[WSG] Load Javascript early or on-demand?

2007-10-09 Thread Kit Grose

G'day all,

I've had some internal debate about this topic, so I thought I'd put  
it to the list:


Imagine a large (300 dynamic pages+) site with a real client focus on  
speed. An average user is expected to visit around 5% of the site per  
visit (~15 pages), and the user is expected to visit with an unprimed  
cache around 75% of the time.


One very popular page of the site expects to get hits from more than  
half of all visitors, and uses all kinds of (unobtrusive) Javascript  
goodies, requiring Script.aculo.us (and therefore Prototype). The  
page is the only page on the entire site that uses either library.


The server is quite slow, so HTTP requests are at a premium.

So the question I ask is this: do you
1. load the libraries as part of the global header on every page so  
that visitors to the swishy page aren't waiting an exorbitant time to  
view all the Javascript goodies while waiting for two entire JS  
libraries (and the actual behaviour for the page) to download, but  
extending the initial load time of the site, or
2. load the libraries on the page in question only, slowing the intra- 
site navigation, but not penalising users who never intend to visit  
that particular page of the site.


In essence, is it more important to optimise the initial load time,  
or load-time per subsequent page?



Cheers,

Kit Grose
Frontend Developer
iQmultimedia
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [WSG] Load Javascript early or on-demand?

2007-10-09 Thread Karl Lurman
Kit,

Seems like you answered your own question there.

The only added benefit of putting the script in the header of every
page, is that for the first time the script is downloaded, every
subsequent page load will not require the same download again, even
your Javascript reliant page.

If you are talking about only half of your site visitors viewing this
Javascript page FIRST, It seems foolish to make the other half suffer.
Also, this other half will be bogging down your server for the said
script files.

I would seriously suggest you consider the usual methods of improving
performance. Consider looking at YSLOW, a popular extension to Firebug
that Yahoo have developed that outlines some of these methods. Yahoo
cares about every byte that goes out of their servers.

One thing that I would really recommend straight off the bat is
obtaining a minified version of Prototype and Scriptaculous
(Protoculous I think its called). This will reduce the number of
requests to some rather large files. Also, if you are only including
the effects.js aspects of Scriptaculous, do not include
scriptaculous.js by itself. Finally, make sure your server can Gzip on
the wire as this will reduce your bandwidth usage and reduce page load
times substantially (but may hammer your webserver a bit).

Karl

On 10/9/07, Kit Grose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 G'day all,

 I've had some internal debate about this topic, so I thought I'd put
 it to the list:

 Imagine a large (300 dynamic pages+) site with a real client focus on
 speed. An average user is expected to visit around 5% of the site per
 visit (~15 pages), and the user is expected to visit with an unprimed
 cache around 75% of the time.

 One very popular page of the site expects to get hits from more than
 half of all visitors, and uses all kinds of (unobtrusive) Javascript
 goodies, requiring Script.aculo.us (and therefore Prototype). The
 page is the only page on the entire site that uses either library.

 The server is quite slow, so HTTP requests are at a premium.

 So the question I ask is this: do you
 1. load the libraries as part of the global header on every page so
 that visitors to the swishy page aren't waiting an exorbitant time to
 view all the Javascript goodies while waiting for two entire JS
 libraries (and the actual behaviour for the page) to download, but
 extending the initial load time of the site, or
 2. load the libraries on the page in question only, slowing the intra-
 site navigation, but not penalising users who never intend to visit
 that particular page of the site.

 In essence, is it more important to optimise the initial load time,
 or load-time per subsequent page?


 Cheers,

 Kit Grose
 Frontend Developer
 iQmultimedia
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: [WSG] Load Javascript early or on-demand?

2007-10-09 Thread Frank Palinkas
Hi Kit,

Don't know if this will help, but Simon Willison created an
addLoadEvent(func) to get multiple scripts loading correctly on a page.

Please see his blog: 

http://simonwillison.net/2004/May/26/addLoadEvent/

Kind regards,

Frank M. Palinkas
Microsoft M.V.P. - Windows Help
W3C HTML Working Group (H.T.M.L.W.G.) - Invited Expert
M.C.P., M.C.T., M.C.S.E., M.C.D.B.A., A+   
Senior Technical Communicator 
Web Standards  Accessibility Designer 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kit Grose
Sent: Tuesday, 09 October, 2007 8:10 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Load Javascript early or on-demand?

G'day all,

I've had some internal debate about this topic, so I thought I'd put  
it to the list:

Imagine a large (300 dynamic pages+) site with a real client focus on  
speed. An average user is expected to visit around 5% of the site per  
visit (~15 pages), and the user is expected to visit with an unprimed  
cache around 75% of the time.

One very popular page of the site expects to get hits from more than  
half of all visitors, and uses all kinds of (unobtrusive) Javascript  
goodies, requiring Script.aculo.us (and therefore Prototype). The  
page is the only page on the entire site that uses either library.

The server is quite slow, so HTTP requests are at a premium.

So the question I ask is this: do you
1. load the libraries as part of the global header on every page so  
that visitors to the swishy page aren't waiting an exorbitant time to  
view all the Javascript goodies while waiting for two entire JS  
libraries (and the actual behaviour for the page) to download, but  
extending the initial load time of the site, or
2. load the libraries on the page in question only, slowing the intra- 
site navigation, but not penalising users who never intend to visit  
that particular page of the site.

In essence, is it more important to optimise the initial load time,  
or load-time per subsequent page?


Cheers,

Kit Grose
Frontend Developer
iQmultimedia
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [WSG] Load Javascript early or on-demand?

2007-10-09 Thread Kit Grose

Hi Frank,

addLoadEvent is one of my essential includes on every project! I've  
made my own minor modifications, but it's a great piece of code.


Cheers,

Kit

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Re: [WSG] Load Javascript early or on-demand?

2007-10-09 Thread Kit Grose

Hi Karl,

For the site in question, I ended up deciding to load the JS  
(minified, of course) on just the page it is required on, but I was  
never really happy with the performance (since a page that was  
designed to be flashy and impressive ends up being delayed by the  
download of libraries). I always sort of wondered whether a user  
expects to wait at the initial load and never after that point, or  
whether, like a developer, they expect each page to have an  
individual load requirement. In the era of site-wide CSS, most other  
pages load almost instantly (even on the slow server), so (maybe just  
to me) it's a really obvious discrepancy for that page only.


YSLOW is actually what led me to thinking about the HTTP requests  
involved on that page, and how they affect the user. I've been a big  
fan of that plugin since it was released.


I had never heard of Protoculous! Thanks for that! I've been using  
PHP minify (http://code.google.com/p/minify/) lately which doesn't  
like script.aculo.us too much, but does a good job of integrating all  
JS and CSS into a single HTTP request.


Thanks for your input!

Kit

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[WSG] London Meetup for people interested in an informal discussion around web standards

2007-10-09 Thread Joseph Ortenzi

For the Attention of those of you in London, UK.

WS Meetup London Group

I hope this isn't an infringement of the mailing list. Apologies if I  
got it wrong. Sorry for the short notice but there has been a bit of  
an internal debate on the merits of letting you all know about this.


For those of you who are not aware, there is a site called Meetup dot  
com that allows people to create a regular group meeting among people  
who wish to meet and discuss a topic. anything from books, television  
programs, games, etc. whatever your interests it helps you find  
others then start a group. For the past year or so there have been  
over 100 people who expressed an interest in joining a Web Standards  
Meetup Group and I managed to get a few dozen interested in joining  
these past weeks.


There will be an inagural meeting of the Web Standards London Meetup  
Group TONIGHT for anyone interested in discussing issues around  
implementing Web Standards.
This is in no way connected to WASP or Web Standards Group dot org  
and arose from my experiences in various meetups around London.


The aim of this meetup is to have informal discussions or very short  
presentations (15 mins max) in a pub or coffee-house and to open the  
floor to informal discussions, support, sharing and commiserate. If  
possible I would very much like to help promote the WSG London branch  
through this. They don't seem to be posting their events on the  
webstandardsgroup.org site since July 2006, even though you get to  
join the London branch by joining WSG.org.


Please visit: http://webstandards.meetup.com/130/ if you are  
interested in joining this group, which, as some have mentioned in  
the discussion, is not designed to supplant but instead to compliment  
the existing WSG.org. London group.


http://webstandards.meetup.com/130/

==
Joe Ortenzi
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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[WSG] source order

2007-10-09 Thread Rick Lecoat
Hi there;

I'm currently laying down the markup for a site and have been pondering
whether to put page content above navigation in the source. I often read
that this is a good idea, and that makes perfect sense to me as long as
there are skip links so that people can reach the navigation easily, but
I recently read an article at usability.com.au that would seem to
indicate that few users of screen readers expect this to be the case.

Is there a prevailing wisdom in this matter?
Content first? Or navigation first?

Cheers;
-- 
Rick Lecoat



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Re: [WSG] source order

2007-10-09 Thread Mike Brown

Rick Lecoat wrote:

Hi there;

I'm currently laying down the markup for a site and have been pondering
whether to put page content above navigation in the source. I often read
that this is a good idea, and that makes perfect sense to me as long as
there are skip links so that people can reach the navigation easily, but
I recently read an article at usability.com.au that would seem to
indicate that few users of screen readers expect this to be the case.

Is there a prevailing wisdom in this matter?
Content first? Or navigation first?


I think the article http://usability.com.au/resources/source-order.cfm 
*is* the prevailing wisdom in this matter :)


To quote from the summary:
This paper proposes that when it comes to accessibility, the quality of 
the actual code on a web page is much more important than the ordering 
of the page content. Meaningful and appropriately marked up headings, 
descriptive link text and the clear identification of different levels 
of navigation, allow screen reader users to most effectively use their 
technologies when visiting a website.


Mike


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Re: [WSG] source order

2007-10-09 Thread Sirgey Bereznik
I think that on the first place must be content, and only after that -
navigation.

Sorry for the poor English

2007/10/10, Rick Lecoat [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Hi there;

 I'm currently laying down the markup for a site and have been pondering
 whether to put page content above navigation in the source. I often read
 that this is a good idea, and that makes perfect sense to me as long as
 there are skip links so that people can reach the navigation easily, but
 I recently read an article at usability.com.au that would seem to
 indicate that few users of screen readers expect this to be the case.

 Is there a prevailing wisdom in this matter?
 Content first? Or navigation first?

 Cheers;
 --
 Rick Lecoat



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RE: [WSG] source order

2007-10-09 Thread Steve Green
The only research on this was on a tiny number of screen reader users (18 as
I recall) and they had a very slight bias towards haing the navigation
first. However, there were differences between people of differing ability.
Experienced users tended to just deal with whatever was thrown at them,
whereas less-experienced users had a strong preference for having the
navigation first because that's what they were used to.

We have not explicitly tested this, but such a site came up during one of
our public JAWS demonstrations. The screen reader user (who is highly
proficient) didn't like it at all. It took him a while to figure out what
was going on, and it was a struggle even after he did.

A lot of people spout opinions on this, but it is all conjecture, and most
of the people making assertions in favour of having content first have no
experience of user testing. People expect sites to behave the way they
always have done, so before we go changing the source order I would want to
see a credible study and a significant bias in favour of change.

Steve

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rick Lecoat
Sent: 09 October 2007 22:15
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: [WSG] source order

Hi there;

I'm currently laying down the markup for a site and have been pondering
whether to put page content above navigation in the source. I often read
that this is a good idea, and that makes perfect sense to me as long as
there are skip links so that people can reach the navigation easily, but I
recently read an article at usability.com.au that would seem to indicate
that few users of screen readers expect this to be the case.

Is there a prevailing wisdom in this matter?
Content first? Or navigation first?

Cheers;
--
Rick Lecoat



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Re: [WSG] source order

2007-10-09 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun

Rick Lecoat wrote:


Is there a prevailing wisdom in this matter? Content first? Or
navigation first?


Point 4 in this article...
http://www.afb.org/Section.asp?SectionID=57TopicID=167DocumentID=2757
...seems to indicate content first as best, with the navigation first
with skip link to content as the second best option.

regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no


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Re: [WSG] source order

2007-10-09 Thread russ - maxdesign
 Is there a prevailing wisdom in this matter?
 Content first? Or navigation first?
 

You're probably referring to this:
It is our view, that a continuation of the practice of placing navigation
before the content of the page will benefit some screen reader users, in
particular those users who are still developing their skills with the
technology.
http://usability.com.au/resources/source-order.cfm

Bruce Lawson suggests otherwise:
Personally, I use the visual layout of nav on the left, but at the bottom
of the source. With a huge nav like a blog generally has, I think Google
likes my content better if it¹s at the top of the source, and it¹s better
for screenreader users not to tab through endless nav.
http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/index.php/2007/navigation-or-content-first/

Vision Australia suggests that source order should reflect the visual order
of the page where possible. So, if you had as header across the top of the
page, then three columns beside each other (such as navigation, content,
extra information), the source order should follow the same order. This
would mean (header followed by navigation, content and finally, extras).

Like many areas of accessibility, there are grey areas and differences of
opinion. :)

However, most people would agree that:

1. consistency across the site is the most important thing (changing the
source order on different pages could cause a great deal of confusion).

2. if navigation comes before content, skip links are valuable for certain
types of users.
But for less experienced screen reader users, it seems clear that many are
likely to find skip links a useful device for moving directly to specific
sections of the page.

An endless debate. And this is before opening up the other aspect of the
debate... How source order affects Google rank  :)

Thanks
Russ




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RE: [WSG] source order

2007-10-09 Thread Steve Green
Another thought. Are you planning to position the navigation at the top of
the page even though it is at the end of the source? If so, I would say
unequivocally that is the wrong thing to do.

This will adversely affect anyone who uses keyboard navigation, because the
tab sequence will not be anything like they expect. Or do you also plan to
mess with the tabindex? And quite what sighted screen reader users will make
of it is anyone's guess.

Why change what is not broken? I don't hear any users saying they want
content first. Where is the proof that making such a substantial change will
benefit anyone? All we have is an assertion from a tiny number of tests
suggesting that it shouldn't have an adverse effect on most people. But we
run the risk that this test on a statistically insignificant number of
people may actually be wrong, and that we will make it worse for a lot of
people.

But hey, it's cool to do things differently, and that's obviously more
important that doing what's best for users. The first law of usability is
hereby revoked.

Steve

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rick Lecoat
Sent: 09 October 2007 22:15
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: [WSG] source order

Hi there;

I'm currently laying down the markup for a site and have been pondering
whether to put page content above navigation in the source. I often read
that this is a good idea, and that makes perfect sense to me as long as
there are skip links so that people can reach the navigation easily, but I
recently read an article at usability.com.au that would seem to indicate
that few users of screen readers expect this to be the case.

Is there a prevailing wisdom in this matter?
Content first? Or navigation first?

Cheers;
--
Rick Lecoat



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Re: [WSG] source order

2007-10-09 Thread Patrick H. Lauke

russ - maxdesign wrote:


2. if navigation comes before content, skip links are valuable for certain
types of users.


And if you have content first, would you have a skip to navigation 
link before it? :)


P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
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[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
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__
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http://webstandards.org/
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Re: [WSG] source order

2007-10-09 Thread Alastair Campbell
Mike Brown wrote:   
 I think the article http://usability.com.au/resources/source-order.cfm
 *is* the prevailing wisdom in this matter :)

Which is to say, some testing with a very specific design was used
(with very little content or navigation), and that's all we have to go
on so far.

Steve Green wrote:
 A lot of people spout opinions on this, but it is all conjecture,
 and most of the people making assertions in favour of having
 content first have no experience of user testing

I have experience with testing, and tend to put content first.
Unfortunately it's not so simple, there are several related issues,
depending on the design, and mostly affecting those using non-visual
access:
1. What the user is used to (learning effect).
2. What is most effective, without the learning effect.
3. How easy it is to work out what the site does.

Long term, 2 should take precedence, and 3 should help people get over
1. Otherwise we'd still be using tables for layout and asterisks for
null alts.

 People expect sites to behave the way they always have done
...
 Why change what is not broken? I don't hear any users saying they
 want content first.

Kind of like Neilsen's people always use other sites more than
yours, although it's not the sort of thing that users think of or
complain about explicitly.
The problem is that things could not improve if that is *always*
followed, and for many sites, content first makes more logical sense
for linear access. (Screen reader, small screen, text browser etc.)

With the (major) caveat that good headings and skip links will make
more difference than the source order, content first makes more sense
if you assume that people go to a site for content.  It's the
equivalent to the visual aspects of good navigation - it doesn't get
in the way.

The bottom line is that in testing, people tend to learn a site and so
long as it's consistent and (concisely) sign-posted, people will get
around. Almost all of our sites  templates have content first, and
that's worked.

The ones that have navigation at the top have a horizontal navigation
that needs to push the content down when text is expanded, and I guess
we'll have to wait until the CSS3 layout module before it's worth
experimenting with source order for that type of design :-/

-Alastair


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Re: [WSG] source order

2007-10-09 Thread Michael MD


An endless debate. And this is before opening up the other aspect of the
debate... How source order affects Google rank  :)



also .. what about users of small-screen devices like mobile phones where 
lots of scrolling quickly becomes a pain?
then to make matter worse there is the issue of widely varying (sometimes 
limited or none at all) support for css on different mobile devices...






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Re: [WSG] source order

2007-10-09 Thread Jermayn Parker
Put the 'main' 4-5 menu links up the top and then content with the extra
navigation (sidebar of blogs etc) afterwards or even not include it in
the mobile css


 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/10/2007 10:24:30 am 

 An endless debate. And this is before opening up the other aspect of
the
 debate... How source order affects Google rank  :)


also .. what about users of small-screen devices like mobile phones
where 
lots of scrolling quickly becomes a pain?
then to make matter worse there is the issue of widely varying
(sometimes 
limited or none at all) support for css on different mobile devices...





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[WSG] Story Boards

2007-10-09 Thread marvin hunkin
 
Hi.
doing a project for my website development course.
now, part of the requirements says that i need to create a story board to 
represent what content is to be displayed on each page.
Now sighted students, would draw navigation and story board diagrams.
now, had to do this in word tables and tried html.
but my lecturer is still not happy with what i have come up with.
now, just wondering, is there any software, that might be able to represent the 
story boards for the four websites that i am developing for this semester.
any tips, tricks, or any other similar experiences.
let me know, if anyone been in the same position.
unfortunately the guy who did start to develop an accessible text to speech 
drawing software, got his phd, and did not complete the project and still in 
limbo.
he got to the third user tests, and then nicked off.
he did this at Burkely University in Callifornia and the product was to be 
called Intercommunication Draw 2.
okay, can you help out or give suggestions or how to resolve these problems?
cheers Marvin. 
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Re: [WSG] Story Boards

2007-10-09 Thread William Donovan

What about Visio,

I'm just thinking that you're already using Microsoft products that this may be 
something you could use.

I know of people who use Visio a lot for wireframes and mock-ups. I suppose it 
depends on what details your lecturer is wanting in your story board's.

the only setback I can think of is that Visio has a lot of application for 
other purposes such as relational database design, flowcharts.

does anyone know if this may help Marvin

William Donovan



 marvin hunkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  
 Hi.
 doing a project for my website development course.
 now, part of the requirements says that i need to create a story board 
 to represent what content is to be displayed on each page.
 Now sighted students, would draw navigation and story board diagrams.
 now, had to do this in word tables and tried html.
 but my lecturer is still not happy with what i have come up with.
 now, just wondering, is there any software, that might be able to 
 represent the story boards for the four websites that i am developing 
 for this semester.
 any tips, tricks, or any other similar experiences.
 let me know, if anyone been in the same position.
 unfortunately the guy who did start to develop an accessible text to 
 speech drawing software, got his phd, and did not complete the project 
 and still in limbo.
 he got to the third user tests, and then nicked off.
 he did this at Burkely University in Callifornia and the product was to 
 be called Intercommunication Draw 2.
 okay, can you help out or give suggestions or how to resolve these 
 problems?
 cheers Marvin. 
 _
 What are you waiting for? Join Lavalife FREE
 http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom
 %2Eau%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26loc
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Re: [WSG] Story Boards

2007-10-09 Thread Steve Olive
On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 01:46:58 pm marvin hunkin wrote:
 Hi.
 doing a project for my website development course.
 now, part of the requirements says that i need to create a story board to
 represent what content is to be displayed on each page. Now sighted
 students, would draw navigation and story board diagrams. now, had to do
 this in word tables and tried html.
 but my lecturer is still not happy with what i have come up with.
 now, just wondering, is there any software, that might be able to represent
 the story boards for the four websites that i am developing for this
 semester. any tips, tricks, or any other similar experiences.
 let me know, if anyone been in the same position.
 unfortunately the guy who did start to develop an accessible text to speech
 drawing software, got his phd, and did not complete the project and still
 in limbo. he got to the third user tests, and then nicked off.
 he did this at Burkely University in Callifornia and the product was to be
 called Intercommunication Draw 2. okay, can you help out or give
 suggestions or how to resolve these problems? cheers Marvin.
Hi Marvin,

I recommend starting with a liquid layout like either of Thierry Koblentz's 
CSS Layout 6 at http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/liquid/6.asp or CSS Layout 
8 at http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/liquid/8.asp.

These block layouts can be printed to display the layout. You should then be 
able to describe the size, colours, content and content position of each 
block as the text on the story boards. This description is what makes a 
storyboard effective, not the story board sketch.

Try creating story boards for each section of the layout:

* Header
*Menu
*Content
*Subsection
*Footer

There would be a number of story boards for the content, and maybe the 
subsection, but you should only need a single story board for the other 
sections.

Hope this helps!

-- 
Regards,

Steve
Bathurst Computer Solutions
URL: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mobile: 0407 224 251
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RE: [WSG] Story Boards

2007-10-09 Thread Frank Palinkas
Hi Marvin,

 

In April of this year I came across an add-in template for Microsoft Visio,
enabling a user to produce wire-frames and more within the Visio work
environment. Here is the address to the web page and small downloadable
package:

 

http://www.guuui.com/issues/02_07.php

 

Maybe this will help get the job done?

 

Kind regards,

Frank 

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of marvin hunkin
Sent: Wednesday, 10 October, 2007 5:47 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Story Boards

 

Hi.
doing a project for my website development course.
now, part of the requirements says that i need to create a story board to
represent what content is to be displayed on each page.
Now sighted students, would draw navigation and story board diagrams.
now, had to do this in word tables and tried html.
but my lecturer is still not happy with what i have come up with.
now, just wondering, is there any software, that might be able to represent
the story boards for the four websites that i am developing for this
semester.
any tips, tricks, or any other similar experiences.
let me know, if anyone been in the same position.
unfortunately the guy who did start to develop an accessible text to speech
drawing software, got his phd, and did not complete the project and still in
limbo.
he got to the third user tests, and then nicked off.
he did this at Burkely University in Callifornia and the product was to be
called Intercommunication Draw 2.
okay, can you help out or give suggestions or how to resolve these problems?
cheers Marvin. 



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Re: [WSG] Story Boards

2007-10-09 Thread Denise Belling
Hi Marvin

You could try Axure (www.axure.com). I'm not too sure how accessible it is,
but there is a trial version available and it has lots of drag  drop
functionality which could be helpful if it works with any accessibility
tools you are using.

Good luck with it.

Cheers
Denise


On 10/10/07, William Donovan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 What about Visio,

 I'm just thinking that you're already using Microsoft products that this
 may be something you could use.

 I know of people who use Visio a lot for wireframes and mock-ups. I
 suppose it depends on what details your lecturer is wanting in your story
 board's.

 the only setback I can think of is that Visio has a lot of application for
 other purposes such as relational database design, flowcharts.

 does anyone know if this may help Marvin

 William Donovan



  marvin hunkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
  Hi.
  doing a project for my website development course.
  now, part of the requirements says that i need to create a story board
  to represent what content is to be displayed on each page.
  Now sighted students, would draw navigation and story board diagrams.
  now, had to do this in word tables and tried html.
  but my lecturer is still not happy with what i have come up with.
  now, just wondering, is there any software, that might be able to
  represent the story boards for the four websites that i am developing
  for this semester.
  any tips, tricks, or any other similar experiences.
  let me know, if anyone been in the same position.
  unfortunately the guy who did start to develop an accessible text to
  speech drawing software, got his phd, and did not complete the project
  and still in limbo.
  he got to the third user tests, and then nicked off.
  he did this at Burkely University in Callifornia and the product was to
  be called Intercommunication Draw 2.
  okay, can you help out or give suggestions or how to resolve these
  problems?
  cheers Marvin.
  _
  What are you waiting for? Join Lavalife FREE
 
 http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom
 
 %2Eau%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26loc
 
 ale%3Den%5FAU%26a%3D30288_t=764581033_r=email_taglines_Join_free_OCT07
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