[WSG] Load Javascript early or on-demand?
G'day all, I've had some internal debate about this topic, so I thought I'd put it to the list: Imagine a large (300 dynamic pages+) site with a real client focus on speed. An average user is expected to visit around 5% of the site per visit (~15 pages), and the user is expected to visit with an unprimed cache around 75% of the time. One very popular page of the site expects to get hits from more than half of all visitors, and uses all kinds of (unobtrusive) Javascript goodies, requiring Script.aculo.us (and therefore Prototype). The page is the only page on the entire site that uses either library. The server is quite slow, so HTTP requests are at a premium. So the question I ask is this: do you 1. load the libraries as part of the global header on every page so that visitors to the swishy page aren't waiting an exorbitant time to view all the Javascript goodies while waiting for two entire JS libraries (and the actual behaviour for the page) to download, but extending the initial load time of the site, or 2. load the libraries on the page in question only, slowing the intra- site navigation, but not penalising users who never intend to visit that particular page of the site. In essence, is it more important to optimise the initial load time, or load-time per subsequent page? Cheers, Kit Grose Frontend Developer iQmultimedia [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: [WSG] Load Javascript early or on-demand?
Kit, Seems like you answered your own question there. The only added benefit of putting the script in the header of every page, is that for the first time the script is downloaded, every subsequent page load will not require the same download again, even your Javascript reliant page. If you are talking about only half of your site visitors viewing this Javascript page FIRST, It seems foolish to make the other half suffer. Also, this other half will be bogging down your server for the said script files. I would seriously suggest you consider the usual methods of improving performance. Consider looking at YSLOW, a popular extension to Firebug that Yahoo have developed that outlines some of these methods. Yahoo cares about every byte that goes out of their servers. One thing that I would really recommend straight off the bat is obtaining a minified version of Prototype and Scriptaculous (Protoculous I think its called). This will reduce the number of requests to some rather large files. Also, if you are only including the effects.js aspects of Scriptaculous, do not include scriptaculous.js by itself. Finally, make sure your server can Gzip on the wire as this will reduce your bandwidth usage and reduce page load times substantially (but may hammer your webserver a bit). Karl On 10/9/07, Kit Grose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: G'day all, I've had some internal debate about this topic, so I thought I'd put it to the list: Imagine a large (300 dynamic pages+) site with a real client focus on speed. An average user is expected to visit around 5% of the site per visit (~15 pages), and the user is expected to visit with an unprimed cache around 75% of the time. One very popular page of the site expects to get hits from more than half of all visitors, and uses all kinds of (unobtrusive) Javascript goodies, requiring Script.aculo.us (and therefore Prototype). The page is the only page on the entire site that uses either library. The server is quite slow, so HTTP requests are at a premium. So the question I ask is this: do you 1. load the libraries as part of the global header on every page so that visitors to the swishy page aren't waiting an exorbitant time to view all the Javascript goodies while waiting for two entire JS libraries (and the actual behaviour for the page) to download, but extending the initial load time of the site, or 2. load the libraries on the page in question only, slowing the intra- site navigation, but not penalising users who never intend to visit that particular page of the site. In essence, is it more important to optimise the initial load time, or load-time per subsequent page? Cheers, Kit Grose Frontend Developer iQmultimedia [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Load Javascript early or on-demand?
Hi Kit, Don't know if this will help, but Simon Willison created an addLoadEvent(func) to get multiple scripts loading correctly on a page. Please see his blog: http://simonwillison.net/2004/May/26/addLoadEvent/ Kind regards, Frank M. Palinkas Microsoft M.V.P. - Windows Help W3C HTML Working Group (H.T.M.L.W.G.) - Invited Expert M.C.P., M.C.T., M.C.S.E., M.C.D.B.A., A+ Senior Technical Communicator Web Standards Accessibility Designer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kit Grose Sent: Tuesday, 09 October, 2007 8:10 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Load Javascript early or on-demand? G'day all, I've had some internal debate about this topic, so I thought I'd put it to the list: Imagine a large (300 dynamic pages+) site with a real client focus on speed. An average user is expected to visit around 5% of the site per visit (~15 pages), and the user is expected to visit with an unprimed cache around 75% of the time. One very popular page of the site expects to get hits from more than half of all visitors, and uses all kinds of (unobtrusive) Javascript goodies, requiring Script.aculo.us (and therefore Prototype). The page is the only page on the entire site that uses either library. The server is quite slow, so HTTP requests are at a premium. So the question I ask is this: do you 1. load the libraries as part of the global header on every page so that visitors to the swishy page aren't waiting an exorbitant time to view all the Javascript goodies while waiting for two entire JS libraries (and the actual behaviour for the page) to download, but extending the initial load time of the site, or 2. load the libraries on the page in question only, slowing the intra- site navigation, but not penalising users who never intend to visit that particular page of the site. In essence, is it more important to optimise the initial load time, or load-time per subsequent page? Cheers, Kit Grose Frontend Developer iQmultimedia [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Load Javascript early or on-demand?
Hi Frank, addLoadEvent is one of my essential includes on every project! I've made my own minor modifications, but it's a great piece of code. Cheers, Kit *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: [WSG] Load Javascript early or on-demand?
Hi Karl, For the site in question, I ended up deciding to load the JS (minified, of course) on just the page it is required on, but I was never really happy with the performance (since a page that was designed to be flashy and impressive ends up being delayed by the download of libraries). I always sort of wondered whether a user expects to wait at the initial load and never after that point, or whether, like a developer, they expect each page to have an individual load requirement. In the era of site-wide CSS, most other pages load almost instantly (even on the slow server), so (maybe just to me) it's a really obvious discrepancy for that page only. YSLOW is actually what led me to thinking about the HTTP requests involved on that page, and how they affect the user. I've been a big fan of that plugin since it was released. I had never heard of Protoculous! Thanks for that! I've been using PHP minify (http://code.google.com/p/minify/) lately which doesn't like script.aculo.us too much, but does a good job of integrating all JS and CSS into a single HTTP request. Thanks for your input! Kit *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
Thank you for your email, however I am out of the office until Friday, 12 October. If you have an urgent matter, please email [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] or contact Richard Ko on 02 62036262. Regards, Tonina Staunton Team Leader, Web Management Australian Federal Police Phone: 02 6203 6623 (Internal: 156623) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: www.afp.gov.au ** WARNING This email message and any attached files may contain information that is confidential and subject of legal privilege intended only for use by the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient be advised that you have received this message in error and that any use, copying, circulation, forwarding, printing or publication of this message or attached files is strictly forbidden, as is the disclosure of the information contained therein. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your InBox. AFP Web site: http://www.afp.gov.au ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] London Meetup for people interested in an informal discussion around web standards
For the Attention of those of you in London, UK. WS Meetup London Group I hope this isn't an infringement of the mailing list. Apologies if I got it wrong. Sorry for the short notice but there has been a bit of an internal debate on the merits of letting you all know about this. For those of you who are not aware, there is a site called Meetup dot com that allows people to create a regular group meeting among people who wish to meet and discuss a topic. anything from books, television programs, games, etc. whatever your interests it helps you find others then start a group. For the past year or so there have been over 100 people who expressed an interest in joining a Web Standards Meetup Group and I managed to get a few dozen interested in joining these past weeks. There will be an inagural meeting of the Web Standards London Meetup Group TONIGHT for anyone interested in discussing issues around implementing Web Standards. This is in no way connected to WASP or Web Standards Group dot org and arose from my experiences in various meetups around London. The aim of this meetup is to have informal discussions or very short presentations (15 mins max) in a pub or coffee-house and to open the floor to informal discussions, support, sharing and commiserate. If possible I would very much like to help promote the WSG London branch through this. They don't seem to be posting their events on the webstandardsgroup.org site since July 2006, even though you get to join the London branch by joining WSG.org. Please visit: http://webstandards.meetup.com/130/ if you are interested in joining this group, which, as some have mentioned in the discussion, is not designed to supplant but instead to compliment the existing WSG.org. London group. http://webstandards.meetup.com/130/ == Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] source order
Hi there; I'm currently laying down the markup for a site and have been pondering whether to put page content above navigation in the source. I often read that this is a good idea, and that makes perfect sense to me as long as there are skip links so that people can reach the navigation easily, but I recently read an article at usability.com.au that would seem to indicate that few users of screen readers expect this to be the case. Is there a prevailing wisdom in this matter? Content first? Or navigation first? Cheers; -- Rick Lecoat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] source order
Rick Lecoat wrote: Hi there; I'm currently laying down the markup for a site and have been pondering whether to put page content above navigation in the source. I often read that this is a good idea, and that makes perfect sense to me as long as there are skip links so that people can reach the navigation easily, but I recently read an article at usability.com.au that would seem to indicate that few users of screen readers expect this to be the case. Is there a prevailing wisdom in this matter? Content first? Or navigation first? I think the article http://usability.com.au/resources/source-order.cfm *is* the prevailing wisdom in this matter :) To quote from the summary: This paper proposes that when it comes to accessibility, the quality of the actual code on a web page is much more important than the ordering of the page content. Meaningful and appropriately marked up headings, descriptive link text and the clear identification of different levels of navigation, allow screen reader users to most effectively use their technologies when visiting a website. Mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] source order
I think that on the first place must be content, and only after that - navigation. Sorry for the poor English 2007/10/10, Rick Lecoat [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi there; I'm currently laying down the markup for a site and have been pondering whether to put page content above navigation in the source. I often read that this is a good idea, and that makes perfect sense to me as long as there are skip links so that people can reach the navigation easily, but I recently read an article at usability.com.au that would seem to indicate that few users of screen readers expect this to be the case. Is there a prevailing wisdom in this matter? Content first? Or navigation first? Cheers; -- Rick Lecoat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] source order
The only research on this was on a tiny number of screen reader users (18 as I recall) and they had a very slight bias towards haing the navigation first. However, there were differences between people of differing ability. Experienced users tended to just deal with whatever was thrown at them, whereas less-experienced users had a strong preference for having the navigation first because that's what they were used to. We have not explicitly tested this, but such a site came up during one of our public JAWS demonstrations. The screen reader user (who is highly proficient) didn't like it at all. It took him a while to figure out what was going on, and it was a struggle even after he did. A lot of people spout opinions on this, but it is all conjecture, and most of the people making assertions in favour of having content first have no experience of user testing. People expect sites to behave the way they always have done, so before we go changing the source order I would want to see a credible study and a significant bias in favour of change. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Lecoat Sent: 09 October 2007 22:15 To: Web Standards Group Subject: [WSG] source order Hi there; I'm currently laying down the markup for a site and have been pondering whether to put page content above navigation in the source. I often read that this is a good idea, and that makes perfect sense to me as long as there are skip links so that people can reach the navigation easily, but I recently read an article at usability.com.au that would seem to indicate that few users of screen readers expect this to be the case. Is there a prevailing wisdom in this matter? Content first? Or navigation first? Cheers; -- Rick Lecoat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] source order
Rick Lecoat wrote: Is there a prevailing wisdom in this matter? Content first? Or navigation first? Point 4 in this article... http://www.afb.org/Section.asp?SectionID=57TopicID=167DocumentID=2757 ...seems to indicate content first as best, with the navigation first with skip link to content as the second best option. regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] source order
Is there a prevailing wisdom in this matter? Content first? Or navigation first? You're probably referring to this: It is our view, that a continuation of the practice of placing navigation before the content of the page will benefit some screen reader users, in particular those users who are still developing their skills with the technology. http://usability.com.au/resources/source-order.cfm Bruce Lawson suggests otherwise: Personally, I use the visual layout of nav on the left, but at the bottom of the source. With a huge nav like a blog generally has, I think Google likes my content better if it¹s at the top of the source, and it¹s better for screenreader users not to tab through endless nav. http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/index.php/2007/navigation-or-content-first/ Vision Australia suggests that source order should reflect the visual order of the page where possible. So, if you had as header across the top of the page, then three columns beside each other (such as navigation, content, extra information), the source order should follow the same order. This would mean (header followed by navigation, content and finally, extras). Like many areas of accessibility, there are grey areas and differences of opinion. :) However, most people would agree that: 1. consistency across the site is the most important thing (changing the source order on different pages could cause a great deal of confusion). 2. if navigation comes before content, skip links are valuable for certain types of users. But for less experienced screen reader users, it seems clear that many are likely to find skip links a useful device for moving directly to specific sections of the page. An endless debate. And this is before opening up the other aspect of the debate... How source order affects Google rank :) Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] source order
Another thought. Are you planning to position the navigation at the top of the page even though it is at the end of the source? If so, I would say unequivocally that is the wrong thing to do. This will adversely affect anyone who uses keyboard navigation, because the tab sequence will not be anything like they expect. Or do you also plan to mess with the tabindex? And quite what sighted screen reader users will make of it is anyone's guess. Why change what is not broken? I don't hear any users saying they want content first. Where is the proof that making such a substantial change will benefit anyone? All we have is an assertion from a tiny number of tests suggesting that it shouldn't have an adverse effect on most people. But we run the risk that this test on a statistically insignificant number of people may actually be wrong, and that we will make it worse for a lot of people. But hey, it's cool to do things differently, and that's obviously more important that doing what's best for users. The first law of usability is hereby revoked. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Lecoat Sent: 09 October 2007 22:15 To: Web Standards Group Subject: [WSG] source order Hi there; I'm currently laying down the markup for a site and have been pondering whether to put page content above navigation in the source. I often read that this is a good idea, and that makes perfect sense to me as long as there are skip links so that people can reach the navigation easily, but I recently read an article at usability.com.au that would seem to indicate that few users of screen readers expect this to be the case. Is there a prevailing wisdom in this matter? Content first? Or navigation first? Cheers; -- Rick Lecoat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] source order
russ - maxdesign wrote: 2. if navigation comes before content, skip links are valuable for certain types of users. And if you have content first, would you have a skip to navigation link before it? :) P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ Take it to the streets ... join the WaSP Street Team http://streetteam.webstandards.org/ __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] source order
Mike Brown wrote: I think the article http://usability.com.au/resources/source-order.cfm *is* the prevailing wisdom in this matter :) Which is to say, some testing with a very specific design was used (with very little content or navigation), and that's all we have to go on so far. Steve Green wrote: A lot of people spout opinions on this, but it is all conjecture, and most of the people making assertions in favour of having content first have no experience of user testing I have experience with testing, and tend to put content first. Unfortunately it's not so simple, there are several related issues, depending on the design, and mostly affecting those using non-visual access: 1. What the user is used to (learning effect). 2. What is most effective, without the learning effect. 3. How easy it is to work out what the site does. Long term, 2 should take precedence, and 3 should help people get over 1. Otherwise we'd still be using tables for layout and asterisks for null alts. People expect sites to behave the way they always have done ... Why change what is not broken? I don't hear any users saying they want content first. Kind of like Neilsen's people always use other sites more than yours, although it's not the sort of thing that users think of or complain about explicitly. The problem is that things could not improve if that is *always* followed, and for many sites, content first makes more logical sense for linear access. (Screen reader, small screen, text browser etc.) With the (major) caveat that good headings and skip links will make more difference than the source order, content first makes more sense if you assume that people go to a site for content. It's the equivalent to the visual aspects of good navigation - it doesn't get in the way. The bottom line is that in testing, people tend to learn a site and so long as it's consistent and (concisely) sign-posted, people will get around. Almost all of our sites templates have content first, and that's worked. The ones that have navigation at the top have a horizontal navigation that needs to push the content down when text is expanded, and I guess we'll have to wait until the CSS3 layout module before it's worth experimenting with source order for that type of design :-/ -Alastair *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] source order
An endless debate. And this is before opening up the other aspect of the debate... How source order affects Google rank :) also .. what about users of small-screen devices like mobile phones where lots of scrolling quickly becomes a pain? then to make matter worse there is the issue of widely varying (sometimes limited or none at all) support for css on different mobile devices... *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] source order
Put the 'main' 4-5 menu links up the top and then content with the extra navigation (sidebar of blogs etc) afterwards or even not include it in the mobile css [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/10/2007 10:24:30 am An endless debate. And this is before opening up the other aspect of the debate... How source order affects Google rank :) also .. what about users of small-screen devices like mobile phones where lots of scrolling quickly becomes a pain? then to make matter worse there is the issue of widely varying (sometimes limited or none at all) support for css on different mobile devices... *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security requirements for inbound transmission. ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Story Boards
Hi. doing a project for my website development course. now, part of the requirements says that i need to create a story board to represent what content is to be displayed on each page. Now sighted students, would draw navigation and story board diagrams. now, had to do this in word tables and tried html. but my lecturer is still not happy with what i have come up with. now, just wondering, is there any software, that might be able to represent the story boards for the four websites that i am developing for this semester. any tips, tricks, or any other similar experiences. let me know, if anyone been in the same position. unfortunately the guy who did start to develop an accessible text to speech drawing software, got his phd, and did not complete the project and still in limbo. he got to the third user tests, and then nicked off. he did this at Burkely University in Callifornia and the product was to be called Intercommunication Draw 2. okay, can you help out or give suggestions or how to resolve these problems? cheers Marvin. _ What are you waiting for? Join Lavalife FREE http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26locale%3Den%5FAU%26a%3D30288_t=764581033_r=email_taglines_Join_free_OCT07_m=EXT *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Story Boards
What about Visio, I'm just thinking that you're already using Microsoft products that this may be something you could use. I know of people who use Visio a lot for wireframes and mock-ups. I suppose it depends on what details your lecturer is wanting in your story board's. the only setback I can think of is that Visio has a lot of application for other purposes such as relational database design, flowcharts. does anyone know if this may help Marvin William Donovan marvin hunkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. doing a project for my website development course. now, part of the requirements says that i need to create a story board to represent what content is to be displayed on each page. Now sighted students, would draw navigation and story board diagrams. now, had to do this in word tables and tried html. but my lecturer is still not happy with what i have come up with. now, just wondering, is there any software, that might be able to represent the story boards for the four websites that i am developing for this semester. any tips, tricks, or any other similar experiences. let me know, if anyone been in the same position. unfortunately the guy who did start to develop an accessible text to speech drawing software, got his phd, and did not complete the project and still in limbo. he got to the third user tests, and then nicked off. he did this at Burkely University in Callifornia and the product was to be called Intercommunication Draw 2. okay, can you help out or give suggestions or how to resolve these problems? cheers Marvin. _ What are you waiting for? Join Lavalife FREE http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom %2Eau%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26loc ale%3Den%5FAU%26a%3D30288_t=764581033_r=email_taglines_Join_free_OCT07 _m=EXT *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Story Boards
On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 01:46:58 pm marvin hunkin wrote: Hi. doing a project for my website development course. now, part of the requirements says that i need to create a story board to represent what content is to be displayed on each page. Now sighted students, would draw navigation and story board diagrams. now, had to do this in word tables and tried html. but my lecturer is still not happy with what i have come up with. now, just wondering, is there any software, that might be able to represent the story boards for the four websites that i am developing for this semester. any tips, tricks, or any other similar experiences. let me know, if anyone been in the same position. unfortunately the guy who did start to develop an accessible text to speech drawing software, got his phd, and did not complete the project and still in limbo. he got to the third user tests, and then nicked off. he did this at Burkely University in Callifornia and the product was to be called Intercommunication Draw 2. okay, can you help out or give suggestions or how to resolve these problems? cheers Marvin. Hi Marvin, I recommend starting with a liquid layout like either of Thierry Koblentz's CSS Layout 6 at http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/liquid/6.asp or CSS Layout 8 at http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/liquid/8.asp. These block layouts can be printed to display the layout. You should then be able to describe the size, colours, content and content position of each block as the text on the story boards. This description is what makes a storyboard effective, not the story board sketch. Try creating story boards for each section of the layout: * Header *Menu *Content *Subsection *Footer There would be a number of story boards for the content, and maybe the subsection, but you should only need a single story board for the other sections. Hope this helps! -- Regards, Steve Bathurst Computer Solutions URL: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: 0407 224 251 _ ... (0) ... / / \ .. / / . ) .. V_/_ Linux Powered! Registered Linux User #355382 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Story Boards
Hi Marvin, In April of this year I came across an add-in template for Microsoft Visio, enabling a user to produce wire-frames and more within the Visio work environment. Here is the address to the web page and small downloadable package: http://www.guuui.com/issues/02_07.php Maybe this will help get the job done? Kind regards, Frank From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of marvin hunkin Sent: Wednesday, 10 October, 2007 5:47 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Story Boards Hi. doing a project for my website development course. now, part of the requirements says that i need to create a story board to represent what content is to be displayed on each page. Now sighted students, would draw navigation and story board diagrams. now, had to do this in word tables and tried html. but my lecturer is still not happy with what i have come up with. now, just wondering, is there any software, that might be able to represent the story boards for the four websites that i am developing for this semester. any tips, tricks, or any other similar experiences. let me know, if anyone been in the same position. unfortunately the guy who did start to develop an accessible text to speech drawing software, got his phd, and did not complete the project and still in limbo. he got to the third user tests, and then nicked off. he did this at Burkely University in Callifornia and the product was to be called Intercommunication Draw 2. okay, can you help out or give suggestions or how to resolve these problems? cheers Marvin. Join Lavalife for free. What are you waiting for? http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2E au%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26locale%3De n%5FAU%26a%3D30288_t=764581033_r=email_taglines_Join_free_OCT07_m=EXT *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Story Boards
Hi Marvin You could try Axure (www.axure.com). I'm not too sure how accessible it is, but there is a trial version available and it has lots of drag drop functionality which could be helpful if it works with any accessibility tools you are using. Good luck with it. Cheers Denise On 10/10/07, William Donovan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about Visio, I'm just thinking that you're already using Microsoft products that this may be something you could use. I know of people who use Visio a lot for wireframes and mock-ups. I suppose it depends on what details your lecturer is wanting in your story board's. the only setback I can think of is that Visio has a lot of application for other purposes such as relational database design, flowcharts. does anyone know if this may help Marvin William Donovan marvin hunkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. doing a project for my website development course. now, part of the requirements says that i need to create a story board to represent what content is to be displayed on each page. Now sighted students, would draw navigation and story board diagrams. now, had to do this in word tables and tried html. but my lecturer is still not happy with what i have come up with. now, just wondering, is there any software, that might be able to represent the story boards for the four websites that i am developing for this semester. any tips, tricks, or any other similar experiences. let me know, if anyone been in the same position. unfortunately the guy who did start to develop an accessible text to speech drawing software, got his phd, and did not complete the project and still in limbo. he got to the third user tests, and then nicked off. he did this at Burkely University in Callifornia and the product was to be called Intercommunication Draw 2. okay, can you help out or give suggestions or how to resolve these problems? cheers Marvin. _ What are you waiting for? Join Lavalife FREE http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom %2Eau%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26loc ale%3Den%5FAU%26a%3D30288_t=764581033_r=email_taglines_Join_free_OCT07 _m=EXT *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
