[WSG] Naked metadata

2005-11-05 Thread Jonathan O'Donnell

Hi WSG'ers

After seeing Sarah's post about CSS for titles, I thought that people 
might be interested in this idea.  It's a half baked idea. If you have 
any comments or suggestions, I would love to hear them.


Apologies for those who have already seen this on the DC-General list.

** The problem **
People updating Web pages often doesn't update the metadata in the 
header.


** The solution **
Tag appropriate Web data with id attributes. Point to the data from the 
appropriate metadata field in the header.


** Example **
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd;
html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml;
head
titleNaked Metadata/title
meta name=DC.title content=#title /
meta name=DC.creator content=#creator /
meta name=DC.creator content=#rights /
/head
body
h1 id=titleNaked Metadata/h1
h2 id=creatorJonathan O'Donnell/h2
	p id=rightshttp://purl.nla.gov.au/net/jod/tutorial/metadata.html 
copy; Jonathan O'Donnell 23 October 2005/p

/body
/html

** Background **

At DC-ANZ 2005, Eve Young and Baden Hughes made the point that people 
updating Web pages often don't update the metadata. One of of the 
problems that they talked about was that metadata in the header is 
essentially invisible to people editing the page (when, for example, 
using some wysiwyg editors).


In general, data (including metadata) should be stored in one place 
only. This prevents drift: if it is only stored in one place, it can 
only be updated in that place.


Often, the information that we want to store as metadata already 
appears in the Web page.  Examples include the title, description 
(especially as opening paragraph) and the author's name.  In footers, 
we often find rights information, the URL, and date information.


If this information already exists in the data, and we replicate it in 
the metadata, there is the danger of drift. Perhaps pointing to the 
data from the metadata fields is a way of preventing drift, and 
ensuring that the metadata is as up-to-date as the data.


** Method **

In html (including xhtml), one way of doing this is to use id 
attributes. Many Web developers use these already to style particular 
aspects of a Web site.  They can also be used as a target anchor for 
hypertext links

For example, if you use this tag:
p id=rightscopy; Jonathan 2005/p
in the page:
http://example.net/foo.html
Then the URL
http://example.net/foo.html#rights
will point to that paragraph.

** Advantages **
+   Metadata sits with the data.
+   As data is updated, the metadata continues to be current.

** Disadvantages **
+   id attributes must be unique within a Web page.

--
Jonathan O'Donnell
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://purl.nla.gov.au/net/jod
+61 4 2575 5829

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[WSG] List server commands

2005-11-05 Thread Peter Firminger
Folks,

Any of you that remember when this list server took commands via email,
please forget it ever happened.

The only way to edit your setting is to log in and set them on the website.

Even if you do manage to get a command to work, the next time the system
writes the subscription file from the member database (every time someone
joins, leaves or edits their settings), it will revert to your membership
settings.

Go to http://webstandardsgroup.org/manage/login_edit.cfm and use your email
address and password to log in and select the lists and list-modes you
require. If you don't remember your password, use the Forgot Password?
form to retrieve it. Make sure you use the exact email address you initially
subscribed with, this may be different to the one the lists are sent to.

Please don't ask us to do it for you, it's a self-serve system. If you do
have trouble, the address to ask for help is [EMAIL PROTECTED], not the list
address.

Peter


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Re: [WSG] Naked metadata

2005-11-05 Thread Patrick H. Lauke

Jonathan O'Donnell wrote:


meta name=DC.title content=#title /
meta name=DC.creator content=#creator /
meta name=DC.creator content=#rights /


I'm not a DC expert, but I believe that that's not a valid way to go 
about it. When you embed DC information via meta elements, content needs 
to contain the actual value, not a reference to another location.
When the expected value itself is a URI, you should use link 
elements...but even that doesn't apply in this scenario, as it's usually 
reserved for things like DC.relation


Have a read through http://dublincore.org/documents/dcq-html/

Now, a different approach may be to process all pages server side on a 
regular basis to fill in the correct DC.title etc meta elements based on 
the content of the actual page in case they've been left empty, which 
could probably be achieved with a single XSL transformation or similar.



--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__
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RE: [WSG] Page Check: www.qm-consulting.co.uk/test/indextest

2005-11-05 Thread kvnmcwebn



sites need to be aesthetically pleasing as well as accessible and CSS 
and DOM scripting gives us more than enough power to do 
both.

agreed, 
It 
would be hard to get customer sign off on such adesign, 

even 
soits quick loading and accessible. 


Perhaps you could sit down with a graphic designer to work more 
visual elements into your site and improve the overall look and 
feel?

good 
idea:
another option is to look for pre-designedtemplates(cringe)-free or 
otherwise. 

-kvnmcwebn



Re: [WSG] Naked metadata

2005-11-05 Thread Andy Kirkwood|Motive
Hi Jonathan,

I second Patrick's comment that 'pointing' the DC records to content on the 
page is not the solution.

Although, from a maintenance perspective, this may appear to be a work-around 
for not completing the metadata records (questionable), metadata harvesting 
tools are unlikely to populate the content attribute of the meta element with 
content from the webpage. In other words, the metadata records cease to have 
value as metadata.

Consider educating content authors or moving to a CMS. For example, in a CMS, a 
rule could be created that require a minimum set of metadata records to be 
completed before content can be published.

If using a static system, then adding a placeholder for metadata content to 
template pages may be a solution, e.g.
   meta name=DC.title content=[tba] /
   meta name=DC.creator content=[tba] /

(The author would then search the source code for the string '[tba]' as part of 
the publishing protocol to remind them to complete the md records.)


** The problem **
People updating Web pages often doesn't update the metadata in the header.

** The solution **
Tag appropriate Web data with id attributes. Point to the data from the 
appropriate metadata field in the header.

Best regards,

-- 
Andy Kirkwood | Creative Director

Motive | web.design.integrity
http://www.motive.co.nz
ph: (04) 3 800 800  fx: (04) 970 9693
mob: 021 369 693
93 Rintoul St, Newtown
PO Box 7150, Wellington South, New Zealand
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Re: [WSG] css title styles

2005-11-05 Thread Andy Kirkwood|Motive
Hi Sarah,

I was just looking for a way to give the user immediate feedback about
each reference, and thought the title may be useful.

The problem with linking back and forth is that there are *so* many
references on each page, sometimes two or three to each quote, so it
gets a bit messy.

Perhaps this is more of a content consideration, i.e. that inline references 
are supplementary to the central narrative?

If the reader is *required* to check each reference to understand the author's 
intended meaning/understanding, it would suggest that the content could do with 
another draft ; ).

If re-written and truncated to suit it's use as a short-hand identification of 
the origins of the opinion/quotation, the title attribute on a source anchor 
(that links to the full reference) would appear to be a good compromise. 
Although a deviation from strict academic referencing practice, consider moving 
the title of the work to the front of the attribute value:

a href=#ref1 title=The mode of action of lipid-soluble antioxidants in 
biological membranes. Relationship between the effects of ubiquinol and vitamin 
E as inhibitors of lipid peroxidation in submitochondrial particles., Ernster 
L, Forsmark P amp; Nordenbrand K. (1992)sup[1]/sup/a

It might even be appropriate to omit all other details (year, author(s), 
publisher, etc.) and strip out the strapline.

a href=#ref1 title=The mode of action of lipid-soluble antioxidants in 
biological membranes.sup[1]/sup/a

Even if using the JavaScript method, editing and truncating the reference will 
likely suit it better to its intended purpose.

Rationale:
- the first few words of the title are most likely to be read
- the first few words differentiate one reference from another
- (perhaps subject to content-field), the title of the work provides more 
*immediate* context
- the title text is likely to be truncated
- the author's name is often referenced inline, e.g.  (Ernster L, Forsmark P  
Nordenbrand K, 1992) is an comparable conventional short-form reference.
- if content deals with a specialised topic area, the author's name(s) are 
likely to be repeated and it won't be possible to distinguish between different 
works by the same author(s)
-in general, web-writing prioritises content over authorship, for example, link 
text that describes the destination content tends to be more useful/usable than 
link text that identifies the destination content author.

Additional considerations:
- indicating to the reader (visually or otherwise) that the source anchor can 
provide an expanded reference (a link 'says', click-me rather than hover 
over me for a couple of seconds, then click me)
-using an unmodified superscript element may make it difficult to hover or 
click the reference link (too small a target)

Additional approaches to footnotes and endnotes:  
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www/fn.html 

Best regards,

-- 
Andy Kirkwood | Creative Director

Motive | web.design.integrity
http://www.motive.co.nz
ph: (04) 3 800 800  fx: (04) 970 9693
mob: 021 369 693
93 Rintoul St, Newtown
PO Box 7150, Wellington South, New Zealand
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[WSG] Problem in firefox

2005-11-05 Thread Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox
Title: Message



I have a problem in 
firefox where it displays a white area where there should not be 
one.

http://www.ozblackberry.com/index.cfm 
is fine, simply because I put a 1px white border around the #content_text, but 
if I remove that and look at http://www.ozblackberry.com/index2.cfmthere 
is a white space and I have no idea where it is coming from.

http://www.ozblackberry.com/_resource/style/default.css

Also, I am still 
having troubles with my ol list, I set ol to 37px height, and I set 
li to 30px height, but no matter what I set the height for li 
to, it won't display. I am about to do away with list and just use floating 
divs.

Any help would be 
appreciated.

Taco Fleur - CEOPacific Fox http://www.pacificfox.com.au an 
industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 
** Web Design and Development 

** SMS Solutions, including 
developer API
** Domain Registration, .COM for as 
low as AUSD$15 a year, .COM.AU for AUSD$50 two years!
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integration
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payments online now!



Re: [WSG] Problem in firefox

2005-11-05 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun

Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox wrote:
I have a problem in firefox where it displays a white area where 
there should not be one.


http://www.ozblackberry.com/index.cfm is fine, simply because I put a
 1px white border around the #content_text, but if I remove that and 
look at http://www.ozblackberry.com/index2.cfm there is a white space

 and I have no idea where it is coming from.


Collapsing margins[1], and Firefox, Opera and other good browsers are
doing it right, regardless of how bad it looks.

Either set top and bottom margins to zero on paragraphs inside
#content_text, or put a narrow border or padding on #content_text.

You can also define space between paragraphs with paddings and zero
out margins, and avoid the problem that way.

Georg

[1]http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/box.html#collapsing-margins
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
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[WSG] Safari, select, and option attributes.

2005-11-05 Thread ivanovitch
Apologies if this has been discussed before, but is it my bad coding,
or does Safari (v2.02, latest build) not honour any select styles?

Further, is there a way to dictate how option can display styled
font attributes across all CSS-compliant browsers? My aim is to make
the drop-down in the same style as the rest of the page, but I'm
having limited success. Firefox and IE have no problems, on WinXP and
OS X (though IE on OS X does odd things when options are selected).

TIps? Suggestions? Am I going the wrong way here?
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Re: [WSG] Naked metadata

2005-11-05 Thread Geoff Deering

Jonathan O'Donnell wrote:


Hi WSG'ers

In general, data (including metadata) should be stored in one place 
only. This prevents drift: if it is only stored in one place, it can 
only be updated in that place.


Often, the information that we want to store as metadata already 
appears in the Web page.  Examples include the title, description 
(especially as opening paragraph) and the author's name.  In footers, 
we often find rights information, the URL, and date information.


If this information already exists in the data, and we replicate it in 
the metadata, there is the danger of drift. Perhaps pointing to the 
data from the metadata fields is a way of preventing drift, and 
ensuring that the metadata is as up-to-date as the data.


** Method **



Hi Jonathan,

Given what you have said here, and what I would expect to see in serious 
authoring tools and CMSs, I think this area is generally neglected in 
most publishing tools (last time I looked).


Quit a few CMS's say that they are DC compliant, but as you mentioned, 
do they actually store the data in one place, and not in the web pages?  
Is it part of the work flow and version control of the documents?  I 
don't think so.  I'd be glad if anyone can point me to a product that 
does address this need.


For a CMS to address this properly, it needs to have incorporated a 
normalised schema based on DC into it's database.  This was all the 
pages published from this system can incorporate the various metadata as 
well as alt and longdesc for images.


Many organisations have legal requirements where they require snapshots 
of published data from any given time.  A publishing system based on DC 
not only allows this features, but allow a complete analysis of all the 
subcomponents of a document and the various contributors.


That also leads to problems with document management systems that manage 
their meta data from properties within the documents and network 
environment variables.


Last time I tried to extract metadata from MS Word, using Perl and 
Python, I could only get the standard set of properties, any data in 
custom properties was unretrievable (at least by me).  I don't know what 
OO or the latest MS Office offers.


But I don't think asking users to maintain this data will work, unless 
they are librarians.  I think that it has to be as automated and as 
transparent to the user as possible, because most users are just not 
interested in this level of site QA, unless it is an important component 
of the job.


Regards
Geoff Deering
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RE: [WSG] Problem in firefox

2005-11-05 Thread Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox
Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

I'm a bit uneasy about this. I don't want a border, and I certainly don't
want 0 margin on my paragraph elements, isn't there another solution?

Thanks,

Taco Fleur - CEO
Pacific Fox http://www.pacificfox.com.au 
an industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 …

** Web Design and Development 
** SMS Solutions, including developer API
** Domain Registration, .COM for as low as AUSD$15 a year, .COM.AU for
AUSD$50 two years!
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 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gunlaug Sørtun
 Sent: Sunday, 6 November 2005 11:44 AM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Problem in firefox
 
 
 Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox wrote:
  I have a problem in firefox where it displays a white area where
  there should not be one.
  
  http://www.ozblackberry.com/index.cfm is fine, simply 
 because I put a  
  1px white border around the #content_text, but if I remove that and 
  look at http://www.ozblackberry.com/index2.cfm there is a 
 white space  
  and I have no idea where it is coming from.
 
 Collapsing margins[1], and Firefox, Opera and other good 
 browsers are doing it right, regardless of how bad it looks.
 
 Either set top and bottom margins to zero on paragraphs 
 inside #content_text, or put a narrow border or padding on 
 #content_text.
 
 You can also define space between paragraphs with paddings 
 and zero out margins, and avoid the problem that way.
 
   Georg
 
 [1]http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/box.html#collapsing-margins
 -- 
 http://www.gunlaug.no
 **
 The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
 
  See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
  for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
 **
 
 


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RE: [WSG] Problem in firefox

2005-11-05 Thread Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox
OK, so I added a border at the top of 1px and added a negative margin of
1px, this seems to solve it, thanks.

Any idea on the other problem with the ol list?

thanks

Taco Fleur - CEO
Pacific Fox http://www.pacificfox.com.au 
an industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 …

** Web Design and Development 
** SMS Solutions, including developer API
** Domain Registration, .COM for as low as AUSD$15 a year, .COM.AU for
AUSD$50 two years!
** Seamless Merchant integration
** We endorse PayPal, accept payments online now!


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gunlaug Sørtun
 Sent: Sunday, 6 November 2005 11:44 AM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Problem in firefox
 
 
 Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox wrote:
  I have a problem in firefox where it displays a white area where
  there should not be one.
  
  http://www.ozblackberry.com/index.cfm is fine, simply 
 because I put a  
  1px white border around the #content_text, but if I remove that and 
  look at http://www.ozblackberry.com/index2.cfm there is a 
 white space  
  and I have no idea where it is coming from.
 
 Collapsing margins[1], and Firefox, Opera and other good 
 browsers are doing it right, regardless of how bad it looks.
 
 Either set top and bottom margins to zero on paragraphs 
 inside #content_text, or put a narrow border or padding on 
 #content_text.
 
 You can also define space between paragraphs with paddings 
 and zero out margins, and avoid the problem that way.
 
   Georg
 
 [1]http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/box.html#collapsing-margins
 -- 
 http://www.gunlaug.no
 **
 The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
 
  See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
  for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
 **
 
 


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Re: [WSG] Safari, select, and option attributes.

2005-11-05 Thread Philippe Wittenbergh


On 6 Nov 2005, at 10:54 am, ivanovitch wrote:


Apologies if this has been discussed before, but is it my bad coding,
or does Safari (v2.02, latest build) not honour any select styles?

Further, is there a way to dictate how option can display styled
font attributes across all CSS-compliant browsers? My aim is to make
the drop-down in the same style as the rest of the page, but I'm
having limited success. Firefox and IE have no problems, on WinXP and
OS X (though IE on OS X does odd things when options are selected).


Styling form widgets across browsers is notoriously difficult:
http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200410/ 
styling_even_more_form_controls/

(and from a usability perspective, not always the recommended option)

And no, Safari doesn't allow styling of the select and option, the  
same goes for Camino and iCab. Opera has a user option to disable  
author styling of form widgets (something I really like...).

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://emps.l-c-n.com/

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Re: [WSG] Problem in firefox

2005-11-05 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun

Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox wrote:
I'm a bit uneasy about this. I don't want a border, and I certainly 
don't want 0 margin on my paragraph elements, isn't there another 
solution?


As mentioned earlier...
#content_text {padding: 1px 0;}
...will solve it.

Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [WSG] Safari, select, and option attributes.

2005-11-05 Thread ivanovitch
Thanks, Philippe - I was hoping that I'd hear otherwise. I'm not
attempting to make radical changes to the user interface: just aiming
for consistency. Interesting that certain widgets are off-limits in
this sense, yet submit can be OS-built, text, or image. I had
considered using dropdown menu scripting for this, but sense massive
overkill (and I don't like javascript unless absolutely needed).

Ta.

On 06/11/05, Philippe Wittenbergh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 6 Nov 2005, at 10:54 am, ivanovitch wrote:

  Apologies if this has been discussed before, but is it my bad coding,
  or does Safari (v2.02, latest build) not honour any select styles?
 
  Further, is there a way to dictate how option can display styled
  font attributes across all CSS-compliant browsers? My aim is to make
  the drop-down in the same style as the rest of the page, but I'm
  having limited success. Firefox and IE have no problems, on WinXP and
  OS X (though IE on OS X does odd things when options are selected).

 Styling form widgets across browsers is notoriously difficult:
 http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200410/
 styling_even_more_form_controls/
 (and from a usability perspective, not always the recommended option)

 And no, Safari doesn't allow styling of the select and option, the
 same goes for Camino and iCab. Opera has a user option to disable
 author styling of form widgets (something I really like...).
 Philippe
 ---
 Philippe Wittenbergh
 http://emps.l-c-n.com/

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  See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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 **


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Re: [WSG] css title styles

2005-11-05 Thread Sarah Peeke (XERT)
Hi Andy

Thank you for your input.

Unfortunately the exact wording of the content (in this client's case)
is legally required, and so the possibility of editing it, or the
references, in any way is out of the question.

I like the idea of linking back to the content once the reader has read
the relevant footnote, but there are many instances when more than one
footnote is attributed to a portion of the content (see example below).
Also, the same footnote reference is referred to in different portions
of the content.

I also agree that a link says click me rather than hover over me for
a few seconds.

I guess I might just need to retain the sup[1]/sup with either a
link to the reference in the footer (and *no* corresponding return
link), or *no* link at all.

Below is an example where there are two references to a sentence:

---

pThere may be up to a 40% decline in CoQ10 blood levels and this
deficiency may lead to decline in ejection fraction and functional
status. Deficiency can be prevented by co-administration of 100 mg/day
of CoQ10 leading to enhanced benefit through reduced oxidation of LDL
cholesterol. sup[8]/sup, sup[17]/sup/p

---

Best regards
Sarah
-- 
XERT Communications
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
office: +61 2 4782 3104
mobile: 0438 017 416

http://www.xert.com.au/
web development : digital imaging : dvd production
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Re: [WSG] css title styles

2005-11-05 Thread Bert Doorn

G'day


I like the idea of linking back to the content once the reader has read
the relevant footnote, but there are many instances when more than one
footnote is attributed to a portion of the content (see example below).
Also, the same footnote reference is referred to in different portions
of the content.


One option is to use some javascript to bring up a pop up 
message (hidden or dynamically built div, at the mouse location) 
that retrieves content from the relevant bookmark/footnote.


I did something like this in 2002, although it was IE specific - 
using window.createPopup().  It doesn't work in other browsers 
(wasn't much of a consideration for me in 2002) but could 
probably be amended to work in other browsers.


See http://www.klikbooks.com/Communication.html for an example. 
Look for a link with the text PECS and click on it.  Perhaps a 
variation of this method (so you get a similar effect in other 
browsers) would be an option?


Yes, I used a table for layout back in 2002.

Regards
--
Bert Doorn, Better Web Design
http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/
Fast-loading, user-friendly websites

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Re: [WSG] css title styles

2005-11-05 Thread Andy Kirkwood|Motive
Hi Sarah,

Unfortunately the exact wording of the content (in this client's case)
is legally required, and so the possibility of editing it, or the
references, in any way is out of the question.

Moving the title of the reference to the fore of the title attribute value 
wouldn't be changing the reference (as it is shown in the endnotes), but 
representing it in a medium-appropriate manner? If the title attribute is too 
long it will be truncated anyway. It could be perceived that there's a similar 
issue of changing the content when adding alt attributes or long descriptions 
to images, in-page anchors, etc.

It may come down to the relationship with the client, but if the protocol you 
recommend for implementing references on the website is formalised, then 
perhaps using the title attribute would be seen as a adding-value-to rather 
than 'changing' the reference? The client's web style guide would then be 
updated to ensure a consistent approach is taken to marking-up future documents 
(and get the legal team back on board).

You could illustrate the issue of medium-specificity with how a search engine 
results page may excerpt a portion of a document (without the complete 
reference text).

I like the idea of linking back to the content once the reader has read
the relevant footnote, but there are many instances when more than one
footnote is attributed to a portion of the content (see example below).
Also, the same footnote reference is referred to in different portions
of the content.

The example you've provide isn't too bad, you could create separate links for 
each reference marker (a[1]/aa[2]/a). What's more problematic is the 
second situation you've identified where a single reference is linked to 
*twice* within the same document, e.g.

pThis paragraph is at the top of the document [1]/p
p/p
pThis one is further down the page, but also references the same document 
[1]/p

(Clarifying for the benefit of the avid reader.)

Making clear to the user which of the two reference markers the user would jump 
back to, would perhaps be more trouble than it's worth.

Looks like linking the reference back to the reference mark could be out then. 
Although the one-way system might not be too bad--the reader can still get a 
quick sense from the title attribute as to what the reference is to, and then 
read the full reference by clicking the link.

I'm not against the JavaScript Sweet Titles option posted, but agree with the 
spirit of the usability observation on the entry that an overly-long tooltip 
may 'feel' unwieldy or provide more detail than might be expected/required from 
a short reference.

Let me know the path you end up taking. As usual, there's no 'silver bullet'...

Best regards,

-- 
Andy Kirkwood | Creative Director

Motive | web.design.integrity
http://www.motive.co.nz
ph: (04) 3 800 800  fx: (04) 970 9693
mob: 021 369 693
93 Rintoul St, Newtown
PO Box 7150, Wellington South, New Zealand
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[WSG] List Headers?

2005-11-05 Thread Christian Montoya
Hello all. I was thinking about a semantic way to do the following with a list:

= header
- item 1
- item 2
- item 3

Currently I do this:

h1header/h1
ul
li.../li
/ul

This doesn't make it clear that the header refers to the list, though.

What I would like to do is have a list header, much like tables have
table headers.

I wrote more about this here:
http://montoya.rdpdesign.com/2005/11/06/list-headers-an-idea/

But what it basically boils down to is having a tag I call list
header so you can do:

ul
lhheader/lh
liitem 1/li
...
/ul

I think it would be ultimately semantic, since it's very clear that
the list header belongs with the list. I don't know much about
proposing new tags, though. Will lists ever have a tag like this?
Could it be proposed for XHTML 2.0? Or does this bring up the same
problems as with proposing any other new tags?

Would we possibly do this:

h1 rel=list_stuffheader/h1
ul title=list_stuff
li.../li
/ul

??

--
--
C Montoya
rdpdesign.com ... liquid.rdpdesign.com ... montoya.rdpdesign.com
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