Re: [WSG] Suggestions Please for: CMS / E-commerce Solutions

2007-05-29 Thread Matthew Pennell

On 5/28/07, Mark Hedley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I am currently looking for a cost-effective (preferably opensource)
solution to run our companies UK based web site.



If you can afford to wait a few months, Magento is open-source and looks to
be pretty good:

http://www.magentocommerce.com/

Matthew.


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Re: [WSG] Content Management issue ?

2007-05-29 Thread Steve Olive
On Tue, 29 May 2007 01:51:16 am Kevin Ross wrote:

 Can anyone lend a hand?  Thanks very much...

 Regards,
 Kevin.



Have you tried looking at http://www.opensourcecms.com/? They have working 
installations of all Open Source CMS that you can try as user and 
administrator. Sit down with the client and try each one out.


-- 
Regards,

Steve
Bathurst Computer Solutions
URL: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mobile: 0407 224 251
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Linux Powered!
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and say the same things they say, then
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consider intelligence the ability to
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Re: [WSG] Suggestions Please for: CMS / E-commerce Solutions

2007-05-29 Thread Steve Olive
On Tue, 29 May 2007 06:20:05 am Mark Hedley wrote:
 Hi everyone.

 I am currently looking for a cost-effective (preferably opensource)
 solution to run our companies UK based web site.


Have you looked at the e-Commerce section at http://www.opensourcecms.com?

-- 
Regards,

Steve
Bathurst Computer Solutions
URL: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mobile: 0407 224 251
 _
... (0)
... / / \
.. / / . )
.. V__/_
Linux Powered!
Registered Linux User #355382
*
If you read the same things as others
and say the same things they say, then
you're perceived as intelligent. I'm a
bit more independent and radical and
consider intelligence the ability to
think about matters on your own and
ask a lot of skeptical questions to 
get at the real truth, not just what
you're told it is.
Apple's Inventor - Steve Wozniak 2006
*


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Re: [WSG] Suggestions Please for: CMS / E-commerce Solutions

2007-05-29 Thread Micky Hulse

Micky Hulse wrote:

You might want to look at these sites:
http://www.cmsmatrix.org/
http://start.websitebaker.org/en/introduction.html


Doh, just noticed I pasted the website baker url in the wrong spot, I 
meant to suggest these two sites:


http://www.cmsmatrix.org/
http://www.opensourcecms.com/

:)

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RE: [WSG] Accessible Photoshop and flash

2007-05-29 Thread michael.brockington
Marvin,
I for one don't really understand what it is that you are trying to
achieve, but then that may partly be the language barrier!
Regards,
Mike 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of marvin hunkin
 Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 3:04 AM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: [WSG] Accessible Photoshop and flash
 
 Hi.
 doing certificate iv in web site development at my local college.
 now for second semester, will be using photo shop, to 
 manipulate 2 and 3 d 
 objects.
 now, is there any way to do this accessibly with jaws?
 also, need to use flash, to create 2 and 3 d buttons, objects, etc.
 is there an accessible way to code this?
 let me know asap.
 cheers Marvin.
 


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[WSG] OT on list

2007-05-29 Thread Nick Gleitzman

Hi folks

Is it just me. or have a whole slew of recent posts been OT?

CMS: there's a CMS list just for you guys. Please use it...
Photoshop and JAWS: sorry, Marvin, but that's just OT for this list.

Can we get back to the on topic issues of Web Standards, perchance?

Check the guidelines - if you you need to preface a post with, This is 
probably OT, but... then it is. So don't post...


Thanks

N
___
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http://www.omnivision.com.au/

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Re: [WSG] Content Management issue ?

2007-05-29 Thread Nick Roper

Hi Mark,

Have you looked at Karova?

www.karova.com

It is XML/XSLT based, so that may be an issue if you want a PHP based 
solution, but you can get in and edit the XSLTs and of course CSS, so it 
is pretty flexible and compliant. Not sure about the Protx support. One 
thing to be aware of is that it is a hosted solution, and not available 
to install on your own server as far as I know.


It has been used for some large clients such as World Wildlife Fund (not 
our client unfortunately), and we used it to build a store at the 
following URL if you want a look:


http://retailstore.haptic.co.uk

I think they were working on a PHP-based version, and are working on 
more friendly URLs - so might be worth a look.


Cheers,

Nick

--
Nick Roper
partner
logical elements

Mark Hedley wrote:

Keeping an eye on it myself. Just a shame their doesn't seem to be
support for non-native Commerce yet.

Hopefully development will grow for UK and other territories soon : )

Mark Hedley
Web Development Manager
Mayborn Baby  Child Division


http://www.tommeetippee.com

Jackel International Limited is a company registered in England  Wales
(registered number 1894022). Our registered office is at Dudley Lane,
Cramlington, Northumberland, NE23 7RH.  Tel (0191) 2501864, Fax (0191)
2501727. Sangenic International Limited is a company registered in
England  Wales (registered number 1308939). Our registered office is at
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-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Tate Johnson
Sent: 29 May 2007 01:47
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Content Management issue ?

On Tue, 29 May 2007 10:50:15 +1200
Robin Gorry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



I have head very good things about silver stripe
http://www.silverstripe.com/home/
This is an open source cms writen in php which you are able to
cusomise and manipulate.

Simple. Intuitive and user-friendly
Flexible. MVC framework 
Scalable. From 1 page to a million 
Fast. As responsive as a desktop app thanks to native Ajax support
Standards Compliant. Fully XHTML compliant 
Modular. Easy to extend 
Template Freedom. No restrictions on the look and feel of your site 
Open source. It's free in every sense of the word! (BSD)

Cross platform (Windows/Linux/Mac) and easy to install (PHP based


Silverstripe is fantastic. It's relatively new in relation to other
CMS's, but it sure has a lot of potential. Primarily, it's developed by
a NZ company and was originally a closed source, proprietary CMS. It's
extremely flexible for developers/designers to create custom
templates/sites. The community is growing larger, and the SS staff are
quite helpful. They provide a forum and IRC channel for support and
discussion. More importantly, it's easy for clients/content writers to
create pages, the interface is quite intuitive. 


There are a few quirks here and there, no official blog/news module
exists, but there is a guide/tutorial for how to create one. The next
release  (v2.1) will feature a tonne of improvements and those extra
modules too. It's exciting times ahead for Silverstripe, and I
certainly encourage you all to keep your eye on it.

I'm actually developing a web site using Silverstripe at the moment,
first time :)

Cheers,

Tate Johnson


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Re: [WSG] need help with tabular interface

2007-05-29 Thread Nick Fitzsimons

On 29 May 2007, at 02:10:02, Sander Aarts wrote:

I'm glad the designers I work with know that rounded corners can be  
a real pain in the ass, so they always ask before implementing them  
in the design.


I want your designers! ;-)

--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/





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Re: self-closing tags in HTML, was: [WSG] A CMS for POSH sites?

2007-05-29 Thread Alastair Campbell

On 5/25/07, David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Not causing validation issues does not make them fine; even if the
vast majority of user agents don't respect it, img / in an HTML
document means An image element followed by a greater than sign.
The HTML specification explicitly advises authors to avoid them:
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/appendix/notes.html#h-B.3.7


Interesting, but I don't understand how that section applies?

How do you get from these constructs technically introduce no
ambiguity in that section, to a self-closed image being An image
element followed by a greater than sign?

Especially since this case is explicitly shown in the compatibility
guidelines (http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#C_2).

Is Vlad from Xstandard wrong when he said: if an authoring tool
generates XHTML in a backwards compatible way, then there is no need
to have a configuration to produce either HTML or XHTML. The
backwards compatible XHTML will work in HTML and XHTML templates.
(http://alastairc.ac/2007/02/wysiwyg-editor-spec-checklist/#comment-12741 )

Or is this a case of it doesn't quite comply to part of a spec but
doesn't make any difference in practice? If it isn't, perhaps the
W3C's HTML validator should be updated?

Cheers,

-Alastair


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Re: self-closing tags in HTML, was: [WSG] A CMS for POSH sites?

2007-05-29 Thread David Dorward


On 29 May 2007, at 12:50, Alastair Campbell wrote:


On 5/25/07, David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Not causing validation issues does not make them fine; even if the
vast majority of user agents don't respect it, img / in an HTML
document means An image element followed by a greater than sign.
The HTML specification explicitly advises authors to avoid them:
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/appendix/notes.html#h-B.3.7


Interesting, but I don't understand how that section applies?

How do you get from these constructs technically introduce no
ambiguity in that section, to a self-closed image being An image
element followed by a greater than sign?


Because, in an HTML document, an XHTML style img tag unambiguously  
means An image element followed by a greater than sign.




Especially since this case is explicitly shown in the compatibility
guidelines (http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#C_2).



... because most browsers don't support img / correctly in HTML  
documents, you can write XHTML documents that are compatible with  
most HTML user agents (this is not the same as being compatible with  
HTML).



Is Vlad from Xstandard wrong when he said: if an authoring tool
generates XHTML in a backwards compatible way, then there is no need
to have a configuration to produce either HTML or XHTML. The
backwards compatible XHTML will work in HTML and XHTML templates.
(http://alastairc.ac/2007/02/wysiwyg-editor-spec-checklist/ 
#comment-12741 )


Depends on your definition of work. It renders as the author  
intends in most HTML user agents. It doesn't mean what the author  
intends in anything that parses the HTML correctly.



Or is this a case of it doesn't quite comply to part of a spec but


No. The spec allows img /, it just means something different.


doesn't make any difference in practice?


W3 used to parse the construct correctly under HTML rules (when I  
used it from time to time). Since then, I think they have crippled  
its HTML handling to cope with the amount of bad markup out there.



If it isn't, perhaps the
W3C's HTML validator should be updated?


Anywhere an img element is allowed in an HTML document, a greater  
than sign is also allowed. So the construct is valid and the  
validator should not claim otherwise. It just doesn't mean what the  
author intends.


--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/
http://blog.dorward.me.uk/




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Re: self-closing tags in HTML, was: [WSG] A CMS for POSH sites?

2007-05-29 Thread Andrew Maben

On May 29, 2007, at 9:26 AM, David Dorward wrote:
Because, in an HTML document, an XHTML style img tag unambiguously  
means An image element followed by a greater than sign.


Sorry to be dense, I'm trying to grasp this concept. Does (at least  
strictly speaking) the inclusion of a forward slash within the tag of  
any element prevent the tag in question from being terminated? I  
guess my question is how a tag that has not been terminated (with  
) can be said to be followed by anything at all?


And further:

... because most browsers don't support img / correctly in HTML  
documents


How is img / (or presumably br /) correctly supported? And which  
browsers do correctly support it?


Thanks,

Andrew

109B SE 4th Av
Gainesville
FL 32601

Cell: 352-870-6661

http://www.andrewmaben.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

In a well designed user interface, the user should not need  
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Re: self-closing tags in HTML, was: [WSG] A CMS for POSH sites?

2007-05-29 Thread David Dorward


On 29 May 2007, at 14:55, Andrew Maben wrote:


On May 29, 2007, at 9:26 AM, David Dorward wrote:
Because, in an HTML document, an XHTML style img tag unambiguously  
means An image element followed by a greater than sign.


Sorry to be dense, I'm trying to grasp this concept. Does (at least  
strictly speaking) the inclusion of a forward slash within the tag  
of any element prevent the tag in question from being terminated?


No. A forward slash terminates the tag (so the  character is outside  
the tag, so its character data).


In HTML all these mean the same thing:

img /
img
imggt;

(and title/ foo / means the same as title foo /title)



... because most browsers don't support img / correctly in HTML  
documents


How is img / (or presumably br /) correctly supported? And  
which browsers do correctly support it?


An image (or line break) followed by a  character.  So Hellobr / 
World should be rendered:


Hello
World

(in HTML).

The only browser I know of, off the top of my head, that gets it  
right is W3 (and as mentioned, I believe it was intentionally  
crippled to cope with fallout from Appendix C). Of course nsgmls and  
related programs also get it right.



--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/
http://blog.dorward.me.uk/




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[WSG] Out of office - Stuart McPhail

2007-05-29 Thread stuart
Thank you for your email. I am out of the office until Monday 4th June.

Stuart


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Re: [WSG] OT on list

2007-05-29 Thread Stuart Foulstone
Assistive technology off topic???


On Tue, May 29, 2007 11:52 am, Nick Gleitzman wrote:
 Hi folks

 Is it just me. or have a whole slew of recent posts been OT?

 CMS: there's a CMS list just for you guys. Please use it...
 Photoshop and JAWS: sorry, Marvin, but that's just OT for this list.

 Can we get back to the on topic issues of Web Standards, perchance?

 Check the guidelines - if you you need to preface a post with, This is
 probably OT, but... then it is. So don't post...

 Thanks

 N
 ___
 omnivision. websight.
 http://www.omnivision.com.au/

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http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk
BigEasy Web Design
69 Flockton Court
Rockingham Street
Sheffield
S1 4EB

Tel. 07751 413451


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Re: self-closing tags in HTML, was: [WSG] A CMS for POSH sites?

2007-05-29 Thread Alastair Campbell

On 5/29/07, David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Because, in an HTML document, an XHTML style img tag unambiguously
means An image element followed by a greater than sign.


I still can't see where it says that in the spec, do you need to know
the SGML spec as well? It seems strange that the closing slash is
taken as the close, rather than the greater than sign, is that in the
HTML spec somewhere?

Since this is either ill defined or not defined in the HTML spec so
far (unless WHATWG tackled it?), I'd suggest that the method implied
by XHTML compatibility guidelines might be a more suitable reference
in future?


the construct is valid and the
validator should not claim otherwise. It just doesn't mean what the
author intends.


Given the mis-match in meaning that does not produce an error, surely
it's something that should change then?

Kind regards,

-Alastair


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Re: [WSG] OT on list

2007-05-29 Thread Jamie Collins

Assistive Technology is by no means off topic when Web Standards are
involved.

On 5/29/07, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Assistive technology off topic???


On Tue, May 29, 2007 11:52 am, NickGleitzman wrote:
 Hi folks

 Is it just me. or have a whole slew of recent posts been OT?

 CMS: there's a CMS list just for you guys. Please use it...
 Photoshop and JAWS: sorry, Marvin, but that's just OT for this list.

 Can we get back to the on topic issues of Web Standards, perchance?

 Check the guidelines - if you you need to preface a post with, This is
 probably OT, but... then it is. So don't post...

 Thanks

 N
 ___
 omnivision. websight.
 http://www.omnivision.com.au/

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http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk
BigEasy Web Design
69 Flockton Court
Rockingham Street
Sheffield
S1 4EB

Tel. 07751 413451


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Re: [WSG] OT on list

2007-05-29 Thread Barney Carroll

Nick Gleitzman wrote:
 Photoshop and JAWS: sorry, Marvin, but that's just OT for this list.

Stuart Foulstone wrote:
 Assistive technology off topic???

It's worth making the point: Don't get intimidated by this - JAWS is a 
perfectly legitimate thing to discuss here.



Regards,
Barney


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Re: [WSG] OT on list

2007-05-29 Thread Patrick H. Lauke

Quoting Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


Assistive technology off topic???


How to use JAWS to work with Photoshop or similar apps to  
create/manipulate graphics seems a bit far from web standards, so  
I'd agree OT.


P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
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__
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Re: [WSG] OT on list

2007-05-29 Thread Nick Fitzsimons

On 29 May 2007, at 15:58:53, Stuart Foulstone wrote:


Assistive technology off topic???

Photoshop and JAWS: sorry, Marvin, but that's just OT for this list.

Can we get back to the on topic issues of Web Standards, perchance?


Use of assistive technology with desktop applications doesn't really  
have anything to do with Web Standards, surely? Remember, screen  
readers aren't web browsers...


Regards,

Nick.
--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/





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Re: self-closing tags in HTML, was: [WSG] A CMS for POSH sites?

2007-05-29 Thread Rimantas Liubertas

I still can't see where it says that in the spec, do you need to know
the SGML spec as well? It seems strange that the closing slash is
taken as the close, rather than the greater than sign, is that in the
HTML spec somewhere?


http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/sgml/sgmldecl.html
FEATURES, SHORTTAG YES

...
Regards,
Rimantas
--
http://rimantas.com/


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Re: self-closing tags in HTML, was: [WSG] A CMS for POSH sites?

2007-05-29 Thread Alastair Campbell

On 5/29/07, Rimantas Liubertas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/sgml/sgmldecl.html
FEATURES, SHORTTAG YES


I guess from that I should deduce that I do need to know the SGML spec
to know that a slash will terminate a tag?

I hope HTML5 does away with this...

-Alastair


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Re: [WSG] OT on list

2007-05-29 Thread Hassan Schroeder
Jamie Collins wrote:
 Assistive Technology is by no means off topic when Web Standards are
 involved.

!? and Web Standards and Photoshop intersect exactly where? :-)

-- 
Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com
opinion: webtuitive.blogspot.com

  dream.  code.




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Re: self-closing tags in HTML, was: [WSG] A CMS for POSH sites?

2007-05-29 Thread Nick Fitzsimons

On 29 May 2007, at 16:14:53, Alastair Campbell wrote:


On 5/29/07, David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Because, in an HTML document, an XHTML style img tag unambiguously
means An image element followed by a greater than sign.


I still can't see where it says that in the spec, do you need to know
the SGML spec as well?


Yes, HTML is an SGML application, as described in the spec:
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/intro/sgmltut.html#h-3.1

Therefore a compliant parser must parse according to the rules of SGML.

The spec does include an appendix:
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/appendix/notes.html#sgmlfeatures
listing aspects of SGML that are poorly supported by existing user  
agents; however, that doesn't excuse or justify improper behaviour by  
parsers, and the entire appendix is informative, not normative.


The specific SGML SHORTTAG construct under discusssion in this thread  
is included in the appendix at

http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/appendix/notes.html#h-B.3.7

Cheers,

Nick.
--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/





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Re: [WSG] OT on list

2007-05-29 Thread Nick Fitzsimons

On 29 May 2007, at 16:20:28, Barney Carroll wrote:

It's worth making the point: Don't get intimidated by this - JAWS  
is a perfectly legitimate thing to discuss here.


Only in connection with its use in conjunction with a web browser.  
Would you argue that a discussion of the use of Jaws with Microsoft  
Excel (which is, judging by the manufacturer's FAQs, one of its  
commonest uses) is related to Web Standards?


Regards,

Nick.
--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/





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Re: self-closing tags in HTML, was: [WSG] A CMS for POSH sites?

2007-05-29 Thread liorean

On 29/05/07, Alastair Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On 5/29/07, David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Because, in an HTML document, an XHTML style img tag unambiguously
 means An image element followed by a greater than sign.



I still can't see where it says that in the spec, do you need to know
the SGML spec as well?


Just in the same way you can't know XHTML if you have no knowledge of
XML, you can't really know HTML 2-4.01 with no knowledge of SGML. You
don't need to know all of SGML however, just the subset that is used
for HTML.


It seems strange that the closing slash is
taken as the close, rather than the greater than sign, is that in the
HTML spec somewhere?


Yes, in the SGML declaration.


Since this is either ill defined or not defined in the HTML spec so
far (unless WHATWG tackled it?), I'd suggest that the method implied
by XHTML compatibility guidelines might be a more suitable reference
in future?


Or the mechanism specified in the HTML 5 draft. But that's not even a
WD yet, so it'll have to wait.


 the construct is valid and the
 validator should not claim otherwise. It just doesn't mean what the
 author intends.

Given the mis-match in meaning that does not produce an error, surely
it's something that should change then?


HTML 5 will change it by no longer specifying that HTML is SGML.



And just for fun, let me give you an example of three documents:
uri:http://liorean.net/samplelayout.html
uri:http://liorean.net/sgml-goodness.html
uri:http://liorean.net/xhtmllayout.xhtml

All of them are valid documents and except for DOCTYPE, XML prologue
and XHTML namespace the document they describe is identical.
--
David liorean Andersson


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Re: [WSG] OT on list

2007-05-29 Thread Barney Carroll

Nick Fitzsimons wrote:
 Would you argue that a discussion of the use of Jaws with Microsoft
 Excel (which is, judging by the manufacturer's FAQs, one of its
 commonest uses) is related to Web Standards?

Only if the .csv was downloaded off the cybercom.

A statement in the root post would easily be understood as JAWS is OT 
for users with no knowledge of whatever topic that was referring to. 
They shouldn't be put off.


But I digress: Let's see how popular we can make this thread. A web 
standards list about grammar, oblique self-references and wilful 
misunderstanding, that's what we could all do with. Hehehe.



Regards,
Barney


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Re: [WSG] OT on list

2007-05-29 Thread Jamie Collins

If you read what i said properly you will understand what i said.

Do you see the part that says'When Web Standards Are Involved'?
I didnt mention photoshop anywere, i said when Web Standards are Involved.

So since when does Photoshop mean Web Standards? Because i didn't say that.

On 5/29/07, Hassan Schroeder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Jamie Collins wrote:
 Assistive Technology is by no means off topic when Web Standards are
 involved.

!? and Web Standards and Photoshop intersect exactly where? :-)

--
Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com
opinion: webtuitive.blogspot.com

  dream.  code.




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[WSG] Firefox Wmode

2007-05-29 Thread John Gribben
Hello,

 

Does anyone have any experience dealing with the bug in Firefox that
disables mouseover events in Flash when the animation file is placed in an
absolutely positioned element and the Wmode parameter of the animation is
set to transparent or opaque?  I've built a page where an animation is
positioned beneath some other elements, and a button is not clickable in
Firefox.

 

Thanks,

John



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[WSG] Web Accessibility Update from Shawn Henry, London, Tuesday 5 June

2007-05-29 Thread Swan, Henny
Hi All,

Shawn Henry will be speaking about Web accessibility in London next week
at a free event at the University of Westminster hosted by RNIB. Shawn
will mostly talk about Web guidelines and standards, and also talk a
little about the relationship between accessibility and usability and
designing positive user experiences for people with disabilities.

Title:Web Accessibility Update: What's New, WCAG 2.0, and Current
Issues
Date:Tuesday June 5th
Time:6.45 so we can start at 7pm
Venue:Department of Electronics, Communications and Software
Engineering, Westminster University, New Cavendish Street campus
Location: The campus is a short walk from Goodge Street tube
Registration (free):
http://wailondon.eventwax.com/whats-new-wcag-20-and-current-issues---sha
wn-henry-web-accessibility-initiative
Description:
http://www.rnib.org.uk/wacblog/conferences/shawn-henry-from-wai-presents
-whats-new-wcag-20-and-current-issues-tuesday-june-5th-london/

Hopefully see a few of you there.

Henny
www.rnib.org.uk/wacblog


-- 
DISCLAIMER:

NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments is 
confidential and may be privileged.  If you are not the intended 
recipient you should not use, disclose, distribute or copy any of the 
content of it or of any attachment; you are requested to notify the 
sender immediately of your receipt of the email and then to delete it 
and any attachments from your system.

RNIB endeavours to ensure that emails and any attachments generated by
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cannot accept any responsibility for any  such which are transmitted.
We therefore recommend you scan all attachments.

Please note that the statements and views expressed in this email and 
any attachments are those of the author and do not necessarily represent
those of RNIB.

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Website: http://www.rnib.org.uk



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Re: self-closing tags in HTML, was: [WSG] A CMS for POSH sites?

2007-05-29 Thread Alastair Campbell

Thanks Liorean,

On 5/29/07, liorean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Just in the same way you can't know XHTML if you have no knowledge of
XML, you can't really know HTML 2-4.01 with no knowledge of SGML. You
don't need to know all of SGML however, just the subset that is used
for HTML.

 It seems strange that the closing slash is
 taken as the close, rather than the greater than sign, is that in the
 HTML spec somewhere?

Yes, in the SGML declaration.


Which someone linked to earlier, and I still can't translate to see
anything on forward slashes... is there actually an SGML spec? You'd
have thought it would be linked to from here:
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/intro/sgmltut.html
or googlable with SGML spec, but no such luck.

Cheers,

-Alastair


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Re: [WSG] Web Accessibility Update from Shawn Henry, London, Tuesday 5 June

2007-05-29 Thread McLaughlin, Gail G
By an chance will Shawn's talk be available via web conferencing or
telephone or podcast?


On 5/29/07 11:19 AM, Swan, Henny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi All,
 
 Shawn Henry will be speaking about Web accessibility in London next week
 at a free event at the University of Westminster hosted by RNIB. Shawn
 will mostly talk about Web guidelines and standards, and also talk a
 little about the relationship between accessibility and usability and
 designing positive user experiences for people with disabilities.
 
 Title:Web Accessibility Update: What's New, WCAG 2.0, and Current
 Issues
 Date:Tuesday June 5th
 Time:6.45 so we can start at 7pm
 Venue:Department of Electronics, Communications and Software
 Engineering, Westminster University, New Cavendish Street campus
 Location: The campus is a short walk from Goodge Street tube
 Registration (free):
 http://wailondon.eventwax.com/whats-new-wcag-20-and-current-issues---sha
 wn-henry-web-accessibility-initiative
 Description:
 http://www.rnib.org.uk/wacblog/conferences/shawn-henry-from-wai-presents
 -whats-new-wcag-20-and-current-issues-tuesday-june-5th-london/
 
 Hopefully see a few of you there.
 
 Henny
 www.rnib.org.uk/wacblog
 



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Re: [WSG] OT on list

2007-05-29 Thread Hassan Schroeder
Jamie Collins wrote:
 If you read what i said properly you will understand what i said.

If you read the original posting properly...  :-)

 Do you see the part that says'When Web Standards Are Involved'?
 I didnt mention photoshop anywere, i said when Web Standards are Involved.

To quote the OP:

 now for second semester, will be using photo shop, to manipulate 2 and 3 d 
 objects.
 now, is there any way to do this accessibly with jaws? 

-- 
Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com
opinion: webtuitive.blogspot.com

  dream.  code.




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Re: self-closing tags in HTML, was: [WSG] A CMS for POSH sites?

2007-05-29 Thread Nick Fitzsimons

On 29 May 2007, at 17:32:08, Alastair Campbell wrote:


 It seems strange that the closing slash is
 taken as the close, rather than the greater than sign, is that  
in the

 HTML spec somewhere?

Yes, in the SGML declaration.


Which someone linked to earlier, and I still can't translate to see
anything on forward slashes... is there actually an SGML spec? You'd
have thought it would be linked to from here:
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/intro/sgmltut.html
or googlable with SGML spec, but no such luck.


The SGML spec is ISO 8879:1986, but being ISO, they charge a fortune  
for you to see it :-(


The topic under discussion is, as I mentioned in my earlier post,  
mentioned in HTML 4.01 at

http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/appendix/notes.html#h-B.3.7
as being something with poor support in HTML user agents.

Regards,

Nick.
--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/





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Re: [WSG] OT on list

2007-05-29 Thread Robert O'Rourke
I think it would be more useful to try an work out where Marvin is 
coming from when he mentions those two programs. He's on a web design 
course and has some awareness of web standards and that it's good to 
support screen readers. Some of these courses are still teaching 'Save 
as HTML' and bingo you're done (perhaps with some tweaks), whereas I 
assume most people on this list have got all the basic concepts down and 
write all their code by hand and are used to using css to convey design.


I'm guessing, and no offence to Marvin at all, that he's getting 
confused by the minefield of opinions that abound around the topic of 
web standards and is still working through the basic concepts and 
principles that we take for granted. I've not read the whole thread but 
I'm not sure anybody has actually tried to answer his questions.


So, Marvin,
Photoshop is for creating/editing graphics and sometimes designing a 
website.

You code your website content with HTML,
You then use the graphics/design created in photoshop via the CSS to 
style the HTML.


JAWS is then used by some people to read the HTML out.
Photoshop has nothing to do with web standards directly and JAWS 
compatibility is down to the quality of your HTML.


That's probably an over simplified explanation but my point is instead 
of arguing about what's OT at least try and get it onT where possible. 
We're here to educate aswell as discuss.


Rob


Jamie Collins wrote:

If you read what i said properly you will understand what i said.

Do you see the part that says'When Web Standards Are Involved'?
I didnt mention photoshop anywere, i said when Web Standards are 
Involved.


So since when does Photoshop mean Web Standards? Because i didn't say 
that.


On 5/29/07, *Hassan Schroeder*  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Jamie Collins wrote:
 Assistive Technology is by no means off topic when Web Standards
are
 involved.

!? and Web Standards and Photoshop intersect exactly where? :-)

--
Hassan Schroeder -
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com
opinion: webtuitive.blogspot.com
http://webtuitive.blogspot.com




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Re: self-closing tags in HTML, was: [WSG] A CMS for POSH sites?

2007-05-29 Thread liorean

On 29/05/07, Alastair Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On 5/29/07, liorean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  It seems strange that the closing slash is
  taken as the close, rather than the greater than sign, is that in the
  HTML spec somewhere?
 Yes, in the SGML declaration.
Which someone linked to earlier, and I still can't translate to see
anything on forward slashes... is there actually an SGML spec?


Yes. Linking it probably won't help you though. You'll soon understand why:
http://www.iso.org/iso/en/CatalogueDetailPage.CatalogueDetail?CSNUMBER=16387scopelist=

More useful would be the SGML Handbook or some summary site, such as
uri:http://xml.coverpages.org//sgmlsyn/contents.htm


You'd
have thought it would be linked to from here:
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/intro/sgmltut.html
or googlable with SGML spec, but no such luck.


Well, I got more than enough matches on SGML and Standard.
--
David liorean Andersson


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Re: self-closing tags in HTML, was: [WSG] A CMS for POSH sites?

2007-05-29 Thread Alastair Campbell

On 5/29/07, Nick Fitzsimons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

The topic under discussion is, as I mentioned in my earlier post,
mentioned in HTML 4.01 at
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/appendix/notes.html#h-B.3.7
as being something with poor support in HTML user agents.


Which I read, thank you, but unless I'm being particularly thick
(quite possible, it was a long weekend ;), I can't see how that
affects terminating characters. Without the SGML spec, what is a NET
character? It's just frustrating not to be able to get to the source
and find out what these things are.

Further googling lead to these which actually explain the issue, so
for anyone else who was confused:
http://www.rikkertkoppes.com/thoughts/2005/01/27/
http://lachy.id.au/log/2005/04/xhtml-future

Cheers,

-Alastair


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RE: [WSG] Web Accessibility Update from Shawn Henry, London, Tuesday 5 June

2007-05-29 Thread Steve Green
I'll be there. Anyone else?

Steve
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Swan, Henny
Sent: 29 May 2007 17:19
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Web Accessibility Update from Shawn Henry, London, Tuesday 5
June

Hi All,

Shawn Henry will be speaking about Web accessibility in London next week at
a free event at the University of Westminster hosted by RNIB. Shawn will
mostly talk about Web guidelines and standards, and also talk a little about
the relationship between accessibility and usability and designing positive
user experiences for people with disabilities.

Title:Web Accessibility Update: What's New, WCAG 2.0, and Current
Issues
Date:Tuesday June 5th
Time:6.45 so we can start at 7pm
Venue:Department of Electronics, Communications and Software
Engineering, Westminster University, New Cavendish Street campus
Location: The campus is a short walk from Goodge Street tube Registration
(free):
http://wailondon.eventwax.com/whats-new-wcag-20-and-current-issues---sha
wn-henry-web-accessibility-initiative
Description:
http://www.rnib.org.uk/wacblog/conferences/shawn-henry-from-wai-presents
-whats-new-wcag-20-and-current-issues-tuesday-june-5th-london/

Hopefully see a few of you there.

Henny
www.rnib.org.uk/wacblog


--
DISCLAIMER:

NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments is
confidential and may be privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient
you should not use, disclose, distribute or copy any of the content of it or
of any attachment; you are requested to notify the sender immediately of
your receipt of the email and then to delete it and any attachments from
your system.

RNIB endeavours to ensure that emails and any attachments generated by its
staff are free from viruses or other contaminants.  However, it cannot
accept any responsibility for any  such which are transmitted.
We therefore recommend you scan all attachments.

Please note that the statements and views expressed in this email and any
attachments are those of the author and do not necessarily represent those
of RNIB.

RNIB Registered Charity Number: 226227

Website: http://www.rnib.org.uk



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Re: [WSG] OT on list

2007-05-29 Thread Jamie Collins

The bottom line is, yes its ok to discuss Jaws as long as its related to Web
Standards.
Obviously photoshop has no relation to Web Standards, so the point of this
topic is
useless, next time reporting the issue to an Admin may be a better idea :)

On 5/29/07, Hassan Schroeder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Jamie Collins wrote:
 If you read what i said properly you will understand what i said.

If you read the original posting properly...  :-)

 Do you see the part that says'When Web Standards Are Involved'?
 I didnt mention photoshop anywere, i said when Web Standards are
Involved.

To quote the OP:

 now for second semester, will be using photo shop, to manipulate 2 and 3
d objects.
 now, is there any way to do this accessibly with jaws?

--
Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com
opinion: webtuitive.blogspot.com

  dream.  code.




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RE: [WSG] Web Accessibility Update from Shawn Henry, London, Tuesday 5 June

2007-05-29 Thread Swan, Henny
I'll be blogging it in the RNIB Web Access Centre blog
(www.rnib.org.uk/wacblog) and am hoping to also podcast it after the
event.

Henny 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of McLaughlin, Gail G
Sent: 29 May 2007 17:36
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Web Accessibility Update from Shawn Henry, London,
Tuesday 5 June

By an chance will Shawn's talk be available via web conferencing or
telephone or podcast?


On 5/29/07 11:19 AM, Swan, Henny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi All,
 
 Shawn Henry will be speaking about Web accessibility in London next 
 week at a free event at the University of Westminster hosted by RNIB. 
 Shawn will mostly talk about Web guidelines and standards, and also 
 talk a little about the relationship between accessibility and 
 usability and designing positive user experiences for people with
disabilities.
 
 Title:Web Accessibility Update: What's New, WCAG 2.0, and Current
 Issues
 Date:Tuesday June 5th
 Time:6.45 so we can start at 7pm
 Venue:Department of Electronics, Communications and Software
 Engineering, Westminster University, New Cavendish Street campus
 Location: The campus is a short walk from Goodge Street tube 
 Registration (free):
 http://wailondon.eventwax.com/whats-new-wcag-20-and-current-issues---s
 ha
 wn-henry-web-accessibility-initiative
 Description:
 http://www.rnib.org.uk/wacblog/conferences/shawn-henry-from-wai-presen
 ts -whats-new-wcag-20-and-current-issues-tuesday-june-5th-london/
 
 Hopefully see a few of you there.
 
 Henny
 www.rnib.org.uk/wacblog
 



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-- 
DISCLAIMER:

NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments is 
confidential and may be privileged.  If you are not the intended 
recipient you should not use, disclose, distribute or copy any of the 
content of it or of any attachment; you are requested to notify the 
sender immediately of your receipt of the email and then to delete it 
and any attachments from your system.

RNIB endeavours to ensure that emails and any attachments generated by
its staff are free from viruses or other contaminants.  However, it 
cannot accept any responsibility for any  such which are transmitted.
We therefore recommend you scan all attachments.

Please note that the statements and views expressed in this email and 
any attachments are those of the author and do not necessarily represent
those of RNIB.

RNIB Registered Charity Number: 226227

Website: http://www.rnib.org.uk



This message has been scanned for viruses by BlackSpider MailControl - 
www.blackspider.com


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RE: [WSG] Firefox Wmode

2007-05-29 Thread ByteDreams
Have you checked the adobe site for info?

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Gribben
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 12:28 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Firefox  Wmode

 

Hello,

 

Does anyone have any experience dealing with the bug in Firefox that
disables mouseover events in Flash when the animation file is placed in an
absolutely positioned element and the Wmode parameter of the animation is
set to transparent or opaque?  I've built a page where an animation is
positioned beneath some other elements, and a button is not clickable in
Firefox.

 

Thanks,

John


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Re: [WSG] OT on list

2007-05-29 Thread Jason Pruim


On 5/29/07, Hassan Schroeder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Jamie Collins wrote:
 If you read what i said properly you will understand what i said.

If you read the original posting properly...  :-)


Wouldn't that make the point and topic of this e-mail off topic?



 Do you see the part that says'When Web Standards Are Involved'?
 I didnt mention photoshop anywere, i said when Web Standards are  
Involved.


To quote the OP:

 now for second semester, will be using photo shop, to manipulate  
2 and 3 d objects.

 now, is there any way to do this accessibly with jaws?




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RE: [WSG] Firefox Wmode

2007-05-29 Thread Mark Hedley
 

 

Mark Hedley

Web Development Manager

Mayborn Baby  Child Division

 

 

http://www.tommeetippee.com http://www.tommeetippee.com/ 

 

Jackel International Limited is a company registered in England  Wales
(registered number 1894022). Our registered office is at Dudley Lane,
Cramlington, Northumberland, NE23 7RH.  Tel (0191) 2501864, Fax (0191)
2501727. Sangenic International Limited is a company registered in
England  Wales (registered number 1308939). Our registered office is at
Dudley Lane, Cramlington, Northumberland, NE23 7RH. Tel (0191) 2501864,
Fax (0191) 2501727. Jackel International and Sangenic International are
part of the Mayborn Group

 

This transmission and any attachments are confidential and are intended
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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of ByteDreams
Sent: 29 May 2007 18:36
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Firefox  Wmode

 

Have you checked the adobe site for info?

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of John Gribben
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 12:28 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Firefox  Wmode

 

Hello,

 

Does anyone have any experience dealing with the bug in Firefox that
disables mouseover events in Flash when the animation file is placed in
an absolutely positioned element and the Wmode parameter of the
animation is set to transparent or opaque?  I've built a page where
an animation is positioned beneath some other elements, and a button is
not clickable in Firefox.

 

Thanks,

John


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RE: [WSG] Firefox Wmode

2007-05-29 Thread Mark Hedley
Have you tried giving the element a z-index?

 

I used to have similar issues with a menu which displayed over a flash
element. Using a z-index solved this.

 

Hope that's useful?

 

Regards,

 

Mark Hedley

Web Development Manager

Tommee Tippee

http://www.tommeetippee.com/

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of ByteDreams
Sent: 29 May 2007 18:36
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Firefox  Wmode

 

Have you checked the adobe site for info?

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of John Gribben
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 12:28 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Firefox  Wmode

 

Hello,

 

Does anyone have any experience dealing with the bug in Firefox that
disables mouseover events in Flash when the animation file is placed in
an absolutely positioned element and the Wmode parameter of the
animation is set to transparent or opaque?  I've built a page where
an animation is positioned beneath some other elements, and a button is
not clickable in Firefox.

 

Thanks,

John


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RE: [WSG] Firefox Wmode

2007-05-29 Thread Ted Drake
 John wrote:  

 

Hello,

 

Does anyone have any experience dealing with the bug in Firefox that
disables mouseover events in Flash when the animation file is placed in an
absolutely positioned element and the Wmode parameter of the animation is
set to transparent or opaque?  I've built a page where an animation is
positioned beneath some other elements, and a button is not clickable in
Firefox.

 

Thanks,

John

---

 

Do you have other flash items on the page?

 

We had a problem like this while building Yahoo! Tech. We played around with
z-index elements for days. Eventually, we discovered an overlapping flash
module that was actually throwing a transparent layer above other elements.
While the bad flash movie was fairly small, it had animated sections that
grew and caused the problem.  Also go through your javascript and look for
anything that is creating a container with z-index that could be causing an
overlap. 

 

I hope that helps

Ted Drake

www.last-child.com http://www.last-child.com/ 

 

 

 


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RE: [WSG] Firefox Wmode

2007-05-29 Thread Mark Hedley
Just set the element with a z-index and the problem will be solved.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Ted Drake
Sent: 29 May 2007 19:27
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Firefox  Wmode

 

 John wrote:  

 

Hello,

 

Does anyone have any experience dealing with the bug in Firefox that
disables mouseover events in Flash when the animation file is placed in
an absolutely positioned element and the Wmode parameter of the
animation is set to transparent or opaque?  I've built a page where
an animation is positioned beneath some other elements, and a button is
not clickable in Firefox.

 

Thanks,

John

---

 

Do you have other flash items on the page?

 

We had a problem like this while building Yahoo! Tech. We played around
with z-index elements for days. Eventually, we discovered an overlapping
flash module that was actually throwing a transparent layer above other
elements. While the bad flash movie was fairly small, it had animated
sections that grew and caused the problem.  Also go through your
javascript and look for anything that is creating a container with
z-index that could be causing an overlap. 

 

I hope that helps

Ted Drake

www.last-child.com http://www.last-child.com/ 

 

 

 


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Re: [WSG] need help with tabular interface

2007-05-29 Thread Sander Aarts


Nick Fitzsimons schreef:

On 29 May 2007, at 02:10:02, Sander Aarts wrote:

I'm glad the designers I work with know that rounded corners can be a 
real pain in the ass, so they always ask before implementing them in 
the design.


I want your designers! ;-)
Well, it's only because they know that otherwise I'd have to punish them 
real hard ;-)



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Re: [WSG] OT on list

2007-05-29 Thread Kevin Ross

My apologies to the group... I was not aware of the CMS list.

Is there a way to have the entire post,
http://www.mail-archive.com/wsg@webstandardsgroup.org/msg28689.html

ported over to the [WSG-CMS] list?


Regards,
Kevin.

On 5/29/07, Nick Gleitzman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hi folks

Is it just me. or have a whole slew of recent posts been OT?

CMS: there's a CMS list just for you guys. Please use it...
Photoshop and JAWS: sorry, Marvin, but that's just OT for this list.

Can we get back to the on topic issues of Web Standards, perchance?

Check the guidelines - if you you need to preface a post with, This is
probably OT, but... then it is. So don't post...

Thanks

N
___
omnivision. websight.
http://www.omnivision.com.au/

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RE: [WSG] OT on list

2007-05-29 Thread Mark Hedley
Where on the site do you sign up for the CMS List? I am also after
support from people in this list.

 

Cheers,

Mark

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Kevin Ross
Sent: 29 May 2007 20:04
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] OT on list

 

My apologies to the group... I was not aware of the CMS list.

Is there a way to have the entire post,
http://www.mail-archive.com/wsg@webstandardsgroup.org/msg28689.html 

ported over to the [WSG-CMS] list?


Regards,
Kevin.

On 5/29/07, Nick Gleitzman [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:

Hi folks

Is it just me. or have a whole slew of recent posts been OT? 

CMS: there's a CMS list just for you guys. Please use it...
Photoshop and JAWS: sorry, Marvin, but that's just OT for this list.

Can we get back to the on topic issues of Web Standards, perchance? 

Check the guidelines - if you you need to preface a post with, This is
probably OT, but... then it is. So don't post...

Thanks

N
___
omnivision. websight. 
http://www.omnivision.com.au/

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Re: [WSG] OT on list

2007-05-29 Thread Sander Aarts


Nick Fitzsimons schreef:

On 29 May 2007, at 16:20:28, Barney Carroll wrote:

Would you argue that a discussion of the use of Jaws with Microsoft 
Excel (which is, judging by the manufacturer's FAQs, one of its 
commonest uses) is related to Web Standards?

No, because MS and Web Standards ar enot related at all ;-)




...oh, sorry...


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RE: [WSG] OT on list

2007-05-29 Thread Web Dandy Design
Hi Mark,

You can sign up for the CMS list by logging into WSG at
http://webstandardsgroup.org/manage/login_edit.cfm then set your preferences
to Full CMS list or CMS list in digest mode.

Regards,

Elaine
http://www.webdandy.co.uk





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Re: [WSG] OT on list

2007-05-29 Thread Micky Hulse

Mark Hedley wrote:
Where on the site do you sign up for the CMS List? I am also after 
support from people in this list.


Yeah, the CMS list is hard to find.

I signed-up for it when I signed-up for this list... Other than that, I 
have not found any reference to the CMS list on the net.


I would love to see a webpage that talks about the CMS list... It would 
be a great way to spread the word about the WSG-CMS list.


I emailed WSG tech support about this, but have yet to hear back from 
anyone. :)


So, anyone know of a webpage that talks about the WSG-CMS and how one 
would become a member of that listserv?


Thanks!
M

--
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 BCC?: http://snipurl.com/w6f8
   My: http://del.icio.us/mhulse


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Re: self-closing tags in HTML, was: [WSG] A CMS for POSH sites?

2007-05-29 Thread Lachlan Hunt

Alastair Campbell wrote:

On 5/29/07, Rimantas Liubertas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/sgml/sgmldecl.html
FEATURES, SHORTTAG YES


I guess from that I should deduce that I do need to know the SGML spec
to know that a slash will terminate a tag?

I hope HTML5 does away with this...


HTML5 disposes of the myth that HTML is an application of SGML, so you 
don't need to understand SGML at all.  In fact, in HTML5, the trailing 
slash is explicitly permitted for void elements, though it's not 
necessary.  Void elements (formerly known as empty elements in SGML) are 
elements like br, img, meta, etc.


Thus, in HTML5, both img and img/ are permitted and mean the same 
thing.  The slash is ignored by the parser.  However, the slash is not 
permitted for non-empty elements.  e.g. p/ is not allowed in HTML, 
though it is in XHTML because XML rules apply.


--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/


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Re: [WSG] OT on list

2007-05-29 Thread Nick Gleitzman

Stuart Foulstone wrote:


Assistive technology off topic?


Barney Carroll wrote:

It's worth making the point: Don't get intimidated by this - JAWS is a 
perfectly legitimate thing to discuss here.


When it's used to access Photoshop - which in my experience doesn't 
have a whole lot to do with Web Standards - yes, it's OT.


Just to fill in a small blank for those who don't know: Marvin, who 
asked the original question, is blind, so the use of JAWS is immensely 
more relevant to him than it is to we sighted members. But the simple 
fact remains, that while I hope that Marvin can get the help and advice 
he needs, this ain't the place to ask.


Barney Carroll also wrote:

But I digress: Let's see how popular we can make this thread. A web 
standards list about grammar, oblique self-references and wilful 
misunderstanding, that's what we could all do with. Hehehe.


You guys crack me up. Anyone like to hear what I did on my holidays?

N
___
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http://www.omnivision.com.au/



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Re: self-closing tags in HTML, was: [WSG] A CMS for POSH sites?

2007-05-29 Thread Lachlan Hunt

Alastair Campbell wrote:

On 5/29/07, Nick Fitzsimons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

The topic under discussion is, as I mentioned in my earlier post,
mentioned in HTML 4.01 at
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/appendix/notes.html#h-B.3.7
as being something with poor support in HTML user agents.


Which I read, thank you, but unless I'm being particularly thick
(quite possible, it was a long weekend ;), I can't see how that
affects terminating characters. Without the SGML spec, what is a NET
character? It's just frustrating not to be able to get to the source
and find out what these things are.


SGML and HTML Explained by Martin Bryan [1] will explain everything you 
need to know about SGML.  In particular, chapter 4 explains the SHORTTAG 
NET features.  Figure 4.4 [2] lists the default delimiter characters 
from the reference concrete syntax, which includes:


   / NET Null end-tag

That can be set in the SGML declaration, but because it's not explicitly 
set in HTML4, it uses the default.


[1] http://www.is-thought.co.uk/book/
[2] http://www.is-thought.co.uk/book/sgml-4.htm#Fig4-4

--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/


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Re: [WSG] OT on list - ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED

2007-05-29 Thread russ - maxdesign
Enough with the discussion on off topic on topic.
Causing far to much green house gas emissions.


Thanks
Russ




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Re: [WSG] need help with tabular interface

2007-05-29 Thread kevin mcmonagle
Ive been following the sliding doors II article and have it working 
somewhat well. However I cant see the reason for the 1st set of 
decendent selectors below. The second set with the anchor tag is used to 
create the current link state but I dont see what the first set is 
for. The first selector in comma separated pairs are used to id in the 
body tag. Can someone explain this?

||
http://alistapart.com/d/slidingdoors2/v1/ex10a.html

|*#home #nav-home, #news #nav-news,
#products #nav-products, 
#about #nav-about,

#contact #nav-contact* {
 background-position:0% -150px;
 border-width:0;
 }


*#home #nav-home a, 
#news #nav-news a,
#products #nav-products a, 
#about #nav-about a,

#contact #nav-contact a* {
 background-position:100% -150px;
 color:#333;
 padding-bottom:5px;
 }



thanks 
kevin mcmonagle

|





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[WSG] WCAG 2.0

2007-05-29 Thread Dejan Kozina

Hi all.
This one didn't make it to the Reccomended readings, but it seems well 
worth to me:

http://accessites.org/site/2007/05/wcag2-woeful-to-wonderful-in-one-easy-draft/

djn

--
-
Dejan Kozina
Dolina 346 (TS) - I-34018 Italy
tel./fax: +39 040 228 436 - cell.: +39 348 7355 225 skype: dejankozina
http://www.kozina.com/  - e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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FW: RE: Re: [WSG] Accessible Photoshop and flash

2007-05-29 Thread marvin hunkin




From: Daniel Longstaff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: marvin hunkin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Re: [WSG] Accessible Photoshop and flash
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 11:03:13 +0930

Hi Marvin

I'm not quite sure if you understand what will be required in these
subjects. Photoshop and Flash are only the tools being used in these
subjects. The actual assessment is creating and manipulating visual
objects.  For example:

1. In 4MDI you need to be able to capture a number of photographic
images using a digital camera, then use photoshop to manipulate these
images. This involves brightness, contrast, cropping, colour depth,
quality, compression, editting the photo etc. It also involves you be
able to create a images and buttons that can be used in websites.

2. In 4M2D you need to create 2D animations using Flash. Once again this
is all visual and requires little coding. The advanced subject involves
action script.

Regards
Daniel

-Original Message-
From: marvin hunkin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 30 May 2007 10:36 AM
To: Daniel Longstaff
Subject: FW: Re: [WSG] Accessible Photoshop and flash




From: Robert O'Rourke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: marvin hunkin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessible Photoshop and flash
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 10:13:50 +0100

marvin hunkin wrote:
Hi.
doing certificate iv in web site development at my local college.
now for second semester, will be using photo shop, to manipulate 2 and
3 d objects.
now, is there any way to do this accessibly with jaws?
also, need to use flash, to create 2 and 3 d buttons, objects, etc.
is there an accessible way to code this?
let me know asap.
cheers Marvin.



Hi Marvin,
Firstly with regards to using photoshop it has nothing to do with
website accessibility in terms of jaws unless you are putting the
website text into the image which is bad practice for larger blocks of
text. Any text contained in images needs to be in the HTML or in the alt
attribute of img tags. Basically what a lot of people doing web design
do these days is design their site in photoshop including the text, the
backgrounds, any icons etc... and then slice that image up in such a way
that they can recreate the design by using css. So long as you maintain
the separation between the content (all text and images) and the design
(the visual representation on screen e.g. background colours, fonts
etc...) then your site should be accessible.

Flash is currently not accessible to Jaws or any screen readers
although there are methods for only sending it to the people who can use
it. Using flash for buttons is a nice way to create animations however
it is now an old practice. It's better to use animated gifs as link
backgrounds so you can change them via css when you hover over a link.
Saying that you should do what you have to for your course (learning
flash is useful) but ask your tutor about accessibility and the use of
flash so you know what to consider when using it.

Rob
Hi Daniel.
could you please read this and pass it on to lowan and the other members
of your team.
got some responses from some of the blind mailling lists, regarding web
accessability, photoshop and flash.
cheers Marvin.

_
Advertisement: Show me the money! Upgrade your pay at www.seek.com.au
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eexecutive%2Ese
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%3Atext_t=763838044_r=seek_may07_upgradepay_m=EXT

Hi.
this is what i got from my lecturer.
if any one has done these subjects, using jaws or any other screen reader 
let me know.

cheers marvin.

_
Advertisement: Your Future Starts Here. Dream it? Then be it! Find it at 
www.seek.com.au 
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau%2F%3Ftracking%3Dsk%3Ahet%3Ask%3Anine%3A0%3Ahot%3Atext_t=763838044_r=seek_may07_futurestartshere_m=EXT




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RE: [WSG] Site Review (www.richardson.co.nz)

2007-05-29 Thread Snadden Tim
 
 www.richardson.co.nz
 

In Firefox 2/Opera on Windows the lightbox images show 'null' as the
caption.

All the best. 
This email with any attachments is confidential and may be subject to legal 
privilege.  
If it is not intended for you please reply immediately, destroy it and do not 
copy, disclose or use it in any way. 


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Re: FW: RE: Re: [WSG] Accessible Photoshop and flash

2007-05-29 Thread Katrina


 Subject: FW: Re: [WSG] Accessible Photoshop and flash


 

Flash is currently not accessible to Jaws or any screen readers
although there are methods for only sending it to the people who can use
it. 
Rob




As far as I understood, the latest version of Adobe Flash *is* 
accessible to Jaws and Windows-Eyes, on Windows-based operating systems, 
through MSAA (Microsoft Active Accessibility).


http://www.adobe.com/resources/accessibility/flash8/author.html

Kat




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