Re: [WSG] CAPS in stylesheets

2006-03-13 Thread Philippe Wittenbergh


On Mar 13, 2006, at 5:14 PM, John Wells wrote:


Can we get a summary of this CAPS lesson?  Are we saying that:

- ONLY when serving XHTML as application/xhtml+xml, stylesheet
selectors must be all lowercase.

?


Some browsers are sensitive to case when XHTML is served as text/ 
html. iCab comes to mind.


Having said that, I'm a bit confused.  I wish I could remember where I
read this, but I thought that *technically* (that's how I remember it
being phrased) stylesheet selectors should not contain characters
other than alphanumeric (and must start with a letter).  Well once I
read that, I moved all of my selector naming to camelCaps...so now I'm
feeling squeezed.  In (properly served) XHTML can I use underscores to
separate my words?  I strive to make my code as readable as possible
(from CSS to PHP), so naming conventions are a bit of a sticking
point.

Why not ask the source ?
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/syndata.html#q6

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://emps.l-c-n.com



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Re: [WSG] (Opera) CSS print style problem with image

2006-03-13 Thread 郑玉萍


On Mar 12, 2006, at 8:56 PM, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:



A solution is to move your image of screen for screen display (like  
img {position:absolute; left: -1px}) instead of using  
{display:none}.

I once posted an article about this:
http://emps.l-c-n.com/articles/52/print-media-oddity


Philippe, thank you so much for the cure. The image prints now. It's  
been over two years since you wrote the article, so Opera isn't  
considered this a bug?


Greatly appreciated!

tee


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[WSG] Usability issue with form help

2006-03-13 Thread leenath1

Hi all,

I'm hoping to get some feedback from people regarding a solution to a 
usability issue. I work for a large organisation and we have very 
large/detailed processing required. Because the applications we develop are 
very detailed and change dynamically depending upon the current input, 
context sensitive help becomes very important.


I have quickly thrown together an example of what Im talk about...

http://users.bigpond.net.au/leenath/form/forms-example.htm

The issue we face is that users are frustrated with having to tab through 
the help icons all the time. Users get into the habbit of tabbing twice (to 
go past the help and get to the next input field), but sometimes a help item 
wont exist, meaning the user accidentally tabs past the next input feild. 
Users say they want the help, because it comes in handy frequently, 
especially as the organisation is so huge and complex that they could never 
remember exactly what every input feild is about.


So, here is what feeback Im looking for - How can we keep context sensitive 
help available for each input feild that requires it but potentially ignore 
it in a tabbing sequence? However, help must also be accessible (think about 
screen readers) and available via keyboard if they need to select it. It 
seems like a catch 22 to me, but I figure someone out there may see a 
solution that I cannot.


I look forward to your feedback/ideas.

Cheers

Nathan 



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Re: [WSG] Re: uppercase CSS and XHTML

2006-03-13 Thread Lachlan Hunt

Designer wrote:
Incidentally, I would be interested in any browsers you know which won't 
support application/xhtml+xml, apart from IE of course.


http://www.w3.org/People/mimasa/test/xhtml/media-types/results

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http://lachy.id.au/

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Re:[WSG] Usability issue with form help

2006-03-13 Thread McIvor Lee
Hi Nathan,

First of all I don't see any reason why the Help icons need to be in the tab
order. You could set a more appropriate tab order in the markup that skips the
Help icons, whilst still providing other methods of accessing the help text.

For example, you could use a server-side scripting language to activate a
link/button at the top of the form. This link/button could be used to display
some or all of the context sensitive help as and when required. Although users
might have to skip through this option to get to the form, they only do it once,
and shouldn't have problems missing out the form fields. I can only see this
being a problem if this is a form that's filled in repeatedly and rapidly by
skilled users.

In terms of accessibility, the best thing would be to test these alternatives
out with a screen-reader or two to see how they'd handle them.

Regards

Lee

[EMAIL PROTECTED]



[EMAIL PROTECTED]  (13/03/2006  11:32):
Hi all,

I'm hoping to get some feedback from people regarding a solution to a
usability issue. I work for a large organisation and we have very
large/detailed processing required. Because the applications we develop are
very detailed and change dynamically depending upon the current input,
context sensitive help becomes very important.

I have quickly thrown together an example of what Im talk about...

http://users.bigpond.net.au/leenath/form/forms-example.htm

The issue we face is that users are frustrated with having to tab through
the help icons all the time. Users get into the habbit of tabbing twice (to
go past the help and get to the next input field), but sometimes a help item
wont exist, meaning the user accidentally tabs past the next input feild.
Users say they want the help, because it comes in handy frequently,
especially as the organisation is so huge and complex that they could never
remember exactly what every input feild is about.

So, here is what feeback Im looking for - How can we keep context sensitive
help available for each input feild that requires it but potentially ignore
it in a tabbing sequence? However, help must also be accessible (think about
screen readers) and available via keyboard if they need to select it. It
seems like a catch 22 to me, but I figure someone out there may see a
solution that I cannot.

I look forward to your feedback/ideas.

Cheers

Nathan


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[WSG] Standards compliant slideshow

2006-03-13 Thread Darren West
Hello,

Can anyone please recommend a standards compliant slideshow script
that uses a list of images within the HTML markup to dynamically
create the show.

Thanks

Daz
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Re: [WSG] Standards compliant slideshow

2006-03-13 Thread CHEN Benfeng
Hi,

Maybe you could take a look at HTML Sildy
(www.w3.org/2005/03/slideshow.html )?

-Ben

 Hello,

 Can anyone please recommend a standards compliant slideshow script that
 uses a list of images within the HTML markup to dynamically
 create the show.

 Thanks

 Daz
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Re: [WSG] Usability issue with form help

2006-03-13 Thread Joseph R. B. Taylor
Keep in mind too, that most tabbers are familiar with shift + tab as 
well for navigating backwards.


Should we assume that keyboard navigators can competently do this, or is 
that giving too much of an assumption?


Joseph R. B. Taylor
Sites by Joe, LLC
http://sitesbyjoe.com
(609)335-3076
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Terrence Wood wrote:


On 14 Mar 2006, at 12:32 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

How can we keep context sensitive help available for each input feild 
that requires it but potentially ignore it in a tabbing sequence?


Most of the items look reasonably self explanatory. I can't imagine why 
anyone would need help with title, first name, last name for example (I 
know the from is a sample ;-) ).


A few quick random ideas:

(1) en/disable help for the entire form with one click. Load help with 
ajax (since the help buttons are js), or reload the form.
(2) Create concise help that fits within the label e.g. card number (as 
it appears on your card), postcode (1234). Use spans to position it on 
the other side of the input if need be.
(3) Have looser requirements - do more processing server side so you 
don't have to specify formatting e.g. accept spaces, dashes, or not in 
credit card numbers.
(4) Improve consistency - provide help for every item so that 2 tabs 
always gets the next field.
(5) Use better labels that are descriptive and clear in themselves and 
don't require help.

(6) Provide help after the form that is always visible.
(7) provide a help key via js on a character you know won't be entered 
e.g.~
(8) Group items on your form better and provide a narrative paragraph 
for each fieldset.


kind regards
Terrence Wood.

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Re: [WSG] Standards compliant slideshow

2006-03-13 Thread Richard Stephenson
 Can anyone please recommend a standards compliant slideshow script that
 uses a list of images within the HTML markup to dynamically
 create the show.

http://slayeroffice.com/code/imageCrossFade/xfade2.html

--
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http://www.donkeymagic.co.uk
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Re: [WSG] Standards compliant slideshow

2006-03-13 Thread Darren West
Thats cool, thanks all, although I think I may have miss explained
myself - will simplify with links :)

Basically I am trying to setup pagination - here are the pages:

http://ta.rt-ms.net/teamengine/property.html
http://ta.rt-ms.net/teamengine/assets/js/media.js

And is the markup:

div id=photos class=media
 h2Photos/h2
 pImage 1 of 10/p
 ul
  lia id=previous href=Previous Image/a/li
  lia id=next href=Next Image/a/li
 /ul
 pimg id=placeholder src=assets/img/bss1931.jpg width=400
height=300 //p
 pClick to replace image above/p
 p id=gallery
  a href=assets/img/bss1931.jpgimg src=assets/img/bss1931T.jpg
width=160 height=120 //a
  a href=assets/img/bss1931A.jpgimg
src=assets/img/bss1931AT.jpg width=160 height=120 //a
  a href=assets/img/bss1931B.jpgimg
src=assets/img/bss1931BT.jpg width=160 height=120 //a
  a href=assets/img/bss1931C.jpgimg
src=assets/img/bss1931CT.jpg width=160 height=120 //a
  a href=assets/img/bss1931D.jpgimg
src=assets/img/bss1931DT.jpg width=160 height=120 //a
  a href=assets/img/bss1931E.jpgimg
src=assets/img/bss1931ET.jpg width=160 height=120 //a
 /p
 pa href=Back to top/a/p
/div

I want to use an unobtrusive method utilising the next and previous
IDs to page the anchors href attribute.

Thanks again all, any ideas would be very welcome.

Daz

On 13/03/06, Peter Goddard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Try Eric Meyer's solution

 http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/s5/

 Need I say More?

 Peter

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Stephenson
 Sent: 13 March 2006 15:01
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Standards compliant slideshow

  Can anyone please recommend a standards compliant slideshow script
  that uses a list of images within the HTML markup to dynamically
  create the show.

 http://slayeroffice.com/code/imageCrossFade/xfade2.html

 --
 DonkeyMagic: Website design  development http://www.donkeymagic.co.uk
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Re:[WSG] Usability issue with form help

2006-03-13 Thread Dennis Lapcewich
Return Receipt
   
   Your   Re:[WSG] Usability issue with form help  
   document:   
   
   wasDennis Lapcewich/R6/USDAFS   
   received
   by: 
   
   at:03/13/2006 08:09:41  
   




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Re: [WSG] Usability issue with form help

2006-03-13 Thread Micky Mourelo
Maybe I'm missing your point, but using the tabindex attribute does not
solve your problem?, You can set the tabindex to cycle trough the
inputs and then continue with the help links. It is a totally
accessible method; a bit uncomfortable (to have to pass through all the
input fields to get to the help links, but the links are reachable)

Accesskeys are not good here because they would launch the help instead of focusing it.

Or you could show the help information on focus, either via css (not on
ie) or _javascript_, which would be a lot more informative as everyone
knows how to fill their last name, but if you put a question mark next
to the input field it will make them wonder if they have to fill their
last name in an unfrequent fashion.

BTW: Your example has a html repeated and you should put the meta before the title. 



Re: [WSG] Usability issue with form help

2006-03-13 Thread leenath1
Thanks for your replies to date. To give you a deeper understanding of the 
situation:


- despite quite skilled users, double tabbing hundreds and hundreds of times 
a day is seen as a efficiency issue too (x 5days x 45weeks)
- the sample form 
(http://users.bigpond.net.au/leenath/form/forms-example.htm) is nothing like 
our applications (obviously in real life first name, last name etc. would 
not require any help). They are complex! It's the nature of our business. 
Therefore, despite a very clear label, users often need to be reminded of 
the type of data that is required in a response. Sometimes policy and 
legislation requirements are included in the help, making them lengthy at 
times (so samples of input or always there help information/tips is not 
appropriate).


Thanks for your replies to date. I'll go through them all in more detail 
tonight.


---
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:

Hi all,

I'm hoping to get some feedback from people regarding a solution to a
usability issue. I work for a large organisation and we have very
large/detailed processing required. Because the applications we develop are
very detailed and change dynamically depending upon the current input,
context sensitive help becomes very important.

I have quickly thrown together an example of what Im talk about...

http://users.bigpond.net.au/leenath/form/forms-example.htm

The issue we face is that users are frustrated with having to tab through
the help icons all the time. Users get into the habbit of tabbing twice (to
go past the help and get to the next input field), but sometimes a help item
wont exist, meaning the user accidentally tabs past the next input feild.
Users say they want the help, because it comes in handy frequently,
especially as the organisation is so huge and complex that they could never
remember exactly what every input feild is about.

So, here is what feeback Im looking for - How can we keep context sensitive
help available for each input feild that requires it but potentially ignore
it in a tabbing sequence? However, help must also be accessible (think about
screen readers) and available via keyboard if they need to select it. It
seems like a catch 22 to me, but I figure someone out there may see a
solution that I cannot.

I look forward to your feedback/ideas.

Cheers

Nathan


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Re: [WSG] Standards compliant slideshow

2006-03-13 Thread Jon Tan

Darren West wrote:

Hello,

Can anyone please recommend a standards compliant slideshow script
that uses a list of images within the HTML markup to dynamically
create the show.
  
Slightly self-promoting but try http://scooch.gr0w.com . The current 
demo is woefully out of date already with a lot of work being done now 
around extra functionality but the core slide show features will 
persist. Please feel free to try it and let us know what you think. 
There's a free for personal use download coming shortly.


All the best, Jon
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Re: [WSG] Re: uppercase CSS and XHTML

2006-03-13 Thread Lachlan Hunt

Designer wrote:

Lachlan Hunt wrote:

Designer wrote:
Incidentally, I would be interested in any browsers you know which won't 
support application/xhtml+xml, apart from IE of course.


http://www.w3.org/People/mimasa/test/xhtml/media-types/results

Thanks, Lachlan. I studied the list, and the only failing browsers I saw were 
Opera prior to v7.10 (in some versions the type selector in style sheets matched 
case-insensitively) Amaya (well surely Amaya users are the type to upgrade to 
later versions, which are OK) and iCAB, the latter's only problem being the 
style sheet case mentioned above.


So, as far as I can see, if you have all your style sheets in lower case, the 
only problem is IE. If so, the selective feeding to IE should be fine.  Does 
anyone know why this wouldn't be the case?  If not, is this a new 'hack'?


No, because of the case sensitivity bug several browsers have 
(especially iCab) and the other reasons I mentioned before regarding 
browser Accept headers which would result in those browsers receiving 
HTML, not XHTML, and that would include users that have modified their 
browser's Accept header.  A browser's Accept header and its support for 
XHTML cannot be used as an indication of its CSS abilities.


In Firefox, this can be set with the pref network.http.accept.default 
and some users may have modified it to prefer HTML because of its 
inability to incrementally render XHTML.


iCab's accept header by default contains this:
  text/html;q=0.9,application/xhtml+xml;q=0.7

Safari's accept header contains just */*.  If you were using Apache 
Multiviews (which selects files based on the file extension and chooses 
the files alphabetically in the event that checking all other criteria 
didn't result in a single preference) then the .html file would be 
chosen over the .xhtml file.  Simply changing the file extensions to put 
the XHTML file alphabetically before HTML is not an option because then 
IE users would also receive the XHTML file.


Also keep in mind that that list is not a complete list of every 
browser, there may be others that don't support XHTML, do support 
stylesheets and are still in use by some people.


--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/

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[WSG] help with page...

2006-03-13 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have a question.  I am using Navstudio for menus and I am having a
problem with it overflowing and making me have a scroll at the bottom.  Can
anyone take a look and see what my problem might be.  I'll go ahead and say
it now, but it is not up to standards, it is still in the beginning.
 
Thankstg
 
 
http://www.seaycointegrators.com/kelly/test/lollypop.html


mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


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Re: [WSG] help with page...

2006-03-13 Thread Todd Gleaton



Well it's a little hard to explain but I'll try. Inside 
this tag div id="menu" I have a couple of Nav Studio 
Menus. It is making my page have an unnecessaryhorizontal scroll bar 
at the bottom. I was hoping someone with fresh eyes could take a look and 
see if they spot the reason for this. Everything between...

div id="menu"

and

!-- MENU DIV --/div!-- MENU DIV 
--

Thankstg





  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Paul 
  Bennett 
  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
  Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:27 
PM
  Subject: RE: [WSG] help with 
page...
  Well, as this is a standards list, the first thing people will 
  do is to validate your code and CSS :) Aside from that, can you be 
  more specific bout the error you're getting? I've had a look on Firefox and 
  IE6 and don't get any scrolling issues caused by the navigation.Paul 
  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: 
  Tuesday, March 14, 2006 2:06 PMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: 
  [WSG] help with page...I have a question. I am using Navstudio 
  for menus and I am having aproblem with it overflowing and making me have 
  a scroll at the bottom. Cananyone take a look and see what my 
  problem might be. I'll go ahead and sayit now, but it is not up to 
  standards, it is still in the 
  beginning.Thankstghttp://www.seaycointegrators.com/kelly/test/lollypop.htmlmail2web 
  - Check your email from the web athttp://mail2web.com/ 
  .**The 
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Re: [WSG] Absolute Positioning-A Naive Question (Maybe)

2006-03-13 Thread Felix Miata

On 06/03/13 21:35 Paula Petrik apparently typed:

When I read the W3C specs (not the most riveting exercise on the 
planet), it seems that the developers emphasize absolute positioning. 
For example, they describe using floats to float small bits of text or 
images. It seems, however, that floats have become the order of the day. 
Rather than small bits, whole parts of designs are floated about. Was 
this the W3C's intent? Or, have floats become the modern equivalent of 
tables? Is there some reason why absolute positioning has fallen by the 
wayside? CSS-Discuss's wiki describes absolute positioning as capable of 
simple designs; yet, a significant proportion of csszengarden designs 
are absolutely positioned, and I wouldn't term them simple. Just 
wondering what the current wisdom is on this issue.


The author here is the lead layout developer in the Mozilla project: 
http://dbaron.org/log/2005-12#e20051228a

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Re: [WSG] Absolute Positioning-A Naive Question (Maybe)

2006-03-13 Thread Todd Baker
The main reason I dont use absolute positioning for all my layout is
that most of the sites I build require footers at the base of the page
content.

With every page of differing content length the only way to achieve
this is to float and then clear for the footer.

Thats just me. There are wiser brains on this list tho :)



On 14/03/06, Paula Petrik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 When I read the W3C specs (not the most riveting exercise on the
 planet), it seems that the developers emphasize absolute positioning.
 For example, they describe using floats to float small bits of text
 or images. It seems, however, that floats have become the order of
 the day. Rather than small bits, whole parts of designs are floated
 about. Was this the W3C's intent? Or, have floats become the modern
 equivalent of tables? Is there some reason why absolute positioning
 has fallen by the wayside? CSS-Discuss's wiki describes absolute
 positioning as capable of simple designs; yet, a significant
 proportion of csszengarden designs are absolutely positioned, and I
 wouldn't term them simple. Just wondering what the current wisdom is
 on this issue.
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Re: [WSG] Absolute Positioning-A Naive Question (Maybe)

2006-03-13 Thread Lachlan Hunt

Paula Petrik wrote:
When I read the W3C specs (not the most riveting exercise on the 
planet), it seems that the developers emphasize absolute positioning. 
For example, they describe using floats to float small bits of text or 
images. It seems, however, that floats have become the order of the day. 
Rather than small bits, whole parts of designs are floated about. Was 
this the W3C's intent?  Or, have floats become the modern equivalent of tables?


http://dbaron.org/log/2005-12#e20051228a

Is there some reason why absolute positioning has fallen by the 
wayside?


There are significant limitations with the use of absolute positioning 
such as the inability to create equal height columns and allow any 
column to have the longest content, which is one of the most common 
abuses of floats.


There are better approaches to layout being developed by the W3C, but 
they're still a very long way off from implementation.


--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
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[WSG] Tag clouds spit /

2006-03-13 Thread Jude Robinson

Leaving aside arguments about whether or not tag clouds are the new
mullets (http://www.zeldman.com/daily/0405d.shtml), I've been
pondering how to make one that is accessible, given the questionable
accessibility of most of the ones out there.

Tag clouds suffer from a number of problems, the biggest one being that
they rely on style to provide meaning - shade (or colour) and
font-size are used to provide information about frequency and freshness.
This is obviously *bad* as it does not account for non-CSS user
agents.

There are problems even for users of CSS supporting user agents - whilst 
it is easy to infer some meaning from the size of text (ie: bigger = 
more frequent), it is not easy in this case to infer meaning from a 
change in colour (which equals more fresh: red or blue?)


Wah wah wah. Check out this (very) basic demo (content borrowed from 
http://www.connotea.org/): http://www.dotcode.com/accessible_tag_cloud.html


Presenting it in a table is as far as I'm aware the only accessible way 
to do it, as using the title attribute or enclosing the information in 
the link text itself (then hiding it using CSS) both have serious drawbacks.


Which means there are (surprisingly) problems for IE.

Thoughts? Mild agreement? Sly refutations?

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Re: [WSG] Absolute Positioning-A Naive Question (Maybe)

2006-03-13 Thread Philippe Wittenbergh


On Mar 14, 2006, at 11:35 AM, Paula Petrik wrote:

When I read the W3C specs (not the most riveting exercise on the  
planet), it seems that the developers emphasize absolute  
positioning. For example, they describe using floats to float small  
bits of text or images. It seems, however, that floats have become  
the order of the day. Rather than small bits, whole parts of  
designs are floated about. Was this the W3C's intent? Or, have  
floats become the modern equivalent of tables? Is there some reason  
why absolute positioning has fallen by the wayside? CSS-Discuss's  
wiki describes absolute positioning as capable of simple designs;  
yet, a significant proportion of csszengarden designs are  
absolutely positioned, and I wouldn't term them simple. Just  
wondering what the current wisdom is on this issue.


You read that correctly, and Felix already pointed you to that  
article by David Baron.
The main reason that 'floats' are so popular in current css driven  
design:  they are currently, and very unfortunately, the best tool  
available for the job of creating multicolumn designs.
Absolute positioning has one problematic side effect: as the height  
of the column is usually unknown (depending on the contents), it is  
more difficult to position an element under that absolute positioned  
element. Not impossible, mind you, with a little help of javascript.
An alternative would be the use of {display:table} and {display:table- 
cell}. But that is not supported by IE, which puts serious limits on  
the technique.


Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://emps.l-c-n.com



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Re: [WSG] Absolute Positioning-A Naive Question (Maybe)

2006-03-13 Thread Richard Czeiger

Here's a potentially naive response ... does it matter?

As long as the (x)html is semantically marked up, does the rationale behind 
your css code make a difference (taking into account the fact that it should 
look the same on all browsers)?


The ONLY function of css is the control of the visual treatment of content. 
The use of hacks are an annoyance, but they're only implemented due to the 
failure of browsers to comply with the standards. The various layout options 
are again designed purely to aid you in getting your site to look the way 
you want it to.


Our way around such problems and the method we use to layout pages visually 
is the only thing that counts - if your css is messy or ugly or uses float 
as opposed to absolute position, who cares? The html is clean and semantic 
and the site looks the way you want it to. Isn't that what counts?


Just a thought...
R   ;o)

- Original Message - 
From: Paula Petrik [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 1:35 PM
Subject: [WSG] Absolute Positioning-A Naive Question (Maybe)


When I read the W3C specs (not the most riveting exercise on the  planet), 
it seems that the developers emphasize absolute positioning.  For example, 
they describe using floats to float small bits of text  or images. It 
seems, however, that floats have become the order of  the day. Rather than 
small bits, whole parts of designs are floated  about. Was this the W3C's 
intent? Or, have floats become the modern  equivalent of tables? Is there 
some reason why absolute positioning  has fallen by the wayside? 
CSS-Discuss's wiki describes absolute  positioning as capable of simple 
designs; yet, a significant  proportion of csszengarden designs are 
absolutely positioned, and I  wouldn't term them simple. Just wondering 
what the current wisdom is  on this issue.

Best,
Paula

Paula Petrik
Professor
Department of History  Art History
Associate Director
Center for History  New Media
George Mason University
http://www.archiva.net





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Re: [WSG] Usability issue with form help

2006-03-13 Thread Daniel Nitsche
As an idea, why not make the label for each field a link, which will provide contextual help on that item/field?I'd do some user testing to make sure it works, but it makes sense to me that following such a link would lead to information about that field. The advantage of this would be it reduces the number of elements on the form, and it doesn't repeat the label (eg. First name, then Contextual help for First Name).
Daniel NitscheOn 3/14/06, matt andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 13/03/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I'm hoping to get some feedback from people regarding a solution to a
 usability issue. I work for a large organisation and we have very large/detailed processing required. Because the applications we develop are very detailed and change dynamically depending upon the current input,
 context sensitive help becomes very important. I have quickly thrown together an example of what Im talk about... 
http://users.bigpond.net.au/leenath/form/forms-example.htm The issue we face is that users are frustrated with having to tab through the help icons all the time. Users get into the habbit of tabbing twice (to
 go past the help and get to the next input field), but sometimes a help item wont exist, meaning the user accidentally tabs past the next input feild. Users say they want the help, because it comes in handy frequently,
 especially as the organisation is so huge and complex that they could never remember exactly what every input feild is about. So, here is what feeback Im looking for - How can we keep context sensitive
 help available for each input feild that requires it but potentially ignore it in a tabbing sequence? However, help must also be accessible (think about screen readers) and available via keyboard if they need to select it. It
 seems like a catch 22 to me, but I figure someone out there may see a solution that I cannot.Seems to me that you're saying the primary problem is tabbing*consistency*.If so, then I'd suggest ensuring there is a help item
for *every* field.Surely there's potentially some kind of usefuladvice or clarification for every field?Occam's razor.The simplest solution is often the best.**
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Re: [WSG] Absolute Positioning-A Naive Question (Maybe)

2006-03-13 Thread Paula Petrik

Felix  Todd,
Felix, nice to know that I'm in good company. Todd and Phillipe, I  
think that the footer business is the sticking point. But what is  
sacred about a footer? What information goes into a footer that could  
not go elsewhere? This has me puzzled. In the table days, the most  
important element in a footer was a text version of image links. Even  
today there seems to be very little of consequence in the footer on  
most pages. In addition, there must be others ways (or other places)  
to display this information.  Lachlan, don't the faux columns  
technique (and its fellow travelers) address the problem of equal  
height columns? The reason I pose these questions is that I am  
testing a WYSIWYG program whose goal is to accommodate the rank  
beginner and the advanced user. I think that the engineers have hit  
on the idea of using absolute positioning to prevent beginners from  
making float errors--an interesting approach. Because the program  
emphasizes absolute positioning (it's also perfectly capable of  
floating everything), it has caused me to rethink all sorts of  
received wisdom.

Best,
Paula

Paula Petrik
Professor
Department of History  Art History
Associate Director
Center for History  New Media
George Mason University
http://www.archiva.net





On Mar 13, 2006, at 9:57 PM, Todd Baker wrote:


The main reason I dont use absolute positioning for all my layout is
that most of the sites I build require footers at the base of the page
content.

With every page of differing content length the only way to achieve
this is to float and then clear for the footer.

Thats just me. There are wiser brains on this list tho :)



On 14/03/06, Paula Petrik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

When I read the W3C specs (not the most riveting exercise on the
planet), it seems that the developers emphasize absolute positioning.
For example, they describe using floats to float small bits of text
or images. It seems, however, that floats have become the order of
the day. Rather than small bits, whole parts of designs are floated
about. Was this the W3C's intent? Or, have floats become the modern
equivalent of tables? Is there some reason why absolute positioning
has fallen by the wayside? CSS-Discuss's wiki describes absolute
positioning as capable of simple designs; yet, a significant
proportion of csszengarden designs are absolutely positioned, and I
wouldn't term them simple. Just wondering what the current wisdom is
on this issue.

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Re: [WSG] Tag clouds spit /

2006-03-13 Thread Christian Montoya
On 3/13/06, Jude Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Leaving aside arguments about whether or not tag clouds are the new
 mullets (http://www.zeldman.com/daily/0405d.shtml), I've been
 pondering how to make one that is accessible, given the questionable
 accessibility of most of the ones out there.
...
 Wah wah wah. Check out this (very) basic demo (content borrowed from
 http://www.connotea.org/): http://www.dotcode.com/accessible_tag_cloud.html

 Presenting it in a table is as far as I'm aware the only accessible way
 to do it, as using the title attribute or enclosing the information in
 the link text itself (then hiding it using CSS) both have serious drawbacks.
...
 Thoughts? Mild agreement? Sly refutations?

I think this still suffers from some of the other problems with tag
clouds. For one thing, there's still too many links, many of which
lead to duplicate content (people usually tag the same entry with
multiple tags). Also, it would make more sense in regards to
accessibility  if the most frequent tags were first, and the (ordered)
list descended by frequency. I don't see a table as a good use since
the tabular data is all hidden. The tag cloud is still sorted
alphabetically which isn't too useful as far as tag clouds go.

So, I think a better option would be an ordered list starting with the
most frequent tag and descending from there. The title of the list
could summarize this information and the class could be something like
tag_frequency_list. It wouldn't look like a typical tag cloud but
those are ugly anyway (just like mullets).

--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com
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Re: [WSG] Absolute Positioning-A Naive Question (Maybe)

2006-03-13 Thread Al Sparber

Paula Petrik wrote:

When I read the W3C specs (not the most riveting exercise on the
planet), it seems that the developers emphasize absolute 
positioning.

For example, they describe using floats to float small bits of text
or images. It seems, however, that floats have become the order of
the day. Rather than small bits, whole parts of designs are floated
about. Was this the W3C's intent? Or, have floats become the modern
equivalent of tables?


In a manner of speaking, yes.

Here is a whimsical page using floats in a way I believe they were 
actually intended to be used:

http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/css/holy-gruel/ifloats.htm



Is there some reason why absolute positioning
has fallen by the wayside? CSS-Discuss's wiki describes absolute
positioning as capable of simple designs; yet, a significant
proportion of csszengarden designs are absolutely positioned, and I
wouldn't term them simple. Just wondering what the current wisdom is
on this issue.


It's one tool in the box - though I believe it is much more useful 
than a lot of other CSS authors.


This page uses a classic float, as well as an absolutely positioned 
sidebar:

http://www.projectseven.com/products/templates/pagepacks/tbm/keylime/p7keylime_03.htm


--
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com

Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that 
repairs

are scheduled for next Tuesday.




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[WSG] z-index conflict in IE6 with positioned elements

2006-03-13 Thread Ted Drake








Hi everyone.



Ive been struggling with some z-indexed, positioned
elements that are getting obscured by content further down the page in IE6.
After doing a bit of research, I came across these two sites: 



http://www.aplus.co.yu/css/z-pos/index.php

http://www.quirksmode.org/bugreports/archives/2006/01/Explorer_z_index_bug.html




Aleksandar has a suggested fix that works for simple pages.
Ive got too many positioned elements on my pages and its a virtual
pile-up of ungodly proportions.



Has anyone found a solution to this problem?



Thanks



Ted Drake

Front-end
Engineer

Yahoo! Tech










Re: [WSG] Usability issue with form help

2006-03-13 Thread Richard Czeiger

This may sound silly but what about the tabindex attribute?
AFAIK it's still part of the standard and should do what you're after...

R  :o)

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[WSG] Section specific introductory pages and usability

2006-03-13 Thread Paul Hempsall
I'm well into the development of my Council's new website (replacing the
current inaccessible, tag soup version). A discussion point has been
raised with our Content Editors regarding Introduction pages for each
main section of the site.

What's the general concensus of the direction Introduction pages should
take. I've always been concerned that reiterating the section navigation
via a barrage of links would be a confusing and disorienting method.

Brisbane City Council (as an example) takes this approach on some of
their pages - I'm just wondering what other's views are regarding this
and if this is, in fact, a preferrable method to take.
http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BASE:2119007498:pc=DOBUSINESS

Best Regards,
 
Paul Hempsall
Web Developer
 
Lake Macquarie City Council
Phone: (02) 4921-0713
Fax: (02) 4921-0566
Web: http://www.lakemac.com.au


This information is intended for the addressee only. The use, copying or 
distribution of this message or any information it contains, by anyone other 
than the addressee is prohibited by the sender.

Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual sender, 
except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Council.

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Re: [WSG] Section specific introductory pages and usability

2006-03-13 Thread Terrence Wood


Paul Hempsall:

What's the general concensus of the direction Introduction pages should
take. I've always been concerned that reiterating the section 
navigation

via a barrage of links would be a confusing and disorienting method.


quite the opposite: a barrage of links with a supporting explanation is 
better than a barrage of links with none. Providing expanded scent for 
navigation labels typically found in the main navigation device is 
quicker and easier to use than clicking a bunch of links in the the 
hope the resulting page is the one the user wants. I recently test the 
main navigation system of a large content rich site and most 
participants requested more descriptive information (either through 
tool tips or instructional text) to aid in their understanding of how 
the site was put together.


Start with Henrik Olsens site: http://www.guuui.com/browse.php?cid=137 
See #4  #5 (both point to Jared Spool's work, but there may be 
something else there of interest =) )


kind regards
Terrence Wood.

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Re: [WSG] Section specific introductory pages and usability

2006-03-13 Thread jacinta
This message has been returned to you because I will be on leave from Wed 
15/3/2006 to Friday 17/3/2006. During my absence, please contact Judy Hageman 
on 72224
([EMAIL PROTECTED]).


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Re: [WSG] Tag clouds spit /

2006-03-13 Thread Ben Buchanan
[snip- tag clouds]
 Thoughts? Mild agreement? Sly refutations?

For a simple tag cloud I'm not sure how a table would work - the cloud
isn't really tabular, in the way I would describe tabular. If a
second rating was applied; eg. popularity + freshness (ie. how many
times does the tag appear, and how recently) then you could use a
table to create a matrix. But for your garden variety tag cloud, this
probably isn't applicable.

Technorati's multiple-emphasis method is interesting, but I'm not sure
if the semantics are entirely sound (can you really just keep adding
more emphasis?). Given that current user agents don't really do
anything with the tag combinations you are ultimately left with a
visual-only cue to importance.

I'm with Christian on this one - I'd go with an ordered list with the
most popular tags first. You could use a nested list to group together
bands or popularity levels; or use an ordered list for the bands
with an unordered list for all the equal weight items in that band.

cheers,

Ben

--
--- http://www.200ok.com.au/
--- The future has arrived; it's just not
--- evenly distributed. - William Gibson
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Re: [WSG] Tag clouds spit /

2006-03-13 Thread jacinta
This message has been returned to you because I will be on leave from Wed 
15/3/2006 to Friday 17/3/2006. During my absence, please contact Judy Hageman 
on 72224
([EMAIL PROTECTED]).


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