Re: [WSG] Auto scaling within a table's background image

2007-08-01 Thread Stuart Foulstone
Hi,

This is the Web Standards Group.

Web Standards say only use tables for tabular data - not presentation.

I'm not sure what your tabular data is here?

-- 
Stuart Foulstone.
http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk
BigEasy Web Design
69 Flockton Court
Rockingham Street
Sheffield
S1 4EB

Tel. 07751 413451

On Tue, July 31, 2007 5:02 pm, Matt  wrote:
 My goal is to set the background image of a table and add individual cells
 (text or images) that can be opaque or transparent. The height and width
 of
 the table is fixed. The image that needs to be set in the table background
 however, is not under my control, and can be larger or smaller than the
 table's viewing area. Tagging the code as shown below does not
 automatically
 up/down-scale the image to fit within the desired viewing area:

 table width=100 height=50 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0
 border=0

 style=background-image:url(images/image1.gif);background-position:
 center;
background-repeat: no-repeat; background-attachment:
 fixed;
   tr
 td
   img src=...
 /td
 td width=30/td
 td
   some text here...
 /td
   /tr
 /table

 Is there a standardized way to present this without resolving to a
 Javascript or CSS hack ?

 Matt


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Re: [WSG] Auto scaling within a table's background image

2007-08-01 Thread lisa herrod
Hi there


On 01/08/07, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

 This is the Web Standards Group.

 Web Standards say only use tables for tabular data - not presentation.


Stuart, I think you're referring to WGAG 1. It does *sort of* say
that, but not quite...

While it's not best practice to use tables for layout, it's not
illegal. if that were the case, I'd have been locked up for a long
time in the late 90's :)

I'm not at all advocating the use of tables for layout, but where it
is absolutely necessary:


5.3 Do not use tables for layout unless the table makes sense when
linearized. Otherwise, if the table does not make sense, provide an
alternative equivalent (which may be a linearized version).

5.4 If a table is used for layout, do not use any structural markup
for the purpose of visual formatting.

[WCAG 1.0 P2]

hope that clears it up a bit...

Lisa


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Re: [WSG] Auto scaling within a table's background image

2007-08-01 Thread lisa herrod
On 01/08/07, David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 1 Aug 2007, at 09:34, lisa herrod wrote:
  On 01/08/07, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Web Standards say only use tables for tabular data - not
  presentation.
 
  Stuart, I think you're referring to WGAG 1.

 Lets look at HTML 4.01 instead, which is somewhat clearer on the
 subject:

hmmm I must have missed the email re doctype. Matt, what doctype
are you using?
in any case, I don't think it really matters.

Let's get back on topic.

Matt, your initial question was:

Is there a standardized way to present this without resolving to a
Javascript or CSS hack ?

I'd say you have two choices: tables or CSS (or both).

Most people will advise against you using tables for layout. However,
if you do use them... don't nest them and don't use any markup that
will identify them as tabular data - unless it is.

Guys feel free to jump in with any CSS layout advice! :)

Lisa


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[WSG] CSS height/padding

2007-08-01 Thread Christian Fagan

Hi all,

I have previously tried to create a horizontal page navigation with a 
fixed height but there seems to be two distinct problems with the two 
methods that I have used to date.


1) The first method employs top and bottom padding on a elements to 
vertically centre the text within the anchor box. This method works 
fine, until the text is re-sized.
2) The second method involves declaring a height for the a element but 
then the text is top aligned vertically (looks ugly).


I have also tried declaring top padding combined with a height value to 
lessen the text resize issue but I would like to hear from anyone who 
knows a way to align text vertically, as well as assign a set height to 
elements (particularly a elements in a horizontal nav structure).


Thanks.

--
Christian Fagan
Fagan Design

fagandesign.com.au
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: [WSG] Auto scaling within a table's background image

2007-08-01 Thread David Dorward


On 1 Aug 2007, at 09:34, lisa herrod wrote:

On 01/08/07, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Web Standards say only use tables for tabular data - not  
presentation.


Stuart, I think you're referring to WGAG 1.


Lets look at HTML 4.01 instead, which is somewhat clearer on the  
subject:


Tables should not be used purely as a means to layout document  
content as this may present problems when rendering to non-visual  
media. Additionally, when used with graphics, these tables may force  
users to scroll horizontally to view a table designed on a system  
with a larger display. To minimize these problems, authors should use  
style sheets to control layout rather than tables.


 -- http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/tables.html


I'm not at all advocating the use of tables for layout, but where it
is absolutely necessary:


I don't think I've ever encountered a situation where it was  
absolutely necessary to use tables for layout. It might be the only  
way to achieve a given presentation, but is that presentation really  
absolutely necessary?


--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/
http://blog.dorward.me.uk/




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Re: [WSG] CSS height/padding

2007-08-01 Thread al morris
Hi Christian,

Use option 1 with em units instead of pixels for your top and bottom
padding. The padding will increase as the text resizes.

Al

On 8/1/07, Christian Fagan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi all,

 I have previously tried to create a horizontal page navigation with a
 fixed height but there seems to be two distinct problems with the two
 methods that I have used to date.

 1) The first method employs top and bottom padding on a elements to
 vertically centre the text within the anchor box. This method works
 fine, until the text is re-sized.
 2) The second method involves declaring a height for the a element but
 then the text is top aligned vertically (looks ugly).

 I have also tried declaring top padding combined with a height value to
 lessen the text resize issue but I would like to hear from anyone who
 knows a way to align text vertically, as well as assign a set height to
 elements (particularly a elements in a horizontal nav structure).

 Thanks.

 --
 Christian Fagan
 Fagan Design

 fagandesign.com.au
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: [WSG] CSS height/padding

2007-08-01 Thread Daniel Kendrick
I agree Al.

Christian its not bad. There are MANY pixel to em calcs online to google it.
:)

--DK

On 8/1/07, al morris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi Christian,

 Use option 1 with em units instead of pixels for your top and bottom
 padding. The padding will increase as the text resizes.

 Al

 On 8/1/07, Christian Fagan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Hi all,
 
  I have previously tried to create a horizontal page navigation with a
  fixed height but there seems to be two distinct problems with the two
  methods that I have used to date.
 
  1) The first method employs top and bottom padding on a elements to
  vertically centre the text within the anchor box. This method works
  fine, until the text is re-sized.
  2) The second method involves declaring a height for the a element but
  then the text is top aligned vertically (looks ugly).
 
  I have also tried declaring top padding combined with a height value to
  lessen the text resize issue but I would like to hear from anyone who
  knows a way to align text vertically, as well as assign a set height to
  elements (particularly a elements in a horizontal nav structure).
 
  Thanks.
 
  --
  Christian Fagan
  Fagan Design
 
  fagandesign.com.au
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WSG] CSS height/padding

2007-08-01 Thread Tom Livingston
On 8/1/07, Daniel Kendrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I agree Al.

 Christian its not bad. There are MANY pixel to em calcs online to google it.
 :)

 --DK


I use this religiously (well, ya know...):

http://riddle.pl/emcalc/

-- 


Tom Livingston | Senior Multimedia Artist | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com


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Re: [WSG] CSS height/padding

2007-08-01 Thread E Michael Brandt
If I understand what you are asking, try using line-height instead of 
what you are doing now.  That will keep the text centered vertically in 
the element.


--

E. Michael Brandt

www.divaHTML.com
divaGPS : you-are-here menu highlighting
divaFAQ : FAQ pages with pizazz

www.valleywebdesigns.com
JustSo PictureWindow
JustSo PhotoAlbum

--

Christian Fagan wrote:

Hi all,

I have previously tried to create a horizontal page navigation with a 
fixed height but there seems to be two distinct problems with the two 
methods that I have used to date.


1) The first method employs top and bottom padding on a elements to 
vertically centre the text within the anchor box. This method works 
fine, until the text is re-sized.
2) The second method involves declaring a height for the a element but 
then the text is top aligned vertically (looks ugly).


I have also tried declaring top padding combined with a height value to 
lessen the text resize issue but I would like to hear from anyone who 
knows a way to align text vertically, as well as assign a set height to 
elements (particularly a elements in a horizontal nav structure).


Thanks.





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[WSG] Re: WSG Digest (Out of the office until 6/08/2007)

2007-08-01 Thread Marian WEATHERSTONE
I am currently out of the office until Monday 6 August 2007.  
If you have an enquiry please contact:

Martha Herewini on 9391 9048
or Saikat Choudhury on 9391 9769


Regards, Marian Weatherstone
Web Support Officer
NSW Department of Health

__
This email has been scanned for the NSW Department of Health by the MessageLabs 
Email Security System. The Department regularly monitors emails and attachments 
to ensure compliance with its Electronic Messaging Policy.
_


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Re: [WSG] Auto scaling within a table's background image

2007-08-01 Thread Hassan Schroeder

Matt  wrote:

I guess there were a couple of concerns raised. One of them was the 
justification of the table's use. I chose it only because it 
is currently the only way I know to put pretty borders (outer and 
inner) around and within an image. 

/
I'm still waiting on someone to post a newer standardized approach to 
acheive the same effect.


I think you'd have a better chance of getting specific help if you
posted a complete example (or two) of your current approach. :-)

--
Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

   dream.  code.



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Re: [WSG] Auto scaling within a table's background image

2007-08-01 Thread Matt 0000
Hassan,
The specific portion of the code I'm having a problem with was
inlcuded on my first post. The code that was not included is just
regular table based border wrapping. I bet most if not all the members
here are of the been there, done that experience level, which is why
I didn't bother illustrating it.

I'm going to write an example here for your convenience:


table id=outer_layout width=100 border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0
!-- 1st row begins here --
tr
td width=10 height=10
  img src=top_left.gif width=10 height=10
/td

td width=80 height=10
  img src=top.gif width=80 height=10
/td

td width=10 height=10
  img src=top_right.gif width=10 height=10
/td
/tr
!-- 1st row ends here --


!-- 2nd row begins here --
td width=10 height=80
  img src=left.gif width=10  height=80
/td

!-- CONTENT GOES HERE --

td width=10 height=80
  img src=right.gif width=10  height=80
/td
!-- 2nd row ends here --


!-- 3rd row begins here --
tr
td width=10 height=10
  img src=bottom_left.gif width=10 height=10
/td

td width=80 height=10
  img src=bottom.gif width=80 height=10
/td

td width=10 height=10
  img src=bottom_right.gif width=10 height=10
/td
/tr
!-- 3rd row ends here --


The portion commented as CONTENT GOES HERE is a placeholder for how
an image needs to be displayed. A simple img embedded in a td will
work. For another notch, a table element that allows it cells to act
as overlays is possible too. This is the approach I've taken. A rough
example was included on my first post. If you follow the responses to
it, there were suggestions to get most of what I intended it for, done
in CSS, as it was considered standard. So the quote below was meant to
be a response to individuals who knew how.

  I'm still waiting on someone to post a newer standardized approach to
  acheive the same effect.

Matt


On 8/1/07, Hassan Schroeder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Matt  wrote:

  I guess there were a couple of concerns raised. One of them was the
  justification of the table's use. I chose it only because it
  is currently the only way I know to put pretty borders (outer and
  inner) around and within an image.
 /
  I'm still waiting on someone to post a newer standardized approach to
  acheive the same effect.

 I think you'd have a better chance of getting specific help if you
 posted a complete example (or two) of your current approach. :-)

 --
 Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

dream.  code.



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Re: [WSG] CSS height/padding

2007-08-01 Thread Christian Fagan

Thankyou for responses...

Thanks Michael, this is what I was after

E Michael Brandt wrote:
If I understand what you are asking, try using line-height instead of 
what you are doing now.  That will keep the text centered vertically 
in the element.




--
Christian Fagan
Fagan Design

fagandesign.com.au
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: [WSG] Auto scaling within a table's background image

2007-08-01 Thread Hassan Schroeder

Matt  wrote:


The specific portion of the code I'm having a problem with was
inlcuded on my first post. The code that was not included is just
regular table based border wrapping. I bet most if not all the members
here are of the been there, done that experience level, which is why
I didn't bother illustrating it.


Yeah, been there, done that (since 1993), but...


I'm going to write an example here for your convenience:


..without a real sample /with images/, I don't know if your border
is supposed to be solid color, a complex geometric pattern that has
to match at the corners, a cutout piece of a photo-realistic image,
what -- and it *does* make a difference how *I*, at least, would
approach this problem using CSS.

Hence my suggestion that you provide a *real* example. Or two :-)

--
Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

   dream.  code.



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RE: [WSG] Auto scaling within a table's background image

2007-08-01 Thread Kepler Gelotte
 My dilemna was and still is to autofit an image of any size (entire image
should be viewable) within the table's background image property using the
style attribute. This table is currently no more than roughly 100 pixels
on either side. 

 

Hi Matt,

 

Here is a sample mockup I created using an overlay technique. Substitute the
table for the div in your case. A better approach may be to resize the image
on the server when the user uploads it using the GD2 library. I used the
image resizing and cropping facilities for my home grown CMS.

 

html

head

style

 
img.stretch {

 
width: 500px;

 
height: 300px;

 
z-index: -1;

 
position: absolute;

 
top: 50;

 
left: 50;

}

 

 
div.overlay {

 
width: 500px;

 
height: 300px;

 
z-index: 1;

 
position: absolute;

 
top: 50;

 
left: 50;

}

/style

/head

body

div class=overlayHere is
some text/div

img src=logo.jpg
class=stretch /

/body

/html

 

 

Best of luck,

Kepler Gelotte



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Re: [WSG] CSS height/padding

2007-08-01 Thread E Michael Brandt

You're very welcome.  There are a bewildering array of tricks with CSS.

--

E. Michael Brandt

www.divaHTML.com
divaGPS : you-are-here menu highlighting
divaFAQ : FAQ pages with pizazz

www.valleywebdesigns.com
JustSo PictureWindow
JustSo PhotoAlbum

--

Christian Fagan wrote:

Thankyou for responses...

Thanks Michael, this is what I was after

E Michael Brandt wrote:
If I understand what you are asking, try using line-height instead of 
what you are doing now.  That will keep the text centered vertically 
in the element.








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[WSG] vCard File

2007-08-01 Thread Joyce Evans
I think there may have been a discussion regarding the vCard File recently,
and if there was, I didn't study those emails because I didn't have to deal
with it at the time.  Today, however, I got a new project of re-creating a
website with the current design.  On this client's contact page, there is a
link to the .vcf file, which when I click on it, the client's contact
information appears in the Contacts section of my Outlook program.  I've
never seen a link to a vCard File on a website until today.  Is it okay to
have this link?  What happens if the visitor to the website does not use
Outlook?  Thank you.

 

Joyce

 

 



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RE: [WSG] vCard File

2007-08-01 Thread Paul Bennett
Hi Joyce,
 
It looks like vCard is a standard, so I guess the user's email client would 
pick it up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VCard

HTH,
Paul 


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Re: [WSG] vCard File

2007-08-01 Thread Lucien Stals
Oh, you so just put a huge smile on my face :D

Thanks for the technorati link. I was unaware of this, and it makes all
the work I did on microformats on my  staff listing page worth it.
(http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ads/about/staff.htm)

Thanks.

Lucien.
-- 

Lucien Stals
Multimedia/Web Developer
Academic Development and Support
Swinburne University of Technology
PO Box 218 Hawthorn, 3122, Australia
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
telephone: +61 3 9214 4474
office: AD223


 On 2/08/2007 at 1:30 pm, Brad Pollard [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
 vCard's (.vcf files) will also open in a Mac OS X Address book.
 Not everyone will have a VCF compatible address book and hence an
attempt 
 should be made to educate/explain their use.
 
 You should mark up the displayed address information as an hCard: 
 http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard 
 ... and then use the technorati vcard generator 
 http://technorati.com/contact to scrape the page and produce your
vcard for 
 you
 
 Can someone please suggest a cool icon for vCard downloads? It must
be 2.0 
 of course :-)
 
 
   - Original Message - 
   From: Joyce Evans 
   To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
   Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 12:51 PM
   Subject: [WSG] vCard File
 
 
   I think there may have been a discussion regarding the vCard File 
 recently, and if there was, I didn't study those emails because I
didn't have 
 to deal with it at the time.  Today, however, I got a new project of

 re-creating a website with the current design.  On this client's
contact 
 page, there is a link to the .vcf file, which when I click on it, the

 client's contact information appears in the Contacts section of my
Outlook 
 program.  I've never seen a link to a vCard File on a website until
today.  
 Is it okay to have this link?  What happens if the visitor to the
website 
 does not use Outlook?  Thank you.
 
 
 
   Joyce
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
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CRICOS Provider Code: 00111D

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***BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:2.1
X-GWTYPE:USER
FN:Lucien Stals
TEL;WORK:4474
ORG:;Academic Development and Support
EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
N:Stals;Lucien
END:VCARD



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Re: [WSG] vCard File

2007-08-01 Thread Brad Pollard
vCard's (.vcf files) will also open in a Mac OS X Address book.
Not everyone will have a VCF compatible address book and hence an attempt 
should be made to educate/explain their use.

You should mark up the displayed address information as an hCard: 
http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard
... and then use the technorati vcard generator http://technorati.com/contact 
to scrape the page and produce your vcard for you

Can someone please suggest a cool icon for vCard downloads? It must be 2.0 of 
course :-)


  - Original Message - 
  From: Joyce Evans 
  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
  Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 12:51 PM
  Subject: [WSG] vCard File


  I think there may have been a discussion regarding the vCard File recently, 
and if there was, I didn't study those emails because I didn't have to deal 
with it at the time.  Today, however, I got a new project of re-creating a 
website with the current design.  On this client's contact page, there is a 
link to the .vcf file, which when I click on it, the client's contact 
information appears in the Contacts section of my Outlook program.  I've never 
seen a link to a vCard File on a website until today.  Is it okay to have this 
link?  What happens if the visitor to the website does not use Outlook?  Thank 
you.



  Joyce






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Re: [WSG] vCard File

2007-08-01 Thread Kit Grose
A vCard is an industry standard format. It works in Outlook or  
Windows Address Book in Windows, Entourage and Address Book in OS X  
and if your mobile phone was released in the last 5 or so years,  
likely it as well.


vCard files are often attached to outgoing emails in the corporate  
world as a better alternative to a text signature.


If you're considering including vCards, it might be worth checking  
out microformats (http://microformats.org/) while you're at it.


Kit Grose

On 02/08/2007, at 12.51 PM, Joyce Evans wrote:

I think there may have been a discussion regarding the vCard File  
recently, and if there was, I didn’t study those emails because I  
didn’t have to deal with it at the time.  Today, however, I got a  
new project of re-creating a website with the current design.  On  
this client’s contact page, there is a link to the .vcf file, which  
when I click on it, the client’s contact information appears in the  
Contacts section of my Outlook program.  I’ve never seen a link to  
a vCard File on a website until today.  Is it okay to have this  
link?  What happens if the visitor to the website does not use  
Outlook?  Thank you.


Joyce



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