RE: [WSG] alternative to target="_blank" in xhtml 1.1

[Ricky Onsman]

I can't help thinking we're fighting against one of the most basic
instructions web users work with: "all you have to do with a link is click
on it". 

I agree that it would be useful if users knew the full capabilities of their
software, let alone what their mouse can do. But I don't believe they do. 

I try to follow a fundamental rule, which is that external links should
always open in a new tab or a new window. That way the originating site
remains in background and can be found again somewhat more easily than
having to know to click on the Back button. Yes, I've read that the Back
button accounts for up to 30% of all clicks in a browser, but I've also read
that 30% of users don't know what the Back button does. 

Users rely on the designers and developers to embed instructions in the code
so that "it just happens". This was definitely a benefit to target=_new,
_blank and _top. 

The only other way I can see to ensure users do what I intend is to provide
explicit instructions: "left click to do this, or right click to do this".
I've done this with text that messes up what a site looks like and I've
tried putting them in tooltips. In both cases I've had feedback that the
user "didn't notice" the instruction. 

If the aim of eliminating the target=_blank is to empower the user and not
force them to do what a designer or developer wants then it succeeds. But if
it aims to enhance the user experience, it fails. If it's about not
confusing screenreaders then I think we're just swapping one form of
inaccessibility for another.

When it comes down to it, I think most people (and yes, that means people
using IE) will just left-click on a link. If you want something particular
to happen, you'd better code it in.

Ricky


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Gleitzman
> Sent: Sunday, 25 February 2007 4:14 PM
> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> Subject: Re: [WSG] alternative to target="_blank" in xhtml 1.1
> 
> Gallagher, Robin wrote:
> 
> > Users of the search engine on my intranet site wold like to 
> have the 
> > results open in a new page. Can anyone suggest a valid method to do 
> > this in xhtml 1.1?
> 
> Umm... teach 'em how to use the software? A good browser 
> allows the choice of a new window - or tab - with a modifier 
> key added to the mouse click. If all else fails, or you tell 
> us that they're stuck on IE/Win, then right-click > Open in 
> new window.
> 
> N
> ___
> omnivision. websight.
> http://www.omnivision.com.au/
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WSG] alternative to target="_blank" in xhtml 1.1

[Nick Gleitzman]

Gallagher, Robin wrote:

Users of the search engine on my intranet site wold like to have the 
results open in a new page. Can anyone suggest a valid method to do 
this in xhtml 1.1?


Umm... teach 'em how to use the software? A good browser allows the 
choice of a new window - or tab - with a modifier key added to the 
mouse click. If all else fails, or you tell us that they're stuck on 
IE/Win, then right-click > Open in new window.


N
___
omnivision. websight.
http://www.omnivision.com.au/



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Re: [WSG] alternative to target="_blank" in xhtml 1.1

[Mariusz Nowak]

Users of the search engine on my intranet site wold like to have the 
results open in a new page. Can anyone suggest a valid method to do 
this in xhtml 1.1?


To my knowledge the valid way of opening link in a new window in XHTML 
1.1 is to let user decide whether to open page in current or new window.
All modern browsers have this thing in mind e.g. in Firefox  you open 
page in current tab using left button and in new tab using middle button.


After all this functionality is within scope of interface and shouldn't 
be resolved outside of it (how about windowless interface??)  - this is 
the reason why it was removed from specs.


--
Mariusz
http://www.medikoo.com



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Re: [WSG] Clearing Floats

[Wojciech Zając]

Ryan,

if you don't know this yet, I would recommend you clearfix: http:// 
www.positioniseverything.net/easyclearing.html.


--
Regards,
Wojciech Zając

On Feb 24, 2007, at 12:15 PM, Ryan Moore wrote:

i found this link that states that when clearing floats, you should  
use the overflow technique.


http://www.quirksmode.org/css/clearing.html

is this the best route to go?  I ran into some difficulties with a  
layout where the border of the box model was collapsing in, and the  
content was expanded out of the box, and you couldn't see the box's  
bg colour.




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Re: [WSG] Clearing Floats

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Ryan Moore wrote:
i found this link that states that when clearing floats, you should 
use the overflow technique.


http://www.quirksmode.org/css/clearing.html

is this the best route to go?


It depends ... on the case/layout/design/intentions/whatever.
In some cases - yes. In others it's useless.

You must have, and use, alternatives in some cases.
I have collected a number of alternatives under "containing floats…" here...

...and you'll probably need most of them from time to time.

I ran into some difficulties with a layout where the border of the 
box model was collapsing in, and the content was expanded out of the 
box, and you couldn't see the box's bg colour.


Doesn't work too well in this situation either...

...where the offset headline is cut off at the edge in compliant browsers.

regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no


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Re: [WSG] The problem with nesting ULs for a drop down

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Cole Kuryakin wrote:

Scott and Rolf -

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction; you're both right, nesting
the "drop-down" ul's within the "trigger" ul list does work, but due to
design constraints, this raises another problem: my drop-down menus contains
some items that are quite long.

Since the drop down UL's appear to take their width from the parent UL, I've
got t0 add so much horizontal space between my top-level menu items that it
breaks the design.

--- That's odd too, as I though that using position:absolute would take the
element out of the flow anyway. Oh well. ---


Out of the flow - yes, but dimensions are still inherited from parent.


So, I'm still stuck... there any other css-based way to trigger the
visibility of a "display:none" ul? 



Use the correct solution - with nested lists. Then set a suitable width 
for the parent list an add a new width for the children.


Example:

ul {width: (whatever);}
ul ul (width: auto (or whatever);}

...and repeat that for...

ul li {}
ul ul li {}

...if you have styled in such a way that you need to restyle the 
list-items directly.


regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no


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[WSG] Clearing Floats

[Ryan Moore]

i found this link that states that when clearing floats, you should use the
overflow technique.

http://www.quirksmode.org/css/clearing.html

is this the best route to go?  I ran into some difficulties with a layout
where the border of the box model was collapsing in, and the content was
expanded out of the box, and you couldn't see the box's bg colour.


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RE: [WSG] The problem with nesting ULs for a drop down

[Cole Kuryakin]

Scott and Rolf -

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction; you're both right, nesting
the "drop-down" ul's within the "trigger" ul list does work, but due to
design constraints, this raises another problem: my drop-down menus contains
some items that are quite long.

Since the drop down UL's appear to take their width from the parent UL, I've
got t0 add so much horizontal space between my top-level menu items that it
breaks the design.

--- That's odd too, as I though that using position:absolute would take the
element out of the flow anyway. Oh well. ---

So, I'm still stuck... there any other css-based way to trigger the
visibility of a "display:none" ul? 

Cole

-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of 'Scott Swabey'
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 9:43 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Please Help! Hover not working to trigger display:block
in FF

Cole Kuryakin wrote:
> Hello All -
> 
Hi Cole

  > I've set one of the li's as css trigger (via a class name) in order to
> show a drop-down menu (a UL) that has a default value of display:none.
> 
> Unfortunately, nothing I try will initiate the declaration containing 
> the display:block.

You will need to nest the #industry ul within the li you wish it to 
display under to target it with the css:

Industry

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Regards
-- 

Scott Swabey
Design & Development Director - Lafinboy Productions
www.lafinboy.com | www.thought-after.com


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