../li /ul /td tdVote/td /tr etc... Styling this to look like a bunch of stacked boxes is something that can't safely be done cross-browser at the moment as it would involve deconstructing the default table CSS and restyling the display type of the tr and td elements. If the layout is important to you, I still think the dl is a possibility... but not so semantic now that you have a list of posts attached to each user. Regards, Jachin On 10/31/05, Jad Madi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is the actual markup for table NOTE: I'm not using th/th because I don't want it to appear visually, but I'm not sure if that would break standards or not, so please advise. table id=table tbody tr id=row1 td img src=path/to/icon.png alt=Icon of user / ul lispan class=pinktext toots boldName/span/li liPost # 1/li liPost # 2/li liPost # 3/li liPost # 4/li liPost # 5/li /ul span class=pinktextVote * ** *** */span /td ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] {WSG] What's the best way to display links?
Jon Dawson wrote: 1) Screen Readers Is it wrong to have the link and description together? I mean, with a screen reader if you were going to base your decision on whether to go to the link on the description then you'd have to select the link before it finished reading it out. (Know what I mean?) I can imagine the thought process would be like this, Ok, this is a link to the Leet Universitys Online Leet Quiz. I think I'd like to take that quiz. But now I have to back pedal because we've moved on to the next link. Your reservations seem to be based on the erroneous assumption that a screen reader user gets to a page and just sits there passively, listening to the whole page being read out top to bottom, finger poised over the enter key in order to activate a link. This, luckily, is not how a screen reader user works: it's an interactive process. The user will speed through the page, speed up the reading, slow it down, skip to the next/previous paragraph, get an overview of the page headings, tab from link to link, call up a list of all links on the page, etc. So, they're most likely to have tabbed to your link, or seeing the link in the link list...in which case it makes perfect sense to have good descriptive link titles that include a bit of description of where the link would take the user. And yes, if they *were* just listening passively, they could still hit shift+tab to get to the link very quickly, which is not a problem and part of their normal way of working. 2) Screen Readers From memory a screen reader reads out the url when it starts on a new page anyway so I'd imagine that constantly listening to full url's would become tedious. It's also, in the majority of cases, completely incomprehensible and bad for usability. As a screen reader user I wouldn't want to hear H T T P colon slash slash W W W dot ... etc 3) Screen Readers The software has an option for displaying all links. Wouldn't a long list of links starting with http:// defeat the purpose compared with having meaninggul links such as Leet Universitys - Online Leet Quiz. Exactly. 4) Printing Yes, you wouldnt get the url on paper. Maybe some CSS can solve this one. Way back in 2002 Eric Meyer already touched on this. See the Printed links section under http://www.alistapart.com/articles/goingtoprint/ -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
On 30/10/05, Richard Czeiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually James, I think this is more a Usability concern rather than an Accessibility concern. What you might say instead is: I can't view the site on my browser and even if I could, the text is samll and I can't change it! Or Why does this site tell me I need to have JavaScript turned on? How do I even do that? AFAIK, all browsers have JavaScript turned on by default. If a user has turned it off, the user certainly ought to know how to undo his previous action. (If a user has had a friend do it, the user ought to be able to get the answers from the friend.) (Disclaimer: I avoid using JavaScript because many people will not use it.) -- T. R. Valentine Use a decent browser: Safari, Firefox, Mozilla, Opera (Avoid IE like the plague it is) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 19:20:09 -0600, T. R. Valentine wrote: AFAIK, all browsers have JavaScript turned on by default. If a user has turned it off, the user certainly ought to know how to undo his previous action. (If a user has had a friend do it, the user ought to be able to get the answers from the friend.) Not necessarily - corporately, some IT departments will turn off Javascript pre-emptively for non-trusted sites. This does not mean that the user will be aware, or understand, this. :( warmly, Lea -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems - http://elysiansystems.com/ Brisbane, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
Organisations can turn javascript off when installing/configuring then lock the browser. I've worked in places where this has happened... Donna On 30 Oct 2005 at 19:20, T. R. Valentine wrote: AFAIK, all browsers have JavaScript turned on by default. If a user has turned it off, the user certainly ought to know how to undo his previous action. (If a user has had a friend do it, the user ought to be able to get the answers from the friend.) -- Donna Maurer Maadmob Interaction Design e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: http://maadmob.com.au/ blog: http://maadmob.net/donna/blog/ AOL IM: maadmob ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
Also - the Nokia browser on my phone doesn't support JavaScript. And even if it did, where the heck would I change the settings? Device independence is a big part of Accessibility, IMHO. R :o) - Original Message - From: Donna Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites Organisations can turn javascript off when installing/configuring then lock the browser. I've worked in places where this has happened... Donna On 30 Oct 2005 at 19:20, T. R. Valentine wrote: AFAIK, all browsers have JavaScript turned on by default. If a user has turned it off, the user certainly ought to know how to undo his previous action. (If a user has had a friend do it, the user ought to be able to get the answers from the friend.) -- Donna Maurer Maadmob Interaction Design e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: http://maadmob.com.au/ blog: http://maadmob.net/donna/blog/ AOL IM: maadmob ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
I think it's important to NOT expect users to know how to do this or even be vaguely technically literate. Doctors, for example, shouldn't have to be IT experts. They fix people not machines. It's simply not their job or responsibility to be forced to learn the HUGE amount of stuff that as developers we've crammed into our head. This doesn't mean they should be penaliseed and not allowed to see web sites or interact as freely on the web as the rest of us. Isn't that part of the point of accessibility? R - Original Message - From: Lea de Groot [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites Not necessarily - corporately, some IT departments will turn off Javascript pre-emptively for non-trusted sites. This does not mean that the user will be aware, or understand, this. :( warmly, Lea ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
Hi Richard, To play the devil's advocate... Certainly humanist developers aim to remove the barriers that technology might place between users and content. However, difficulty arises when determining what constitutes 'technical' literacy. This could range from 'What's a link' through to 'How do I increase/decrease text size'. Even many of the 'hooks' put into content markup to make it more accessible are not used by a screen reader unless the user customises the behaviour of the software (reading title attributes for one). The issue of determining prior (technical) knowledge is one of those bug-bears like browser statistics. Even though we'd like to, it's problematic to generalise. On the other hand, adding an introduction to every webpage on how to use the web is equally untenable. Incidentally, does anyone know of a formal public-school curriculum that covers using the web? Such a document/documents might provide an insight as to how we (as in society-at-large) currently qualify 'technical literacy'. I think it's important to NOT expect users to know how to do this or even be vaguely technically literate. Doctors, for example, shouldn't have to be IT experts. They fix people not machines. It's simply not their job or responsibility to be forced to learn the HUGE amount of stuff that as developers we've crammed into our head. This doesn't mean they should be penaliseed and not allowed to see web sites or interact as freely on the web as the rest of us. -- Andy Kirkwood | Creative Director Motive | web.design.integrity http://www.motive.co.nz ph: (04) 3 800 800 fx: (04) 970 9693 mob: 021 369 693 93 Rintoul St, Newtown PO Box 7150, Wellington South, New Zealand ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
Good point, Andy. However, I think there actually *is* a benchmark we can use as a guide to work from in terms of the user's technical ability. I'd start by looking at 'default behaviour'. The ability to operate a machine/software using ONLY its default settings. For the web, this would be a level above What is a Link and below 'How do I increase/decrease text size. Assuming users know what's on the context menu is above the scope of this (that's why so many sites put instructions like right-click and select 'save target as' in their pages). Assuming the User knows how to clear their cache or set their Home Page is also above this level, as this requires the user to go into the 'options' available for the software. The second they start to get 'under the hood' of the software is when they start to become more advanced. You're example of screen readers' users setting the Title attribute is not so much a fault in page design or standards but rather (at best) a mis-calculation by the software developers on the importance of one of their features or (at worst) a dramatic over-site in terms of standards support by the software developers. Hope I'm making sense, here and I know it's a slippery slope, but hey ... That's why they pay us the big bucks, right? .. Right? Anyone? R :oP - Original Message - From: Andy Kirkwood | Motive [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites Hi Richard, To play the devil's advocate... Certainly humanist developers aim to remove the barriers that technology might place between users and content. However, difficulty arises when determining what constitutes 'technical' literacy. This could range from 'What's a link' through to 'How do I increase/decrease text size'. Even many of the 'hooks' put into content markup to make it more accessible are not used by a screen reader unless the user customises the behaviour of the software (reading title attributes for one). The issue of determining prior (technical) knowledge is one of those bug-bears like browser statistics. Even though we'd like to, it's problematic to generalise. On the other hand, adding an introduction to every webpage on how to use the web is equally untenable. Incidentally, does anyone know of a formal public-school curriculum that covers using the web? Such a document/documents might provide an insight as to how we (as in society-at-large) currently qualify 'technical literacy'. I think it's important to NOT expect users to know how to do this or even be vaguely technically literate. Doctors, for example, shouldn't have to be IT experts. They fix people not machines. It's simply not their job or responsibility to be forced to learn the HUGE amount of stuff that as developers we've crammed into our head. This doesn't mean they should be penaliseed and not allowed to see web sites or interact as freely on the web as the rest of us. -- Andy Kirkwood | Creative Director Motive | web.design.integrity http://www.motive.co.nz ph: (04) 3 800 800 fx: (04) 970 9693 mob: 021 369 693 93 Rintoul St, Newtown PO Box 7150, Wellington South, New Zealand ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] {WSG] What's the best way to display links?
Thanks Patrick, you're confirmed my suspicions ;)
Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
Quoting Andy Kirkwood | Motive [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Certainly humanist developers aim to remove the barriers that technology might place between users and content... Humanism has nothing to do with this - what if you're a Buddhist developer? Seriously, in a valid attempt to create a profession, let's not obscure 'making websites available to the majority of clients at whom those sites are aimed' by dropping in inappropriate terms. However, difficulty arises when determining what constitutes 'technical' literacy Wood for the trees stuff. Forget technical 'literacy' (the literacy element being key) concentrate on what your market requires. Example (A) A site designed for graphic designers will benefit from useful Flash elements that are viewable on Macintoshes. Example (B) A site designed for General Practitioners seeking advice on the latest anti-biotic requires IE functionality with fast return on text searches via good database support. Example (C) A site designed for 'yoof' orientated marketing will benefit from audio in downloadable MP3 format, streamable video; multiple entry points, fast, auditable add-banner serving, forums and e-commerce functionality. Example (D) A site designed for web developers will benefit from areas specific to different browsers, server technologies, scripting languages and other heavily geekoid stuff. There is no one magic bullet to destroy all possible flaws. Nor is there a panacea to please all users. Accessibility/usability is specific to the target audience of the site that you are designing. Let's not lose the main focus here by attempting to create a web-dev equivalent of the Grand Unifying Theory. Diversity is also important when appropriate. Of course, IMHO... Tim Sub-Marxian Historical Materialist Developer :-) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
where is that damn unsubscribe button! -Original Message- From: Tim Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 31 October 2005 1:49 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites Quoting Andy Kirkwood | Motive [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Certainly humanist developers aim to remove the barriers that technology might place between users and content... Humanism has nothing to do with this - what if you're a Buddhist developer? Seriously, in a valid attempt to create a profession, let's not obscure 'making websites available to the majority of clients at whom those sites are aimed' by dropping in inappropriate terms. However, difficulty arises when determining what constitutes 'technical' literacy Wood for the trees stuff. Forget technical 'literacy' (the literacy element being key) concentrate on what your market requires. Example (A) A site designed for graphic designers will benefit from useful Flash elements that are viewable on Macintoshes. Example (B) A site designed for General Practitioners seeking advice on the latest anti-biotic requires IE functionality with fast return on text searches via good database support. Example (C) A site designed for 'yoof' orientated marketing will benefit from audio in downloadable MP3 format, streamable video; multiple entry points, fast, auditable add-banner serving, forums and e-commerce functionality. Example (D) A site designed for web developers will benefit from areas specific to different browsers, server technologies, scripting languages and other heavily geekoid stuff. There is no one magic bullet to destroy all possible flaws. Nor is there a panacea to please all users. Accessibility/usability is specific to the target audience of the site that you are designing. Let's not lose the main focus here by attempting to create a web-dev equivalent of the Grand Unifying Theory. Diversity is also important when appropriate. Of course, IMHO... Tim Sub-Marxian Historical Materialist Developer :-) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
Craig Rippon wrote: where is that damn unsubscribe button! URI: http://webstandardsgroup.org/ you'll need to log in with your email and pwd and click the unsubscribe link... and shame on you for swearing. :-) also, to the list moms, should there be a link directly to the unsubscribe section in the WSG email footer? it would probably need a log in form b/f giving you the unsubscribe button of course. ;) ciao, Z -- Zulema Ortiz web designer email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] website : http://zoblue.com/ weblog : http://blog.zoblue.com/ browser : http://getfirefox.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
On 10/31/05, Zulema [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: also, to the list moms, should there be a link directly to the unsubscribe section in the WSG email footer? it would probably need a log in form b/f giving you the unsubscribe button of course. ;) Most lists have an [EMAIL PROTECTED] address you can send a blank message to unsubscribe to. Maybe that would suffice for the footer, if such a thing is possible with whatever software the listserv is using? -- Joshua Street http://www.joahua.com/ +61 (0) 425 808 469 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Lakshmi Satyanarayana/ESS/NSW_AG is out of the office.
I will be out of the office starting 31/10/2005 and will not return until 02/11/2005. For Infolink, Lawlink or any other website Queries/Support please contact Graeme Melham on 92287827, alternatively email [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, copy or distribute this communication. If you have received this message in error please delete the email and notify the sender. Web Site http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
Richard Czeiger wrote: Hope I'm making sense, here and I know it's a slippery slope, but hey ... That's why they pay us the big bucks, right? .. Right? Anyone? You make money at this??? What a concept!! ;-) mark ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
Hope I'm making sense, here and I know it's a slippery slope, but hey ... That's why they pay us the big bucks, right? .. Right? Anyone? You make money at this??? What a concept!! ;-) That's true... I want in on these big bucks :-) -- -- C Montoya rdpdesign.com ... liquid.rdpdesign.com ... montoya.rdpdesign.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Unstyling named anchors
Hiya, When using XHTML strict named anchors need to surround some link text, yes? Does anyone have a standard approach to unstyling named anchors I this case which will work cross-browser? I'd tinkered with a[name]:hover but I'm loathe to create a style for this. I don't think hiding them is th eoption either. Thanks. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Allsopp Sent: Thursday, 18 August 2005 2:11 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Semantic Calendar Hi, Check out the hcalendar microformat http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar It's based on the widely used iCalender format from the IEEE. Two of the founders of Microformats, Tantek Celik and Eric Meyer are speaking at Web Essentials in Sydney at the end of September. http://we05.com Tantek in particular will be looking a the issues of semantics in detail john On 18/08/2005, at 1:20 PM, Scott Swabey ((Lafinboy Productions)) wrote: G'day all I have been tinkering with a calendar generation script (PHP if relevant), and have developed two versions. One uses a semantically correct table for layout, the other uses ordered lists to hold and layout the day names and month dates. After working on this for a while and thinking about it for wa too long I am faced with the quandary - which of the two versions is _more_ semantically correct? Does a calendar (single month) qualify as tabular data, are ordered lists a better fit, or should I be looking at another option? Any feedback/opinions would be appreciated. Regards Scott Swabey Lafinboy Productions www.lafinboy.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support forum :: http://support.westciv.com blog :: dog or higher :: http://blogs.westciv.com/dog_or_higher Web Essentials web development conference http://we05.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] is this a tabular data?
On 30 Oct 2005, at 11:43 PM, Jad Madi wrote: I'm not sure if i'm going to use defining trick, what I know about standards markup and symantic, is to use the tag by it's meaning rather than by How it look like, If that is so, can you do any better with your class names than 'pinktext' and 'bold'? What if it gets changed to green, italic text? N ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] is this a tabular data?
if it's a must to use th then I have to sacrifice layout by using Patrick's code or sacrifice semantic by using dl ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Unstyling named anchors
How have you applied your link styles?
a { ... }
Or
a:link, a:visited { ... }
If you style links without specifying the :link pseudo-class, then you
select all anchors - whether or not the href attribute is present.
Hope that solves the problem.
Cheers,
Damien
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Paul Noone
Sent: Monday, 31 October 2005 4:04 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Unstyling named anchors
Hiya,
When using XHTML strict named anchors need to surround some link text, yes?
Does anyone have a standard approach to unstyling named anchors I this case
which will work cross-browser?
I'd tinkered with a[name]:hover but I'm loathe to create a style for this. I
don't think hiding them is th eoption either.
Thanks.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of John Allsopp
Sent: Thursday, 18 August 2005 2:11 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Semantic Calendar
Hi,
Check out the hcalendar microformat
http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar
It's based on the widely used iCalender format from the IEEE.
Two of the founders of Microformats, Tantek Celik and Eric Meyer are
speaking at Web Essentials in Sydney at the end of September.
http://we05.com
Tantek in particular will be looking a the issues of semantics in detail
john
On 18/08/2005, at 1:20 PM, Scott Swabey ((Lafinboy Productions)) wrote:
G'day all
I have been tinkering with a calendar generation script (PHP if
relevant), and have developed two versions. One uses a semantically
correct table for layout, the other uses ordered lists to hold and
layout the day names and month dates. After working on this for a
while and thinking about it for wa too long I am faced with the
quandary - which of the two versions is _more_ semantically correct?
Does a calendar (single month) qualify as tabular data, are ordered
lists a better fit, or should I be looking at another option?
Any feedback/opinions would be appreciated.
Regards
Scott Swabey
Lafinboy Productions
www.lafinboy.com
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
John Allsopp
style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support forum
:: http://support.westciv.com blog :: dog or higher ::
http://blogs.westciv.com/dog_or_higher
Web Essentials web development conference http://we05.com
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
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for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Unstyling named anchors
On 10/31/05, Paul Noone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone have a standard approach to unstyling named anchors I this case which will work cross-browser? How about some Javascript? I don't really know what I'm doing with that beast, but maybe something like document.getElementsByName(*); and then do this.style.display=none; ? I doubt wildcards work as simply as that, though, if at all... ...or am I missing what you're trying to do here? (If you're not proficient in Javascript... ignore me, I don't know what I'm talking about, and it takes hours for me to make any script do what I need it to do!) Hope this isn't too far off the mark... Josh -- Joshua Street http://www.joahua.com/ +61 (0) 425 808 469 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] is this a tabular data?
It's just that you lose any semantic value in using a table without the th. Using the table with th currently limits your layout options. Using dl means you can retain a bit of semantic meaning (by linking the name, icon and info at least) and get your styling right. This thread is getting a bit like a SimpleQuiz http://www.simplebits.com/bits/simplequiz/ :-) It's going to be your choice as to the amount of semantic meaning you wish to retain and the flexibility of your styling options... at least until a few more browsers support some of the more advanced 'display' options in CSS. Regards, Jachin On 10/31/05, Jad Madi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if it's a must to use th then I have to sacrifice layout by using Patrick's code or sacrifice semantic by using dl ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
